Living paycheck to paycheck
mark94
Arizona
According to a study from the financial services company, the Lending Club:
“Just over 47% of Americans earning more than $100,000 were living paycheck to paycheck as of November, spiking 4% from October.
Overall, nearly 63% of Americans lived paycheck to paycheck in November, jumping from just over 60% in October, approaching the yearly high of nearly 64.5% set in March. Nearly 66% of those who earned between $50,000 and $100,000 were living paycheck-to-paycheck last month, compared to 76% of those who earned less than $50,000.”
As a result, inflation has knocked the hell out of most people, resulting in huge increases in credit card debt. Most people have no financial cushion to protect them from economic ups and downs.
“Just over 47% of Americans earning more than $100,000 were living paycheck to paycheck as of November, spiking 4% from October.
Overall, nearly 63% of Americans lived paycheck to paycheck in November, jumping from just over 60% in October, approaching the yearly high of nearly 64.5% set in March. Nearly 66% of those who earned between $50,000 and $100,000 were living paycheck-to-paycheck last month, compared to 76% of those who earned less than $50,000.”
As a result, inflation has knocked the hell out of most people, resulting in huge increases in credit card debt. Most people have no financial cushion to protect them from economic ups and downs.
94 comments
Prices are too out of control. Inflation like this isn't sustainable. By next year rents will be higher than most wages.
The medical cartel and big pharma are run for the benefit of the people who work in it and not the average person. This is true throughout the economy. I work for the military-industrial complex, the main purpose of which is to enrich the people who work for it. This requires that we exaggerate foreign threats in order to justify continuation of that spending. You also have the higher education complex, which sucks up increasing amounts of money while turning out graduates who can't get a job. You have the big Wall Street banks, which get bailed out when they get in trouble. You have big tech, which has joined into an alliance with the government to engage in censorship. I can go on, but you get the idea. The commonality is that all these industries increase their wealth through political connections. They use these connections to eliminate potential competition, get subsidized or bailed out when needed, get favorable tax or regulatory treatment and so on.
Meanwhile, average people become poorer and live shorter lives. This will lead to the political rise of populist outsiders, either on the left or right, since the political establishments of both parties support the current system.
This suggests to me that false expectations about spending and poor money management are as consequential as income levels.
Slavery by any other name “wage work” is still slavery.
the USA large economic advantage is deeply tainted by how it was obtained (stolen) and accumulated over the course of one historical process (Colonialism and Imperialism) that has devastated the societies and cultures of four continents...
“Poverty is not an accident. Like slavery and apartheid, it is man-made and can be removed by the actions of human beings.
Overcoming poverty is not a gesture of charity, it is an act of justice.”
~ Nelson Mandela
The UNDENIABLE REALITY is that:
Most of our past and current “western” Economic Systems create Poverty, Greed, Violence, Disease, and Environmental Destruction
"There is enough in the world for everyone's need,
but not enough for everyone's greed."
~ Frank Buchman aka (Franklin Nathaniel Daniel Buchman)
~ Decorated by the French and German governments for his contributions to Franco-German reconciliation after World War II.
~ Born June 4, 1878 Pennsburg, Pennsylvania
~ Died August 7, 1961 Freudenstadt, West Germany
There are many folks who get in debt during college. This is not only student loans, but they get credit cards and make minimum payments, and run up a big tab. That’s foolish, and it’s not disciplined. That stuff leads to an adult who can’t understand how to allocate their earnings towards basic monthly bill payment. Sadly, those folks never think about opening a 401k or IRA - then they reach their 40’s and 50’s with no retirement savings (and no pension).
In my view, financial literacy is a good skill and it should be part of the basic high school curriculum. It might start off with a simple understanding of a paycheck - to show what a salary becomes after taxes. They can also explain credit and credit cards - and the costs of making those frivolous purchases. Investments and the benefits of 401k accounts could be very helpful too.
FTFY, YOU ARE WELCOME! @skibum609
In the USA today people have become psychologically conditioned to accept the current state of corruption and corporate greed.
Decent American workers since the beginning have fought and died for the rights of the working class to have a better standard of living.
For a fair days wage for a fair days work.
The media now is just propaganda about the “evils of workers” and the “unfortunate wealthy owners” having to pay fair wages and follow the safety and environmental rules
We are back to having unsafe working conditions, dumping toxic waste all over the world and having people work 70-80 hours a week.
Slavery by any other name “Wage Work” is still Slavery.
The USA society now is like in concentration camps, the selection process, work until you drop dead, stooges for the authorities, the guards and the 1%.
People are being kept under control by the made up dramas and conflicts to keep their attention away from the lost of civil liberties and a decent fair standard of living for the people.
While the coffers and bank accounts of the top 1% become more overfilled as the rest of society is sacrificing everything for nothing.
THE UNDENIABLE REALITY IS THAT:
“It is the sufferings of the many which pay for the luxuries of the few.”
~ Greta Tintin Eleonora Ernman Thunberg
~ Born: 3rd January 2003 Stockholm, Sweden
~ Occupation: Student, environmental activist
Awards:
~ Fritt Ord Award (2019)
~ Rachel Carson Prize (2019)
~ Ambassador of Conscience Award (2019)
~ Right Livelihood Award (2019)
~ International Children's Peace Prize (2019)
~ Time Person of the Year (2019)
~ Gulbenkian Prize for Humanity (2020)
Don’t know what their lifestyle was like that but that’s crazy
In all honesty, CJ Kent is too much involved in some bizarre conspiracy to understand the obvious truth regarding Americans.
The fact is most Americans don’t want to have a budget. They have a sense of entitlement and a desire to consume beyond their means.
When one has an income of $100,000 they have a decent income to live nicely in most parts of the country. They simply must make an effort to not spend beyond their means. This has nothing to do with government.
What percent of that 47% have Strip Clb/OTC spending? Should be less than 5%. Fun goes on. 🤣🤣
If we want be to make the assumption that every person starts at zero and only concerned with themselves, then it's easy to make an argument that people are lazy, idiots, or whatever. And there are many, many cases of one household or family member doing relatively well while the rest of it is in the dumps. But there are just as many cases (hopefully more) of people helping out their family even if it means they achieve their personal goals a little later.
Some people are just bad with money or try to buy things they can't afford with money they don't have. But there's probably more nuance here than this platform affords.
Skicuck I hope you enjoy your wife's union insurance and pension as much as other men enjoy her pussy
Soaring markets helped the richest 1% gain $6.5 trillion in wealth last year, according to the Fed
https://www.cnbc.com/2022/04/01/richest-…
These are the people the left calls the 1%, implying this money was handed to them, or they mysteriously stole it from those “ less fortunate”. The left believes this money should be taken by the government to be distributed to people claiming to be victims.
Q: Do you think/believe that a person working 8 to 12 hours a day will honestly earn enough to become a millionaire?
A: Not mathematically possible, it does not add up, is just common sense.
“Le secret des grandes fortunes sans cause apparente est un crime oublié, parce qu'il a été proprement fait.”
“The secret of a great success for which you are at a loss to account is a crime that has never been found out, because it was properly executed.”
Often quoted as ‘Behind every great fortune lies a great crime’
~ Le Père Goriot (1835)
~ SanchoRG, Texas
~ Joined Aug, 2017
Here’s the math. Someone who invests $500 every month, earning 10% per year ( the historical stock return ), will have over $1M after 30 years.
This would be the case for someone making $60,000 per year and consistently putting 10% into their 401k from the age of 20 to 50. If they did this from 20 to 65, they’d have over $3M.
Not everyone has the discipline to do this. The people who do are called millionaires. Some of them are plumbers,or accountants, or any other average American.
Personally speaking, I had a lot of resistance to this. I was making $8.50/hr in high school and thought there is no way I could save this much. When I was doing summer work in college, it seemed like it was possible, but still really hard. My starting salary out of college was $60k and while a good sized chunk of my take home, it was still doable. I had to choose between this and a car. As I was/still am a consultant, it was easy to not have a car.
Even living in Chicago and not working at all during the Obama recession, I still am slightly living ahead of schedule.
Let’s say you graduate college at 21 and have a good enough job that you find someone willing to let you finance a $50,000 car over 5 years. But, instead, you buy a $10,000 used Honda and drive it for 5 years. Plus, you take all the money you would have used for payments and contribute aggressively to a 401k.
The month you invested, instead of car payments for that one car, would be worth over $1M at retirement.
100k in San Francisco or Los Angeles isn't the same as 100k in Mississippi or Arkansas
What remarkable insights
This is a lie. We all respect those who have worked long, stressful hours for decades, to eventually save up enough to become a millionaire. However, these people are not representative of the top 1%. The vast chunk of the top 1% are corporate and Wall Street types who are siphoning off trillions from the hard work of the 99% below them, investing that money to acquire an even greater piece of the economic pie, or parking it in stocks with large dividend payouts and buybacks to receive further trillions in essentially free money.
Some of the richest people acknowledge this and advocate for policies that distribute wealth more equitably. Others do not, and they love people who fight to protect them (knowingly or unwittingly) with classic right wing arguments like "Don't punish hard working people" and "Don't reward lazy people".
“Don’t reward lazy people”
But the simple fact is today’s modern governments do.
Public welfare is now the single largest category of expenditure in state and local budgets.
More than on schools, highways and roads, and law enforcement
Examine your household energy habits. Where do you set your thermostat? How many lights do you use? How long and how hot are your showers? are TVs left on for background noise and company?
These may come across as common sense questions, but I know most people don't do the hard work of examining their budgets. I know so many people who would rather be paycheck-to-paycheck than make a few small sacrifices to alleviate that stress and start saving up for luxury items and emergencies. They just plan to put the Hawaiian vacation or the emergency surgery on their credit card and make minimum payments.
https://www.marketwatch.com/picks/im-pay…
"While having a high income is great, there’s a concept called Parkinson’s Law, which essentially states that your spending will always rise to meet your income no matter how high that income rises,"
I'll admit my lifestyle has expanded with my income--I wanted to cut down on my Uber Eats. It's addictive to be able to say "I want Indian, or sushi, or Korean (or something else I don't know how to cook) today" and two minutes of clicking plus a 45 minute wait and it appears at my door.
Everyone can afford a few luxuries, but not luxury everything. There was a whole other thread about this. I drive a 10-year-old car that I plan to run into the ground. I pay a $3,000 mortgage rather than the $1,000 rent I paid five years ago with roommates, but there's no room to build in my city so housing prices keep increasing. If anything I regret not buying a year before. Most of my clothing is pretty cheap, too.
Take a look at your finances. My credit card statement automatically groups purchases by food, gas, etc. I rarely use greenbacks for anything other than clubbing, so my bank itemizes that well, too. Take a good hard look, and you can see where you can really save and what's just nibbling at the margins. You might be surprised.
A luxurious apartment is not a necessity, you’ve labelled all kinds of odd things as necessities, earlier you were saying meal delivery services are essential
??
“The system is rigged against our citizens”
~ Donald J Trump
Trump has publicly admitted he has used the system to benefit himself and his accomplices, and brags about not paying taxes: 'That makes me smart'…
The USA capitalist/imperialist system is, and has been since it’s birth, producing excessive inequality all over the world.
“To him that hath, more shall be given; and from him that hath not, the little that he hath shall be taken away. The rich have become richer, and the poor have become poorer; and the vessel of the State is driven between the Scylla and Charybdis of anarchy and despotism."
~ Percy Bysshe Shelley
~ Born 4 August 1792 Field Place, Warnham, West Sussex, England
~ Died 8 July 1822 (aged 29) Gulf of La Spezia, Kingdom of Sardinia (now Italy)
“The country is governed for the richest, for the corporations, the bankers, the land speculators, and for the exploiters of labor.
The majority of mankind are working people.
So long as their fair demands — the ownership and control of their livelihoods — are set at naught, we can have neither men’s rights nor women’s rights.
The majority of mankind is ground down by industrial oppression in order that the small remnant may live in ease.”
~ Helen Adams Keller
~ Born June 27, 1880 Tuscumbia, Alabama, USA
~ Died June 1, 1968 Easton, Connecticut, USA
Sounds to me you would prefer a “Logan’s Run” type Utopia. And we know how well that works out - well, except for getting to see Jenny Agutter naked
~ Charles Darwin, Voyage of the Beagle
~ Mother Jones
~ Jerry Ash, Hellraiser—Mother Jones: An Historical Novel
Someone making $50,000 to $75,000 finds it nearly impossible to provide for a family in those cities. However, in most places in the US, that’s enough to live comfortably.
“The authors compare the behaviour of those they call "UAWs" (Under Accumulators of Wealth) and those who are "PAWs" (Prodigious Accumulators of Wealth). Their findings, that millionaires are disproportionately clustered in middle-class and blue-collar neighborhoods and not in more affluent or white-collar communities, came as a surprise to the authors who anticipated the contrary. Stanley and Danko's book explains why, noting that high-income white-collar professionals are more likely to devote their income to luxury goods or status items, thus neglecting savings and investments.”
For us, living below our means seems natural.
Younger people grew up in an environment where they were bombarded with media telling them the key to happiness was living a celebrity lifestyle. Driving the right cars. Exotic vacations. Designer clothes. All the tech.
For younger people, living below your means is a bizarre concept.
America’s institutions, the government, education, and culture, all contribute or reinforce, to this day, the oppression of marginalized social groups of poor people of every color and nationality while protecting dominant social groups of mainly rich white elites and their criminal allies of every color and nationality.
UNDENIABLE…
Undeniable
Those on the left believe most people ( other than themselves, of course ) are weak, incompetent, bigoted, and uneducated. These great unwashed require the government to keep them in line and make decisions for them.
And, of course, anyone on the right who becomes successful must have cheated, stolen, or had the money handed to them.
Maybe if you're single, childless and have the flexibility to choose where you live. But otherwise that's a broad statement that is far from universally true.
For starters, a lot of people who make over 100k have to live in expensive areas near their jobsites. These areas also tend to have higher state taxes in additional to the federal nut. When you have 20-25% of your income being skimmed off the top between federal and state taxes and then have to shell out at least another 30k a year for a decent place to live (and often more), suddenly $100k doesn't seem like a heck of a lot. That leaves about 4k per month to cover everything else, including transportation expenses, student loans, food, electric and other utilities, local taxes on your car (called an excise tax in the northern states), out-of-pocket medical/dental expenses, car repairs, etc., etc.
Sure it's definitely doable, but one misstep with a large unexpected bill that puts you in debt (like a big car repair) and you get into a hole that's hard to dig out of. Tbh I'd rather make $60k living in a cheaper inland area in Florida than $100k living anywhere near Boston, NYC or pretty much anywhere in CA. It's not even close. Everything is so much cheaper, including housing (a fraction), income taxes (none), annual car tax (none), electricity (half the cost or even less), no annual inspection sticker bullshit with mechanics holding older car owners up for repairs...I could go on.
Then there are the kiddos. Again doable if you can find a cheap enough area, but there's a lot they aren't going to have. You won't be able to live in an area with the best public schools because that always drives property values up a lot. You also won't be able to afford many of the more expensive kids activities, at least if they become any good at something. Just for one of my kids I was spending north of $10k per year for several years on lesson fees and competition costs (including competition fees and travel expenses). I have 3 kids and this child wasn't the only one in activities - 'nuff said.
I could go on. 100k just isn't nearly what it used to be in a lot of places.
For us, living below our means seems natural. “
Interesting. When you were talking about people in their 60s and 70s living below their means, do you mean in their private life?
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/average-r…
Or in the public life?
https://www.usdebtclock.org/
But yeah, lots of young people are really obsessed with driving a prestigious car.
https://tuscl.net/discussion.php?id=8159…
But forget about 100k look at what most people make. Say 35k. Life is getting unlivable
I think NiceSpice is correct about folks wanting prestigious cars. Although, in my area folks don’t blink an eye when they see a nice Mercedes or a BMW. I believe owning an expensive car - before owning a home, is a mistake. In my view, a person should own an inexpensive car and they should seek to buy the nicest house (in a good community). That way you spend less on a depreciable vehicle - and you have more invested in an appreciable home.,
I think folks come out of college with student loans, and then add to their debt with an expensive car purchase. They struggle to cover the cost of car payments, and they struggle more when they realize the service costs of an expensive car. The student loan payments add to their financial troubles, and they can barely make rent. This kills any ability to save money. When these folks finally get solvent enough to save, they don’t have that long of a time horizon, and they end up having to gamble on stock purchases, and they can easily get hurt and lose a lot.
Here's the facts from
State Single Couple Family of four
U.S. average $26,093 – $78,280 $36,902 – $110,705 $52,187 – $156,560
Of course there are outliers and some folks will have circumstances different from the majority, But overall if you earn 100K you can pretty much count on living a middle class lifestyle if you choose to
“The UNDENIABLE truth, in America, working men and women do not “earn” a fair share of the wealth they produce workers don't get what they deserve, even when they work hard, just like the slaves…
Because according to Trump himself; “The system is rigged against our citizens””
FTFY, YOU ARE WELCOME!
Typical
LULZ
— President Franklin D. Roosevelt, 1933
Minimum wage legislation emerged at the end of the nineteenth century from the desire to end sweated labor which had developed in the wake of industrialization, however the issue of the exploitation of Americans by Americans continues continues to this day in one form or another.
"There is enough in the world for everyone's need,
but not enough for everyone's greed."
What a dope Maybe you should shut up seeing as you have nothing to say yourself.
"When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser”
~ Socrates
:D
One's own employees ought to be one's own best customers.”
~ Henry Ford, 1926
You couldn't be more wrong 25. The median household income in most of the suburbs of Boston and NYC is well north of 100k. It would be even higher if you factored in government healthcare subsidies. In the cities themselves it is a little lower, but would be much higher if you factored in the value of government subsidized housing, federal and state health insurance subsidies, EBT and WIC.
Keep in mind too that those median household numbers include retirees who have already paid there houses off and can live on modest income. If you exed out retirees with paid off homes and people living in subsidized housing, the median numbers would be MUCH higher. Someone just starting out of HS or college in those expensive areas is facing a MUCH different environment than their parents or grandparents faced in their times.
“It is the sufferings of the many which pay for the luxuries of the few.”
~ Greta Tintin Eleonora Ernman Thunberg
~ Born: 3rd January 2003 Stockholm, Sweden
~ Occupation: Student, environmental activist
Awards:
~ Fritt Ord Award (2019)
~ Rachel Carson Prize (2019)
~ Ambassador of Conscience Award (2019)
~ Right Livelihood Award (2019)
~ International Children's Peace Prize (2019)
~ Time Person of the Year (2019)
~ Gulbenkian Prize for Humanity (2020)
It’s easy to trigger you you just keep repeating the same meaningless shit over and over,
too funny
The truth hurts, but if you accept it, it will set you free…
The agony
LOL
You’re not supposed to be so blind with patriotism, ageism, nationalism, indoctrination that you can’t face reality.
Wrong is wrong, no matter who does it or who says it, neither when or where it was done or said.
~ IceyLoco
~ May 25th 2020
:D
You’re not supposed to be so blind with patriotism, ageism, nationalism, indoctrination that you can’t face reality."
It's called being senile
Between the two of them, they don’t have an original thought.
"When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser”
~ Socrates
:D
If you can get a high income in a low-tax location (that still somehow has good public schools if you need them), that's a no brainer. But the higher income opportunities seem be in places with higher state and/or local taxes, so it gets complicated.Tijuana
Re conspicuous consumption, hard to characterize generations accurately, as it varies a lot within generations. But, when I was younger, I remember women bragging a lot about shopping at expensive, "upscale" stores. Most strippers I know are more focused on clothing that expresses their personal aesthetic, and they're proud to say it when they got it for a low price from Shein.
In it one of the great stories was about how they hosted a gathering of millionaires in a hotel meeting room. They put out a fancy spread with ‘high end’ food like caviar and shrimp and no one ate it. When they asked the attendees why they didn’t partake they basically said we don’t eat that stuff; give me chips and a sandwich. Most of the attendees were regular working people who were smart savers, not Wall St types making bank.
You want to help the poor ? Tie any aid to them either getting a job or entering a training program. Don’t take away their ambition and self respect.
“FTX paid roughly $84 million in 2020 to take a majority stake in Blockfolio, in what was then among the largest crypto acquisitions. About 94% was paid in FTT tokens, a cryptocurrency that FTX created”