So I’m going to visit a girl I see at the club. It started out being basically a date with no money exchanged. The club she works at it closed for renovations so she presently has no income. She hinted yesterday about money because of this. I knew she was out of a job so actually planned on giving her something. She will be staying probably 18 hours with me. I asked her if she had a number in mind and she said $500 to help with her rent. I feel for the time spent it’s probably reasonable but would like any other thoughts or opinions.
If she is spending 18 hours with you and you are getting multiple Pops ? Then you are getting a good deal. $500 for one hour of sex is too much. But spending an entire day ? If I enjoyed the girls company,, I would pay that.
If you're getting sex (which is what I assumed) then it's a good deal for basically an overnighter - but if it's just her hanging out with you it wouldn't be worth it to me (too much $$$ to just hang out)
If it's worth it to you, then it's fine. It's probably more than I'd pay, but its certainly not so high as to be outrageous or too low to be insulting.
I'd disagree with being explicit about what you want, but you've got to consider your "relationship" and if that's appropriate or not. If it's purely business then go ahead, but if not trying to make it about x dollars for y sex is going to make her think about it that way and behave accordingly. Again, its about what you want.
-->"I'd say $500 is a good deal on the condition that you'll be paying less for the same thing the next time it happens."
In all honesty, this is a thought I had as well. Even in the most expensive area in the country, I'm not paying $500 for OTCs. But that's because I don't negotiate overnights or even time -- initial negotiation is just for a vague OTC, we get to a number we're happy with (say $350), and then I spring dinner and drinks on her... and if she decides to spend overnight with me, hey, that's great. But once we have our number, that's the price
If you're negotiating for a loooong date plus overnight from the beginning, $500 is totally reasonable. My only concern is, now $500 is the price, in her mind. If the next OTC is 5 hours, will she still expect $500?
So you started off just as a date. Looks like things have now changed to 500 bucks to see her. If this is overnight meeting just remember that you will end up going for dinner, drinks, and lots of other activities plus you’ve agreed to give her rent money and don’t know what your getting out of it. I only see one person OTC and we have become very good friends with lots of extras inside and outside. My advice would be to just make short date to “hangout” or just meet for sex if that’s what your looking for. If things work out extend it and enjoy each other for as long as you want. Very hard to put her on the clock with expectations unless both of you understand that’s what you and her want. Remind yourself it’s for fun but for OTC, it’s got to be fun for both. Other wise take your 500 go to club and enjoy afternoon with lots of girls.
Went well. She got rid of the clothes pretty much as soon as she got in the room. Had some fun then went to get something to eat and hung out downtown for awhile. Went back to room for another round of fun. Went to sleep and she woke up pretty early around 5 am played a little bit and she took off for home. Said she wants me to come to her place next time. Will just have to see where things go from here. Not looking to be a sugar daddy but if it’s just to visit every once in awhile with money not expected will probably continue but 3 hour drive is a ways to go. She contacts me pretty much daily so playing it by ear for now. Thanks everyone for all the advice.
Sounds like she enjoys your company and $500 is a good deal in most parts of the country. I've only done overnights a handful of times and doesn't work for me. I don't get any sleep because of the sexual tension and I'm afraid of snoring or something.
You said you don't want to be a SD -- but any long-term paid arrangement fits my definition.
Sounds good. You know how I know a woman has ATF or sugarbaby potential with me? We have sex, and then I still want to take her to dinner and hang out. The drive to her is 3 hours one way, or 3 hours round trip? one way is too fucking far. round trip, ain't no thang, IMO.
She is testing you. Tell her you are happy to help her but you think advancing her money will confuse the situation. Look for some other things to do in her area and make a weekend of it. A three hour drive for some good sex and a weekend away isn't bad.
"Tell her you are happy to help her but you think advancing her money will confuse the situation. " _____ Disagree slightly. I would just give a simple "no" to establish boundaries.
there is no manufactured excuse. From his posts I assume he is open to more P2P sessions.
telling her he is happy to help but that he will not advance her money for sessions that will (probably not) happen in the future, in my opinion, is not passive aggressive. It sets a clear boundary. It is a P2P relationship and he is not stupid.
K, gotcha, I might have over-worded it a bit. "would confuse the situation" feels like something she can (and probably will) latch onto to see what he means, challenge it, assure him she won't be confused, etc. A simple "no" is a bit too terse, at least for me; my typical response is "I'm not comfortable sending money in advance of our meetings, but would be happy to see you again ASAP" or something to that effect
It amazes me that most of you think $500 wasn't a steal of a bargain. The way you guys suck up to Nicespice, you would be at the ATM in minutes if she made you that offer. Sadly, based on her comments, you wouldn't get her for sex even adding another zero.
Not meant to be a knock on Nice in any way, shape, or form. Just sayin
I agree with nofuglies. There’s been plenty of times I’ve dropped $500 in a few hours at a club on drinks/cover charge/dances/tips and left without getting extras. $500 for an overnight with a stripper you’re attracted to I think is a fair deal.
I don't think there's anyone who didn't say it's a fair deal, for an overnight. Every single person agreed -- you're agreeing with the rest of us in the thread, if you describe it as "a fair deal". Nofuglies said "steal of a bargain".
To the extent I hedge at all, it's that I think it's a mistake to negotiate overnights with strippers. Not just overnights -- to negotiate for time at all. My experience with strippers is that if you negotiate for an OTC for (say) $350, no time period specified, there's a good chance she'll hang out for hours. If you get drunk together, there's a good chance she'll crash in the room with you. Or, perhaps, another way to say it: even in one of the most expensive areas in the country, I've done overnights with strippers for under $500 -- because I didn't negotiate an overnight. I negotiated an OTC, we got drunk, and she stayed in the room. I've done this a LOT.
THAT is why I think it's fair, but not a steal of a bargain. Yes, if I approached OTC like negotiating with escorts, and negotiated to pay for an overnight right from the beginning, $500 for a hot stripper is a steal of a bargain. But the whole point for me is, I don't ever approach OTC negotiation that way. It's just a complete difference in mindset on how to approach OTCs and overnights
===> "Not looking to be a sugar daddy but if it’s just to visit every once in awhile with money not expected will probably continue but 3 hour drive is a ways to go."
Ok, you're not being clear dude. You DID give her the $500 for the initial meetup, right? Why would you think that she wouldn't expect money in the future?
If what you're trying to say is that you don't want to be a long distance ATM then I completely understand. I agree with others who say that she is testing the boundaries of your new "relationship" to see what she can get. I also have zero interest in an SD arrangement as it is too ambiguous and the ROI is just not there. when you factor in extra lump sums for one-off emergencies.
If what you are saying is that you don't want to pay her at all, then you're just being unrealistic and maybe duplicitous. You went into this knowing full well that she was seeking a commercial arrangement and if you didn't pay her the first time then you got one for free.
@Dugan wrote: " I also have zero interest in an SD arrangement as it is too ambiguous and the ROI is just not there. when you factor in extra lump sums for one-off emergencies." ___________________
Everyone has there own definition of what a sugaring arrangement amounts to. For example, I don't give any money for one-off emergencies, I've never gone shopping, and I've never taken a girl on an international trip. I'm pretty generous with cash, though. My definition is any kind of long-term paid arrangement where there's at least something beyond having sex -- and you still enjoy hanging out after the sex (as @Subra put it).
Example of SB/SD arrangement: @JohnSmith meeting an 18-yr-old in a strip club, $1000 per meet, going on shopping trips, and international travel, stretching on for several months.
Example of what is not a sugaring arrangement: @Warrior meeting a 19-yr-old on SA, fucking her in the ass, and dumping after the 2nd date.
The ROI *is* there if you find the right girl, she's sane, responsible, intelligent, very attractive, you're both tested, and enjoy each other's company. That's my opinion; it doesn't coincide with the average stripclub monger.
If I had a nice date like the @OP and she asked me for car money the next day, I would respond in some way that shows I have a spine and don't want to be treated like an ATM. Being treated like an ATM is *not* the same as being an SD -- and that's precisely what @Dugan is implying.
Nofuglies said —>“The way you guys suck up to Nicespice, you would be at the ATM in minutes if she made you that offer. Sadly, based on her comments, you wouldn't get her for sex even adding another zero.” The way you guys suck up to Nicespice, you would be at the ATM in minutes if she made you that offer. Sadly, based on her comments, you wouldn't get her for sex even adding another zero.”
I’m just going to throw it out there that if somebody wishes to help me out with $5k, I’m not saaaaying I’ll have sex, but erm...feel free to PM me.
I would just keep it pay for play right now. If you keep seeing her and want to it could develop into more of an arrangement.
IME when a girl is hitting you up for money this early it isn't a good sign.
I have had arrangements for months at a time where after a handful of ITC I just put it out there what else I was looking for. We agreed o. The business and never discussed it again....just had a good time. Now I was very generous because I really liked her and she was beyond a 10 in my books. But we enjoyed hanging out. Lots of times we didn't even knock uglies but we still had fun.
It doesn't happen often which I why I paid up and don't regret it a bit. We still have fun just less often due to other commitments.
But again she never straight hit me up for money. Just keep it play for pay for now to keep things clear.
Only thing I have changed over the years is: 1. Establish trust and likeness for each other (only to a certain degree). 2-3 ITC visits. 2. Never accept a free OTC date. Always compensate for dancers time, even if the dancer insists otherwise. Stick to going rate for the market. Not below. Not above. 3. It's just me - and against common wisdom, I state that compensation is only for time and companionship of dancer. Anything beyond that is between two consenting adults and money will not be involved.
Step 1 eliminates ROBs, cold bitches, prudes and generally ensures OTC with a dancer that has good sexual appetite. (There have been some miscues) Step 2 sets boundaries - a lesson I have learned. Dancer brings beauty, charm (honey). Customer brings money. It's no more and no less. I went on a few OTC dates for free and they went emotional and with expectations.
Then Step 3 usually results in a fucking good time with a superfine hottie !
Fucking good time usually is fucking and sucking but I'm really ok even without it. Hence I can afford to be less demanding upfront.
I believe the most difficult OTC part for veteran TUSCL members is moving to newer and different dancers for OTC because many previous OTC dates want repeats - and TUSCL guy - if anything - is someone who likes variety. Plenty of it.
Variety is great. But when you strike gold and find the ever elusive one it makes all of the SS you had to sift through to find her worth it and less willing to endure more SS for a while chasing another illusion.
$500 Sounds Good But Would Require Atleast 1 Whole Night, May B She Would Do More Than A Night, Food & Other Small Things I Would Still Do As Extras For Her. Would Need The Whole Performance Though. Good Luck, This Dancer Needs Help! ✔️ 💲 ♥️
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Just make sure that she understands what you want.
$500 for sex and eight hours of company is a good price.
Be clear with her what you expect: hanging out is too ambiguos.
I'd disagree with being explicit about what you want, but you've got to consider your "relationship" and if that's appropriate or not. If it's purely business then go ahead, but if not trying to make it about x dollars for y sex is going to make her think about it that way and behave accordingly. Again, its about what you want.
BUT: Only give her the gift when she leaves. Nothing in advance.
If she's a ROB she will bounce out as soon as she gets the cash, knowing you will never call LE on her.
But yes, $500 is beyond reasonable to keep her occupied for a whole day and night, especially if you get laid along the way.
In all honesty, this is a thought I had as well. Even in the most expensive area in the country, I'm not paying $500 for OTCs. But that's because I don't negotiate overnights or even time -- initial negotiation is just for a vague OTC, we get to a number we're happy with (say $350), and then I spring dinner and drinks on her... and if she decides to spend overnight with me, hey, that's great. But once we have our number, that's the price
If you're negotiating for a loooong date plus overnight from the beginning, $500 is totally reasonable. My only concern is, now $500 is the price, in her mind. If the next OTC is 5 hours, will she still expect $500?
I only see one person OTC and we have become very good friends with lots of extras inside and outside. My advice would be to just make short date to “hangout” or just meet for sex if that’s what your looking for. If things work out extend it and enjoy each other for as long as you want.
Very hard to put her on the clock with expectations unless both of you understand that’s what you and her want.
Remind yourself it’s for fun but for OTC, it’s got to be fun for both. Other wise take your 500 go to club and enjoy afternoon with lots of girls.
You said you don't want to be a SD -- but any long-term paid arrangement fits my definition.
Look for some other things to do in her area and make a weekend of it. A three hour drive for some good sex and a weekend away isn't bad.
______
+1
_____
Disagree slightly. I would just give a simple "no" to establish boundaries.
telling her he is happy to help but that he will not advance her money for sessions that will (probably not) happen in the future, in my opinion, is not passive aggressive. It sets a clear boundary. It is a P2P relationship and he is not stupid.
Is this one of those things we are expected to insult each other and create some troll accounts to attack each other ?
Not meant to be a knock on Nice in any way, shape, or form. Just sayin
To the extent I hedge at all, it's that I think it's a mistake to negotiate overnights with strippers. Not just overnights -- to negotiate for time at all. My experience with strippers is that if you negotiate for an OTC for (say) $350, no time period specified, there's a good chance she'll hang out for hours. If you get drunk together, there's a good chance she'll crash in the room with you. Or, perhaps, another way to say it: even in one of the most expensive areas in the country, I've done overnights with strippers for under $500 -- because I didn't negotiate an overnight. I negotiated an OTC, we got drunk, and she stayed in the room. I've done this a LOT.
THAT is why I think it's fair, but not a steal of a bargain. Yes, if I approached OTC like negotiating with escorts, and negotiated to pay for an overnight right from the beginning, $500 for a hot stripper is a steal of a bargain. But the whole point for me is, I don't ever approach OTC negotiation that way. It's just a complete difference in mindset on how to approach OTCs and overnights
Ok, you're not being clear dude. You DID give her the $500 for the initial meetup, right? Why would you think that she wouldn't expect money in the future?
If what you're trying to say is that you don't want to be a long distance ATM then I completely understand. I agree with others who say that she is testing the boundaries of your new "relationship" to see what she can get. I also have zero interest in an SD arrangement as it is too ambiguous and the ROI is just not there. when you factor in extra lump sums for one-off emergencies.
If what you are saying is that you don't want to pay her at all, then you're just being unrealistic and maybe duplicitous. You went into this knowing full well that she was seeking a commercial arrangement and if you didn't pay her the first time then you got one for free.
___________________
Everyone has there own definition of what a sugaring arrangement amounts to. For example, I don't give any money for one-off emergencies, I've never gone shopping, and I've never taken a girl on an international trip. I'm pretty generous with cash, though. My definition is any kind of long-term paid arrangement where there's at least something beyond having sex -- and you still enjoy hanging out after the sex (as @Subra put it).
Example of SB/SD arrangement: @JohnSmith meeting an 18-yr-old in a strip club, $1000 per meet, going on shopping trips, and international travel, stretching on for several months.
Example of what is not a sugaring arrangement: @Warrior meeting a 19-yr-old on SA, fucking her in the ass, and dumping after the 2nd date.
The ROI *is* there if you find the right girl, she's sane, responsible, intelligent, very attractive, you're both tested, and enjoy each other's company. That's my opinion; it doesn't coincide with the average stripclub monger.
If I had a nice date like the @OP and she asked me for car money the next day, I would respond in some way that shows I have a spine and don't want to be treated like an ATM. Being treated like an ATM is *not* the same as being an SD -- and that's precisely what @Dugan is implying.
I’m just going to throw it out there that if somebody wishes to help me out with $5k, I’m not saaaaying I’ll have sex, but erm...feel free to PM me.
IME when a girl is hitting you up for money this early it isn't a good sign.
I have had arrangements for months at a time where after a handful of ITC I just put it out there what else I was looking for. We agreed o. The business and never discussed it again....just had a good time. Now I was very generous because I really liked her and she was beyond a 10 in my books. But we enjoyed hanging out. Lots of times we didn't even knock uglies but we still had fun.
It doesn't happen often which I why I paid up and don't regret it a bit. We still have fun just less often due to other commitments.
But again she never straight hit me up for money. Just keep it play for pay for now to keep things clear.
Only thing I have changed over the years is:
1. Establish trust and likeness for each other (only to a certain degree). 2-3 ITC visits.
2. Never accept a free OTC date. Always compensate for dancers time, even if the dancer insists otherwise. Stick to going rate for the market. Not below. Not above.
3. It's just me - and against common wisdom, I state that compensation is only for time and companionship of dancer. Anything beyond that is between two consenting adults and money will not be involved.
Step 1 eliminates ROBs, cold bitches, prudes and generally ensures OTC with a dancer that has good sexual appetite. (There have been some miscues)
Step 2 sets boundaries - a lesson I have learned. Dancer brings beauty, charm (honey). Customer brings money. It's no more and no less. I went on a few OTC dates for free and they went emotional and with expectations.
Then Step 3 usually results in a fucking good time with a superfine hottie !
Fucking good time usually is fucking and sucking but I'm really ok even without it. Hence I can afford to be less demanding upfront.
I believe the most difficult OTC part for veteran TUSCL members is moving to newer and different dancers for OTC because many previous OTC dates want repeats - and TUSCL guy - if anything - is someone who likes variety. Plenty of it.
This PL can only take so much SS at a time.