Stripper sells 30 minute room for $$$. Good grind and few minutes in LDK. Stripper announces dance is finished gets up and asks for a tip for “good service”. When asking about the remaining 24 minutes of the dance stripper hints that LDK without “consent” could be considered sexual assault and leaves the dance. How would you handle this occurrence.
I'd start asking dancers how they feel about LDK *before* buying VIP. What she's really saying is that giving a dancer a surprise wet spot is a shitty thing to do. And she's not wrong.
As far as the question "Is it sexual assault?" goes, all you're going to get here is opinions (some more educated than others).
The only way to get a definitive answer is to test the question in court (which is unlikely). Even then, it's going to depend on local laws defining sexual assault, the circumstances, and the judge's own reasoning.
So, again, maybe the takeaway here is "Don't give dancers a surprise wet spot."
To have sexy fun time with a hot woman. You do realize that, in a club packed with guys, the vast majority of them are not sitting there hoping to drive home in a stew of their own semen, right? Correspondingly, most dancers aren't expecting it either.
Just to clarify, I go for extras well beyond LDK when I go to the club. But I also let the dancer know ahead of time what I want. There's no surprise LDK, FIV, LFK, or any other surprise acronym.
And, hear me out, I could be crazy... but I suspect that's why over the course of hundreds of VIPs and lapdances, the words "sexual assault" haven't come into play.
I sincerely doubt that any girl could successfully press a claim of sexual assault when her grinding on your lap in a sexual manner caused your premature ejaculation.
With that said, just fucking ewww. What were you expecting, her to hop on your wet spot for another 24 minutes?
I doubt the crack legal minds here will reach a consensus regarding the legality of whether LDK would be considered sexual assault.
I have enough control and awareness - to not LDK during a lap dance.
However, if I couldn’t control myself, I would provide the dancer with advance warning that I might cum from her grinding. It’s important to avoid fluid exchange, especially if you don’t know if the dancer is ok with it.
"I doubt the crack legal minds here will reach a consensus regarding the legality of whether LDK would be considered sexual assault."
My take is about as valid as any legal mind on crack, so here goes. If the girl is participating in consensual masturbation using some part of her body on a dudes cum cannon, there's a reasonable expectation that shots may get fired. It's like Russian Roulette with sperm.
Or is the dancer right in thinking that a guy should be able to hold his wad? What about all the dancers who are just fine with jizz and try to do the coconut?
I think it's incredibly unlikely that such a thing would ever go to court, let alone end in a conviction. The dancer in this story most likely rang the "sexual assault" bell to register how unhappy she was about a surprise wet spot 5 minutes into a 30 minute dance. And she bailed on the dance knowing that it's going to be tough for the customer to complain to management with a leaking puddle in his shorts.
Though it's not very frequent, this isn't the first time that LDK, consent, and sexual assault have wound up in the same thread. It's also far from the first time that we've heard stories (sometimes first-hand from dancers) about dancers who really don't like surprise LDK. So, it's pretty obvious that there's a population of dancers who aren't on board, and the best way to figure out who is who is to tell the dancer ahead of time that you want LDK or it might happen.
But it seems like whenever the idea of telling a dancer ahead of time that you want LDK comes up, a lot of the LDK guys go radio silent. I suspect that the reason there is some combination of wanting to nut on the cheap and getting away with something creepy sneaky. Neither of those is a good look for a customer.
There are certain things I expect to happen while I am at work. Things that are out of the norm too or "odd" as well.
I would expect most dancers not to be surprised if they caused a LDK. Especially considering this is occurring on a 40 year old male who never would have had sex unless it wasn't for an Asian spa. A number of dancers (I am not sure if it is the MAJORITY of dancers) actually go into a lapdance with this specific goal in mind. I'm guessing this was an incredibly naive dancer or one that thought "I did my job now let me take this extra 24 minutes to go back on the floor and earn more money." I can't blame her for not wanting to continue grinding on a wet lap though.
Count me in the camp that would be shocked if a successful sexual assault conviction were to arise from a previously unagreed to LDK. You could make an almost equally ridiculous argument that she sexually assaulted you. After all, you didn't explicitly consent to that sort of sexual stimulation any more (or less) than she did. If it's not obvious, I'm not a lawyer and I'm being sarcastic here.
IMO It's absolutely fucking reasonable for her to expect to be warned before it happened, and to expect that to conclude the event. Whether she should expect it or consented to the act by virtue of consenting to dry hump doesn't really change the fact that common courtesy dictates you give her a heads up before, even if it's literally moments before. And the expectation that she continue to dance on a lap full of jizz without explicit prior consent is far more unreasonable than her not considering the possibility that her actions may result in said lap to become filed with jizz.
To tie this in to the other thread about luck vs skill, this is the kind of shit that keeps the bar low. Guys who consistently have a good time with strippers don't do this sort of thing, but I'd hardly consider that a skill.
You know how there was that weirdo ape that kept cryin’ and sayin’ “leave Britney alone”?
Well, this rick says “leave the pantsjizzers alone!” They are sad apes that jizz in their frickin’ pants after all. You know how frickin’ sad I’d be if I jizzed in my trousers? Well…you’ll never know, because I don’t jizz in my frickin’ trousers.
But I am a sympathetic rick and I don’t want life to be any worse than it already is for the pantsjizzer crowd. They have my sympathy.
Unless they cross me, in which case it’s wildebeest time. But I’ll stay well clear of the trousers because I don’t want hairless ape jizz on my stylin’ suit. ROAR!!!
Not a lawyer, but from what little I understand, I can't imagine this being sexual assault anywhere. It's just one of those things that gets passed around in the stripper community, that this is sexual assault.
That said, I too don't blame her for getting up and leaving. She doesn't have to wiggle around on a wet spot. Dance over. I feel like the primer directive of LDKers should be not to get their jizz on the girl -- couldn't you wear a condom underneath or something?
^ even though you’re not a lawyer did you get your knowledge from the non fiction section at the San Jose Library or talking to some attorneys at the bath house? Definitely not in the alley behind the library.
Does anybody remember the thread where some guy said he uses a hair tie to keep the rubber from coming off in his pants? It seemed like a legit post so I didn't troll, but the only thing I'm going to be inside wearing a rubber is a woman. Just sayin'.
If Jerry Springer had a show about dudes who didn't know how to get a proper lapdance with actual strippers to show them how it's done, it would have made the second best daytime talk show of all time even better.
Its not a question of "can I get prosecuted for sexual assault", its a question of "am I behaving like an asshole". Jizzing in pants that someone else has to sit on, without first asking them "is this ok", is rude and gross.
It's simple to fix, just tell her you're about to come in your pants, and she will decide what her next move is.
If you ldk'ed without having first discussed or negotiated prices, then tip her (~$50 is normal where I'm at). Of course it's going to be seen as rude if you're not going to tip after she makes you cum
Only once in 20+ years of LDK experiences has there been a dancer object to it. That means 99% of dancers are dedicating their efforts to accomplish the LDK in my experience, with no fuss and a hug and a peck on the cheek after services rendered. Some of you act like going to the strip club is like going on a date where you’re trying to woo a woman into your special graces. No, these girls are looking to set up repeat business to keep you spending, and the #1 way is to provide a good experience topped off with an LDK. As long as you tip appropriately, the dancer will be happy to continue repeat business and service you with an LDK in the future, with no strings attached. She is proud of her accomplishment and doesn’t see it as gross or demeaning. She sees it as an OTP massage, where the mess is on the PL, and gross for the pl, not the dancer. Such prudes on this site, more prudish than stripperweb was at times.
"Some of you act like going to the strip club is like going on a date where you’re trying to woo a woman into your special graces."
Nope. I'm trying to act like a guy who wants more than one dance/VIP from a hot dancer who is a lot of fun. To that end, I talk to her about what I want rather than startle her mid dance. This is especially important with new-to-me dancers.
It's easy to do and preempts this entire debate (and other issues beside that). So, why not just talk to the dancer?
@mate: "That means 99% of dancers are dedicating their efforts to accomplish the LDK in my experience"
Your logic is showing the basis for the disconnect here. You don't know anything about 99% of dancers, you've never met them. Perhaps 99% of dancers you have met think this, but if you haven't asked them you don't even know that much. And also, dancers are people. They like to know if they're grinding into a puddle of your bodily fluids.
I've never LDK'ed and I would never want to. However, I have had dancers who tried like hell to make that happen. You really can't blame her for not wanting to continue grinding in your cum-stained lap. Now the LDK without consent bit is pure bullshit, unless someone can find precedent in that specific legal jurisdiction. Her asking for tips is more bullshit, but that tip-requesting crap is everywhere. Having said all that, if you had 24 minutes left, then she had 24 minutes left. If you just wanted to sit there in your sticky pants and shoot the shit with her, then I don't know why she left.
LDK is disgusting imo and since being a "minute man" was the worst possible thing ever when I was young, I am trained to last a long time under stimulation. The effort to get me to LDK is just rubbing my dick raw and total turn-off. It is not sexual assault, which requires a specific intent and one could always argue it was unintentional....
If a customer is prone to an LDK, and the customer thinks there’s nothing wrong with an LDK, then why wouldn’t that customer inform the dancer before she begins grinding that he might LDK?
I doubt a case would make it to court. But, the threat of a lawsuit or sexual assault case, would likely be enough to scare an LDK prone dude out of a strip club with a wet spot still in his pants!
@cash. This gets to the heart of the ldk issue. Ldk fans don’t like to admit it, but for some there is an element of surprise, sneakiness, getting one over, “oops I can’t *believe* that happened” etc. to this element of the hobby. The shock on the dancer’s face is part of the thrill. Sexual excitement is easily paired with other stimuli, and I’m sure you can imagine how this becomes a kink.
The consent crowd smell this and don’t like it.
The “manners are for everybody” crowd also don’t like it.
My distaste for this kind of stuff is due to the overt look what I can get away with imbalance and lack of consent. This is typical juvenile behavior and implies a total lack of respect for women in general.
To this day I still can't understand how premature ejaculation ever earned a "Lap Dance King" label on here. I get the douche chills each and every time I see the term LDK used to describe a guy jizzing in his own pants. But if you're one of those people afflicted by this condition, at least warn the girl beforehand and let her decide if she wants your jizz on her ass.
Is it likely to get you prosecuted for sexual assault? No.
Does cumming in your pants while a stripper is grinding on you without making sure she is OK with it make you an asshole? Yes, at least give her a little warning beforehand so she can choose whether she wants your cum all over her ass or not.
Is it likely to get you kicked out of the club? Maybe, depends on the approved mileage limits for the club.
Should you expect the dancer to keep grinding on you after you leave a wet spot on your crotch? Hell no, that is something that most dancers would find disgusting.
Is it fair to expect her to keep giving you an air dance for the rest of the time you had paid for? Maybe, but at the very least you need to give her time to go get cleaned up from the mess you made on her. I honestly can't see asking her to keep dancing for me after something like that personally, but I guess I can somewhat see an argument that could be made for it.
What do they say, don't rub the lamp unless you want the genie to come out?
I rarely LDK these days, but every time I ever have I made sure to keep her well way from the wet spot. Common courtesy because it's a bodily fluid and I wouldn't want to be covered in anyone else's.
Last time I did, she told me she wanted me to cum for her and worked damn hard to. And I had to focus my thoughts to do so.
"Probably the same sort of dark humor that got us calling ourselves Pathetic Losers."
Actually it was a certain member who insisted for months (or was it years?) that their namesake acronym get added to the TUSCL glossary. Like an active, very vocal campaign. It's one of the reasons I won't type it, because the whole thing was a little over the top and the term itself makes no sense.
I'm not going to invoke the name of another dude when discussing getting my nut, ever. The hobby already had enough cringe to it without introducing some random term that nobody off TUSCL would know.
You guys can have your fun and call it what you want.
Im just going to guess this whole thread is one big troll. I will always remember a thick redhead w checked her ass for any residue and when i told her i LDK'd she smirked and said "well that's the point" before taking my money and walking out the room. I should have married her
I also had a ukranian who after I LDK'd would continue grinding until I was ready again and continue until the 2nd pop. Then that was her signal to get up and collect the fee ($120) which was a much better bargain and more enjoyable than many extras. Reading through some of these comments makes me sad that you guys truly havent lived. Im glad I had my fun when I was young. These days Id prolly pass out with 2 LDKs in one session
Drewcareypnw, I already prequalified my statement with my experience, so not sure what part of your reading comprehension is failing you, because yiu added to the redundancy by quoting “my experience” in your response. Therefore I never stated all dancers which makes me wonder why you brought it up? I was specifically commenting not on all dancers, just mine. Maybe slow down and breathe in the words first before firing away a response?
Anyway, the righteous uppity crowd who think the way they’re having fun with strip clubs is running high I see. The ones who mostly oppose the LDK are also the ones bragging about how they can coerce a dancer outside of the working confines of the club to take care of their physical needs at some discreet location off grounds, and that mode is more manly than on site in your pants. Doesn’t matter where you nut, in her mouth off site (or in her pussy) your means are still way more morally and disgusting of an activity than a more harmless jizzed underwear seeker. Jizzing in the pants I can easily venture to say happens way more often in clubs than the otc trysts, and I can easily venture to say there is less emotional damage done to the provider giving LDK than compared to the emotional damage done to a dancer that has to stoop herself to the level of accepting a cash infusion by taking a naked pl to a hotel doing an act she would rather not go through if she could just do a handful of LDKs in exchange. Why all the hate for LDK, it’s not like the dude is jozzing on you, or the dancer, as long as it’s contained. You’ll never get an accurate consensus from the dancing community, but guaranteed that there are more LDK providers out there than there are otc supplemented dancer incomes. Take that to the bank!
I'm not opposed to LDK. I'm opposed to giving a dancer a surprise wet spot.
And there have been enough threads on here (including this one) about dancers either being unhappy about it or avoiding it that it's pretty obvious that some significant percentage of dancers aren't on board.
So, just bring it up before buying dances. Easy peasy. After that, you can exit VIP wet to the knees for all I care.
“Generally, sexual assault refers to any nonconsensual sexual act prohibited by state or federal law, including acts when the victim is unable to consent.”
You wrote that she said, and I quote:
“LDK without “consent” could be considered sexual assault”
You could say she sexually assaulted you. Not only was she not dancing but she was grinding on you so hard you came. You paid for a dance but instead she grinded the jizz out of you. You might be able to get a class action lawsuit against her if you get all her former customers together.
===> "The ones who mostly oppose the LDK are also the ones bragging about how they can coerce a dancer outside of the working confines of the club to take care of their physical needs at some discreet location off grounds, and that mode is more manly than on site in your pants."
@Mate: Are you channeling Icee now? Who said anything about coercing anyone to do anything? I can only speak for myself, but I have never, not once, run a hard sell on any girl. I just open the door with an opportunity. If she doesn't like the choice, she has ample other options to try to deal with whatever problem she is tackling. If she chooses to go OTC with me, it's about convenience, not some life or death situation.
I also disagree with your notion that a premature ejaculator is a lesser problem, especially when he's doing it by stealth (which is a lot of them). When a girl leaves the club with a guy, she's making an active choice. She said yes to both the guy himself and what he wishes to do. She did neither with the guy who secretly gets his jizz on her ass.
@mate: I thought that “ Only once in 20+ years of LDK experiences has there been a dancer object to it. That means 99% of dancers are dedicating their efforts to accomplish the LDK in my experience” implies to me that you are generalizing your experience to all strippers, but cool if you’re just talking about the ones you’ve jizzed on. Hell, my gmat score was only 99th percentile, so there’s a 1% chance that I don’t understand your delicate prose.
I guess you asked them after how they felt about you jizzing on them? Was it an “oh daddy more come please” type response? Or maybe you sat them down before and said “so darlin’, I’m going to fill up my pants with matesperm halfway through this dance, and some of that is going to stick to your ass and pussy. Cool?”
The argument from many guys who jizz their pants without telling a dancer, is not an effective argument.
The guys who try to tell others that they are worse for offering a dancer money to go OTC, aren’t making a logical argument.
The entire OTC experience is consentual. I’ve never ripped off my condom and jizzed on an unsuspecting stripper. That would be the only comparable way to engage in OTC that might approach a stealth pants jizzing.
When a guy says that grinding on my hard on through my pants is something that dancers know will make me cum, that’s not true. That is not a good argument.
It’s not that I think you are having fun the wrong way. I simply believe the dancer should be informed in advance that you can’t (or won’t) control your ejaculation, and you might cum in your pants while she grinds.
How cute, Rickyboi believes his driving an otc junkie stripper around town trying find her dealer to catch a fix before riding Dugan Dick is way more justifiably righteous than one mishap in my 20+ year career enjoying ITC LDK lap dances. One mishap out of hundreds of encounters can never out hit the damage done from Rick’s drinking and driving adventures with drug addicted strippers on their backslide to their demons. Anyway, that’s cute how the pure odds play out that there’s a lot more shit to navigate those otc waters…and time. An ITC jizz juicer who squeezes out a couple LDKs in an hour can make easily 500-$600 a shift. And only invest her time for 4 hours without ever getting naked, or pretending she enjoys the act for which she is being paid for. There are a lot of fast and fun women who can have fun at the club happily giving a few LDKs a shift and think nothing of it other than an OTP massage, then they go home on their own time doing things they want to do, not what their otc partner wants to do. They’re more efficient witt their time management than a drug addicted stripper needing a fix before she has sex with Dugan, the biggest anti LDK fag this site has. He thinks his way is superior to an LDK?. Rotflmfao!! For those of you who think the LDK leads to assault are rong, anyseasoned club goer knows how to contain those accidents from happening, both in the patron and provider point of view. It takes common sense physics to figure it out, not some over dramatic assumption that w wry odd has this huge load shooting out of their pants. Most of mine land away far away from their intended target, and she knows where to place it. Totally harmless fun, unless you’re a righteous faggit who needs constant affirmation of his(or her) feelings.
That’s cuter Drewcareypnw, how well you can master a standardized test. It only shows yiu can pay attention, but can’t pay attention to the more valuable material. I get it, I felt empowered too when I passed my CFA, one of the most challenging designations professionals can attain. I also got high and almighty when I graduated high school, college, and other levels of higher learning, but that’s all in the past now and I tend to lean mostly in common sense these days. You know, experience is the best teacher, and if you don’t know what you’re doing, yiu really should t be commenting about it. Stay in your lane. There are way more LDK providers than otc providers. Diffeeent game but different players, too.
There have been threads on LDK before, but this one has a twist. My take is the dancer intentionally tried to get you off quick to earn her $$$ in 5 minutes instead of 30. Then put you in your place with a comment about sexual assault when you questioned the time. Kind of aggressive on her part. She probably did that routine many times before. You didn't mention if there was a wet spot, which I'd agree is a key detail. I'd say chalk it up to experience and move on. You allowed her to finish you quick and should have known there was a chance she would end things after an LDK. Next time, negotiate up front that you want the full 30 minutes and to take things slow for the first 15-20.
@Mate: You can try all you want to justify your stealth premature ejaculations by characterizing my OTC outings as drunk driving desperate junkies to drug hookups before I fuck them, lmao. But even if everything you said was true, which of course is not remotely the case, you're missing one key component: Consent. A girl who leaves the club with me is giving her consent for what is about to happen. The girl you secretly splooged on is not.
I've lost track of how many girls I've heard over the years come out of a VIP area disgusted by some guy who grabbed her hips to finish or otherwise just stayed silent as he blew his load. It's disgusting. There's a reason why we call the premature ejaculator's trip from the VIP area to the front door, as he tries to hide his wet spot, the "Walk of Shame."
@cash you are right. However one thing of many that I have learned from tuscl is that when the attacks get baseless, it's because the attacker is running out of arguments and is annoyed. Often but not always, this is because a grain of truth has gotten under their skin.
It’s simply bringing up a valid point of those who are anti LDK are constantly assuming their position as a higher moral authority. Tye counter is that LDK option is more available and just as same as the otc options, and the truth is there are more LDK service related activities centered around the clubs. Get off your high horse, and troll for drugged out addicted strippers on a backslide to fulfill your needs. LDK is the more manageable option for time and $$. That’s all, of course there are those who love to use circular logic to pound their chests.
I believe there is consent given when a stripper providing LDK services funds repeat business with me for years, not just once. I believe she is happy to see me again and give me a hug and peck on the cheek after said services, and I believe consent is given when she continues to position her assets on me to accomdate repeat business, but you do you pony boy! You’re not spending my money or time, and I the same. Again, I’m nay once in 20 years has there been a surprise with a dancer, which from the accounts from members who have done otc (or ITC) the odds are way less of any problems occurring ITC LDK than otc endeavors. That’s a fact, and consent has been implied in both scenarios. Use all the circular logic yiu want, but I have sex safely. Your mode has too many unsafe variables as documented by your exploits recorded on the discussion board. #truth
===> "Get off your high horse, and troll for drugged out addicted strippers on a backslide to fulfill your needs."
I think the term for this is strawman argument. Cite a non-existent or extremely rare situation to attack in an attempt to make rubbing your splooge on a girl without her consent appear to be the lesser offense by comparison. You'll need to do better than that. 😉
So now we are down from 99% of strippers to 99% of strippers that you have seen to ONE stripper. I have no doubt that you've found a dancer who does this knowingly and happily for you. If you'd have opened with "there is one girl who I see that..." this would have been a lot shorter converstion.
Dude Dugan, anyone who has been on this site remember your escapades written with otc adventures, especially with said stripper yiu drove around finding her drug dealer and she passed out on you, then yiu claimed higher morality by saying yiu couldn’t finish the deed because it was against your better judgment. I don’t have the time to sift through countless comical threads by you, but it’s documented in tuscl history. Also, there are other fucked uo otc exploits documented by you and yiur brethren otc imbibbers which is ok be my, it’s great seeing the drama unfold safely from behind the computer. But to say an LDK is prematurely ejacukating when clearly the dancer is saying stuff in my ears and grabbing me in places that simulate sex with clothes on, and then asking me if I’ve finished is hardly the straw man argument that I have not provided consent or upset the dancer. This is the game being played, and yiu play yiur game, pony boy. Yet the argument that your game is better than mine means you don’t know how to play my game. I’ve done the otc game, it’s an inefficient use of my time and results in too many pity hustles from strippers wanting to juice me for cash instead of performing. ITC LDK allows a quick screening process and should never be shamed in the game. Play safely everyone!
Free your just butthurt on being called out for prematurely stating anything about “my experience”. Again, as I qualified immediately my first response of this thread, over 99% of the dancers I have been with, only one ☝️ objected. What’s to extrapolate outside of those facts is that o have had well over 100 dancers provide the LDK experience, and you surmise some bullshit stats out of that comment. Get real or get off your high horse. You’re getting illogical and rambling about nothing. I am offering a realistic vantage point of guys who enjoy the clubs for what they are, a release. What’s hard about that?
25, like yiu cry about being short and fat and arguing that Icee never cow towed to you. You could have been a man and worked out your relationship as a younger man, but we know you and SJG had something in common, a miserable experience with an ex wife documented by both of you. Man up and quit telling people they’re having fun rong, because that’s what pussies do.
Woah mate formerly known as meathead, you initiate a buy in of Iceefag, making up shit out of his ass, you’ve never met me, know less than nothing about me and you’re speculating because you a butthurt whiny little boy, maybe you’re not fourteen, your scribblings here indicate you’re likely not even twelve.
===> "Dude Dugan, anyone who has been on this site remember your escapades written with otc adventures, especially with said stripper yiu drove around finding her drug dealer and she passed out on you, then yiu claimed higher morality by saying yiu couldn’t finish the deed because it was against your better judgment. "
That's the very definition of strawman Mate. Take an outrageous one-off event, which I posted about precisely because it was so outlandish and I was so thoroughly fooled until it was too late, and project it as the everyday event you're comparing it against. 😉
Oh, and when you follow up with the argument that almost every one of them came back to make you prematurely ejaculate again, it doesn't justify doing it the first time without consent.
Mate27 said "I WANT TO HAVE A PERSONALITY CONFLICT WITH OTHERS (BUT MOSTLY DUGAN) AND I CHOOSE THIS THREAD! THIS IS THE THREAD I CHOOSE!"
I might have paraphrased this a little, but I think it's accurate overall. I'm remain not anti LDK, but I still believe that a customer should tell a dancer "Hey, this is a thing that might happen..." or "Hey, this is a thing I want to happen..." before the dance. Why is this so problematic?
If guys did that, then these threads and the follow-on drama would not exist.
The arguments Mate continues to make don’t seem to help his cause.
If he believes the dancer wants him to cum in his pants, then there should be no issue for him to tell the dancer in advance (that he is prone to cuming in his pants). Then, if the dancer knows and moves forward, the consent could be implied.
Stemming from the original post, is it sexual assault? Sure, in yiur straw man argument it could be conceived with my exploits as being non consensual, yet for whatever reason it is implied consent. If anybody had to get actual verbal consent, no girl would have sexual with you. With a one off situation in my LDK experience, doesn’t constitute not giving consent to over 99-% of the dancers who has no problem with it. The definition of a straw man argument. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but we’re not entitled to agree with it. If a dancer doesn’t agree with your mode, they don’t engage ITC or otc, so the fact that the anti LDK crowd over dramatizes the act is the core of straw man argument. It’s assuming assault/premature ejaculation/non consent or whatever your perceptions are because there simply are way more offers of LDK than otc. I know because I’ve done both! Ione option has more downside variables than the other, so try changing the minds of thousands of LDK providers before getting up your high horse telling people they’re having fun rong. There’s no harm in it and if you think so then I can easily argue more harm with otc procedures. That’s all. It’s not a particular vendetta against one member, it’s just Dugan makes himself an easy target supplying multiple melodramatic scenarios in his discussion posts. Oh, and one more thing, I told you so!!
“If anybody had to get actual verbal consent, no girl would have sexual with you.”
What the actual fuck? You are about 2 steps from the “he’s a rapist crew” descending upon you. And that is not pretty. Do yourself a favor and shut the hell up!
Yawn… your made up diatribes bore me with over dramatic simplifications. Better you go coerce a drug addicted stripper out of the club so she can get her fix and an extra cash infusion to spread her legs apart. Drew, focus on yiur next standardized test. I’m sure in the idealistic world of academia you can survive, but out in the real world you have to use common sense and experience as an actual guide to having fun. I’ve never seen such examples of prudes going back to the days of primary school and the nuns conducting teachings of their faith. Amen! There’s a few of you needing to reach down between your legs and conduct a man check. I’m sure yiu can proudly go to your local church and tell fellow parishioners you put another good fearing man in his place by stating LDKs are gross yet providing an otc experience was a great mission in your Christian virtues. Rotflmfao!!
I'm long since done taking standardized tests and I'm not in academia, but thanks for the tip I won't use it. If this is so boring why can't you put it down? Your yawn is a fake as your "common sense".
Pro tip for you: in the REAL WORLD, people ask before jizzing on someone, and "gets consent" is not the same as "prude".
Look, here’s another fellow LDK-er firmly lauding his in the club experience without shame. Maybe we all should villify him for his act of non consent in the lap dance area. Looks like he is a repeat offender in cold weather territory. Your strawman argument that it places some type of assault or poor judgement is simply false in order to make yourself appear mightier than those who have fun in the most harmless way. Again, more dancers provide LDK services than otc, so prove me rong! I’m waiting….
So now premature ejaculation in his own pants is a manly thing. Down is up and up is down in this crazy world. 😆
Finding another jerkoff who thinks its OK to rub his jizz on an unsuspecting girl doesn't make you more right, it just means that two of you are wrong.
“If anybody had to get actual verbal consent, no girl would have sexual with you.”
"Phrasing!" #Archer
I don't know. It hasn't held me back. The worst that's happened is I tell a dancer what I want, she tells me it's not on her menu, and we both move on without any bad feelings. Or, I still think she's really hot and I decide that I want what she offers and pay her for it. But, more often than not I find a hot dancer who offers what I want. So...[shrug].
And, I mean, talking to a dancer up front is just smart when you're going from "Hi, I'm Joe Horny." to naked to orgasm with a complete stranger in a super abbreviated amount of time. I'm still waiting for someone to tell me why it's a problem. Again, it's not really about "sexual assault" so much as not being a dick and avoiding avoidable drama.
I don’t know, maybe you all aren’t rich studs like me that can tip well after satisfactory services, but I never have to prompt one dancer by request to “grind me until I cum” is on her menu. She offers it without asking, so maybe I’m just in a better market than you guys, or else you have no game other than breaking out the pocket book and throwing money at the situation. I get a welcome massage without having to deny those advances. I don’t make the market, I just participate in it, and the “woke” anti LDK crowd need to stop throwing out their red herring claiming their mode of fun (aka:otc) is morality above and LDK client. To me that reeks of ovwe compensating for one’s lack of game. I can play frisky women better than you, more conveniently in my time schedule, not others. Rotflmfao!! Nobody can prove I am rong when the market for LDK services are more available than otc, not one of you!
It can also not be challenged that I am the most fuckable man in America. Sorry, not sorry, that women like to do those things we men like about women. They just happily oblige to do them for me without me having to prompt them, but I understand none of you have the game to know what that’s like, so you only surmise it’s not possible there’s a market out there for guys like me who don’t have to beg for action. Look, I get it! You don’t know, what you don’t know. For that, I’m grateful for leading a life of leisure when it comes to the bounty of pretty sexy women, and you got to do some sort of dance like a peacock does. Rotflmfao!!
A minor point, but LDKs are not always "premature". It's sometimes the objective of the dancer, the customer, or both.
More important, LDKs do not always result in a wet spot. They might, they might not, especially in the immediate aftermath, when the guy signals the dancer can stop, and she does. Rick seems insistent on equating the two in every post, and then getting jizz on a dancer without her consent, but that's just not the case with all LDKs.
^^^ aah thanks for articulating the common sense aspects to the “woke” anti-LDK group who create a strawman argument of unwarranted assault upon a sexy bussom in your lap. I get it! And you don’t get it(pretty women)! Women like to be frisky towards men they are attracted to, and some dancers need to be coerced outside the club with visions of cash infusion for hours of companionship with a pl making the otc offer. My time is too valuable To waste trying to save some junkie whore from a low paying stripper job having a hard time making a liveable wage ITC she needs to resort To supplement her income on the outside. I get it, sometimes yiu have to swim with sharks but for my time, I can be at home insourcing important decisions on managing my life than spending it with drug addicted stripper hoes! Rotflmfao!! The sole anti LDK crowd really have a weak basis to stand on, more like a pity hustle. Lol!
Sexual harassment and you! The attached video needs to be viewed by the woke anti LDK crowd to understand they need to be less like Fred Armisen, and more like Tom Brady. I get it! You don’t get it, and have to pay for some extra one on one time at a discrete location in a random hotel room. Hey, that’s your gig and there’s should be no shame in your game. Not everyone can pull game ITC so they have to bait and lure their prey outside of the comfort of their environs. I get it! You don’t get it, so you have to level out the playing field by dividing in order to conquer your prey otc. I get it! You don’t get it, so you have to run a smash and grab outfit coercing dancers outside the club with promises of a cash infusion. I get it! You don’t get it, because yiu look like Fred Armisen, and not Tom Brady. Lmfaorotf!!
"Not everyone can pull game ITC" ...yes they can, try reading tuscl. And you don't pull anything other than a fast one, bc you jizz on unsuspecting strippers. Who you pay to grind on you, just like the rest of us do.
88 comments
The only way to get a definitive answer is to test the question in court (which is unlikely). Even then, it's going to depend on local laws defining sexual assault, the circumstances, and the judge's own reasoning.
So, again, maybe the takeaway here is "Don't give dancers a surprise wet spot."
To have sexy fun time with a hot woman. You do realize that, in a club packed with guys, the vast majority of them are not sitting there hoping to drive home in a stew of their own semen, right? Correspondingly, most dancers aren't expecting it either.
Just to clarify, I go for extras well beyond LDK when I go to the club. But I also let the dancer know ahead of time what I want. There's no surprise LDK, FIV, LFK, or any other surprise acronym.
And, hear me out, I could be crazy... but I suspect that's why over the course of hundreds of VIPs and lapdances, the words "sexual assault" haven't come into play.
With that said, just fucking ewww. What were you expecting, her to hop on your wet spot for another 24 minutes?
I have enough control and awareness - to not LDK during a lap dance.
However, if I couldn’t control myself, I would provide the dancer with advance warning that I might cum from her grinding. It’s important to avoid fluid exchange, especially if you don’t know if the dancer is ok with it.
My take is about as valid as any legal mind on crack, so here goes. If the girl is participating in consensual masturbation using some part of her body on a dudes cum cannon, there's a reasonable expectation that shots may get fired. It's like Russian Roulette with sperm.
Or is the dancer right in thinking that a guy should be able to hold his wad? What about all the dancers who are just fine with jizz and try to do the coconut?
Though it's not very frequent, this isn't the first time that LDK, consent, and sexual assault have wound up in the same thread. It's also far from the first time that we've heard stories (sometimes first-hand from dancers) about dancers who really don't like surprise LDK. So, it's pretty obvious that there's a population of dancers who aren't on board, and the best way to figure out who is who is to tell the dancer ahead of time that you want LDK or it might happen.
But it seems like whenever the idea of telling a dancer ahead of time that you want LDK comes up, a lot of the LDK guys go radio silent. I suspect that the reason there is some combination of wanting to nut on the cheap and getting away with something creepy sneaky. Neither of those is a good look for a customer.
I would expect most dancers not to be surprised if they caused a LDK. Especially considering this is occurring on a 40 year old male who never would have had sex unless it wasn't for an Asian spa. A number of dancers (I am not sure if it is the MAJORITY of dancers) actually go into a lapdance with this specific goal in mind. I'm guessing this was an incredibly naive dancer or one that thought "I did my job now let me take this extra 24 minutes to go back on the floor and earn more money." I can't blame her for not wanting to continue grinding on a wet lap though.
IMO It's absolutely fucking reasonable for her to expect to be warned before it happened, and to expect that to conclude the event. Whether she should expect it or consented to the act by virtue of consenting to dry hump doesn't really change the fact that common courtesy dictates you give her a heads up before, even if it's literally moments before. And the expectation that she continue to dance on a lap full of jizz without explicit prior consent is far more unreasonable than her not considering the possibility that her actions may result in said lap to become filed with jizz.
To tie this in to the other thread about luck vs skill, this is the kind of shit that keeps the bar low. Guys who consistently have a good time with strippers don't do this sort of thing, but I'd hardly consider that a skill.
Well, this rick says “leave the pantsjizzers alone!” They are sad apes that jizz in their frickin’ pants after all. You know how frickin’ sad I’d be if I jizzed in my trousers? Well…you’ll never know, because I don’t jizz in my frickin’ trousers.
But I am a sympathetic rick and I don’t want life to be any worse than it already is for the pantsjizzer crowd. They have my sympathy.
Unless they cross me, in which case it’s wildebeest time. But I’ll stay well clear of the trousers because I don’t want hairless ape jizz on my stylin’ suit. ROAR!!!
That said, I too don't blame her for getting up and leaving. She doesn't have to wiggle around on a wet spot. Dance over. I feel like the primer directive of LDKers should be not to get their jizz on the girl -- couldn't you wear a condom underneath or something?
You know what’s sadder than jizzin’ in your trousers? Puttin’ on a condom, puttin’ on pants over said condom, and then jizzin’ in said condom.
Let the pantsjizzers have a shred of dignity.
the only courtroom that might have tackle this case would've been judge jerry springer.
and question to the op: you already got off. what else did you want from the girl for the remaining 24 minutes of time?
If Jerry Springer had a show about dudes who didn't know how to get a proper lapdance with actual strippers to show them how it's done, it would have made the second best daytime talk show of all time even better.
It's simple to fix, just tell her you're about to come in your pants, and she will decide what her next move is.
Easy peasey.
Definitely disturbing as hell.
Nope. I'm trying to act like a guy who wants more than one dance/VIP from a hot dancer who is a lot of fun. To that end, I talk to her about what I want rather than startle her mid dance. This is especially important with new-to-me dancers.
It's easy to do and preempts this entire debate (and other issues beside that). So, why not just talk to the dancer?
Predictably hypocritical and tone-deaf.
Your logic is showing the basis for the disconnect here. You don't know anything about 99% of dancers, you've never met them. Perhaps 99% of dancers you have met think this, but if you haven't asked them you don't even know that much. And also, dancers are people. They like to know if they're grinding into a puddle of your bodily fluids.
I doubt a case would make it to court. But, the threat of a lawsuit or sexual assault case, would likely be enough to scare an LDK prone dude out of a strip club with a wet spot still in his pants!
The consent crowd smell this and don’t like it.
The “manners are for everybody” crowd also don’t like it.
Does cumming in your pants while a stripper is grinding on you without making sure she is OK with it make you an asshole? Yes, at least give her a little warning beforehand so she can choose whether she wants your cum all over her ass or not.
Is it likely to get you kicked out of the club? Maybe, depends on the approved mileage limits for the club.
Should you expect the dancer to keep grinding on you after you leave a wet spot on your crotch? Hell no, that is something that most dancers would find disgusting.
Is it fair to expect her to keep giving you an air dance for the rest of the time you had paid for? Maybe, but at the very least you need to give her time to go get cleaned up from the mess you made on her. I honestly can't see asking her to keep dancing for me after something like that personally, but I guess I can somewhat see an argument that could be made for it.
I rarely LDK these days, but every time I ever have I made sure to keep her well way from the wet spot. Common courtesy because it's a bodily fluid and I wouldn't want to be covered in anyone else's.
Last time I did, she told me she wanted me to cum for her and worked damn hard to. And I had to focus my thoughts to do so.
Probably the same sort of dark humor that got us calling ourselves Pathetic Losers.
Actually it was a certain member who insisted for months (or was it years?) that their namesake acronym get added to the TUSCL glossary. Like an active, very vocal campaign. It's one of the reasons I won't type it, because the whole thing was a little over the top and the term itself makes no sense.
I'm not going to invoke the name of another dude when discussing getting my nut, ever. The hobby already had enough cringe to it without introducing some random term that nobody off TUSCL would know.
You guys can have your fun and call it what you want.
Anyway, the righteous uppity crowd who think the way they’re having fun with strip clubs is running high I see. The ones who mostly oppose the LDK are also the ones bragging about how they can coerce a dancer outside of the working confines of the club to take care of their physical needs at some discreet location off grounds, and that mode is more manly than on site in your pants. Doesn’t matter where you nut, in her mouth off site (or in her pussy) your means are still way more morally and disgusting of an activity than a more harmless jizzed underwear seeker. Jizzing in the pants I can easily venture to say happens way more often in clubs than the otc trysts, and I can easily venture to say there is less emotional damage done to the provider giving LDK than compared to the emotional damage done to a dancer that has to stoop herself to the level of accepting a cash infusion by taking a naked pl to a hotel doing an act she would rather not go through if she could just do a handful of LDKs in exchange. Why all the hate for LDK, it’s not like the dude is jozzing on you, or the dancer, as long as it’s contained. You’ll never get an accurate consensus from the dancing community, but guaranteed that there are more LDK providers out there than there are otc supplemented dancer incomes. Take that to the bank!
And there have been enough threads on here (including this one) about dancers either being unhappy about it or avoiding it that it's pretty obvious that some significant percentage of dancers aren't on board.
So, just bring it up before buying dances. Easy peasy. After that, you can exit VIP wet to the knees for all I care.
I will play along and comment on your discussion.
Google says:
“Generally, sexual assault refers to any nonconsensual sexual act prohibited by state or federal law, including acts when the victim is unable to consent.”
You wrote that she said, and I quote:
“LDK without “consent” could be considered sexual assault”
She, the stripper, is not rong
@Mate: Are you channeling Icee now? Who said anything about coercing anyone to do anything? I can only speak for myself, but I have never, not once, run a hard sell on any girl. I just open the door with an opportunity. If she doesn't like the choice, she has ample other options to try to deal with whatever problem she is tackling. If she chooses to go OTC with me, it's about convenience, not some life or death situation.
I also disagree with your notion that a premature ejaculator is a lesser problem, especially when he's doing it by stealth (which is a lot of them). When a girl leaves the club with a guy, she's making an active choice. She said yes to both the guy himself and what he wishes to do. She did neither with the guy who secretly gets his jizz on her ass.
Nobody cares if them jizz in their pants, but stealth jizzing strippers is disgusting and shameful
I guess you asked them after how they felt about you jizzing on them? Was it an “oh daddy more come please” type response? Or maybe you sat them down before and said “so darlin’, I’m going to fill up my pants with matesperm halfway through this dance, and some of that is going to stick to your ass and pussy. Cool?”
The guys who try to tell others that they are worse for offering a dancer money to go OTC, aren’t making a logical argument.
The entire OTC experience is consentual. I’ve never ripped off my condom and jizzed on an unsuspecting stripper. That would be the only comparable way to engage in OTC that might approach a stealth pants jizzing.
When a guy says that grinding on my hard on through my pants is something that dancers know will make me cum, that’s not true. That is not a good argument.
It’s not that I think you are having fun the wrong way. I simply believe the dancer should be informed in advance that you can’t (or won’t) control your ejaculation, and you might cum in your pants while she grinds.
That’s cuter Drewcareypnw, how well you can master a standardized test. It only shows yiu can pay attention, but can’t pay attention to the more valuable material. I get it, I felt empowered too when I passed my CFA, one of the most challenging designations professionals can attain. I also got high and almighty when I graduated high school, college, and other levels of higher learning, but that’s all in the past now and I tend to lean mostly in common sense these days. You know, experience is the best teacher, and if you don’t know what you’re doing, yiu really should t be commenting about it. Stay in your lane. There are way more LDK providers than otc providers. Diffeeent game but different players, too.
There have been threads on LDK before, but this one has a twist. My take is the dancer intentionally tried to get you off quick to earn her $$$ in 5 minutes instead of 30. Then put you in your place with a comment about sexual assault when you questioned the time. Kind of aggressive on her part. She probably did that routine many times before. You didn't mention if there was a wet spot, which I'd agree is a key detail. I'd say chalk it up to experience and move on. You allowed her to finish you quick and should have known there was a chance she would end things after an LDK. Next time, negotiate up front that you want the full 30 minutes and to take things slow for the first 15-20.
Your common sense is just about on par with your spelling.
Cute! ;D
I've lost track of how many girls I've heard over the years come out of a VIP area disgusted by some guy who grabbed her hips to finish or otherwise just stayed silent as he blew his load. It's disgusting. There's a reason why we call the premature ejaculator's trip from the VIP area to the front door, as he tries to hide his wet spot, the "Walk of Shame."
I think Mate has run out of reasonable arguments to justify his behavior, and has resorted to baseless attacks against you and Drew Carey.
If he was a reasonable guy, he would own up to his behavior and begin to inform dancers before he ejaculates in his pants.
Telling us that 99% of strippers love it isn’t helping his argument. That’s simply what he wants to believe.
I reject your hypothesis.
I think the term for this is strawman argument. Cite a non-existent or extremely rare situation to attack in an attempt to make rubbing your splooge on a girl without her consent appear to be the lesser offense by comparison. You'll need to do better than that. 😉
Sincerely,
Your cute pal,
Free
That's the very definition of strawman Mate. Take an outrageous one-off event, which I posted about precisely because it was so outlandish and I was so thoroughly fooled until it was too late, and project it as the everyday event you're comparing it against. 😉
Oh, and when you follow up with the argument that almost every one of them came back to make you prematurely ejaculate again, it doesn't justify doing it the first time without consent.
I might have paraphrased this a little, but I think it's accurate overall. I'm remain not anti LDK, but I still believe that a customer should tell a dancer "Hey, this is a thing that might happen..." or "Hey, this is a thing I want to happen..." before the dance. Why is this so problematic?
If guys did that, then these threads and the follow-on drama would not exist.
If he believes the dancer wants him to cum in his pants, then there should be no issue for him to tell the dancer in advance (that he is prone to cuming in his pants). Then, if the dancer knows and moves forward, the consent could be implied.
If you're seriously defending your right to rub your splooge on a girl without her consent, then you're a jerkoff.
If you're doing this to troll others, then you're a Grade A jerkoff with a meaningless existence.
But either way you're a jerkoff. Stop digging yourself in any more than you already have.
What the actual fuck? You are about 2 steps from the “he’s a rapist crew” descending upon you. And that is not pretty. Do yourself a favor and shut the hell up!
Pro tip for you: in the REAL WORLD, people ask before jizzing on someone, and "gets consent" is not the same as "prude".
Look, here’s another fellow LDK-er firmly lauding his in the club experience without shame. Maybe we all should villify him for his act of non consent in the lap dance area. Looks like he is a repeat offender in cold weather territory. Your strawman argument that it places some type of assault or poor judgement is simply false in order to make yourself appear mightier than those who have fun in the most harmless way. Again, more dancers provide LDK services than otc, so prove me rong! I’m waiting….
Finding another jerkoff who thinks its OK to rub his jizz on an unsuspecting girl doesn't make you more right, it just means that two of you are wrong.
But by all means continue...
"Phrasing!" #Archer
I don't know. It hasn't held me back. The worst that's happened is I tell a dancer what I want, she tells me it's not on her menu, and we both move on without any bad feelings. Or, I still think she's really hot and I decide that I want what she offers and pay her for it. But, more often than not I find a hot dancer who offers what I want. So...[shrug].
And, I mean, talking to a dancer up front is just smart when you're going from "Hi, I'm Joe Horny." to naked to orgasm with a complete stranger in a super abbreviated amount of time. I'm still waiting for someone to tell me why it's a problem. Again, it's not really about "sexual assault" so much as not being a dick and avoiding avoidable drama.
It can also not be challenged that I am the most fuckable man in America. Sorry, not sorry, that women like to do those things we men like about women. They just happily oblige to do them for me without me having to prompt them, but I understand none of you have the game to know what that’s like, so you only surmise it’s not possible there’s a market out there for guys like me who don’t have to beg for action. Look, I get it! You don’t know, what you don’t know. For that, I’m grateful for leading a life of leisure when it comes to the bounty of pretty sexy women, and you got to do some sort of dance like a peacock does. Rotflmfao!!
A minor point, but LDKs are not always "premature". It's sometimes the objective of the dancer, the customer, or both.
More important, LDKs do not always result in a wet spot. They might, they might not, especially in the immediate aftermath, when the guy signals the dancer can stop, and she does. Rick seems insistent on equating the two in every post, and then getting jizz on a dancer without her consent, but that's just not the case with all LDKs.
To waste trying to save some junkie whore from a low paying stripper job having a hard time making a liveable wage ITC she needs to resort
To supplement her income on the outside. I get it, sometimes yiu have to swim with sharks but for my time, I can be at home insourcing important decisions on managing my life than spending it with drug addicted stripper hoes! Rotflmfao!! The sole anti LDK crowd really have a weak basis to stand on, more like a pity hustle. Lol!
Sexual harassment and you! The attached video needs to be viewed by the woke anti LDK crowd to understand they need to be less like Fred Armisen, and more like Tom Brady. I get it! You don’t get it, and have to pay for some extra one on one time at a discrete location in a random hotel room. Hey, that’s your gig and there’s should be no shame in your game. Not everyone can pull game ITC so they have to bait and lure their prey outside of the comfort of their environs. I get it! You don’t get it, so you have to level out the playing field by dividing in order to conquer your prey otc. I get it! You don’t get it, so you have to run a smash and grab outfit coercing dancers outside the club with promises of a cash infusion. I get it! You don’t get it, because yiu look like Fred Armisen, and not Tom Brady. Lmfaorotf!!