Is SA competing with strip clubs?

I think SA as well as cam sites and traditional escort sites are both competition for strip clubs in the grand scheme of things. There are a limited number of young women who want to make money from their looks and a limited amount of money for men to spend on sexual fantasies.

SA is most likely the biggest competition for the girls you prefer since those girls can rationalize what they are doing as if it isn't the same as prostitution the same way strippers who occasionally do OTC can. In the end they are willing to have sex for money, but they want a sense that they will only do it with a select few men and only for the right offer.

To me the girls that choose camming over dancing are the ones that are more likely to have given air dances if they worked a club. They don't mind strangers looking at them while they are naked but don't want strangers touching them.

The girls that do traditional escort sites or porn are more transactional typically. They are like the dancers that go straight for the "wanna dance?" approach instead of building a connection first.

The good news is there is still a lot of crossover between all these groups and a lot of women do at least two or more of those options. After all, it is important to have multiple revenue streams in this economy.

I don’t think I’d say that SA is competing with the strip clubs, I think it’s more about different forms of entertainment, competing for a diminishing share of disposable income.

2 different things. Sa is a place for hookers. Most dancers aren't hookers and most men don't go to them looking for hookers

And in any city hookers are on as many social media platforms as they can

Icey. STFU. No one on this site values one thing you say.

Of course, it is competition. Is it a different experience than a strip club ? Yes it is. But it still keeps guys away. I"m one of those. I joined SA about 4 years ago. My strip clubbing has gone down 80% since then. If fact, over the past two years almost all of my strip club visits are WITH a sugar baby.

I only have so much time to monger and only so much semen in my body. I have learned the system on SA so I can find dates without all that much effort. And I have more pussy to poke than I have time to poke it. I'm actually culling the herd now and cutting back on some girls. I had a date for tonight that I just made up some lie so I could get out of it. It's nice to be on the other side of that occurrence .

===> "Most dancers aren't hookers and most men don't go to them looking for hookers"

Alright honey. It's not like most of the guys on here have dealt with thousands of dancers over decades or anything. You just keep on educating us about how many of them are hookers and how many of us go looking for that. 😉

And it's completion for the talent also. I run across a fair number of strippers that are on SA. The way they see it. Thru a PPM they can make about the same amount as an average club session and don't have to put up with the BS that they have to put up with inside a strip club. And they feel more in control over who is putting their hands on them.

===> "Of course, it is competition. Is it a different experience than a strip club ? Yes it is. But it still keeps guys away. I"m one of those."

Exactly and you're not the only one on here. Now I find myself spreading it out a lot more as well. Now sure other forms of adult entertainment can also divert dollars, but I don't see anyone else on here talking about any other forms of adult entertainment that diverts them away from clubs like SA does.

I agree that the experience is different, but it ultimately provides a lot of the same benefits. Namely sexy flirty time with a beautiful young woman followed by a great finish. I don't think that it will ever be a complete substitute for me, but it is definitely eating into my club spending.

The fact that a fair number of dancers are on SA would suggest that SA is not just competing for SC customer dollars, but also for SC talent. SA has also "Uberized" sex work to some degree, and provided a part-time, as-needed platform for women who'd never think of committing to employment as a full-time escort or dancer.

Which is why SA is also (and possibly to a greater degree) competition to escorts. Most of the better looking and better reviewed escorts require that a new customer give up a fair amount of personal information to protect themselves against law enforcement stings, and that discourages a fair number of guys. As far as I know, there have been no LE stings targeting SA (at least not yet), so the women on that platform aren't requiring that information.

Most guys go to strip clubs to party. Get a bottle and have strippers twerk in yoir section. Enjoy drinks and dances.

Most aren't looking for hookers and most definitely aren't looking to cheat on their wives.

Hooker sites are something else. They're not jn competition. You tricks aren't the norm when it comes to SC patrons

I always say this when these come up but it really is all market dependent. In NY or LA girls can be really successful on there. Absolutely a thing. I met a girl in San Diego who did not dance in San Diego, she danced in Vegas she didn't like the SD/Cali rules but you'd have to think if there was no seeking she would have to bear down stripping or find something else. And in some smaller towns, strip clubs take it no question because there aren't enough sugar daddies for them to keep logging in even to check. In those cases I would say strip clubs are better probably for customer and dancer.

Hookers working jn clubs advertise on social media and other sites for more tricks. That doesn't impact clubs

Alright Icee honey. It's not like most of the guys on here have dealt with thousands of dancers over decades or anything. You just keep on educating us about how many of them are hookers and how many of us go looking for that. 😉

Rick you pay for hookers. You troll clubs to cheat on your wife. You're not the typical SC patron

Alright Icee honey. It's not like most of the guys on here have dealt with thousands of dancers over decades or anything. You just keep on educating us about how many of them are hookers and how many of us go looking for that. 😉

I’m a poster child for this, I’m rotating 12 sb’s right now off of SA and am to busy and happy to go in to the lane clubs in swfl.

One thing about seeking though. There's a lot of chaffe to get to the wheat on there. At least for my tastes. Zero hiring standards required to make a profile. If I'm looking at page out of 100 I might message two or three off there.

^ But Mud, to your earlier point, it's very market related. In Nashville, I have a hard time finding any girl worth messaging. In Miami, there are pages and pages of hotties that are begging me to contact them.

Holy Cow Htxx. You have 12 in your rotation ? You da MAN !!!

Yes it is competition. I club less than I did pre SA. So its definitely taking men outa the SC.

Is it taking dancers away from dancing? Probably.

@muddy you can set a filter on SA to search certain ages and body types you know? If you filter for only under 30 and slim or athletic. And white. I'd say it's MUCH higher appeal rate than 3%. If I'm hitting a new city, I'll shotgun out multiple messages and and see what sticks. Chat up those who respond and see who has potential.

Yeah I actually do that and still. I'm just picky, I chalk it up to the hedonic treadmill, I'm just looking for something just right, otherwise I just try to save

Damn Muddy, I'm glad I don't have your picky standards!

I will say my MOA on SA is probably less picky than I am in the clubs. In clubs, I am always drawn to the youngest athletic hard bodies. I've had several of those on SA, but I've found for an actual night out and then in.... the majority of the sweet spot is high 20s low 30s.

If anything is competition for strip clubs, it's SA. I think camming/OF girls have video production skills, not people skills. And any girl worth it in the club definitely has people skills.

@Htxx

Ya wrote, and I quote;

“I’m rotating 12 sb’s right now off of SA and am to busy and happy to go in to the lane clubs in swfl.”

Pics and Vids or it didn’t happen.

:D

Good Times, Good Times.

Of course all the avenues for sex workers to make money are in competition. Dug.

I still don't understand SA tho. I'm not even judging what the ladies do, just the pricing is way too low to be doing all that.

Duh**

@ blah
As a long time veteran here’s what I see sa vs clubs. In clubs dancers are in control of who they select to entertain. They’re also in the club for an extended time frame often can’t leave. Values for services get pushed up. Sa is a quick hit and then they can go on about the day and/or attend to their kid. It’s a higher return on a shorter timeframe.

@ muddy you’re correct. It’s a bell curve; there’s been 5 - 6 no shows, a few that I wasn’t interested in after meeting as pics weren’t accurate then the majority have been great and a few that are absolutely rockstars. I have one that comes to visit on her lunch hour as her work is very close to me. I have another who comes to me on her way to the gym at 6:30 in the am. I’m enjoying sa immensely.
@3131 agreed. Filters are set, message is just copied and pasted, then sit back and see who responds. It can’t get any easier. Then after initial meets it’s just pick and choose. I will say this the single mothers are generally faster to get in bed. But the early 20’s are also hot and more open to whatever I like. I asked one aren’t you worried I could be a bad guy and her reply was something about sharing her location with a friend so wasn’t worried about her safety.
Initially I went out to a few clubs near me but sa is much easier and overall less expensive when I put a value on my time.

So I was bored and looked what sugar hos n tricks posted $$$$ wise on reddit.

Seems most of the boys posted something phenomenally cheap like $200-$400 a meet and most of the girls posted significantly higher but still believable numbers. A few of them posted some shit that seemed borderline ludicrous but idk it could be legit lmfao. I'm just wondering why most dudes were posting $200-$400 a meet which is super low for expecting sex and most chicks were saying more like $600-$1000 + a meet


I assume that the truth is somewhere in the middle. Seems like men are motivated to lower their numbers and women would raise theirs in this situation.

I pay 4-600 depends on the girl. I do pay a little more when I go to their place. Candidly though the two women that I’ve seen at their residences are each over an hour drive from me so I don’t see them as often. It’s just to inconvenience now compared to all the others

SA would be competition with strip clubs for the high-income high spending customers. I have noticed a drop in this type of customer in local strip clubs, so something seems to be pulling them away and it could very well be this. This is harmful for strip clubs, and they may need to rethink their current business model.

For the middle-income guy who just buys two or three lap dances, like me, SA is no competition at all. I visited a pretty little Mexican dancer I've known for a couple years at a nearby strip club tonight. As soon as she spotted me, she headed for me and then started hugging me. After our lap dances, rather than walking off, she started telling me about how she was unhappy because of her pet dog passing away which then turned into a conversation about pets in general. She is very affectionate with and spends a lot of time with some old guy who just comes in once a month and buys a couple of lap dances. I have other regulars like that too. With the limited amount of money that I have to spend and girls like this at the strip club, SA isn't going to pull me away.

SA cost will vary by city and quality.

Nationwide over the past 4 + years I've found the sweet spot is 4 - 6. I'd say with inflation the past year there are fewer 400s available. Some trends toward requests for 7, but I've rarely exceeded 6.

===> "SA is most likely the biggest competition for the girls you prefer since those girls can rationalize what they are doing as if it isn't the same as prostitution the same way strippers who occasionally do OTC can."

Whodey, exactly this. Women have a rather amazing ability to rationalize almost anything under the right circumstances. Indeed it is how I've converted a lot of hesitant girls over the years - build some rapport, treat them with dignity and wait until the right moment comes along. The genius of SA is that those rationalization tools are already baked right into the system.

I saw this play out just last night. Out of the blue, my SB, as she's putting her clothes back on after one heck of a good lay, let me know that she isn't a prostitute because she values herself more. I of course wisely agreed, right before discreetly laying the money down on a table. I guess the fact that we go to dinner and drinks first makes it more of a date than a paid sexual transaction. I of course never mentioned that what I pay her is my normal outer range for stripper OTC. 😉

In my experience if you are comparing SA girls to have the same mindset, goals and experience as strippers then that's a mistake. Ok the Venn diagram of "sex work" the SA circle does include strippers and escorts but there is a sizable group of "other* that exists out there. Allot of these girls place more value on other utility of the experience if you can offer it (particularly LTA type arrangements). Not to sound like our resident fake pimp troll but many girls just want someone to treat them right and have fun outside of just "meet me at this hotel for $$$$". Also in my experience you are willing to provide stability and consistency this has its own value which if you do the math lowers net ppm if you really want to focus on the math.

But to answer Rick's primary question the time and $ I spent were $ not spent on strippers at or from the club. It also keeps a girl who may be on the fence about being seen in public as a stripper to decide to stay more private on SA.

I think absolutely SA and otc strippers appeal to the same type of guy. Due to my present circumstances I've moved more over to the SA side but there are a lot of similarities to the otc strippers that are somewhat selective in who they want to see. In fact a good percentage of SA girls I've seen in the last few years either were ex strippers or became strippers.

SA girls never NEVER look as good as their pictures, if you can even get pictures from them without paying.

^ I will say that the one distinct benefit of strip clubs over SA is the ability to go there and see them in person without that awkward "Oh, I guess you looked like your profile images 10 years and 100 pies ago...".

Yes, but that works in favor for those hounds to harvest the remains. Slim pickings at times, but
It seems like the clubs are picking up in options/choices, lately.

I've surprisingly seen only a small percentage of SA girls show up substantially different than their pictures. Yeah there was the "29" year old that showed up 40.
Maybe 2 or 3 that were substantially heavier.

Had a couple that actually surprised me showing up. Like I was expecting a 7 ad this was 8 or 9 range

The WORST is trying to filter out the girls that will last minute cancel. Or even no show. I still haven't perfected it.

I like to get a little back and forth chat via text. Any red flags like problems with their car or phone, headaches, or drug problems are usually a no for me.
Use of whatsapp is still a zero percent chance of success for me to date. I might stop even communicating there. I refuse to download kik.

Snap has been 50/50
The younger girls like it.

===> "I've surprisingly seen only a small percentage of SA girls show up substantially different than their pictures. "

Same here actually. I've met a handful now and only one looked very different. But I am also very careful in reviewing the pics and screening out the pros. There are some girls that will post 8-10 pics and most look great, but then you'll see the one she tries to slip in there - probably the most recent - in which she looks much larger or older than in her other pics.

One trick I have learned. When texting back and forth, I actually mention the catfishing on the site. I will then ask them to text me a recent pic and I will offer to do the same back to them. You are most likely going to get a recent pic then. I'm thinking they dont' want to search around for an old one. The actual catfishes will refuse to send one.

Rick I think the traditional escort sites, tryst etc are competition for strip clubs, especially in areas where there arent many strip clubs, extras clubs or attractive dancers available. You won’t see it play out clearly, but for instance in the DC area many guys don’t even bother with the clubs and just go to SA or escort sites or AMPs instead. If there are many dancers quoting high prices like $1000 for OTC- then the pornstar escorts charging that much also become competition.

Some of the other comments are correct in that you’re more likely to find college students, waitresses, retail workers etc on SA. Some of the USASG guys just go for waitresses or go to college bars.

“2 different things. Sa is a place for hookers. Most dancers aren't hookers and most men don't go to them looking for hookers”

The above is how you want things to be Icee, not the actual reality of things.

“Hookers working jn clubs advertise on social media and other sites for more tricks. That doesn't impact clubs“
???

Blah what do you consider cheap and what rates did you see on sa that were low? $400 is not cheap, in $600+ youre in famous playboy model and pornstar territory. the guys spending $1000 on otc maybe aren’t aware of the options available or are too scared to meet SA or escort girls

@moneyman inflation has hit recently in my experience. Cities that I could always find options at 400 are more like 500 now.

The 1000 requests are also becoming more frequent. These used to be only the mid 20s college cheerleaders, true 9 or 10s, or pork star lookers. I'm getting 1k quotes from 34 year old moms sometimes. Attractive women, but these would a been 5 or 600 a few years ago.

*porn

@warrior: "In fact, over the past two years almost all of my strip club visits are WITH a sugar baby."

WTF???? Once again I am amazed at the next level mongering. I can't imagine having the time or budgetary leeway from Mrs. C for this level. Impressed!

@Rick:

WRT the original question, at my level the two are very different.


SA seems to be for guys with a sizeable and regular SW budget, as well as a lot of unsupervised free time on their hands.


Clubs on the other hand are for guys who want to get on-tap SWs at a lower price point, at a narrow and convenient window of time. Also, coincidentally for guys who want to make it rain on their bachelor party or whatever. And silly men who drop $1000 on air dances just 'cause. Lulz.


The two are technically both SW sources, but that's like saying that streetwalkers are competing with TNA girls... technically sure they are getting dollars and semen, but they're kind of different beasts, again at my level.


For the OP's purposes I can see the competition a bit more clearly: OTC vs SA girls probably are adjacent if not overlapping.

I created a dummy SA account to peruse last night. It looked like a bad version of Eros--a lot of puffed up women who think they're worth a lot more than they actually are. I see a lot of hoodrat types who try to market themselves as "classy" so they can charge $750 a night vs. the $150 they'd get anywhere else. Or am I missing something? How can you tell if it's an actual escort vs. a sugar baby vs. someone who actually wants to date a richer man?

I'm getting away from P4P in general. Just feels like "been there done that." Strip club extras prices are still affordable, just more than I feel is worth it. $400 for 15 minutes of FS just isn't worth it. But curious about SA since I hear so much about it.

Couple other Red Flags.
I avoid really new profiles in general. Those are most often the scammers that keep making new ones.

I also avoid profiles with limited description.

If a profile goes dead after you've started texting, but before your meet..... also a bad sign. She got reported for something or else blocked you.

"Is SA competing with strip clubs?"

Yes, and it depends on what the customers are looking for who'll be open to it. I don't do SA myself but understand the appeal.

3131 that’s interesting. I have seen the clubs getting less traffic now- and some girls charging $300 an hour on eros which i rarely saw last year.

Olivia fox, famous playboy model in houston charges just $700 an hour. You could fly there, not get a hotel, meet her, fly back for maybe $1100 or less.

I am just going to throw this out there that due to competition seems the prices of sht may be lower if these girls advertise online. If they find their sugar daddies or whatever else using some other less competitive avenues, I feel like they get more money but whatever. I knew some dumb fat half Mexican single mom that thought she was hot shit cuz she sucked some 70+ year old's dick and would get $800 or somewhere around there? Like she danced somewhere I did and bragged about this shit to anyone who would listen. I'm like whatever that's just gross keep it to urself. Anyways my point is- a girl as ugly as her would probably not get anywhere near $800 for less than full svc if she was competing online with LOTS of hot chicks I'm sure.

===> "I'm just wondering why most dudes were posting $200-$400 a meet which is super low for expecting sex and most chicks were saying more like $600-$1000 + a meet. I assume that the truth is somewhere in the middle."

Maybe it is somewhere in the middle. But keep in mind that strippers have a very different view of money than most civilian girls. For a girl who takes care of animals or works retail for a living (by way of two examples), $400 for a couple of hours out is a damned nice piece of side money.

But with that said, there is definitely variance in price ranges and experiences. The girls offering it up for $200 are usually those that could be found on places like STG and you definitely get what you pay for. There are also other types of quick strike pros who are doing volume but find SA to be a better selling spot than escort sites.

The girls who don't do this for a living, OTOH, tend to want more. They are often the same ones who want more than just a quick strike. It's all part of convincing themselves that they are not prostitutes, once again the genius of SA. They also tend to use different terminology, like "allowance" instead of "donation", even when it's ppm. These are the ones I gravitate to and when I do dinner, drinks and then the finish, it is definitely replacing a club night for me.

STG?

STG = Skip the Games

Escort site with fat ugly desperate women

Thanks and also Ahahahahahahah!

This is quite enlightening.

I am also curious why 34 yr old single moms would expect $1000? Like are these Victoria's Secret model or Kim Kardashian level women? What do they look like?


I still can't understand how single moms think they are hot shit or in demand even slightly, but I was raised in a different culture.

'Escort site with fat ugly desperate women'


But not quite as desperate as the men that use that site to hook up with them.

"I still can't understand how single moms think they are hot shit or in demand even slightly"

Hot is hot. Kids or no kids. The dancer I want to be my next fav has two and looks like she has zero. I was shocked when she talked about her kids. She's not in her 30's, but if she keeps herself up (like my ATF did) then she'll still be hot when the next decade comes around.

Yeah once in a while that happens but when I was talking about the typical ugly fat stomach ed half mex broad single mom I mean the bitch is ugly af in the face and body.

I rarely see single moms that don't look like they ever had kids. Most moms I see who kept themselves up are married.

Anyways I am biased since I believe these single never married non-rich moms are bottom class societal trash.

I am also really biased against these sluts cuz a lot of them have had their children taken away. I would fucking kill myself if 1) I was stupid enough to get pregnant by someone not married to me without my kids on his will and life insurance 2) had my kid or kids taken away on top of that

I can see SA as competition for escorts and massage parlors, but not for strip clubs.

Maybe I'm naive, but I believe extras girls are in the minority. I go for sensual, but not sexual. I like to be entertained, titillated, flattered, and fondled, but rarely ever consider more. I just want to be with sexy, naked, flirtatious women and beer.

So no, I still think there is a big difference been openly P4P sites like SA and strip clubs.

But I am pretty sure SA does take away customers from clubs. Sure they might be extras seeking customers but you can still often somehow convince them to part with their money without needing to do all that if they like your look and/or personality.

I'll just echo what wall said - hot is hot. A current CF is one of the the hottest girls in the club any time she works. I've had a fair share of OTC "friends" over the years who were similarly hot.

The challenges for these girls are caring for themselves properly during pregnancy and after they give birth. If a girl is in good health, takes decent care of herself during pregnancy and works to get back in shape once the baby is born, there's a good chance you'd never know that she has a kid. If anything, pregnancy makes some girls hotter by filling in their boobs and sometimes even their hips a bit more.

What sucks is when a girl has to have a C-section. At best she'll have a scar that she always feels like she has to hide. But when they don't go well, I've seen them really fuck up some girls' tummy areas forever.

For those mentioning 400-600, is this multi-hours and multi-pops, with some downtime and maybe watch a movie in between rounds ? If so, I could see being tempted to periodically trade a strip club visit for this. But not for just an hour.

Why would girls who work clubs fck for only like $500? That's crazy to me.

^ Blah, what aren't you understanding about this? Do you really think that every girl makes $500 every night consistently in every club across the country?

It doesn't matter what you made yesterday or last month if you're burning through your cash as fast as you earn it. IME most girls who eventually agree to OTC have others relying upon them, whether it's kids, useless parents or an equally useless SO. I've known plenty who had both the kids and a useless SO and a few who had the damned trifecta.

With so many people on their tits, they aren't well positioned to ride out the downswings that often happen during certain times of year or when the clubs slow down for other reasons (like the economy). When these downswings occur, IME a lot more girls become suddenly open to an OTC adventure.

Some of them also don't plan well for extraordinary expenses, like holidays, back-to-school shopping and birthdays. For these girls, even if they make their normal nut, it might not be as much as they need. Early August and late December are my two favorite times of the year in the clubs, lol.

Anyway, it is what it is. Feel free to circle back if there is anything else that I can explain. 😉

@wld4tatas so I met a new sb today at 1:30; hour long get to know each other lunch. She came over to my place and left at 5:30. 27 yo, her pics were from two years ago she was a sold 8 in person but pics had had her at a 9 so a little off. Had a great afternoon w her. $400 plus lunch. Two pops for me. I’m seeing her again Wednesday night. She had a kid a couple of years ago. Bolivian. I like latinas especially the ones not norn here. For me SA is great here in swfl. I’m getting laid daily and rotating women in and out. I don’t understand the hate toward sa, maybe it’s a locational thing but I’ll tell all the pl’s out there that it’s fucking awesome in the Naples area!

In smaller markets, and even large .... alot of dancers don't bring home 500 per night. Maybe Saturday night.


@wldtatas I'm usually hanging out for drinks or dinner, then the hotel. Total time with me is usually 2 to 4 hours. I've had half a dozen double pops, but those were rarities when she just stays around and chills long enough for me to get horny again. I've never asked for it, it just happened. 95% of the time either she or I get dressed immediately and that's a good clue that it's over.

@htxx I'm going to need to plan a trip

Lord lol. These chicks just got zero game. I am not perfect and have certainly let myself go and still not doing so bad that I'd do otc sex/dick sucking for 2-4 hours or wherever for $500 or whatever. To each their own I guess. I don't blame men for taking advantage. I am just amazed every single day how mentally retarded these American and latina bitches are.

If a woman wants to make the best money as an FS sex worker, why would be be on SA rather than escorting? All the answers I can think of to that question make me think escorts are more suited to me. It was common for my fav escorts to not stick to the one hour time limit. Because they could tell I didn't think I was better than them. I wasn't pushy with them about doing things that made them uncomfortable. I learned how to give a half-way decent back rub. For me, drinking is for parties, not dates. And the last thing my fat ass needs is more restaurant meals.

^Agreed 1000%

@bla:"Why would girls who work clubs fck for only like $500? That's crazy to me."

Maybe slow shifts have something to do with it. Watching the local club instagram posts it seems like there are times when no PLs are coming in, and $500 probably looks better than $0.

^Yeah I am assuming that is their mindset, but that is just straight desperate and cheap in a pricey city with basic rents like $2k a month. I guess like if they are ok with what they are doing for that price whatever then, fuck it. I just feel like if all you wanna make is a few hundred you can just go online if the clubs are very slow at the moment.

@ blah she told me she enjoyed the “adult time” away from her kid, throw in some money and maybe I’m not to bad in bed but it was a fun few hours for me and she agreed to repeat. Maybe it’s just a single mom thing. The sb that sees me at 6:30 am is 22 and $500 but no kids and is strictly an hour but she says that’s because she’s still gotta hit the gym lol. Who the fuck knows but I don’t care anyway. There’s enough people available to find the “right” connection for each of us. It’s just a numbers game. Make enough contacts until you get what you want

Most of you seem to think that being a stripper and SA girl are mutually exclusive. I think many are doing both. I am not a fan of SA (mainly because there is just too much of an electronic trail), but many strippers I know have told me that they do both. A few did use Blah's rational, that they try to charge for SA the same amount that they would make for a shift at the club. I am not sure why they have to give up a shift. IF they dance nights, do the SA during the day, or if they dance day, why not SA at night?

Rick do you think older 40+ women working jobs at retail or fast food are likely open to p4p, and cheap p4p like $100-$200?

Ye a lot of strippers I've encountered do the sugaring thing so they are not mutually exclusive

Blah why did you dislike ricks post? It was 100% correct and objective

What I'll never understand is trucks who think they're somehow special or exclusive to a hooker. They're on as many sites as possible. And take vegas for example. The same girls working in the club or on apps are the same ones walking the strip. It's the tricks who are delusional

^ Icee, are you educating us again honey? It's always cute when a 20-something year old girl shares her deep wisdom with guys twice her age and with 50 times her experience. Keep up the good work kiddo. 😉

I mean for real tho, it's funny when guys are like o ye I'm rotating 12 sugar babies. Like they aren't rotating and scheduling their SD's LoL

ilbbaicnl: "If a woman wants to make the best money as an FS sex worker, why would be be on SA rather than escorting?"

Right! If a woman's goal is to make the best money as a FS sex worker, she's usually better off escorting. Since she's on SA and not escorting, the wrong part of the assumption is obvious :)

I'm spending much more on SA than the SC these days also. Although a good part of that is driven by the fact that there are no dayshifts in SF anymore. I would start spending more at the SCs again if that changes, but I'm not entirely sure the change isn't permanent.

^ I know I tend to go on tangents, but I think day shifts are somewhat reduced in a number of areas. I have also seen to where day or mid shift is better than night shift in some places cuz the $$$$ customers are literally afraid to come out at night...

COVID ruined the strip club experience for me and I diverted a lot of my spending to SA. Do parlors include SAs? I would think so. When the clubs shut down I had to do some digging. Many SA options were still open. Looking back at it is wasnt the safest route, but so was sitting in my apartment alone stuffing my face with food. The SA option eliminates all the mind games with dancers, dealing with bouncers/managers, or clingy regulars. And in most cases parlors are the same price or cheaper that a night a strip club. NJ/NYC has a healthy stream of girls new to the country who would rather open thier legs than clean your home depot.

A strip club experience is still fun to grab a beer and talk with a big group of women, but the LD experience seems silly when you can do more for the same price with the same quality girl

===> "Right! If a woman's goal is to make the best money as a FS sex worker, she's usually better off escorting."

But that's not the goal of many SA girls or even some dancers who see some guys OTC. They don't view themselves as prostitutes. Heck a fair % of the SA girls have vanilla day jobs. They would never dream of putting themselves out on public escort sites, where any random dude can contact them sight unseen and try to meet up with them.

Never underestimate the ability of women to rationalize what they would otherwise consider unacceptable. Again, that's the genius of SA. Sometimes when I'm converting a no to a yes in the club I have to help her along by providing her with some rationalizations to lean on when crossing the Rubicon. SA has these rationalizations already baked into the process.

I could never get into SA. I looked and found a bunch of garbage. Between the fake accounts, the streetwalkers trying to seem classy, the reasonably attractive with over inflated ego's, and other bullshit, I just didn't find anything like what I see when I go to club. I even paid, against my better judgement, for 90 days or something. I just tried to log back in, and as soon as I hit search my account was suspended.

I don't know if I'm using it wrong, or if it's vastly different from area to area, but my experience was just remarkably poor.

@rickdugan: "Never underestimate the ability of women to rationalize what they would otherwise consider unacceptable."

The same could be said for many of the men who meet dancers OTC. "She's not a prostitute, so I'm not a John."

To be fair, it's not always *just* rationalization, on either side. As you alluded, there are some very real risks to actually advertising as an escort, and for the men, in meeting one. I've met a number of dancers who absolutely acknowledge what they're doing (maybe not so much on SA; I have less experience there), and use their club time for much the same purpose *we* do, i.e. to size someone up before agreeing to meet up elsewhere.

That's not to say that there isn't a lot of rationalization going on for both the men and the women, but it's not the *whole* story.

===> "That's not to say that there isn't a lot of rationalization going on for both the men and the women, but it's not the *whole* story."

Agreed that these things come in a variety of flavors and that I'm oversimplifying a bit. I tend to do my fishing with hotter ITC non-extras girls, which definitely colors my perceptions a bit. There is almost always a time ramp to get from no to yes with them. But I've also met plenty of girls over the years who were quite obviously in the clubs shopping for outside regulars, some tipping their hands early in the process and others more subtly.

SA is similarly a mixed bag in some respects. There are plenty of pros on there, which take some time and effort to weed through. There are also plenty of scammers, which I've become pretty good at weeding through quickly as there are a lot of telltale signs that give them away.

The girls that I seek on SA are the ones who, like my favorite stripper partners, are using this as supplemental income. Now that's not to say that I'm the only guy they're seeing, but with full time jobs (where they aren't fucking and sucking) and kids at home when they're not working, they only have so many opportunities to go out on dates. Like with my favorite OTC strippers, the experiences are far more natural and the girls involved tend to do a lot more rationalizing to make it OK.

I can only imagine that SW's have the same range of tastes, ethics, preferences, red lines, perceptions of convenience, etc. that we all do wrt taking a specific job within their field. It can't be as simple as "TNA will make me 15% more than SA, so now I'm a hooker". I was reading some papers on why people don't use the plentiful food bank resources in the USA (prior thread) and often subjects will report that they pass on the resource because of aspects of taste ("I don't like the food", "I don't like the staff", "I don't like the neighborhood") or matters of self perception ("I'm not that poor", "that's for people who are really desperate, not me", "I have my principles"). In a reductive sense, it all can be described as taking money for sex, but for the person in the business, there are probably many bright lines that are obscured to us as customers.

To be more clear, the food bank avoiders recognized the clear value of the resource, but still chose to avoid it. In a numbers sense, this doesn't add up.... why pass on something of obvious value? The answer was taste, self perception, etc. which isn't limited to just food bank attendees and SW's, but is probably something we all consider to some extent.

Rephrase the question do hookers working clubs compete with hookers working sa. Then the answer js yes. Although it's the same hookers using both platforms

^ Icee, are you educating us again honey? It's always cute when a 20-something year old girl shares her deep wisdom with guys twice her age and with 50 times her experience. Keep up the good work kiddo. 😉

No, there could be crossover but there could be distinct reasons why a dancer offers OTC but doesnt post on SA. Clubs dont allow photography so if someone wanted to remain more low key they wouldn’t post online. There could be many people open to p4p who dont want to advertise online even on a site like SA which isn’t an escort site.

Like Rick says these girls need to make their nut especially when it comes to the holiday and vacation season.

Rick you're calling me a 30 year old girl. Am I supposednto be offended by your misogyny or does it mean you want to pay me for sex?

You're no grown man. Grown men don't cheat on their wives

^ Icee, are you educating us again honey? It's always cute when a 20-something year old girl shares her deep wisdom with guys twice her age and with 50 times her experience. Keep up the good work kiddo. 😉

Sorry Icee, I copied and pasted the wrong one. Here you go...😉

No, I'm calling you a girl because you're actually a girl. Not just any girl either, but one filled with a great deal of resentment. It's obvious not only from the angry tonal quality of your posts when discussing hookers and Johns, but only a girl could fuck up a male pimp character so badly. Guess what honey - you're emotional anger does not justify abhorrent behavior like pulling family into these discussions. Shame on you.

So you're calling me a resentful girl coz I call you out on cheating on yoir wife and tye fact that you don't want your daughters being hoes or marrying men like you🤡🤡🤡🤡

No, I'm calling you a girl because you're actually a girl. Not just any girl either, but one filled with a great deal of resentment. It's obvious not only from the angry tonal quality of your posts when discussing hookers and Johns, but only a girl could fuck up a male pimp character so badly. Guess what honey - you're emotional anger does not justify abhorrent behavior like pulling family into these discussions. Shame on you.

Umm so a lot of dudes that spend on sugar babies and sex acts can still spend a bunch in the club without getting sex acts. They just have to really like the girl/ be in the mindset to not leave without dances/tipping/private rooms whatever.

It's like do extras seeking guys only ever spend on the extra mile? A few yeah, but most at least occasionally cross over and spend on low or no mileage. So there is some overlap here to where a wide variety of girls compete for the same dollars.

I understand in some cases there is zero overlap in spending and therefore no competition, but a lot of the time this just isn't true, lol!

Ok, now are SA sugar babies competing with stripper sugar babies? Not so much. The rates are MUCH higher for less as far as strippers who strictly get their sugar daddies from the club and not online. Online makes it easier and so there is more competition- rates can get much lower. But it is also a lot more options for girls so inclined with that.

"Ok, now are SA sugar babies competing with stripper sugar babies? Not so much. The rates are MUCH higher for less as far as strippers who strictly get their sugar daddies from the club and not online. Online makes it easier and so there is more competition- rates can get much lower. But it is also a lot more options for girls so inclined with that."

Blah, is this theory, or you know it to be true? In theory at least, I'd predict the opposite. A stripper who meets her SD (not an OTC customer, an SD) ITC has the following advantages: 1. often, he already has a crush on her from his trips to the club, vs low-investment meeting a random SB online, 2. she is a professional sexworker who at least has some base of comparison of what time with her is worth, vs the many many many amateurs online offering VERY low allowances.

You're fucking idiots thinking that hookers use only one platform to get tricks.

Look at vegas. Hookers working clubs also have online profiles. And walk the strip on slow nights.

Nevermind, I mis-interpreted what you were saying. I think we agree

So you're calling me a resentful girl coz I call you out on cheating on yoir wife and tye fact that you don't want your daughters being hoes or marrying men like you🤡🤡🤡🤡

Now hurry and repeat yourself rick

^ Icee, are you educating us again honey? It's always cute when a 20-something year old girl shares her deep wisdom with guys twice her age and with 50 times her experience. Keep up the good work kiddo. 😉

No Icee, I'm calling you a girl because you're actually a girl. Not just any girl either, but one filled with a great deal of resentment. It's obvious not only from the angry tonal quality of your posts when discussing hookers and Johns, but only a girl could fuck up a male pimp character so badly. Guess what honey - you're emotional anger does not justify abhorrent behavior like pulling family into these discussions. Shame on you.

“Grown men don't cheat on their wives”

False.

Men aged 18 to 80+ cheat. So do women.

https://ifstudies.org/blog/who-cheats-mo…

Unless you’re offering “what it take to be a man” advice now too?

Rick shame on you for being a lil boy cheating on your wife and setting the worst example for your daughters

Icee, time and again you pull my family into the discussion when you know nothing about my home situation. You're an angry child and you're out of line. Your personal baggage and overall emotional anger do not justify abhorrent behavior like pulling children into adult discussions.

Shame on you.

I know cuz I have had so many offers from the clubs and I'm not a perfect 10. I imagine the money offers would be lower online. I feel like most girls who have been in this industry, whether they engage in 1 part of it or not like to know what it is like for whatever we aren't doing. Like I was still curious about porn star pay and literally have zero desire to pursue that lol

Dick you cheating on your wife and coercing desperate hoes is out of line

^ icee your mom must’ve been a single mom doing tricks to survive, otherwise why are you so bent on a guy with means who can pay women for companionship? Jaded are you?

Icee, time and again you pull my family into the discussion when you know nothing about my home situation. You're an angry child and you're out of line. Your personal baggage and overall emotional anger do not justify abhorrent behavior like pulling children into adult discussions.

Shame on you.

The answer remains "Yes, SA is competing with strip clubs."

Because, ultimately, most guys (even the relatively wealthy ones) have a limited budget for their adult, in-person fun, and so that pie can only be cut in so many slices. Similarly, sexy women have historically had only some flavor of escorting or stripping available to sell their sex appeal in person. SA now offers a way for women to dip their toe in the water, set their own rates, and pick their SDs (and all while providing some degree of a rose-colored-glasses view that they're not *really* sex workers). So, of course it's competition.

And everything after that comes down to subjective personal preference as to how one person wants to sell something and another person wants to buy it. And I cautiously reject the idea that the thing for sale is always sex. I think the argument can be made that it's *often* sex by a great majority, but not always. Just as there are a subset of guys who go to strip clubs looking for sexy fun, but not sex, there are also dancers (and SBs) who will never offer FS but are happy to be paid only to provide companionship with a side of flirtation.

As to who is getting paid what and why, I don't care. There are guys in here who overpay wildly because they can afford to (or don't know any better) and don't want to haggle. There are also plenty of hot dancers and SBs who potentially under-charge because they want the right-now money more than the best money.

But, yeah, for guys who want adult fun that isn't digital or online, it's strip clubs, escorting, and SA (there's also massage parlors, but that's sort of an apple in the orange basket). We all pick our poison, so to speak. But, very few of us can afford to partake in all the poisons equally. So, yes, there's competition.

How can you tell that your new SA date is also a stripper?


She's more than 30 minutes late for your reservation.

"But, very few of us can afford to partake in all the poisons equally. "
^
I'm mostly in agreement with CMI's latest post. I'd tweak is that last piece a bit just be to clarify that affording it could be in reference to either the monetary or time cost.

And I'd say it goes both ways, as in there is not only a competition for buyers but also sellers. While there are certainly some buyers and sellers only interested in one or another, there is equally certainly sellers who do both. Neither the stripper or customer on a SA date aren't in the club at that moment.

CMI, mostly agreed although the women did still have an opportunity to find sugat daddies, set their own hours and rates without the SA website.

All those categories compete for girls and for men's entertainment dollars. They exist on different parts of the "legality" and "mileage" scales.

Sa and clubs compete for tye customers looking for hookers. That's it.

^ wait... looking for hookers to fuck or hookers to date? Asking for a friend... lulz

^^ Icee, are you educating us again honey? It's always cute when a 20-something year old girl shares her deep wisdom with guys twice her age and with 50 times her experience. Keep up the good work kiddo. 😉

Iceydodo is wise in the ways of spending excessively on a coke junkie stripper whore for 5 years - only to get dumped by her for a loser weed dealer. It was like going to college for a degree in being an RIL trick bitch PL.

Have you guys not put Icey on Ignore yet ? Or is it just too much fun to make fun of him/her ?

They won't ignore me coz their intent is to incessantly troll me

You have to be retarded to be so butt hurt by the obvious that the only competition is between hookers using sa and hookers using clubs. Not with clubs in general

@Warrior I do ignore Iceydodo, but as long as she keeps incessantly trolling I will probably start trolling her back.

@Iceydodo it's retarded of you to create the strawman that anyone is butthurt. It's as if you want to start a flame war. A bit trollish if you will. 🤭🤡😂😂😂

If you put him on ignore you just don't see his posts at all. It makes the forum a lot better to read. It also really makes it pop how much he takes every single thread off the rails -- literally, there's no thread with productive interesting discussion that he doesn't take sideways (you can tell by the number of people replying to him, even if you can't see his posts), which as a troll is obviously his goal -- he is supremely successful at it.

^^ Icee, are you educating us again honey? It's always cute when a 20-something year old girl shares her deep wisdom with guys twice her age and with 50 times her experience. Keep up the good work kiddo. 😉

Both Rick and Icee are saying the exact same thing over and over. Rick is just being more efficient about it.

Iceydodo will continue to post less and less over time. Not coincidentally she will continue to misspell and post short and barely coherent sentences. She is continuing to go deeper into addiction and getting blackout high and drunk for longer stints. Eventually, when she hits rock bottom, she will stop posting.

I post relevant info. Retards who have a problem handling reality derail the threads by having tantrums and trolling coz they're butt hurt.

In this thread said retards are going full sjg coz I refer to the women they pay to fuck them as hookers.

^^ Icee, are you educating us again honey? It's always cute when a 20-something year old girl shares her deep wisdom with guys twice her age and with 50 times her experience. Keep up the good work kiddo. 😉

Rick why do you go full on sjg when anyone says the women you pay to have sex with you are prostitutes??? Are you really sjg?

^^ Icee, are you educating us again honey? It's always cute when a 20-something year old girl shares her deep wisdom with guys twice her age and with 50 times her experience. Keep up the good work kiddo. 😉

6 Hours Ago
You have to be retarded to be so butt hurt by the obvious that the only competition is between hookers using sa and hookers using clubs. Not with clubs in general“

What is there to be butthurt about? No, obviously an escort or hooker will be competition for clubs in general... there are many people going to clubs who do want something more...
plus technically you can get lapdances from an escort or hooker... which means theure giving you more services. Whether its massage girls, SA, escorts, otc girls, any form of p4p has competition. There might be a subset of guys who only want otc from strippers, or who only want to use escort sites, or some who only want clubs with no extras... but there are also guys who simply look at the looks of the girl, the price and the services being offered

Butthurt Iceydodo creates the strawman of others being butthurt so she can be butthurt about others being butthurt. 🤭🤡😂😂😂

I literally hit it off with top dancer last night and said damn ok its her! But I can't help the draw of a college girl that is low key. I just met with a 20 y/o SA serious OCD dedicated college girl who knocked me back on my first meet. Yea...I would say that's competition