Clubs have been closed for over a year now in the commonwealth of Mass. Dancers have fled to states where clubs are open, or have found other jobs. When do clubs close thier doors for good? Who will be dancing 6 months from now?
As long as those PPE loans keep coming some clubs will open back up or remain open when things turn back to normal - whatever that new normal will be.
As for the dancers, who knows. I’d say eventually the dancers will come back, when clubs are in full swing where else can most dancers make that type of money?
Couldn't have been over a year yet. The didn't start the nationwide lockdown until after March. Remember, at this time a year ago the president was about to start calling it a democratic hoax. The mayor of New York was urging everyone to come out and celebrate Chinese New year.
Still, I am a little concerned just like you. Our clubs closed back in March. I don't see any vacant or for sale signs in front of them. But I'm wondering how it will be if/when they open back up. CA was ready a kind of shitty place for dancers because of that AB5 law.
@TFP https://tuscl.net/photo.php?id=6260 This joint was the "Follies" of NJ. I'd say a lot better from the Follies reviews I've read, compared to my decades of experience at this place. Fucking China virus cocksuckers can go fuck themselves.
IMHO where there are horny guys looking to spend money, there will be strip clubs around to take it. If places like FL and GA are any indication, there is still plenty of demand.
I was watching the news briefly the other day right when a segment came up about the workforce and how many women have been out of work now because of the pandemic. Sadly the jobs they focused on were waitresses and other jobs that just weren't as interesting as what I was thinking. They went into a restaurant....and...
They never mentioned "entertainers" once.
One thing they did mention was that this restaurant had to get rid of 85 employees (not the interesting part) and they would have sales of 4.92 (yep under 5 bucks) for the whole day sometimes. It would be one customer for the whole day! Must have been when it was to go only-I think the lady said it was a piece of pie. Wonder if that customer tipped the remaining 8 cents out of their fiver!
I've seen the effects of pent up demand as our clubs have opened and closed (they have basically called themselves restaurants whicb caused two closures)
If the guys show up when things reopen with money to burn the girls will follow until equilibrium is reached.
On the other hand if you have favorites who you haven't been in touch with, there's a decent chance they are out of the business. They also may be 30 pounds heavier.
I know of 4 local girls working for a agency called selective entertainment, they come to yo $$$ an hour light touching, I have seen one on S/A and one of S?B . The ones on fan's only are indeed 30 lbs heavier
There will always be supply and there will always be demand when it comes to the sex biz. But also, as with any biz, there is always change. So over time, any changes in clubs won’t be really due to the pandemic but rather whatever changes would otherwise occur. As to dancers, they’ll be there if the money is there.
Thins that baby boomers enjoyed will all be gone in 20 years. Society and the way we interact has changed. People who spend their lives on-line aren't going to pay money for anything occurring face to face. Everything that is happening now will ensure that freedom of association and privacy ends for good. Orwell was right.
I'll believe this ridiculous notion that guys will stop wanting person to person interactions with hot naked girls when I see it. Online activities can only take one so far. We've had nationwide high speed Internet for 20 years now, including a long period where both online adult sites AND strip club numbers were growing, which belies the notion (completely lacking in common sense) that the former can replace the latter.
The current generation of Millennials will get older and have more money to spend, just like the generations of older degenerates before them. The biggest wildcard is not online competition, but what local governments continue to do to try to shut them down. It's also not helping certain northern cities that they are rapidly losing their most affluent residents to friendlier states.
According to recent Detroit reviews as we suspected there is plenty of pent up demand and a good supply of entertainers to provide. I agree with the comments that "online" interaction is a good stop gap, butt there is nothing like the real thing.
The people I see buying dances now are old. The people making it rain and sitting and chatting with the dancers in the hopes of getting a girlfriend are the future and the future of clubs is bleak.
^ Ski, young guys making it rain and trying to pickup a GF will eventually get older too, change habits and replace the current crop of old guys. Rinse, repeat. It's the circle of life.
There will be no need for stripclubs when you can simply "swipe right" to get a reasonably hot woman to your home or hotel room
When the bay boomers go, so will the strip club
That has been the way its been Rick, but the internet has completely changed society. If you look at the pandemic and who is isolating themselves you see the same thing. Of course either way I will dead and never know anyway lol.
@dugan ‘We've had nationwide high speed Internet for 20 years now, including a long period where both online adult sites AND strip club numbers were growing, which belies the notion (completely lacking in common sense) that the former can replace the latter.’
I think you may be wrong on the facts that strip club numbers are growing. Someone posted a thread not too long ago (Wall maybe?) counting the number of clubs listed on Tuscl 10 years ago and now. While obviously not a perfect measurement (not all clubs are listed on tuscl), club numbers were way down in every state except FL and maybe TX if I remember correctly. Also maybe Vermont which went from like 2 clubs to 4.
That said, I personally agree with your conclusion that the internet isn’t a substitute for a good club for me, but it does seem to lessen the needs of some dudes to club.
^ Can't speak to all of Florida but I can tell you that Palm Beach and Broward Counties have less strip clubs (off the top of my head I come up with 11 closed clubs, and there are more than that) than they had 10 and 20 years ago, can't even remember the names, but I drive past at least 10 closed up clubs on a weekly basis, and that's in a fairly lenient club area.
There are far less strip clubs now than before I cannot think of any new ones, other than a few replacing former clubs. Providence is down at least 8-10, playmates, babes and Inner Room Two are all gone, the famed spermaid for west palm is gone and on and on.
I think the number of clubs in Austin has gone up by a few. Of course, Austin has been growing at an insane rate every year for 20 years.
Out here in the midwest, we don’t all live in Detroit or Chicago. My area lost half its clubs in the past 10 years. I think we’ll lose a couple more by the end of this year.
Long term, there’s a bigger issue that could affect clubs. It’s now commonly accepted that all sex workers are victims of “ trafficking”. Politicians are virtue signaling about this. Closing clubs is an easy way for them to signal their moral superiority.
I’ve always felt that the biggest impediment to SCs is LE/the-government – in areas where there isn’t a LE heavy-hand, SCs tend to survive-and-thrive better (of course there are other factors including the economics of an area; etc) – but I mean, look at how many TUSCLers go to Detroit to SC; AND IT’S DETROIT!
w.r.t. older clubs closing; IMO:
1) seems many, if not most/all, areas/cities, are not allowing “new” SCs to come online; i.e. seems they are not giving out new permits/licenses; and seems the only way to have a “new” SC is to purchase the licenses/permits from an old/existing one; or as one dancer told me, often times a “new” club leases the permits from the original-owner (which if this is indeed doable then makes sense the original-holder may not wanna give up the permits and is much more beneficial to lease the permits and hold onto them)
2) as with any business; there can be an oversupply (of clubs) – I recall when I lived/SCed in Dallas in the 2000s, there was a club that would get some ebony-dancers that would come down from OKC (~3hr drive) to dance on the weekends and then drive back – one of the dancers told me that in the late-90s when the stock-market started booming then the mostly-sleepy OKC clubs where all of a sudden flushed w/ paper-millionaires and the older guys that were retiring around that time and tapping into their new-found-wealth were spending really-well in the clubs – i.e. as w/ many businesses, decent-chance that the # of SCs goes up and down w/ the economy and when the economy is booming “everyone gets to eat”
===> "I think the number of clubs in Austin has gone up by a few. Of course, Austin has been growing at an insane rate every year for 20 years."
And this is exactly the point I was making. Jacksonville FL has also been a good club location. There will be ebbs and flows based upon economic conditions, but overall when times are good there is still a lot of demand for clubs in friendlier environments and I suspect there always will be until something comes along that includes lots of naked in person girls.
Too many people around here are drawing the conclusion that the club business is dying because: (1) a bunch of weaker clubs closed down during the extended economic malaise that started in '08 and extended for many years after; and (2) they live in areas with affluent population decline and they assume that all other areas nationwide are experiencing similar issues.
Just go into a club here in Atlanta or J'ville or several other friendlier cities on a Th-Sa night and you'll see large crowds and tons of girls working. There is plenty of demand for clubs still, from both old and younger generations.
Short answer is yes. Most clubs are small businesses susceptible to local trends. Lots of variance across the country and world in response to the pandemic. Clubs that were most vulnerable are already gone. The rest is still TBD.
San Diego had a lot of clubs close due to over reaching Vice cops about 15 years ago. Vice got the 6' rule implemented. They also sent heroes into clubs to get dances and arrest girls that violated the rules. To the clubs, they went after their liquor license.
A lot of strippers want to go back to work.
A lot of college aged hotties are going to say fuck college and fuck getting (or keeping one they already have) a 9 to 5 job once this is over. I'm sure they'll hear from their friends (strippers) how much they used to make and how much they are currently making (whether stripping in bad times in clubs that are open or at their current "normal" job)
There may be so many applying at clubs that a lot of hotties don't make the cut at the top of the line clubs. It'll be up to them to try for the middle of the road clubs. Then down the ladder. Middle of the road dancers may not make the cut at the middle of the road clubs. Will be up to them if they go for the more "dive" clubs.
There will be plenty of dancers, plenty of customers possibly and most likely fewer clubs.
Once things get going again, will strippers be better with handling their money and finances knowing something could happen again, I seriously doubt it!
Do y’all remember the stripclub scene in the early 2,000’s. A lot of underground parties were all over. Well if you’re plugged in the circuit you’ll have a place to go every night
^ never got plugged into the underground scene - it appears to me it may be geographical in places like NYC and Philly and perhaps a few others but not necessarily widespread but IDK for sure
"... The governor opened up the clubs Monday Feb. 1st after being closed for a couple of months as part of the covid lockdown ..."
"... About 7pm I took a short 10 minute walk from Greektown Casino hotel to Legends ... The club had a ton of girls that night 50+ and it seemed more of a reunion for the girls since there were probably half that many patrons at peak that night ..."
"... VIP was closed for now so the only action was just stage tipping and sitting with your favorite girl(s) ... Wide range of talent but most girls were pretty and friendly. Some were interested in OTC given the restrictions in place but I did not take up any options there this time. Girls are not allowed to even sit in your lap right now which is no fun ..."
"... I hung out tipping girls and drinking until close which is now a 10pm limit under present covid rules .. I guess there is not much more to say. The club scene is pretty lame right now in Michigan right now but at least they are open ..."
So this may be an example of pent-up demand (at least on the dancers' part) - although it remains to be seen if the dancers stick around given the current state of the clubs if this state does not change quickly enough.
One interesting point about "college girls" is gap years were popular this academic year. It was socially ok for a 18 year old high school grad to live at home and not work.
The fall may bring a rush of girls needing jobs and still slowness as hostesses.
The club decline is being driven by it being increasingly difficult to open new clubs due to local governments using all the tools available to them to block them. Behind that are societal changes with stripper jobs being seen as more demeaning and exploitative by the general public.
I've had long time strippers tell me the average earnings per girl has dropped and the change in customer composition is more a factor than change in number of customers. A main source of income was middle aged white guys and that demographic is decreasing. Neighborhoods decline over time as people move further out to the suburbs. All the clubs are stuck in the old declining neighborhoods since they can't open in a new location due to local government actions. The neighborhood locals hang out in the clubs and give them a more dangerous vibe. There are more fights and more open drug dealing going on in the clubs than what I've seen in the past. We have even had several shootings here in the Indianapolis clubs in recent years. This scares off the old white guys with money. So in the future, the clubs will take on an increasingly ghetto feel as the customer base moves in that direction. It will be more young guys, more nonstop hip hop music, declining stripper incomes, and less attractive strippers since attractive young women have better options than low paid work that has lost any glamour it might have once had in an earlier era.
I have little doubt that state and local governments are and will continue to use COVID restrictions to try to force clubs out of business. They won't do is straightforwardly, but they will attempt to keep clubs in the area closed or under such heavy restrictions that they can't make money for as long as possible and hope clubs in their area will end up shutting their doors without their having to do things like make zoning changes that they know will be challenged in court.
I think once covid is over we could see an increase in everything. Like the spanish flu in 1918-1919, once it was over, we got the roaring 20s. If the whales are saving their money while not enjoying, once it opens back up and everyone feels safe, they'll be ready to dive back in. Sure clubs close and they are making it hard to open new ones in some areas, that's a bigger worry long term. But it's the oldest profession for a reason and it will live long past this pandemic.
The problem is men are getting more antisocial. And not as much money around. Dancers don't have the best social skills and the attitude that you should pay them just for being there gets old. Add to it price gouging and shit management. The rise of private parties.
I think strip clubs can get pinched between gentrifying downtown areas and growing affluent suburbs that don't include strip clubs in their master plans.
The ones here are in industrial areas or in one case an Asian dominated commerical district.
I also think once things are "normal" the cash is going to be going to the clubs. People will want to get back to (frequent) travel too.
Only thing is if businesses will send so many employees out on travel. My business had clients flown in (probably that we paid for at least half), wined and dined and I heard the higher ups guys speech several times. Same speech! Worked in a crappy office too that certainly wasn't part of he selling point. Now meetings are virtual. New clients still interested, but saving (probably both companies) the travel fees as the speech is virtual and I don't have to hear it now!
Saves a lot of money. Flights, hotels, dinners. Estimate 10-20 people (maybe more as some companies sent a lot of people) a month at least. Only time with no travel was Thanksgiving to new years. Although I think we did have a visit in early December one year.
I think there was a trend towards more remote meetings and less travel before covid. At my previous job I watched companies go from sending entire 10-12 person entourages to visit us down to about 1-3 representatives with everyone else calling in for meetings as needed.
I agree with the sentiment things will stay alive and well. Places are open, and will be even more lively once restrictions are done with.
Over the long term, my guess is clubs might be “over” as we know it once full service sex work is outright legal. I do think it’s coming. There is random legislation pushes in random places that seem to be chomping at the bits, like marijuana and gay marriage used to be. Will the stage sets continue? Who knows, many may not want to bother. But then again, Australia has legalization and clubs have remained alive over there.
"... my guess is clubs might be “over” as we know it once full service sex work is outright legal. I do think it’s coming ..."
That seems to be the M.O. and why SCs outside the U.S. can't compete - although from what I can tell Canada seems to have a mix of legal-sex-work and SCs
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As for the dancers, who knows. I’d say eventually the dancers will come back, when clubs are in full swing where else can most dancers make that type of money?
Still, I am a little concerned just like you. Our clubs closed back in March. I don't see any vacant or for sale signs in front of them. But I'm wondering how it will be if/when they open back up. CA was ready a kind of shitty place for dancers because of that AB5 law.
This joint was the "Follies" of NJ. I'd say a lot better from the Follies reviews I've read, compared to my decades of experience at this place. Fucking China virus cocksuckers can go fuck themselves.
They never mentioned "entertainers" once.
One thing they did mention was that this restaurant had to get rid of 85 employees (not the interesting part) and they would have sales of 4.92 (yep under 5 bucks) for the whole day sometimes. It would be one customer for the whole day! Must have been when it was to go only-I think the lady said it was a piece of pie. Wonder if that customer tipped the remaining 8 cents out of their fiver!
If the guys show up when things reopen with money to burn the girls will follow until equilibrium is reached.
On the other hand if you have favorites who you haven't been in touch with, there's a decent chance they are out of the business. They also may be 30 pounds heavier.
The current generation of Millennials will get older and have more money to spend, just like the generations of older degenerates before them. The biggest wildcard is not online competition, but what local governments continue to do to try to shut them down. It's also not helping certain northern cities that they are rapidly losing their most affluent residents to friendlier states.
When the bay boomers go, so will the strip club
I think you may be wrong on the facts that strip club numbers are growing. Someone posted a thread not too long ago (Wall maybe?) counting the number of clubs listed on Tuscl 10 years ago and now. While obviously not a perfect measurement (not all clubs are listed on tuscl), club numbers were way down in every state except FL and maybe TX if I remember correctly. Also maybe Vermont which went from like 2 clubs to 4.
That said, I personally agree with your conclusion that the internet isn’t a substitute for a good club for me, but it does seem to lessen the needs of some dudes to club.
Out here in the midwest, we don’t all live in Detroit or Chicago. My area lost half its clubs in the past 10 years. I think we’ll lose a couple more by the end of this year.
w.r.t. older clubs closing; IMO:
1) seems many, if not most/all, areas/cities, are not allowing “new” SCs to come online; i.e. seems they are not giving out new permits/licenses; and seems the only way to have a “new” SC is to purchase the licenses/permits from an old/existing one; or as one dancer told me, often times a “new” club leases the permits from the original-owner (which if this is indeed doable then makes sense the original-holder may not wanna give up the permits and is much more beneficial to lease the permits and hold onto them)
2) as with any business; there can be an oversupply (of clubs) – I recall when I lived/SCed in Dallas in the 2000s, there was a club that would get some ebony-dancers that would come down from OKC (~3hr drive) to dance on the weekends and then drive back – one of the dancers told me that in the late-90s when the stock-market started booming then the mostly-sleepy OKC clubs where all of a sudden flushed w/ paper-millionaires and the older guys that were retiring around that time and tapping into their new-found-wealth were spending really-well in the clubs – i.e. as w/ many businesses, decent-chance that the # of SCs goes up and down w/ the economy and when the economy is booming “everyone gets to eat”
And this is exactly the point I was making. Jacksonville FL has also been a good club location. There will be ebbs and flows based upon economic conditions, but overall when times are good there is still a lot of demand for clubs in friendlier environments and I suspect there always will be until something comes along that includes lots of naked in person girls.
Just go into a club here in Atlanta or J'ville or several other friendlier cities on a Th-Sa night and you'll see large crowds and tons of girls working. There is plenty of demand for clubs still, from both old and younger generations.
A lot of college aged hotties are going to say fuck college and fuck getting (or keeping one they already have) a 9 to 5 job once this is over. I'm sure they'll hear from their friends (strippers) how much they used to make and how much they are currently making (whether stripping in bad times in clubs that are open or at their current "normal" job)
There may be so many applying at clubs that a lot of hotties don't make the cut at the top of the line clubs. It'll be up to them to try for the middle of the road clubs. Then down the ladder. Middle of the road dancers may not make the cut at the middle of the road clubs. Will be up to them if they go for the more "dive" clubs.
There will be plenty of dancers, plenty of customers possibly and most likely fewer clubs.
Once things get going again, will strippers be better with handling their money and finances knowing something could happen again, I seriously doubt it!
"... The governor opened up the clubs Monday Feb. 1st after being closed for a couple of months as part of the covid lockdown ..."
"... About 7pm I took a short 10 minute walk from Greektown Casino hotel to Legends ... The club had a ton of girls that night 50+ and it seemed more of a reunion for the girls since there were probably half that many patrons at peak that night ..."
"... VIP was closed for now so the only action was just stage tipping and sitting with your favorite girl(s) ... Wide range of talent but most girls were pretty and friendly. Some were interested in OTC given the restrictions in place but I did not take up any options there this time. Girls are not allowed to even sit in your lap right now which is no fun ..."
"... I hung out tipping girls and drinking until close which is now a 10pm limit under present covid rules .. I guess there is not much more to say. The club scene is pretty lame right now in Michigan right now but at least they are open ..."
So this may be an example of pent-up demand (at least on the dancers' part) - although it remains to be seen if the dancers stick around given the current state of the clubs if this state does not change quickly enough.
The fall may bring a rush of girls needing jobs and still slowness as hostesses.
I've had long time strippers tell me the average earnings per girl has dropped and the change in customer composition is more a factor than change in number of customers. A main source of income was middle aged white guys and that demographic is decreasing. Neighborhoods decline over time as people move further out to the suburbs. All the clubs are stuck in the old declining neighborhoods since they can't open in a new location due to local government actions. The neighborhood locals hang out in the clubs and give them a more dangerous vibe. There are more fights and more open drug dealing going on in the clubs than what I've seen in the past. We have even had several shootings here in the Indianapolis clubs in recent years. This scares off the old white guys with money. So in the future, the clubs will take on an increasingly ghetto feel as the customer base moves in that direction. It will be more young guys, more nonstop hip hop music, declining stripper incomes, and less attractive strippers since attractive young women have better options than low paid work that has lost any glamour it might have once had in an earlier era.
The ones here are in industrial areas or in one case an Asian dominated commerical district.
Only thing is if businesses will send so many employees out on travel. My business had clients flown in (probably that we paid for at least half), wined and dined and I heard the higher ups guys speech several times. Same speech! Worked in a crappy office too that certainly wasn't part of he selling point. Now meetings are virtual. New clients still interested, but saving (probably both companies) the travel fees as the speech is virtual and I don't have to hear it now!
Saves a lot of money. Flights, hotels, dinners. Estimate 10-20 people (maybe more as some companies sent a lot of people) a month at least. Only time with no travel was Thanksgiving to new years. Although I think we did have a visit in early December one year.
Over the long term, my guess is clubs might be “over” as we know it once full service sex work is outright legal. I do think it’s coming. There is random legislation pushes in random places that seem to be chomping at the bits, like marijuana and gay marriage used to be. Will the stage sets continue? Who knows, many may not want to bother. But then again, Australia has legalization and clubs have remained alive over there.
That seems to be the M.O. and why SCs outside the U.S. can't compete - although from what I can tell Canada seems to have a mix of legal-sex-work and SCs