Oh boy. I flew Southwst from San Diego to Tampa on Friday. I guess I just missed this mess. I would have been stranded in San Diego and would have had to go back to Tijuana for the weekend. Scary thing for me is that I'm supposed to get on another Southwest plane on Wednesday.
I predict soon the vaccine mandates will be required to go anywhere at all in public. In particular, when you go to leave, because you want out, the first thing when you get to the airport will be proof of vaccination.
My sister in law's flight to Oregon (from AZ) was canx yesterday. She had an event she was going to and needed to get there by a certain day. Airports don't hit us with enough fees and make us jump through enough hoops already! Now this!
My brother was telling me about it yesterday I was like what the Hell I didn't know there were weather problems in OR, there certainly isn't here. He was telling me about the bs going on with the staffing shortages and how it had nothing to do with weather. She did make it (same day) after a several hour delay and from what I heard she was one of the "lucky" ones.
Just saw a story on the news about it as well. Very, very long lines for Southwest Airlines (hour and a half and then no resolution once making it to the counter) and flights being rescheduled 3 days out. Absolutely ridiculous.
I don't subscribe to WSJ so I can't read the story you linked to, but none of the reports I have seen elsewhere blame it on anything related to vaccine mandates. All the stories I read say it started with weather delays on Fri/Sat and was made worse by heavy military flight loads and ultimately a massive issue for Southwest because they are understaffed and overbooked so when a few planes get delayed it cascades into a major issue. I suppose the vaccine mandates could factor into being understaffed and overbooked but the bigger issue seems to be solely on Southwest since they had to cancel 28% of their flights while no other airline had to cancel more than 5%. If lousy companies like Spirit and Allegiant can get through the issue so much better than Southwest I would blame it on Southwest not vaccine mandates
Per [view link] the pilot's union that is fighting the vaccine mandate said the mandate had nothing to do with the cancelations.
"The Southwest Airlines Pilots Association, which filed a motion for a temporary restraining order against the airline's COVID-19 vaccine mandate, issued a statement clarifying that it had no connection to the cancellations and delays.
"SWAPA is aware of operational difficulties affecting Southwest Airlines today due to a number of issues, but we can say with confidence that our Pilots are not participating in any official or unofficial job actions," the organization said in a statement Saturday. "Our Pilots will continue to overcome SWA management’s poor planning, as well as any external operational challenges, and remain the most productive Pilots in the world."
Per [view link] the airline's route network has been causing these types of issues for months.
"However, Henry H. Harteveldt, president and travel industry analyst at The Atmosphere Research Group, based in San Francisco, points to other causes for the cancellations.
First, he says Southwest has scheduled more flights than it can handle, a problem that started in June. He also noted that Southwest operates what's known as a point-to-point route network, and when a delay occurs, it "cascades" along the remaining flight segments. That's because, for example, a Southwest flight departing Fort Lauderdale, Florida, for the airline's home base of Dallas may make multiple stops along the way."
Direct quote from the OPs WSJ link:
"The problems started Friday evening, when severe weather in Florida prompted the Federal Aviation Administration to impose an air-traffic-management program, resulting in a large number of cancellations and leaving customers and crew members out of place, an airline spokesperson said Saturday."
The WSJ article doesn't mention any vaccine-mandate protest.
re:
"SWAPA is aware of operational difficulties affecting Southwest Airlines today due to a number of issues, but we can say with confidence that our Pilots are not participating in any official or unofficial job actions," the organization said in a statement Saturday. "Our Pilots will continue to overcome SWA management’s poor planning, as well as any external operational challenges, and remain the most productive Pilots in the world."
A supposed SWA pilot explains that as:
"Essentially, the union cannot organize or even acknowledge the sickout, because doing so would make it an illegal job action."
[view link]
I posted with the title a "?" because you can't take any immediate claims to be truthful. It's certainly wasn't exclusively the weather that was poor for only a few hours on Friday afternoon as stated by the FAA so it's either a work slowdown or mismanagement.
Southwest cancelled 5X as many flights as any other airlines, and the vaccine mandates don't only apply to South West, calling this vaccine related is more than slightly paranoid.
Jes Sayin
"it's either a work slowdown or mismanagement"
It is mismanagement plain and simple. Southwest has had issues before because of the same situation. With their current staffing and the way they route their planes leaves no slack in the system. That's why a short period of bad weather on Friday that caused very little disruption to other airlines cascaded into a multi day issue that is still going on on Monday.
If Southwest doesn't make some serious changes they are going to mismanage themselves right out of business. It has absolutely nothing to do with the vaccine mandate or an imaginary slowdown by their pilots. They are understaffed and don't have as many planes as they need. That is why each of the past couple of months they have announced flight routes/times that are no longer being offered going forward.
By the way yahtzee74, posting a conspiracy theorist's blog that starts out by saying that they are paraphrasing what they were told by one random pilot to support your theory doesn't help. Especially when that same post admits that with some of what he is reporting that (please note, I have not checked this, though it seems reasonable).
You post such stupid shit, @SkiBirther. No matter what the topic, you find a way to bring up your own mindless bigotry and xenophobia into the discussion. BTW, a Lebanese immigrant working at Scripps Research in San Diego won the Nobel Prize in Medicine a few days ago.
Back on topic, I've had plenty of trouble with Southwest lately. Trip home from Hobby Houston, the ventilation system was pumping out what seemed like 125-degree heat. Everyone near me was freaking out as we were landing. That and constant delays; Southwest is very screwed up.
This is how MAGA misinformation and fake news works...
We're going to be seeing A LOT of it.
Anything and everything blamed on the vaccine mandate. Just keep repeating the lie enough and people will start to believe it.
Sorry Yahtzee - it was a good try - but you were wrong.
The issues with Southwest have been explained already, and it was not because of vaccine mandates.
I agree - it would have been miserable to be caught in those delays.
Southwest canceled 2000 flights over the last 3 days. That’s a fuck ton. It’s not easily explained by weather. Or vaccine sick outs either. Nobody can say for certain. The media is still digging on this and I think we’ll hear more. One of the other causes I heard was that they offered early retirement and buyouts to a lot of employees including pilots in 2020. They had more than 61k employees and now have 54k. They are trying to hire new people but it takes a while to get qualified for each particular jet (southwest solely flies 737s so it should help) and if they are hiring away pilots from other airlines where they fly other models, it will be slow to ramp up. Not sure if this weekend was a tipping point, but it had been building as my coworkers and my flights were being canceled more often over the last 12 months.
Whether you believe all these flights were cancelled because of vaccine walk out, weather or other factors, the saddest part is almost all of us do not trust most news sources and everyone thinks there’s a conspiracy.
I can’t remember when it happened but there was a time when i believed something when it was “in the news.”
"By the way yahtzee74, posting a conspiracy theorist's blog... to support your theory doesn't help."
It's not my theory and I don't have an opinion one way or the other. I just posted what other people were claiming.
Yahtzee74, that Alex Berenson article you linked to mentions that SWA may be reluctant to stand up to the Biden administration on the mandates because they received 25 billion dollars in payroll support and another 25 billion dollars in loans from the federal government last year. There is an increasing problem of large corporations going along with whatever the government wants. If they go along, they get subsidies and loans if needed and avoid big increases in taxes or regulations. If they don't go along, just the opposite happens. In an industry with multiple companies, the lone company that refuses government assistance finds itself at a competitive disadvantage compared to all the other companies receiving government money.
This ends up creating a system where companies are nominally under private ownership but the government is actually telling them what to do and what not to do. There is a name for such a system. The name is "fascism".
“The media is still digging on this “
Yup, our top notch professional, unbiased, journalists will work day and night to uncover the truth no matter which political party it might offend.
Whatever...I just don't feel like ignoring this thread this time. Just because you want it to be so doesn't make it so Mark94 et al. The dirt bags that keep propagating the anti vax crap try and sucker in lazy readers with uncredited sources.
[view link]
Excerpt
"CARL QUINTANILLA: Gary, all the same, the, the cancellations are being used by some to argue that this was a huge vaccine protest in the words of Donald Trump Jr. on Twitter in the past 24 hours. I mean, how much can you push back on that? You say it was not an issue but to what degree did it contribute to this problem at all?
KELLY: Zero. I mean, again, we look at all of our employee behaviors in terms of absenteeism, in terms of people volunteering to come in and pick up what's referred to as open time, and they're very, they're all very normal. The president of our pilots union has been out talking to the media confirming all of that so I think people again that, that understand how airlines work, when you get behind, it just takes several days to catch up and the fact that we're basically caught up yesterday and today supports, you know, the, the assertion that we're making here but we were significantly set behind on Friday and it just takes several days to catch up."
If you haze a problem with math zero means "none, nada, empty, zip, nothing..."
Personally, I hate being told what to do and delayed getting the vaccine out of pure bull headed stubbornness.
There is no reason not to get the damn thing. So many armchair scientists out here talking about natural immunity.
"Just keep repeating the lie enough and people will start to believe it."
The left has done the same thing with covid since the beginning. In fact if it had anything to do with saving lives, science, health or anything else and wasnt purely a political power move they would've did the opposite, which would be to lie and make it seem less than what it was to avoid mass panic and chaos(which is what they wanted).
If you think the interview of the CEO (who is liable for his statements) on a highly credited financial program is lying vs some rando politico website of DJT Jr then there is not much hope for you.
"If you think the interview of the CEO (who is liable for his statements) on a highly credited financial program is lying vs some rando politico website of DJT Jr then there is not much hope for you."
But who detemines who is the liar in this scenario? Its only in the event that you disagree that the other side is lying.
For the millionth time, no one is opposed to a vaccine. No one is “ anti-vaccine”. They are opposed to MANDATING the vaccine, even for those with natural immunity or little children at zero risk of death from CoVid.
It’s Biden who is ignoring the science. Natural immunity is much more effective than vaccines.
"Natural immunity is much more effective than vaccines."
Facts. But based on pro-vaccine logic everyone has to get the vaccine in order for it to work at all. Shows you how stupid a lot of these people are.
From the CEO being praised as a truth teller
Southwest CEO blames Biden for Vaccine mandate: “I’m not in favor of that, never have been. But the executive order from Biden mandates that all federal employees, and then all federal contractors, which covers all the major airlines, have to have a mandate.”
According to the Labor Department, 4.3 million workers quit their jobs in August. That represents almost 3 percent of the entire U.S. labor force and is the largest number of workers quitting their jobs in one month in history.
"According to the Labor Department, 4.3 million workers quit their jobs in August. That represents almost 3 percent of the entire U.S. labor force and is the largest number of workers quitting their jobs in one month in history."
So, basic theory of supply and demand would indicate that wages will be rising.....
For people intelligent enough to be inoculated.
if they are hourly wages then why would they be rising?
i'm guessing that some of those people who crossed the border will be chosen to be trained and groomed to fill up a lot of those jobs.
@Mark “According to the Labor Department, 4.3 million workers quit their jobs in August. That represents almost 3 percent of the entire U.S. labor force and is the largest number of workers quitting their jobs in one month in history.”
Yet the unemployment rate has dropped every month since June:
June 5.9%
Jul 5.4%
Aug 5.2%
Sep 4.8%
Maybe some of that record number of people who quit their jobs were leaving to take better jobs? And then other unemployed people took those jobs that had opened up?
Fucking statistics.
[view link]
“Yet the unemployment rate has dropped “
The unemployment rate only reflects people who are in the workforce or seeking employment. I suspect a lot of people are choosing to drop out of the workforce, at least temporarily. Retire. Stay home with the kids. Go back to school. Go on a sabbatical. Etc.
From a purely economic standpoint, it’s not good to have people choosing to stop working. That’s reflected in the supply chain problems we are having.
"So, basic theory of supply and demand would indicate that wages will be rising....."
But unfortunately, inflation is rising just as fast, if not faster, than wages.
Wages are rising, but inflation may have given workers a 2% pay cut
[view link]
Inflation wiped out America's pay raises
[view link]
SWA employees are organizing a rally outside the Dallas headquarters on Monday to oppose the vaccine mandate. I guess the flight cancellations weren’t weather related after all. It’s being organized as#FreedomFlu
𝕄𝕀𝕊𝕊𝕀𝕆ℕ 𝔸ℂℂ𝕆𝕄ℙ𝕃𝕀𝕊ℍ𝔼𝔻
We have beaten COVID. A vaccine is readily available to anyone who wants it and our most vulnerable have now been protected. Even in the Wild West known as Florida, COVID related deaths, positivity rates and hospitalizations are plummeting. We have won. It's time to ditch the masks, get back out there to ball games and the arts and to fully enjoy our lives.
𝕄𝕀𝕊𝕊𝕀𝕆ℕ 𝔸ℂℂ𝕆𝕄ℙ𝕃𝕀𝕊ℍ𝔼𝔻
The labor shortage is easily solved. End unemployment; suspend government payments to everyone not working unless they can prove a real disability. If people want to eat, they should work. If they chose to not work or eat; respect their choice.
4 million people a month are quitting their jobs. Many of them are dropping out of the workforce. Mom’s electing to stay at home. Older workers retiring early because they are burnt out. Some people just saying fuck it and hoping it all works out.
Excessive unemployment benefits triggered the problem but now something entirely different is going on. Whatever it is isn’t good for the economy or supply chains.
Gee, Southwest management continues to claim it's not due to a vaccine mandate.
Why would they NOT blame it? The only other obvious issue is really their own incompetence? And this is pretty much what they want you to believe... Why they hell would they not just point a finger if there was the slightest truth to it?
And, all the other airlines are implementing the same mandate. How many flights are they cancelling?
But ya, some off the wall misinformation sight claiming to support freedom and MAGA (but is probably developed by the kremlin, or some Australian billionaire) told you what you wanted to hear, so keep repeating it!!!
@mark
Whatever dude. Keep posting your doom and gloom anecdotal evidence that people are lazy or dispirited and not working. Unemployment claims dropped to their lowest levels last month since the pandemic began. The economy is still bumpy no doubt but your conclusions as to why are completely off base. It’s like your intentionally ignoring the data so you can spin the narrative you want.
[view link]
Unemployment claims dropping means jack shit to smart people since we know the number is the percentage of those looking for a job and not having one. It doesn't count criminals, illegals, welfare cheats, drug dealers, activists and the rest of the Democratic base.
Jimmy: I explained how unemployment figures don’t consider people who drop out of the workforce just a few posts above. In spite of that, you repeat the unemployment figures as supposed proof that people aren’t dropping out of the workforce. So, you are the one who is “ off base”.
Do you bother reading what people post, or do you just cut and paste your insults ?
Unemployment claims are EXACTLY THAT!!!
People making claims of unemployment to the state. Without making such a claim, they receive no unemployment benefits.
Doesn't mean they do or don't have a job, or why they don't. But CLEARLY means they aren't being paid by the state to look for a job (or act like they are). And thus, aren't not getting a job because they'd rather just collect unemployment. (DUH!!!)
Actually @Mark the news wasn't that four million people a month were quitting their jobs, the news was four million people left their job in August, mean while the unemployment claims number is coming down, maybe not quickly enough but the first time unemployment claims are a measure that is being looked at as an indicator that the number of unemployed is lessening.
25: I’ll try for a third ( and last ) time to explain it to you. Even if unemployment reaches 0%, there could be millions of people who quit working. Hell, in theory there could be 100 million people who quit working even though unemployment is 0%. That’s because people who leave the workforce aren’t counted in the numerator or denominator of the unemployment calculation.
We are beginning to see that is exactly what’s happening. People have stopped working for a variety of reasons. And, while that may be good for the individual, it’s really bad news for the economy. Businesses don’t have the staff they need. Supply chains are disrupted, resulting in empty shelves. The GDP drops. Fewer people are buying goods, other than essentials.
^ Please don't explain it to me I understand very well, what is going on, my major point is simple the four million number was a single time, most likely an anomaly, and first time claims going down is a positive that has nothing to do with the total unemployment numbers, there are lots of reasons that businesses are experiencing shortages of labor, we are still embroiled in this pandemic, and the mismanagement of this crisis is the main reason the economy is distressed.
It's taken us two years to get here, it's going to take a while to dig out of the hole we are in.
I agree fully about the situation with people not being employed, numbers vastly larger than the official unemployment rate. But about what that does to our society? Making it so people have paying employment costs us more than giving them unemployment, welfare, or UBI. Employed people use up more resources, they have to.
People who stay home and read Plato, use very little.
Trying to make everyone be employed mostly just fattens the financializers and reinforces the Work Ethic.
SJG
[view link]
It can't be that SW Airlines what the only one that was affected by weather etc and had to cancel 1000s of flights - this was obviously the pilots union not agreeing w/ the vaccine-mandates but they likely can't say/admit it was a walk-out - the head of the SW pilots-union was interviewed on Glen Beck radio-show and although he never admitted it was a walk-out, pretty-much the whole interview had to do w/ the vaccine-mandate and the pilots union not wanting it.
Biden is on record as previously stating he was not for a vaccine mandate and that it was likely something the government could not enforce - so he is now strong-arming companies into doing his bidding:
Biden and not having vaccine mandates:
[view link]
Furthermore the Dems had inserted into the massive $3.5-trillion/2500 page spending-bill a provision where companies would be fined up to $700,000 per incident for not complying with a vaccine mandate:
[view link]
The Secretary of Transportation, Pete Buttigieg, has been on paternity leave for the last 8 weeks to spend time with his husband and their two newborn babies. During that time, airlines have been disrupted and shipping ports have experienced a record backup.
It's about politics and power - Newsome in California kept the public schools closed at the behest of the powerful teachers union yet all along his own kids were attending private school - now this:
"Newsom, Who Wants Kids Vaccinated, Fights Vaccine Mandates For Prison Guards, Whose Union Gave $1.75 Million To Fight Recall"
[view link]
"The Secretary of Transportation, Pete Buttigieg, has been on paternity leave for the last 8 weeks to spend time with his husband and their two newborn babies. During that time, airlines have been disrupted and shipping ports have experienced a record backup.
Fine, he can stay home and get buggered for the rest of his term. In all proabability the situation would probably be worse if that unqualified hack was actually trying to fix things.
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