Comments by scott1971

You're right, Tessie and driver but perhaps on the other hand what the other girls tend to do in a given club can contribute to a sense of expectations on the part of the customer. The customer does not thereby earn some kind of "right" to extras or a prior warning that they won't be delivered but it does set up a problem for the dancer who does not want to play that way. Knowing this false expectation might exist in a given club it is probably worthwhile to develop a strategy to address it in a way that defuses the expectation while still preserving business as it were. Unfair though it may be, just staying silent may have the unintended and undesired result of creating unsatisfied customers. I'm not at all defending the situation, only describing it. Book Guy wasn't in my opinion "misled" at all, but if a dancer is tagged with that rep--fairly or otherwise--it's obviously not helpful to her.

Check the gloassary. ATF==All Time Favorite. SO=Significant Other. That second one is hardly specific to stripping; the first one is.

My take on it is that she's a fantasy--of course we're attached to her. The fantasy is terrific. The trouble starts when we manage to forget it's a fantasy.

whghlost--Surely you can appreciate that there is a clear preponderance of opinion in the replies you've collected from a wide variety of commenters. You've gotten some good advice here, especially from pushin50 and FONDL. Leave her alone. You may split hairs to convince yourself it's not "stalking," but the kind of behavior you're describing is the reason restraining orders exist. If she seeks one--which she certainly could under the circumstances--it will become illegal for you to come anywhere near her. You want her to hear you out. She's made it abundantly clear that she doesen't want to. She doesen't have to. Leave her alone and try to appreciate your behavior patterns--my guess is this isn't an aberrant pattern for you but is rather one that you are prone to finding yourself in. It's not a healthy pattern.

I think it's self-deception to think of it as an "affair substitute." It strikes me (as a happily 10+ year married family man kind of guy) as just another way of trying to tell oneself that "it's not really cheating." It is an affair and it is cheating. It's a different kind of "affair" than one that carries emotional/romantic elements but an affair nevertheless. I think that's what we're paying for. In exchange for money we have a "safer" affair--no attachments, no courting no emotional investment--a financial investment instead. The money replaces those elements of relationship building one would have to put into a "traditional" affair. For some, that's a level of "cheating" one can live with on occasion when a "traditional" affair would be unthinkable, undesired, and just plain would/could never happen. But it doesen't surprise me a bit that in your last sentence this hypothetical guy who went telling himself "it's not really an affair--it's an 'affair substitute'" discovers the reality doesen't match the deception. Seems to me better to be honest with oneself and go in with one's eyes open--decide to do it if one wants, but don't try to do it while pretending it's really something else. Sorry if that sounds judgmental.

Like those "Got Milk?" adds. :) Got cum?

Fact. Some girls do it. It's not urine. Some of them find it embarrassing. But it's real.

In all fairness there's a bit of a line one crosses when one moves from "tapping the foot on the floor" to reaching said foot under the stall wall to caress the ankle of the guy in the next stall.

Beats the alternatives--would you rather find youself disinterested in sex? I guess if it's obsessive and intrusive and disruptive to your life or addictive in the form of a pattern of repeatedly doing flat out reckless things (high STD risk, unaffordable expenditures, unacceptable risk to primary relationship) it could qualify as a legitimate problem but short of that I like to think it's just fun.

Bummer--won't be able to divert the needed funds until 9/12. Probably won't get back to the club until the end of September. Might meet David9999's suggested timeframe. :) Too bad--I was hoping to pull it off sooner. The longer to wait the better to have. As long as she's not gone by then. :)

So here's a question--should I have done (and should I still do) what lotsofun mentioned--return to the club if only to "just talk to her" and let her know I'm sorry to have had to leave when I did and that I'm interested and planning to return? I see pros and cons I think. To be blunt I want to do what will make it most likely that I will get maximum mileage in the next round. Seems to me the primary answer to that is to come back with cash and little else probably matters but what do you guys think of the gesture of being "nice" outside of that? Unnecessary or sweet and endearing?

I've been thinking about this thread. I think clubbing is different from going to a brothel. There is an element of fun and uncertainty in clubbing the brothel cannot reproduce. The stuff we've all been discussing here about this "hobby" involves a whole element of flirting, "getting lucky," a sort of seduction to try to get a girl who might do extras to actually do extras, a game of skill to get alone time with the right girl and all that. If what we were looking for was to go to the counter, place an order and get what was requested, we'd go, I think, to a brothel in the first place. But we're looking to get with stippers, not whores. No question, once we're talking about "extras," we're talking about prostitution, but just the same, the fantasy of the stripper who gives an "extra" is different from going to a prostitute--there is no "extra" to score with the prostitute. She's supposed to do it pure and simple. It's different I think--if the stip clubs disappeared I, for one, would have no temptation in the slightest to hit a brothel. The clubs appeal to me strongly--brothels don't appeal to me even a tiny little bit.

Lotsoffun-- I have tried mightily--and succeeded--to resist the urge to return to the club without cash "just for a chat." I was, and even remain, very tempted to do just that (and I called the club 2 nights later but she wasnt working that night or I would have done it then) but the reality is, I think, that she'll be much more interested in the chat when I also have money. :) I'm hoping to put it together this week and approach the stage with a tip and a line about "unfinished business." I feel like returning to the club "just to see her" is a bit. . . well. . . PL-ish. :)

By the way--I do (now) have an e-mail address I can share with you if you want to hear about the next chapter in more detail than I'd post here--Scott_TUSCL @ yahoo dot com. Feel free to send an e-mail. . .

Obviously I haven't mentioned any specific dancers (and won't/wouldn't) but aside from club management it occurred to me to wonder whether law enforcement might be scanning the boards which would generate trouble for a club even if a specific dancer is anonymous. Think that's paranoid?

Ask her. Say: "I hope you don't mind if I ask where you're dancing. If it wouldn't freak you out I'd love to see you sometime."

Your interpretation is correct, Doug. Funny thing--I've now got just such a thing in my desk drawer--started a few days ago. :) It'll grow very slowly--I'm diverting a few dollars a day I was already spending on snacks I can live without--but I figure it'll get to critical mass a few times a year which is just right. :) Your comment, though, that if I want to see this dancer again waiting a few months is pretty unlikely to succeed was probably right also so I think I've come up with a way to get a single shot as a separate business payment--hopefully next week.

Thanks for that FONDL. I think my feeling is more that I wish I'd been keen enough to avoid the first girl I spent money on--In retrospect I should have been able to tell she wasn't the one. That's where I'll be smarter next time. Maybe.

David-- Details went like this. Cabaret after my tip along with brief conversation--I let on that I don't like lap dances at times because I don't like to be passive or the only one pleasured--I want to touch her also. She's pretty clear about that--"That's easy" was her answer. In hindsight obviously much better than the "a little" I got from the first dancer I approached with that line on whom I then foolishly spent two dances to see how far I'd get--touched the outside of her kitty a bit and she let it go on but not really. Anyway, so this girl is on my lap and I'm feeling her up and circling her nipple so she says "we'd better take this upstairs," and up we went. Seems one thing the girls are very conscious of is no overtly sexual touching downstairs in public space. She offered me the VIP stuff but it was over budget so we went to the usual dance. She took off her panties and I didn't stop her--this was one piece I got right. :) So the dance was hot from the start. She got on me facing me after a bit of stick shifting, straddled me and started rocking her clit back and forth on my hard on. We had a rhythm that was working well for both of us and good eye contact as well, and I had a pretty firm grip on her perfect nipples and breasts and also moving my fingers teasingly close to her kitty. Half way through the song she's moaning softly a bit and she turns around and sits on my lap, still rubbing me with her ass but now sort of laying across my lap on her back with her legs open wide giving me full access (even I knew what to do with that invitation). So now my hand is in her crotch, finger on her clit. Stopped for a second to lick it for lube (delicious) and then went to work on it--very effective--she's panting and just looking incredibly hot as I look into her face (nothing really that I like more than a pretty aroused face). Who cares whether she was faking it but I don't think so. We continued that way until it all tragically had to end. I sought a hook up OTC which she declined and I left the club. Suffice it to say if it was an attemt to create return business for increased cash it was a resounding success. I don't know (yet) what's on offer in the VIP room but when I asked her her reply was "anything we want."

If "fornication" is the "original sin," then a "sin tax" on prostitution could be the Original Sin Tax. Could be a new staple in the yearly conversation with the accountant--"so how much OST do I owe this year?"

Thanks for that, Doug. Definitely in the category of rookie mistake. I've been going to the clubs off and on for actually many years but I'd say I wasn't really awake to the possibilities before. I'd get my dance, quietly get what pleasure I could but I followed the rules and didn't ask for more than was on the menu. This trip out was my first in a very long time--it had pretty much gotten to seen it all. But this time I started to figure it out so thought I'd experiment a little. That's what happened with the first girl. She was leeting me get away with just a little so I went for the second dance. Shouldn't have but at that point I didn't yet fully realize what was possible. So I have no regrets there--learning experience. I think the only real regret was that at the end of that dance with the one I liked I didn't think to push for a few free extra minutes. I think she would have agreed but even if not I'd have no regrets for asking, if you know what I mean. This may sound strange but I was far more interested in getting her off than vice versa. :) But you're quite right--though I've been in and out of clubs for years, I would definitely identify myself as new at it--I thought the surface was the whole picture. I didn't get access to TUSCL until after this experience (my review from this night was my entree)--helpful place indeed. Your advice is well taken. Perhaps I can find a way to grab some extra undetected cash next week or 2 to have another go at it.