Comments by FONDL (page 7)

Perhaps a history lesson is in order here. Go back as far as you care to go and you'll find that about once a decade gasoline prices have skyrocketed, peaked, then settled into a long term decline (in real terms.) And if you average the price changes over a long period of time you find that the overall average increase has been slightly below the overall inflation rate. For example, the price of gasoline hasn't risen less than the price of the average new car over the past 20 or 30 years. In other words the pricer of the car has pushed driving cost up more than has the price of fuel. Gasoline prices will most likely peak this summer and then begin another long-term decline (in real terms) as supply and demand adjust to the current higher prices and come back into balance. (Remember that prices are set at the margin and it doesn't take much change in supply and demand to have a huge impact on price, and also remember that there is price elasticity with gasoline and oil, that supply and demand do react to price, but the reaction has a time lag.) And you might also keep in mind that we've artificially restricted our own production of oil and gasoline (as well as electricity with which oil competes) by placing severe environmental limits on where oil companies are allowed to drill and where they can build new refineries. We complain that the Saudis restrict their output but we've done exactly the same thing. That may be good environmental but there's a huge cost associated with it, and we're now paying that cost. Something to think about when next you're filling your tank.

Just curious, Casualguy, but how much do you spend annually on your auto insurance, maintenance, and the depreciation on you car? It strikes me as silly to drinve an expensive car that's costing you $5,000+ in depreciation and worry about the price of fuel. Why not complain about the cost of the car instead? It's a much larger part of the cost of driving. Even at $4 a gallon, your fuel cost is probably less than 25% of your total annual driving cost.

Zerzan, Wondergirl dropped off this board because one of our weirdos was sending her frightening private messages. And yes, she is into BDSM.

I agree with Imnumnutz, CCR has decent food at very reasonable prices, which is why the place was always packed at dinner time and everyone was eating. And best of all, my ATF used to serve it too me. Which is why it was my regular hangout for a couple of years. Many happy memories.

I'd start with Brad's Brass Flamingo with it's party atmosphere, young funky girls, and low prices and add several small private rooms with a comfy little sofa in each. I think that would pretty much do it. Then it would be a larger version the old Pirate's Den in Key West, which is the closest thing to a perfect club I've ever seen.

Clubber, I agree completely. Which is why I said "nostalgia" instead of "history." We ignore history at our own peril. And we're getting ready to do so again.

Clubber, I have very bad memories of the Green Parrot. It's the only time I've ever had a really big fight with my ATF. We'd been to dinner first and both had way too much to drink. We then went to the Green Parrot and were shooting pool when two young guys kinda horned in thinking she was available, so I hustled her out of there. Later she got really pissed and we had a big blowup and didn't speak to each other for several months after that. The interesting thing is that I was in the habit of seeing her every Tuesday night at a club where she worked as a waitress, and I stopped going. Each Tuesday I asked myself if I should go and the internal answer was always "no, it's too soon, I'm not ready." Then one Tuesday the answer changed and I decided to go. She called me that day and asked me to come in to see her. There are no coincidences in this world, there's a bond between us, she and I are on the same wavelength. Strange but true.

Seems to me that if such a bill were to go through, many clubs would only allow their dancers to work part time, which is what many of them prefer anyway. So the club still wouldn't have to provide any benefits. And I bet a lot of dancers would work off the books to avoid the social security charge. Just like a lot of part time employees do now in other linds of businesses. Just because someone passes a law doesn't mean that people are going to comply with it, I'm sure a lot of clubs, especially smaller ones, will figure ways to get around it. I can't picture the IRS spending a lot of time hassling tiny strip clubs when they don't even have enough enforcement people to go after all the big fish who are cheating - it wouldn't be cost effective.

Gentlemen's Gold Club on the outskirts of Baltimore has a kitchen that serves food prepared on the premises. I've only ever had lunch there which is primarily sandwiches, and I've only ever tried the burgers but they are pretty good. I'd guess that the dinner menu is more extensive but I don't know that for a fact. It's a very fancy place.

Just curious, but does anyone know how the law defines a strip club? And aren't there already pretty hefty amusement taxes on places that provides live entertainment, which presumably covers strip clubs (as well as sporting events)? Seems to me there are already a large number of such descriminatory taxes on the books, including taxes on visitors at airports and hotels. Isn't this the same thing? Seems to me it's just another attempt for governments to tax anything they can.

Slothrop, I think you can find both kinds of dancer in most clubs. I too try to avoid the really screwed up ones, but they always seem to be around. It probably also depends on the nature of the club you go to, some clubs seem to attract more of the really screwed up ones than do others. If the club can afford to be picky, they probably get rid of the messed-up girls. Other clubs don't have that luxury because they have trouble attracting enough girls to fill their roster, especially if they're in an area where there are a lot of clubs nearby.

Clubber, I agree with you, I'm not generally into nostalgia. The only point I was trying to make is that when you were born has a lot to do with the way you view oral sex. And a lot of other things about sex. And I too prefer to have been raised when things were much simpler. I can't imagine what high school dating must be like today but it doesn't sound like fun to me.

Clubber, I think we've had this discussion before, but for a long time Teasers was my favorite club. I used to vacation in KW every year and had some truly memorable times there. One year I especially remember - I met a girl there who would easily have become my ATF if I hadn't had to leave, wow she was special. Haven't been to the new Teasers on Duval but my guess is that it's become too touristy.

Emmy, thanks for sharing. I don't think any of us can possibly know enough about your situation to give you any useful advice. I agree with Founder, do what feels right to you. And if it turns that it doesn't lead to where you want it to go, well life is like that sometimes - learn what you can from it and move on. Good luck.

Quimby, it was both world wars (I actually typed WWI first, then changed it.) But the point is that BJs didn't become common until the late 1960s. When I was in high school in the mid-1950s, BJs were unheard of except from a girl who everyone considered to be a whore (which was a much worse name to be called than it is today.) And I'd be willing to bet that fewer than half the girls I graduated with have ever given one, even to their husbands. My generation never got to experience that. The world was a very different place then.

I've gone to stip clubs hundreds of times and have never had a problem with any sort of theft in a club. I frequently leave some money on the bar or my table to save my place when I go to the john, and it's always there when I return. I've never had a girl try to cheat me on dance count or try to tell me I owe her more than I do. I've never been shorted on change. I actually think that strip clubs are one of the safer places you can hang out from that standpoint. But maybe the kinds of clubs I prefer are a little different than what some of you other guys do - I rarely go to really seedy places or places in the downtown area of cities, most of my experience is in suburban and rural clubs. And I never drink very much in a club, which is my #2 rule of clubbing - for me drinking and clubbing are two distinctly different and mutually exclusive activities. I learned that the hard way. People are far less likely to try to cheat you when you're sober.

I agree with Emmy - for a lot of these girls it's not dancing in clubs that makes them screwed up, it's the fact that they're all screwed up that leads them to become dancers. And I think there's often a huge difference in maturity between 18 and 22.

Dancers do in fact have to make a significant investment in their business. Those outifts and shoes are pretty expensive. They also have significant operating costs - hairdresser, nails, makeup, perfume, drugs ... And they usually have to pay for theprivelege of working in the club, one way or another, it ain't all gravy. If clubs had to treat them as employees they'd hire a lot fewer girls.

My number one rule is that I'm there to have fun, and that's my only expectation. And there are many different ways that can happen, I try to remain open to lots of different kinds of possibilities. But if it doesn't happen, if it's not fun for whatever reason, I leave.

Incidently, my ATF was heading down this path, but she had enough sense to quit dancing before she got in too deep and lost control. But she's also much more intelligent than most dancers. Many of them aren't that fortunate.

Just a bit of history - oral sex was brought to this country by GIs returning from France following WWII. But until the sexual revolution of the late 60s it was limited to prostitutes. Most people like me raised before the late 60s were brought up to think of oral sex as dirty and have had very little experience with it. Obviously some younger people, especially married women, also still feel that way. Here's a relevant joke for you: A man and his bride-to-be arrive at the church early and decide to duck into the closet for a quicky. Later when the best man arrives he asks the groom why he's smiling, to which he replies that he just had the best blow job of his life. Meanwhile the maid-of-honor arrives and asks the bride why she is smiling. To which she replies, I just gave the last blow job of my life. My guess is that some of you can relate to that joke, and that maybe it has something to do with why you go to strip clubs looking for blow jobs.

I think a lot of men who frequent strip cllubs hate women, and they go so they can look down on them and make fun ot them, which somehow in their screwed up sense of values makes them feel better about their own shitty lives. A bit of that is sometimes reflected here.

Clubber, I have seen that entire thing before (in an email someone sent me about a year ago) and was told it's a hoax, that most of it isn't true. Don't know if that's the case or not, but be careful what you believe and circulate as truth. A lot of stuff that circualtes is pure fabrication on someone's part.

I think that strip clubs create two related problems for a lot of young girls: the constant pressue to lower their morals, and the prevalance of drug use in most clubs. The combination can destroy the life of a young girl who doesn't have much of a postive self image and just goes along with the crowd. Which sadly is most of them. That's the dark side of strip clubs and one obvious reason why so many people are opposed to them. It's a valid concern that we shouldn't ignore.

I'd choose the one who looks like there's less risk of potential problems, eg. #2. The first girl looks like major problems just waiting to happen.