I really pissed a dancer off

Needless to say
If you don't pay
She's gonna say
'Fuck you' all day

I will say
That's not my way
This game to play
Sounds like a lousy lay

I better get back to work, today

Many of these girls seem to have emotional issues - I'll rarely get into a back-and-forth with a dancer bc I don't see the payoff nor necessarily enjoy messing with a person's head/emotions - my M.O. when there's a disagreement or someone trying to pick a fight is to ignore and not engage.

w.r.t. not paying the agreed-amount - if the service was poor but she still followed thru, I'll still pay the agreed amount and be done with it - if the interaction was so bad that we couldn't complete the process, then I see a reason to not pay the full-amount.

Sadly Papi, it was really that bad. I can count on one hand the number of times I've ever withheld money on an OTC outing, but this was just inexcusable.

"...I laughed and winked at her..."

______________

The @Dugan winky-face is enough to infuriate anyone. I can certainly understand how she feels ;)

Yeah, I've had a really bad stripper-OTC experience (more like going to the doctors office than sex) and I paid her in full without a second thought. A few hundred dollars isn't worth pissing off some desperate stripper who may need the money to pay her rent.

===> "A few hundred dollars isn't worth pissing off some desperate stripper who may need the money to pay her rent."

If she's that desperate, then maybe next time she won't play games when she agrees to go OTC with someone. In the countless OTC encounters I've had, I have never done this before except in a few instances where girls actually passed out before the event. But this girl was just that bad. I'm not running a charity and am not going to reward bad behavior.

You have had multiple instances where the girl you took OTC was so inebriated she passed out?

^ Law of probabilities Justin. Do enough of something with enough different girls and eventually one experience a wider disbursement of outcomes. In those rare instances, which were at the tail end of the normal distribution curve, it was more drugs than alcohol, which they hid well until it overcame them.

Damn. I 'm glad I have never had to deal with that situation. Probably not a big stretch from passed out druggie to OD'd stripper in your hotel room.

“I’m not remotely difficult to deal with”

Not buying it

—>“In response at various points I laughed and winked at her, told her "walk away lazy puta" and made jerk off motions in front of myself. Needless to say, all of this pissed her off even more.

Finally, after the second or third time I told her to walk, she yells in response: "No, you walk! Leave!" I responded, "this is my club bitch, you're just visiting" with a smile and then a wink.”

You sound so amiable and laid back. I wonder why she had any problem with you at all. 😱

Front Room makeout session, + never treating her like she sells sex, would have probably fixed it so everything went well.

SJG

^ Can’t threaten to destroy a customer if a tongue is shoved in your mouth. 😅

@RickDugan - So what went wrong on the OTC? I would be curious to hear what sort of behavior someone has to get to for you to withhold payment.

If I do OTC, i do not go in with any expectations. I am paying for private TIME. I do not specify what i want or service. just time, so if a stripper does not perform to my liking i pay her the amount agreed upon and wont take any other future offers with her. I have a hard cap though, the majority of strippers dont perform to my liking because they are usually trying to burn me. I am not going to go back and forth. I am willing to lose, because the drama is not worth it.

Muddy/Nice: LOL. Think what you will, but I just don't take any of it seriously enough to get wound up and, though you may not like hearing this, that includes most anything that most of these girls think or say. With their age and backgrounds, odd issues generally come with the turf and any older guy who gets worked up over a little yipping from one of these girls is going to find clubs to be much less enjoyable than they should be.

But when one of the yippers bares its teeth, it needs a quick whack across the snout or it will mistakenly believe that it can do it again. In her case, she needed several whacks.

@Paul: I don't want to get into the specifics, especially on a board that has several other members from the region. But I've done a ton of these over the last decade and this is the first time I've ever gone to that extreme, which should tell you something.

Yippers? You went OTC with a pomeranian?

Sorry SJG, FRMS would not fix this one.

^^^ lmfao!

—>“But when one of the yippers bares its teeth, it needs a quick whack across the snout or it will mistakenly believe that it can do it again. In her case, she needed several whacks.”

Baring teeth? Is that the offense she did which you’re reluctant to share? Did she bite your dick? Possibly growl at the same time? Maybe even hump you from behind to prove her dominance?

^^^ lmfao!

Day dog bit me in da ass

Hahahah

“I have never done this before except in a few instances where girls actually passed out before the event.”

So now we know what the Douchebag’s real system is: he preys on girls too intoxicated to consent or resist. Sounds like just another sleepy time rapist a la SJG. Well, at least it probably works, unlike the stupid “three piece suit/chemical engineer act.”

And what kind of supposedly grown man taunts a dancer, or any woman, regardless of past history, by calling her a whore and simulating masturbation in front of her?

I'd be curious to hear this story from the other side... Perhaps there was something about the interaction that rubbed her the wrong way? No pun intended... For example, did you shower that day? Were you rude to her in any way? I can't understand why someone who had agreed to that transaction would not follow through, but I will say these two things... It's kind of a buyer beware situation, right? It's not like there's a satisfaction guarantee on that type of thing. And secondly, she really should have gotten the money up front! 😋🌞

Also, perhaps she just needed a little gentle coaching in order to live up to expectations... more bees with honey & all that...

Rick Dugan talks often about strip club girls who need help paying their rent.

I think he is saying things to them which encourage them to frame the relationship this way.

Once they see that he is comfortable talking about that, and giving them the money, they will know that they should always talk to him like that. So they will text him at the end of the month., And with their first OTC, they will frame it that way. Rick Dugan seems to like it that way.

So he is not really coming on to them in a more standard way, he is presenting it as his generosity and being able to give charity.

SJG

https://www.tuscl.net/discussion.php?id=…

In a similar circumstance I pay her the agreed upon amoutn and don't bait her. The amount of money we're talking about is meaningless, so pay her, ignore her forever and move on. Front room makeout session roflmao.

Groom you women and soften them up in stages. FRMOS is the most important step.

SJG

@Endless: if she had insisted on the money upfront she would have walked away with nothing as I never pay in advance. But as far as the rest, I too have wondered if something about our interaction bothered her, but if so it was nothing obvious.

@DE: I am the type of man who wanted to take the emotional satisfaction from continuing to come over and run her mouth. After a while it was clear that she was trying to get me to leave, but a silly self entitled girl with a bad attitude doesn't get to decide where I spend my time and money.

@ski: Normally I would just pay the freight too, but I just couldn't get myself to fully reward her bad behavior. Again this is something I never doubt in this instance I felt it was deserved.

@heaving: no tension on my part because I really didn't care what she thought about anything. The only reason I gave her any thought at all is because she kept coming over to run her mouth, at least until she got tired of being taunted for it.

It was probably a bad idea to underpay her without any prior agreement. For instance, you should have offered a flat rate plus a bonus if certain conditions are met.

All situations are different. If terms and expectations were discussed before the OTC and she didn't live up to them I see a valid reason to withhold some of the payment. Now if I actually would withhold some of the cash would depend on my mood at that moment. I never had issues with OTC strippers but I've paid some escorts the agreed amount even if they lied and didn't live up to their end of the deal and a couple others I explained why they weren't getting the full amount, some protested but in the end they were agreeable. In either case I was done with them and had no interest in seeing them again.
As an aside, I stopped seeing escorts a few years ago mainly because I never liked the time limit scale that they all seem to go by.

Regarding Rick's crazy sounding stripper, I hate drama so I might have just walked away from her but if she persisted I would have either spoke to the manager or walked out of the club.

For me the question here is did she fuck up unintentionally or was there a actual attempt made by her to short you on her part. I don’t know that I would have bullied her back in in the club doesn’t really do much for my ego to make her feel powerless but I wasn’t there and there seems to be a bunch you aren’t telling us.

What all of you non-ricks are forgetting is the fundamental rick credo: ** if you are a rick, it is ok to be an asshole but you shouldn’t be 100% a dick ** 😉

For example, taunting and pretending to jack off in front of some random ape that pissed you off is being an asshole and, therefore, completely appropriate behavior. My brother from another mother, rickdugan, recognized this.

On the other hand, following said female hairless ape home, leaving a flaming bag of feces outside her door, and ringing the doorbell is being 100% a dick. And kind of psycho. Therefore, said behavior would be off limits.

See how simple that is? Roar!

===> "I don’t know that I would have bullied her back in in the club doesn’t really do much for my ego to make her feel powerless but I wasn’t there and there seems to be a bunch you aren’t telling us."

25, I think context matters. This wasn't some situation where a young girl said something silly and I over-reacted, which is the type of behavior I often criticize (and always will). I showed the patience of Solomon until it was clear that she wasn't going to self-correct. She was staring at me across the bar for almost an hour, and came over to make those silly threats multiple times, before I went that route. Apparently the site of me back in the club was more than she could bear and after a while it became obvious that she was trying to get me to leave.

There was no ego involved. I don't hold grudges over bad behavior by young strippers and I took no pleasure in it. In fact, I felt a bit guilty about it, but at some point enough is enough. She was disrupting my night and, much like a badly misbehaving child, it was clear that she wasn't going to stop without some strong negative reinforcement.

^ Seems like there’s quite a bit that hasn’t been told here, the part about mimed masturbatory gestures seems juvenile to me as does the weird verbal exchange But that’s just me.

^ 25, it's hard to argue with any of that. But since she wasn't going to stop, I admit that I had some fun with it. Either she was going to get tired of coming by to cause trouble or she would eventually lose it completely and blow up, either of which would have served my purpose. Eventually she disappeared into DR and didn't emerge for the remainder of my time there, so I'd say that it worked.

There’s probably a prenup or performance agreement type document that can be agreed to prior to the interaction.

^ I like that a preOTC maybe we can get a template from one of our legal experts 😂

😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😁😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😍😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉

I feel now that with these Rick OTC's, that it is like astute observers have always said, he is paying the girls to go away.

And it is from this dynamic that there is still a large potential for crossed wires and meltdowns.

SJG

Can't say I wouldn't have been tempted towards something like this myself. Tempted.

Crazy story. I would have just paid her(to go away and never bother me at the club). I realize it might condone her bad behavior but really, it’s no skin off my back.

And judging from her subsequent behavior, she sounds like she could be one of those individuals who’s psycho enough to have her BF commit one of those 2AMers we’re always reading about.

End of story, it just ain’t worth it

It’s too much drama for me. I. Thinking jerking off would have been a better solution. Sure, go ahead and call me a jerk-off, but it’s better than dealing with any drama. Sigh

A bungled P4P session can have all the drama of a real relationship.

Dugan needs to stick with those hard times girls that need help at the end of the month.

SJG

😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😁😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😍😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉

Dugan seems to like to do it by that charity script.

SJG

@bullzeye, one thing I definitely would not have done is pay her off. I'll vehemently agree with rick on that particular score. No good ever came of paying a stripper extortion money. I'll make the club throw me out before that happens.

+1 GMD. I'll just add that at a certain point this became about more than one girl on one night. I am a regular at this little club and it is full or girls who can be pussy cats or sharkettes depending on what they think they can get away with. I've also taken a number girls from this club OTC. I would much rather have her in the DR crying and whining about how much of an evil a-hole I am than bragging about how she ran me out of the club or pressured me to cough up cash.

^^^^ start by selecting the one you want to be waking up in the mornings with. That already resolves lots of potential problems.

SJG

@rick, only thing I'd watch out for is her trying to "poison the well" so to speak, by bad mouthing you to the other girls.

If she's willing to lie her ass off about what happened, and where, it could conceivably cause you problems with the club. Had a girl pull that bullshit at one of the local clubs. One of her OTC regulars came into the club and happened to sit with another dancer (who is hotter but doesn't do anything in or out, as far as I know), and had the guy barred out, claiming he was "stalking" her! She actually thought he'd keep seeing her after that. :D Talk about "poisoning the well."

GMD, all very good points. Fortunately I have enough good relationships with the managers and a few dancers at this club that I can ride that out without too much ill effect beyond losing some opportunities with new prospects. What I cannot easily ride out is looking like a mark to prospects and even those that I have taken out before.

You've discovered the joys of being a regular. Methinks we've had converse about that a time or two in the past. :)

About 3 years ago at a black-dive I used to visit that recently closed - it was a UHM dive-club w/ veteran-dancers that had been-around-the-block and had the attitudes to match.

An older AA kinda hood dancer I had known for a while - she was medium-build but had natural super-firm DDs thus my type - I had known her for a while and would get dances from her most of my visits (it was a small dive club w/ usually single-digit # of dancers and not much new-blood coming in) - she had a temper-issue and an attitude - we had never gotten into it but I had seen her get into her w/ other people and at times she was a bit of a PITA for me to be w/ her in that she at times would get a bit bitchy but nothing major that would get in the way of me enjoying her massive-Double-Ds- she seemed kinda bipolar - some days she was very cool and other days kinda bitchy - when she drank she was usually more chill but with time she started drinking less and her bitchy attitude would show more.

I'm not much of an OTCer - one slowish night at the dive-club she asked me if I wanted to get a hotel-room - this dive was different than the other clubs in the area - kinda opened later near 5pm and closed early around 1am (sooner if it was slow) which is not the norm for Miami clubs which close b/w 4 and 6 am and usually open by noon or so (this dive was more of a rundown-bar w/ naked chicks than a club) - anyway she propositioned the hotel-room and I thought what the heck - we get to the room and all of a sudden she started acting weird like if she was some kinda virgin - she didn't wanna do anything (after I had given her the $$$) and she kept stalling - we finally fucked for about 2-minutes while she's was on-me FCG and she claims she came and wants to stop - it was obvious to me she didn't wanna be there nor do anything (after I had given her the $$$ and she had been the one w/ the idea about the hotel-room) - after she said she wanted to stop I said ok but my facial-expression said something else but I didn't verbalize it (was just willing to cut-my-loses) - she asked what was wrong and I told her why she had asked me to come to a hotel-room w/ her and then not wanna do anything - she then got all-hood on me talking loud and making it out as if somehow I was the one w/ the problem - anyway, obviously a train-wreck situation with what I believe was a mentally unstable person - I'm not one to normally argue, I'll have a discussion and if it's not getting anywhere then I just stop all interaction vs getting into it and not solving anything - which is what I did w/ her - but she kept popping off at the mouth and being nasty as if taking-it-out on me for w/e shit may be going in her life.

As I said, I had known her for a while - so when we were at the club we had actually driven to her apartment for her to drop off the car and then go in my car to the hotel-room that was farther away (thinking about it now IDK why we just didn't drive in separate cars - perhaps I thought she wanted to hang for a while and ride w/ me, or maybe she didn't wanna drive farther to the hotel-room, IDK - again we had know each other for a while at the club) - anyway we are leaving the room and I'm quiet wanting this to be over but she continues copping a hood attitude talking-loud and cussing - I'd had enough of her and didn't want her unstable ass in my car - we get to the motel parking-lot, I get in my car, and leave her ass behind.

About 2 hours later I get a text from her saying something like "you better look out for my peoples" - could've been genuine but I really didn't give a fuck and I don't get scared that easily from anyone's threats - I mostly took it as her wanting to scare me which didn't work.

This dive-club was sorta in my rotation but not near the top so I didn't visit as often as other clubs in my rotation - this chick also had a regular fulltime job and thus wasn't always at the club and she would go strecthes w/o being at the club.

Maybe a month later I was back at the club and she approaches me - she didn't threaten me or anything but started talking-down-to-me and again making it out to be as if I was the one to blame for what had happened - I didn't wanna deal w/ her and her unstable-ass so I told her I didn't wanna discuss it but she kept at it and again making it out to be as if I was the one w/ the issue - I'd had enough of her and I started getting heated and raising my voice (and why I rather not engage if we can't reach an agreement b/c I know if things escalate there's a chance I will go off) - she kept telling me to lower my voice but I was pretty-pissed by now and my Cubaness coming-out - eventually she just went on her way that night and we avoided each other for a while (in large part b/c I didn't visit that club as often as other clubs and she danced on-and-off) - eventually we sorta made-up in the sense that after a couple of months she approached me at the club as if nothing had happened and she didn't bring up the hotel-issue again - although I started getting dances from her in the club I knew better than to interact w/ her much further than that and she knew better than to get bictchy w/ me if she wanted my business which was needed at this small dive.

So this was one of the few-times things went sideways w/ me w/ a dancer and particularly in the realm of OTC since I don't OTC much.

Some of these chicks have issues that at times will come out (sometimes under certain settings since often times in the club they know better than to misbehave if they wanna keep working there) - sure, the "smart thing" is to cut one's losses but sometimes these chicks wanna instigate drama and one at times needs push back and not let them punk your ass.

you handled yourself real well. the only thing i would have done differently was when she's bitching like that in the car i would have hit the brakes and said, "get the fuck outta my car!!!"

IMO most situations w/ strippers that don't go well one needs to cut their loses and "take the high-road" - but there are times some of these chicks insist on putting their foot on you and you need to push back.

My concern would be a summary of what is discussed. Many of these dancers are needy/desperate for money. Some have emotional/psychological issues. Many have either their own criminal backgrounds or hang with some criminals/drug dealers. I would be concerned that irrational behavior on her part may come when you least expect it.

+1

You're stating the obvious

I believe that Rick Dugan prefers to deal with these dancers who need money, and that he encourages them to relate to him based on that issue.

SJG

https://www.tuscl.net/discussion.php?id=…

Standing up to these girls when they get out of line I don't think it's that different from when they try to rip you off in the club - seems many guys often pay a ROB that's ripping them off in order to avoid problems - if one thinks they should stand up to ROBs and not pay up, then I don't see how what Dugan did is any different.

Not intending to talk about other people, when I first joined Shadowcat posted about a girl he set up OTC with, but then she brought her gay lover who was out in the car and hysterical, and so the session fell through. Shadow still paid her in full anyway. Don't know if he ever saw that girl again, but he earned cred as a gentleman here.

But really isn't it better to have good intimate rapport with the girl before trying OTC, like FROMOS, then back room maximum, then talk about OTC.

And I think Dugan steers it to these kind of need charity scripts, and this could contribute to crossed wires and a blow up.

SJG

X- Universal Corner
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4jPat4LS…

Blahblah said..."So with Manhattan can I not be touched unless I am making 100s? I can't stand fuckers trying to touch me at 20/song. Don't have patience for that these days now that I know you can make a lot w/o it."


Hell yea. You could dance st Babydolls Dallas! They got strong mixed drinks!

who don't you piss off man?

I think you handled this situation fair enough. You're right that you can't reward bad behavior.

The image you paint of this scene is a pretty humorous one though I gotta say. Please tell me you were wearing a white suit while making those masturbatory movements.

CC-Ape, damn straight that my brother rick was wearing a suit when he was miming masturbation. Why the fuck wouldn’t he be. ricks gotta suit up when they go outside. Sort of like astronauts suiting up for an EVA! ROAR!!!

I remember this time I brought a number of suits to the dry cleaner. Now I was just wearing sweats because I figured it was just an errand. But this hairless ape bitch sitting at the bus stop across from the dry cleaner started running her mouth.

Not sure what stick was up the ape’s ass but she got on my nerves. I knew I couldn’t put the fear of rick into her in my sweats so I drove home, suited up, and went back to the bus stop. She had left by the time I got back but I decided to spend an hour drinking gimlets, miming masturbation, and dancing around while yelling “wildebeest!” Good times, good times!

But there were no cubs or apelings at the bus stops. Being an asshole in front of cubs or apelings is not rickish.

Anyhoo, since that day I always wear suits while traveling. Around home I wear my birthday suit. ROAR!!!

I had a pissy pants dancer once. She was pissed at someone stroking managers and greasing bouncers. She wanted da love for herself

===> "There’s probably a prenup or performance agreement type document that can be agreed to prior to the interaction."

===> "^ I like that a preOTC maybe we can get a template from one of our legal experts 😂"

LOL. Only on this site is there confusion about minimum expectations when a stripper leaves a club in the dead of night with a customer and goes directly to a notel with him. 😉

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@Rick, I’ve had this happen too. That said, next time just pay the lady and get on with life. Think of it this way, you’re paying her in full to keep the juju in balance. Sometimes you go to a different Waffle House and the pancakes taste like shit, doesn’t mean they cost any less, you just pay the bill, smile, and never return. That and these dancers talk enough smack in the dressing room, no reason for you to have a sourpuss in your stable making in harder to mount other women.

@Pistola: Running with that same analogy, would you still pay them if they brought the pancake out as half-cooked batter and refused to put it back on the griddle? Not me.

In other countries well of guys keep mistresses. I think that is the better way to look at this.

Dugan's System, it beats calling escort ads. Call such an ad and you and the woman have never met, but you are slated to proceed.

Far better to meet first at a strip club, then decide if you want to proceed.

And best to minimize dance buying in strip clubs, as that is bullshit.

But that is as far as the benefits of The System go.

I feel that Dugan's approach is a quintessential example of paying the woman to go away. And that he likes to do it around this end of the month rent help narrative seems to be something selected to further enforce this.

SJG

@Pistola

I'd think of it more as a waitress who spends the whole night bitching, on her phone instead of working, and takes so long to bring your food out that it goes cold and has to be re-cooked, causing you to be late for a movie you were trying to catch later that night. After all that shit, it makes sense to not tip her even if you normally always give waitresses a 20% tip as a courtesy.