Asking this question straight up. No backstory for now. I'll even leave this thread in the Front Room so the noobs and riff raff can join in lol.
If your ATF is still in the game, but arguably is no longer the Current Fav, can she lose her ATF status if her peak is still the best experience you've ever had in the hobby?
I may be missing something here, but from a logic perspective if the current time is a subset of all time, then she cannot be your ATF if she is not your current favorite. If it was really "all" time, then that would include this time. Right? But then again, if she was your ATF, fell from grace for some reason, and you have moved on to greener pastures, "ATF" could have been better at her peak than the CF is at her current peak. Which brings us back to time... clearly she is not a favorite now, so she isn't your favorite for all time. But maybe the term is flawed, PL's frequently use ATF to talk about someone who was great at some point, but is not available for some reason now... moved on, got out of dancing, got fat, etc., leaving them to CF's. Maybe a better term would be something like All Time High Scoring Dancer.
It's also possible that we put too much thought into this...
I’m a go with the too much thought group
I'd call that more like "probable" 😂
i can't say that i have an atf over the years. there's just too many to choose from to narrow it down to that specific special one.
but i do allocate atf status on a club by club basis.
I would always compare all my regulars to each other at their peak. I knew my ATF from when she was a popular 23-year-old dancer to when she was a 30-year-old who was largely ignored by the customers and couldn't make any money and had to quit. When their looks decline, I usually stick with my regulars because by then it's a little like seeing an old friend. I was still seeing my ATF as a 30-year-old even though by that time I could easily have found younger and prettier dancers.
All-Time in American English ADJECTIVE unsurpassed up to the present time Example: an all-time record
ATF a stripper that to a customer/tuscler is the best he has had up to the present time, not necessary the Current Favorite, because she might have retired, moved, died.
I change girls constantly. So I always think about how she was when she and I were an item. So when I rank them to figure out an ATF, then I'm gonna thing about her as she was then. I have seen a few girls years after that time. I'm not sure I would even go out with them then, much less rank them as ATF.
But that's me.
"It's also possible that we put too much thought into this..."
I'll take this one as a joke.
"I’m a go with the too much thought group"
"I'd call that more like 'probable'"
Now that's just piling on lol.
Backstory #2 for no one in particular...It would be easy to reply with a "would we all rather talk about what pants to wear to a club for the 1000th time" or something off topic, but that's just being obvious. So I'll just say "maybe". But sometimes I think about how 20-something me saw the hobby and lol. At both the good and bad. Something like how warrior wrote the other day about re-reading his old reviews. tuscl.net
Hell, I can go back and read what 20-ish wallanon said on TUSCL. All due respect, but some of you were already "old" before you ever got here. So sometimes I'll just offer up something for the younguns. It's fun to see them talk like they've got life figured out, but that doesn't mean the more experienced guys can't toss out some food for thought.
And by the time I was done typing all that Warrior15 had already weighed in lol...
I think how we look back on the dancers we've known is interesting, regardless of it being a good or bad experience.
But it is to some degree a bit of pervert navel gazing.
CF and ATF are TUSCL-specific terms that people tend to define according to their own preferences at the time.
I tend to group dancers as "This is great!" or "Not all of my decisions are good decisions." But there's no hand acronyms there.
*handy
"hand acronyms"
Lol. I know it's a typo, but that sounds like something a guy needs to pay extra for.
"CF and ATF are TUSCL-specific terms that people tend to define according to their own preferences at the time."
I've actually heard guys refer to their all time favorite dancers IRL who I don't think were TUSCLers. All guys might not have one, but those that do will know them when they see them.
My ATF is exactly that. She’s retired but I can’t imagine anyone could ever replace her. She really was a physical “10”
But there was more to it than just her beauty
I suppose my situation is somewhat atypical, but I can honestly not see anyone taking my ATF's place as "All Time Favorite." My own emotions surrounding that whole relationship, and the way it was ended, belike make that impossible.
Rate her in real time. But make a mental note of her at her peak coz that's her potential
My ATF has long retired. While a few dancers came close, no one has ticked off all the things I look for in woman like she did. From the first time I got a dance from her around 1996, until she retired over 11 years later in 2008, not once did she stray from being the most fun dancer at any club. The first time I got a dance with her, she was a hot young and experienced dancer in her mid twenties, and when she retired she was still at the top of her game, and looking better than most dancers in their early twenties.
She is the only dancer to this day:
Na I do peak. Do we remember Willy Mays based off what he did as a Met or a Giant?
#1 - We are absolutely putting too much thought into this. But I'll indulge anyway.
I take ATF to mean all time favorite. I see no reason your ATF can't have been replaced with a new CF, or current favorite, while still remaining your ATF. Sports figures are a great example, many all time greats were not the best player on the field/court towards the end of their careers. But few would argue the younger guys had taken over as the GOAT. I hate Tom Brady, but its hard to argue he's not the GOAT or at least a strong contender in the conversation. But I'd take Pat Mahomes over him on my team today without a moments hesitation, but I call you an ignorant simpleton if you tried to argue Mahomes was the GOAT.
At the same time, and using similar logic, the ATF gets that title not from a single performance or an absolute peak. It's across a body of work. If I were to choose an ATF it would be a girl who maybe wasn't the single lay best I've ever had, but rather one who delivered many stellar performances, was entertaining to be around when we weren't fucking, was available and reliable, etc. There's other ways to describe the hottest stripper ever, or the best sex ever, or other one-time superlatives.
Well, this is entirely hypothetical but certainly an ATF can be exceeded by a new girl. I think the question is can an ATF fall off so much that she regresses behind the ATF2? I think that would be unlikely but not impossible. She’d really have to throw a garbage can of shit on our time to make me forget previous glory. Very unlikely but not impossible.
IMO and IME yes, an ATF can still be in the business but not be your CF. The alternative is that you have a strip club wife until she retires. I know that some around here crave that exact level of consistency, but not me.
My ATF kept my interest for longer than any other OTC friend ever has, which is saying something. She commanded the bulk of my OTC spending for an entire year. She was a sexy, seductive, bright and beautiful full blooded Italian girl- just downright craveable in every way. She was also great in bed.
But every train ride has to end eventually. These "relationships" are not designed to be permanent. I had a lot of rapport with her, but even still a connection built primarily upon money for sex will have an expiration date. We were never going to invite each other to our life events and she would eventually move on from the business.
So when things started to get stale, I sought my fun elsewhere, even though she continued to dance for several more months. But until another girl can keep my attention for that long and bring me the enjoyment that she did during the peak of our OTC adventures, she will always be my ATF.
"I would always compare all my regulars to each other at their peak."
This is usually how I go about it, like doc savage said. But what I'm reconsidering is how I weigh the different factors of who's on top. Maybe I just got it "wrong" with ATF #4, which is funny in itself because it's totally subjective. I'm thinking a retcon might be in order lol. Backstory #1 got a little long to drop here, so I'll put that in another thread.
Hello to all the Noobs. Greetings from 2022.
If you ever get confused about the difference between a Current Favorite (CF) and an All Time Favorite (ATF), the TUSCLers have just given you all the information you need to sort that out. You're welcome.
It's the same with sports.
The best of all-time is not necessarily the best at every point of the career or best single performance ever. The greatest of all-time is the overall body of work.
Tom Brady may not be the best QB this year...but that doesn't mean suddenly he's not the all-time best.
My ATF didn’t live to see 30 so she is frozen in time and no one can compete with a memory. I still remember the first time I laid eyes on her and later when I bathed her shortly before the end.
She was crashing and burning from the start, so to speak in terms of peaking seems wrong but she was always absolutely gorgeous and the times we had together over the years were an incredibly wild ride. I don’t know if I was more of an enabler or a lifeline. Así es la vida.
Ok. This was a downer. But that's why we have the discussion boards. The situation there sounds pretty intense. I've seen a dancer or two take a downward spiral, but suppose I'm not the sort of customer to go down with the ship.
One time I helped a dancer get her health right, but that's one girl out of a lot of looking the other way. Another time I almost helped a girl fix her meth mouth, but luckily some other sucker came along and decided to be her sugar daddy. I knew her before the drug problem and she was basically a 10, so I almost went for it when she came asking for help.
But anyway she dropped the daddy after her teeth got fixed, and was trying to get back in my lineup cause all of a sudden her bills weren't magically getting paid. By then her bff was my ATF #3.
===> "I've seen a dancer or two take a downward spiral, but suppose I'm not the sort of customer to go down with the ship."
This 100 times. I suspect that the same guys who enjoy having strip club wives are also the types who don't mind - and maybe even enjoy - getting involved in excess life drama with these girls. Like I always say, I'll never criticize how another man spends his time and money, but I already have too much drama in my life to shoulder anyone else's.
It is always and forever a matter of perspective. They and we are temporary stops in each others' lives. We're also the perverts trying to get into their pants. This is not a healthy backdrop for a mentor/mentee relationship. You can be a source of comfort and moral support or you can be yet another much older guy trying to fuck her - you can't be both. There is no such thing as the Noble Pervert.
For these reasons, my speedboat is ever ready to whisk me away from the ship at the first sign of distress. Don't get me wrong, I don't mind a girl who shares real life stories with me while we are together. Indeed I prefer it to the fake bubbly nonsense. Where I draw the line is when the girl tries to make me a participant in her drama or tries to use it to excuse bad behavior.
My ATF is “currently” retired, but we know how that works sometimes. My ATF was a little unstable — mostly from an unstable upbringing (and abusive husband) and past substance abuse. I’m happy that she’s a civvie now, and more stable. I don’t think she will ever be dethroned as my ATF. My VIP sessions with her were incredible and not likely surpassed by future dancers. We had a connection (at least in my mind) that many of us search for in TUSCL Land.
^ That's just saying the crazy chics are Hot AF 🤣🤣🤣
As my time as my time as a PL comes to an end it would be impossible to replace my ATF. First off, I doubt I have 14 years to live so no one is catching her for longevity; secondly, I don't have the same interest in sex at 65 at and lastly, it keeps getting harder to drive by poker in the casino for naked women. She is safe, frozen in time 1 week before the pandemic, where she will remain.
My ATF for 4 years is still going strong. January 2023 will be two (2) years since SHE asked me to do to OTC. I had given up asking her to do OTC, because her answer was always a "I don't do that / I am not that type of girl". Since then, I have went from 4 (ATF's / CF's) down to two ATF's seeing #2 only about 2-3 times per year. We renew our vows every year in December / January and ironically just did tonight as she is flying out to Vegas in the morning. Neither of us know exactly where it is going, or for how long, but her dedication to me seems to be getting more intense every few months. She has gone from working the club 3 days per week down to a few days every few months, just to keep in contact with friends etc. We have a long distance relationship, but we spend a shit load of time together virtually at night, via FaceTime, while I am in the hotel since I work on the road. She owns her own house, only has a few bills, her vehicle is paid off, No Drug habit other than weed, as she graciously accepts her $1000 per month allowance for Gas and Essentials. Each Hotel meeting (6-8 hours) she receives $1000 Cash plus a tank of Gas for her travel time to meet me. She has Spring & Fall wardrobe needs, which cost in the neighborhood of $1000 per season. Never spent like this on an ATF before, but we both seem happy with the relationship, I still have a growing Bank account, and I have realized that life is short and you can't take anything with you.... I think I have a keeper..........Plus she doesn't have any Tattoos
dirtyburt if you're happy with the arrangement that's what counts. And you're right, life goes by. May as well live it.
Average over time ... if I think back on the entirety of our experience together and, as a whole, it's still the best I've ever had with a dancer, then she would remain my ATF even though she's not a CF.
I don't have an ATF. I still have enough years yet where it feels premature to apply the "all time" in ATF. Right now I have a couple of CFs and a CF+, but I'm a glass-half-full kind of guy. It's always possible to find a dancer who scores a few points higher.