Seeking advice from the veterans (Puta burnout)

@Ballin69

I will play along and comment on your discussion.

Sorry to break it to you Young Man but Santa Claus and the Tooth Fairy are not real, neither is “Love” and hundreds of artificially created “needs” and “wants”

The modern idea of “love” and “relationships” were invented to create an artificial “need” that is used to control people and profit from them.

You were taught and believe in the idea of “falling in love” and believe in chasing this artificially created “need”, that doesn’t exist in nature.

You are infatuated with your “first time” with a Girl in the paid-for-sex-hobby, because everything went “well”, it was a “good experience”

Now you are “Chasing the dragon” wanting to feel the same way as you did on your “first experience”.

There is only one first experience, for everything, after that it won’t fell the same, everything might be close, but it won’t be like the first time.

Nothing would compare to what you had on that first, magical time. And you are going to end broke and heartbroken if you don’t accept that.

Remember All activities, sexual or not, in our capitalist society have a cost in money, time and effort.

With respect to relationship with women; I would refer you to Demosthenes (384 – 12 October 322 BC) Greek statesman and orator of ancient Athens.

1. We have courtesans for the sake of pleasure.
2. Concubines for the daily health of our bodies, and
3. Wives to bear us lawful offspring and be the faithful guardians of our homes

In this list is the Greek view of woman in the classic age.

And in all ages and times.

All men want that, but only some can afford it...

In today’s world Demosthenes would say:

1. We have high end escorts, centerfolds, actresses, models, Strippers (ITC OTC) etc that provide PSE/GFE for the sake of pleasure.
2. Mistresses/Sugar Babies/; etc, for the daily health of our bodies.
3. Trophy Girlfriends/Wives to bear us lawful offspring, and be the faithful guardians of our homes.
4. Realistic Sex Dolls/Gynoids/Fembot, and Internet Porn and Instagram/Onlyfans “Models”, for kicks-and-giggles”

Remember

“In this country, you gotta make the money first. Then when you get the money, you get the power. Then when you get the power, then you get the women.”

~ Cuban refugee Tony Montana (Al Pacino) in the movie Scarface.

Don’t overthink things, if you can afford the paid-for-sex hobby and you are not hurting yourself or anybody else, make it a good beneficial experience for you.

And remember Pics and Vids or it didn’t happen.

:D

Go develop yourself. If you are in your 20s, or a man in general then you should be able to eventually find something without paying, provided you hit the gym, dress better etc. Being with random broads is always great but after a while majority of men all get that feeling, it’s why you have the wife and then the mistress or the whores for lust.

If you want to pay to be loved then you can look for a sb relationship or ongoing gfe with escorts/strippers and hope they fall but chances are low. Realistically, going to have to start looking for a regular woman for those things

Based on your prior reviews, I'm going to assume that this is not a troll...

It sounds like you're in it only for the sex, not the companionship. What you're missing here are social skills IMO. You're never going to be able to buy love; you have to put in the work to make that kind of connection. Go out and make yourself some female friends and figure out how to communicate, and relate to them, and enjoy their company, or forever wonder why getting sex alone isn't making you happy.

“Go develop yourself” is good advice. Your situation is one of the main reasons why young guys should not be buying pussy. Go get it for free from from the available civilian market. She likely won’t be pornstar caliber or a smoking hot IG model, but a relationship with a decent looking girl your own age will provide you with what you’re missing in your life. Then, after you’ve established yourself, matured a little, and gotten tired of fucking that decent looking girl, you can treat yourself to the occasional smoking hot Latina IG model, and the thrill will be back.

Go get into a few relationships, that will make you jaded as fuck. Then you will come to appreciate the joy of fucking TJ putas without all the drama that comes with relationships etc.

Do you really want an LTR? If a woman loves you, will you still be sexually satisfied with her when she's 50?

We see sucky relationships all around. We think, that would never be me, I'd never be that dumb/pathetic. But it sneaks up on you.

Many women won't love you because you were the customer of sex worker. Or, they'll expect you to have some big come to Jesus how could I have done something soo horrible moment. So either you accept a much smaller pool of potentials, or have a deep dark secret from the get go (see previous paragraph).

Consider giving it a try seeing escorts, ones who doesn't have a pimp or work in a pimpy brothel. Many have a more positive, friendly vibe, because they are getting further ahead financially through their sex work. Treat them like a GF as far as how much roughness, how deep penetration, they are comfortable with. Back and scalp rubs if they like them. Escort GFE won't be enough for everyone (especially if you want kids). But the trade off is a much more low-stress, care-free life. And you can always hope for some good times with NSA fuck buddies.

So. Many. Words. If you're eating too much, eat less. If you're bored with the same cuisine, take a break. It'll taste better when you go back.

@Ballin69

I will play along and answer your questions.

Q: what do I do now that fucking a puta doesn't give me the same high it used to?

A: Find one (Stripper, Street Walker, High End European Escort, etc, etc, etc) that is smoking hot , to you, and nice, to you, and could make you come in your pants within minutes of being with you. And make sweet love to her, not fuck, for as long as it takes to make her cum and squirt. You will get a high if you are able to do that.

What has worked for me, with my ATF Stripper Ally, who was a baby stripper when we meet, very sweet and nice, was to make her feel safe, in a clean comfortable environment (nice hotel room) secure and desired so the sex got better and better because she was more comfortable and felt safe relaxed and was able to let herself go and enjoy it, I enjoyed it too, she would experience multiple orgasms and was very shy and sweet about it.

Ally and I developed a Sugar Baby type of relationship we had OTC GFE almost every week for more than two years. She would model sexy outfits I would get her, I have thousands of pictures. We would massage each other and make love, sometimes we would go to dinner at a fancy restaurant and sometimes she would spend the night because exhausted she would fall asleep with her head on my chest like the little angel she was.

She was worth every penny and every second I spent with her.

Similarly when I meet mi ATF woman and I had one of the best sexual experiences in my life. I wrote an article about it:

“How I found my All Time Favorite woman.” tuscl.net

In any “business relationship” there are people that are nice, professional, offer friendly service and “it is a pleasure doing business with them”.

Q: Is there a way I can pay for love?

A: Like I said “Love”, like Santa and the Tooth Fairy are made up “needs” to profit from people one way or another. So yes you can pay for “love” if you want, because love is an idea, concept and some people like to pay for that.

Q: Or at least a way to trick my brain into experiencing the feeling of being loved?

A: Yes; you (and others around you) can trick your brain into believing almost anything.

Q: Get an ATF?

A: Yes if you can afford her, financially and emotionally/mentally

Q: Do sessions longer than 30 min?

A: Yes, if you can afford them, financially and emotionally/mentally

Q: How long will be enough?

A: As long as you and her are having a good mutually beneficial pay-for-sex relationship and as long as YOU can afford her, financially and emotionally/mentally

Q: Or do I need a 5 year break or something?

A: if you can afford different girls for different purposes, financially and emotionally/mentally you don’t need a break.

Just remember the adult industry and all the different pay-for-sex activities are considered a hobby for many adults.

Also again keep expectations realistic; the paid for sex experience can be an expensive hobby for most people.

It’s is common knowledge and socially/culturally accepted that hobbies are good for people’s physical and mental health, because that is a good way to spend leisure time.

Having hobbies during leisure is associated with health benefits, enjoyment, less disease and longer life expectancy, street reduction, better sleep, Improving work performance etc, etc, etc.

People that participated in enjoyable activities had greater life satisfaction and feel their lives had a greater sense of purpose and meaning, because they are happy.

The “problem” is that our Over-Sexualized and at the same time Sexually-Repressed American culture/society men and women receive mixed messages about their sexuality.

We want women to be objects of sexual desire, yet we expect them to be pure.

The reality is that, men and women have a natural and healthy desire to be sexual.

Yet in our sexually repress society/culture men and women are less likely to reveal their sexual desires.

American society encourages men and women to push their sexual desires down.

As long as you participate in the adult industry hobby in moderation and enjoy it, you should be fine.

Again think of it as what it is; a hobby that you should be able to enjoy within your life schedule and budget, just like any other hobby.

Sexual interactions and the “adult industry” in various forms is nothing new in the world or the western culture...

You really have to learn to like yourself AND the women you are fucking. I mean actually like the woman not just that your duck fits inside her or she’s available and doesn’t complain. It takes work and empathy to find the one that matters and if you put in the effort and find her, you will still be interested when your both 50. And it won’t be cause of the orgasim but because of the comfort level. And the right one won’t mind if you stray once in a while if that’s important to you, she might go with you. To find that though I can assure you it is work for you as much as it’s work for her. Start in your local swinger clubs if your looking for sexually open females.

Let me give you some advice. None of us here are qualified to give you professional help. Lots of good advice here based on experiences, but you should talk to a therapist.

Just figure out how to balance out receiving those chemicals in your brain that makes you happy. Abusing how much you receive sex from strangers will mess with you and leave you feeling shitty. Maybe work on other aspects of your life as well that’ll make you happy.

Counseling is a crap shoot. You may or may not get good advice.

It's rare cases where it's good advice when someone tells you what to do. Only stuff like "don't eat yellow snow". Adults generally only need advice when making the sort of choices where there's no one right answer for everyone. Good advice is helping someone be aware of all the pros, cons, and pitfalls they need to consider, in choosing what's best for them.

Best advice I ever received "Buy Low Sell High"

I disagree. And this is also based on my experience with therapy, If you have a decent therapist, he/she can help you figure out why or why not you may have a sex addiction. A lot of times it’s insecurity, childhood trauma, bad relationship trauma, etc. I’m not against this hobby, but if it’s contributing to the mental decline of OP, he needs to figure that out first. Maybe once you do that, you can go back to this hobby or not, knowing fully well what you want that will make you happy. Plenty of adults benefit from therapy.

Wow, a lot of good feeback. I'll do my best to address all of it. No, I'm not trolling, as you can see based on my other articles and reviews.

CJKent: I do feel a little bit like I'm chasing the dragon, except I don't have an urge to go back again right now. I don't think love falls into the same category as Santa; I've been in love before. I like your point about being able to afford it. I can comfortably afford it financially, but I'm unsure what the emotional costs are. Is there a way to know how this will affect me down the line?

I know you say you don't believe in love, but how does a sugar baby or ATF make you feel different than a high end escort does?

Johnny: I appreciate your point about improving myself. I am deep down the self improvement rabbit hole. I am very active and have a nice body. I'm not like a body builder, but I am fit. I wasn't blessed with genes that will let me get any girl I want though. I'm attractive, but not attractive enough to have any girl I want, except when I'm at an establishment like HK. I love that power trip of being able to have any girl I want, and I want a lot of them.

Have you had relationships with regular girls and sugar babies? Were sugar babies close enough to the real thing? I have only ever had a real relationship and then lots of 30 min sex.

Booji boy: I think I am learning right now that sex is not a replacement for love. I grew up in the era of social media and tik tok and have consumed a lot of content that places a heavy emphasis on sex and little emphasis on love.

I think I am lacking social skills. I'm scared to approach random girls, and I'm not sure why. The one long relationship I've been in was started by the girl, and all of my dates have been spawned from dating apps. I'm disappointed in the number of dates I've been on, but not with the quality of them. I suck at breaking the ice. The first time I went to HK even I was terrified to tip the girls and feel their goodies; now that anxiety is gone, but I still have anxiety about striking up conversations with random girls, unless they talk to me first.

I don't have what I would call female friends. I have female acquaintances though. As in, girls that I talk to regularly in my social circle, but in no way would I feel safe sharing feelings with them the same way I can with my male friends. Do people actually have female friends that they can be vulnerable around who aren't sexual partners? I've lived 20+ years of life without any of those female friends.

ilbbaicnll: I'm not sure I want an LTR. All I know is that something is missing right now, even with sex. I've been in an amazing LTR that turned sour before, so I definitely get what you're saying. I know it might happen to me again. I think I do want kids, but I think the only reason I want them is because there doesn't seem to be any other point to life other than hedonism, but the high from acts of hedonism is so small and unable to be savored, especially compared to how much of life is just empty and meaningless.

623: what kind of work does that entail? For the past 2+ years (since my big breakup), I've been in the gym almost every day. I've been going out and making new friends in a new city, and going on dates from dating apps. Also, I'm in therapy. I'm not sure I like myself, and I'm at best indifferent about the women I'm paying to fuck me. I hate that I have to pay (even though mathematically it is nothing to me, I just hate the power dynamic). In my real life dates, I have really liked the women I've been on dates with, but have always been too scared to escalate it even to a kiss.

Obviously I am some problems that are still unresolved on that front, but I'm working on them. Do you have any other recommendations for what kind of work I need to be doing to find a wife that it will work out with long term?

Kristopher: I appreciate the input. I am actually already in therapy :) but for issues that seem indirectly related to paying for sex. I dealt with being bullied in middle school. I was always very small, and went though very late puberty to be taller than average and even play a sport at the NCAA level. But I think being small for so long and bullied for a number of years left an emotional scar on me. I don't like people as much as I did from before all this trauma, and have a deep fear of humiliation, and I almost never reach out to make new friends (or meet new girls). This was never a problem in high school or college because people were always reaching out to me (and to some extent girls were reaching out too). Now that I'm graduated, I don't have a nice cushy social environment like that and I have to go way out of my way to make friends and meet girls. So, I'm on tinder and pay for sex rather than just existing and talking to girls who end up in my social circle.

Part of my problem now is that I'm not sure if paying for sex is part of the solution or part of the problem. I certainly think the outcome has been better than being celibate for the last 2 years, but I'd prefer if I had a meaningful relationship right now.

Ballin, you sound a lot like me in my early 20s. Grew up pretty sheltered, discovered P4P before civvie dating. If I lived anywhere near TJ, I might have fucked myself into the poorhouse. It sounds like you’re expecting P4P to fill needs it just isn’t meant to. It doesn’t mean something’s wrong with you, it means, number one, you’re craving something from women other than sex, and number two, you’re not getting the dopamine hit from P4P you were initially. That’s natural. I club/P4P in cycles, and the “power trip” of being able to get any girl easily is fun. Part of why I keep doing this even if I’m civvie dating as well.

But it sounds like there’s something deeper going on. You’re not sure what you want and come off as wounded by your relationships. As one of the few admitted mental cases here (I have bipolar 2), with an upbringing that I needed to un-learn (were you raised strictly Catholic by any chance?), therapy can be life-changing if you find the right therapist with which to work through your shit. Go to PsychologyToday.com and find a good one. You can choose by health insurance, gender, specific issues down to a pretty fine level of detail. And with everything occurring electronically these days, you can choose from a broader geographic area.

It might sound glib, but the guys saying to go develop yourself are right. Therapy is a big part of it. Lifting heavy weights does wonders for your body and mind. Learn a few skills that are attractive to women like dancing or cooking. Be an interesting person; travel the world, read good books. P4P should be well down your list of hobbies.

Good luck.

@Ballin69:

Sex and love are two different things, yes. In my experience, a relationship is about 1% sex and 99% mundane things like shopping for groceries or watching TV. All guys are scared to approach random girls, on varying levels. There is no normal for that because everyone is unique. Your therapist is qualified to advise you, not me, but I can offer is a Samuel Beckett quote to consider in this:

"Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better."

If you're brave, consider the context of that quote in the rest of Worstward, Ho.

You say your only non-puta relationships are with women who live out of state. That’s a big clue.

@Ballin69

I will play along and answer your questions:

Q: Is there a way to know how this will affect me down the line?

A: No; Nobody can predict the future.

Q: I know you say you don't believe in love, but how does a sugar baby or ATF make you feel different than a high end escort does?

A: like I say quoting Demosthenes:”;

1. I have had high end escorts, strippers, porn stars, for the sake of pleasure, my all time favorite woman in that respect was a Eastern European blonde that enjoyed the experience as much as I did, she squirted and was happily surprised about it. Like I said it was a pleasure doing “business” with her.

2. I have had Mistresses/Sugar Babies/; etc, for the weekly health of my and her body. My ATF Baby Striper became my “Sugar Baby” and we meet every weekend for over two years, the sex was a Girlfriend Type of Experience, she referred to me as her fiancé, her sister let me know initially and I enjoyed she calling me that occasionally. Like I said She was worth every penny and every second I spent with her.

The same way I don’t believe in the concept of Love I don’t believe in anything else that is not found in nature/(the jungle), like therapy, religion, Santa, The Tooth Fairy, Dragons, The Buggy Man, Witchcraft, etc etc etc.

Like I said before; you can use the Adult Industry as a Healthy Hobby, because it can be a good Hobby, like any other hobby you can have if you’re able to afford it.

I know you have a lot of beliefs about life that don’t make any sense to other humans, because you are a unique individual, everyone is a different unique person and everyone experience a different unique existence primarily inside their head.

We all deal with life’s so-called “problems” and “challenges” differently.

Some of us enjoy the “challenge” and thrive solving the “problems”.

Some of us blame others for our “problems”, and are so “affected “ by the “challenges” that we retreat internally, and avoid “unpleasant” social situations/interactions.

You don’t have to agree with my point of view or take my advice. Because you are going to have to trust yourself. For “good” or for “bad”, happy or unhappy, it's your life, and what you do with it has always been and will always be entirely up to you.

I Know you were sold on the idea of a “Loving Relationship” the same way women were told they were “princesses” and they would marry a prince that will come for them in a white horse and they will live happily ever after.

We all know that Monarchies were despotic where the king was a despot, who dominated people by force of will and arms. And his rule was arbitrary.

You wrote and I quote:

“The first time I went to HK even I was terrified to tip the girls and feel their goodies; now that anxiety is gone”

As you cans see, I hope, it is ultimately to you to act despite being “terrified”, that is the definition of Bravery: strength of mind or spirit that enables a person to encounter danger with firmness, despite of being afraid.

You have to think for yourself and view your life in this world for what it is to you.

Ralph Waldo Emerson said, “The purpose of life is not to be happy. It is to be useful, to be honorable, to be compassionate, to have it make some difference that you have lived and lived well.”

I would say: “The purpose of life is to be happy, and to be useful, to be honorable, to be compassionate, to have it make some difference that you have lived and lived well.”

Believe me it is all inside your head, you can believe in Santa or Don’t, believe a situation is a problem or a opportunity.

It is also up to you to take action or not.

"Happiness is when what you think (and believe), what you say, and what you do are in harmony."

Don’t worry be happy and live like today is the last day of your life.

===> "I've been going out and making new friends in a new city, and going on dates from dating apps. Also, I'm in therapy. I'm not sure I like myself...In my real life dates, I have really liked the women I've been on dates with, but have always been too scared to escalate it even to a kiss."

So you're insecure as fuck and your dates are crashing and burning, in large part I suspect because you are coming across as weird and timid and maybe a bit creepy. So you seek solace in the arms of putas who don't give a shit about anything but getting paid.

It sounds like you're on top of the physical stuff as much as you can be, but you're just fucked up in the head. IMHO a head shrink can't fix you, only you can. Whining about your fears and insecurities to someone else just gives you an excuse to keep wallowing in your own weakness and victimhood.

IMO you need to develop a core personality and lifestyle that you enjoy and can be proud of and learn to get comfortable in your own skin. Maybe develop a few hobbies, preferably with at least one that would be pleasing for certain women to join you in. For me it was cooking - man there is no better panty remover than a homemade chicken parm dinner followed by a few apple martinis. But I digress. Build a life that doesn't involve constant trips to TJ when not wallowing in your own self-pity and loneliness.

In other words, start working on the man you want to be instead of looking for other things to fill the void. Make no mistake, this is a multi-year journey, but it beats going through life as a whiny incel. And you may want to take a break from the dating scene for a bit to re-center. Maybe hit TJ every so often if you need a release, but otherwise devote your time to building your own lifestyle and identity before going back into the dating market.

And when you do start dating again, maybe bolster yourself with a little liquid courage if you need to. Fuck dude, no girl wants uber timid or quietly creepy.

Oh, and when you got to the gym, maybe consider switching up your routines a bit to include more free weights and power lifting. It may have 3 benefits: (1) give you a nice burn and endorphin rush at the end of your workout, which will make you feel better for a while; (2) in shape is nice, but muscular is nicer when one is on the dating scene; and (3) may toughen you up a bit mentally by pushing you out of your comfort zone.

One easy step towards a healthier psyche is to drop the "puta" shit. I've only been to TJ once, but I speak enough Spanish to carry on a conversation. The BGs are just women, who have to push their boundaries harder, because they were born on the wrong side of an imaginary line. But they ARE very, very jaded. So, if they see you are honestly interested in them as people, they are likely to switch to a pity hustle, rather than thinking you want to be satisfied sexually.

Stop with the "power dynamics" foolishness with women. It's a man's world (especially south of the border). Take up boxing or MMA if you want your wins to be more satisfying (because they're not pathetic).

I'm guessing part of your angst is wanting a chick who's really horny for you back. But, for 90+% of men, we have to accept, to have that steadily, there are hard trade offs. Typically, you have to be in an LTR, be ready to be a good father. Even if she only wants fur babies, there are plenty of other issues. What to spend money on, how to spend leisure time.

Because humans are silly, the most envied people in the world are the ones who put a lot of effort into posing. I can't believe it now that, even when I was young and dumb, I ever envied people who routinely go to bars, have "conversations" shouted over loud music, while drinking themselves into a deeper level of clownhood.

Goals and finding meaning in life can be over emphasized. I feel that you get more bliss with small things in each day, that make it a better day. And the world has plenty of people. If raising a kid gives your life meaning, adopt (although it's harder than it should be).

^Ilb, you're over-reacting. You gave him shit simply for saying that he doesn't like to feel like a chump who has to pay for it. It used to make him feel powerful to have his choice of girls, but now it makes him feel weak to pay girls that don't give a shit about him. He's in his 20s - it's an understandable feeling. And if the girls aren't putas, what are they? 😉

Then you go onto a really kooky rant about the trade-offs of relationships, followed by a completely off-topic diatribe about posers who go to loud bars and drink too much and concluded with a weird suggestion that he adopt instead of having kids. Where the fuck did all that come from? It seems that you're projecting your own baggage into all of this - just sayin.

Take a nap or something dude, lol. Maye have a Snickers. The kid is hardly saying anything outrageous.

This falls into the realm of "Hedonic Treadmill" phenomenon. It's not the first time it has come up here and it's one of the top reasons why even the most dedicated strip club customers take a break every so often. Eventually, that which used to become thrilling becomes mundane. For a lot of guys here, even if it's no longer thrilling, it's still fun. But we also have other things in our lives that provide meaning beyond strip clubs, P4P, or whatever.

I think that being in therapy is a good thing as long as you have the right therapist (sometimes difficult to evaluate, though). I also agree that while being in therapy is a good thing, the bulk of the work off the couch (therapy, not VIP...) is on you. So, if you need to take positive actions to improve yourself (exercise, education, being social away from clubs, etc.) then do that. As you do that, you might find that clubs become a thing that provides less of a "fix" and just an enjoyable thing (which is fine).

Here's one bit of advice I often offer up to those looking for more genuine relationships. Go find a non-profit, charity, or political organization that addresses an issue that you care a lot about and sign up to volunteer in person with that organization. You will then meet other people who also care about that thing, which is an automatic icebreaker that will help you meet new people with at least one thing in common that is important to you and them. It is also a great way to meet women and potentially start dating. I know many people who found their long-term partners by way of volunteering.

What you're experiencing isn't unusual and it is addressable. Good luck.

@Ballin69, don't know what else I can add here, except to tell you to get the fuck out of the game. It's a nice little diversion for 20-somethings, but young guys should be seeking a GF and then, maybe, a wife, someone to share your life with. Otherwise it's a just a never-ending cycle of costly transactional fucks that will stretch for decades and leave you broke, unfulfilled and alone for the rest of your life. It's different for older guys who've been burned by broken marriages and have limited options.

Take an extended break from mongering. And remember, if you get the itch to return to PfP, you can always go to Phoenix and have your way with @Desertscrub's mom's mouth and ass for $5 a pop, much like so many Mexican migrants did back in the day.

@Ballin69

Yeah made me remember about David Spade stand up special, “My Fake Problems”, because you say that you have the money to enjoy some of the good things in life, the hobby included if you want, but you still are “pursuing” happiness instead of being happy.

You also made me remember the Dialogue between Melisandre and the little girl Princess Shireen in Game of thrones, because you still believe in lies, superstitions and false tales, etc etc etc

Melisandre: What do you know of the Gods?

Princess Shireen: I read the seven pointed star.

Melisandre: Lies and fables. The Septons speak of seven goods, there are but two, a god of light, love and joy and a god of darkness, evil and fear and are eternally at war.

Princess Shireen: There are no seven heavens and no seven hells?

Melisandre: There is only one hell princess the one we live in now.

Remember this:

“The ability to be in the present moment is a major component of mental wellness.” – Abraham Maslow

Your happiness, doesn’t happen in another place but this place where you are now, it doesn’t happen in another time but the present.

:D

Tetradon: I bet you and I do have a lot in common. I grew up pretty sheltered, with overbearing parents who couldn't protect me when I was away at school. I'm not Catholic, and don't feel like I was ever sheltered from a beliefs perspective, but I can see how certain upbringings would need to be unlearned in today's society.

Booji Boy: yeah, my therapist thinks I could approach randoms if I want to, but if it brings too much stress that cycles back into negative emotions, then the best place to start would be starting to share my hobbies with a group rather than by myself, so I am working on that to branch out of my social circle. Then I'll revisit walking up to random girls and talking to them for no reason other than that I find them attractive.

Agreed about relationships. I've only been in one, but sex was a huge reason why I was in that relationship. We had lots and lots of amazing sex, but I didn't like her that much for the mundane stuff. She was alright, but wouldn't have been my first pick. For sex though, she was my first pick for sure.

Mark: I have had a long term, serious relationship that ended just short of getting engaged. But on the dating apps, I do gravitate toward the tourists who are in town. Maybe I have a commitment issue, but all I want is a steady relationship again lol.

CJKent: I agree with you about happiness and bravery. I hope and believe that some day I will overcome the anxiety, similar to how I overcame anxiety to tip putas and grab some tits lol.

I still believe in loving relationships. The part of my lizard brain that tells me to find a girl is hurting because I haven't had that need satisfied is so long. I believe girls are the same way and there is someone out there looking for a long connection with me. Maybe we disagree on what a loving relationship is, but I believe they exist.

rick dugan- I think you're a little harsh on your assessment, but some of your points did resonate. I am an insecure fuck who seeks the solace of putas 100%. I don't think my dates think I'm creepy though. Some of them still text me from out of state. For the most part, they think I'm fun and handsome, or at least that is how I see it.

The part about real girls that scares me is that I'm never 100% sure they want to be kissed, or fucked, etc. etc. Putas on the other hand: 100% they want $100 for sex. That takes a lot of the fear out of the equation.

I do kind of wallow in excuses, but I also think that wallowing is part of the process. I think I have emotions to process, and that processing them will make room for new ones. i.e. dealing with a potential rejection, pushing past anxiety etc.

Also, totally agreed about the gym. I don't lift to be in shape. I am very in shape already and I lift primarily for the mental benefits, and I get way more mental benefits by power lifting, as you suggested.

ilb - I'm not sure what you mean by drop the puta shit. I am always respectful to them, and have never even had a disagreement with a single one of them, despite all of the posts about ROBs. The problem is, they don't speak English, and even if they did, whatever connection they would make with me wouldn't be for real. It would be for money.

The power dynamic thing I think is real. I LOVE the power of being able to choose any puta I want. But I hate that I have to pay. In my ideal world, I would get to choose whatever girl I wanted and make her my wife, without having to pay. I understand that's now how reality works though.

I do want a chick that is really horny for me. I've had it before, but I want it for forever. I understand there will be a trade off, but to me those tradeoffs seem worth it.

I definitely want meaning in my life, not just a bunch of pleasures. And you're right, humans are silly in the ways you mentioned.

"In my ideal world, I would get to choose whatever girl I wanted and make her my wife, without having to pay."

You always have to pay in some form, man.

Based on the above post, I think you should take a long break from the fantasy land of Zona Norte. It sound like you've developed some expectations that range from unrealistic to unhealthy.

Ishmael: agreed about the hedonic treadmill. I'm familiar with that term, and agreed about the therapy advice. I'm not necessarily volunteering right now, but I am going out of my way to participate in my hobbies with a larger group other than just by myself or with my friends who I already know.

Which expectation do I have that is unrealistic or unhealthy?

OrangeLover: yeah I definitely need to take a break. Any idea how long is enough? In the past, I've gone about ~6 months in between visits, but in my visits I will go crazy. Like 10 girls in 2 days crazy. Hopefully I find a long term partner in the next 6 months, I don't want to be sexually frustrated while I'm dating either.

I would avoid calling them puta (whore) to be on the safe side. I'd suggest teibolera (originally derived from table dancer, but now just means stripper). A polite if woke-ish term is sexoservidora.

Do you get a power rush from playing checkers with 7 year olds, and screaming "loser!" at them when you win? Have you ever seen any other bars that have so much wait staff? The main job of the meseros is to itimidate the BGs and keep them in line. I'd bet you $50 a BG would be threatened with firing if she turned a customer down. You don't have the power, the meseros do, the power to make the BGs destitute.

If a man loves a woman in a healthy way, there is a good chance that will turn her on like crazy. Even if the man is homely or ever straight up ugly. Of the many advantages that men have over women, this is perhaps the biggest.

I think it's less than 50% of people who approach marriage with the right attitude. Not fickle, not trying to get more than they give. I would guess that percentage among BGs is higher than among people in general. Remember that many if not most of them are doing an extremely stressful job out of love for their children. They are scammy with customers, but I don't think that necessarily means they'd be scammy with a man who truly loved them in a healthy way.

I doubt you'll be happier by not going. And they do need the money (even though they don't get the percentage of it they should). I suggest going, but keep it present in your mind how grateful you should be that someone is letting you put a part of your body inside theirs.

I would take advice from Ilbb… wit a grain of salt. If I remember he has only been to TJ once and said he hated it. Plus I think his facts are skewed considering that I have read alternative relating of facts from many other sources regarding how the girls are treated and how they are paid etc. I think most of them are there because the money is far better in the Zona and they can stand working ther where many others might not be able to.

I was in the same place as you. I use to love mongering and going to TJ as often as I could and I even took time away from the scene. I came back to it for a year and realized that it wasn’t as fun as I remembered and it was a lot of work involved with getting my nut.

I stopped going to TJ because it was way more work than I liked, tbh. I still enjoy strip clubs and on occasion will get extras.

My advice is just take a long break from mongering and develop yourself self.

@623, the BGs told me they work as BGs because they'd make far less money otherwise. They are kept in line through threat of firing, not threats they'll be beaten up or anything like that.

What bothered me is that I'm not sure, after all the nickle and diming, the BG gets to keep even half of what you pay for an arriba. And I think the clubs may even take a part of what you tip them. I started a whole thread about my visit: tuscl.net .

===> "rick dugan- I think you're a little harsh on your assessment, but some of your points did resonate. I am an insecure fuck who seeks the solace of putas 100%. I don't think my dates think I'm creepy though. Some of them still text me from out of state. For the most part, they think I'm fun and handsome, or at least that is how I see it. The part about real girls that scares me is that I'm never 100% sure they want to be kissed, or fucked, etc. etc."

Dude, it doesn't matter what they tell you by text from a safe distance. 😆

The proof is in the pudding. If a first date is going well, you don't need her to draw you a roadmap. There is a natural flow to it as you get a bit more comfortable with each other. Alcohol definitely helps if you naturally have trouble loosening up enough to engage comfortably with her and pick up the signals.

Your dates OTOH are universally flaming out. You won't fix that until you do things to fix yourself and can behave with some semblance of normalcy on a date. Or you can just keep fucking TJ putas and whining about it on here. Your choice.

ballin69 said "Which expectation do I have that is unrealistic or unhealthy?"

"I'm not necessarily volunteering right now, but I am going out of my way to participate in my hobbies with a larger group other than just by myself or with my friends who I already know."

That's fine, but the point behind volunteering is that you exit your comfort zone and meet totally new people. The one thing that makes doing that much easier is that everyone in the room cares a lot about whatever cause or principle sits behind the organization for which you're volunteering.

When you go to a strip club or a brothel, you're paying strangers to "like" you. It's easy to become addicted/dependent on that immediate and nearly failure-free gratification; that's not healthy. When you volunteer for a cause you care about, you have to develop new relationships authentically.

"The power dynamic thing I think is real. I LOVE the power of being able to choose any puta I want."

Not healthy, to a degree. You're not the only one who enjoys hitting the "Easy" button on sexy fun time. But, with most guys, the moment the leave the presence of sex workers they understand that in all healthy relationships, the power dynamic is shared, as is the vulnerability. If the one-sided power dynamic thing is bleeding into your real life to a degree that you're seeking counsel from a bunch of online strip club perverts about meaningful relationships, then it's well past time to un-fuck that about yourself.

"I do want a chick that is really horny for me. I've had it before, but I want it for forever."

Not realistic. If you're in a long-term relationship with someone, then eventually that crazy-mad passion thing will temper down to a sustainable level. That's not to say it has to become boring or tedious; I know long-term couples who are still very passionate and loving towards each other, but their theatrically loud porn-level sex days are behind them.

"I definitely want meaning in my life, not just a bunch of pleasures."

Then you need to separate yourself from the habits/behaviors that are a substitute for real meaning in your life (and I'll gently note that volunteering is a great way to add meaning to your life and meet new people...).

"yeah I definitely need to take a break. Any idea how long is enough?"

How can a bunch of people who don't know you answer that question? Long enough is when it stops being a problem and you start forming real relationships with women. Or, you might need to walk away from it entirely. Sex workers might be something you can't incorporate into your life with moderation. But who knows? That's between you and your therapist, and anyone else you talk to about this.

An example ... I can't play video games (PC, console, whatever). I mean, I can play them very well actually. But, if I like a game then I'll play it for hours obsessively and blow off other important things in the process. I've tried different things to moderate that behavior, but nothing has worked. So, my solution has been to not play video games. At all.

I have no idea why I've got an unhealthy relationship with that one activity when I can effortlessly moderate other vices, but that's how it is.

"The part about real girls that scares me is that I'm never 100% sure they want to be kissed, or fucked, etc. etc."

Not healthy. I suspect that all the transactional "love" has made you both risk adverse to and not great at recognizing genuine affection and desire. If the vast majority of your intimacy is guaranteed via payment, then it's possible that you're emotionally stunted because you're not having to work for it, but only pay for it.

One final point. I suspect that you've exhausted all of the good (and bad...) advice you can get from total strangers online. Now would be a good time to go do the things you need to do, rather than post about them.

I hope that this is helpful. Good luck.