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5 years ago
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AtAboyStill learning to proofread
completely waxed, and as if I'm going on a date. I dress for it, too -- super casual but pulled together
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5 years ago
-->"One time I was with an out of town co-worker using my "I hardly ever go to these places" persona. He laughed and said I must look like Steve."
Believe it or not, I started using my own stripper name (Jean Luc, if you must know) many years ago, when I was married, basically under the fantasy that the type of scenario you just described might happen. In my case, at one point talking to my then-CF, I realized many of the strippers at my fave club, partied at the same clubs my then-wife and I partied at. Swapping "what did you do this weekend?" stories, we realized my wife and I had left a club, maybe 45 minutes before a few strippers I knew got there. I figured, well, maybe if a drunk stripper starts yelling to me but with the wrong name, I could play it off with the wife (or whatever friends I'm with) and exit. Years later, I ultimately dismissed this all as paranoia, and the whole thing as unrealistic ... and meanwhile, it worked out perfectly for you!
I still use a stripper name, even with nothing to hide. I just like the karmic balance that neither of us knows the other's real name
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5 years ago
Ya, C+ for me, easy choice to pass. And agree with minnow on a few nuanced details that may not be mentioned in every review, but that might either help me make the decision whether or not to go to the club (metal detector), and/or might help me set expectations while I'm there (annoying shot girl, watered down shots, wristband good for seductions). Also agree with minnow that I would have liked more detail on the dancers -- but as we've discussed and argued ad nauseum, I value dancer info far more than price info, in any case.
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5 years ago
-->"I have had better luck transitioning a CF to a SB. We still see each other ITC but OTC even more, often times just dates or hanging out. It has been a good ride honestly. If I didn't have genuine affection for her I wouldn't keep this up. I would say this is a rare thing because I can't see me doing this with anyone else. I never met a CF who I would want to. So my experience may be somewhat rare but it happened non the less."
Chowder, I've pretty much transitioned every one of my ATFs to an SB. I didn't realize it at the time, it's just the dynamic I enjoyed OTC as we got to know each other. Then I got on SA and realized that, hey, it's pretty identical to a (PPM) arrangement. I haven't really had an ATF at the SC for a few years, just a series of CFs, so all my SBs since then, I've found on SA. But I do have a bead on a stripper that has potential.
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5 years ago
Ish: the other shocking thing about SA is how many women are into ddlg. What's ddlg, I hear you asking. It's Dominant Daddy / Little Girl. It's domination play, with some age play tucked in, where the dynamic is that the "dominant daddy" dominates, punishes, and spoils his "little". Lots of women advertising for it outright, or subtly implying they're interested. It's a thing!
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5 years ago
One of the few downsides of SCing at no-extras clubs, is that I'm not tempted to kiss a girl who has blown 3 guys before I got to her.
My policy strictly for no-extras clubs:
LK: any stripper I'm attracted to, even if this is my first time meeting her
DFK: gotta know her a bit. This is a major offense at these clubs, so it's not common that strippers initiate this (I don't initiate)
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5 years ago
I am with you guys on most of these. Some exceptions:
KINKY: major turn-ON, not a turn-off
STUPID: No big deal. My major measure is how fun she is. I've met strippers who are not the sharpest tool in the shed, but they're fun, funny, charming, and interesting in other ways.
FAKE BOOBS: I am not a boob guy. I dislike fake boobs, but very easy to ignore for me, even bad boob jobs. I'm gonna have my face buried in her ass anyway
Additions to turn-offs:
NOT FUN: personality is huge. If she's not fun to drink with, she's out
FLAT ASS: mentioned above, but worth re-mentioning :)
HAIRSTYLE LIKE SKRILLEX: nuff said
FACE PIERCINGS ANYWHERE BUT HER EARS: lips nope septum nope labret nope eyebrow nope monroe nope. Nope nope nope. Dislike nostril but I'll tolerate it
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5 years ago
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CristobalI give in to sin because you have to make this life livable
-->"plus I don't want her to see messages from other women."
I think we both know you don't really have to worry about that 🤣🤣🤣
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5 years ago
Paps, I do agree that the sense of support and stability that she gets, through his wealth, is definitely part of it. But that's a very common part of regular romantic love also -- women are attracted to wealthy men in general. These are advice forums, the SBs have nothing to gain (no status gained) by admitting this. Whether it's "in love" or just expressions of affection and appreciation, this is the norm in sugaring. It might be impossible to believe for someone who has only built his worldview around SCs, but it's nevertheless true. That might also be why you (and the SW girls) can't believe anything but "one of you is going to feel screwed" applies to sugaring -- it doesn't. But SCs are the right place for people who believe that's the way it has to be, they'll have a harder time in arrangements.
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5 years ago
Paul: exactly!
Funny thing about StripperWeb: they occasionally have Sugarbaby threads. Not surprisingly, the toxic attitude they bring towards stripping, they apply towards sugaring. Total zero-sum-game, hustle and fuck the guy out of whatever you can, type thing.
Meanwhile, on the sugaring forums, most Sugardaddy's are like, I'd never have a stripper as an SB, they are non-stop hustle.
Basically, kind of what we see in this thread -- the SW girls (and many strippers) apply SC norms and hustle to arrangements, and have gotten a terrible reputation because of it. But I can say from personal experience, if you can find a stripper who can make the transition, strippers can be amazing SBs. They're hotter than most, more fun and spontaneous than most, are NOT going to develop inappropriate feelings.
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5 years ago
Justin: my obligation, as it were, is to go into things with a honest eye towards building an arrangement. I follow the arrangement norms: first date is a platonic meet-and-greet to gauge our chemistry and attraction before we further. I realize this part already sounds insane from an SC perspective, but it's the norm in sugar. If I'm not pretty wildly attracted, I'm done. Otherwise, I start seeing her for however long it works for us both. Maybe she goes back to college in August; maybe I realize the sex isn't so good. Maybe we can only see each other twice a month and I can fit in another SB.
-->"On SA there are TONS of SBs that develop genuine love for their SD."
This is one of the many things most guys here won't believe or internalize. The sugar forums are full of "oh shit I fell in love" stories -- most from SBs. One of many things that's different about arrangements.
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5 years ago
-->"Excellent thread, back and forth debate from the two different sides with minimal mud slinging and I'm sure we know why."
I'm not the slightest bit irritated at anyone on this thread -- and definitely not Warrior, I'm glad he posted it and that led to this discussion. It's a little weird, there should be shit-slinging by now
-->"Excellent thread, back and forth debate from the two different sides with minimal mud slinging and I'm sure we know why."
I can tell you with 100% certainty, that if I hadn't been sugaring the past few years, I'd be absolutely with Papi and the other guys -- basically, bringing SC ethics and norms, and naively applying them to arrangements. As it is, I've internalized the sugaring norms, and apply those instead. No way I would have had this outlook 4 years ago.
-->"Still, I think there's probably an equal amount of women as there are men who don't mind a P&D. Since as mentioned, there are a ton of strippers and escorts on the site now."
100% true. Even a few years ago when I started -- you can read my original article -- it was full of strippers and escorts. Waaaay worse now. In fact, my entire view may be wrong based on mistakenly believing Warrior's claim that these girls were all legit SBs. There's plenty of young women on the site who aren't bothering to be looking for an arrangement, even if they don't come off as hardened escorts.
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5 years ago
nice:
- It's already the case that there's a zillion men behaving badly on SA. Yes, that makes it easy for me to look good in comparison, and as you know, I can use all the help I can get. But there's consequences to this: nice women driven off the site in disgust (and sometimes shame), and others hardening and becoming more jaded. None of that is good -- the place is already overrun by hustlers, scammers, and escorts, I want the actual SBs to stick around, so I get a shot at them.
- I do think there are some questions of personal ethics here. My ethical framework may be contradictory and illogical, but I have one :) In this case, I truly believe that pretending to be an SD in order to leverage that into a P&D with a naive young woman whose mistake is believing you're an SD, all knowing that there's some emotional implications to her, is just not something I'm interested in doing. Perhaps partly, this is due to the fact that I occasionally read some forums that have a mix of SDs and SBs, and I can see how getting P&Ded impacts the women.
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5 years ago
Paps, like I said -- it boils down to whether you think deceiving a 19 year old (or however old) or taking advantage of her naivete into a P&D that you know is somewhat traumatizing to her, is something you think is ok or not. I definitely don't (and that's about as nice as I can put it). I get it that many of you think it's fabulous. And this isn't about "SB disappointed it didn't turn out the way she wanted" -- her mistake is not properly vetting, she engaged with someone who never had any intention of following through.
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5 years ago
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CristobalI give in to sin because you have to make this life livable
Muddy: she at least have good craic?
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5 years ago
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CristobalI give in to sin because you have to make this life livable
Especially on a date, I consider that a MAJOR faux pas. Although I have to say, on my "real" dates -- basically women 40s and up -- this basically never happens. The only time I'm on a date and a woman checks her phone, is when I'm on an OTC or arrangement date... those girls check their phones for sure.
When my kids were younger, I used to do the "My kids are home alone, I need to keep my phone out, and answer it if they call"; my dates were always understanding, and they were always in the same position. Now my kids are old enough that I don't have to do that, but if I go on a date with a woman in her lower 40s, sometimes she gives me the "kids are home" pitch, and I'm fine with it. But again, older women don't check their phones on dates. At least not hte initial dates; maybe when they get comfortable after date 3 LOL
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5 years ago
Papi: I don't blame dancers for inexperienced PLs that fall in love with them. In fact, my language exactly mirrors my language here: the PL is ultimately responsible for his own actions. But that doesn't stop me from condemning a dancer who knows a PL is in love with her, and uses that knowledge to wipe him out in a romance con. She's likely not a good person. And he's an idiot for not taking responsibility for himself.
Exactly similar with this situation: naive 19-year-old should vet her potential SDs. Knowing that she's a naive 19-year-old who is naively assuming he's on an arrangement site because he's an SD, a man decades older should not deceive her into a P&D, especially knowing it's emotional taxing to her. Yes, she is responsible for her actions. That doesn't make it right to exploit her naivete,
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5 years ago
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CristobalI give in to sin because you have to make this life livable
Agree! Exactly my point: it is non negotiable for me not to have my phone on me. But I also don't check my phone at all, in the presence of my date... if she goes to the bathroom, though, it's fair game :) I often come back from the bathroom to see her putting her phone away, too.
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5 years ago
Well yeah, it's nice for us SDs, and also nice for guys who are not interested in being SDs but want to take advantage of the system. The question is: she is going in thinking he's in good faith an SD looking for an arrangement. If he has absolutely no intention of being an SD or pursuing an arrangement, and is taking advantage of her naive belief, to P&D her even though the girls feel bad about it ... well, if you guys think this is cool, that's fine. I don't, and so I don't engage in it. I'm not looking to deceive and traumatize an SB. If I'm looking for a transactional one-time thing, I look elsewhere
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5 years ago
PPM = arrangement, the two are not different. Allowance vs PPM is just how the SD and SB choose to structure the $ portion. All SDs start with PPM (unless they're dumb); some transition to allowance eventually, but plenty of arrangements stay with PPM. The SDs have too much power here for the SBs to force a change, so they (the SBs) are always vulnerable to P&Ds, they just have to vet and hope that SD is being honest that he intends to pursue an arrangement, or there's some other ways SBs try to avoid P&Ds when possible
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5 years ago
From here on out, I do not approve any reviews that fail to mention the adequacy of the craic
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5 years ago
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TFPAdventures of Assjobman
-->" Nicole is apparently real"
Two people met Nicole in person. Was she as vapid, banal, desperate-for-male-attention in person, as on the forum? Or is that part a persona? I don't see how anyone could stand to talk with her for more than 15 minutes if she is as vapid in person as she is here.
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5 years ago
Paps, maybe I'm completely deluded, but I think at least as my ATFs have gone, it's been win-win. I'm not looking to take advantage of anyone -- although I do want a good deal for myself, obviously. This might be the crux of the difference in outlook
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5 years ago
Justin: totally agree that sugaring is part of the sex industry. The women involved should realize that's what they're doing; I think many do, but some don't... but that's really another interesting side topic. Whether or not she thinks she's in the sex industry, if she's an SB, she IS looking for an SD and an arrangement -- not a pump and dump. The smart and experienced ones specifically vet their potential SDs to ensure this is the case, before meeting them. The naive ones still are on the assumption that they're meeting a guy who is not just fucking his way through SA, but a guy who actually is an SD and intends to start an arrangement if things go well. The naive ones SHOULD be vetting the men better, but don't always, so they get P&D'ed and traumatized a few times, then learn from it or quit the site. It's the "quit the site" part that sucks for guys who are actually interested in being SDs.
It's also worth mentioning that, since FOSTA/SESTA, there's EVERY kind of woman on SA. There's young women who are not hardened escorts, but are not really SBs either; maybe Warrior has been up front that he's not at all interested in being an SD, but has been running into those types
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5 years ago
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CristobalI give in to sin because you have to make this life livable
Paps: exactly. Maybe there will be some weird situation where me calling out will help me. But more importantly, since I CAN be contacted by my kids or any other loved ones, I am available.
Cristobal, I realize, of course, that we used to survive without cellphones. We also used to not wear seatbelts; all of us here survived that, too. Obviously, cell phones are not quite like seatbelts -- hell, inappropriate cellphone use in the car actually costs lives. But, in the unlikely situation my kids need me right now, and I have a tool that can help them do that, I'm not going to leave that tool home. I won't be looking at it when my date is across from me ... although, it's not uncommon that people with younger kids explain "I need to leave my phone out in case of emergency with my kids", all parents understand that.