Fuck fuck fuck - another CF lost to heroin

It sounds like you care too much. You're not supposed to fall in love until she starts banging you OTC for free.

Care about the girl herself? Lol Livet, you clearly haven't been here too long or else you'd know that it is all about me me me me me me. I am simply frustrated at the loss of a girl who entertained me well ITC and OTC, since I have a firm rule about messing with girls who are clearly using hardcore drugs. The fact that she has obviously started what I'm sure will be a downward spiral is her problem. She's a grown woman and I'm not her Daddy.

Understand now? ;)

i can understand on her own time but using it at a club is bad

She will be dead before age 30

It is too bad. I actually stopped with one, not necessarily a CF, because she was doing bumps of coke in front of me. I'm not judgemental, it's just not for me.

From your title, I thought she'd OD d and died! At least shes not dead yet....

^thats what I thought, clickbait

Yeah I thought the same thing

Click bait for sure

5th on thinking she died from an OD. Well, at least she has time to turn it around before that really is the result.

Count me sixth... I thought she died too...glad she didn't but sorry she may...

Ricky is a God dam troll

Count me seventh

gawker is jerking off right now

I guess that makes me #8. Maybe we should count how many of us didn’t think that.

Nine! I thought that another cheap whore died too.

She’s still available for dances - and her prices are highly negotiable!

FWIW, I didn’t immediately jump to the conclusion that someone had died, for I too have been in rick’s position in this regard. Watching a once beautiful woman succumb to the ravages of heroin, coke, crack, meth, etc is about as sad as it gets. I’ve tried to help on occasion, with rides to clinics, meetings and such, but most want “help” with food, rent, etc, which I refuse to provide, as all it does is free up *other* income for drugs.

These days, I just cut them off, with clear explanation as to why.

Tenth.

11th!

I also object to the theory that anyone would know that this was the first time a dancer used H. It is the first time, the OP became aware of her "hard core" drug use. I get being sensitive to the signs of hard core drug use, but many users can get over.

Sorry for any confusion folks. No trolling intended. I just posted this from my own perspective. Once this shit starts, she is lost to me.

I hate to admit this, but Trapbaby has me chuckling with "gawker is jerking off right now." To him this must sound like a chance to get in on the ground floor. ;)

Some of you guys sound like the dudes on usasexguide who have these little group mourning discussions when one of their favorite providers overdoses. Not me. In fact, I tend to view it as Natural Selection in action. I have zero sympathy for someone who knowingly goes down that road despite being surrounded by examples of what that shit will do to her.

But Rick what if she goes to you for help? Then what?

Glad to hear Rick just says no to track Mark's lol

*marks dam autocorrect

@Muddy: [copied and posted from a previous post above] The fact that she has obviously started what I'm sure will be a downward spiral is her problem. She's a grown woman and I'm not her Daddy.

Besides, too many old dudes whop try to "help" these girls are still looking to get laid, which is not truly helpful. As I've said to gawker time and again, there is no such thing as the Noble Pervert. You can be the person who truly tries to help or the guy who tries to get into her pants, but not both.

I totally disagree with that. There are plenty of women who I do care about but also still definitely want to fuck them. Jesus.

"You can be the person who truly tries to help or the guy who tries to get into her pants, but not both." I agree Rick, once a girl starts using more than weed or alcohol I am done giving her anything. When talking about a dancer or other P4P I am more focused on getting into her pants than solving her problems. If they money I give her in exchange helps solve her problem of needing a car repair or paying a cell phone bill it is a win-win situation. However, I can't stand the idea that the money I give her may go to her next drug fix. Fuck that, there are plenty of others that are willimg to offer what I want that aren't addicted to drugs.

If a friend of mine had a problem with drugs I'd be there to help them get clean (and I have helped a couple of them get into rehab), but if it is just a person I do business with I wish them luck but they are on their own.

Muddy, when an old dude who is trying to "help" a girl is also trying to get into her pants, to her he is just one more guy trying to use her for pussy. You lose any moral authority you might have had at that point. You just don't get to be the fatherly voice of support and wisdom that she would never fuck in a normal setting (because you are 2 to 3 times her age, among other things) AND be the old guy who sticks his dick in her. You can be one or the other, but not both.

Gawker never seemed to get this, even when she flat out told him that she thought he was just trying using her. Instead he would lecture her one minute about her lifestyle choices and then try to wheedle sex out of her the next, all the while never seeming to the contradictory nature of those behaviors. I see this same defect in understanding with certain people who post on usasexguide when they talk for one minute about the different ways they fucked a young drugged up girl, and then later in the story regal us with how noble they were at the end when they offered her their sage life advice.

Hey, I get it. Some guys struggle with the notion that satisfying their sexual drives may be adding to some young girl's problems, so they cope with that internal conflict by adoption the Noble Pervert self perception. But that is all in their own minds. In reality, they are getting what they want from these girls and causing as much harm as much as anyone else.

^ Sorry for the grammar errors above - I was typing too fast.

If you truly want to help a girl in a bad situation then just help her and resist your urge to leverage sex out of her. Otherwise, just own what you really are and move on.

Well father figure is another thing entirely. To me I can separate it. Most former favs I have a good relationship with, I’m a guy yeah I want to get laid, but I’m not fucking monster, yeah I’d try to get them stratigraphy. It sounds like you don’t have that kind of relationship with this person and that’s understandable. And yeah I’m not denying there are dudes that are helping just to get in her pants. But then there are dudes that would like to help and also get in her pants. The two can be mutually exclusive.

Yeah I was in this thread earlier and I also originally thought it was about an OD death but it's no problem that I have to complain about it.

Muddy, I don't think we are on the same wave length here in terms of what "help" means. Can you do a favor for her of one type of another? Maybe share your thoughts and intel on topical matters that she might find useful? Sure. Can you have a good long-term relationship with a favorite that includes some level of shared affection and respect? Of course.

But for a girl who has gone down the rabbit hole of drugs or other self-destructive behaviors, can you ever be the guy that helps pull her out of it and/or helps her turn her life around? No. First and foremost, you are the old dude who wants her pussy and you are a source of income that she uses to fund her bad behavior. If you believe that you can truly be anything more meaningful than that to a girl in this situation then you're kidding yourself.

I guess I’m not old enough to see it like that. I would still be considered a “peer” at this point. And it depends who it is.

Rick is helping by not being enabler, so who is really the monster?

I'm not completely without compassion, but I also know that a customer will almost never be the one to talk a dancer off of any sort of personal ledge. The relationship is generally too self serving (on one or both sides) for it to be otherwise.

Is it an absolute impossibility?... no. But I wouldn't take those odds in Vegas.

For the record, I never thought that Gawker's ATF stories were "great" or "entertaining". They always left me feeling sad.

I have no idea if Gawker is in here. It's fine if he is. I've said the same thing to him both in threads and via private messaging.

@Muddy9
Don’t sweat the small stuff Rick has no peers I mean he’s so far above all of us PLs here. ;)

You can't love or support an addict. You will never be more important the addiction. Most need to hit rock bottom before they realize they need to change. Even wanting to quit isn't enough. Most will admit they're just not ready and like the drugs too much.

I just joined this thread and first, I’m not jerking off over Rick Dugan’s lament. I also know and have readily admitted to my own hypocrisy in trying to “ help” and fuck an addict at the same time. I’m living proof that it doesn’t work. However, things aren’t black and white when it comes to either drugs or matters of the heart. Any addict who is going to get sober must do so his or her self. No one else can, short of incarceration. (And the one time my ATF was in state prison, she bought coke there)When my ATF has repeatedly verbalized a desire to get clean; when she has kept going back to detox over & over, and yet failing to change the behavior, all I’ve been able to do is to put her in the best position to succeed.
I once stopped taking her calls. Would not give a penny. Stopped supporting in any way. Within a week she had left detox, was homeless, got raped by a coke dealer and attempted suicide. Terribly sad. Every story I know of addiction is sad. I’ve been dealing with it in many ways and forms for years and years. I’m fascinated by the stance Portugal has taken, legalizing ( or de-criminalizing) all drugs. Counter intuitively addiction rates have plummeted.
I’ve heard many addicts admit that if you tell me I can’t have something, then I want it more. We all want what we cannot have. There’s an organization that I know of called “Fuck the Stigma”. Addiction is stigmatized almost as much as stripping. Read the posts above. Think of the stigma attached to this medical condition.

Related... drug consumption rooms in Denmark.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/commen…

decriminalizing drugs just makes addiction a health crisis not a criminal crisis so in countries with national health care systems people get the treatment they need.

I'm guessing a lot of our money spent at SCs goes to illegal drugs. Yeah weed is the most by far.... most dancers just keep it together enough to perform well enough while they are "working"

weed isnt illegal everywhere

I really had no problem with legalizing most drugs until we passed obamacare.... now if you fuck around on some bad drugs then I'm gonna pay your healthcare for the rest of your life????? Bullshit, now I am in favor of banning McDonalds, ban anything that is unhealthy so the premiums will get cheaper

Interestingly the term noble pervert is super old. I think the original story is where the PL takes in a homeless young prostitute. He cares for her expecting that one day she will love him, of course she doesn't. He get's angry and calls her a bitch (or the 16th century russian equivalent).

As far as the specific debate about noble perversion debate between Muddy and Rick Dugan I come down in the middle between the two of you. Can a PL help a dancer with something in their life, absolutely. Can a PL help a addict dancer get clean, possibly. But a PL should never expect anything in return for their actions. And should be aware 99% of the time helping an addict is really not helping them. And I would totally agree with Dugan that taking personal satisfaction for helping an addict is delusional.