No, being old and white doesn’t make you the customer almighty automatically
…unless you are actually spending money.I was going to reply in another thread but figured that the subject deserves its own space. And I quote:
—>“It's also completely logical for pretty young females to not want to spend their time with boring old men and to want to spend it with charming young good-looking guys. I understand that. If they do that, though, they should not expect the men they shun to pay for their college with their taxes. “
I’m addressing this because this isn’t the first time I’ve seen these types of comments on the board.
I will let you guys in on a secret: younger guys spend money at the clubs as well. Especially for us dancers who prefer to work the room and not just sit with one guy for a long freaking time in the hopes of a larger sale. Younger males hate socializing, so I can start saying “hi” and they are often immediately ready for a dance soon after. Including at clubs where the dance price is $40 or $100 for a single song. Younger guys I’ve also noticed tend to say less stupid things, such as bragging about their money and pitching outside the club services…without wanting to spend. Or other entitled nonsense.
The main downside is some guys closer to my age definitely have a barely legal fetish which makes things weird. Like a couple of them I accidentally tell them my age because I was drinking and not thinking or something and their interest in me suddenly goes way cold. So I have to remember to lie. Whereas a lot of older customers actually prefer my age. It’s annoying, but at least the fast sale potential is still there as long as I’m lying.
Gen Z guys I have even less beef with. They are the most straightforward guys of all. They either spend immediately or the most straightforward furniture. Except a lot of them are so nice I actually feel guilty when I act like if they buy more dances I might consider going on a date with them. Unlike a lot of older customers, I think they believe me. 😐 (but if he’s from the club I’ll go out with a 23 year old over a fellow 29 year old anytime—why do guys born closer to my year have to be weirdos?!)
A lot of them also tip more on stage. One time I was at a club, and there was one older white guy there sitting at the stage. There is no tip there so I walk by and do a pole spin. There was a whole group of 20/30something year olds, like maybe 5 of them? Collectively they probably put like $50-$70 on stage throughout my set? Naturally, my attention was on them. I peek behind occasionally and see no tip money. Cool, will keep talking to/motorboating/etc the guys tipping me. . Finally on the last song I see $2, so okay I’ll walk over and briefly acknowledge (figured if he was actually going to tip this late, maybe he was going to ask for a dance)). I smile and briefly do a mini dance and then he screams out “oh finally, you can actually get away from these young guys!” I had no words for him, so I immediately walked back. Asked who wanted a dance. A couple of them would end up getting some.
Older guys often require more time and attention, and push back against “wanna dance” type of stuff. So sorry, if I’m in a crowded room and I’m overwhelmed by people and I’m absolutely going to prioritize the likely quicker sale. I talk to older guys plenty, at slower times. Granted, older customers are more likely to become regulars and be a stable source of money in the future, I’ll admit that. But of all the old white guys I’ve interacted with who have turned into regulars that’s probably like less than 1%? That’s a numbers game I’ll play when I feel like playing, thanks. There are more than plenty of slow shifts out there to make that happen.
…fellow dancers are encouraged to comment on this thread because I’m sure our opinions are all over the map here.
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111 comments
Ooh! And while I’m still in vent-mode, I just remembered the time I was actually pretty busy that day. There’s one older white guy at a table and yeah I can see him checking out my stage set the two times I went up while he was there. But other people (30something year old Mexicans) would actually walk up and tip me, and I’d ask for a dance and they would say yes. So I happened to be busy that day.
Then when I finally free up, he makes eye contact with me. I walk over to him. Then he lectures me that he was waiting for me to approach him this whole time, but he has to go now. He really showed me 🙄 Um sir, if you were looking at me me then couldn’t you tell that I was occupied? I have no problems dancing for customers who have melanin
@Nice Maybe surface money I could see but I ain’t buying you can dig deep on a Gen Z guy like you could an older dude barring your not in some weird tech city, which you actually were in at one point. That dance that 20 year old kid just gave you was his hot pocket money for the week he just said fuck it on.
The correct response when a service provider doesn’t meet expectations is to shrug your shoulders and find another provider. Shit happens.
What about us middle age guys in our 40s or 50s? We can offer some of the best aspects of both the old geezers and young bucks. We have more disposable income than the 20-somethings and we are in more of a rush to get dances than the retirees since we have other responsibilities to attend to so we don't need the hour long slow sales pitch. This can lead to either a series of multiple dances or a more lucrative VIP room session with just a minimal sales pitch.
Who am I kidding, the dancers probably lump anyone like me who is 40+ into the old geezers category.
From what I've known they have a reputation for being cheap and overly demanding. And many are laughed at. Girls will make fun of girls who put up with them.
And ones I've seen come in during dayshift. Try to spend as little as possible. Want ldks and leave or fall asleep.
fair enough muddy. but it won't be that easy. the she-trolls i bash drew first blood and i'm having a great time discouraging bad dancer behavior.
i'll accept sincere public apologies and no further disrespect to men on this forum. otherwise i'm just getting started and it's only gonna get worse. this is a one-time offer (but i'm betting they actually loving the attention).
You quoted me so I assume you are referring to me here. Anyone who wants to can click on my name, look at my comments, and see I don't think strippers should pay attention to me just because I'm old. They should pay attention to me if they want my money, but they are free to ignore me if they want.
In the last discussion I posted here, I mentioned I let a stripper keep her robe on during our lap dance because she was cold. Look it up. Does this sound like a demanding old man? My current favorite recently told me she always has a feeling of relief when I walk in the door because I never cause her any trouble. Many commenters here would consider me a "chump" because I spend money and only expect lap dances. I club in a city in which strippers often get fired for doing in the club extras and I like strippers and don't want to see them get fired so I don't ask for that.
In my last comment you quoted from, I expressed sympathy for young people and the country they are inheriting. I have not seen you show any sympathy at all for people who are forced to pay for the college degrees of others. I'm totally used to that sort of thing. People who support themselves instead of expecting others to support them never get any sympathy or appreciation. Unfortunately, every year there are fewer people who are self-supporting. This is leading us into an economic crisis. The only future choices we have now are whether we have runaway inflation or have something like the Great Depression but worse.
As a painfully self-aware old(-ish per Whodey's description) white guy, I have to agree with Spice's rant. I tip well (staff and dancers) and am polite to everyone, and have been told repeatedly that I'm unusual that way.
Also, as Mark said, it's a business. Do you (the general you) go out of your way to antagonize your waitress or HR rep? Not if you have any sense of self-preservation. Treat SWers the same, fellow PLs.
“Except a lot of them are so nice I actually feel guilty when I act like if they buy more dances I might consider going on a date with them. Unlike a lot of older customers, I think they believe me. 😐 (but if he’s from the club I’ll go out with a 23 year old over a fellow 29 year old anytime—“
How do you act like you’d go on a date with them if they spend more? Also how do you know they want this? Ive spent thousands on strippers, would spend thousands on certain pornstars and escorts but wouldn’t consider dating them in an exclusive relationship. Are there actually people buying dances from strippers thinking that it’ll help them date the stripper or something? That’s laughable and sad.
The only relationship id enter into with an escort pornstar or stripper would be a secret open relationship. My family and professional contacts don’t know about it, and it’s open
Icee I thought the older men are bigger spenders and the indian asian men stereotype is they spend less?
All information is good information. A wanna dance girl is usually a wanna dance girl for a reason, IME most often because she struggles with prolonged interactions. Girls who gravitate to younger guys are also telling you something about their motivations and preferences. Be grateful when these girls don't try to fight their natural preferences - IME rarely do interactions with emotionally challenged dancers go well.
A club crew is always going to be comprised of various personality types and sometimes they'll skew a certain way. When a night is not going how you hope, there are always other girls, other clubs and, in the worst case, other nights.
And why the hell would some of you event want to drive dancers away from this forum?
Btw it is racist to say X race person acts this way.
Its ageist to say it about someone’s age but at least everyone goes through the age stages
Dancers get laughed at and called broke for being desperate enough to deal with them coz they're time wasters.
This is my favorite thread nicespice is just saying what I've said about old tricks since day 1
Question homie, what's concrete 6jinking?
You're coming off as severely retarded lulz
Sometimes it may seem that what they want is excessive. Well that is just the market. We need more strip clubs, or better these Private Party / Membership Club Venues.
If on the other hand you are prepared to engage with strippers, and you like strippers, then by all means. Buying dances is a Chumps Game, but money was invented for handing to women. So pick the one you want and try to get her on the fast track to the bedroom, with of course FRMOS and then the backroom maximum. If you have planned what you are going to say to the girl of your choice, you should be able to make everything happen with her with a minimum of talk time. You'll have plenty of bedroom time to talk to her between rounds soon.
And FWIW, in the organization I am building the women are always extremely well taken care of, and they have been fully trained and initiated as sex slaves. They know that they are to make you know that you are King of the World and that all women are to give you sexual pleasure.
Thanks Nicespice for starting this thread so that the various parties can air their views.
SJG
Emily Williams
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HX00cSNw…
Archie Bell and The Drells
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=agclATD-…
Speaking of severely retarded........
But I’m a laid back type, and while I wish I was more of a pushy biatch like that I am not. So no all-or-nothing demands from me. But in turn, I expect the same treatment from customers. And I have no problem with customers of all types of demographics.
Btw my definition of “old white guy” for the purposes of this thread is like…45 or 50? Yes, I get that’s technically middle aged, but that’s old enough for somebody to develop a “I deserve extra special treatment because I’m an older white person” complex if they are going to have one.
And in response to an earlier comment, yes Gen Z will spend. Maybe not 1k, but $100-$400 is not uncommon. I don’t question their source of money but I assume it’s from their parents. Which is fine with me.
She will be getting groomed for the organization. Meeting other people will be key. Then setting up an interview with a panel of the women, then with a panel of the men.
She does not have to agree to this right off. Could take years. With some they will be reaching stripper/escort retirement age when they decide to accept. That will be fine.
But hopefully she will eventually decide to go along with it, and then her formal instruction and sex slave initiation can be set up.
Going our way will always be better than anything she could likely come up with on her own. Better than Sex Work, Marriage, or Entrepreneurship on her own.
SJG
Well that probably captures almost everyone who participates on this board - definitely including me. 😉
Not I certainly understand being comfortable in my own skin and generally confident in a club, but I certainly have no sense of self-entitlement. I don't spend even a second wondering why any girl decides to focus on younger dudes and/or just "wanna dances" me. I do notice it, but beyond attaching a mental "not worth my attention" tag on her and then moving my attention elsewhere, I don't give it much thought. Not only because she doesn't want my attention anyway, but because she's probably not going to be around the club long anyway. The next time I see her, I almost always remember the "not worth my attention" tag - though often not why lol - and proceed accordingly.
The most difficult clubs to get the girls off script are usually DV, like their San Francisco flagship Centerfolds. But it still can be done.
As far as guys thinking they are customer almighty, that is not good. In strip clubs money is essential. But if you select and approach the girl you want, there is a good chance she can really be opened up to you. It might take time, like at DV centerfolds, and that makes it take even more money. But it generally still can be done.
Guys are just dumb in that they decline to approach dancers, and they get shunted into buying dances, mostly because they have never thought it through.
Generosity yes, but buying dances no.
SJG
Great White
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3oe-aPYs…
Most of their discussions are bitching about dancers not being hoes not doing what they say and complaining about prices
But also consider this: Most clubs in most places are slower on weekday nights. If a girl is going to make a consistent living from any club, she can't just count on one or two busy nights a week. That's OK for dayjob girls and tourist dancers, but not so much for those who dance F/T. This is especially true now, with business travel still depressed and a lot of guys still not going back to their offices in bigger cities.
So when I encounter a dancer who struggles to interact with guys or who otherwise doesn't seem terribly motived, my mind immediately slots her into that "dayjob girl/tourist dancer" bucket and moves on. She won't be around for long anyway, so she's not worth my attention. I don't even do it consciously anymore - it's pure reflex at this point. I prefer to direct my spending to girls who seem committed to what they are doing.
You have literally brought up, “young guys” more than once. Unless I’m confusing you with somebody else…?
@Muddy I’ve had positive experiences with zoomers in in multiple states. In Portland tho even with them I had to slow down on the young guys there. Yeah, I know I said what I said about student loan discharging in that other thread but if I’m in the club but you know what disregard what I say and I 100% want crybaby progressives to pull themselves up by their bootstraps and believe in hard work and they have no rights to demand forgiveness.
The most mind boggling personal experience I had with zoomers was in this college town where I happened to go to school several years prior. And I danced out there for the heck of it. I remember how my fellow students were back then when I was out and about on campus or house parties or regular bars. Can’t compare strip club behavior apples to apples because I wasn’t dancing back then, but from what I saw those those guys were a whole different breed of male than my peers. Like if I had been born 5-9 years younger, I don’t know whether I’d have even started dancing because somebody might have just been waaay too sweet and I’d be in some kind of loving relationship and discouraged from dancing in the titty bar in the first place. Idk.
Also, seasonal considerations exist everywhere. Summer is slower in a lot of areas, as are some holiday periods. There are also times when clubs are slower than normal on a weekend night due to other local events, such as sporting events, concerts and other entertainment events.
Net-net relying upon two nights per week for your living rarely works out for long. If a girl can't find a way to earn during slower periods, she's going to be in trouble sooner or later.
To be honest, I'm skeptical that the percentage of men creepy around strippers dropped from 50+% to 0% between Millenials and Zoomers. One trick is to say you're tired of getting dogged at the bar/Starbucks/the mall/wherever. Would he please come with and hang with you so you don't get hit on. Less risk of drama if it turns out no chemistry if the date is a non-date.
But a girl can make enough money working one or two days a week. I guess it depends where you are and the club but it's very doable.
A weekend in Vegas is good. And in la working a party night or two can make a girl 2k a week easily.
Of course the girl has to look good and hustle
Remember the club also takes a cut.
Even making 1k on a friday or Saturday night is difficult for a lot of dancers. An above average friday or Saturday is 1k. The average might be $500 a night on weekends.
Icee why is there not as much being spent now vs a few months ago? Whats changed?
I was wondering if some old white guys acted weird and entitled with me for being an "undesirable" white foreign looking bitch but nevermind. Seems a lot of them are weird with every type of girl.
Blahblah thats in a lot of places. Clubs with weekly parties are the best money makers. And touristy ones during conventions etc. Girls are getting used to less money though. Which is fucked up.
More of a rush? Heck, I'm 71! I could keel over any minute now! 😜
Actually you're wrong Icee...yet again. As someone who has clubbed all over the country and researched their locations in almost every state, I'd be surprised if 10% of the clubs listed on this site are in what anyone would consider to be large urban markets. The rest are scattered in small cities and towns all over the country.
But even in those large urban markets, you'd be foolish to pin your existence on 2 shifts per week, especially now for all of the reasons discussed above. IME almost any girl who is dancing that little either has a vanilla job to supplement or reduced expenses (living with relative, in school with room and board covered, etc.).
Btw what about the side hustles and side businesses? Is it something every most strippers have going on. It seems like the ones with a decent enough side hustle are less likely to offer OTC? Also someone I know claims strippers are unable to do regular jobs. What’s the reasoning for that, like a retail type job shouldn’t be that difficult it just doesn’t pay much
1 They get money but somebody else gets more
2. Nobody gets anything
A surprisingly high number choose 2
But I know girls making a nice living working one or two nights a week just doing weekly parties at clubs. They can make up to 6k a week doing those but average like 3k. That's in LA.
In Vegas a weekend at a touristy club can be enough to not have to bother with the week. Although that's probably going to change depending on the economy the next few months. But the vegas mantra seems to be pussy sells
That's interesting, so is this why sj turned sjgay?
Having said this, both from reading SW in the past, and dancers I’ve talked to, as well as my personal experience; overall I’ve heard more complaints w.r.t. younger guys – such as:
+ they are at the club more to party than to spend
+ the younger-guys tend to be the ones that wanna ask for (real/nonpaid) dates
+ I’ve often heard from dancers that older-guys tend to be more respectful and younger guys more aggressive – of course this is not universal but it is part of nature that younger-males will usually be more aggressive in general
I’ve posted in the past that I started SCing somewhat-regularly at age 30 and how if I hit a particular club or a particular time where there were older guys, that is was more common for me to be passed-up for the older guys (assuming we were both dressed the same – actually pre-TUSCL I would dress better in the club usually business-casual).
I also think that most of us that have been clubbing for a good # of years, we likely tend to spend more in our later years for various reasons (more established economically and in our careers etc; usually more established financially overall in life; i.e. college debt is likely a thing of the past; the older guys have already owned a home for many years and not trying to save up a big-down-payment for a home; etc).
This doesn’t mean that dealing w/ older-custies doesn’t have any downsides – at the very-least there is a generational-divide - as an older-custy one is not only older but one will usually think/feel differently that when in his 20s - older custies also grew-up in a different (pre-hip-hop) era w/ different social-norms thus many younger-dancers may have a hard-time understanding older-custies and vice-versa.
At the end of the day, just like there isn’t a specific type of dancer for all PLs, there isn’t a specific type of custy for all dancers – some dancers can’t stand the young-guys; and some dancers can’t stand the old guys – a strip-club is not a perfect ecosystem and it's a bit of a no-man’s-land and as long as P4P remains illegal I think most clubs will continue to be a crapshoot when it comes to functioning at their best.
They really do seem to think they should be able to get whatever they want on demand. They are actually every bit as bad as Generation Z. Every boomer should be paired with Gen Z, maybe add in a Millennial, to see who kills the other or offs themselves first. That would clear the way for us Gen X'ers to actually get shit done.
In my view, a customer can talk with a dancer to tell her he wants to buy dances - or he can tip her so she knows you like her stage work (hoping she will come by so you can buy dances from her.
And nicespice I feel like those weird anime guys, like heaving, they must fucking love you. I don't think that crowd would be older.
As for weird anime guys. Yeah some love me. Some are pedo dudes who follow red pill stuff and believe women go through menopause at the age of 25 or something. And some would just be really offended I haven’t watched any Dragon Ball Super episodes yet despite that the show has been done with for four years now
…unless you are actually spending money.”
nicespice, you are right.
It isn't. Or at least it shouldn't be.
This is nothing more than a thread started by a girl looking to rationalize how she manages her extreme coping limitations ITC and too many old dudes who are taking it far too personally.
Unfortunately this same behavior plays out in clubs all over the country on any given night. Almost every girl has some number of girls with different coping challenges. It often plays out in who they choose to approach or if they bother to approach anyone at all. But instead of recognizing this for what it is, we hear endless complaints about girls who prefer young guys, or are "locked down" by regulars, or who sit on their phones, etc., etc.
Granted nice's limitations are just...extreme, but it's still nothing more than a variation of the same underlying issues. Rather than fixating on it, guys would be much better off just acknowledging saying "go yee forth" and focusing their efforts on the girls who want to be fondled by them. But to each his own I suppose.
queencarmen for president.
A relevant thing with this is when the PL assumes dancers have no self-respect. There's the judgmental flavor and the pitying flavor. Maybe older PLs are more likely to make this assumption. Maybe younger PLs are more likely to be the pitying/white knight type.
For example, many of us have sat with a girl who is getting ye ol' death stare from some desperate jerkoff with a few 20s burning a hole in his pocket. Then there are the guys who try to hide their impatience, but you can see them constantly looking over and sometimes they get so desperate that they eventually try to interrupt.
Then there is the girl who has historically avoid you for one reason or another, but the club is slow as fuck and she realizes that if she wants to make any money she needs to switch gears. So she makes the attempt, but you can tell from her body language and difficulty in communicating that she's not in her comfort zone. There's nothing worse than those "I want to chew my own arm off just to escape the bear trap" moments with those types of girls. I try to be as nice as possible, but I inevitably send them away quickly.
So if we learn of a strip club dancer and decide that we want her. Well select some to try a crack at her. We will send guys with a prove track record of getting to women. We will try to figure what kind of a guy she would go for. We will even find guys of am MBTI compatible with her.
If she rebuffs one, he will be debriefed for what he learned about her and what his impressions are.
Then send the next.
One way or another, someone will get to her.
And then very soon she'll be getting instructed and measured for her first set of slave uniforms.
She doesn't ever have to even meet me. I'll be looking for those I can move into administrative roles anyway.
SJG
The Org is coming along fine. Mostly I want to have it going well during my life time and with plans for orderly succession. It takes time, because it relates to social, political, and financial power.
And if there is a strip club dancer that we want, we can make it happen. Soon she'll be getting measured for her first set of slave uniforms.
SJG
SJG
The people that are idiots are the neoliberals like Gavin Newsom.
SJG
Either you are
1) admitting you are too broke to spend money at the club
2) Have no intention of spending and you like to string along those poor dancers with the little carrot of the belief that they will make money, then you plan on pulling the rug out from under them.
3) Your reading comprehension is at elementary school level because Nicespice went harder after us millennials than boomers.
Go back to school boomers. You flunked out
SJG
SJG