Is SA competing with strip clubs?
rickdugan
Verified and Certifiable Super-Reviewer
But I'm starting to view SA girls as more serious competition. I know that several guys on here have diverted some of their club spending to SA experiences in recent years and I have to admit that I have recently joined their ranks. Now yes one must wade through a lot of crap to get to the good stuff, like girls who also advertise on cheap escort sites, fake profiles, girls that don't look like their pics, etc. But once you have a couple of genuinely good SBs in the rotation it can be a very good thing.
I'm generally doing dinner dates and drinks with my SBs, followed of course with dessert at a local hotel. Overall the vibe is very similar to taking a hot and flirty dancer to dinner and then the hotel, or maybe even drinking with one ITC and then heading out for an OTC finish. I'm really starting to see the allure, lol.
Anyway, thoughts anyone?
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SA is most likely the biggest competition for the girls you prefer since those girls can rationalize what they are doing as if it isn't the same as prostitution the same way strippers who occasionally do OTC can. In the end they are willing to have sex for money, but they want a sense that they will only do it with a select few men and only for the right offer.
To me the girls that choose camming over dancing are the ones that are more likely to have given air dances if they worked a club. They don't mind strangers looking at them while they are naked but don't want strangers touching them.
The girls that do traditional escort sites or porn are more transactional typically. They are like the dancers that go straight for the "wanna dance?" approach instead of building a connection first.
The good news is there is still a lot of crossover between all these groups and a lot of women do at least two or more of those options. After all, it is important to have multiple revenue streams in this economy.
Of course, it is competition. Is it a different experience than a strip club ? Yes it is. But it still keeps guys away. I"m one of those. I joined SA about 4 years ago. My strip clubbing has gone down 80% since then. If fact, over the past two years almost all of my strip club visits are WITH a sugar baby.
I only have so much time to monger and only so much semen in my body. I have learned the system on SA so I can find dates without all that much effort. And I have more pussy to poke than I have time to poke it. I'm actually culling the herd now and cutting back on some girls. I had a date for tonight that I just made up some lie so I could get out of it. It's nice to be on the other side of that occurrence .
Alright honey. It's not like most of the guys on here have dealt with thousands of dancers over decades or anything. You just keep on educating us about how many of them are hookers and how many of us go looking for that. 😉
Exactly and you're not the only one on here. Now I find myself spreading it out a lot more as well. Now sure other forms of adult entertainment can also divert dollars, but I don't see anyone else on here talking about any other forms of adult entertainment that diverts them away from clubs like SA does.
I agree that the experience is different, but it ultimately provides a lot of the same benefits. Namely sexy flirty time with a beautiful young woman followed by a great finish. I don't think that it will ever be a complete substitute for me, but it is definitely eating into my club spending.
Which is why SA is also (and possibly to a greater degree) competition to escorts. Most of the better looking and better reviewed escorts require that a new customer give up a fair amount of personal information to protect themselves against law enforcement stings, and that discourages a fair number of guys. As far as I know, there have been no LE stings targeting SA (at least not yet), so the women on that platform aren't requiring that information.
Most aren't looking for hookers and most definitely aren't looking to cheat on their wives.
Hooker sites are something else. They're not jn competition. You tricks aren't the norm when it comes to SC patrons
Is it taking dancers away from dancing? Probably.
@muddy you can set a filter on SA to search certain ages and body types you know? If you filter for only under 30 and slim or athletic. And white. I'd say it's MUCH higher appeal rate than 3%. If I'm hitting a new city, I'll shotgun out multiple messages and and see what sticks. Chat up those who respond and see who has potential.
I will say my MOA on SA is probably less picky than I am in the clubs. In clubs, I am always drawn to the youngest athletic hard bodies. I've had several of those on SA, but I've found for an actual night out and then in.... the majority of the sweet spot is high 20s low 30s.
Ya wrote, and I quote;
“I’m rotating 12 sb’s right now off of SA and am to busy and happy to go in to the lane clubs in swfl.”
Pics and Vids or it didn’t happen.
:D
Good Times, Good Times.
I still don't understand SA tho. I'm not even judging what the ladies do, just the pricing is way too low to be doing all that.
As a long time veteran here’s what I see sa vs clubs. In clubs dancers are in control of who they select to entertain. They’re also in the club for an extended time frame often can’t leave. Values for services get pushed up. Sa is a quick hit and then they can go on about the day and/or attend to their kid. It’s a higher return on a shorter timeframe.
@ muddy you’re correct. It’s a bell curve; there’s been 5 - 6 no shows, a few that I wasn’t interested in after meeting as pics weren’t accurate then the majority have been great and a few that are absolutely rockstars. I have one that comes to visit on her lunch hour as her work is very close to me. I have another who comes to me on her way to the gym at 6:30 in the am. I’m enjoying sa immensely.
@3131 agreed. Filters are set, message is just copied and pasted, then sit back and see who responds. It can’t get any easier. Then after initial meets it’s just pick and choose. I will say this the single mothers are generally faster to get in bed. But the early 20’s are also hot and more open to whatever I like. I asked one aren’t you worried I could be a bad guy and her reply was something about sharing her location with a friend so wasn’t worried about her safety.
Initially I went out to a few clubs near me but sa is much easier and overall less expensive when I put a value on my time.
Seems most of the boys posted something phenomenally cheap like $200-$400 a meet and most of the girls posted significantly higher but still believable numbers. A few of them posted some shit that seemed borderline ludicrous but idk it could be legit lmfao. I'm just wondering why most dudes were posting $200-$400 a meet which is super low for expecting sex and most chicks were saying more like $600-$1000 + a meet
I assume that the truth is somewhere in the middle. Seems like men are motivated to lower their numbers and women would raise theirs in this situation.
For the middle-income guy who just buys two or three lap dances, like me, SA is no competition at all. I visited a pretty little Mexican dancer I've known for a couple years at a nearby strip club tonight. As soon as she spotted me, she headed for me and then started hugging me. After our lap dances, rather than walking off, she started telling me about how she was unhappy because of her pet dog passing away which then turned into a conversation about pets in general. She is very affectionate with and spends a lot of time with some old guy who just comes in once a month and buys a couple of lap dances. I have other regulars like that too. With the limited amount of money that I have to spend and girls like this at the strip club, SA isn't going to pull me away.
Nationwide over the past 4 + years I've found the sweet spot is 4 - 6. I'd say with inflation the past year there are fewer 400s available. Some trends toward requests for 7, but I've rarely exceeded 6.
Whodey, exactly this. Women have a rather amazing ability to rationalize almost anything under the right circumstances. Indeed it is how I've converted a lot of hesitant girls over the years - build some rapport, treat them with dignity and wait until the right moment comes along. The genius of SA is that those rationalization tools are already baked right into the system.
I saw this play out just last night. Out of the blue, my SB, as she's putting her clothes back on after one heck of a good lay, let me know that she isn't a prostitute because she values herself more. I of course wisely agreed, right before discreetly laying the money down on a table. I guess the fact that we go to dinner and drinks first makes it more of a date than a paid sexual transaction. I of course never mentioned that what I pay her is my normal outer range for stripper OTC. 😉
But to answer Rick's primary question the time and $ I spent were $ not spent on strippers at or from the club. It also keeps a girl who may be on the fence about being seen in public as a stripper to decide to stay more private on SA.
It seems like the clubs are picking up in options/choices, lately.
Maybe 2 or 3 that were substantially heavier.
Had a couple that actually surprised me showing up. Like I was expecting a 7 ad this was 8 or 9 range
I like to get a little back and forth chat via text. Any red flags like problems with their car or phone, headaches, or drug problems are usually a no for me.
Use of whatsapp is still a zero percent chance of success for me to date. I might stop even communicating there. I refuse to download kik.
Snap has been 50/50
The younger girls like it.
Same here actually. I've met a handful now and only one looked very different. But I am also very careful in reviewing the pics and screening out the pros. There are some girls that will post 8-10 pics and most look great, but then you'll see the one she tries to slip in there - probably the most recent - in which she looks much larger or older than in her other pics.
Some of the other comments are correct in that you’re more likely to find college students, waitresses, retail workers etc on SA. Some of the USASG guys just go for waitresses or go to college bars.
The above is how you want things to be Icee, not the actual reality of things.
“Hookers working jn clubs advertise on social media and other sites for more tricks. That doesn't impact clubs“
???
Blah what do you consider cheap and what rates did you see on sa that were low? $400 is not cheap, in $600+ youre in famous playboy model and pornstar territory. the guys spending $1000 on otc maybe aren’t aware of the options available or are too scared to meet SA or escort girls
The 1000 requests are also becoming more frequent. These used to be only the mid 20s college cheerleaders, true 9 or 10s, or pork star lookers. I'm getting 1k quotes from 34 year old moms sometimes. Attractive women, but these would a been 5 or 600 a few years ago.
WTF???? Once again I am amazed at the next level mongering. I can't imagine having the time or budgetary leeway from Mrs. C for this level. Impressed!
@Rick:
WRT the original question, at my level the two are very different.
SA seems to be for guys with a sizeable and regular SW budget, as well as a lot of unsupervised free time on their hands.
Clubs on the other hand are for guys who want to get on-tap SWs at a lower price point, at a narrow and convenient window of time. Also, coincidentally for guys who want to make it rain on their bachelor party or whatever. And silly men who drop $1000 on air dances just 'cause. Lulz.
The two are technically both SW sources, but that's like saying that streetwalkers are competing with TNA girls... technically sure they are getting dollars and semen, but they're kind of different beasts, again at my level.
For the OP's purposes I can see the competition a bit more clearly: OTC vs SA girls probably are adjacent if not overlapping.
I'm getting away from P4P in general. Just feels like "been there done that." Strip club extras prices are still affordable, just more than I feel is worth it. $400 for 15 minutes of FS just isn't worth it. But curious about SA since I hear so much about it.
I avoid really new profiles in general. Those are most often the scammers that keep making new ones.
I also avoid profiles with limited description.
If a profile goes dead after you've started texting, but before your meet..... also a bad sign. She got reported for something or else blocked you.
Yes, and it depends on what the customers are looking for who'll be open to it. I don't do SA myself but understand the appeal.
Olivia fox, famous playboy model in houston charges just $700 an hour. You could fly there, not get a hotel, meet her, fly back for maybe $1100 or less.
Maybe it is somewhere in the middle. But keep in mind that strippers have a very different view of money than most civilian girls. For a girl who takes care of animals or works retail for a living (by way of two examples), $400 for a couple of hours out is a damned nice piece of side money.
But with that said, there is definitely variance in price ranges and experiences. The girls offering it up for $200 are usually those that could be found on places like STG and you definitely get what you pay for. There are also other types of quick strike pros who are doing volume but find SA to be a better selling spot than escort sites.
The girls who don't do this for a living, OTOH, tend to want more. They are often the same ones who want more than just a quick strike. It's all part of convincing themselves that they are not prostitutes, once again the genius of SA. They also tend to use different terminology, like "allowance" instead of "donation", even when it's ppm. These are the ones I gravitate to and when I do dinner, drinks and then the finish, it is definitely replacing a club night for me.
Escort site with fat ugly desperate women
I am also curious why 34 yr old single moms would expect $1000? Like are these Victoria's Secret model or Kim Kardashian level women? What do they look like?
I still can't understand how single moms think they are hot shit or in demand even slightly, but I was raised in a different culture.
But not quite as desperate as the men that use that site to hook up with them.
Hot is hot. Kids or no kids. The dancer I want to be my next fav has two and looks like she has zero. I was shocked when she talked about her kids. She's not in her 30's, but if she keeps herself up (like my ATF did) then she'll still be hot when the next decade comes around.
I rarely see single moms that don't look like they ever had kids. Most moms I see who kept themselves up are married.
Anyways I am biased since I believe these single never married non-rich moms are bottom class societal trash.
Maybe I'm naive, but I believe extras girls are in the minority. I go for sensual, but not sexual. I like to be entertained, titillated, flattered, and fondled, but rarely ever consider more. I just want to be with sexy, naked, flirtatious women and beer.
So no, I still think there is a big difference been openly P4P sites like SA and strip clubs.
The challenges for these girls are caring for themselves properly during pregnancy and after they give birth. If a girl is in good health, takes decent care of herself during pregnancy and works to get back in shape once the baby is born, there's a good chance you'd never know that she has a kid. If anything, pregnancy makes some girls hotter by filling in their boobs and sometimes even their hips a bit more.
What sucks is when a girl has to have a C-section. At best she'll have a scar that she always feels like she has to hide. But when they don't go well, I've seen them really fuck up some girls' tummy areas forever.
It doesn't matter what you made yesterday or last month if you're burning through your cash as fast as you earn it. IME most girls who eventually agree to OTC have others relying upon them, whether it's kids, useless parents or an equally useless SO. I've known plenty who had both the kids and a useless SO and a few who had the damned trifecta.
With so many people on their tits, they aren't well positioned to ride out the downswings that often happen during certain times of year or when the clubs slow down for other reasons (like the economy). When these downswings occur, IME a lot more girls become suddenly open to an OTC adventure.
Some of them also don't plan well for extraordinary expenses, like holidays, back-to-school shopping and birthdays. For these girls, even if they make their normal nut, it might not be as much as they need. Early August and late December are my two favorite times of the year in the clubs, lol.
Anyway, it is what it is. Feel free to circle back if there is anything else that I can explain. 😉
@wldtatas I'm usually hanging out for drinks or dinner, then the hotel. Total time with me is usually 2 to 4 hours. I've had half a dozen double pops, but those were rarities when she just stays around and chills long enough for me to get horny again. I've never asked for it, it just happened. 95% of the time either she or I get dressed immediately and that's a good clue that it's over.
Maybe slow shifts have something to do with it. Watching the local club instagram posts it seems like there are times when no PLs are coming in, and $500 probably looks better than $0.
Right! If a woman's goal is to make the best money as a FS sex worker, she's usually better off escorting. Since she's on SA and not escorting, the wrong part of the assumption is obvious :)
I'm spending much more on SA than the SC these days also. Although a good part of that is driven by the fact that there are no dayshifts in SF anymore. I would start spending more at the SCs again if that changes, but I'm not entirely sure the change isn't permanent.
A strip club experience is still fun to grab a beer and talk with a big group of women, but the LD experience seems silly when you can do more for the same price with the same quality girl
But that's not the goal of many SA girls or even some dancers who see some guys OTC. They don't view themselves as prostitutes. Heck a fair % of the SA girls have vanilla day jobs. They would never dream of putting themselves out on public escort sites, where any random dude can contact them sight unseen and try to meet up with them.
Never underestimate the ability of women to rationalize what they would otherwise consider unacceptable. Again, that's the genius of SA. Sometimes when I'm converting a no to a yes in the club I have to help her along by providing her with some rationalizations to lean on when crossing the Rubicon. SA has these rationalizations already baked into the process.
I don't know if I'm using it wrong, or if it's vastly different from area to area, but my experience was just remarkably poor.
The same could be said for many of the men who meet dancers OTC. "She's not a prostitute, so I'm not a John."
To be fair, it's not always *just* rationalization, on either side. As you alluded, there are some very real risks to actually advertising as an escort, and for the men, in meeting one. I've met a number of dancers who absolutely acknowledge what they're doing (maybe not so much on SA; I have less experience there), and use their club time for much the same purpose *we* do, i.e. to size someone up before agreeing to meet up elsewhere.
That's not to say that there isn't a lot of rationalization going on for both the men and the women, but it's not the *whole* story.
Agreed that these things come in a variety of flavors and that I'm oversimplifying a bit. I tend to do my fishing with hotter ITC non-extras girls, which definitely colors my perceptions a bit. There is almost always a time ramp to get from no to yes with them. But I've also met plenty of girls over the years who were quite obviously in the clubs shopping for outside regulars, some tipping their hands early in the process and others more subtly.
SA is similarly a mixed bag in some respects. There are plenty of pros on there, which take some time and effort to weed through. There are also plenty of scammers, which I've become pretty good at weeding through quickly as there are a lot of telltale signs that give them away.
The girls that I seek on SA are the ones who, like my favorite stripper partners, are using this as supplemental income. Now that's not to say that I'm the only guy they're seeing, but with full time jobs (where they aren't fucking and sucking) and kids at home when they're not working, they only have so many opportunities to go out on dates. Like with my favorite OTC strippers, the experiences are far more natural and the girls involved tend to do a lot more rationalizing to make it OK.
You're no grown man. Grown men don't cheat on their wives
No, I'm calling you a girl because you're actually a girl. Not just any girl either, but one filled with a great deal of resentment. It's obvious not only from the angry tonal quality of your posts when discussing hookers and Johns, but only a girl could fuck up a male pimp character so badly. Guess what honey - you're emotional anger does not justify abhorrent behavior like pulling family into these discussions. Shame on you.
I understand in some cases there is zero overlap in spending and therefore no competition, but a lot of the time this just isn't true, lol!
Ok, now are SA sugar babies competing with stripper sugar babies? Not so much. The rates are MUCH higher for less as far as strippers who strictly get their sugar daddies from the club and not online. Online makes it easier and so there is more competition- rates can get much lower. But it is also a lot more options for girls so inclined with that.
Blah, is this theory, or you know it to be true? In theory at least, I'd predict the opposite. A stripper who meets her SD (not an OTC customer, an SD) ITC has the following advantages: 1. often, he already has a crush on her from his trips to the club, vs low-investment meeting a random SB online, 2. she is a professional sexworker who at least has some base of comparison of what time with her is worth, vs the many many many amateurs online offering VERY low allowances.
Look at vegas. Hookers working clubs also have online profiles. And walk the strip on slow nights.
Now hurry and repeat yourself rick
False.
Men aged 18 to 80+ cheat. So do women.
https://ifstudies.org/blog/who-cheats-mo…
Unless you’re offering “what it take to be a man” advice now too?
Shame on you.
Shame on you.
Because, ultimately, most guys (even the relatively wealthy ones) have a limited budget for their adult, in-person fun, and so that pie can only be cut in so many slices. Similarly, sexy women have historically had only some flavor of escorting or stripping available to sell their sex appeal in person. SA now offers a way for women to dip their toe in the water, set their own rates, and pick their SDs (and all while providing some degree of a rose-colored-glasses view that they're not *really* sex workers). So, of course it's competition.
And everything after that comes down to subjective personal preference as to how one person wants to sell something and another person wants to buy it. And I cautiously reject the idea that the thing for sale is always sex. I think the argument can be made that it's *often* sex by a great majority, but not always. Just as there are a subset of guys who go to strip clubs looking for sexy fun, but not sex, there are also dancers (and SBs) who will never offer FS but are happy to be paid only to provide companionship with a side of flirtation.
As to who is getting paid what and why, I don't care. There are guys in here who overpay wildly because they can afford to (or don't know any better) and don't want to haggle. There are also plenty of hot dancers and SBs who potentially under-charge because they want the right-now money more than the best money.
But, yeah, for guys who want adult fun that isn't digital or online, it's strip clubs, escorting, and SA (there's also massage parlors, but that's sort of an apple in the orange basket). We all pick our poison, so to speak. But, very few of us can afford to partake in all the poisons equally. So, yes, there's competition.
How can you tell that your new SA date is also a stripper?
She's more than 30 minutes late for your reservation.
^
I'm mostly in agreement with CMI's latest post. I'd tweak is that last piece a bit just be to clarify that affording it could be in reference to either the monetary or time cost.
And I'd say it goes both ways, as in there is not only a competition for buyers but also sellers. While there are certainly some buyers and sellers only interested in one or another, there is equally certainly sellers who do both. Neither the stripper or customer on a SA date aren't in the club at that moment.
@Iceydodo it's retarded of you to create the strawman that anyone is butthurt. It's as if you want to start a flame war. A bit trollish if you will. 🤭🤡😂😂😂
In this thread said retards are going full sjg coz I refer to the women they pay to fuck them as hookers.
6 Hours Ago
You have to be retarded to be so butt hurt by the obvious that the only competition is between hookers using sa and hookers using clubs. Not with clubs in general“
What is there to be butthurt about? No, obviously an escort or hooker will be competition for clubs in general... there are many people going to clubs who do want something more...
plus technically you can get lapdances from an escort or hooker... which means theure giving you more services. Whether its massage girls, SA, escorts, otc girls, any form of p4p has competition. There might be a subset of guys who only want otc from strippers, or who only want to use escort sites, or some who only want clubs with no extras... but there are also guys who simply look at the looks of the girl, the price and the services being offered