Sugar Addiction Update

"They want a long term arrangement."
____________________

Duh.

That's why it's called "Seeking Arrangement" and not "Backpage." I think there's more overlap in attitude b/w ITC and going online. Just far more choices and you eliminate the "friction" of a brick-and-mortar establishment.

I have this 21-yr-old blonde instagram model I've been seeing for a year come August. She stood me up at the meet&greet.

OTC

Final comment @Warrior: I'm sure every young girl dreams of having anal sex with some middle-aged guy and getting dumped before the 3rd date. We should should send you post into SA marketing.

How do we know they are true SBs and not hoes that used to advertise on Backpage?

Seems like they are pretty quick to get in the sack.

They love you warrior great job! (or you got a big dick)

-->"How do we know they are true SBs and not hoes that used to advertise on Backpage?"

There's lots of escorts on SA. The answer is, if you follow Warrior's process (or what I'm guessing his process is), you don't know. Although I don't think someone who is using SA that way should care -- Warrior (like a number of others) is basically using SA as a backpage replacement for quick scores. And arguably, for the ones who are "true SBs", taking advantage of the fact that they're hoping he's a "True SD".

If what you want is an arrangement, rather than backpage replacement, then you'd follow a different process than what Warrior is likely doing.

-->"When you go on an OTC date with a stripper, there is a certain detachment that stripper has. Sure she acts like your girlfriend when she is with you. But after the deed, the professional stripper completely forgets about you once you part ways. Sugar babes are wired differently. They all seem to want to develop a relationship. They want a long term arrangement."

Yeah, that's exactly why I came to the conclusion that I've really been treating my ATFs as SBs all along. I tend to do my OTCs with a single ATF, and basically it always ends up more arrangement-y -- I've never had a detached, "go our separate ways and not talk to each other until next time" OTC relationship with my ATFs. When I started on SA and started doing arrangements -- well, arrangements were pretty much what I was doing with my ATFs already.

If these girls are looking for a boyfriend, I would be hesitant to be barebacking them. There are alot of women who would love to get pregnant, thinking they could trap the man into some sort of relationship or at least get a handsome amount of child support out of it.

Also if she is doing bareback with you, then she is doing it with other guys. My guess is very few SB's are seeing just one guy. Just like you have a rotation, they have a stable of studs.

Sounds like you might want to take a break for a few weeks.

While on break, visit a few strip clubs and watch some porn.

I had no luck with SA. I should try again but not make the same two mistakes: Telling my real age and showing my real photos.

I've always thought you would do very well, @Jack, and it has nothing to do with your photos or age. Tell them a few jokes and take them on one of your overseas trips.

Cristobal, I think you are the only person that got my Post. I actually am thinking about taking a break from it.

There are a few "professionals" on the site. But I've found that they are easy to distinguish from the rest. All of the girls I have been on dates with are either college girls or young girls that have jobs that don't quite give them the lifestyle they want. And as I mentioned, several of them want to go exclusive with me. A Backpage girl isn't going to ask for that.

But it does seem that a lot of people on this site want to put others down for having any fun.

@Warrior

You are an experienced guy and not a dummy, you do you - anyone claiming their way is better is talking out of their ass or have an agenda - these girls are no hopeless victims being "led along", they're using their sexuality to get what they want; you're using your wallet to get what you want - sometimes it works out for both parties sometimes it doesn't .

Warrior... Are you specifically contacting women who *don't* have things like "long term", "emotional connection", "romance", etc., in their profiles, or do not not care about the profile content that much?

"anyone claiming their way is better is talking out of their ass or have an agenda "
________________
Are you listening @Papi?

Outside of the Backpage girls who've transplanted to SA, *all* of the girls are looking for an arrangement. Not some middle-age guy sleeping with eight girls in two months, and bragging about having them choke on his dick and having anal sex. And getting dumped on the next date. It would be amusing to have @Warrior post this on one of the sugaring sites and witness the girls ripping him a new asshole. LOL!

I'm not saying that @Warrior is committing a crime; but he's just one example of 10-thousand guys the girls complain about. What he's really looking for is a cheap hooker.

Did you get that @Papi? It's based on 4 years experience and reading real-life experiences of a multitude of girls.

I'd argue with Ran-Dumb-Member, but he's not worth the effort.

Ishmael, I am avoiding the girls that say Plutonic and focusing on the girls that have "No Strings Attached" and "Friends with Benefits". I figure if they have FWB in their profile, they know the drill.

To be fair, no one is forcing them to give it up on the first date with no commitment of arrangement. I just find it odd that so called SBs are having anal and unprotected sex on the first date.

The anal and the unprotected was not on the first date. I've gone out with several of them multiple times.

The 3-some was a first date though. The girl got a phone call from a friend right before she was supposed to come to my hotel. The friend just got dumped by her boyfriend, so rather than go comfort her, she got her to have a little revenge sex with me. That was fun. Both of these girls were 19. These are two of the girls that I have not seen more than once.

"I am avoiding the girls that say Plutonic"
____________
Me, too, since the "Plutonic" crowd is generally illiterate. LOL, what a clown, @Warrior.

Excuse me Asshole . Platonic. I guess you have never done a typo ?

"... *all* of the girls are looking for an arrangement ..."

I would assume that may be the preference - but SDs willing and able to give SBs a couple of thousand per month regularly are not as easy to come by especially given the competition - some SBs may hold out for the arrangement theybl want, and some may be willing to do PPM "Mr Right" comes along - as Bavarian mentioned, no one is forcing them to do anything, there are SBs willing to fuck and get paid for it in lieu of an arrangement, and there are SBs that won't - it's up to each SD and SB how they wanna play the game - it doesn't necessarily have to be either/or - similar to dancers that are willing to do extras and dancers that don't - as far as I'm concerned there's room for both and it's better to have options in terns of aervice and SDs or SBs can choosebl to take it or leave it.

^^ Yes you made a bunch of valid points. However I'm telling you the reality that the vast majority of these girls are not looking for pump-and-dump sex.

^ adding to the above I’d bet there are women that have sugar daddies that give them a generous allowance, but I’d also bet they’re not on seeking or any other internet sites, they’re more likely hanging out at marina bars or country clubs, and golf venues. my limited experience with SA led me to conclude that it’s much easier to pull strippers and very hot ones than it is to pull these young naive idiot girls that I met on the site.

To give my view of the ethics, as shakey and hypocritical as they are :)

Every woman on SA is over 18, an adult, and in the end, responsible for her actions. But in many cases, we're talking about a 19-year-old girl, who has never been part of the sex industry, doesn't come from a background where she's ever dealt with manipulative people, is hurting for $, has a vision in her head that everyone on the site is looking for an arrangement (minus the obvious scammers), and is already intimidated by much older, successful men. It is not hard to manipulate or exploit them. For a PL who can get what he wants from hardened strippers, exploiting SA is candy from a baby.

The majority of actual girls are looking for an ongoing arrangement, even if the dynamics are more NSA or FWB. In general, but particularly if they are younger or newer, they think "we're all looking for an arrangement" is the context. They are adults, and it is their responsibility to properly vet the prospective "SDs" on the site as to whether it's really the case he is after an arrangement vs a one-nighter; unfortunately, many don't realize that, and some who do realize it are a bit intimidated. But when a guy comes in and exploits this belief, all you need to do is read an arrangement forum to know that the girls frequently discuss "pump and dump", and it can be pretty hurtful. But as Random says, some 20-year-old college girl probably is not super eager to get fucked in the ass by some guy a few decades older, who doesn't necessarily have any intention of starting an arrangement with her.

Anyway, the girls should be vetting their potential SDs better, and they ARE adults. But if I wanted to go pump&dump a bunch of them, it's not difficult to fool them into thinking I'm really after an arrangement -- I just think it's wrong and I don't do it, **if** you're being deceitful about it. If a guy is being up front that he has no interest in being an SD, and just playing the field, then that's great if he finds women that are down.

Anyway, that's where I am. Also, denial is a river in Egypt

^ that was my entire point, dealing with girls so young is ridiculous, what kind of an arrangement could you or anyone 50+have with a naive 19-22 year old girl, really after she fucks you into a coma, what could you possibly talk about, and mentoring young people is definitely a good thing having sex with a person you are mentoring is exploitation pure and simple and is unconscionable to me.

I don't personally think there's any ethical superiority in seeing escorts vs stripper OTC vs an arrangement. Just different ways to have sex with young women, all of whom are expecting to interact in completely different ways. "Mentoring" isn't the main point of arrangements, it's a little side benefit if it happens at all

^ Most times if there’s an age difference That dramatic, what I described is what is happening, not saying that’s absolute but I generally don’t hang around with woman under 30 and most are a bit older than that. I find myself bored with those younger girls, especially the ones that are still in school and trying to find their way in the world.

I'm blessed, or cursed, with still enjoying my time with younger strippers and SBs. I prefer the maturity of the 23-30 set, but have no trouble having a fun time with a 21-year-old.

FYI. The 19 year old Favorited and messaged me. I can't believe that TUSCL has so many Puritans.

^ what I’m saying applies only to me, you have fun whatever way suits you best. I’m not a Puritan

These young ladies know what they want and what they are doing, they did not accidentally sign up on the website, upload a profile, answer messages, arrange meets, show up for dates, converse, drink, eat with the PL, go to his hotel/house, take off her clothes, and have sex.

I really don't think there's any more chivalry or ethics in having sex with them as an arrangement vs PPM - SBs, like dancers, know, should know, loyalty should not be expected on either side.

And I don't necessarily subscribe to them being innocent victims being taken advantage of - many of these girls are cognizant about capitalizing on their sexuality vs being clueless victims - many have been fucking since 14 or 15 and came to the realization might as well get paid for it vs banging 18 y/o broke-guys for free - plenty of 18 and 19 y/o SBs/dancers manipulate middle-aged lonely PLS.

I see nothing wrong with Warrior15's actions. Could one of the members that do, please explain to me the hierarchy of whores?

If you take money for sex, you are by definition a prostitute. Why would there be a superiority between Backpage, AMP, Stripper ITC, Stripper OTC, escort, or SA? SA girls want regulars and a consistent source of income. Well, so does everyone else. To me it is like arguing janitor vs custodian. Someone enlighten me.

Justin: in short, SA girls who are actually trying to be SBs are looking for an arrangement, not a single transaction, and unless it's discussed otherwise, the more naive girls assume that male profiles on the site are doing the same thing. Perhaps another way to say this: If Warrior stated up front that he's not at all interested in being an SD or in an arrangement, it's likely some or all of the girls would have passed.

AMP, stripper ITC, stripper OTC, and escorts are not under any assumption that they're about to enter an arrangement. There's no hierarchy or whores -- just different business models and expectations.

That doesn't release the women of their ultimate responsibility to protect themselves and vet their SDs. But it does mean he's taken advantage of the assumptions of a naive young woman, to pump & dump them -- an act that does leave them with bad feelings. None of the things the women did -- messaging him first, checking FWB on the interest list -- indicate an interest in being P&Ded, just that they want a particular type of arrangement.

Pretty much no one is squeaky-clean in the P4P game - whether it's the provider or the buyer, everyone is gonna put themselves in tue best position to get what they want.

All of my initial meetings were negotiated before the girls arrived. In fact, in almost every case, the girls set the price.

An interesting discussion. I signed up on that site a couple of months ago and found that what most of them want isn’t what I want at the moment. I want sex without having to be a boyfriend. Escorts used to be my sex partner of choice but since my eyes were opened to the possibility in strip clubs I’ve left them mostly behind. Strippers give me variety without long term obligations. I like that.

Subraman, I appreciate your response and I kind of get where you are coming from, but to my mind, these naive young woman are deluding themselves if they don't realize they are participating in just another form of prostitution.

It is not like they are on Match or POF looking for love and have been taken advantage of. They are on SA looking for men to pay them for sex.

Warrior paid for their time and saw some girls once and others multiple times. Like any customer, when you are no longer interested in the products, you discontinue purchasing it.

Don't get me wrong. I mean no disrespect to sex workers. I enjoy them frequently and always treat all women with respect. I just don't get the lease vs rent mentality.

"My guess is very few SB's are seeing just one guy. Just like you have a rotation, they have a stable of studs."

Yes, most sugar babies who are serious about sugaring have more than one, unless they find a whale to pay all their bills + more.

When my mom found out I was stripping, she started telling me to always keep two sugar daddies in my back pocket.

Many of these girls mislead guys with inaccurate pics and/or demanding $$$ upfront for a first date with no intention of following thru - if anything it seems the providers are often the ones fucking over dudes - these girls know what it means to give it up and that there are no guarantees if they do, they are not that stupid nor naive except in rare cases - they may just be pissed they are not getting exactly what they want but this is not that much different than dancers that are constantly complianing about custies not spending enough, wanting extras, wanting to date them, etc.

Well... there's a wisdom to having multiple streams of income, regardless of your profession or industry.

The above is in reaction to Nina's post.

Not Papi's ninja comment after.

Justin: totally agree that sugaring is part of the sex industry. The women involved should realize that's what they're doing; I think many do, but some don't... but that's really another interesting side topic. Whether or not she thinks she's in the sex industry, if she's an SB, she IS looking for an SD and an arrangement -- not a pump and dump. The smart and experienced ones specifically vet their potential SDs to ensure this is the case, before meeting them. The naive ones still are on the assumption that they're meeting a guy who is not just fucking his way through SA, but a guy who actually is an SD and intends to start an arrangement if things go well. The naive ones SHOULD be vetting the men better, but don't always, so they get P&D'ed and traumatized a few times, then learn from it or quit the site. It's the "quit the site" part that sucks for guys who are actually interested in being SDs.

It's also worth mentioning that, since FOSTA/SESTA, there's EVERY kind of woman on SA. There's young women who are not hardened escorts, but are not really SBs either; maybe Warrior has been up front that he's not at all interested in being an SD, but has been running into those types

In the P4P game the man and the woman want different things and often times one of the 2 gets screwed over.

Both have something to offer and both want something and both want what's best for them - either they come to an understanding or they don't; and many times one of the two sides is gonna feel they were taken advantage of.

Paps, maybe I'm completely deluded, but I think at least as my ATFs have gone, it's been win-win. I'm not looking to take advantage of anyone -- although I do want a good deal for myself, obviously. This might be the crux of the difference in outlook

Even civvies & newbies know how to manipulate men to get what they want.

For example at night clubs plenty of young women know how to get free entrance, food, and drinks using their sexuality.

@Warrior15

Pics or didn’t happen.

:)

Of course they want to se Leonidas King of Sparta again and again...

:)

These naive SBs are similar to naive strippers that think they just have to dance on stage and flirt with guys and the custies are gonna hand them $100s - when they realize they gotta provide contact (in contact clubs), or more, to make $$$, they either accept it for what it is and take the plunge or decide it's not for them and they walk away.

If SA was just honorable mongers that only do arrangements, most likely there won't be nearly as many to go around that are willing and able, and why there are SBs willing to do PPMs even though they rather have an arrangement - problem is there are probably not nearly enough ideal SDs and the SB has to decide whether to pass on PPM or follow thru and hope for the best - SBs have the same ability to walk away from sex as they do IRL or a dancer walking away from extras.

PPM = arrangement, the two are not different. Allowance vs PPM is just how the SD and SB choose to structure the $ portion. All SDs start with PPM (unless they're dumb); some transition to allowance eventually, but plenty of arrangements stay with PPM. The SDs have too much power here for the SBs to force a change, so they (the SBs) are always vulnerable to P&Ds, they just have to vet and hope that SD is being honest that he intends to pursue an arrangement, or there's some other ways SBs try to avoid P&Ds when possible

"... I think at least as my ATFs have gone, it's been win-win ..."

Just bc a provider accepts an offer doesn't mean it was the offer she was looking for; often times they gotta take the biz they can get - which probably applies to SBs as well since good SDs are not a-dime-a-dozen.

I think PPM is just as close to P&D as to an arrangement - it gives the SD the flexibility to only see/pay her when he wants whether it's 1,2, 5 times - the PPM & P&D guy want the same thing, if they like her they keep on sheing her, if they don't they stop.

^ this!

Well yeah, it's nice for us SDs, and also nice for guys who are not interested in being SDs but want to take advantage of the system. The question is: she is going in thinking he's in good faith an SD looking for an arrangement. If he has absolutely no intention of being an SD or pursuing an arrangement, and is taking advantage of her naive belief, to P&D her even though the girls feel bad about it ... well, if you guys think this is cool, that's fine. I don't, and so I don't engage in it. I'm not looking to deceive and traumatize an SB. If I'm looking for a transactional one-time thing, I look elsewhere

I don’t even see the point of transactional one-time thing. Might as well get a Fleshlight.

There's something to be said for variety - for many guys just sticking to one girl feels like having a wife or a GF - for many guys why have sex with the same girl for 6 months vs 6 different girls.

@Subra

So when you negotiate P4P your top priority is that she's getting exactly what she was hoping for and you're totally honest and forthcoming including what you are able to spend vs what you want to spend?

Bottom line it's P4P and it's business, not courting for marriage - each side is responsible for taking part in this - this is like blaming dancers for inexperienced PLs that fall in-love with them - it's like asking dancers to tell PLs upfront "listen I'm not your GF nor will I be", in order to protect the naive PLs.

Papi: I don't blame dancers for inexperienced PLs that fall in love with them. In fact, my language exactly mirrors my language here: the PL is ultimately responsible for his own actions. But that doesn't stop me from condemning a dancer who knows a PL is in love with her, and uses that knowledge to wipe him out in a romance con. She's likely not a good person. And he's an idiot for not taking responsibility for himself.

Exactly similar with this situation: naive 19-year-old should vet her potential SDs. Knowing that she's a naive 19-year-old who is naively assuming he's on an arrangement site because he's an SD, a man decades older should not deceive her into a P&D, especially knowing it's emotional taxing to her. Yes, she is responsible for her actions. That doesn't make it right to exploit her naivete,

P4P is not a natural wholesome interaction - making the other party hear what they wanna hear is inherent in the process - there really aren't any innocent victims nor clean hands - most dancers are not into bankrupting custies via romance hustles n9r are most on SA looking to trick or force SBs into doing something they don't wanna do - a SB disappointed that it didn't tuen out the way she wsnted is analogous to a PL being disappointed that tge dancer wss nit into him like he wanted it to be.

If an 18 y/o is deemed capable of voluntarily joining the army and going to war, they should be deemed capable of handling a website they voluntarily signed up for - if they choose to accept $$$ for sex it's not bc they were tricked, it just didn't lead to what she ultimately may have wanted but ut ess her choice to tske the deak in the first place.

Not being 100% honest/upfront is inherent in P4P on boh sides - I don't think anyone is 100% forthcoming.

Paps, like I said -- it boils down to whether you think deceiving a 19 year old (or however old) or taking advantage of her naivete into a P&D that you know is somewhat traumatizing to her, is something you think is ok or not. I definitely don't (and that's about as nice as I can put it). I get it that many of you think it's fabulous. And this isn't about "SB disappointed it didn't turn out the way she wanted" -- her mistake is not properly vetting, she engaged with someone who never had any intention of following through.

This is a very interesting discussion to read. I don’t really have sugaring experience, but I think the near unanimous agreement at least from dancers/tumblr is that SA is crap and you either freestyle or meet a customer ITC. (It always cracks me up when I hear dancers rant against extras but freely talk about their sugar daddy, LOL)

I’m especially surprised at Subra’s opinion. If I may ask Subra, is there a reason for your opinion? If other men are behaving badly, wouldn’t it make it easier for you to look good in comparison? (And thus confer greater benefits on you)

Excellent thread, back and forth debate from the two different sides with minimal mud slinging and I'm sure we know why.

Hard to pick a side here as both have valid points, but I'm leaning towards Papi's side on this. But since Subra is the one with seemingly the most SA experience he probably understands the vibe on the site better. Still, I think there's probably an equal amount of women as there are men who don't mind a P&D. Since as mentioned, there are a ton of strippers and escorts on the site now. I've heard that in Vegas, SA is mostly pros.

nice:

- It's already the case that there's a zillion men behaving badly on SA. Yes, that makes it easy for me to look good in comparison, and as you know, I can use all the help I can get. But there's consequences to this: nice women driven off the site in disgust (and sometimes shame), and others hardening and becoming more jaded. None of that is good -- the place is already overrun by hustlers, scammers, and escorts, I want the actual SBs to stick around, so I get a shot at them.

- I do think there are some questions of personal ethics here. My ethical framework may be contradictory and illogical, but I have one :) In this case, I truly believe that pretending to be an SD in order to leverage that into a P&D with a naive young woman whose mistake is believing you're an SD, all knowing that there's some emotional implications to her, is just not something I'm interested in doing. Perhaps partly, this is due to the fact that I occasionally read some forums that have a mix of SDs and SBs, and I can see how getting P&Ded impacts the women.

-->"Excellent thread, back and forth debate from the two different sides with minimal mud slinging and I'm sure we know why."

I'm not the slightest bit irritated at anyone on this thread -- and definitely not Warrior, I'm glad he posted it and that led to this discussion. It's a little weird, there should be shit-slinging by now

-->"Excellent thread, back and forth debate from the two different sides with minimal mud slinging and I'm sure we know why."

I can tell you with 100% certainty, that if I hadn't been sugaring the past few years, I'd be absolutely with Papi and the other guys -- basically, bringing SC ethics and norms, and naively applying them to arrangements. As it is, I've internalized the sugaring norms, and apply those instead. No way I would have had this outlook 4 years ago.

-->"Still, I think there's probably an equal amount of women as there are men who don't mind a P&D. Since as mentioned, there are a ton of strippers and escorts on the site now."

100% true. Even a few years ago when I started -- you can read my original article -- it was full of strippers and escorts. Waaaay worse now. In fact, my entire view may be wrong based on mistakenly believing Warrior's claim that these girls were all legit SBs. There's plenty of young women on the site who aren't bothering to be looking for an arrangement, even if they don't come off as hardened escorts.

"I want the actual SBs to stick around, so I get a shot at them." I would assume from your posts that you are not trying new women with any regularity. That begs the question, how long do you have to stay in the arrangement to feel you have satisfied your moral obligation to these "naive young women"? Not being sarcastic, genuinely curious.

This is my take on SA after signing up (and eventually chickening out) a few times and even making an account as a girl. SA it not easily definable as any one thing. Yes the majority of girls on there are looking for some form of P4P usually long term but some are just genuinely attracted to older powerful men and looking for a rich BF, some are wannabe cam girls looking to sell pics, and some just want to be taken on trips.

I think my experience might have been a little different as I am pretty young and not bad looking. I did run into quite a few girls who were fine with one off hookups, and I do think there is a whole demographic of SA girls who treat it like tinder but those girls aren't hooking up with the 50yos. I also met one girl who didn't want any money she just wanted to be taken on nice dates and potentially have someone to help out financially in an emergency like her car breaking down.

As far as girls motivations I think a lot of them get on the site out of curiosity just from hearing that rich guys will pay them to go on dates. When girls are new to the site they get flooded with incredibly crude messages from bottom feeders just looking for the ultra desperate girls. Because of that a lot of girls quit after the first few days. The girls that stick around are usually either in a desperate financial situation, looking for prince charming, looking for platonic, curious, or like the fantasy of being a sugar baby. A large percentage will never go through with any arrangement.

Regarding desperation... Yeah there is a lot of it on there. It can be a little gross. The last time I signed up I talked to this one girl who's story was pretty depressing. This girl and her friend worked at this pizza place together. Her friend (who was probably a 4) signed up first and hooked up with a few guys and then got her on it. This girl was crazy gorgeous (definite 9) a tall skinny 19yo blonde. Her first SD was a bottom feeder who paid her almost nothing and was super violent and with this girl being young and naive just put up with it. Her second SD was a scammer who promised her $4000 a month and made her sign this fake contract promising he would deposit money in her account. She fucked the scammer 4 or 5 times and then wised up...

Hearing that girls story made me sick to my stomach so I cancelled my SA. Then I was like I can't be a white knight in this game... Gotta be tough: WWPD (what would papi do)

In the end there is a lot that I love about SA and I think there are major differences in the structure of the relationship compared to anything else.

In the strip club I would say that I have genuine (non-romantic) love for some of my CFs/ATFs but in most cases that love and affection is a one way street. On SA there are TONS of SBs that develop genuine love for their SD.

At its core, it comes down to protecting one's turf - the fly-by guys believe they should be able to partake if the SB agrees - the guys that want an arrangement type feel the fly-bys are messing it up for them and shouldn't do it - analogous to the non-extras dancers that don't want extras in their clubs bc it cuts into their biz - basically "hey that's not my thing and it affects what I wanna do therefore it's wrong"

Justin: my obligation, as it were, is to go into things with a honest eye towards building an arrangement. I follow the arrangement norms: first date is a platonic meet-and-greet to gauge our chemistry and attraction before we further. I realize this part already sounds insane from an SC perspective, but it's the norm in sugar. If I'm not pretty wildly attracted, I'm done. Otherwise, I start seeing her for however long it works for us both. Maybe she goes back to college in August; maybe I realize the sex isn't so good. Maybe we can only see each other twice a month and I can fit in another SB.

-->"On SA there are TONS of SBs that develop genuine love for their SD."

This is one of the many things most guys here won't believe or internalize. The sugar forums are full of "oh shit I fell in love" stories -- most from SBs. One of many things that's different about arrangements.

I once saw this girls profile on SA that was amazing. It was a 19yo who was looking for someone 50-55 she even hinted in the profile text she was curious about being with an older man. The profile text was totally normal but then the last line said:

"I want to be your good girl. I would like to be spanked."

OMG... Just think about that... What a beautiful situation... This 19yo has a fantasy to be a sub to an older man. And there is some 55yo out there who's fantasy is to be a dom to a 19yo... It's so perfect!?!?!@?! Two people who want each other but would never come across each other any other way.

—>”The sugar forums are full of "oh shit I fell in love" stories -- most from SBs. One of many things that's different about arrangements.”

🤮🤮🤮

50% of Stripperweb - "I hate my regular customers, they make me sick and I want to vomit"

vs

Sugaring Forum - "I love my SD, it makes me sick and frustrated that because he is married I can't see him more"

Paul: exactly!

Funny thing about StripperWeb: they occasionally have Sugarbaby threads. Not surprisingly, the toxic attitude they bring towards stripping, they apply towards sugaring. Total zero-sum-game, hustle and fuck the guy out of whatever you can, type thing.

Meanwhile, on the sugaring forums, most Sugardaddy's are like, I'd never have a stripper as an SB, they are non-stop hustle.

Basically, kind of what we see in this thread -- the SW girls (and many strippers) apply SC norms and hustle to arrangements, and have gotten a terrible reputation because of it. But I can say from personal experience, if you can find a stripper who can make the transition, strippers can be amazing SBs. They're hotter than most, more fun and spontaneous than most, are NOT going to develop inappropriate feelings.

This is a good discussion though.

—>“In fact, my language exactly mirrors my language here: the PL is ultimately responsible for his own actions. But that doesn't stop me from condemning a dancer who knows a PL is in love with her, and uses that knowledge to wipe him out in a romance con. She's likely not a good person. And he's an idiot for not taking responsibility for himself.”

This is the part I admit that hit me a little bit. Some men will just hand out money out of his own free will.

In fast, with short term regulars I’ve had, it’s consistently been the second meetup has always been the most profitable. And then it burns out not too long after that. And either he wants nothing to do with me or vice versa.

If you ask them for their point of view, they might argue otherwise that I did some kind of “con” But I act romantic in the sense that I view that as basic customer service. Just like the girl at the fast food drive through who says “have a great day!”

So because of that, I guess I cut Warrior some slack too and place the blame on them.

If you don’t deliberately decieve and say nothing and accept what you get, were you really in the wrong?

^ Doesn't sound like anyone is in the wrong, generally sounds like different experiences, end up with different outcomes.

So these hot young SBs can't manage to find love but on a site with guys twice their age giving them thousands of dollars to date them - that doesn't make sense - if they are in-love at all is in that they are getting the lifestyle they wanted, i.e. they are in-love with his mean$/wallet and the lifestyle it gives them w/o having ro work a real-job - let him lose his means and let's see how in-love they stay - taking at face-value what these girls may post online IMO has as much credibility as SJG's organization

Paps, I do agree that the sense of support and stability that she gets, through his wealth, is definitely part of it. But that's a very common part of regular romantic love also -- women are attracted to wealthy men in general. These are advice forums, the SBs have nothing to gain (no status gained) by admitting this. Whether it's "in love" or just expressions of affection and appreciation, this is the norm in sugaring. It might be impossible to believe for someone who has only built his worldview around SCs, but it's nevertheless true. That might also be why you (and the SW girls) can't believe anything but "one of you is going to feel screwed" applies to sugaring -- it doesn't. But SCs are the right place for people who believe that's the way it has to be, they'll have a harder time in arrangements.

Papi - When I talk about love in respect to sugaring I am not always talking about romantic love. So instead of using the word love let's say there is more genuine deep affection and appreciation. These aren't grizzled ungrateful strippers or escorts who think in terms of "how can I get as much money as possible". A lot of them are just normal nice girls.

20yo SB finds 40yo SD

The SB doesn't want a BF she doesn't have time for it or the drama associated
The SB wants to focus on school
The SB wants a stable occasional sexual partner and doesn't want to deal with randos from tinder

The SD literally provides for the SB financially so she can focus on school.
The SD is a vastly more experienced and unselfish lover than her previous BF.
The SD is rich and successful and acts as a mentor.
The SD is a safety net and when she has a financial crisis can step in to help.

If those two people hang out and talk for hours every week it isn't hard to believe that the SB will develop genuine affection and appreciation for the SD. And in some cases romantic love. Unlike a stripper the SB doesn't have 10 different guys she is juggling just one SD.

"... women are attracted to wealthy men in general ..."

If they are genuinely attracted to a guy then his wealth is a very nice plus but not the main-reason - most of these women that chase men of means wouldn't give him the time of day if he was an avg joe - it's usually about his means, not about the guy that happens to have means - his means are the primary and overriding reason fir their "love".

"... That might also be why you (and the SW girls) can't believe anything but "one of you is going to feel screwed" applies to sugaring ..."

It's P4P - there are those that that act on the up and up, and those that run cons, no matter what the P4P venue - there are strippers that are cons and ripoffs, and there are SBs that are cons and ripoffs - likewise there are strippera that provide good service, and SBs that provide good service - i just don't believe SBs are sny more in-love with somebody that gives them $$$ than strippers are with good regulars that give them $$$.

@PD

Hard for me to phantom SBs are in it in part for the sex they get from a guy 2x their age - it's about the $$$/finances with rare exceptions - once the SB is ready to move on the sex and the SD are gonna be in lthe rear-view mirror (with the obligatory "with some rsre exceptions").

If you give SBs the following 2-choices

A) g÷t $5000/month w/o sex and just dates (dinner, movies,etc)

B) get $5000/month but sex is involved with the SD

What option do you think most if not almost all SBs would take?

I do both and have had a good time with both. Hey if I might a cool girl in either when I'm supposed to have my "game face" on fuck it I would be open to it. It's hard find quality, especially in those two places in a business environment. But I could see my self developing a relationship with a SB if we really hit off, I'm not gonna lie. Despite my job or where I grew up I'm more of free and easy kind of guy I can't be this stoned faced killer all business dude 24/7.

That being said, theoretically if I let a girl in close that I really liked she could probably do some damage no doubt. I'm aware of that going in though and guess what, there hasn't been a whole lot of quality out there to even tempt me.

@warrior15

Just be honest with your SA GFs...

Imform them the stock market crashed, your fortune in bitcoin disappeared and you need to help the Prince of Wakanda (show them the email), you will be back in a few months ready to take good care of them, as long as they continue to provide BBBJ, BBFS, threesomes, and anal.

Win, win.

@Papi I think you're missing something, a guy that has done well enough to have the means to provide a woman the means to a good life might be a bit different to her than most just by virtue of the ability he has to earn such amounts, so if you take love out of the equation, and give him some credit for being capable of being in that fortunate position, there might be some way to realistically understand how some women might feel attracted to a hard charging alpha personality, you might arrive at a different conclusion and under those conditions she might be in love with a man that gave her an amazing life.

Papi said —>”If you give SBs the following 2-choices

A) g÷t $5000/month w/o sex and just dates (dinner, movies,etc)

B) get $5000/month but sex is involved with the SD

What option do you think most if not almost all SBs would take?”

For me personally, if I took on a sugar daddy, I’d go for B. Get him off so he goes to sleep, and then I have some free time to myself to read or play phone games or shitpost on this site. 😁

😄

Nicespice with ruthless Asian efficiency

Papi- I see where you're coming from but I'm not sure your multiple choice quiz is an apt analogy. A better one would be:

A PL spends visits a stripper, an escort, and a sugar baby every week for 2 months. He gives each of them $200 every week. After one month he texts all three with the same message "Hey any chance you're free today? Want to meet up for lunch and just chat? I've had a rough week..."

Which one of the three types of sex workers is most likely to agree to meet for lunch?

Which one of the three types of sex workers is most likely to not expect compensation?

To expound on twentyfives point in a different way.

Being successful is attractive. Whether that is in a romantic relationship or even just in a friendship with another dude someone who is really successful in whatever field they are in is attractive and magnetic to be around.

To a 25yo SB a 40yo SD who is a tech startup CEO is probably pretty attractive. Where a 25yo stripper is not all that impressed with that same 40yo CEO. Strip clubs are one of the few places that being successful is pretty meaningless.

I have had better luck transitioning a CF to a SB. We still see each other ITC but OTC even more, often times just dates or hanging out. It has been a good ride honestly. If I didn't have genuine affection for her I wouldn't keep this up. I would say this is a rare thing because I can't see me doing this with anyone else. I never met a CF who I would want to. So my experience may be somewhat rare but it happened non the less.

No relationship based on money can be "true love", although it is theoretically possible. True love is selfless.

Huh... so this is what a civil, enlightening conversation looks like on TUSCL. I don't know about the rest of you, but I took a screen capture.

I haven't had a lot of success with SA, but it has been educational. Yesterday via messaging I learned about "ageplay" from a 19-year old girl. And now that I know something about ageplay, I know that I don't need to know anything else about ageplay.

I don't like to tell people that they're having fun wrong, but some of you make sexy time really complex...

Google it... but not at work.

From Urban Dictionary:

age play
Age play is the term for consenting adults who roleplay in some way pertaining to age. Sometimes this is "infantilism", which is adults acting as babies. There are all ages.. this can also include schoolgirl or schoolboy with headmaster or headmistress, and every conceivable age in between. Consensuality is key, and let me stress again this is ADULTS - it has nothing whatsoever to do with anyone under the age of consenting adult.

Yep. I don't think it's necessarily wrong, but it's just not my bag.

HER: "And then there's DL."

ISHMAEL: "What's DL?"

HER: "Diaper lover."

ISHMAEL: "Nope nope nope nope nope nope nope nope nope nope nope nope nope nope nope nope nope nope nope nope nope nope nope nope nope nope nope nope nope nope nope nope nope nope nope nope nope nope nope nope nope nope nope nope nope nope nope nope nope nope nope nope nope nope nope nope nope nope nope nope nope nope nope nope nope nope nope nope nope nope nope nope nope... "

Ish: the other shocking thing about SA is how many women are into ddlg. What's ddlg, I hear you asking. It's Dominant Daddy / Little Girl. It's domination play, with some age play tucked in, where the dynamic is that the "dominant daddy" dominates, punishes, and spoils his "little". Lots of women advertising for it outright, or subtly implying they're interested. It's a thing!

-->"I have had better luck transitioning a CF to a SB. We still see each other ITC but OTC even more, often times just dates or hanging out. It has been a good ride honestly. If I didn't have genuine affection for her I wouldn't keep this up. I would say this is a rare thing because I can't see me doing this with anyone else. I never met a CF who I would want to. So my experience may be somewhat rare but it happened non the less."

Chowder, I've pretty much transitioned every one of my ATFs to an SB. I didn't realize it at the time, it's just the dynamic I enjoyed OTC as we got to know each other. Then I got on SA and realized that, hey, it's pretty identical to a (PPM) arrangement. I haven't really had an ATF at the SC for a few years, just a series of CFs, so all my SBs since then, I've found on SA. But I do have a bead on a stripper that has potential.