Sugar Addiction Update
Warrior15
Anywhere there are Titties.
I did a Topic about 6 weeks ago about my new venture into the world of Sugar Babies:
https://www.tuscl.net/discussion.php?id=…
I have had a Ball so far. I have had dates with 8 different girls during the past two months. During those dates, I have done anal, bare back, sleepovers and threesomes. Just about every time I have a date, we have sex multiple times. (2-3) Virtually every girl wants to see me again. I have gone on second dates with five of them and third dates with three of them.
But I am seeing a downside to sugar babes. When you go on an OTC date with a stripper, there is a certain detachment that stripper has. Sure she acts like your girlfriend when she is with you. But after the deed, the professional stripper completely forgets about you once you part ways. Sugar babes are wired differently. They all seem to want to develop a relationship. They want a long term arrangement. I think some are actually looking for a boyfriend. So parting ways is almost like breaking up with a girlfriend.
I have two girls now that are starting to talk about long term arrangements and going exclusive. We've thrown around numbers and it actually is tempting if you want to stick to one girl. One girl suggested $1500 a month, but then I could see her as often as I wanted. Do the math, if I see her twice a week, then that becomes less than $200 per session.
But I'm doing this because I like the variety. I don't want a paid mistress/girlfriend. Also, I haven't been into a strip club in almost two months. And I'm way behind in my Porn viewing.
https://www.tuscl.net/discussion.php?id=…
I have had a Ball so far. I have had dates with 8 different girls during the past two months. During those dates, I have done anal, bare back, sleepovers and threesomes. Just about every time I have a date, we have sex multiple times. (2-3) Virtually every girl wants to see me again. I have gone on second dates with five of them and third dates with three of them.
But I am seeing a downside to sugar babes. When you go on an OTC date with a stripper, there is a certain detachment that stripper has. Sure she acts like your girlfriend when she is with you. But after the deed, the professional stripper completely forgets about you once you part ways. Sugar babes are wired differently. They all seem to want to develop a relationship. They want a long term arrangement. I think some are actually looking for a boyfriend. So parting ways is almost like breaking up with a girlfriend.
I have two girls now that are starting to talk about long term arrangements and going exclusive. We've thrown around numbers and it actually is tempting if you want to stick to one girl. One girl suggested $1500 a month, but then I could see her as often as I wanted. Do the math, if I see her twice a week, then that becomes less than $200 per session.
But I'm doing this because I like the variety. I don't want a paid mistress/girlfriend. Also, I haven't been into a strip club in almost two months. And I'm way behind in my Porn viewing.
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96 comments
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Duh.
That's why it's called "Seeking Arrangement" and not "Backpage." I think there's more overlap in attitude b/w ITC and going online. Just far more choices and you eliminate the "friction" of a brick-and-mortar establishment.
I have this 21-yr-old blonde instagram model I've been seeing for a year come August. She stood me up at the meet&greet.
Seems like they are pretty quick to get in the sack.
There's lots of escorts on SA. The answer is, if you follow Warrior's process (or what I'm guessing his process is), you don't know. Although I don't think someone who is using SA that way should care -- Warrior (like a number of others) is basically using SA as a backpage replacement for quick scores. And arguably, for the ones who are "true SBs", taking advantage of the fact that they're hoping he's a "True SD".
If what you want is an arrangement, rather than backpage replacement, then you'd follow a different process than what Warrior is likely doing.
Yeah, that's exactly why I came to the conclusion that I've really been treating my ATFs as SBs all along. I tend to do my OTCs with a single ATF, and basically it always ends up more arrangement-y -- I've never had a detached, "go our separate ways and not talk to each other until next time" OTC relationship with my ATFs. When I started on SA and started doing arrangements -- well, arrangements were pretty much what I was doing with my ATFs already.
Also if she is doing bareback with you, then she is doing it with other guys. My guess is very few SB's are seeing just one guy. Just like you have a rotation, they have a stable of studs.
While on break, visit a few strip clubs and watch some porn.
There are a few "professionals" on the site. But I've found that they are easy to distinguish from the rest. All of the girls I have been on dates with are either college girls or young girls that have jobs that don't quite give them the lifestyle they want. And as I mentioned, several of them want to go exclusive with me. A Backpage girl isn't going to ask for that.
But it does seem that a lot of people on this site want to put others down for having any fun.
You are an experienced guy and not a dummy, you do you - anyone claiming their way is better is talking out of their ass or have an agenda - these girls are no hopeless victims being "led along", they're using their sexuality to get what they want; you're using your wallet to get what you want - sometimes it works out for both parties sometimes it doesn't .
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Are you listening @Papi?
Outside of the Backpage girls who've transplanted to SA, *all* of the girls are looking for an arrangement. Not some middle-age guy sleeping with eight girls in two months, and bragging about having them choke on his dick and having anal sex. And getting dumped on the next date. It would be amusing to have @Warrior post this on one of the sugaring sites and witness the girls ripping him a new asshole. LOL!
I'm not saying that @Warrior is committing a crime; but he's just one example of 10-thousand guys the girls complain about. What he's really looking for is a cheap hooker.
Did you get that @Papi? It's based on 4 years experience and reading real-life experiences of a multitude of girls.
Ishmael, I am avoiding the girls that say Plutonic and focusing on the girls that have "No Strings Attached" and "Friends with Benefits". I figure if they have FWB in their profile, they know the drill.
The 3-some was a first date though. The girl got a phone call from a friend right before she was supposed to come to my hotel. The friend just got dumped by her boyfriend, so rather than go comfort her, she got her to have a little revenge sex with me. That was fun. Both of these girls were 19. These are two of the girls that I have not seen more than once.
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Me, too, since the "Plutonic" crowd is generally illiterate. LOL, what a clown, @Warrior.
I would assume that may be the preference - but SDs willing and able to give SBs a couple of thousand per month regularly are not as easy to come by especially given the competition - some SBs may hold out for the arrangement theybl want, and some may be willing to do PPM "Mr Right" comes along - as Bavarian mentioned, no one is forcing them to do anything, there are SBs willing to fuck and get paid for it in lieu of an arrangement, and there are SBs that won't - it's up to each SD and SB how they wanna play the game - it doesn't necessarily have to be either/or - similar to dancers that are willing to do extras and dancers that don't - as far as I'm concerned there's room for both and it's better to have options in terns of aervice and SDs or SBs can choosebl to take it or leave it.
Every woman on SA is over 18, an adult, and in the end, responsible for her actions. But in many cases, we're talking about a 19-year-old girl, who has never been part of the sex industry, doesn't come from a background where she's ever dealt with manipulative people, is hurting for $, has a vision in her head that everyone on the site is looking for an arrangement (minus the obvious scammers), and is already intimidated by much older, successful men. It is not hard to manipulate or exploit them. For a PL who can get what he wants from hardened strippers, exploiting SA is candy from a baby.
The majority of actual girls are looking for an ongoing arrangement, even if the dynamics are more NSA or FWB. In general, but particularly if they are younger or newer, they think "we're all looking for an arrangement" is the context. They are adults, and it is their responsibility to properly vet the prospective "SDs" on the site as to whether it's really the case he is after an arrangement vs a one-nighter; unfortunately, many don't realize that, and some who do realize it are a bit intimidated. But when a guy comes in and exploits this belief, all you need to do is read an arrangement forum to know that the girls frequently discuss "pump and dump", and it can be pretty hurtful. But as Random says, some 20-year-old college girl probably is not super eager to get fucked in the ass by some guy a few decades older, who doesn't necessarily have any intention of starting an arrangement with her.
Anyway, the girls should be vetting their potential SDs better, and they ARE adults. But if I wanted to go pump&dump a bunch of them, it's not difficult to fool them into thinking I'm really after an arrangement -- I just think it's wrong and I don't do it, **if** you're being deceitful about it. If a guy is being up front that he has no interest in being an SD, and just playing the field, then that's great if he finds women that are down.
Anyway, that's where I am. Also, denial is a river in Egypt
And I don't necessarily subscribe to them being innocent victims being taken advantage of - many of these girls are cognizant about capitalizing on their sexuality vs being clueless victims - many have been fucking since 14 or 15 and came to the realization might as well get paid for it vs banging 18 y/o broke-guys for free - plenty of 18 and 19 y/o SBs/dancers manipulate middle-aged lonely PLS.
If you take money for sex, you are by definition a prostitute. Why would there be a superiority between Backpage, AMP, Stripper ITC, Stripper OTC, escort, or SA? SA girls want regulars and a consistent source of income. Well, so does everyone else. To me it is like arguing janitor vs custodian. Someone enlighten me.
AMP, stripper ITC, stripper OTC, and escorts are not under any assumption that they're about to enter an arrangement. There's no hierarchy or whores -- just different business models and expectations.
That doesn't release the women of their ultimate responsibility to protect themselves and vet their SDs. But it does mean he's taken advantage of the assumptions of a naive young woman, to pump & dump them -- an act that does leave them with bad feelings. None of the things the women did -- messaging him first, checking FWB on the interest list -- indicate an interest in being P&Ded, just that they want a particular type of arrangement.
It is not like they are on Match or POF looking for love and have been taken advantage of. They are on SA looking for men to pay them for sex.
Warrior paid for their time and saw some girls once and others multiple times. Like any customer, when you are no longer interested in the products, you discontinue purchasing it.
Don't get me wrong. I mean no disrespect to sex workers. I enjoy them frequently and always treat all women with respect. I just don't get the lease vs rent mentality.
Yes, most sugar babies who are serious about sugaring have more than one, unless they find a whale to pay all their bills + more.
When my mom found out I was stripping, she started telling me to always keep two sugar daddies in my back pocket.
Not Papi's ninja comment after.
It's also worth mentioning that, since FOSTA/SESTA, there's EVERY kind of woman on SA. There's young women who are not hardened escorts, but are not really SBs either; maybe Warrior has been up front that he's not at all interested in being an SD, but has been running into those types
Both have something to offer and both want something and both want what's best for them - either they come to an understanding or they don't; and many times one of the two sides is gonna feel they were taken advantage of.
For example at night clubs plenty of young women know how to get free entrance, food, and drinks using their sexuality.
Pics or didn’t happen.
:)
Of course they want to se Leonidas King of Sparta again and again...
:)
If SA was just honorable mongers that only do arrangements, most likely there won't be nearly as many to go around that are willing and able, and why there are SBs willing to do PPMs even though they rather have an arrangement - problem is there are probably not nearly enough ideal SDs and the SB has to decide whether to pass on PPM or follow thru and hope for the best - SBs have the same ability to walk away from sex as they do IRL or a dancer walking away from extras.
Just bc a provider accepts an offer doesn't mean it was the offer she was looking for; often times they gotta take the biz they can get - which probably applies to SBs as well since good SDs are not a-dime-a-dozen.
So when you negotiate P4P your top priority is that she's getting exactly what she was hoping for and you're totally honest and forthcoming including what you are able to spend vs what you want to spend?
Bottom line it's P4P and it's business, not courting for marriage - each side is responsible for taking part in this - this is like blaming dancers for inexperienced PLs that fall in-love with them - it's like asking dancers to tell PLs upfront "listen I'm not your GF nor will I be", in order to protect the naive PLs.
Exactly similar with this situation: naive 19-year-old should vet her potential SDs. Knowing that she's a naive 19-year-old who is naively assuming he's on an arrangement site because he's an SD, a man decades older should not deceive her into a P&D, especially knowing it's emotional taxing to her. Yes, she is responsible for her actions. That doesn't make it right to exploit her naivete,
If an 18 y/o is deemed capable of voluntarily joining the army and going to war, they should be deemed capable of handling a website they voluntarily signed up for - if they choose to accept $$$ for sex it's not bc they were tricked, it just didn't lead to what she ultimately may have wanted but ut ess her choice to tske the deak in the first place.
I’m especially surprised at Subra’s opinion. If I may ask Subra, is there a reason for your opinion? If other men are behaving badly, wouldn’t it make it easier for you to look good in comparison? (And thus confer greater benefits on you)
Hard to pick a side here as both have valid points, but I'm leaning towards Papi's side on this. But since Subra is the one with seemingly the most SA experience he probably understands the vibe on the site better. Still, I think there's probably an equal amount of women as there are men who don't mind a P&D. Since as mentioned, there are a ton of strippers and escorts on the site now. I've heard that in Vegas, SA is mostly pros.
- It's already the case that there's a zillion men behaving badly on SA. Yes, that makes it easy for me to look good in comparison, and as you know, I can use all the help I can get. But there's consequences to this: nice women driven off the site in disgust (and sometimes shame), and others hardening and becoming more jaded. None of that is good -- the place is already overrun by hustlers, scammers, and escorts, I want the actual SBs to stick around, so I get a shot at them.
- I do think there are some questions of personal ethics here. My ethical framework may be contradictory and illogical, but I have one :) In this case, I truly believe that pretending to be an SD in order to leverage that into a P&D with a naive young woman whose mistake is believing you're an SD, all knowing that there's some emotional implications to her, is just not something I'm interested in doing. Perhaps partly, this is due to the fact that I occasionally read some forums that have a mix of SDs and SBs, and I can see how getting P&Ded impacts the women.
I'm not the slightest bit irritated at anyone on this thread -- and definitely not Warrior, I'm glad he posted it and that led to this discussion. It's a little weird, there should be shit-slinging by now
-->"Excellent thread, back and forth debate from the two different sides with minimal mud slinging and I'm sure we know why."
I can tell you with 100% certainty, that if I hadn't been sugaring the past few years, I'd be absolutely with Papi and the other guys -- basically, bringing SC ethics and norms, and naively applying them to arrangements. As it is, I've internalized the sugaring norms, and apply those instead. No way I would have had this outlook 4 years ago.
-->"Still, I think there's probably an equal amount of women as there are men who don't mind a P&D. Since as mentioned, there are a ton of strippers and escorts on the site now."
100% true. Even a few years ago when I started -- you can read my original article -- it was full of strippers and escorts. Waaaay worse now. In fact, my entire view may be wrong based on mistakenly believing Warrior's claim that these girls were all legit SBs. There's plenty of young women on the site who aren't bothering to be looking for an arrangement, even if they don't come off as hardened escorts.
I think my experience might have been a little different as I am pretty young and not bad looking. I did run into quite a few girls who were fine with one off hookups, and I do think there is a whole demographic of SA girls who treat it like tinder but those girls aren't hooking up with the 50yos. I also met one girl who didn't want any money she just wanted to be taken on nice dates and potentially have someone to help out financially in an emergency like her car breaking down.
As far as girls motivations I think a lot of them get on the site out of curiosity just from hearing that rich guys will pay them to go on dates. When girls are new to the site they get flooded with incredibly crude messages from bottom feeders just looking for the ultra desperate girls. Because of that a lot of girls quit after the first few days. The girls that stick around are usually either in a desperate financial situation, looking for prince charming, looking for platonic, curious, or like the fantasy of being a sugar baby. A large percentage will never go through with any arrangement.
Regarding desperation... Yeah there is a lot of it on there. It can be a little gross. The last time I signed up I talked to this one girl who's story was pretty depressing. This girl and her friend worked at this pizza place together. Her friend (who was probably a 4) signed up first and hooked up with a few guys and then got her on it. This girl was crazy gorgeous (definite 9) a tall skinny 19yo blonde. Her first SD was a bottom feeder who paid her almost nothing and was super violent and with this girl being young and naive just put up with it. Her second SD was a scammer who promised her $4000 a month and made her sign this fake contract promising he would deposit money in her account. She fucked the scammer 4 or 5 times and then wised up...
Hearing that girls story made me sick to my stomach so I cancelled my SA. Then I was like I can't be a white knight in this game... Gotta be tough: WWPD (what would papi do)
In the end there is a lot that I love about SA and I think there are major differences in the structure of the relationship compared to anything else.
In the strip club I would say that I have genuine (non-romantic) love for some of my CFs/ATFs but in most cases that love and affection is a one way street. On SA there are TONS of SBs that develop genuine love for their SD.
-->"On SA there are TONS of SBs that develop genuine love for their SD."
This is one of the many things most guys here won't believe or internalize. The sugar forums are full of "oh shit I fell in love" stories -- most from SBs. One of many things that's different about arrangements.
"I want to be your good girl. I would like to be spanked."
OMG... Just think about that... What a beautiful situation... This 19yo has a fantasy to be a sub to an older man. And there is some 55yo out there who's fantasy is to be a dom to a 19yo... It's so perfect!?!?!@?! Two people who want each other but would never come across each other any other way.
🤮🤮🤮
vs
Sugaring Forum - "I love my SD, it makes me sick and frustrated that because he is married I can't see him more"
Funny thing about StripperWeb: they occasionally have Sugarbaby threads. Not surprisingly, the toxic attitude they bring towards stripping, they apply towards sugaring. Total zero-sum-game, hustle and fuck the guy out of whatever you can, type thing.
Meanwhile, on the sugaring forums, most Sugardaddy's are like, I'd never have a stripper as an SB, they are non-stop hustle.
Basically, kind of what we see in this thread -- the SW girls (and many strippers) apply SC norms and hustle to arrangements, and have gotten a terrible reputation because of it. But I can say from personal experience, if you can find a stripper who can make the transition, strippers can be amazing SBs. They're hotter than most, more fun and spontaneous than most, are NOT going to develop inappropriate feelings.
—>“In fact, my language exactly mirrors my language here: the PL is ultimately responsible for his own actions. But that doesn't stop me from condemning a dancer who knows a PL is in love with her, and uses that knowledge to wipe him out in a romance con. She's likely not a good person. And he's an idiot for not taking responsibility for himself.”
This is the part I admit that hit me a little bit. Some men will just hand out money out of his own free will.
In fast, with short term regulars I’ve had, it’s consistently been the second meetup has always been the most profitable. And then it burns out not too long after that. And either he wants nothing to do with me or vice versa.
If you ask them for their point of view, they might argue otherwise that I did some kind of “con” But I act romantic in the sense that I view that as basic customer service. Just like the girl at the fast food drive through who says “have a great day!”
So because of that, I guess I cut Warrior some slack too and place the blame on them.
If you don’t deliberately decieve and say nothing and accept what you get, were you really in the wrong?
20yo SB finds 40yo SD
The SB doesn't want a BF she doesn't have time for it or the drama associated
The SB wants to focus on school
The SB wants a stable occasional sexual partner and doesn't want to deal with randos from tinder
The SD literally provides for the SB financially so she can focus on school.
The SD is a vastly more experienced and unselfish lover than her previous BF.
The SD is rich and successful and acts as a mentor.
The SD is a safety net and when she has a financial crisis can step in to help.
If those two people hang out and talk for hours every week it isn't hard to believe that the SB will develop genuine affection and appreciation for the SD. And in some cases romantic love. Unlike a stripper the SB doesn't have 10 different guys she is juggling just one SD.
If they are genuinely attracted to a guy then his wealth is a very nice plus but not the main-reason - most of these women that chase men of means wouldn't give him the time of day if he was an avg joe - it's usually about his means, not about the guy that happens to have means - his means are the primary and overriding reason fir their "love".
"... That might also be why you (and the SW girls) can't believe anything but "one of you is going to feel screwed" applies to sugaring ..."
It's P4P - there are those that that act on the up and up, and those that run cons, no matter what the P4P venue - there are strippers that are cons and ripoffs, and there are SBs that are cons and ripoffs - likewise there are strippera that provide good service, and SBs that provide good service - i just don't believe SBs are sny more in-love with somebody that gives them $$$ than strippers are with good regulars that give them $$$.
Hard for me to phantom SBs are in it in part for the sex they get from a guy 2x their age - it's about the $$$/finances with rare exceptions - once the SB is ready to move on the sex and the SD are gonna be in lthe rear-view mirror (with the obligatory "with some rsre exceptions").
If you give SBs the following 2-choices
A) g÷t $5000/month w/o sex and just dates (dinner, movies,etc)
B) get $5000/month but sex is involved with the SD
What option do you think most if not almost all SBs would take?
That being said, theoretically if I let a girl in close that I really liked she could probably do some damage no doubt. I'm aware of that going in though and guess what, there hasn't been a whole lot of quality out there to even tempt me.
Just be honest with your SA GFs...
Imform them the stock market crashed, your fortune in bitcoin disappeared and you need to help the Prince of Wakanda (show them the email), you will be back in a few months ready to take good care of them, as long as they continue to provide BBBJ, BBFS, threesomes, and anal.
Win, win.
A) g÷t $5000/month w/o sex and just dates (dinner, movies,etc)
B) get $5000/month but sex is involved with the SD
What option do you think most if not almost all SBs would take?”
For me personally, if I took on a sugar daddy, I’d go for B. Get him off so he goes to sleep, and then I have some free time to myself to read or play phone games or shitpost on this site. 😁
A PL spends visits a stripper, an escort, and a sugar baby every week for 2 months. He gives each of them $200 every week. After one month he texts all three with the same message "Hey any chance you're free today? Want to meet up for lunch and just chat? I've had a rough week..."
Which one of the three types of sex workers is most likely to agree to meet for lunch?
Which one of the three types of sex workers is most likely to not expect compensation?
Being successful is attractive. Whether that is in a romantic relationship or even just in a friendship with another dude someone who is really successful in whatever field they are in is attractive and magnetic to be around.
To a 25yo SB a 40yo SD who is a tech startup CEO is probably pretty attractive. Where a 25yo stripper is not all that impressed with that same 40yo CEO. Strip clubs are one of the few places that being successful is pretty meaningless.
I haven't had a lot of success with SA, but it has been educational. Yesterday via messaging I learned about "ageplay" from a 19-year old girl. And now that I know something about ageplay, I know that I don't need to know anything else about ageplay.
I don't like to tell people that they're having fun wrong, but some of you make sexy time really complex...
age play
Age play is the term for consenting adults who roleplay in some way pertaining to age. Sometimes this is "infantilism", which is adults acting as babies. There are all ages.. this can also include schoolgirl or schoolboy with headmaster or headmistress, and every conceivable age in between. Consensuality is key, and let me stress again this is ADULTS - it has nothing whatsoever to do with anyone under the age of consenting adult.
ISHMAEL: "What's DL?"
HER: "Diaper lover."
ISHMAEL: "Nope nope nope nope nope nope nope nope nope nope nope nope nope nope nope nope nope nope nope nope nope nope nope nope nope nope nope nope nope nope nope nope nope nope nope nope nope nope nope nope nope nope nope nope nope nope nope nope nope nope nope nope nope nope nope nope nope nope nope nope nope nope nope nope nope nope nope nope nope nope nope nope nope... "
Chowder, I've pretty much transitioned every one of my ATFs to an SB. I didn't realize it at the time, it's just the dynamic I enjoyed OTC as we got to know each other. Then I got on SA and realized that, hey, it's pretty identical to a (PPM) arrangement. I haven't really had an ATF at the SC for a few years, just a series of CFs, so all my SBs since then, I've found on SA. But I do have a bead on a stripper that has potential.