Lowering Your OTC Rate

Look at it from her perspective. What's in it for her if she does the same thing for less money given the state of inflation and price gouging.

Less sessions is the best you can do.

Typically OTC costs more than ITC but that is dependent on the amount of time and services. My experience has been that once a price has been established it is just about impossible to lower it. Start low and you can always increase it if the benefits get better.

You aren’t going to successfully reduce here rate and have her willingly put in the same effort to make sure that your experience will remain the same, more likely if she allows you to lower the rate she will come to resent you. Smarter move would be to find another fave and use the knowledge you’ve gained to start at a more realistic price point.

In the history of mankind, no one has ever lowered the OTC rate. Your ATF sounds like a keeper. Pay her what makes her happy.

Well now I'm not sure if I should post what I was thinking. Check your PMs lol.

What is the rate you are paying?

Thanks all for the feedback, which basically confirms what I assumed. I think I'll just scale back the number of OTC visits. If she eventually asks why, I'll tell her it's been getting a bit too expensive, stock market has been rough, or some other BS. That way I'm not "devaluing" her by requesting a rate reduction, but it gives her an opening to maybe meet me in the middle if it means more visits, and ultimately more money in her pocket. Will also start looking for my next ATF, but annoyed at the prospect of making the associated time investment.

@ drewcarypnw, $2.5k.

^ Are you serious $2500. That’s an insane amount to pay per meet. I’m fairly well off but I’ve never spent that kind of cash on any hooker.

Like I said.. I hate to admit it. I've never spent that much on any other girl ($1k/visit was my max before this, and only for 10s), but she set a high baseline for the first ITC extras experience, caught me in a moment of weakness so I agreed to it, and it somehow snowballed into a regular ITC and OTC thing at the same initial rate. I've been had, but my God is she good. (Yes, I'm still justifying it to myself.)

Damn. I recently shelled out $500 and I thought that was expensive. Same description as your girl.

^ I get it but damn man you need to be circumspect about some things, I have spent stupid money at times in a club setting yes too much alcohol was involved and I do understand what you are saying, but buddy probabilities are she couldn’t earn 2.5K in a week, you have to see that, and know when you’re being played

That's porn shoot money or getting into deluxe call girl territory. I'm not going to troll you, but that's a tough hole to climb out of with a strip club girl.

And you're probably fucked trying to fish in the same pond if you're looking to replace her.

Oh I know I’m being played, and I know I’m paying wayyy above market. But then I’ll drop $400-$500 on a new girl, have a lackluster nut, and tell myself it’s worth paying for the best. Maybe I’m in love lol.

I’m flying out to Miami on business tomorrow, extended my trip by a week just to monger, and hope to get some perspective on how bad I’m getting screwed so I can more easily let this girl go.

You're not being played. It's a price you agreed on and you're getting what you pay for.

If you don't want to pay anymore just drop her and get a cheaper hooker.

Good luck, read the reviews there’s a bunch of good clubs down here, don’t forget to write a review after your visit.

I wouldn't assume it can't be done, especially with that wildly inflated rate. Just bring it up after your next session and tell her you've been having a great time with her, but you've been re-evaluating your finances and you just can't justify this kind of expense anymore. So you will likely be seeing her a lot less. That could give her an opening to discuss the rate... let it be her idea not yours.

Holy cow! $2500 is my clubbing budget for 5 months. HAHA. But... if you're a billionaire, or just a seriously successful trader or something, who gives a shit? If you can afford it, then the $2500 doesn't really matter. To another guy, $250 is a lot, and to a billionaire $25,000 is insignificant. But in terms of value for money in the broad marketplace, I think you can get a pretty solid OTC for 1/2 or even 1/4 of what you're paying. So I would agree with your "objectively just not a good value" assessment. Also, since you are leading with the view that "the costs are really starting to get out of hand", I guess you're not a billionaire who spends more on the wet bar in his gulfstream than pussy.

WRT negotiating down, I doubt it. But since you're probably going to drop her if the costs don't come down, you may as well try to negotiate down before you split. It's very unlikely that she's got anyone else paying her that kind of money for OTC, so she may recognize that 1/2 of what you've been giving her is still 2x of what anyone else will giver her.

OTC rate? Did Bill James develop a new Sabermetric?

Trying keeping your head still, hands back, stay balanced and drive thru the ball

For FS it seems like asking for trouble to see the same women more than twice a month. Are you in the Bay Area? Aren't the women in the East Bay generally easier to satisfy $-wise?

You seem to be assuming she does OTC with others for much less. I'm not so sure that's true. If you tell her she's not worth what you're paying, that would likely go over as well as them telling you at your job they thought you were overpaid. Everyone has their pride. Just tell her you have to cut back because of other financial obligations. At least at first, wait to see if she offers you a break.

With my OTC ATF, I initially paid $800 (in the Mid West). You could say she was comparable to Cardi B looks-wise. But she tended to be catty, played games trying to see how little she could get away with doing for me. So I pled poor, said I could only do $600. She accepted it, but was always resentful. It all got too ugly eventually, I had to stop seeing her.

lmfao dude! Is she changing your transmission to?

Respect to you for mentioning the price, most guys on here don't have the balls to do that. You can knock 1.5k off of that and still likely be the top bidder. You got to chop that down. If you can't, then like get 5 other girls for that amount.

So, you're paying a rate that would be relatively expensive for a popular adult film actress, and that's fine if you're incredibly wealthy. My gut feeling is that the gap between what you're paying and what you'd like to pay is so great that your two choices are (1) find another dancer, or (b) pay it if you can afford it.

It really depends on your relationship to her and whether or not you think you can open the topic and not spoil the whole thing. I mean, even if you were able to get down to $1,500, you're still paying a lot but at least saving $1,000 per visit.

^ except for Iceefag he’ll claim to have paid twice that amount, of course with him it’s most likely in newly devalued Rubles.

^ That was for Muddy

@ceoaticeesangelsllc: Yeah, you're right. I've never done the straight hooker thing, always seemed like too much of a risk (getting caught in some LE sting).

@twentyfive: Will do. Pretty excited about the trip since latinas are my thing. Will be hitting up Tootsie's, Dean's Gold, and the Pompano big-3.

@wld4tatas: Yeah, that's pretty much what I've decided to do. Would rather see her half the time and continue to have great experiences vs. having her resent me and cut back on services.

@ drewcareypnw: Guess it's all relative. Being in San Francisco, you can make 7 figures and feel like you're scraping by sometimes, especially when a lot of the people you know have had 8-9 figure liquidity events and retired in their mid-30s. But this isn't really about the absolute dollars involved; I'm more concerned with getting good relative value.

@motorhead: Outside the Club rate. How much it takes to have her go on a date in the real world, then take her back to your place.

@ilbbaicnl: San Francisco. Wasn't aware of any good SCs in the East Bay? SJ is garbage. Too lazy to drive to Sac.

This girl is a 10, working in SF, so who knows. I've heard crazy stories about what some girls make. $10k-$25k for single visits with whales, while being flown private to their vacation homes. Hell, the high mileage >40 year old SC MILFs usually start by asking $1k for ITC BJs.

Thanks for the feedback. I don't want to make her resentful, that's the kiss of death.

@Muddy: I live in San Francisco, I only own EVs lol.

It's a valid point that regional markets will affect the price a lot. What is standard in NYC or SF will be vastly different from what is standard in Milwaukee, etc.

$2500 - dude i gotta ask. is this girl one of those instagram girls that nba or nfl players go for?

also can she able to print out a receipt so maybe you can use that as a tax write off?

listen to the guys here - get some new faves - you'll still should be able to get the same quality of a girl but in larger quantities.

@ rattdog: I would put her in that league, although a little more cute than hot perhaps. I give a brief description in my first post. She’s a bit of a unicorn for me, which is why I’ve put up with her rate for so long. I really can’t think of anything wrong with her (other than the fact that she’s a whore that charges too much). It’s not that hard to find a 10 around here, but pretty hard to find one that can DT like her, does everything uncovered (we get tested before each session), enthusiastic no flinch facials, natural tits you can wrap around your cock, allows photos/videos, etc. I can’t get enough of her. I think I’m talking myself into just keeping the status quo lol. This trip to Miami will hopefully be a nice reset and make me realize there are others.

Muddy's got a point... if the negotiation goes south, drown your sorrows by hiring 2 (3?) comparable OTCs at the same time for a night of debauchery. We'll expect a full report!

What you're paying for OTC seems about three time what it would be in Mid West. But housing costs are in SF about three times what they typically are in the Mid West. So maybe you are just paying the going rate.

Have you tried escorts and "massage"? Pretty sure that's available in the East Bay.

I think I save a lot of money cause a pretty face to me just has to be non-RBF.

In general I think you can have more of a win-win if you have a little humility and realize we are not better than them. It takes two people to do what we do, they probably had fewer options and opportunities in life than we did. If we see them as a whore or a piece of trash, we need to look in the mirror and see another piece of trash.

Save a little by getting an ITPL rate.

$2500 is really high even for san Francisco. Top instathots in California charge around 2k and give group discounts...

@ drewcareypnw: Hah. My ATF actually brought her friend along once and didn't upcharge me, gotta love that. Spent most of the time focusing on my ATF anyway, but getting blown by two chicks was cool. But otherwise, too much work to pleasure two chicks in a threesome. Just not for me I guess.

@ iibbaicnl: Makes sense, but then you have high COL places like Miami where the rates are much more reasonable. Supply and demand, like everything.

Never done escorts, mostly because I don't know where to look, but also paranoid about LE in my area. I'll do massages while traveling to friendly places (Puerto Vallarta, Montreal, etc.). Don't know if there's much of a scene close to home.

Wasn't saying saying my ATF is a piece of trash, but she is a whore be definition. I actually like her a lot as a person.

@CandymanOfProvidence: ITPL?

Dude, not sure how it is in post COVID world but I’d be hauling my ass to Toronto and Montreal. $2500 could get you almost a weeks worth of a-grade escorts

Merb.cc Terb.cc

@alphapol

I will play along and answer your questions:

Q: Has anyone successfully navigated an OTC rate reduction? A: YES, someone in the world of fiction that is TUSCL has. Some even have gone from P4P, to dating a stripper and falling in love and having a storybook romance and wedding and lived happily ever after…

Q: Or is my only recourse here reducing frequency of visits? A: NO; you have many other options, it is entirely up to you.

1. Make a lot more money, “FUCK IT” kind of money, because money can buy you the crazy happiness you have with her and make enough so you will pay her rate and feel good about it, no buyer’ remorse.
2. Work out a sugaring deal, explain to her that your business busy schedule requires that you optimize your time, Life work balance, and agree to a set monthly amount for a set number of dates a month, on a set schedule. The benefit for her is the security of the money, and having you as mentor, reliable life coach, and for you both the certainty of the OTC plus the anticipation and post-enjoyment of the memories.
3. Since you are describing her as a bit of sex kitten/pornstar wannabe, offer her to start with you a “personal” porn site, with you as a masked boyfriend, to protect your identity, but that you will be partners and split the busses/money 50/50
4. Since you said you like Latinas, and you live in San Francisco, just go to the Happiest Place on Earth (according to Krusty) TJ tuscl.net Or you can fly to Mexico City and enjoy the real world class Latinas and every other race and nationality of high end escorts/girls in the Pink Zone (Red light district/Xona Ros) mansions/bordellos.

In any case remember, you typically get what you pay for. I am sure some wealthy individuals in San Francisco will have no problem paying what you are paying and being happy about the deal.

The key her is to be happy at the end of the journey.

They may have carry what some would consider a “high price tag”, but the character, class, sex appeal, and feminine beauty of my ATFs friends were worth every penny and every second I shared with them OTC.

Good luck on your future with your ATF, be careful out there.

And remember Pics and Vids or it didn’t happen.

:D

I think you’d be hard-pressed to find anyone on-here paying more than $1K for OTC and very-few paying more than $500 unless one is talking about her spending a whole day w/ you and/or spending-the-night.

I think you are giving this chick too-much-credit thinking there are other rich-dudes that will give her that kinda $$$ - it’s possible but not very-common.

You’re obviously not comfortable w/ what you are paying her, most guys that work for a living and are not independently-wealthy still have to take the costs of things into account plus no-one like overpaying even if they can afford it.

It being SF and getting the type of service you are getting, one can argue a premium is in order – like I said probably not that many people pay more than $500/meet so $1K/meet is uncommon and a premium payment already that most SCers don’t pay.

Nobody likes to get a haircut in payment stripper or not – but you are way overpaying and she knows that – I can’t see too-many strippers turning down $1K/meet if they are up for OTC – I’d say if she “gets mad” at a $1K/meet then she’s not being fair to you b/c $1K/meet is more-than-fair and again something very-few strippers get IMO/IME especially on a repeat-basis vs a one-off.

If it was me, I def would renegotiate terms b/c $1K it’s not as if you are underpaying her – PLs often cut these girls too-much slack – it’s a 2-way-street – PLs should not be trying to underpay girls, but they shouldn’t allow themselves to get overcharged either - one shouldn’t try to take advantage of dancers but it’s just as wrong for them to take advantage of you – IMO if she “gets upset” at a $1K/meet payment then she’s likely just trying to manipulate-you and trying to make you feel like a bad-guy.

I’ve never SCed in SF so IDK what the going-rates are – I actually didn’t know that ITC-extras were possible there – the only 2 TUSCLers that come-up off the top of my head that SC there are “TFP” and “Subraman” – perhaps they can better fill you in w.r.t. what a fair OTC rate is although I don’t think “TFP” is into extras or OTC, and Subraman has a very “unique system” which is kinda hard for other PLs to duplicate but I get the sense he pays under $500 even for daylong OTCs.

Please disregard CJ Kent’s advice, he has never touched a woman before so it’s merely hypothetical

I don't go to SF frequently. Last time I was there, seemed like you couldn't swing a dead cat without hitting a place with a "massage" sign. I assumed that was why the strip clubs there seemed like a combo of clip joints for tourist, and nightclubs with tits for locals.

tryst.link

If anyone strikes your fancy, check them out on theeroticreview.com

It can be offensive: merriam-webster.com

A little late to the party, but I too believe that it's important that the rate for your first OTC be within budget, because I've never heard of a successful re-negotiation. And I understand why, even at $2500 you can ask to drop to $1000 which is still a nice chunk of change... psychologically for her, it's a blow to her pride, so even if she's seeing other guys for $1000, you've probably priced yourself out. Be smart about rates or pay the consequences at some point.

A couple of TUADLers on-here have-had good-results with the sugar-daddy website Seeking.com - but it can be a pandora's-box one one needs to know what they are doing - below are two TUSCL articles on the subject:

tuscl.net

tuscl.net

w.r.t. escort-sites, "The Erotic Review' is one that has been mentioned on TUSCL over-the-years.

theeroticreview.com

@alphapol: I will say that description you provided of her services does sound sweet. I assume that's a few hours worth with MSOG. Still, $2500........ lol

Why don't you start asking for more sessions for the same cost, paying at the end of the last session? So if you did an hour for $500 once a month, then increase it to twice a month for the same price. Just make sure you're willing to walk away from her or you won't have any leverage.

I'll start by saying I don't know shit about the cost of anything in SF or similar places. But, I've absolutely lowered prices on OTC visits many times. Not by more than half, but by say 20-25% or so. And not after 6 months of paying the higher rate regularly. If I'm paying above market, I usually mention on the first one that we'll do this rate this time but we'll take more about it if we're both happy after we finish. I'm also making concessions, mostly seeing them at non-prime times. When I've brought it up at the start, the conversation is usually easy. In some cases, they'll offer to lower the rate when I either tell them it'll be a little while before I see them again or I just don't call them for a while. When I do it, its usually because I've got something else that's either better at the same price or equal at a lower price. So I'm more than willing to not see them anymore. I've also asked girls to take less and had it go exactly how you'd expect, horribly. And I've said no to price increases and that's gone horribly. There's no tricks or shortcuts that I'm aware of. If you aren't willing to keep paying, you've got little to lose by asking though. Just be prepared for her to be upset and try to continue being polite and nice if she is.

And I'm just saying, but at $2500, you could probably fly some of the Pompano girls out to see you for the weekend. Or fly yourself here.

It's one thing to negotiate a small difference. But going down from $2500 isn't the same.

Dolfan, $2500 is insane even in SF. Prices have gone crazy in SF as you might imagine, but 1k will get you 95+% of girls on SA, which gets you to some real stunners.

I had a girl from Seeking ask me for $1500 once. She didn't appreciate my laughter at her offer.

For the record, I'll drop my name in the hat too. I myself am even also available for $2500.

I would attempt to morph into a sugaring arrangement at $2500 per month, not per fuck. Tell her the fee for service arrangement feels too transactional and you'd like to take her out to upscale dinners and spend so some extra non-sex time with her as well. If she says no, you're not out anything. The current plan is unsustainable. To put it in perspective, at $2500 a month you are paying most stripper's mortgage. Or buying her a Mercedes AMG GT roadster. Bet it would be hard for to say no if you framed it that way.

Does $2500 include a medical and dental plan? How about a 401K?

how did you and your fave arrive at this $2500 amount? did she quote you a higher amount before you negotiated to 2500 or was that 2500 the initial amount she offered and you immediately accepted? what was that higher amount?

Depends on what the rate AND terms you're re-negotiating to. Turn her to a sugar baby, instead of per meet, present it as an allowance. May or may not work, but strictly changing to lower offer rarely if ever will.

===> "Oh I know I’m being played, and I know I’m paying wayyy above market. But then I’ll drop $400-$500 on a new girl, have a lackluster nut, and tell myself it’s worth paying for the best. Maybe I’m in love lol."

You're still trying to rationalize it. Misrepresenting it as a binary choice in order to support your decisions is a sign of a weak mind. There's a lot of ground in between $400 and $2,500. You can have a fine time with a girl for well under $2,500, even in San Fran.

I have never broken the 4 figure barrier for a single encounter, not counting ancillary entertainment costs (dinner, drinks, hotel, a show, etc.). I came close with a girl on a recent trip, but she was utterly gorgeous with tremendous interaction skillz who made the encounter well worth it. But even still I might have overpaid and it's not something I'd do routinely.

This is what I like to call tuition. IMO 25, jack and others are 100% right by saying that once you've set the expectation with a girl, changing it is nearly impossible. In all my years mongering I've done it twice when I started out too high and while the girls accepted the lesser amounts, they were always angling to get back to the higher figure. It's just not worth the brain damage.

Thanks all for your feedback, insights, and laughs. I clicked through one of the escort links above and actually feel a little bit better about what I've been paying my ATF. While $2,500 for ITC extras is clearly insane, unbeknownst to me, it's not unheard of for escorts to charge something in that range when they spend the entire night with you. And to her credit, my ATF has spent the entire night with me the vast majority of the time when doing OTC, with MSOG of course. So there's that at least. Sounds like I could still do a lot better, and I like the idea of trying to turn this from a per encounter model into a subscription model. We all know tech companies love those subscription models, and hopefully my ATF does too.

@rattdog: Like with many bad decisions, it started with a lot of alcohol. But I do remember the exact moment I agreed to that $2,500 number. For context, I had seen this 10/10 girl in my regular SC a few times prior, but she never struck me as an extras girl because she was very new (first month), very young, somewhat innocent looking, and, most tellingly, low mileage with LDs. But on this night I decided to take her up to a VIP room since we had been chatting for over two hours and that was my way of compensating her for time (I honestly forgot to tip her along the way and never bought any dances; it's amazing that she stuck around to talk for that long just to talk).

When we got up to the VIP room, she for the first time ever insinuated that she was willing to do more, and proceeded to stick my finger all the way down her throat, with zero gag reflex, while doing some amazing trick with her tongue piercing. And after a few seconds of that, she did this thing where she wiped away a tear that had formed, causing her eyeliner to run. I don't know why, but that realllly turned me on. She then named her price, and I immediately said yes.

Hey alphapol, if you felt like what you spent was worth it at the time just go with that. Explain all the details if you want, but you got your point across without needing to. You're actually not getting trolled that much considering what usually happens on the TUSCL forums, this board is just used to talking in smaller dollars for P4P. It's cool that you're willing to share your experience.

Alpha how old er ya?

"DT'ing" as you put it can cause permanent long term damage to the throat and may eventually lead to dysphagia (inability to swallow). Health officials cover this up and young women and gay men are encouraged by pop culture and the porn industry to engage in this potentially harmful act.

More effort to warn young women and gay men of the potential harm should be made. There's a reason that this was a rare behavior until very recently. Clearly the throat is not designed to expand to accommodate large objects in this manner.

BTW not for nothing I made thread recently about who is fucking this game up. Case in point, Case and fucking point.

So Dave "just the tip" Anderson thinks deep throat BJ's cause permanent damage to the esophagus resulting in dysphagia and the reason there is no scientific evidence to support this theory is because of a conspiracy by "health officials" to cover it up.

Hmm, Sounds like the excuse he gives to the gay dudes at the QAnon meetings to explain his lack of skill.

I don't think they have to worry about large objects being jn he'd throat

@shadowcat: ITC vs OTC price depends on the club rates and room costs. ITC at well known nearly brothel clubs, OTC is generally far more expensive. At typical clubs with a cover charge, possible valet, two drink minimum and dance room fees OTC is typically much cheaper, often nearly half the price.

2500 for an all night BB MSOG along with having convincing GFE with an IG 10 doesn't sound that outrageous.

I would struggle to find that regardless of how much money I was willing to pay

@desert: If we refused to discuss a topic just because it was started by a new troll account, we'd have far less to discuss. Overall the topic is a good one IMO regardless of who started it.

The $2500’rate is something that would get you at least an hour or a few with famous pornstars or IG models. The ones that have millions of fans and followers on sites like Instagram and pornhub

Paying that for a regular stripper you are likely being hustled... one of the strippers here also quoted 1-2k but it was a testing the waters thing

Paying 2k for anyone would make me concerned with missing out massively. You could get any famous pornstar, probably any famous IG model at that price

Eros usually has seriously hot women on there for $400+ an hour

The thing is its scary meeting someone from eros, many times they ask you to send photo id and personal info, and at strip clubs you have more familiarity with the strippers and more trust due to meeting in person. Escorts won’t meet in public unless you pay first

^ Doubtful an escort would do BB and be GFE. Plus, a fine escort would want thousands for overnight. Strippers can at least give an illusion of low volume. Escorts can't.

2500 for what the OP described is on the high end but I would be willing to pay it if it truly comes as described. Ten, convincing GFE, all night.

I'll add - in all the decades I've been clubbing I've only seen a few dancers I would consider a perfect ten. None were remotely interested in doing OTC and gave marginal ld's.

Get some digits of girls you like in FL and do as Dolfan said. Fly them out to SF a weekend or 4 a month. It’ll still be cheaper.

Why would an escort not do BB and gfe? I don’t understand why both would be hard to find Yes escorts will likely do thousands for overnight... But i was saying at $1000+ for an hour, that’s enough for basically any famous pornstar or IG model. The ones with millions of followers.

Many pornstars have posted on eros and charge around $1000+ an hour. Some are even less, I think carmela clutch and rose monroe were $600 per hour

What is the purpose of overnight stay? Yourr paying them to sleep with you, or is it an all night sex session? I guess it depends on the guys wants, but i wouldn’t pay someone for sleeping with me.

^I could be wrong, but I would guess you haven't spent much time with escorts.

^ Regarding sirachabob, look at this guy's posting history. His weird trolling gimmick is asking a never-ending series of increasingly inane questions to string people along.

If you think I'm wrong, then keep indulging him. But I don't believe I'm wrong.

I am interested in the SA website mentioned before. ALso very curious on that special method someone mentioned earlier that Subraman or someone was using... how does that work

I did have a girl I had a deal with on the higher side. I think it was 500. She kept asking me about meeting up more often and I told her it wasn’t something I could do frequently at that price point. She offered 350 and we started meeting more. It can happen. Be careful how you frame it.

Ishmael there is no such thing as a “weird trolling gimmick”

There is no way to troll via asking questions.

Trolling involves starting drama, taking shots at people, riling people up

I have seen you in a multitude of threads accusing random people of being trolls and its always a different excuse. Sometimes you say theyre trolling because theyre yelling, sometimes it’s because theyre dumb, sometimes like my case you say it’s because of “inane questions”

What youre doing is actually trolling, literally. Its impossible to troll via asking questions because they’re literally questions... if you dont know the answer you literally dont have to answer

If i wanted to troll, or if anyone wanted to, that would involve making fun of people, or their views, profile pics, behavior, something like that. Or posting spam and tons of nonsense, long posts to get people to read through walls of text

So no, if you read and comprehend what I said earlier, its just not trolling, its literally impossible for it to be.

@Siracha:"There is no way to troll via asking questions."

I disagree. One of my friends (a bit of a creep, but a pal nonetheless) trolled "how to" sites for years by asking the stupidest question he could, and then seeing how mad he could make people, and specifically how LONG he could keep the thread going before people gave up in exasperation. This was a strange little competitive game he played with himself and some other troll buddies. It doesn't have to involve "starting drama, taking shots at people, riling people up".

FWIW I'm not saying you ARE a troll or are trolling. I personally like to use questions to get people to explain themselves, realize their error, or convince me of their position. This is a form of the Socratic method. A question to ask oneself in this context is whether the questioned individual is annoyed because you are challenging their assumptions, or because you are being pedantic or annoying.

I see, but the thing about people giving up in exasperation deosnt make sense. People can continue to have discussions of their own. Like this thread has 10+ different conversations going on amongst different people at any one moment.

in this case, he was asking a pointedly dumb question, for example about some basic sex health or how to use a microwave, and then just asking more leading questions following each person's angry response. They would get mad about how stupid he was, criticize him, make snide remarks, or sometimes "have mercy" and answer the question. Which was always followed by another question to try and get it to keep going. you know how tetra gives money to charity for every line or comment or whatever people say in certain threads? it was like my buddy was getting paid for every response... he'd do whatever he could to keep it going. Sick, I know. eventually, people would drop it, I think his record was 20 responses. Also, in this case, there would only be a few people as it was a general forum. on tuscl, people pile on and do have 10+ conversations so I agree it's a little different.

This all seems very trollish to me. OP's sole review is of Gold Club San Francisco posted a week ago. OP's description of girl in GC review is same as this ITC extras / OTC post. OP's review says he got BBBJ cum on tits in private room and that extras here are typically $500-$1K. GC is non-extras club. Its 6 rooms are dark glass front that can see through if staring intently. Of all the rooms, only 2 are candidates for such extras happening, if at all. OP review says he paid bouncer $350 for privacy - I suppose that's possible, $350 is a lot of money. Desertscrub's response to review was "BS OF THE DAY!!! ALL IN COMPLETE BS!!!" I'll defer to scrubster on that one, he's probably right.

Every girl wants that deal. But if you can't afford it walk away.

I didn't identify it as a potentially fraudulent premise...until he said they both get tested prior to each meeting. That is absurd. You're what...going to your primary care physician 4-6x a month and asking for a complete STD panel?

^ I didn't see where he stated he was seeing her that many times per month. You don't have to go to your doctor every time you want an STD panel. You can go to a local clinic or use an online service where you pay for a full panel, go to a lab to get your blood drawn, and then check the results online. Several guys here have mentioned the online services before, usually in relation to sugaring or routine checks.

If he can afford $2500 per session with a dancer, then he can afford multiple STD panels (and so can she, obviously).

Who knows if this guy is for real? But if he wants to "troll" TUSCL questions and scenarios that are actually on-topic relevant to strip clubbing, then I say let him. Unless you're in the mood for another thread about Ukraine...

I'm not going to bother addressing the whole trolling/lying thing. You don't have to believe me, and I really don't care.

I'll mention/respond to a few things though:

@ ilbbaicnl: Thanks for introducing me to tryst.link and theeroticreview.com. This was my first time using a website to source a SW (for an outcall "nuru" massage GFE), and it went pretty well. She wasn't exactly like her pictures suggested, but it was a good time and, most importantly, she wasn't an undercover cop lol. The most surprising thing about the encounter was that she offered FS without a cover (no way), but wouldn't let me CIM hah. Cognitive dissonance at its finest. I'm not sure I'd do this kind of thing again, but for anyone else completely new to this kind of thing, I found this Reddit post helpful: reddit.com

@ rl27: Agreed. In my area I've found that OTC is generally cheaper than ITC, and the girls like it because they don't have to worry about tipping out, kickbacks, taxes, etc. If they are to be believed, the girls at my go-to SC in SF (Gold Club) say they only keep something like 20% of the base rates for rooms, everything else goes to the club. Insane. Has to do with their recent conversion from 1099 contractors to W-2 employees.

@ sirachabob: I assumed famous porn stars would cost even more, so good to know it's an option, but probably not for me. I don't know about others, but I do like the thrill of the hunt trying to convert a stripper into more whether ITC or OTC. You probably don't get that same feeling when banging a porn star in a straight P4P transaction. Point taken about the opportunity cost though, and totally agree with you on the risk of using Tryst/Eros, which I just learned about first hand.

Re: "What is the purpose of overnight stay? Yourr paying them to sleep with you, or is it an all night sex session? I guess it depends on the guys wants, but i wouldn’t pay someone for sleeping with me." For me, it's part of the GFE, with the girl falling asleep next to you for the night vs. immediately showering and bolting after you nut. And it's a great way to wake up in the morning too. To each his own.

@ DeclineToState: GC is certainly not a brothel-like SC, but if you don't think extras can be had by greasing the security guy and drink girl, when they have rooms there with closed doors and no cameras, I don't know what to tell you. Hell, I've gotten extras in the room adjacent to the front staircase that every walks by, but the ones at the end of the hall are certainly ideal. That being said, I'd say less than 25% of the girls at GC offer extras, so you just have to feel each girl out. And to be clear, ITC FS is very hard to get at GC, it's mostly just HJs/BJs.

@ Leanard313: If you're on the Sutter Health network, you can request an STD panel through the MyChart app and just show up at your nearest lab without an appointment. It's pretty convenient. And I think Quest even offers at-home STD testing kits. I'm only seeing this girl about twice a month, so getting tested every other week or so isn't bad, and IMO totally worth it for the peace of mind.

One would assume the San Francisco area would be a place where STD testing is most prevalent and accessibile given it has traditionally by far had the largest homosexual community and probably ground-zero during the AIDS epidemic back in the 80s not to mention the free-love-movement prior to that.

Over the years we've had our fair-share of trolls on-here even dudes passing as dancers to troll us - due to past-history is why there's at times doubt when a newbie shows-up with a story that us a bit different than the avg PL-experience.

Having said this often times when TUSCLers think someone is a troll it turns out they are not and we've had some "eccentric characters" on-here in the past that many TUSCLers were sure were trolls and it turned-out they were not.

I'll take a new troll who posts topical stuff any day over the ridiculous off topic trolling done by the more aged troll personas on here.

Holy fucking shit! Even when I was paying her the most, that would have been worth a couple of months of OTC meetups with my ATF. The only time I've ever spent that much at once was for a weekend with a pair of dancers in Buffalo.

Anyways, I'll echo what others have said about the chance of actually reducing your costs and maintaining your expected level of service, i.e. not bloody likely. Good luck to you, though.

Holy shit alphapol. Are you in east bay? I need to help you out son.

Ok #1 have you hit up Amps in southbay? You need to visit at least 3 of those (bunnygirlsclub kgirlsacademy or whatever) too get you some $260 level experiences so you can calibrate.

Regarding GC in sf- it may behoove you to try to spend small $$ on a girl in there, make a connection, and recalibrate your OTC rate; again I would suspect $5 would get you 50% success rate. GC is also my primary club but I'm there to maybe get a few dances and a few drinks and shoot the shit with some hotties and get out under $100, not blow the bank..

Oh one more point - if you have a passport and freedom to travel, you should also give yourself a budget of uh, 1k, fly to San Diego, walk across land crossing to Tijuana, grab the waiting limo to Hong Kong, get a room, and bang 5-10 8+ latinas, eat some amazing tacos and thank me later. You need to calibrate man...