Why do some UHM clubs never get busted?

Why should aw enforcement go after them?

Not saying they should (prostitution should be legal), just curious how some clubs can offer them for so long and not get busted.

I suspect revenue sharing agreements help

Chicago actually has at least 5 clubs with known extras (Arnie's, Club O, Club 390, Atlantis and Blackjack's, although South Elgin is a ways away from Chicago) and another with UHM (Jimmy's). Not sure about Ocean these days, but i think it's still at least UHM. Almost all of those clubs are in quite sketchy areas (Harvey, Chicago Heights, Ford Heights), to put in nicely. And there are a couple UHM clubs in Northwest Indiana that might be considered near Chicago. I think Fantasy got busted fairly recently.

I think Arnie's were just being too blatant and careless. Club 390 actually has LE at the club on weekend nights checking customers for firearms and Club O has metal detectors. So they give less reason for outside cops to be visiting. Atlantis has valet and high cover that create a natural filter to keep riffraff out. As long as dancers aren't stupid and outright proposition customers, it's up to the customer to try for extras in the more private dance areas (or virtually completely private in the rooms) partially eliminating them from being undercover LE, so the stings and busts aren't as easy to do. I'm sure the clubs do pay off LE as well. I'm not sure why the FBI would get involved unless they knew there was big time drug dealing, sex trafficking or illegal gang activity in the club.

Having a good relationship with the powers that are in charge costs a few bucks but it pays big dividends. Isn’t that obvious.

As long as they are smart and operate quietly, LE generally doesn’t have a reason to go after them. If they allow drugs or gangs or are blatant about what goes on, they put a target on their backs. The UHM clubs that don’t get busted have smart management that knows what lines they can’t cross.

I would think only those on the inside would really know - a lot of it probably has to do w/ location, location, location - i.e. not so great neighborhoods where not many folks would put up a fuss or have the power to do something about it (e.g. East St Louis, etc).

Also I would assume greasing political-palms - I assume most of the time cops just act as henchmen; i.e. they don't really-care what goes on in SCs but have to act when either citizens complain about a club or a politician wants to raise a stink.

Certain things will also put a club in the crosshairs of authorities (underage dancers; heavy drug trafficking; tax-evasion or money-laundering, etc).

Also - some clubs may not be a good fit w/ their location - i.e. may be in a mostly residential vs commercial or industrial area and thus may be an eyesore that the neighborhood does not want - or maybe the area around the club has been targeted for redevelopment and the club is now an eyesore which does not fit w/ the redevelopment plans.

At least around here clubs tend to not get busted unless other illegal activities are taking place. Drugs, liquor license violations, illegal immigration/suspected human trafficking, etc.

Most of the cities where clubs are extra friendly have more serious things for cops to focus on. However, when you bring these more serious criminal activities into the club the cops are sure to follow.

I would think that part of it is that it's not really a good look for cops to spend 10s of thousands of dollars to hang out at strip clubs on-shift in cities that are millions in debt. From what I have seen, management being proactive in keeping drug activity out goes a long way, too.

Yup. Either the cops have better things to do(bust actual crime) or the club is making their bribery/extortion payment on time every time.

The club I used to get a lot of extras at always did their best to keep drugs out of the club. They would even tell the pot smokers to park in the lot for the unoccupied building across the street so it wouldn't be on their property.

Why aren't Detroit strip clubs busted? It is a mystery that I cannot explain. Detroit cops and politicians are renowned for their honesty, integrity and rectitude, and they would never take bribes to overlook illegal activity.

The true Detroit clubs are actually busted/raided fairly consistently. The ones that aren't are in the suburbs.

It’ also has a lot to do with what problems actually exist in the community where they are located, if it’s a high crime area and there are not a lot of 911 calls from a club it tends to be overlooked by LE, another thing to keep in mind is the local LEOs are generally tasked by various agencies rather than setting their own priorities they take orders from various city councils, or local community boards and a smart operator will have a relationship with someone who can deflect attention from his operations.

Had a club owner once tell me his top three expenses were booze, rent and payoffs.

One club in the "Detroit" area was used as a money laundry service for the local police leadership. Extras were easy in those years ,now ,not so much. Other clubs where extras are easy are pretty careful about drug use on premise and age and country of origin to avoid trafficking charges.

In most cities, the cops have much higher priorities than blowjobs for hire.

Until the media runs an expose, and then it's their top priority.

Do you think if a club does it’s best to: keep drugs put, make sure all dancers licenses are in order (where applicable), liquor license is in good standing and all permits/city taxes/etc. are in good standing maybe some over aggressive lapdances can be overlooked?

Local law enforcement's priorities & theories of crime reduction, local citizen outcry, plus potential cozy relationships between the club and law enforcement, dictate who gets busted. Here in SF, as a whole the citizens don't care, and law enforcement thinks some light prostitution in the clubs is better than street prostitution and potential slavery in AMPs. After many years of not busting strip clubs, some years back law enforcement made some arrests in a strip club, specifically to punish the embarrass the DA; the DA simply refused to file charges against any of the strippers or the club, absolutely NO FUCKS were given by the residents, and there has not been a bust since. Which, of course, leads to my usual rant of: this city had the potential to be the best SC city in the country (and arguably was, from mid-90s to mid-00s), given the progressive views on sexuality, but deja vu absolutely destroyed it, and the real estate prices have destroyed it further

^ @Subraman I clubbed SF in the 90s and for sure LE allowed extras in strip clubs as a better alternative to pushing prostitution into the streets and AMPs.

And the entire Bay Area is hot mess when it comes to strip clubs. It is an ideal place for it but yes real estate costs, local laws, and the corporate business of it is killing it. Why Oakland pretty much doesn't have any clubs speaks volumes.

I was in Mitchell Brothers in the 90s. Two cops, in uniform, were in the club and I had the impression they were there to be serviced. There are different ways to pay off LE.

MBOT in the 90s = brothel

There is a reason Club 390, 'O', and Atlantis do not get busted for extras because they are seldom give extras other than a high mileage grind.

^ I won't go into who gives extras where and when or what even constitutes extras, but more than a few girls and more than seldom, will do more than a high mileage grind just in the regular dance area. Heck some of the booths at Atlantis have a strong cum smell in the carpeting according to the girls who put the face close to it. They really need to replace or clean those carpets and seats. If you think the girls at O, particularly the black ones, are just doing dances in the rooms after you pay $175-300 and another $25-50 to the bouncer and another $50-100 to the girl, then i guess there really is no sex in those champagne rooms. Same thing with the CRs and executive lounge at 390 which is even more expensive, but the bouncers aren't as greedy. Atlantis might be a "little" less in frequency than those two and of course not all the girls at any of those places do them, but it "definitely" happens. I don't think the frequency is the reason for the lack of busts though...

-->"MBOT in the 90s = brothel"

The big difference, of course, is that "Follies quality dancers" shouldn't be what pops into your mind. MBOT in the 90s = full extras with Spearmint Rhino / Sapphires Las Vegas quality dancers. That's what we lost

In Detroit, the club managers seem to know all the vice cops and they put the word out when one of them comes in. Been that way for years.

I suspect that LE in every community knows exactly what's going on in their clubs. Probably more than we do.

Some of these clubs are in unincorporated areas. No complaints. No jurisdiction. No problem.

I was under the impression Oakland was kinda a shithole, I wonder why there are no strip clubs there

@Papi_Chulo yes Oakland is kinda shitty. And that's what I'm saying. It's a perfect city for divey strip clubs, and a crying shame that it doesn't have any. It's full of fine sistas too.

"... It's full of fine sistas too ..."

All the more reason for them to have a lot of clubs

:)

^ It's a crying shame, I tell ya...

In Oakland they have an ordinance and they believe they can prohibit strip clubs.

There used to be 3 listed on TUSCL, and before that 4.

The ordinance is completely unconstitutional.

SJG

JS69 found the newspaper article about the ordinance. Remember that some years back Oakland went through a real high homicide rate spree.

SJG

Detroit became known for extras in the 2000's because of the poor local economy, and just the fact Detroit police had bigger things to worry about. It's not the same now new leadership in the police force and government have lead to crackdowns on how open clubs can operate now. Clubs are not really allowed to have completely private dance areas in Detroit proper now.

No strip clubs in Oakland is why International Blvd is so full of hookers. I mean a ridiculous amount. Like a 2 mile stretch of every corner having at least 4 scantily dressed pros, even in the winter. If they allowed some clubs maybe they could clean up those corners.

Locally, the cops would very quickly close down a UHM club.

We had one front room FS underground, then mini-van in parking lot FS, and we have AMPs. But this county is very highly policed and is influenced by some very vocal residents.

" Like a 2 mile stretch of every corner having at least 4 scantily dressed pros, even in the winter."

I posted some videos about Oakland, International Blvd, Outdoor Papi Chulo Mode

SJG

Front room FS and parking lot FS actually provide more plausible deniability of the owner. Probably they get no cut of it either.

People have posted about "Chair Forts" in the early days of Dallas and Houston UHM. Probably the same reasons.

ah yes the good ol' chair-forts ... BTDT ... :)

It seems to me ... the following musings just off the top of my head, no proof, not claiming they're totally right, might not be, but it seems to me just now ...

For Ultra High Mileage, I think that a proper set-up for a club is, that it's in a generally uninhabited area, light-industrial or similar, without schools residences or churches around. But the area is urban, and the urban dwellers NEARBY are familiar with automobile travel, hence are willing to get to that location. Such that it doesn't really attract attention, and nobody complains about it, nobody demands that the City Fathers look into it and "wipe out the moral blight that plagues our homestyle community etc. etc.". Also, that it is in a location that has OTHER policing concerns of higher priority, either because the area has grown rapidly and outgrown its traditional tax-base (the small old-style government leaders haven't gotten around to rearranging the structures in order to spend the new incoming money; or, they haven't even gotten the new incoming money into their pockets yet because they failed to incorporate, or haven't started the big-scale exploitation of incoming business revenue), hence there are only a relatively low number, just a few, double-checks in a mildly over-burdened law-enforcement system. The cops have more to do, more places to go, might not be a lot of crime necessarily, but there's a lot of square-mileage and total human population per officer or per squad car or per precinct. This is the story of a lot of Florida -- the North Miami area (in general, speaking in terms of the whole metro from tip of peninsula upwards) is relatively new growth and development, and the HM clubs in that area are generally in zoned light-industrial areas. Those areas started as outskirts dump-truck territory, but they have have, over time, become surrounded by the expansion of residence and resort areas while essentially having been bypassed by the northbound growth. Similarly, much of Tampa and its metro-area have, in the past 20 years, seen enough growth that the policing is concerned with something other than minor anti-vice operations to arrest for "victim-less" crimes. San Francisco (since MBO'FT was mentioned in this thread) has had an air of "tolerance" of outlandish behavior for about fifty years now, thanks partly to its role just after WWII as home-base for returning Pacific Theatre servicemen; and it has been expanding and growing, especially in terms of residential markets, ever since then, same as Florida, so the "tolerance" quotient got aided and abetted by the jurisdictional limitations.

Another thing I often notice, is jurisdictional lines. If there's ONE huge municipality with control over everything for miles and miles, there's not very much enjoyable adult-oriented business. I'm thinking in terms of, for example, Minneapolis, which has a wide ranging city-council area of control; or inner-city Detroit, which is a large square-mile area with no exciting clubs at all. Just outside Detroit proper is where the excitement starts. Whereas, if the city is actually not one jurisdiction, but instead is made up of a ton of independent, and generally conflicting or competing, smaller cities, and has had a tradition of being that way since the beginning (not just presently breaking up into newly smaller units), then it tends to have better strip clubs and other over-the-line adult services industry businesses. Tampa and Miami areas are actually a thousand small cities each; Houston as well; whereas Memphis and NYC and Cleveland and ... oh, can't remember any others right now ... have much less varied jurisdictional requirements, and much worse strip-clubbing options. The tricks in the good places seem to be, that people don't feel "invested" in a "local community" near their homes, since they live in a rather safe uninvaded subdevelopment area, and then drive along highways to the downtowns for work. Thus, a morality crusade won't catch attention with many voters in the local elections for each of those suburbs. People probably don't even know what the lines of their suburbs are! "Wait, am I in the same town as Pony Prancing Pussies or not? I don't know, I never go that way ... and even though it's right across the street from my kids' school, the 'street' you have to cross is seventy-four lanes of speeding traffic, two over-passes, six on-ramps, and a double-cloverleaf, so it's not like it's actually right across a STREET." Etc..

So, it helps if the city is in a space which was originally settled in "frontier" times as a set of independent municipalities and unincorporated areas, and then conglomerated into a bunch of residential cities, none of which have their own downtown any more. This is almost all of the West Coast of the Tampa area, all of Pinellas and Pasco counties areas (Pinellas is the "thumb" that cuts the water in Tampa Bay off from the rest of the Gulf of Mexico; Pasco is the next county north of it; Tampa is in -- is almost ALL of -- Hillsborough county). Each of the Pinellas jurisdictions was once an orange-grove town, nothing else. Now it's nothing but sub-divisions, hundreds of three-mile-regions that are generally perfectly rectangular, and the roads run at right angles outside of each of them, but within each of them are winding lanes (named for British or French country words) and thousands and thousands of ranch houses. Disappear into one of those sub-divs and you never know what's going on along the main streets just one mile to the back or front of your development, especially if you only ever pass those places in daytime rush hour. But the small towns insist on maintaining their independence from the Tampa Bay conglomerate -- St. Pete, sure, and Clearwater; but also podunk joints like Pinellas Park, Largo, Seminole, Largo, Kenneth City, Lealman, Dunedin, High Point, Safety Harbor ... they're all 99% commuting bedroom homes, but the 1% wants to pretend they have a quaint downtown for Chamber of Commerce purposes. Some of them have their own non-incorporated or non-zoned or industrial-zoned areas. That's where the HM clubs are, if you need one within the Tampa area. Funny, fifteen years ago it was Tampa proper that had the higher-mileage clubs, as well as the "lingerie modeling" places that essentially advertised full service, whereas Pinellas was home-owned and quaint and wouldn't let that sort of thing thrive. Now the vice has flip-flopped, Tampa is enjoying an inner-city revival, and the mileage has crossed the Bay to Pinellas where bedroom community voters don't know whether the club is in their town or the neighboring one.

So that's the good thing about suburbia. The right kind of suburbia can engender the right kind of strip clubs. Look at Toronto, for example. There are very few noteworthy strip clubs within the actual borders of the city of Toronto proper. But in the major-sized suburbs a mere map's demarcation line away, next door to Toronto, in Mississauga, Etobicoke, East York, Brampton, and a hundred other outlying places that ONCE were farm villages a two days' journey by cart from the Fort York settlement center, now there are wide suburban driving lanes to get to the strip clubs, and wide suburban mileage latitudes in the strip clubs.

So, aside from some of the more obvious means of avoiding law-enforcement -- paying someone, bribing, making sure you don't get onto the local church watch-list, not allowing any sort of high-profile crime, not allowing any crime that isn't viewed these days as "victim-less" (which is a preposterous notion, in the age of human trafficking, but that's a different question) -- aside from all that, it's also, IMO, a demographic and geographical phenomenon, something arisen out of America's fascination with the Driving Suburb. Without them, we'd still be plying our vice in the downtowns and that might be nice, too, but it would certainly be a different flavor. Thank GOODNESS for those barren tracts of land that George Bailey was selling to Mister Martini in "It's a Wonderful Life," every one of those winding lanes named "Brookshire Hilldale" and "La Provence en Rose" has the potential to have a stripper gyrating in a club just across the multi-lane highway from the cul-de-sac at the end of it.

Hmm, come to think of it ... rule of thumb: Latitude of road = latitude of mileage.

If a strip club is located on a wide road, of several travel lanes, many stop-lights, long light delays, multiple turn lanes, and access lanes between travel lanes and major parking lots, then the strip club is more likely to have higher-mileage and opportunities to break the rules of a local jurisdiction. If the club is located on a small local street with stop-signs rather than stop-lights, and with residences that front the same road at the same distance from the road that the club is from the road, then the club is likely to be a non-mileage club without opportunity for extras. If there are wide long distances between the various parking lots of the various clubs and businesses, then that wide latitude in parking means wide latitude in extras. But if there are short distances from one business to another, right next door to one another and to residences, churches, or other small businesses, then narrow latitude in lot-size and parking means narrow latitude in extras.

Just a thought. I'm sure there are exceptions. :)

We had the opposite phenomenon in Atlanta, but I guess it's consistent with what you're saying.

When we had large chunks of Fulton, Gwinnett, DeKalb, and Cobb counties that were unincorporated, strip clubs and other adult businesses thrived in those areas cause the county govt and LE we're more concerned with running courts and jails. The exception was Atlanta proper, which was adult business friendly.

Then, the trend started with boutique cities, and it seemed like the first thing every boutique government wanted to do was to clear out the adult businesses - strip clubs, massage parlors, bookstores, lingerie studios, etc

Following on what SirLapDance said about how it used to be in San Francisco, yes it was great! That was when and where I first learned about front room makeout sessions.

But since, its not just LE, maybe even not much of LE at all. Its been new management, turning the clubs into clip joints. by prohibiting front room friendliness.

You walk into such a club, you are being played as a CHUMP!

SJG

" That was when and where I first learned about front room makeout sessions."

sure it was. we believe you. now take your meds, eat your gravy, go to bed and dream of slim mexican hat dancing boys. lying psycho

damn phil, don't QUOTE HIM, that defeats the purpose of the "ignore" button LOL

(No big whoop, just joshin' ya ... :) ... )

"But since, its not just LE, maybe even not much of LE at all. Its been new management, turning the clubs into clip joints. by prohibiting front room friendliness.

You walk into such a club, you are being played as a CHUMP!

SJG"

Actually it isn't LE nor is it new club management that turned strip clubs into "clip joints". It is just your delusional mind still trapped in the 90s that is too stupid to realize that no modern strip club is a "clip joint" that prohibits front room friendliness because of also offering dances. Both options are on the table for a PL to spend money on as he sees fit in any strip club. Your ignorance of all of this and what modern strip clubs are about is what makes you the chump! If you would actually go to some and interact with actual strippers rather than fantasize about it from behind your keyboard , you would know this.

And any PL worth his salt based on actually going to strip clubs (as opposed to SJG who can only type from behind a keyboard as to what he *thinks* happens) can get civie dick tease and DFK time regardless of whether or not he gets dances, VIP, extras, or OTC with a stripper afterwards. Again, go to actually strip clubs and be an experienced monger/PL and you can get a stripper to drop her guard and be civie with you. It really isn't that special, SJG. All it really takes is money and some interpersonal skills with women. Just like getting dances takes money and negotiation.

The only chump in any strip club is the guy who expects more from getting a lap dance than LMAO actually getting a lap dance. And based on his posts, that's what SJG expects. He expects more than the common lap dance which is why he's so frustrated with it all. LOL that's why he goes to AMPs and underground Mexican bars instead. LMAO and he's too stupid to know how to parlay a lap dance into more, so he is a DFK only chump. He has no game to do anything else.

Offering 'dances' simply makes for the wrong choreography for interacting with the girl.

Numerous accounts and video of TJ, and then also of the most extreme US clubs, the girls offer or even initiate makeout sessions. Not with words, but with deeds. They do this because they are in competition with other girls for the back room money. "Wanna dance", does not compare at all with a front room makeout session. That latter locks the competition right out from the very start.

Anytime you have open minded experienced girls, and no real limits on front room or back room, front room makeout sessions with back room FS is how it will tend to go.

And then accounts of the early days of UHM in Dallas and Houston, and the chair forts. And then accounts of rural places where they don't even bother with such, but just take to couches in darkened corners to finish what they started. And really no different from what we had for a while, a group of girls bringing their own mini-van to the parking lot. More plausible deniability for the owner when there are no booths or back rooms. And no, the girls in such places like the one we had did not approach with "Wanna Dance".

The most aggressive girls are the ones who set the pace. The others either follow, or they might as well go home.

Accounts on TJ Amigos about clubs beyond the HK bar. At some the girls really don't give you any choice in the matter at all.

San Francisco could be that good, because of their tolerant LE and the decision to shift LE attention to the street as a means of 'harm reduction'.

And even at our own local clubs, depending on which bouncers are on duty, or if a girl is mad at the bosses and wants to affirm herself by setting up an OTC, DKFing is likely to ensue to set up OTC.

SJG