What accounts for Good or Bad Strip Club Culture in a City?
Book Guy
I write it like I mean it, but mostly they just want my money.
What factors do you think make for a city's strip club culture to be good or bad? This has come up a few times recently in tangential discussions here. I've always wondered. Politics? Economics? Industry? My thoughts ...
One factor is simply size. If a city is really too small, there's unlikely to be the critical mass necessary for clubs that anyone will enjoy. In my experience, Jackson MS and Shreveport LA are both simply too podunk to have good vice-trade type outlets at all.
Another factor is tourism. Any city with a lot of tourist travel has higher likelihood to have "good" club culture, whereas a similar city with zero tourism has lower likelihood. Seasonal and event-based tourism may also bring in dancers for periods of time -- maybe the ski resorts or the beach resorts get better strip clubs at their times of year? Certainly the Super Bowl will draw hotties to otherwise drab cities.
What about political climate? I would love to say that one or the other end of the political spectrum is better for strip clubs, but that isn't always the case. You'd think the Liberals would let things go free and hairy, like San Francisco CA used to do. But some traditionally Liberal places like Portland OR and Boston MA generally have a poor strip club culture (and I'm not entirely sure why). Meanwhile, ultra-Conservative cities like Salt Lake City UT and almost anywhere in the Bible Belt are simply zero for strip clubs. It seems that the Liberals and the Conservatives both seem to be able to ruin strip clubbing. Further, although Texas generally votes Republican and therefore might be called Conservative, still Texas has some of the best strip clubbing culture cities with Houston and Dallas, further confounding the relation between politics and strip club quality.
Obviously, it also depends on what you mean by "good" of course. If you like extremely over-priced extremely glitzy showgirl type dancers, hard bodies, women who are skinny, probably with large spherical fake tits, and you're willing to put up with very very high club prices for drinks and entry and VIP room, if that's a trade-off that's enjoyable to you, then you're a fan of Las Vegas strip clubs. If you want interpersonal touching that makes you feel like you've met a girlfriend for the night, lower prices, but you're OK with girls who aren't all glam-glam, maybe Las Vegas isn't your favorite. If you want extras available on a reliable basis for sensible prices, then maybe you're interested in the area North of Miami FL (although YMMV and, just about everywhere, something is always available as long as you are willing to pay the price).
Maybe economic downturns? Or interesting jurisdictional borders? I know East St. Louis strip clubbing benefits from being in a location NEAR a major city, but technically across a State line from that city, and further benefits from having few other employment opportunities for many of the young women there. That seems to be good reasoning for why that city has long-standing extras-available club reports. But then, this reasoning should also apply to Gary IN, right across the State line from Chicago, but it generally doesn't. Or to the area of New Jersey near-ish to New York City.
Everywhere I've been, strip clubs are in areas zoned for light or even heavy industry or for all businesses. There are very few strip clubs in strictly residential neighborhoods unless they're out in the suburbs where there's wide driving margins between the parking lots. There are many in the older downtown buildings in many cities. And there are lots in the regions between assembly plants and trucking outlets. Seems to me that City of Industry CA is aptly named.
Urban decay and strip clubs. I love 'em. I could drive the rotten trash-strewn brickyards of America's railroad side of town forever. Stop in for a cool one at a "tavern" type local bar that caters to the world's Archie Bunker types, next door to the hootchie show. Street walkers showing their assets, semi-trailer trucks turning around in small delivery lots with expert tight hairpins, a few abandoned businesses with "For Rent" phone numbers, cracked pavement, a stoplight at every intersection, no pedestrians anywhere except the streetwalkers and their customers, giant stanchions holding up huge signs for "RMV Corp." and "Furniture, Mattresses, Hot!" What's not to like?
What other factors? Size, tourism, Conservatism or Liberalism or Libertarianism, jurisdictions, industry, economic downturns, is there something else that explains it?
One factor is simply size. If a city is really too small, there's unlikely to be the critical mass necessary for clubs that anyone will enjoy. In my experience, Jackson MS and Shreveport LA are both simply too podunk to have good vice-trade type outlets at all.
Another factor is tourism. Any city with a lot of tourist travel has higher likelihood to have "good" club culture, whereas a similar city with zero tourism has lower likelihood. Seasonal and event-based tourism may also bring in dancers for periods of time -- maybe the ski resorts or the beach resorts get better strip clubs at their times of year? Certainly the Super Bowl will draw hotties to otherwise drab cities.
What about political climate? I would love to say that one or the other end of the political spectrum is better for strip clubs, but that isn't always the case. You'd think the Liberals would let things go free and hairy, like San Francisco CA used to do. But some traditionally Liberal places like Portland OR and Boston MA generally have a poor strip club culture (and I'm not entirely sure why). Meanwhile, ultra-Conservative cities like Salt Lake City UT and almost anywhere in the Bible Belt are simply zero for strip clubs. It seems that the Liberals and the Conservatives both seem to be able to ruin strip clubbing. Further, although Texas generally votes Republican and therefore might be called Conservative, still Texas has some of the best strip clubbing culture cities with Houston and Dallas, further confounding the relation between politics and strip club quality.
Obviously, it also depends on what you mean by "good" of course. If you like extremely over-priced extremely glitzy showgirl type dancers, hard bodies, women who are skinny, probably with large spherical fake tits, and you're willing to put up with very very high club prices for drinks and entry and VIP room, if that's a trade-off that's enjoyable to you, then you're a fan of Las Vegas strip clubs. If you want interpersonal touching that makes you feel like you've met a girlfriend for the night, lower prices, but you're OK with girls who aren't all glam-glam, maybe Las Vegas isn't your favorite. If you want extras available on a reliable basis for sensible prices, then maybe you're interested in the area North of Miami FL (although YMMV and, just about everywhere, something is always available as long as you are willing to pay the price).
Maybe economic downturns? Or interesting jurisdictional borders? I know East St. Louis strip clubbing benefits from being in a location NEAR a major city, but technically across a State line from that city, and further benefits from having few other employment opportunities for many of the young women there. That seems to be good reasoning for why that city has long-standing extras-available club reports. But then, this reasoning should also apply to Gary IN, right across the State line from Chicago, but it generally doesn't. Or to the area of New Jersey near-ish to New York City.
Everywhere I've been, strip clubs are in areas zoned for light or even heavy industry or for all businesses. There are very few strip clubs in strictly residential neighborhoods unless they're out in the suburbs where there's wide driving margins between the parking lots. There are many in the older downtown buildings in many cities. And there are lots in the regions between assembly plants and trucking outlets. Seems to me that City of Industry CA is aptly named.
Urban decay and strip clubs. I love 'em. I could drive the rotten trash-strewn brickyards of America's railroad side of town forever. Stop in for a cool one at a "tavern" type local bar that caters to the world's Archie Bunker types, next door to the hootchie show. Street walkers showing their assets, semi-trailer trucks turning around in small delivery lots with expert tight hairpins, a few abandoned businesses with "For Rent" phone numbers, cracked pavement, a stoplight at every intersection, no pedestrians anywhere except the streetwalkers and their customers, giant stanchions holding up huge signs for "RMV Corp." and "Furniture, Mattresses, Hot!" What's not to like?
What other factors? Size, tourism, Conservatism or Liberalism or Libertarianism, jurisdictions, industry, economic downturns, is there something else that explains it?
29 comments
In the somewhat bigger towns, do the clubs have different owners, or is there a “cornered market.” For example, I’ve never been but I’ve heard negative things about the MAL chain somewhere in the Carolinas. Or I guess in the even way way bigger towns, there may be an issue (I’m looking at you, Vu chain in San Francisco).
In the cities, I’m not completely sure on the most important thing for club culture. I like different clubs for different reasons, and appreciate the variety. Some of the things already mentioned are the answers.
Boston and Providence are both liberal cities, but the former sucks and the latter is great because of a more uptight puritanical culture vs the more relaxed (and mob driven) one.
Bible belt seems to suck but still has bright spots like Atlanta.
Haven't clubbed in Florida in a long time but sounds like it's great overall despite having shifted politically right.
Las Vegas is a city where people go to be asshats and drop loads of money, so it makes sense that it's a place that rips off drunk idiot tourists.
Haven't clubbed in New York in forever but when I lived there, there was a variety. Fitting for a place that has some of the richest and the poorest in America. But it's a hustling sort of place and the women acted accordingly.
But seriously...
I've had a great time at clubs in major metro areas, and I've had a lousy time at clubs in major metro areas.
I've had a great time in clubs in smaller cities, and a lousy time in clubs in smaller cities.
I've had a great time in a <choose political climate> state, and a lousy time in that same state.
And so on, and so on...
Unless the local laws regarding clubs are so strict that basically all clubs in that area are probably going to be unappealing, I think it really just comes down to two things. First, can you find one or more clubs that are well-managed and at least get the basics right? And second, can you find at least one dancer that you can connect with enough to have a great time on a give night? :)
I think maybe most of us would agree that a good club is one where it's up to the dancer and the PL what they do and don't do together. I don't think there's a "culture" of support for that anywhere. Such clubs survive as long as they can largely fly under the radar of the more general culture of the city or town. Which means staying out of the news. The death blow is when you get people in LE who's job security depends on them creating a lot of busywork for themselves, harassing the local strip club(s). It seems somewhat random where that does and doesn't happen, and to what degree.
There are social libertarians on both the left and right. There were those on the right who use to demonize strippers, but fortunately, that is much less common now. The new thing, among many on both the left and right, is to see stripping as akin to being a heroin addict. If you claim it's you right as a free person to do it, that only proves you're incompetent to exercise your full rights as an adult.
Areas That Spirit The Strip Club Culture & Has Surrounding Businesses Or Specific Right Culture Of People Is Vital. Remember, You Want To Avoid Business Vs Culture Conflicts. Supportive Financially & Friendly Areas With Good, Safe, & Social Factors Are Important.
Traditional Strip Club Social Spirit While Not Dragging In Political Things Of UnInterest/Conflict & Focusing On The Club & Stripper Business Relationship Is An Additional Factor. Good Values Of Mutual Traditions, Social Spirit & Financial Support For Good Entertainment In The Strip Club/Adult Segment Is Crucial.
1. There is a lot of contempt, sometimes to the point of violence, between strippers and PLs.
2. There is a lot of contempt, sometimes to the point of violence, between people in (at least nominally) exclusive relationships.
But, somehow, the question of whether strip clubs are actually, statistically worse than marriage never gets asked. If you asked it in general company, you'd probably be told you were anit-fambly-values, and dubiously should be suffered to live. We don't seem to want to face it that people are shit, and the best we can do is to seek to wisely manage the shitiness. We delude ourselves that marriage can cure our shitiness, and that leads to the idea that a draconian ban on sex work makes sense.
There are lots of components to what goes into a club and while politics or tourism or macro factors can generally make a difference, the much more relevant factors are club specific, i.e. the owners and managers. Those are the people who dictate pricing and enforcement of rules. Some clubs have a history of a type and the owners/managers maintain it or change it. Those are the factors that make a difference.
After reading all the discussion I'm leaning toward Hank Moody's micro explanation and From978's explanation's reliance on individual political leadership. Can we export those helpful guys from cities that have good strip club culture to cities where the club culture is pathetic? Are they geographically transferable skills?
This has changed over the last decade as increasing crime has driven many middle class customers out of the city. The local government did little to stop this. The girls make less money now so dancer quality has declined.
Way I see it: strip clubs are random. I use to offhand wonder if strip clubs are near colleges. But they aren't; just because a few I knew were.
There's been a real-life stripclub like a mile from The White House for decades. Yes, Thee White House. Strip clubs are random, man. They can kinda hatch anywhere.
Florida has more churches per capital than any US state, right? Or something like that. But ain't it only behind Texas in number of stripclubs?
Populations change. Vermont and New Hampshire ain't got many or any stripclubs. That could change with any population shift.
Also, the history of how a city has interacted with clubs for the previous 25-30 years impacts the present. In my metro (San Diego) it's basically impossible to open a new club. Historically downtrodden areas have gentrified to the point there is no where left to push the homeless and we don't have a ton of purely industrial areas. New affluent suburbs are going to zone out clubs. It's the whole new idea about sex work where people don't mind it as much in the abstract, but they don't want to drive past it every day.
So in a city where the only existing clubs are grandfathered in, the individual choices of 4-5 owners have a big impact on cities. So does the number of clubs owned by corporations like Deja Vu and Ricks, which generally are viewed as adequate at best rather than great clubs.
Clubs need a geographical niche to thrive. This can mean a city with an industrial area that allows clubs. It can mean places like Florida where if you don't like the local rules you can drive 30 minutes to somewhere with better rules. It can be a "rough" area that hasn't gentrified yet, but those are rapidly disappearing in most of the country, often pushing out clubs.
You're joking, right? Have you ever been to Portland?
The thing that creates a good club culture is competition. DejaVu has an effective monopoly on San Francisco, and it sucks. Portland, ME is controlled by Rick's and it sucks. The chain in the Carolinas is supposed to be terrible. Competition creates good customer experiences, unless you find yourself in a race to the bottom (e.g. airlines). Markets with diversified ownership will naturally lead to having some standout clubs.
All this being said, I like blah's notion of competition. I think culture and drug use play a major factor as well. I don't know enough about Providence if it applies there, but based on reviews, it seems to apply to Seattle.
I would disagree with OP regarding tourism. In high tourist area you are very unlikely to be a repeat customer. They MO would be to fleece each customer as much as possible as a one off without any fear of lost business in the future.
As one poster noted, it really boils down to how much LE cares. In some sense this is political, but not in the traditional red/blue divide. It is surprising that solidly red areas can either be fully puritan about it or down right wild west about it. It is really more about how much pressure the local residents care and in turn pressure local government. If it is a winning issue with voters they crack down on clubs. If there are bigger fish to fry, the clubs are left alone. You might think that very liberal areas would be more permissive but in actuality they are generally (imo) keen to try to legislate outcomes and you get a very mediocre club environment.