Hypocrisy when dealing with strippers vs. "normal" girls?

Rick, you have summed up the conundrum of every PL of faith out there.

And that conundrum also affects dancers! I've met dancers who are practicing Catholics, Methodists, and even a Baptist and a Muslim.

It is the second biggest reason that I don't go looking for sex. However, that doesn't mean that I would be invulnerable to the charms of a very few dancers if they were to ask me,....🙄

What if you saw a girl from the club in church?

👆👆👆👆

Rick, I think you're minimizing the social context here. I mean, church vs strip club is not like, north side of the street vs south side of the street, where it doesn't make sense you'd treat people differently.

Church social context is about ethics (or the illusion thereof), and has a very strong social bonding component built around honesty and caring (or the illusion thereof). This is your tribe.

From the moment you walk into a strip club, the atmosphere is more about how everyone can get over on you. From parking fees to overpriced fake dancer drinks to the DJ cutting off songs so there's really no such thing as a 2-for-1, to strippers running myriad hustles on customers (and vice versa), this is not your tribe. This is a group of people who have something you want, and if you let them, will trick you into giving them all your money without letting you have it -- and, of course, vice versa.

Anyway, of course you're going to treat someone of your tribe differently than someone who is from a group that is known to use manipulation of feelings and sympathy to get help.

-->"What if you saw a girl from the club in church?"

I don't go to church, but even if I did, I don't need to meet a stripper in church to treat her differently. Once I get an ATF and we transition to something more like an arrangement, I treat her with an arrangement''s looser exchanges (as long as she treats me the same).

Rick likes to keep the stripper/client relationship more strict, so he never gets to this point, and the difference between church girl and stripper remains farther apart

Is your behavior completely different? Do you stroke the priests and grease the deacons?

"What if you saw a girl from the club in church?"

Not sure if this was directed at me or Rick, but I'll answer for me.

If I saw a girl I knew from a strip club, I would greet her like any other person seeking Christ with us. The only change that I would make would be to tell her that her secret would be safe with me.

A banner that has been placed on our front steps says "All are welcome. No exceptions!" We mean it.

Jesus Christ regularly hung out with prostitutes.

Being judgmental of sex workers is not very Christ-like.

@ATACdawg has the right idea.

I’ve had more intense and deeply thought provoking discussion about the Bible and Christianity on the side of a strip club stage with the dancer than I have had with many who claim to be Christians outside a strip club. I try not to pass judgment on others based on their choices in life. Hell, I’m definitely no Saint. It would be quite hypocritical of me to pass that judgment.

A stripper told me that she was actually a Christian minister. Thought that might turn me on. The stripper-shit was way too obvious. Don't know how it would have affected me if true, but probably negatively.

"A banner that has been placed on our front steps says "All are welcome. No exceptions!" We mean it."

Pretty sure Satan is the exception.

I treat everyone as they deserve: with dignity and respect, until they no longer deserve. An example would be the simperting little douchebag VH. She would be treated poorly, as are all dirty, filthy people.

Well, not really church but my son went to catholic school from k - 12. We moved right before he entered Kindergarten. I was living in the new town before my family and had been going to some clubs. After a week of school my son was very excited about his new friend Emily. I went to school for the first open house. Imagine my surprise when Emily's mom was a dancer I recognized from a local club. Yes, I got a number of dances from her. (Dances but nothing else.) She gave me the slightest nod, so I am sure she recognized me also, but that was the last time I saw her.

I treat folks the same - whether I see them in church or the club - or anywhere. I would be welcoming if I saw a stripper in church - even if she was an extras stripper.

The work that strippers do is not easy work. I see no reason why others might look down on them.

Years ago, I was attending mass for a special occasion - and I recognized a dancer in the congregation. I had gotten some excellent private room dances from her. We were not seated close to each other, so we didn’t have any interaction during mass, but I was able to say hello after mass. It was no different than any other friendly hello.

As it is often said - those of us with sins are in need of church and mass and the healing we receive there. If someone thinks church is a place for only those who are free of sin - they are wrong.

===> "What if you saw a girl from the club in church?"

If it was a girl from the club AND she was asking the church for help, I would never be able to lay a finger on her again. If it was just a girl who was attending services in our congregation, I have no clue besides keeping my mouth shut. I guess I'll figure it out if it ever happens, but fortunately I club far enough away from home and live in the type of community where the odds of this happening are very low.

If not being a dinners was a requirement of being in church, every church would be empty!

===> "Rick, I think you're minimizing the social context here. I mean, church vs strip club is not like, north side of the street vs south side of the street, where it doesn't make sense you'd treat people differently. Church social context is about ethics (or the illusion thereof), and has a very strong social bonding component built around honesty and caring (or the illusion thereof). This is your tribe."

Subraman, social context is not supposed to matter to the faithful. Everyone, from sinner to saint to heathen to stranger, is supposed to be worthy of the same human dignity and decency.

Let me make this more real. Let's say I'm in a club and learn that a dancer just moved herself and her two kids temporarily into a motel while she tries to get her situation more grounded. If she were a member of our congregation in the same boat and we learned of her situation, there would probably be a collection for her and members with ties to housing and employment services would be trying to help her in other ways. But when I meet her in a strip club, my immediate reaction is "hot girl with cash needs - ding ding ding."

Idk. Lately I've been having more trouble reconciling this. I'm guessing that this will pass, but it's something I'm chewing on at the moment.

I eliminate this moral conflict by not going to church and not being religious overall.

Insofar as the church-going faithful are concerned, the answer is simple. You're sinning and you should stop.

Granted, the answer is simple. The execution of that answer is not. I get that.

I don't treat dancers like disposable humans in or out of the club. I truly like the dancers that I see regularly. That said, the problem outside of the club (for the dancer and customer) is public scrutiny and shaming.

One of the few things that dancers and customers have in common is that almost everyone outside of club culture thinks we're horrible.

I follow the Ish method. One of my buddies who SCs with me often, is religious and goes to church. From what I can tell, he handles this by basically setting up the proverbial "Chinese wall", and not trying to reconcile the two. I have a grudging admiration for that approach -- he's not going to worry about whether they're compatible or try to rationalize one in the context of the other, so religious guy is nowhere in sight when we're headed to the club. Not that a little introspection is a bad thing, but in this case, could lead to him not going to the club anymore (or to church)

-->"Stripper-client relationship should only exist inside the fantasy confines of the club"

VH, if you haven't tried OTC, you're missing out on one of the most fun aspects of SCing. If you've decided that OTC isn't for you, I respect that decision. But stripper-client relationship is not limited to the club by any stretch of the imagination, nor is there any ethical or other imperative that it should be that way. OTC FTW :)

Not all, but a lot of Christians use prayer and confession in much the same way as guys here who dip their dicks in Listerine after aggressive BB anal with a stripper / escort, thinking that somehow and magically washes away all their... problems.

-->"I guess for those of you engaging in OTC activities, then greeting each other in public is a normal thing. I would only do it if the girl told me explicitly that it was cool with her to act like friends in public."

I wasn't reacting to your "greeting in public thing". I'm with you -- don't greet or acknowledge her, you have no idea who is around her (and she has no idea who is around you). Even an OTC girl, if I just happened to run into her not as part of an OTC, I'd ignore her unless she said hi first. Let's not fuck up each others' lives, is a good rule to live by

Your statement about stripper/customer relationships belonging in the club only was a bit overly broad. But I agree not to greet a stripper in public during a casual run-in.

If you have an OTC or SA relationship with a woman, it doesn't hurt to have a talk early on about what should happen if you see each other "in the wild".

"I'm not Christian but from what I understand from Christians I've known --- all you need to do is accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior and then all your sins are washed away. For Catholics, this means going to confession on a regular basis and for Protestants, I think they just pray away the sins?"

I'm afraid that your understanding of Christianity is not very deep.

I agree, it is hypocrisy Or compartmentalizing Or whatever

And I mean no judgementalness

But I think religion offers more opportunities for the above

===> "Stripper-client relationship should only exist inside the fantasy confines of the club where the real world and it's evils can not taint a beautiful connection."

Good stuff VH. This silly naiveté of this comment made me chuckle a few times.

VH's own personal idea about strippers is that his job making fries neither impresses them or pays enough to pay them to be impressed. He doesn't understand Christianity? He understands it but it makes him realize how inferior he is so he falls back upon his stupidity.

Strippers chose to be strippers and that is their job. I have no moral quandary because I let strippers set their own boundaries. If I know a dancer is not a high mileage girl, I wouldn't try to get more because I heard she was down on her luck. If she offered extras because she wanted additional income, then she has made that decision.

Forget strip clubs for a second. Would you not be more generous to a congregation member that fell on hard times, than say a waitress at the local restaurant you heard the same about? I think it just goes to supporting your community. A lot of people feel they have "church family", it is the rare PL that feels they have "club family".

-->"I've heard of guys greeting escorts in public like friends when they were engaging in sexual activity just a few days prior. This seems very weird and inappropriate. If I caught her gaze, I would simply wave and wink and move on with my day. No need for idle chit-chat."

See, I don't think chit-chatting with strippers or escorts in public is weird or inappropriate -- that feels like a personal hangup you have, that you shouldn't project on the rest of us. My one and only concern about a random run-in with a stripper is discretion -- maybe her mom or sister or boyfriend are right around the corner, where I can't see them, and she doesn't want to mix her worlds. For discretion reasons, I wouldn't acknowledge a stripper -- not even a wave, which is indiscreet and could get her in trouble. But if she greets me and indicates it's okay, fuck yes, hugs and chit chat all around. Weird and inappropriate not to -- I mean, you just had sex, and she's a real person not some sex doll, of course you treat her like a person and talk.

Just an alternative view

===> "Would you not be more generous to a congregation member that fell on hard times, than say a waitress at the local restaurant you heard the same about?"

Sure I would probably get more involved if it was a church member as opposed to a stranger. But I would still never dream of leveraging the waitress' situation in order to obtain sex or even accept it if she offered. My shame would be too great. But somehow once she puts on those heels and dances on a pole, she becomes fair game in my mind. Hence this thread exploring the potential hypocrisy.

VH speakinmg about normal life is like Adolph Hitler saying "can't we all just get along"?

Rick Dugan getting reflective? This is going to cause a problem for the Rick Animals because they won't have anyone to make fun of anymore.

SJG

The Yardbirds - Live Anderson Theatre 1968 N.York (Full Album) youtube.com

rickflective IMO

This is totally normal rick my friend. Remember the rick credo: it is ok to be an asshole as long as you aren’t 100% a dick.

Using all of the possible leverage you can with a stripper is just good sense. She may think you’re being an asshole for pushing things, but you get laid and she gets paid. So its all good.

On the other hand, some church lady - even if she is a super sexy hairless ape - is not selling sex in any way shape or form. So you feel pushing her into that life would involve being 100% dickish. We’ve already established that being 100% a dick is not rickish. Hence your discomfort.

My church interaction with a stripper was very simple. As we left the church, she passed me, looked at me, smiled, and said hello. I replied with a simple hello.

We carried on our ways after, and no harm was done.

I still dipped my dick in Listerine after - to kill any germs I may have contacted when blessing my balls with holy water.

===> "Rick Dugan getting reflective? This is going to cause a problem for the Rick Animals because they won't have anyone to make fun of anymore."

Don't worry SJG, they aren't terribly clever anyway. Sadly, the odds of the Rick Animals actually producing a subtly clever barb are about the same as the odds of a retarded child reinventing quantum theory - not very high. 😉

Also, I'm sure this will pass, so soon enough the Rick Animals will have more fodder for their poor attempts at comedy.

For one to be truly rickish, one should always ask oneself “WWRTTD?” RTT is Rikki-Tikki-Tavi, a rick in spirit even if he does not wear the suit or tell hairless ape whores that he’s a chemical engineer.

Let’s face it, mongooses can be asshole. It comes with the predator gig. Amiright or amiright? But RTT isn’t going to hurt his adopted family. After all, mongoose love is a beautiful thing.

Likewise, RTT would never go randomly attacking cobras that stay mellow and keep to themselves. I mean really, cobras may not be in your family but cobras gotta make a living too. Just randomly attacking innocent cobras is 100% dickish.

But when those cobras threaten his adopted family he opens a rickish can of whoopass on those cobra assholes. If a cobra acts like a dick it is gonna get Rikkied, Tikkied, and Tavied, if you know what I mean.

You consider the congregation your family. So it would be dickish to pay some down on her luck churchgoer to suck your cock. Totally understandable.

I hear you rick, those other animals pretending to be council members are total dicks. Mostly zebras.

Fortunately, you know the true ricks. Hell, you even gave a subtle clue. But stay cool. I’m still working on my rederivation of Bell’s inequalities using Calabi-Yau manifolds. It is going to revolutionize our understanding of the universe. Trust me. ROAR!!!

@RickDugan you should join the church of tuscl and donate generously to the collection plate. We are remodeling the church and adding stripper poles. Sunday service will be a freaking party!

Ricky, you need to cum in for confessions soon

^^^^ my organization will be much better!

SJG

In this day and age is there such a thing as a normal girl? They're all off kilter to some degree. The topic title is set in TUSCL stone but IMO dealing with strippers and non strippers would have been a more accurate title. Not nit picking, it's just my opinion.

Were I to ever actually go to a church for anything except a friend's wedding or funeral, and were I actually to receive an offer of some kind of sex in return for help or money, it would have nothing to do with shame or immorality.

In a strip club, I'd have a reasonable expectation of privacy with regard to what is going on. A stripper (or at least one that I am likely to choose, is almost certainly going to keep quiet. She probably doesn't want it generally known what she does, and maybe even want to hide from the other girls how to win my money.

In a church or other social setting, it seems to me that that someone who offers such a deal is way too likely to blab or have the kind of regret that leads to tearful "confessions" to friends or family, at which point it's no longer private.

Since there isn't anything wrong with what I'm doing, I wouldn't have a problem with the trade itself.

My doctor told me that my life of wine, women and song was too much, and that I needed to make changes. I agreed with her.

The very next Thursday, I quit the church choir... 😉

Not sure if I've ever even thought that deep into it ... usually I'm not talking anything far as religion until we have a relationship outside the club and have a lot of convos so faith and all of that doesn't cross my mind typically when ass and tits are in my face .

I would dope slap VH in church; a strip club; a park; his Mother's basement where he lives and so forth. Just a useless piece of shit; yet superior to to theentire council of pRicks.

I have thought of this (not because of christian ideologies, but because I like to help people natural) and I have come up with a solution. Let a third party help and you contribute to the third party. If the stripper and the poor non-stripper woman both come to the charity in search of good will to humans, then neither will be turned away because their occupations don't matter but their level of need does. I can't vet each person individually thus why organizations exist so they can do that for me. I'm just a helpful anonymous hand that keeps the cogs turning.

TL:DR don't play hero when someone more accomplished can do it for you.

I think the bigger issue here is how YOU the individual thinks. It's as someone said on this website in the past. It's tribalism at it's core. You are treating someone different based on their external factors when everyone is human. they don't fit your narrative so they are not apart of a tribe you approve of, I would try to realize everyone single person, whether a penis licker or a nun is still human and still has their own strife no matter how little of it we see.