Curious how often anyone has seen or done front-room activities?
JeffTUSCL
California
Aside from the trolls we hear from is it really a thing? I would think any club, even HM clubs, would not want to see dancers kissing or feeling up guys out in the open. Even in dark corners. First it would make all their clientele start believing this is activity they should be trying for, making bouncer jobs more difficult and risking altercations more often. Second guys may be less likely to pay for dances or VIP if they are getting something like that up front.
Beyond what I believe, because I've never seen it, has anyone else? I would like to read about actual experiences or actual witness of such things, in addition to what type of club and in what part of the country.
Beyond what I believe, because I've never seen it, has anyone else? I would like to read about actual experiences or actual witness of such things, in addition to what type of club and in what part of the country.
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127 comments
I've had plenty of subdued action at our table... if she's sitting in the same big padded chair as me, neither the bouncers nor the eye-in-the-sky can tell exactly where my hand is, if I've got my arm down her back. Not terribly uncommon to get all-hole-access at the table, at least to the first or second knuckle, with a good ATF. But all of that's hidden -- it's not SJG-style open "front room action".
If it dosent happen im honesty not buying dances because i will already know that the club and girls are lame as fuck
Yes, happens all the time, SJG is the man! - MackTruck, PhatBoy99, Juicebox69, Lil_Baller100
No - rarely happens under special circumstances or not at all - everyone else.
Pretty conclusive, I guess SJG is right!
I was at a Pa club years ago - standing at the bar with a beer. A dancer I knew from years ago (who I knew as a civilian) - is on stage nude. She sees me and “Cash - get over here baby!” I go over and she gives me a big hug and a big kiss on the lips. The bouncer got up - to step in - but it wasn’t an issue. However, I could see that it wasn’t a thing they would want happening normally.
However, Treasures in Houston had such dark, private areas on the main floor that I saw full-on sex almost every time I went in there, no matter how busy. Even got busted there once with a dancer; she got sent home and was pissed off at me until she got to go back. Haven’t been there in years, but it was a very liberal club around 2010...
My experiences with front room is in Ohio strip clubs that function as a 'neighborhood bar for regulars' on weekend nights. I have a little less clubbing experience than you - 34 visits or so.
I was opening up with dancer about being stopped by a bouncer for touching a dancer's rib cage torso on a previous visit. Complete bullshit since I had seen a customer fondling a dancer's boobs like 'tuning pair of radio dials' as she sat on him, facing him, the whole dance, that same prior visit. So me being stopped for far less contact was a WTF moment for me.
It was clear from me that was a mood killer for me. We talked some more, I tipped for converstation. Tipped some more. Alcohol libations with a sympathetic dancer not wanting a bouncer to mess with her $$$. One thing leads to another.
It's happened in fully packed club on a Friday night, with standing room only, with the two of us getting handsy at a table. Nobody cared. Maybe people thought we had a *thing* and were leaving together? Don't know; don't care. It's happened on a Sunday night, late, when I was the only customer in the club, sitting at a table in Perv's row, in plain few at the front of the club. She wanted to make sure I got a good value for the trip, so I wouldn't feel ripped off the next day (as a casual customer), so I wouldn't give up clubs. ("When guys like you feel you get ripped off, the next day you feel like you didn't get a good value, and guys like you will swear off clubs, and dancers all lose a customer for life.") It's happened in the LD area when I lose our table very late Friday night and the bouncer lets us stay there for free, if no one else is using it. It starts with her initiating, me tipping inside the triangle of her thong. Then things kind of get started. A little light lip kissing, and LFK, with the dancer placing her hand underside of my chin to control it. For me, it seems to happen with Latina dancers.
If we're buying alcohol the clubs and employees are making money, period. The club isn't being cut out. If the dancer is earning tips. Well, the dancers feed the entire club.
Is it common? Don't think so. I have a seen it before? Just with a bi-sexual female companion once (2001-2-ish). Is takeout more common? I've never had takeout before. But I've had more takeout solicitations from dancers than front room action, so I'm inclined to think it is.
I hadn't read the troll material here before it happened to me, but opening up to them, then feeding them money, as much as it's a running joke, does seem to help.
TBH, it hasn't happened lately when the mileage returned to light 2-way contact for LDs.
Don't see that a lot either. Doesn't mean it doesn't happen. I love women. I like having fun. :)
Not makeout sessions, but during slow shifts the dancers weren't shy about pulling it out for a nice jerk. I find it's more likely when two girls are chatting you up, there is a sense of one-upping each other that can take things a long way. BTW these aren't usually clubs with 10's but remember two 6's = a 12, and so do three 4's.
Still waiting on my shot, she finished him off and swallowed. I felt really awkward standing there and pretended like I saw nothing in my peripheral vision.
Club Anti San Mateo, girl DFKing one guy after another from the stage. She was busy in the back room for a long time there after.
Girl on girl action, including open tongue kissing, San Francisco, often leads to intense makeout session with customer when she sits on his lap. No one in San Francisco is going to try and say that that is unlawful. But, a large operator has taken over and that runs contrary to its business models. Usually though I would say that front room DFKing means that back room FS is going on.
DV girls telling me, "I don't kiss", then demonstrably reversing themselves not too much further on, Front Room.
Our own underground circuit, kissing prohibited, but it is still not uncommon. Girls want OTC. They press forehead to forehead to show you that they mean business. Open tongue kissing and DFKing become then common.
Lots of places written about, and note one Skin Cabaret Scottdale AZ. Lots of talk about a blonde girl making out with customers. It might be all just one girl. I'm sure, she gets guys in the back room.
Other accounts of front room DFK, BJ, DATY, in SF Market St. Cinema, way back.
In many dives, the management does not have much of a whip to crack, it is no big privilege to work there. So mostly they just have to let the women do things there way, and just look the other direction.
One of our underground places was doing surreptitious front room FS, along with oral both ways and lots of DFKing.
The front room makeout session is a simple idea. In some of these places, the girls just do whatever they want, and that is always best.
Most of the time if a girl wants to be seeing you OTC, then DFKing could be available right then and there.
On stripper web I did lots of searching. Of course they bitch about it, but that means that they must be seeing it. Some girls finish their stage set and give thank you DFK's to anyone who gave her $1, and to anyone who gives her any money right then. This is usually part of that girl's version of 'wanna dance'. I'm sure she is kept busy, and that is certainly what I would do with her.
SJG
TJ Street
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/x9DUqhAne44/hqdef…
san_jose_guy - commonly referred to as SJG this forum member is usually mocked or ignored, his comments should NOT be taken in any way as legitimate
Phatboy99 - definite troll account
Lil_Baller100 - definite troll account
two_bits - parody troll account
Then they finish up in the back room, or on couches in specially darkened corners. More plausible deniability for management that way.
Multiple tuscler's have affirmed that in the mixed race dives, all the girls do it exactly that same way.
SJG
TJ Street
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/x9DUqhAne44/hqdef…
And with the stage side $1 DFK's and the girl lying on the bar $1 DFK's, I was more than just an observer. But, I am not saying that these things are common. How ever, if you wanted to make it happen, as a prelude to back room FS and then OTC, I believe that in many situations this could be so, like in our Mexican Bar underground, though the OTC FS only.
When you have a girl intensely pressing forehead to forehead, generally that means that she wants you to be the one to take the next step. Even if not front room DFKing, at a minimum she wants immediate OTC with you.
In our underground, I would usually start them off with open tongue kissing, as it is done in some porno movies.
SJG
Dedicated to DC9428
Fat Joe Ft. Lil Wayne - Make It Rain (official music video) HQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fls8VU7X…
???
SJG
TJ Street
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/x9DUqhAne44/hqdef…
"
I have done front room makeout sessions in hk adelitas and chicago club! Only in the pitiful us would we have this stupid thread
"
I could not possibly agree more! When people go to US clubs and buy dances, the are perpetuating what is the modern version of a clip joint. They are keeping in business the kinds of establishments that need reviews, and reviews usually written by people who have no idea what they are talking about. If we had front room makeout sessions, as tends to be the case when the women can do it anyway they want, then we would not even need to have reviews.
I am glad Countryman that you have had your great experiences in TJ.
If we insisted, I believe that US clubs could be that good.
But also, sex tourism and strip clubs, mostly what they do is show you is that there is a potential that life could be much better than it usually is. So then what we need to do is take what we've learned in strip clubs and find some way to actualize it in our everyday lives.
DC9428 wrote, "
How often do dancer on PL makeout sessions happen do you say?"
We have credible people here for whom this is standard. No front room makeout session = no backroom or OTC. But when he selects a girl and approaches, he comes on to her and hands her front room money and lets her know that they will be bedding down together regularly. And to me this makes perfect sense. Why not? An Expert Womanizer will want to do this, and will know how to do it. So for him, usually front room DFKing ensues right away. He has selected the girl, so if she wants to affirm and accept, then this is how it is done.
Dominic77, what you are describing is very common, or at least it had been. Black strip clubs .net was saturated with account of clubs where the girl jumps onto your lap and starts licking your neck and nibbling at your ear lobe. She is defying you to start coming on to her and making out with her. Then sometimes they go to VIP rooms, or a common VIP room, to finish what they have started.
In some other clubs they just go to couches in specially darkened corners. More plausible deniability for the owner that way.
And we have had threads about the 'chair forts', improvised privacy in Houston and Dallas, in the early days of Texas UHM.
The best is always when the women get to do it their own way. This is what makes front room makeout sessions the most likely. Best when the management has the least role in it.
Do you agree that simply by being more heads up and open and honest, that clubs and girls will often likely be easily steered into front room makeout sessions?
For girls in our local clubs, wanting immediate OTC, they make it go that way, they lead with DFKing.
For girls in our local clubs wanting to walk out the front door with a known big spender, they dress in short skirts and high heels, so they are ready to walk out the front door with him, then they sit on opposite sides of him on the couch and are taking turns getting right in front of him and DFKing him.
SJG
Reply to Nicole:
https://www.tuscl.net/discussion.php?id=…
This one here, I think London, Kelly-Ann Maddox, she goes with the Chaos Magick leaders, Peter J. Carroll, Ray Sherwin, Phil Hine, and Austin Osman Spare. She talks about all of these in some of her hundred plus videos.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qOw7brwD…
TJ Street
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/x9DUqhAne44/hqdef…
Elliot Rodger Manifesto 2014, 11 hours, am listening through this, and I see it differently now.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=60WCF3WB…
Baker Gurvitz Army
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7GXbGPN…
To bad he had to travel 2600 miles to learn that. But on the otherhand, learning that is worth whatever it takes.
Now, we need to learn how to change the way things go in the US.
SJG
You're probably also right that strippers don't like it... I wouldn't want to kiss a 50 year old woman if I were 22. Nevertheless, they do it, just not in the front room, where club policies get them in trouble.
So consider today, at a DV club, say in San Francisco. And say it is one of the 4x DV no alcohol nude clubs, 20's, Eden, Darlings, Century,
What happens if a girl does start making out in the front room with a customer? Are either of the parties penalized? Is the main seating conducive to girls who want to sit with customers?
We know that part of the expertise which DV brings is in its various business models. Market segmentation is a long established practice in American business. And we know that local regulars are only a small portion of the market.
What do you think about our recommendation for a new business model, the "Local Regulars" business model.
Mostly it comes down to just letting the women do it the way they want. So the bouncers have to stand back. And the seating in the front room should be changed so that there are wide seats or booth benches, so that dancers can sit with customers. This would bring in dollars which currently are being withheld from the SF clubs.
Best probably for one of those 3x small clubs on Broadway, either that or at New Century.
I'll help you find the girls and give them a thorough road test, if you don't have enough. :) :) :)
"So we have been challenged here to make recommendations to Deja Vu. So I want to refine what has already been posted and then solicit more discussion on it to the ends that we might have a collective recommendation to submit:"
https://www.tuscl.net/discussion.php?id=…
And since we are talking about such, how do things typically go at DV TJ, front room makeout sessions common?
SJG
Completely off topic, but dayshift in SF clubs is pretty local-regular heavy. Become a regular at any club, you'll start to see a lot of the same faces. Gold Club doesn't follow that trend for obvious reasons, but -- to take DV out of this -- you go to CH dayshift enough times, you'll start recognizing faces
Nightshift is a whole 'nother beast.
Given what seems to be a big difference in demographics, always wondered if changes in the business model (other than marginal reductions in entry fee and drink prices) would make sense.
Used to be that in SF no alcohol clubs, no real rules. Jim and Artie started it that way, all front room.
SJG
These are non-extras clubs, and in my case (at the time) no contact clubs. Can't say what she does all the time, but at the time her hygiene was impeccable as was mine. I do think you guys are over-focusing on the kissing part. Her caressing me, (also me her,) the flirty banter, the drinking, the relaxed club atmosphere, and sexual tension is was really makes it worthwhile.
Generally women have very high hygiene standards.
And remember, I'm not describing something which needs to happen very often. Its rather like meeting a girl for the first time at a party. Usually a makeout session is the strongest indicator that you will be waking up with her in the morning. This goes back to when hairless apes still had hair and lived in trees. It is still like this today amongst Bonobos. Their daily routines of life amount to an orgy.
And so if you go to a strip club and identify the girl you want to be waking up in the mornings with, and then approach her yourself, you've got a good chance that it can go that way. You won't need to do this very often, because what ensues with you new GF, it will keep you busy.
Lap dancing started at MBOT, and it was all front room. Nothing besides FS was prohibited. So while DFKing was not standard, it was common.
And even at our local strict no touching clubs, when a girl wants immediate OTC, it does happen that she will initiate a makeout session. Sometimes she DFK's a lot of guys in succession. Alcohol, boredom, knowing what bouncers are on duty, it can do this. She wants to be fucked.
In one club, slated for closure, the back room mileage went sky high, and so a girl was DFKing from the stage, in effect for $1. She wanted results, getting guys into the back room, and not to have to talk about it.
And then in our underground on again and off again Mexican bar circuit, most all the girls do OTC. They do all the OTC they can get because they know the underground club will not last long. So while DFKing is not allowed, it is still not uncommon.
And then in old San Francisco lap dancing, pre-booths and back rooms, intensive makeout sessions, while not standard, they were common.
I found this out first hand as I slipped out of a stupid conference at the Moscone Center, and I spotted an extremely cute black girl, wearing pants and high heel pumps. I figured she was an office worker, out on her lunch hour. I was going to try and invite her to hunch, but then she ducked into the New Century.
So without that much money on me I followed. I got the door man to tell me her stage name. I had to wait about 90 min for her set.
Then she finished her set, peeled down to nothing but her high heeled pumps and makeup. She invited another girl up on stage, as is a San Francisco tradition. They engaged in a great deal of open tongue kissing.
Then she was on my lap.
Now often they have girl kissing in porno movies and I just FF past it. But in real life, it is a powerful turn on, something one cannot ignore. It is a graphical demonstration that women control the erotic.
So though I had not planned on saying this, I told her how much of a turn on it was. She immediately chimed in telling me how much she was enjoying it.
Well with that, something is going to happen.
This girl is a national treasure. That she could be that physically open, with me, a total stranger, a married corporate creep in a suit, just completely blew me away.
And so to this day, I continue to try to find ways to make my life more like the bohemian life she was leading.
SJG
Ginger Baker's Air Force (Jazz and Rock, 1970) Full Show
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oe9DA8pO…
san_jose_guy - commonly referred to as SJG this forum member is usually mocked or ignored, his comments should NOT be taken in any way as legitimate
Phatboy99 - definite troll account
I guess all of us club for different reasons.... mine just don't line up with looking for a girlfriend or somebody to make out with
"
If your any good with ladies its everytime i visit a club
If it dosent happen im honesty not buying dances because i will already know that the club and girls are lame as fuck
"
Listen, paying a girl does not really have to mean that you are paying her. You don't have to be using the money to persuade her to do anything she is not already just tickled pink about. The money should be just a show of care and respect. Getting that money is what lets her be there at the strip club all dolled up and ready to take care of you. I look at it more as Mistress Maintenance.
The money is what keeps her in high heels instead of sensible shoes, and it keeps her out of the finance sector. But it should never be intended to get he to do anything she is not already perfectly happy to do.
And then of course DFKing is what established right off this level of intimate rapport. It should be the standard custom.
So Vu, at DV TJ, is front room DFKing common, standard, or universal?
I assume that at Pahrump it would be, except for screwy NV laws. But it does look like you have assembled a quite capable GFE Team.
SJG
"There are two reasons I will go to a club bored and just want to look at some titties (In which case I am not even going to waste money on a dance when I can get what I am looking for for 1 dollar stage side) the second reason is that I want to bust a nut (In which case I do not even care what the whores name is or anything about her) Just suck my dick then bend over the couch and take it... and do not call me asking when I am coming back to the club.... I will come back when I want to use your holes again.
"
So Daddilac, there is something seriously wrong in your life, that things are that bleak. I don't know what it is, but there has to be someway to fix it, and that will not be found at the strip club.
Marriage Councilor?
Divorce Lawyer?
New Career?
There has to be something. You are using the strip club and its women like a drug.
SJG
Girlfriend is really an adolescent concept. Usually it means girls in high school who live with and are being supported by their parents.
But in most countries other than the US, well-off smart guys keep mistresses.
SJG
No Marriage to counsel
Job is very satisfying
I don't think it is bleak at all... just because I don't share the lust for making out with a stranger who has been sucking cocks all day does not mean things are bleak. I just do not chose to have a relationship with a whore.
A lot of people have said that FIV is more common than DFKing in strip club front rooms.
Okay, but the DFking does happen, and really you want to be doing both.
And it is supposed to be in front of everyone. It is not just a test drive. It is building up of intimate rapport and it is making a public statement. In getting the girl into unrestrained DFKing, its just like at a party, you are letting everyone see that you are hitting on her and that she is now yours, and so odds are that you and she will soon be walking out the front door together and be wearing out mattresses regularly.
And guess what happens when one couple has a front room makeout session?
Others are soon doing exactly the same thing.
And Zoey, thanks for your post!
SJG
Dadillac, way to go resorting to misogynistic remarks
San Jose GUy you're actually right. Treat a dancer like a human being! What a concept!
i was paying you a compliment in that you are an honest whore, telling us exactly like you feel
I was just also telling exactly how I feel.... To me you are an ugly whore that better have good skills or else no money from me
No hard feelings, not mad, nothing
I already know SJG sees his method as the ONLY way to correctly club. But at least can you other open minded folks agree that everyone has their own way to have fun spending their money and there's nothing wrong with it?
you couldn't afford me. Im serious. I'm in LA baby, big money moves here.
Everybody, I have never said that DFKing is common in any of the clubs I have ever been too. But it has existed in most all of them. And most of the time it is a girl who is bored and wants immediate OTC. She wants to be fucked. And I don't see how her motives could ever be purely monetary.
The best, old San Francisco, front room only, no back rooms, no Mafia, no Deja Vu.
And then our on an off again Latina underground, girls who do all the OTC they can.
But then I know from AMPs, where DFKing is not standard, that if you can make it go that way, what ensues will be mind blowing for both parties. Usually I can make it go that way. Mainly you just have to know how to stage it, come on to her, and then it is in how you do it.
And in some civilian non-party situations you can just walk up to a girl and DFK her like that. Again, just knowing how.
In San Francisco I have been deeply offended by how DV runs its clubs, as there they will not get busted for DFKing. They convince the girls not to do it. But girls who work in more off the hook places usually have no problem with it, sometimes even leading with it. And girls in more off the hook places insist that they make more money by front room friendliness than they do by 'wanna dance?'.
'Wanna Dance?" means that they guy can say no. With front room friendliness, that need not even be an option. And other times, its just any guy who gives her $1 gets a very nice DFK. And I can certify this to be true.
Now presumably what she really wants it the back room or immediate OTC. I'm sure they get exactly what they want. Girls like that should be treasured.
Countryman5434 wrote:
"@ sjg i would love to know how to change things in the u. s. You figure it out please tell me!"
So this is not a new idea:
https://www.tuscl.net/discussion.php?id=…
What I would say today is the following:
1. Patronize the dives and shit holes, and the MILF's where this is more likely to work.
2. Learn how to come on to women nicely. And in a strip club, be generous. Be open and honest about yourself, and select and approach a girl you really like. She will feel this. Eye contact, tone of voice, how you are talking to her. Then when it comes time, you just kiss her. You don't start a discussion about it, you kiss her.
3. Back room, take her home with you, continue to see her regularly.
4. Talk about this here on TUSCL and let some consensus develop, and promote the clubs that have the most front room makeout sessions.
5. DV is not the enemy, but we need to find some way to open more clubs, like in San Francisco. This is not to take money away from DV, it is to restore San Francisco to the cutting edge. I have some ideas here.
6. Try to get laws changed.
7. Be nice to your stripper mistresses and take good care of them.
8. Also look to counter culture, as often there the rules will be looser and the love will be free. My organization, not a nation state, not a strip club, not for the public, it will still deliver for our members stripper quality mind blowing sex daily. Other people may have other approaches, but which still work.
And so Countryman, you have been to the Gold Standard, Heavenly Paradise here on Earth, so you tell us how we could make it more like this in the US?
SJG
Clapton Old Love
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OIBxn8ar…
Its just a matter of treating the girl as you would any other girl.
With civvies, usually DFKing is the key in the lock which makes it all happen. They won't fuck you if they won't kiss you.
Strip clubs do not have to be just an escape. They can be a place where the strictness and formality of courtship and dating rituals are completely broken down.
Strippers are no different from any other women.
SJG
Dadillac, I can easily get $2000 a pop, once got a $6000 offer. Gotta aim high when it comes to hoeing. #proathleteshavemoneytoburn And you're lucky I even posted a pic on here, I rarely do online. Consider yourself blessed.
San Jose Guy, uhhhhhh the whole aim of dancing is to make as much doing as little as possible. You're not gonna get far with that.
Which is why I won't waste time trying to go back and forth with you. No need to PM me or anything like that. You have your ideas, other people have theirs. You refuse to let people carry out their wants in a club without ridiculing them if it doesn't line up exactly with your beliefs. That's where me and you will always disagree.
1. My ATF is totally willing to make out. I personally don't want to, but even if I did it would do NOTHING to "open her up" for FS. Because she is 120% gay and totally grossed out by penises.
2. So if a guys wife is paralyzed or otherwise incapable of physical intimacy. So he should either leave her or never experience affectionate touch again?
3. SJG talks about "treating women as civilians" but his fantasy is to walk into a SC and have a hot girl just start fucking him with "zero words exchanged". That is NOT how you treat civilians. That is a sex fantasy where you are treating the woman as a sexual object. It's pretty much the definition of objectification.
@TrapBaby304 - Our theoretical guy could theoretically fuck his paralyzed wife for sexual release. But that wouldn't provide affectionate touch, some guys go to the strip club for that more than the sexual side.
@SJG - Please note I am not addressing you directly so there is no need to respond. If you did you wouldn't address my points anyway. You would just talk about how this invades your personal privacy. As always whether online or F2F I can easily out debate you.
You say you want to do as little as possible. For that reason alone, I would never have any dealings with you, not even a $1 stage tip.
If you are working with those with disabilities, yes that is a challenging vocation. I do respect that. All the more reason to change some US laws.
TFP: Yes, many people do go to strip clubs for escape, and the clubs try to cater to that want. But seeking escape is a symptom of things not right in someone's life. Usually its the working to earn to spend squirrel cage.
In any event, the women tend to do what is expected and what gets them money. But this does not mean that that is what they really like. People seem not to understand, but in our local no touching clubs, I very often get along extremely well with dancers.
PaulDrake, Married guys who go to strip clubs, even no touching clubs, they are still engaging in marital infidelity. Saying that that is some kind of a band-aid to help the marriage continue is like saying that we should help criminals go straight by leaving minor stuff around for them to steal. Or its like saying that sipping alcohol on work place bathroom breaks is a good way to deal with alcoholism.
We have Swinger's Clubs, and most certainly in your metro, 4 of them.
https://www.nasca.com/united-states.html
Then we have marriage councilors, and we have divorce lawyers. Living while lying to yourself is never any good.
Subraman wrote, "I actually don't want to see strippers kissing middle-aged guys in the front room either. So I'm fine with clubs having policies against it"
So Subra, does that mean that if TJ style clubs started opening in the US, you would not ever want to visit them, have to see things you don't like?
SJG
US Senate Judiciary Committee, Live
https://www.democracynow.org/
If it’s a really good mixed drink, I’ll DFK the heck out of it.
In many of your more down scale clubs the management does not have that much of a whip to crack. If they expect the women to show up, they have to let them do things there way and just look away.
We have had girls DFKing from the stage, and DFKing from lying on the bar
Countryman is telling it like it is. He has been enlightened, he has seen that the world does not need to be one of suffering. People do not need to be slaving away for Heaven. We can Heaven right in the here and now!
SJG
"American dancers do not want to make out with guests. Period. Stop blaming the clubs, blame the 99.999% of American dancers who find this practice disgusting."
So lets then talk about San Francisco, your no alcohol nude DV, 20s, Eden, Darlings, New Century, and Centerfolds.
At which of these clubs can girls sit with customers, or on their laps, in the main seating area, where it does not count as a dance?
Of course the women will always want tips for any and all attention. No objection to that. And of course the house does need to make money in one way or another. No objection to that either.
But if a girl cannot sit up close or on your lap, but instead has to get you to agree to a time and money formula for a dance, that not only unreasonably raises the cost, it spoils the development of intimate rapport which can be established.
Lap dancing started in San Franciso, and it meant lap sitting. And Jim and Artie Mitchell established the legality of this by going through a felony criminal trial. With a girl sitting on your lap while you feed her money, an intimate rapport can very easily be established. Far better than "buying a dance".
So again, 20's, Eden, Darlings, New Century, Centerfolds, can girls sit up close or on your lap in the regular seating, without it being pre-agreed to as a dance? And then, is this common?
If there is such a prohibition, will the parties actually be penalized, or will bouncers intercede?
SJG
Yes, at dives across the country, bosses really don't have much of a whip to crack. If they want the women to show up, they just have to let them do what they want, and then just look the other way.
So this is when the women respond to your money! :) :) :)
We even had one underground place doing Front Room FS. And of course there was all manner of DATYing, BJ, and DFKing too. Those Latinas were beloved.
The places that try to regulate the women, force it all into the booths and back rooms, these are the modern version of a clip joint.
And the worst is when they can convince the women that it is them making such rules, not the management.
Now when one operator can get very close to a total monopoly, and in a really cool city like SF, they can just turn the whole thing into one big wallet draining operation.
So we have to find ways of getting more clubs open. Maybe not really strip clubs, not trying to out Deja Vu Deja Vu, but maybe set up some other way which better deals with the new realities.
And so back straight to what you say, many bouncers do not care what the girls do.
SJG
Now that is topless w/ alcohol and food. It is not then the best place to explore the limits, as the alcohol license makes it easier for the authorities to enforce.
But DV owns every strip club in San Francisco except for MBOT and Crazy Horse. But it is quickly closing in on those too!
Though, some of there clubs are unbranded, or have been unbranded. This means that no one knows that DV owns and runs them. When they can do this, it can be better.
But how nice DV will let it get, in my view, depends upon how much competition they face. In San Francisco now, this is coming to be none.
SJG
san_jose_guy - commonly referred to as SJG this forum member is usually mocked or ignored, his comments should NOT be taken in any way as legitimate
TrapBaby304 - troll status likely
My issue with them pertains entirely to the front room, allowing the women to do it the way they want, not trying to regulate it and force it all into the back room.
The more the front room unstructured friendliness, the better. The girl can still be getting money, but it should not have to be set up as a dance. Let it be an unstructured open ended interaction. This is after all what determines the quality of the back room and the likely hood of waking up in the mornings with the girl.
Let it be like it has been in our underground, where there are front room makeout sessions. No one in San Francisco is going to try and say that that is illegal.
Let the women do it their way. Experienced dancers are admit, 'wanna dance' is bullshit. Front room friendliness is what works.
SJG
"Wanna Dance?" is inviting the guy to say no. Front room friendliness does not have to leave that as an option.
SJG
This rebuttal right here is my problem with you, SJG. Any use of the club that doesn't go along with your approach to the club and you call it a problem. In this case you determine that someone using the club as an escape is 'a symptom of things not right on someone's life'. First of all, you're assuming, the same thing you scold people on this forum about when talking about you. Second, even if there was something not right in that person's life, is it any of your business? They use the club as an escape, the girls get paid, the customer is happy. You make it sound as though a person who's going through problems in his life shouldn't go to the club. Who the hell are you to decide that?
Bottom line, same story with you. People don't follow your script for their time in the club and you have a problem with it. You won't budge from that position which is why we'll never see eye to eye.
san_jose_guy - commonly referred to as SJG this forum member is usually mocked or ignored, his comments should NOT be taken in any way as legitimate
TrapBaby304 - troll status likely
I am sorry if when you go to the clubs, they don't have women there who evoke feelings in you.
I mean, strip clubs are always fine tuned well oiled machines for separating marks from their money. They have a great deal in common with carnival freak shows.
But the good news is that the women are exactly what they appear to be. Some guys believe that they are FemBots. But this is not true. No deception is being employed.
So I for one, no matter how the club is run, always treat the women as civilians. And I do want to know them and have civilian style sex with them and be waking up in the mornings with them.
Sex without kissing is bullshit. But the place to remedy this is not in the back room, it is in the front room.
San Francisco was awesome, and mostly this came down to no front room rules.
After that front room makeout session is underway, and when it is time for more, then you invite your girl to the back room. Then you take her home with you to continue.
SJG
A bunch of mongers boycotting strip clubs aint gonna change any damn laws in the US to allow whorehouses. He, Countryman, and whoever else can stage their boycott if they want. I'll be in the good mileage clubs enjoying myself.
San Francisco clubs used to be great. The main difference now is in the regulation of the front room, trying to force all the action into the back room.
Unstructured front room fraternizing is one of the main benefits of the strip club venue.
Experienced dancers insist that that is how they get the most money.
DV right now is doing a very bad job of reaching the aficionado market. Its shareholders are suffering as a result.
SJG
DV's share holders are being squeezed by these excessive clip joint style clubs.
SJG
But on the otherhand, they also talk about escorting on Stripper Web. And then it is expected and they don't seem to have any problem with it. Well, I think it safe to say that these are not the same girls.
So lots of people here have kissed strippers. In TJ, but also in the US. More Back room than front room, and more OTC.
Any feeling that the girls find it 'disgusting"? Or it that just Stripper Web talk, and made by the ones who don't kiss.
The one's I have kissed certainly did not show any sense of finding it 'disgusting', quite the contrary.
In our strict no touching clubs, it is the girls who are initiating it. And then with others, after I kissed them, they responded with a further escalation of their own. These were girls wanting either OTC, or the back room.
If you knew that a girl who seemed to be trying to engage with you would find kissing you to be 'disgusting', would that influence you willingness to keep engaging with her, and to be handing her money?
Might that influence how you responded to 'wanna dance?'
SJG
Would it change how you felt about relating to the girl if you knew she felt that the idea of kissing you was 'disgusting"?
Do you think this is kind of a stripper web phenomenon. girls who are not being very open with customers, standing back saying that they are better than the others?
SJG
F-35
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_M…
Pre-DV, San Francisco clubs were really loose. No real rules for the front room. And then in the 90's it was all completely off the charts. And then with girl on girl action on stage, often including open tongue kissing, all I can say is the lap sitting was awesome!
And lots of accounts of extreme dives across the country where girls are in effect defying you to start making out with them.
And then of course we have so many now coming back with reports from TJ.
So I ask again of Vu, of their 5 no alcohol nude SF clubs, 20's, Eden, Darlings, Century, Centerfolds,
1. Can willing girls sit with customers or on their laps, in the main seating area so that it does not have to be structured as a 'dance' and with the house getting money?
2. If a front room makeout session were to occur, would anyone try to stop it or would either of the parties be penalized?
And then also how about TJ. I won't ask about Pahrump.
SJG
Go All The Way
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ULL7apmA…
Not for free of course, but as lap dancing originally was in San Francisco, before DV. It is an open arrangement between you and the girl. And generally you will be feeding her money. What else happens is between you and she.
SJG
Go All The Way
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ULL7apmA…
So going back to what I posted earlier:
This is not a new topic:
https://www.tuscl.net/discussion.php?id=…
What I would say today is the following:
1. Patronize the dives and shit holes, and the MILF's where this is more likely to work.
2. Learn how to come on to women nicely. And in a strip club, be generous. Be open and honest about yourself, and select and approach a girl you really like. She will feel this. Eye contact, tone of voice, how you are talking to her. Then when it comes time, you just kiss her. You don't start a discussion about it, you kiss her.
3. Back room, take her home with you, continue to see her regularly.
4. Talk about this here on TUSCL and let some consensus develop, and promote the clubs that have the most front room makeout sessions.
5. DV is not the enemy, but we need to find some way to open more clubs, like in San Francisco. This is not to take money away from DV, it is to restore San Francisco to the cutting edge. I have some ideas here.
6. Try to get laws changed.
7. Be nice to your stripper mistresses and take good care of them.
8. Also look to counter culture, as often there the rules will be looser and the love will be free. My organization, not a nation state, not a strip club, not for the public, it will still deliver for our members stripper quality mind blowing sex daily. Other people may have other approaches, but which still work.
SJG
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ULL7apmA…
http://www.adelitasbartijuanamexico.com/…
https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5495/9624…
san_jose_guy - commonly referred to as SJG this forum member is usually mocked or ignored, his comments should NOT be taken in any way as legitimate
So you don't want to make that kind of agreement, not until you are going to move to the back room with her for FS, and after the front room makeout session.
You can and should be feeding her money before that. But the final agreement should not be until after it is time to move to the back room, as your pants will be coming down!
And even if you can't do FS-ITC, you still want to stay in the main seating until you have got that front room makeout session going. DATYing her in the back room has always worked well for me. She will instinctively recognize the fact that you are saving your load for her. So then get her outside ASAP.
Don't go for ITC ejaculation services unless it is in her pussy, and after that front room makeout session.
SJG
Burritozilla
http://burritozilla.com/
Raspberries - Go All The Way
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ULL7apmA…
http://www.adelitasbartijuanamexico.com/…
https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5495/9624…
You took what you learned in TJ and brought it back home to KY. It was in how you approached and engaged with her, how you talked to her and what you talked to her about, and how you gave priority to free form front room fraternizing, over 'dances".
AWESOME!
https://www.tuscl.net/discussion.php?id=…
SJG
Don McLean - American Pie
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7yHTpGog…
san_jose_guy - commonly referred to as SJG this forum member is usually mocked or ignored, his comments should NOT be taken in any way as legitimate
Don't need to do it very often. Select the girl you like, the one you want to be waking up in the mornings with, and approach her yourself.
SJG