Lowering Your OTC Rate
Sunday, March 27, 2022 5:34 PM
Fellow mongers, I could use some advice. I've been doing ITC extras for several years now, but recently started doing OTC for the first time with my ATF. However, I got off on the wrong foot with this girl by dramatically overpaying for ITC extras. And when we started to OTC, being the PL that I am, continued to pay that same inflated rate. I've justified it because I can afford it, and this girl really is my ATF: early 20s, latina, 5'4", good conversationalist, gorgeous face, fit, perfect natural Cs (maybe Ds), no tats, no gag reflex DTing with a tongue ring, and literally the tightest pussy I've ever felt. But in looking back at my bank statements, the costs are really starting to get out of hand and it's objectively just not a good value. I hate to admit it, but we're talking tens of thousands over the last six months or so.
Has anyone successfully navigated an OTC rate reduction? Or is my only recourse here reducing frequency of visits? I'd like to keep it going, but I can understand how any rate reduction request probably wouldn't land well with her.
Has anyone successfully navigated an OTC rate reduction? Or is my only recourse here reducing frequency of visits? I'd like to keep it going, but I can understand how any rate reduction request probably wouldn't land well with her.
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89 comments
Less sessions is the best you can do.
Smarter move would be to find another fave and use the knowledge you’ve gained to start at a more realistic price point.
@ drewcarypnw, $2.5k.
That’s an insane amount to pay per meet. I’m fairly well off but I’ve never spent that kind of cash on any hooker.
And you're probably fucked trying to fish in the same pond if you're looking to replace her.
I’m flying out to Miami on business tomorrow, extended my trip by a week just to monger, and hope to get some perspective on how bad I’m getting screwed so I can more easily let this girl go.
If you don't want to pay anymore just drop her and get a cheaper hooker.
WRT negotiating down, I doubt it. But since you're probably going to drop her if the costs don't come down, you may as well try to negotiate down before you split. It's very unlikely that she's got anyone else paying her that kind of money for OTC, so she may recognize that 1/2 of what you've been giving her is still 2x of what anyone else will giver her.
Trying keeping your head still, hands back, stay balanced and drive thru the ball
You seem to be assuming she does OTC with others for much less. I'm not so sure that's true. If you tell her she's not worth what you're paying, that would likely go over as well as them telling you at your job they thought you were overpaid. Everyone has their pride. Just tell her you have to cut back because of other financial obligations. At least at first, wait to see if she offers you a break.
With my OTC ATF, I initially paid $800 (in the Mid West). You could say she was comparable to Cardi B looks-wise. But she tended to be catty, played games trying to see how little she could get away with doing for me. So I pled poor, said I could only do $600. She accepted it, but was always resentful. It all got too ugly eventually, I had to stop seeing her.
It really depends on your relationship to her and whether or not you think you can open the topic and not spoil the whole thing. I mean, even if you were able to get down to $1,500, you're still paying a lot but at least saving $1,000 per visit.
@twentyfive: Will do. Pretty excited about the trip since latinas are my thing. Will be hitting up Tootsie's, Dean's Gold, and the Pompano big-3.
@wld4tatas: Yeah, that's pretty much what I've decided to do. Would rather see her half the time and continue to have great experiences vs. having her resent me and cut back on services.
@ drewcareypnw: Guess it's all relative. Being in San Francisco, you can make 7 figures and feel like you're scraping by sometimes, especially when a lot of the people you know have had 8-9 figure liquidity events and retired in their mid-30s. But this isn't really about the absolute dollars involved; I'm more concerned with getting good relative value.
@motorhead: Outside the Club rate. How much it takes to have her go on a date in the real world, then take her back to your place.
@ilbbaicnl: San Francisco. Wasn't aware of any good SCs in the East Bay? SJ is garbage. Too lazy to drive to Sac.
This girl is a 10, working in SF, so who knows. I've heard crazy stories about what some girls make. $10k-$25k for single visits with whales, while being flown private to their vacation homes. Hell, the high mileage >40 year old SC MILFs usually start by asking $1k for ITC BJs.
Thanks for the feedback. I don't want to make her resentful, that's the kiss of death.
@Muddy: I live in San Francisco, I only own EVs lol.
also can she able to print out a receipt so maybe you can use that as a tax write off?
listen to the guys here - get some new faves - you'll still should be able to get the same quality of a girl but in larger quantities.
Have you tried escorts and "massage"? Pretty sure that's available in the East Bay.
I think I save a lot of money cause a pretty face to me just has to be non-RBF.
@ iibbaicnl: Makes sense, but then you have high COL places like Miami where the rates are much more reasonable. Supply and demand, like everything.
Never done escorts, mostly because I don't know where to look, but also paranoid about LE in my area. I'll do massages while traveling to friendly places (Puerto Vallarta, Montreal, etc.). Don't know if there's much of a scene close to home.
Wasn't saying saying my ATF is a piece of trash, but she is a whore be definition. I actually like her a lot as a person.
@CandymanOfProvidence: ITPL?
Merb.cc
Terb.cc
I will play along and answer your questions:
Q: Has anyone successfully navigated an OTC rate reduction?
A: YES, someone in the world of fiction that is TUSCL has. Some even have gone from P4P, to dating a stripper and falling in love and having a storybook romance and wedding and lived happily ever after…
Q: Or is my only recourse here reducing frequency of visits?
A: NO; you have many other options, it is entirely up to you.
1. Make a lot more money, “FUCK IT” kind of money, because money can buy you the crazy happiness you have with her and make enough so you will pay her rate and feel good about it, no buyer’ remorse.
2. Work out a sugaring deal, explain to her that your business busy schedule requires that you optimize your time, Life work balance, and agree to a set monthly amount for a set number of dates a month, on a set schedule. The benefit for her is the security of the money, and having you as mentor, reliable life coach, and for you both the certainty of the OTC plus the anticipation and post-enjoyment of the memories.
3. Since you are describing her as a bit of sex kitten/pornstar wannabe, offer her to start with you a “personal” porn site, with you as a masked boyfriend, to protect your identity, but that you will be partners and split the busses/money 50/50
4. Since you said you like Latinas, and you live in San Francisco, just go to the Happiest Place on Earth (according to Krusty) TJ
https://tuscl.net/photo.php?id=1401
Or you can fly to Mexico City and enjoy the real world class Latinas and every other race and nationality of high end escorts/girls in the Pink Zone (Red light district/Xona Ros) mansions/bordellos.
In any case remember, you typically get what you pay for. I am sure some wealthy individuals in San Francisco will have no problem paying what you are paying and being happy about the deal.
The key her is to be happy at the end of the journey.
They may have carry what some would consider a “high price tag”, but the character, class, sex appeal, and feminine beauty of my ATFs friends were worth every penny and every second I shared with them OTC.
Good luck on your future with your ATF, be careful out there.
And remember Pics and Vids or it didn’t happen.
:D
I think you are giving this chick too-much-credit thinking there are other rich-dudes that will give her that kinda $$$ - it’s possible but not very-common.
You’re obviously not comfortable w/ what you are paying her, most guys that work for a living and are not independently-wealthy still have to take the costs of things into account plus no-one like overpaying even if they can afford it.
It being SF and getting the type of service you are getting, one can argue a premium is in order – like I said probably not that many people pay more than $500/meet so $1K/meet is uncommon and a premium payment already that most SCers don’t pay.
Nobody likes to get a haircut in payment stripper or not – but you are way overpaying and she knows that – I can’t see too-many strippers turning down $1K/meet if they are up for OTC – I’d say if she “gets mad” at a $1K/meet then she’s not being fair to you b/c $1K/meet is more-than-fair and again something very-few strippers get IMO/IME especially on a repeat-basis vs a one-off.
If it was me, I def would renegotiate terms b/c $1K it’s not as if you are underpaying her – PLs often cut these girls too-much slack – it’s a 2-way-street – PLs should not be trying to underpay girls, but they shouldn’t allow themselves to get overcharged either - one shouldn’t try to take advantage of dancers but it’s just as wrong for them to take advantage of you – IMO if she “gets upset” at a $1K/meet payment then she’s likely just trying to manipulate-you and trying to make you feel like a bad-guy.
I’ve never SCed in SF so IDK what the going-rates are – I actually didn’t know that ITC-extras were possible there – the only 2 TUSCLers that come-up off the top of my head that SC there are “TFP” and “Subraman” – perhaps they can better fill you in w.r.t. what a fair OTC rate is although I don’t think “TFP” is into extras or OTC, and Subraman has a very “unique system” which is kinda hard for other PLs to duplicate but I get the sense he pays under $500 even for daylong OTCs.
https://tryst.link/search?loc=37.77493%2…
If anyone strikes your fancy, check them out on https://www.theeroticreview.com/
https://tuscl.net/member-articles.php?id…
https://tuscl.net/article.php?id=43211
w.r.t. escort-sites, "The Erotic Review' is one that has been mentioned on TUSCL over-the-years.
https://www.theeroticreview.com/memberla…
And I'm just saying, but at $2500, you could probably fly some of the Pompano girls out to see you for the weekend. Or fly yourself here.
You're still trying to rationalize it. Misrepresenting it as a binary choice in order to support your decisions is a sign of a weak mind. There's a lot of ground in between $400 and $2,500. You can have a fine time with a girl for well under $2,500, even in San Fran.
I have never broken the 4 figure barrier for a single encounter, not counting ancillary entertainment costs (dinner, drinks, hotel, a show, etc.). I came close with a girl on a recent trip, but she was utterly gorgeous with tremendous interaction skillz who made the encounter well worth it. But even still I might have overpaid and it's not something I'd do routinely.
This is what I like to call tuition. IMO 25, jack and others are 100% right by saying that once you've set the expectation with a girl, changing it is nearly impossible. In all my years mongering I've done it twice when I started out too high and while the girls accepted the lesser amounts, they were always angling to get back to the higher figure. It's just not worth the brain damage.
@rattdog: Like with many bad decisions, it started with a lot of alcohol. But I do remember the exact moment I agreed to that $2,500 number. For context, I had seen this 10/10 girl in my regular SC a few times prior, but she never struck me as an extras girl because she was very new (first month), very young, somewhat innocent looking, and, most tellingly, low mileage with LDs. But on this night I decided to take her up to a VIP room since we had been chatting for over two hours and that was my way of compensating her for time (I honestly forgot to tip her along the way and never bought any dances; it's amazing that she stuck around to talk for that long just to talk).
When we got up to the VIP room, she for the first time ever insinuated that she was willing to do more, and proceeded to stick my finger all the way down her throat, with zero gag reflex, while doing some amazing trick with her tongue piercing. And after a few seconds of that, she did this thing where she wiped away a tear that had formed, causing her eyeliner to run. I don't know why, but that realllly turned me on. She then named her price, and I immediately said yes.
More effort to warn young women and gay men of the potential harm should be made. There's a reason that this was a rare behavior until very recently. Clearly the throat is not designed to expand to accommodate large objects in this manner.
Hmm, Sounds like the excuse he gives to the gay dudes at the QAnon meetings to explain his lack of skill.
I would struggle to find that regardless of how much money I was willing to pay
Paying that for a regular stripper you are likely being hustled... one of the strippers here also quoted 1-2k but it was a testing the waters thing
Paying 2k for anyone would make me concerned with missing out massively. You could get any famous pornstar, probably any famous IG model at that price
Eros usually has seriously hot women on there for $400+ an hour
The thing is its scary meeting someone from eros, many times they ask you to send photo id and personal info, and at strip clubs you have more familiarity with the strippers and more trust due to meeting in person. Escorts won’t meet in public unless you pay first
2500 for what the OP described is on the high end but I would be willing to pay it if it truly comes as described. Ten, convincing GFE, all night.
Yes escorts will likely do thousands for overnight...
But i was saying at $1000+ for an hour, that’s enough for basically any famous pornstar or IG model. The ones with millions of followers.
Many pornstars have posted on eros and charge around $1000+ an hour. Some are even less, I think carmela clutch and rose monroe were $600 per hour
What is the purpose of overnight stay? Yourr paying them to sleep with you, or is it an all night sex session? I guess it depends on the guys wants, but i wouldn’t pay someone for sleeping with me.
If you think I'm wrong, then keep indulging him. But I don't believe I'm wrong.
There is no way to troll via asking questions.
Trolling involves starting drama, taking shots at people, riling people up
I have seen you in a multitude of threads accusing random people of being trolls and its always a different excuse. Sometimes you say theyre trolling because theyre yelling, sometimes it’s because theyre dumb, sometimes like my case you say it’s because of “inane questions”
What youre doing is actually trolling, literally. Its impossible to troll via asking questions because they’re literally questions... if you dont know the answer you literally dont have to answer
So no, if you read and comprehend what I said earlier, its just not trolling, its literally impossible for it to be.
I disagree. One of my friends (a bit of a creep, but a pal nonetheless) trolled "how to" sites for years by asking the stupidest question he could, and then seeing how mad he could make people, and specifically how LONG he could keep the thread going before people gave up in exasperation. This was a strange little competitive game he played with himself and some other troll buddies. It doesn't have to involve "starting drama, taking shots at people, riling people up".
FWIW I'm not saying you ARE a troll or are trolling. I personally like to use questions to get people to explain themselves, realize their error, or convince me of their position. This is a form of the Socratic method. A question to ask oneself in this context is whether the questioned individual is annoyed because you are challenging their assumptions, or because you are being pedantic or annoying.
OP's sole review is of Gold Club San Francisco posted a week ago. OP's description of girl in GC review is same as this ITC extras / OTC post.
OP's review says he got BBBJ cum on tits in private room and that extras here are typically $500-$1K. GC is non-extras club. Its 6 rooms are dark glass front that can see through if staring intently. Of all the rooms, only 2 are candidates for such extras happening, if at all. OP review says he paid bouncer $350 for privacy - I suppose that's possible, $350 is a lot of money.
Desertscrub's response to review was "BS OF THE DAY!!! ALL IN COMPLETE BS!!!" I'll defer to scrubster on that one, he's probably right.
If he can afford $2500 per session with a dancer, then he can afford multiple STD panels (and so can she, obviously).
Who knows if this guy is for real? But if he wants to "troll" TUSCL questions and scenarios that are actually on-topic relevant to strip clubbing, then I say let him. Unless you're in the mood for another thread about Ukraine...
I'll mention/respond to a few things though:
@ ilbbaicnl: Thanks for introducing me to tryst.link and www.theeroticreview.com. This was my first time using a website to source a SW (for an outcall "nuru" massage GFE), and it went pretty well. She wasn't exactly like her pictures suggested, but it was a good time and, most importantly, she wasn't an undercover cop lol. The most surprising thing about the encounter was that she offered FS without a cover (no way), but wouldn't let me CIM hah. Cognitive dissonance at its finest. I'm not sure I'd do this kind of thing again, but for anyone else completely new to this kind of thing, I found this Reddit post helpful: https://www.reddit.com/r/SexWorkers/comm…
@ rl27: Agreed. In my area I've found that OTC is generally cheaper than ITC, and the girls like it because they don't have to worry about tipping out, kickbacks, taxes, etc. If they are to be believed, the girls at my go-to SC in SF (Gold Club) say they only keep something like 20% of the base rates for rooms, everything else goes to the club. Insane. Has to do with their recent conversion from 1099 contractors to W-2 employees.
@ sirachabob: I assumed famous porn stars would cost even more, so good to know it's an option, but probably not for me. I don't know about others, but I do like the thrill of the hunt trying to convert a stripper into more whether ITC or OTC. You probably don't get that same feeling when banging a porn star in a straight P4P transaction. Point taken about the opportunity cost though, and totally agree with you on the risk of using Tryst/Eros, which I just learned about first hand.
Re: "What is the purpose of overnight stay? Yourr paying them to sleep with you, or is it an all night sex session? I guess it depends on the guys wants, but i wouldn’t pay someone for sleeping with me." For me, it's part of the GFE, with the girl falling asleep next to you for the night vs. immediately showering and bolting after you nut. And it's a great way to wake up in the morning too. To each his own.
@ DeclineToState: GC is certainly not a brothel-like SC, but if you don't think extras can be had by greasing the security guy and drink girl, when they have rooms there with closed doors and no cameras, I don't know what to tell you. Hell, I've gotten extras in the room adjacent to the front staircase that every walks by, but the ones at the end of the hall are certainly ideal. That being said, I'd say less than 25% of the girls at GC offer extras, so you just have to feel each girl out. And to be clear, ITC FS is very hard to get at GC, it's mostly just HJs/BJs.
@ Leanard313: If you're on the Sutter Health network, you can request an STD panel through the MyChart app and just show up at your nearest lab without an appointment. It's pretty convenient. And I think Quest even offers at-home STD testing kits. I'm only seeing this girl about twice a month, so getting tested every other week or so isn't bad, and IMO totally worth it for the peace of mind.
Having said this often times when TUSCLers think someone is a troll it turns out they are not and we've had some "eccentric characters" on-here in the past that many TUSCLers were sure were trolls and it turned-out they were not.
Anyways, I'll echo what others have said about the chance of actually reducing your costs <em>and</em> maintaining your expected level of service, i.e. not bloody likely. Good luck to you, though.
Ok #1 have you hit up Amps in southbay? You need to visit at least 3 of those (bunnygirlsclub kgirlsacademy or whatever) too get you some $260 level experiences so you can calibrate.
Regarding GC in sf- it may behoove you to try to spend small $$ on a girl in there, make a connection, and recalibrate your OTC rate; again I would suspect $5 would get you 50% success rate. GC is also my primary club but I'm there to maybe get a few dances and a few drinks and shoot the shit with some hotties and get out under $100, not blow the bank..