New (old) rule, and lesson (re)learned
Reminder to self - Never get LDs/VIP from the first girl who greets me at a club, especially if it's before I've barely sat down.So I walked into Flashers on evening recently, and a dancer sat down immediately with me, and inquired about dances. These are normally $10 nude floor dances with moderate mileage - somewhere between Follies high and Pink Pony low. I hesitated as I suspected she's a shark - high promise, low delivery, with the possibility of scamming. I didn't have much time on this visit, so I accepted against my better judgment by saying I'd enjoy a couple dances.
Big mistake - She started during the DJ patter which got my radar up, but when the next song started, she said this was the official song (one ray of light - at least she seemed sorta honest). But, the instant my fingers touched her back, she informed me any touching increases the price to $15 or $20/dance. She compared that to a mini-VIP. Like the horny, time-constrained dolt I was that night, I agreed to the $15 (and I was going to tip her anyway). However, once underway, she expertly blocked me except for superficial touches.
After what I thought was one song (who can tell with Rap crap?), I informed her I'm done and started to pay her $20 (a dance's worth, plus a bit for the DJ patter preview) to get rid of her. She went into instant defensive mode, saying, "Oh no - that was two dances, and I normally get $20/each for touching."... or some such shit.
This was a fuck-it moment, so I parted with an additional $10 (total $30) and said I'm done. So, lesson relearned and tuition paid. The only good thing was I recognized my next dancer, who's a generous sweetheart, and proceeded to get two tremendous $10 dances with her, plus tip. The first dancer, however, came around as my new dancer started and whispered something in her ear. I figured she warned her I was a touchy-feely dance miscounter, so I inquired and mentioned how she ripped me off. My new dancer confided that she instead told her I was basically a chump and to charge me $15 or $20/dance.
Wow - I was basically a chump with the first dancer, but it still underscores what I already knew - aggressive dancers in your lap the minute you walk in should be avoided. I also told my new dancer that while the first dancer stung me once, she'll never get another dance from me. Whereas for my new dancer, I've spent many hundreds on her over previous months, and am likely to continue doing so.
May I get an amen!?
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I personally wouldn't have parted with that $10 if I'm convinced it was one dance. If I went to a restaurant and bought a meal and the waiter came out with another bill saying I owe extra, then I'm definitely going to say something about that
Lolruned - Good point on the girls collaborating. I don't think the second dancer was working with the first dancer in any way, but can't be sure. I've had many dances with the second dancer. She's always been generous in her touch and style, and never miscounts. And actually, I've generally had good dancer experiences in the club. The ROB I had was an exception, although an example of my "first-approach" rule.
And to your point on paying the extra $10. I'm 90% sure it was one song. But with Rap songs, it's hard to tell sometimes. I've held my ground in times past when I could actually tell when a rock&roll or pop song ended, but there was just enough doubt in my mind, I let it go. Although now, based on what I heard the first dancer whisper to the second, I suspect she just fuckin' played me.
At least dancer number 2 was much better.
Some of them capitalize on that time where your eyes are still adjusting to the darkness of the club. I think your mind is still adjusting too - and you’ve not seen the other dancers - so that’s another reason the sharks need to pounce immediately.
The sharks make their money from the situation you were in. You rarely see a shark getting return business from customers. They don’t provide value - or an enjoyable experience.
They're trying to maximize their short-term revenue. Probably club hoppers as well
-->"My new dancer confided that she instead told her I was basically a chump and to charge me $15 or $20/dance."
-->"Reminder to self - Never get LDs/VIP from the first girl who greets me at a club, especially if it's before I've barely sat down."
So, I think the lesson here is a little different! I mean, yes, the Door Vultures are very often horrible ROBs who specialize in ripping off guys who haven't got their bearings yet. But, really, the big lesson here seems exactly the same to me as with the recent post about the guy who got ripped off and blackmailed by a girl on SA:
- It's easy for us to want to give in to an initial small, unreasonable demand/request, especially once we're slightly invested. That's almost always the mistake that kicks off all the others -- rather than buy us what we want, it signals to the girl that we're a spineless pushover who is begging to be relieved of his money.
- We also imagine that if we refuse that first request (the up-charge in your case, the $40-for-nothing in the SA case), the girl won't like us, or it will cause drama -- instead, the best thing you can do is refuse even that first small request. The girls otherwise lose whatever little respect that had for you in the first place, and it's their signal to move to phase 2 (overcounting the dances in your case, more sinister action in the SA case)
- Also, avoid the Door Vultures :)
None of this meant as a slam, of course, every single one of us has been taken advantage of by strippers at some point or other, and you made a pretty low-$ mistake! But man, SCing is easier once you refuse the first unreasonable request no matter how small
Another way to get around these situations is to not get dances until your drinks are finished.
I've had a few try and lure me into conversation with insults or a less than flattering comment but I just smile..........and walk away.
What I have noticed is some clubs never seem to have any door vultures, others it seems to be standard operating procedure.
And yes I got nailed just last summer in NYC although it wasn't a door vulture but it cost me a lot more than you spent.
If a girl is an obvious Door Vulture, get rid of her. But I wouldn't unconditionally turn down a girl that comes over to me quickly. The main lesson is: the moment you get that first small-but-unreasonable request, it's time to cut your losses
And it wasn't like the first dancer was so compelling I lost my marbles. I just wanted to get some dances underway quickly and hoped that my lack of normal cautiousness wouldn't betray me. But no, the moment I dropped my guard - Boom!
That's why rules is rules in the first place!... ;-)
But I can’t give you too much crap, I’ve done similar.
Forewarned is forearmed. I now know to ask up front - do you get naked and allow hands-on? It's worked at Follies, and now it's needed at Flashers, too. Hate to get too direct, but really, we all know why we're in the club. No point in being coy.
But it's still ROB behavior. Especially in a club where you've been a regular, my reaction would be to end the dance immediately, pay whatever the standard rate was for only the dance(s) completed, and look for a better dancer.
With respect to the OP’s situation - he was in a hurry - and that put him in a vulnerable position.
It’s like swinging at the first pitch - it can be a wasted swing - but there are rare times when you knock it out of the park.
SJG
That was your actual lesson. The dancer who liked your business well enough to tell you was trying to do you a favor. The first dancer who sat down with me the other day made promises, convinced me she was serious and delivered. No fuss. No muss. YMVW. We've all seen the jump you in the doorway sort of dancer, so yeah they exist. The art is to knowing when to roll the dice.
"You have to use your own judgement." <- What she said. No need to dwell. Walk it off.
that is the last time i’ll give in to a girl that quickly that i haven’t experienced before... in short we went to vip and she changed the terms of the dance after i first tipped her... (big mistake to tip first!)
Nothings 100%, but when I’m up for some heavy flirting or more, this seems to really break the ice early.
Not drag lopaw into this — and I apologize in advance if she doesn’t want to be — but I remember she posted she had a rule at one time to always accept the first dance from the first dancer to ask in order to set herself up as a spending customer. That’s a little different than the guys ever need to do. I know I tend to have done something similar in the past when clubbing with a female civvie in the club with much the same benefit. It cuts to the chase back in the DR and on the floor. So even if that first dancer to approach isn’t couple friendly, the one who IS has just seen this and will now approach.
This is where subraman’s don’t-be-a-little-bitch or rickdugan’s hit up the sale for the 2-for-1-sack-and-spine-combo helps you deal when this happens. Don’t be bullied buy a teenager in her underwear! If you don’t want a dance and don’t want to tip her, tell her so.
Other times early in the shift the *IT* girl or the *in demand* girl will approach you. There are times where I got a dance or two and it turned out that had I waited (“eh, maybe later ...”), I would have missed out because 45 minutes later the line formed or her regulars came in.
Other times like rossl, is see something I like and would rather get the ball rolling, or because I’m on time crunch and don’t care to sit alone for 30 minutes just to finish my drink or just so see the rotation before making a choice. It’s not like I’m choosing a wife. Just Miss Right Now. ;P
It’s a good rule but at the same time it’s a silly rule.
It seems like founder changed something so that the Tuscl menu button isn’t working on mobile within threads but does on the main pages. At least it isn’t for me. :(
If you have to think about it when you jumps on you, I will pass. i admitt it takes control.
They will find you.
Anybody, aside from the aforementioned exceptions, who asks me for a dance without chatting, whether I’ve been there for three seconds or three hours, will likely get (if I’m at all interested) something “let’s chat a bit first, you might not like me.” If she doesn’t sit down to chat, that’s my answer.
SJG
This is what I suspected and I do have the habit of declining the first dancer that approaches me. It's like a "let me see what's in the store first before I buy" kind of thing
I can see that being a thing if one prefers to have the girls approach, rather than approaching the girls. I personally don’t have time to wait for a possibly busy, possibly shy, possibly not paying attention, possibly pissed off, possibly daydreaming, possibly a gazillion other distraction occupied, stripper to notice me.
I respect others’ desire to be approached, it’s just not for me.