Got robbed OTC ( SA)

My first dates are always unpaid, platonic, and in upscale area. If you use SA like Backpage, you're open to what you've described.

Glad you're okay and the story makes everyone more cautious

Having a hard time following the OP's narrative. But glad you are okay. And no, a gun does not make dangerous situations safer. Using your head is what does that.

SJG

It's easy to become complacent in this game.

There is some truth to what RandomMember says. If you promise nothing more than getting to know each other and seeing if you click over coffee or lunch for the first meet, the prostitutes and scammers are not going to bother with you. I hope you reported that she stole money and sent thugs to beat you up to SA. They are good about deleting these types of "sugar babies". She is probably doing the same thing to several guys every night.

Yeah.... lesson learned.

There are so many ways this could have gone side ways. I got lucky.

@Sinclair. yes, I reported her

"I hope you reported that she stole money and sent thugs to beat you up to SA"
won't do a damn thing. she'll just open up a new account. sucks for the OP - just move on and always be alert.

Question, why do you think the thugs came to your door? She already had the money and had escaped safely. Just curious.

^^^ story seems unclear to me too.

First of all, gotta practice The System. You meet your women f2f, like in a strip club. Don't call ads or use referral services.

https://www.tuscl.net/article.php?id=912

Second, speaking of my plans for future US travels, you don't just meet them f2f, you develop intimate rapport with them. So it will be Front Room Makeout Sessions, maybe back room FS, before any OTC is talked about.

And I will always be treating them in a 100% manner, never acting like money buys them or persuades them. They will get money, Mistress Maintenance. But the interaction is always 100% civilian.

So by the time an OTC meeting occurs, she is pretty close to a confirmed GF.

SJG

@loper I dont know. Didnt ask them

I'm guessing to try to shake me down for more ?

A reasonable guess. Glad you came out ok (minus money).

Wow that’s crazy. Question, was it really easy to set up? When I dabbled I usually looked for non pro genuine touch of flakiness. The too easy let’s meet gals I stayed away from on account of exactly that.

Hotels are usually filled with cameras, could have been hotel security knocking at your door to see if everything was alright although one would think they'd identify themselves as such

Meeting for a non-pay date I would think is no guarantee she still won't rip you off when you set up a subsequent pay-date - I get the point being made about these ROBs probably being hit-and-run types but scammers will often go to great-lengths and are often very-good at concealing their motives.

My M.O. is to not pay upfront and this is part of my pre-negotiation not when it's time to do the deed - I get what some guys say about this kinda affecting the overall vibe but for me personally the sting of getting ROBed is too upsetting

The "I need to step out of the room (VIP)" is an instant red-flag especially if she already has your $$$ - and even w/o having your $$$ she could have swiped some expensive valuables.

Once she's out of your room in view of the hotel cameras there's not much you can do, it's analogous to her leaving VIP with your $$$ and you forcefully trying to get your $$$ back in view of the club-staff.

I personally may have flipped and taken the $$$ back by force but that would be contingent on there not be a text-trail/evidence of me setting up P4P and then I could just deny deny deny.

It's not uncommon to get complainant and get burned - it often serves as a wakeup call to tighten up one's monger-game

Glad you’re ok, I’m inclined to believe that the two guys that came up to your room were hotel security responding to the altercation by the elevator rather than two thugs returning because most hotels have cameras in all public spaces and a couple of thugs would have known that, that should be a lesson for everyone here to always have the initial meeting in a public space and don’t send self incriminating text messages.

SJG said "story seems unclear to me too."

You're just unaccustomed to coherence.

I'm glad you're okay. Thanks for sharing.

It's fortunate that you only lost money.

I have no experience with SA, but in hindsight:

1. I wouldn't have paid up front, but I would have showed her the money so she knows it's there and she will receive it after the date. Maybe place it in an envelope on the nightstand. Could this be specified before the meeting? Or perhaps when you were having drinks and were ready to go upstairs?

2. I don't believe those two clowns were hotel security. Hotel employees ALWAYS identify themselves when knocking on your door. And unless another guest or the bitch reported you, hotel security probably wouldn't know what room you're in based solely on hearing some commotion near the elevator. Upon seeing those cock-suckers through the peep hole, I'd have called the front desk to report a couple of drunks knocking on my door and causing a commotion.

First off, let me echo everyone else that's said they're glad you're OK. Don't let some of the idiocy, trolls, etc., here make folks think we don't share a hobby and want to see what's best for each other. We're here to help each other out, and it sucks when one of us get put in this spot, because it could be any of us, and most of us are just out for a good time, not to hurt anyone.

This is where I'm tempted to get on my soapbox about SESTA/FOSTA. If this sort of thing was more out in the open, ladies could probably only get away with this once or twice before they got a bad review on TER and everyone got really leery going forward. I haven't engaged in the non-club version of "the hobby" since TER went away because I simply refuse to see a woman at least a few others have vouched for. I didn't do it that often when it was around, anyhow, because clubs tend to have far better talent at more affordable prices, anyhow, and so many reviews are so bad. But without it, I just don't trust anything I see.

I tried SA briefly and it didn't afford me the kind of anonymity I wanted. Sorry, also not for me.

I think, if you do this enough times, you get ripped off once or twice on occasion just because the odds say you will. I had a woman in a Vegas club promise me the moon and the stars and delivered nothing, earning her a spot in my ROB Hall of Fame. Even when you do what you can to keep it from happening, it still happens sometimes.

Takeout. One spa-type place. The occasional trip to Detroit. I've found those are the easiest ways to get off with the least chance of bad stuff happening. You do what you can.

It was not hotel staff at the door

I'll echo the "glad you are safe" thoughts.

But @RandomMember is spot on. I never pay in advance (anymore) and I always insist on a preliminary f2f meeting in public and specifically tell her there will be no intimacy and no allowance. Starbucks is your friend here. If we meet and she's pushing to go back to my place asap, I pass. That's the biggest red flag there is.

Reporting her to SA is probably useless, or even potentially bad for you. I'll guess her profile was fairly new, and it was probably gone (deleted or she blocked you) by the time you got back online to look. It's easy to create a new one. And, although I've been burned in this and other ways several times on SA over the last few years, I only reported a ROB once with no action from SA. But consider from the SA team's POV if there is a SD who reports multiple SB over time. They are likely going to start thinking that you are the problem.

Other ROB set ups to avoid:

1. She wants you to pick her up and asks if it's OK to have her "cousin" come along for (safety, more fun, whatever) reason. No way am I going to have her and some other stranger get into my car.
2. She asks for an Uber on your account to get to you from a pubic address/intersection. Once she's in the Uber she can divert the car to anywhere she wants, potentially costing you huge $$.
3. She asks for money for a hotel room. Of course, she will ghost you.
4. Her profile pics are stolen from someone else's IG account.

Well you get the idea.

I learned through hard experience never to pay upfront. The lesson was actually taught to me many moons ago in strip club CRs and I took this lesson with me into all of my OTC encounters.

But to be clear, this is not criticism. When the little head is doing the thinking, the path of least resistance feels like the right choice and it's damned tough to exercise discipline. But over many years I've learned that if a girl absolutely insists on payment upfront, despite my objections and showing her that I have it, then she was inevitably running a game to begin with. It's better to let her yell, cajole and ultimately stomp away without your money than to run out the door with it.

I always pay up front. Have yet to have a grab and go but I suppose it's just a matter of time.

I would not chase the ROB in that situation. I would just write it off to the stupid tax all us horney PL's have to pay.

For SA type encounters, I do meet them for a meal before any adult fun is discussed and do hotel time on the same day. Ive had decent luck with this.

Correction - rarely do hotel time on the same day.

Why did the thugs go to the door? Wow, it takes a lawyer's view that all people are scumbags, but my take on it is that she stashed the money in her snatch bank and told her two "friends" you took it back and they were there to rob him.

^ that makes sense as well, but I still think it would be very brazen for a couple of thugs to walk down a hallway with cameras what hotel chain were you using?

Dam skippy

You never pay up front and if you do, you never let her leave the room until she's done. I hate paying up front because if she robs you, it puts you into a position to get victimized. When the best way to prevent yourself from being victimized is to either assault her to get your money back or rape her to get your money's worth, you're probably doing it wrong. Once I realized this, I stopped with the escorts and went back to the strip clubs.

You never pay up front. How do I know? Because I got fucked. (Not in the good way.) Money well spent for a life lesson well learned.

Damn! I echo being glad you’re ok. Thanks for the story.

Has it been confirmed that the two thugs at the door did connect to the girl? That would make her plot more complex, and likely more costly.

SJG

In AMPs I've always paid up front, no problems ever.

The girl is worth more than the money.

SJG

In hindsight, something like this could have happened with nearly every SA meeting I've had.

I've thought..... what could I do in the future to protect myself?

1. Never pay upfront. Honestly, it's never came up in conversation before getting to the room. I should just make sure they know it in advance.
Clearly, there are girls that have been burned in this as well..... they are probably just as worried about not getting paid.

2. A wingman would help. But my work travel is alone.

3. I thought about some sort of lie where I tell the girl that I need to make sure my brother is out of the room before we head up. It would plant the idea that theres someone else watching out for me.

^ Sure, because telling her that you have another dude hanging around isn't going to make her skittish. 😉

Any time you introduce something unusual to the mix in a new OTC encounter, it creates a defensive reflex in a girl who already has her head on the swivel with a new guy. She'll be hearing your goofy story about your brother and imagining being ambushed for gang rape, arrested or something else bad.

You're best bet is to just pay them after the deed is done. If she has already come that far and knows you have the money, she'll do the act if she's serious about it. I'm speaking from ample experience with these situations. The ones who make it a deal breaker weren't going to perform anyway. Also, don't believe a sob story about her getting burned before because it's most likely a lie - men rarely want that kind of drama in their own hotel rooms.

That should be "Your best..." - typing too fast again.

You don't have to try and come up with all sorts of complex excuses to give her, this just shows you're not in control of the situation and she'll likely smell the bullshit/wennie-ness - keep it simple and direcr - you're the one paying thus your $ your rules - as Rick mentioned don't fall for "I've been ripped off by guys before"; these girls know other girls rob guys and from everything I've seen/read girls ripping off custies seems to be way more common than guys ripping off girls - she wants your $$$ so most won't just walk bc you won't pay upfront although some do - in the end it is your right to not pay w/o having received the service and this is not too much to ask.

Of the three options, only #1 is valid. From first contact, insist on paying after. Or, if you're feeling generous, pay 1/2 to 1/3 up front as a "security deposit".

If she's not into that, then find another girl. If that's not an option, then don't get laid. We all want to get laid, but I'd rather not get laid than risk getting robbed, beat up, or worse.

Your choices, though.

Error... Pay 1/4 to 1/3 up front. Not 1/2.

@Call.Me.Ishmael I like the way you think. You have the money, you set the demands. She dont like it, you can walk. There's plenty of fish in the sea.

Dont ever see why people make a mountain out of a hill.

Good thing it turned out okay except for losing the money, which can be replaced. Sounds like a bad situation. Not sure if leaving the hotel was a good idea though. They could have followed you or whatever. At least you had the door between you and them while inside.

Skibum had a good point

I never use SA or an escort service. I prefer AMP's

Paying her up front may have actually saved you a beating. If you didn’t pay her first, she may have texted the thugs your room number and let them in herself. That would’ve been dangerous.

All the recs above are good ways to protect yourself, but it’s good for all of us to remember that much of what we do will never be 100% safe no matter how many precautions we take.

@3131

“Pics or it didn’t happen.”

I am glad you are OK after this bad experience, hopefully it makes you appreciate the good experiences more and continue, use this experience as a lesson on how to improve your behavior the next time.

Seriously, post pics in SA (anonymously) of the girl to warn other about her criminal activity, probably she has done this many times.

You can also anonymously tip her crime to the local police. LEO doesn’t want local criminals to rip-off visitors, tourists etc, it is bad business for their community.

You ended your post with this sentence:

“Sobered up and considered my foolish self lucky.”

Yet another reason why I advocate not drinking and “operating heavy machinery”, “driving”, “engaging in games/activities/hobbies that require all the senses to be able to perform”.

I hope you consider this a learning experience, this hobby is like a poker game, you win sometimes and you loose sometimes. I approach it that way and always play with money I can afford to loose. I pay up front if requested politely and my Spidey Sense tells me is OK. So far so good.

I have considered showing the money and ripping the bills on half and giving the girls one half, if she insists on money up front, but so far I haven’t had the need to do that.

We should keep our guard up all the time regardless how comfortable we might feel, yet enjoy the exhilarating game we play.

One more observation, in my opinion OTC (Outside The Club) is more appropriate for strippers, for Sugar Babies, is more of a First Date/Interview/Encounter/Meeting.

I agree that the first meeting with potential sugar babies should be to see if there is “chemistry” and if it is a “match”, with no other compensation than paying for the meal, coffee, and cab ride/transportation. This is a good way to weed out some bad elements.

Believe or not I have seen some high end escorts to use this approach to screen clients.

However in your case, a traveler, this first job interview requires more time than you might have available.

Again thank <insert deity of choice> you are OK!

Thank the deity of your choice that you are Ok
:)

Back in the SA swing.
Had to cancel a date. I THINK she wasnt a scammer.... but she wanted paid at dinner.

I declined to make the date.
She was pissy about it, but I kept my money.

I would do the same thing. You shouldn't be paying for initial meet@greet. I occasional give small cash gift if she doesn't ask for it.

I have to admit I was second guessing myself when I did finally arrange a date.... who turned out a little heavier than I prefer.

No reason for her to get pissy about not being paid till services are rendered, IMO that's often a red-flag of someone that wants the $$$ w/o the intention of following thru.

I agree this is a red flag. Shes actually only the 2nd SA potential date that has mentioned it in advance via text as we were discussing the date.

I understand the girl's fear of not getting paid too. I mean, if she doesnt have a pimp.... who's gonna come after a guy that fucks and then refuses to pay?

I would never not pay for service rendered... but some of them guys out there are scammers too.

Basically in this arrangement, someone has to be trusting. And it ain't me.

To me it seems when it comes to getting ripped off it's usually the provider doing the ripping-off.

When I used to read StripperWeb I would read a lot of complaints from dancers about custies but very rarely were they about not getting paid after rendering services - yet on TUSCL it's fairly common to read reports of custies getting ripped-off.

Obviously hindsight is 2020. I have specific rules that I follow with each otc now. When I was drinking - I made every stupid mistake - and I know that I was simply lucky to not get into real trouble.

Now I will never drink more than a single drink - a beer - on a date. If she downs a lot - I’m out. I don’t want a drunk whore in my room.

If she wants payment at the start - it’s stopped immediately. That’s a red flag. Either she’s going to develop a quick illness or she’s just going through the motions.

If anything feels off - it’s over. It’s easier to see stuff that’s off - and to not discount it - when you are sober.

I don’t need to get laid badly enough to be robbed or beaten up by thugs - so the decision to stop is easy.