How To Become Wealthy (Or At Least Comfortable)

You need to do what Willie Sutton did, go to where the money is.

I do it with $100,000/Yr, I'm a Union Pipeliner/Steamfitter . I made $167,000 up in Philadelphia last year, and I live frugally. Don't be a fool, women are beautiful but you still need to save for retirement,a house,etc don't be one of the guys who has nothing.

Last year I had sex with over 300 women, whom I gave $100-$150-$200 for full service. I don't do any street walkers and I have a few regulars.

I know everyone doesn't have $45,000-$50,000 to blow but, you don't need as much as you think. Some of these mongers pay for rent and all the stuff you don't need to do.

We may have found another Juice disciple here.

Some of us get lucky and have a job that pays much more than what we are worth. With all that excess money some of us put it into bitcoin, some on chackin and four loko, others blow it on weed and strippers. All of the above are wise investments IMO.

Budget your money for mongering expenses just as you would for any other expense.....if you don't budget start doing it.

The basic formula for creating wealth over time is:

1. Build your skills through continuous education, including college degrees and/or certifications. Invest in yourself. Build your knowledge and capabilities.

2. Develop multiple streams of income. If you don’t have a high income from your job, add a side hustle or two.

3. Live frugally, well within your means. Save at least 15% of your income. View strip clubs as a source of entertainment. Balance is key. Think with your big head, not your small head. Pay your bills first, and stick to an affordable clubbing budget.

4. Take full advantage of tax-advantaged savings programs (401k, 403b, IRA, etc.).

5. Carefully invest savings in income-producing assets, including stocks that pay dividends and small businesses. Be very picky, as startups have a very high failure rate!

6. Manage downside financial risk through an emergency fund and various types of insurance, including: health, life, home, auto, and disability.

7. Build a strong network of contacts in your area of expertise so that you can land a new job or customer quickly when necessary.

Regardless of income level, a disciplined saver can accumulate wealth over time. Best of luck to you!

^ Most here can they were smart enough not to get into pharmaceutical sales, that’s prolly why you can’t find a good job. Tell me how much longer are you on probation?

Without knowing what type of work you do, experience you have, and education, any advice offered would be speculative and superficial.

If you know what you want to do, and you can describe it, then we can offer more useful insight.

At a very high level -

1. Invest as much of each paycheck in tax deferred savings (401K). Make sure you take advantage of the company match portion of your 401k. Don’t even think about taking the money out.

2. Don’t change jobs until you determine what you want to do over the long term. A new job might provide a jump in income - but it might not be worthwhile over the long term.

3. Remember things change - often without notice - so don’t burn any bridges. Make as large a network of colleagues as possible. Don’t think anyone isn’t going to help your career - as the folks you may not see much benefit from - may help you out when you need it most.

4. If you make any career changes so you can monger more - you are a complete fool! After you’ve established a nest egg - with money set aside for many rainy days (actually rainy months) - mongering is going to be another way to piss away your money.

It sounds harsh - but it’s true.

ToyChaser said (in this thread): "I do it with $100,000/Yr, I'm a Union Pipeliner/Steamfitter ."

ToyChaser said "How do you mongers feel about me being LE that P4P?" indicating on this linked thread that he's a traffic cop.

tuscl.net

So, you're a full time cop and pipe fitter? Huh. Surprised you have enough time to fuck 300 women per year.

^Nah that’s plenty of time for a bullshitter to bullshit. lol

Ishmael - I remembered that post - and it doesn’t make sense to me.

I’m guessing he’s neither.

As far as the number of women he’s fucked this year - I’m thinking he uses the Wilt Chamberlain formula. So 300 women in one year is quite attainable. Paying those whores is where everything comes off the rails!

Every job PhatBoy lists is illegal. Pimping Drug dealing Muscle to get losers to pay Fencing chopped car parts

Impressive - I can see why you attract the ladies!

I strongly suspect that both PhatBoy99 and ToyChaser are the same bullshitter.

@phat boy everybody is a product of their environment, I’ll be willing to bet that many more from your environment didn’t get into trouble than did. Basically you are full of excuses, you’d do better to expend the same amount of energy pursuing legitimate, sustainable goals rather than always taking the easy way out.

Uh huh.

Point to one example of someone actually needing a reason to troll / bullshit TUSCL.

Yeah I am starting to think phatboy might be a troll. Also I really hope toychaser is a troll as some of what he posts is pretty sick.

I would agree with phatboy that parting out cars is a good way to make side cash.

My answer to you phatboy is nothing worthwhile is easy to most people, in other words you’re just full of excuses.

Click on email links and website to ads that promise how you can can turn $100's into millions.

1. many on the board are older-guys that have been at it for a couple of decades - i.e. it may have taken them a while to get to where they are now and be able to do the things they do

2. one can say most people can fall into 2 "broad" categories - entrepreneurs and those that gotta work for someone else - there are people that just have a knack for business, but most people gotta find a job and work for someone - most people that make a decent living have at least a college Bachelors degree and these days often a Masters degree - and also the type of degree matters; e.g. a Business Admin Bachelors or Criminal Justice Bachelors, etc, often pay enough to barely keep a roof over one's head and have transportation; especially starting out - a college degree is not absolutely necessary; there are certain trades that require a year or two and some certification where there is a demand and one can make decent $$$ - IMO one is good-at at what they like - i.e. it's probably not worth it to get into something just b/c of the $$$ if one does not have the disposition for it - often times people are successful b/c they choose something that's a good match for their particular talents - if one is good at what they do they can often become successful - i.e. don't just "get a job" or just "have a job" - you need to acquire skills so you don't have to get whatever job you can

The key to wealth is discipline. Build skills. Live frugally. Invest for the long term.

All this requires personal discipline. Not everyone can do this.

Read The Millionare Next Door. An oldie but a goodie.

One often has to put in the work ahead of time in order to be in a position to take advantage of opportunities down the line - most folks on here that are doing well now probably worked very hard when they were starting out to get to where they are now; it probably wasn't handed to them or that "they got lucky".

b/c of all the baby-boomers retiring, the health-care field is gonna be booming over the next 2-decades - perhaps there are opportunities there and a myriad of possible related jobs other than just a nurse or doctor - again - I think it should be something that's a good match for you if possible b/c that will probably give you a better at being success full at it.

If you don't see a future in your current job/career, then start thinking about what you need to do to get into something w/ more potential.

None of the answers thus far are adequately fundamental, in my opinion. OP wishes to acquire more money at a greater rate. OP asked, “What are my options?”

So, what are the ways, fundamentally, that money can come into one’s possession? Well, it can be manufactured from raw materials, or existing money can be moved from one location to another location within one’s control.

This begs the question, “what is money?” I recently listened to a podcast in which Jim Grant, author of Grant’s Interest Rate Observer, was interviewed about the state of the global economy. He said a lot without saying much at all. At the end of the interview he concluded by posing the same query to himself, “what is money?” His reply? “I haven’t got a clue.” Of course, he was being a little facetious.

If you truly want more money, you must increase your understanding of the nature of money. That is, you must increase your understanding of the nature of humans, because money manifests itself out of the comings and goings and doings of humans. The more you understand people, and the more people you understand, the more money you can earn.

^What FTS just said is gobbledegook, I think what he was trying to say is all activity is economic, so make the best of your endeavors.

It's not about shared views. You sound like a cartoon caricature of stripper boyfriend. I could be wrong, but for your sake I hope I'm not.

If reading my gobbledegook enlightens the OP enough to acquire vast sums of money, then your writing is less useful to the OP than my “gobbledegook.”

And perhaps it is only gobbledegook to you. Did you not attend any university? I stand by what I say: money is a human phenomenon. Why else do the rock stars and the Hollywood actors make so much money? Is it not due to their ability to perform in such a way so as to produce strong emotions in those who observe their performance? Their performance is finely tuned for a human audience!

@FTS don’t be so sensitive;)

FTS wrote: “If you truly want more money, you must increase your understanding of the nature of money. That is, you must increase your understanding of the nature of humans, because money manifests itself out of the comings and goings and doings of humans. The more you understand people, and the more people you understand, the more money you can earn.”

Awesome advice. Note some variation of the word “understand” was mentioned 4 times. People who gain understanding, particularly about money, have a greater opportunity to build wealth.

Change jobs. The longest I ever stayed at a job was 6 years, and I made 20k more than when I started, must of that was via a bonus. I stayed at a job 5 years and only made 9k more. First time I changed jobs I made an extra 20k, 2nd time was for an additional 16k, 3rd time I made an additional 40k. some people stay at the same place for 20 or 30 years and they do make more money, and probably have a better position, but chances are if they changed jobs a few times, they'd be better off.

My advice is to stay away from strip clubs when you're young. Work like a dog for 40 years in whatever you're good at. Save and invest as much as you can. When you're in your 60's, you will have accumulated a lot of money and you can blow it all on strippers. That's what I did.

Or you can become a stripper's boyfriend and smoke weed all day and screw your stripper girlfriend and her stripper friends. This sounds like a better plan.

"OP wishes to acquire more money at a greater rate. OP asked, “What are my options?”

Well it's too late to get in on the Lufthansa heist so maybe rob a bank or hijack a Brinks truck?

Some of the comments are hilarious, especially from the trolls that think we are too ignorant to spot their trolling and continue to deny.

That said, there is some good long term advice here. Smart money management, education, and self control are at the top.

I have multiple degrees acquired over a period of decades that were not easy, but were geared toward career advancement. I also sacrificed my first job choice in favor of a higher income. Found that I am best working for someone else, building wealth slow and steady.

Tried to be a business man as I saw that as the fast track, but I suck at business. So I relegated myself to s steady income, doing better than my best every day, working to make the boss look good, be an uncomplaining member of the staff, and help others along the way. I worked for a big company and supervisors fought to have me on their staff, because I was skilled, helpful to others, shed office politics, and never shied from a nasty assignment saying “its not my job.”

As a result, I retired early with enough wealth to enjoy life, including mongering.

Its not complicated and it isn’t easy, especially being nice to those who are not so nice to you.

Besides the medical field, someone posted a while back about there being a shortage of pilots and perhaps even air traffic controllers, won't make you wealthy but should provide a decently comfortable life especially if you're able to secure a job with a good pension benefit

@ToyChaser, I'm fairly certain is neither a cop or a pipefitter. I'm thinking a greeter at Wal-Mart. And as far as fucking 300 women a year, it's more likely that he's jacked off on the toilet seat 300 times in a year.

lol. Theres a song about Kevin gates having 2 phones, I got 2 jobs. One for the bills, One for the Ho's.

DC9428, You need to try Chez joeys (Dayshift) and Oasis (Nightshift) especially Friday or Saturday all them girls in there dont make money like that. Your missing out on some good looking girls.

great great advice by lots of TUSCLers in this thread. Thank you.

There are a good majority of the girls at Ebony Inn who will let you blow them out for $100, most of them are 19 and work at wendys part time. What you should really do is, meet them at the club then meet them OTC to go shopping. Most of them have never had a coat from Nordstroms that cost $180...

You could make a good side income as the pimp sending girls to the guy fucking 300 girls a year. at 200 a visit, that's $60000 a year revenue.

@orionsmith, closer to 45000-50000 side, like i said most will do it for $100-$150

seriously anybody looking for a good prostitute hit my inbox, I know all the hoes in the dmv/Baltimore area and I am always looking for better ones. I know a couple up in Philly/York area but, some of the ones up 795 near littlestown/gettysburg are niether here nor there in the looks department

Thank you everyone for your comments. I hope this thread will be a useful resource for others as well.

@ twentyfive

I steal hearts not money. Just kidding, of course.

@ ToyChaser

How you were you able to get a union job like that? I've heard those type of jobs are hard to get into.

@ PhatBoy99

My cousin is a pharmacist and makes $70.00 an hour. Unfortunately, I think a lot of people jumped on the pharmacy band wagon because my cousin has been getting her hours cut to part time since there are so many pharmacists looking to be hired. Still makes more money than me though.

@ rickdugan

What is a "Juice disciple?" All I know about Juice is that he likes chicken fingers, but I am not partial to them.

@ shailynn

You mentioned Bitcoin. Are cryptocurrencies really a valid way of investing or are they basically a meme that's going to crash and burn in a couple of years?

@ Warrenboy75

Any recommended resources when it comes to budgeting?

@ HungryGiraffe

Thank you for your tips. What degrees/certificates do you think are worth getting? Also, what side hustles to supplement my income would you recommend? I have auto insurance as well as health/life through my employment.

You mention things like "dividends" and "start ups" and "tax advantaged savings programs." All of those words are foreign to me. Do you have any resources you would recommend so I can learn about the concepts you are talking about?

@ Cashman1234

Thank you for your tips. Here is a little bit about myself: I am a mostly heterosexual male between the ages of 20-30. I currently work a very dry 8-5 office job that includes healthcare, basic life insurance, and semi-decent opportunities for advancement. The money will likely never be that great if I stay though. Previous to that I had a couple of years of experience in the service industry doing menial tasks. I have no certificates and no degrees. I am an irresponsible college drop out. No wife or children though. Sometimes I wish I had a girlfriend so I could make side income having sex on camera for tips, but apparently the pay is not all that great.

You mention a 401K. I believe I can sign up for one with Fidelity through my employer. That said, I have one co-worker who recommends I open up a Roth-IRA and another co-worker who thinks I should open up a personal 401K though Fidelity so I can have more control over it. When people talk money I get lost. Any resources you would recommend to learn about these type of things?

@ Papi_Chulo

You mention finding a career based off of one's talents. How does one go about finding out what one's talents are? I can clap with one hand. Does that count?

@ Uprightcitizen

"Millionaire Next Door." Any other recommended reading?

@ FTS

To understand money I must understand humanity. How do I learn to understand humanity?

@ General

How did you know when to change jobs to make more money? Did you just job search until you found a job you liked better?

@ jackslash

Your advice is sound, but unfortunately I've already had a taste of the lifestyle. Total abstention is just not a possibility.

I actually do wonder how a guy becomes a stripper's boyfriend. Most of these guys are not handsome, not wealthy, not talented, and most seem lazy. What is their secret? If I could land a stripper girlfriend I would at least maintain the home while she was out earning money.

@ taxi_driver

Thank you for the tips. "Taxi Driver" is one of my favorite movies and Scorsese is probably my 2nd favorite director of all time. Right behind Stanley Kubrick.

I don't even have a first portfolio much less a second one. Where do I start?

"I'm currently dollar cost averaging into dividend paying securities that do not have strong correlations and I'm re-balancing on a quarterly basis. My holdings include GOVT, FAX, KBWY, PXSV, IEV. I'm double-weighted in GOVT for safety and preservation of capital."

This paragraph completely lost me. What do I need to know to understand what you are telling me?

@ tahoecruz

Thank you for the tips. How long did you work at your company before you were able to retire? Seems like your hard work and perseverance paid off and now you get to enjoy the fruits of your labors.

I'm not sure I have a mind for business myself. Funny enough, my grandfather was a very talented businessman who quit school when he was 12 to work as a paperboy and eventually amassed a fortune before passing away early in his 40s. Sadly, much of that money was lost to the family due to some unfortunate circumstances. What I do know was that he was supposedly one of the most cold-blooded people in my family, but maybe that's what is needed to succeed on your own.

ToyChaser said "lol. Theres a song about Kevin gates having 2 phones, I got 2 jobs. One for the bills, One for the Ho's."

Sure. Uh huh. Full-time pipe fitter and cop having sex with 300 women per year. You're a troll.

I have a sibling who is really rich and not "rich" like the people here. I am talking 4 homes rich; many cars rich; boats, Harleys, plane, commuting to his "job" using his own plane, palm beach rich. His lifetime expenditure on strip clubs is probably 5k. Instead of pissing away money as we all do, he works hard and spends time with family and friends. Not the life for me, but no one here is really rich and no, making $ 167,000.00 a year is nowhere near rich in my world. Rich is working in a burger shack when you're a kid and then owning 15 five guys franchises, not as your job, but as a non-working hobby, because you always wanted to make burgers.

^ Educate me.

Is that considered a humble brag or a douche brag? It doesn't seem humble so I'm thinking he's just a douche.

Am I starting to understand the concept?

EchoPizza - there are many videos online - and some are available on Fidelity and Vanguard websites. They can be very basic - and they should move at a reasonable pace.

You must attempt to focus when you watch these videos. This world is different now. This isn’t a world where pensions and lifetime healthcare are provided by employers after you’ve put in 30 years. This world puts the responsibility on the employee. Whether a person is financially savvy or not - it’s still their burden. The best thing to do is to start now. Don’t wait until you are comfortable - as time is important. Time allows for dividends to reinvest - and for dollar cost averaging to take effect - and time helps to level the highs and lows.

As has been suggested, when it comes to investing time is your best friend.

If you're company offers a 401K plan then you need to look into that ASAP - many companies have a match where they'll match up to 4% of your pay for example, i.e. if you invest 4% of your paycheck the company puts in another 4% so its a no brainer bc the company is giving you free $$$ to invest that o/w you're leaving on the table - HR should be able to give you info

If you really want to become wealthy, that has to be your mantra24/7 otherwise best you can do is become comfortable even very comfortable is very different from real wealth, as you seem to measure it. My own take on my wealth is more about having good family relationships, with my children, a great many friends, and the fact that I have been blessed with good health, at my age when so many are dealing with the diseases of aging, like diabetes, hypertension, ED etc. I have none of these problems, my children are healthy and doing well, have enough disposable income to play the way I like, certainly makes me feel wealthy.

Well, this gets into a whole other Pandora's box involving quality of life versus quantity of cash. Because those two things are just as often antagonistic as complimentary.

skibum ---I used to have this conversation on another board with people all of the time. The difference between rich and wealth.....rich = professional athletes wealth= owners of professional teams.

I will never be wealthy by my own standards of measurement but I live a comfortable lifestyle. And yes, I spend more than 5 K a year on women in one form or another year in year out. I try not to think about it but it's pretty obvious I could have purchased that second ( or third home in my case) with the money I have spent on women over the last 25 years.

Real Wealth is not defined by what a person makes in a year but what resources they have available to them at any given time. If I recall a few years back Warren Buffet made a big splash by his statement that he paid less taxes than his secretary because in reality she made more money a year than he did.

I've never been a 1%er, ever..........but I have been in the 2.5% range for the better part of two decades.......and to me that is the best way to build wealth, by consistently sustaining a level of income directly or indirectly for 10-25 years and learning to live well within your means.

If you are asking me I have always invested using a "value" approach and learned not to chase the DOW or any flash investment. Some people would say I have missed out on some great opportunities but I also went to Vegas two months ago and didn't hit 00 on the roulette wheel either.

I'm pretty much invested across the board but I started out with Mutual Funds until I had a base level amount invested and then started to look at other options such as stocks and bonds. Real estate and commodities came next, and eventually into limited partnerships.

I'm where I need to be so I've started to pull back in the last five years and cut down on risk and this is despite taking a hit in 2008/2009

You can also look into buying a house (if you can afford it since prices seem to be going up) and then getting roommates which can cover a good portion of the mortgage - the house can serve as an investment you can sell for a profit later on

Land without a home is cheaper partially because it's far more difficult / complex to get financing. Pretty often, financing is not available at all and requires an outright purchase at the negotiated price.

Wealthy people typically take years, decades, to build their wealth. Many of them also lose the bulk of their wealth at some point in their lives. For some, this roller coaster can go through several cycles.

They build a business based on a specific circumstance, like a technology or a niche in the market. Then, technology changes, or a big competitor steps in.

However, once someone learns how to become wealthy, it’s easier for them to repeat the process, assuming they have enough time.

The only folks who should even consider buying land are real estate developers. Other than developers - buying vacant lots is more of a headache than it’s worth.

Land should be purchased with a specific intention of development. If there is no structure on a lot - then a majority of the usefulness of the lot doesn’t exist. If you buy a shit home to refurb over time - you still have the utility of a place to live and sleep.

A vacant lot is fun for playing soccer on - but that’s basically it.

I've bought land twice and both worked out very well but there are some very particular circumstances you need to be aware of before doing it.........buying the land one or two parcels past the end of a dead end street is one smart play.

Buying land in a development when you live in an historic area and you notice the municipality is running new water and sewer lines is another ( chances are there will be a pause placed on developing new residential areas and only lots already approved and zoned for building will be able to have any construction done while the pause is in place)

If you don't know much about finances, buy a book by Suzy Orman - it won't make you a financial genius but will teach you the basics and from there you can learn more advanced stuff.

+1 on Suzy Orman---and she has you start with Mutual Funds as well --typically American Funds as I recall from memory. And before anyone says those funds carry a load/sales charge yes they do but if you buy and hold the management fee is less than the majority of no load funds. In about three years the cost of ownership evens out.

The so called "Financial Literacy" people, includidng Suzy Orman, are just mind fuckers. They want you to believe that you can invest yourself across the wealth gap. It really is not true.

And all Financial Literacy means is learning how to profit from divisions of labor.

SJG

@Taxi's first book recommendation RandomWalk is a classic that every young person should read.

Don't go to a financial advisor - most of them will sell you what's best for them vs what's best for you.

The greatest investor of all-times, Warren Buffet - recommends a quality low-cost (low-fees) ETF (Exchange Traded Fund) and then just forget/don't-worry about it and just ride-out the market (especially if you have a long investment horizon) - ETFs just follow the overall market.

As a newbie inexperienced investor:

1. participate in your company's 401k, especially if they have a matching option (it's free $$$) - also the $$$ one puts into a 401k helps with taxes - let's say one earns $40k/yr - if one puts $5k/yr into a 401k, then one only pays taxes on $35k

2. besides a 401k, the avg person often also invests in a Roth IRA - the advantage of a Roth IRA is that one can take out the $$$ (principal only) w/o any tax penalties whereas a 401k one has to wait till retirement to take out the $$$ else get heavily penalized - w/ a Roth you can take out the principal penalty-free - i.e. if you've put in 10k over time and those $10k have grown to $12k for example, you can take the $10k you put in w/o penalty but if you take the whole $12k you get taxed on the $2k your account earned/accrued

I'm beginning to go along more and more with Robert Kiyosaki. Though I have just started reading his stuff and I know that I don't go along with him on everything, he does speak to some things I have held true and dear for decades! Financial securities are not assets, they are liabilities.

An asset is something which give you income. And the best protection against inflation is current income, not cash that has been tied up in liabilities.

As I see it there are basically three forms of income:

1. Job pay

2. Proceeds and appreciation from investments

3. Entrepreneurship.

Now, most people are accustomed to #1 and will have some involvement with it. But except for the case of most fitting truly professional careers, it is a dead weight.

For #2, this is the main con game, putting money into things you really no nothing about and have no control over. It is a back patting society. It soaks up money which could be better used in #3. Its just a stupid way to live.

#3 is the jewel, the one most people have not learned enough about, it is the one where you have to draw upon all of your skills and all of the skills of your closest associates.

#2 is bullshit. #3 is the most fun and most promising way.

SJG

Mark Farrell, new San Francisco Mayor en.wikipedia.org

sfmayor.org

But in June, London Breed was elected, and she sounds fantastic! nytimes.com

en.wikipedia.org

Remember that SJG has no income, no investments, and his entrepreneurship consists of creating a fictitious organization which has no members. I’d take his advice on selecting a van to live in down by the river - but that’s about it.

^^^^^ Cashman, when you ASS U ME, you make an ass out of you and me.

SJG

SJG said "I'm beginning to go along more and more with Robert Kiyosaki."

Kiyosaki is a scam artist selling snake oil and you're a twat.

thecollegeinvestor.com

EchoPizza, I highly recommend YouTube as a source for learning about all the items you’re unclear about. Usually the first few results will give you a good overview of a topic.

My favorite books about building wealth are:

1. “Think and Grow Rich” by Napoleon Hill
2. “Multiple Streams of Income: How to Generate a Lifetime of Unlimited Wealth” by Robert G. Allen

I also recommend Juice's seminal work "How To Build An Empire On Chacken Fangers" and his followup tome "The Power Of Four Loko"

I'm really liking the responses that have been generated by the thread. Lots of solid tips and ideas, and not just for myself but for other readers as well.

@ Cashman1234

Thank you for the encouragement. Fidelity has articles and videos on their site about investing and saving money. I might make an appointment with an advisor at least once so I can set up an account and see if my employer will match any contributions.

@ Warrenboy75 @ Papi_Chulo @HungryGiraffe @taxi_driver

Thank you for the recommendations for resources.

@san_jose_guy

I see Robert Kiyosaki has written several books. Which one would you consider his best work?

Echo one thing to consider is your tolerance for risk, which will determine almost every long term move you make as it relates to money.

Following the advice of others through books and or videos sounds great until the sh*t hits the fan--like I mentioned in 2008/2009.

Also learn to trust what you see around you and how it relates to good investments or trends, up and down.

I got hit during the last downturn but not as bad as a lot of people because I started to notice a few things that made little or no sense going on.....loans of 110% for instance to young couples for a new house when their credit sucked --no down payments--taking out multiple loans on the same house.

Once the dust settled having cash to buy on the dip and being confident in what you stuck your money into helped me recover and then some.

The most important piece of advice I ever received was, if they need sales person to sell it be skeptical.

Start with Robert Kiyosaki's first book, Rich Dad, Poor Dad, 1996. But there is now a new edition.

Remember though, my endorsement is only partial.

SJG

@ Warrenboy75

Thank you for the advice. My co-worker recommends Motley Fool as a resource. It seems like it's really popular, and it says following their stock tips has helped him quite a bit.

@ san_jose_guy

Thank you for the book recommendation. I haven't been given this many reading assignments since I was in high school.

Echo, here is a book I can recommend with zero reservations:

amazon.com

SJG

I am also reading about Elon Musk. What separates Elon Musk from me? When Musk graduated from college he started his first company. He was ready for that.

When I graduated from college, I got a job. I was surrendering to social pressure, so that was all I was ready for.

SJG

@EchoPizza Motley Fool is just a bunch of touts, read some of Jim Cramer’s books if you want some genuine insight into the workings of the stock market, but then do your own research, don’t ever use a tip as a recommendation without researching it first, you have no way of knowing their motives.

^^^^^^ Stock prices are determined in large measure by institutional fund managers and their moves. Almost impossible that you could ever know anything about a particular issue which they do not already know, and hence is not already reflected in current prices.

Stock market is a deficit funded gov't entitlement program.

SJG

^Why don’t you shut the fuck up 20,000 fucking posts yet not a single new idea. You are a gigantic bore.

^^^^^^^^^^ target.com

SJG

@ san_jose_guy and twentyfive

Thank you both for your recommendations. I hope this thread will be a valuable resource for all of the posters on this board. A rising tide should lift all ships or whatever they say.

@EchoPizza, I agree this is a good thread. I found some value in reading the responses. Thanks to all who posted.

@EchoPizza:

I’m reading Tony Robbins “Money: Master the Game” but it’s like 616 pages. I’m about 200 pages in so far. It’s a decent introductory read to money and wealth but, no, it won’t explain the cryptic terms (acronyms) used elsewhere on Tuscl. I’ll probably try some of @Twentyfive’s recommendation of Jim Cramer’s books next though they are in a library across town.

There’s some GOOD nuggets in this Money: Master the Game book. But there’s some NOT SO GOOD stuff I’m not quite sure I agree with, probably because Tony’s a self help guru and not a really money professional. So I can recommend it with 3.5 or 4.0 stars out of 5 but no more than that. I like it better than Rich Dad / Poor Dad.

One thing he gets into, is asset mix to avoid the downside/downturn, and still get the upside (though not all the gains, because the mix isn’t as aggressive). Also avoiding active management account fees. And try to own-the-whole market, like S&P 500 index fund. The strategy is WEALTH PRESERVATION.

The strong recommendation is someone making $30k should save and invest 5% minimum for the long haul, but plan on saving more. $50k should do 10%, no excuses, but plan on saving more. But everyone should really try to save as much as possible, ideally saving 50% (half!) of what you earn, mostly in stocks in the form of own-the-whole-market low fee index funds (like Vanguard started) instead of fee loaded mutual funds. Tony seems to think a bond-mix shields the investor from downsides.

The other strong recommendation is to use a Registered Investment Advisor (RIA) and not a stock broker. The former has a fiduciary (meaning legally bound to give advise in the best interest of the client) whereas the latter is not strictly fiduciary bound (instead of his own interest or the interest of the firm).

The final lesson is saving early and often and let compounding interest do its thing. Though realistically you need at least 10 years for it to do it’s thing. So it’s not an overnight-get-wealthy-hack so I-can-monger-TJ-and-buy-hookers lifestyle, if that’s what you’re after.

It’s more like Vin Diesel’s “FIVE HUNDRED” soliloquy from the film Knock Around Guys (as Taylor).

Taylor: 500 fights, that's the number I figured when I was a kid. 500 street fights and you could consider yourself a legitimate tough guy. You need them for experience. To develop leather skin. So I got started. Of course along the way you stop thinking about being tough and all that. It stops being the point. You get past the silliness of it all. But then, after, you realize that's what you are.

^^^ I guess generating wealth is sort of like that too. Wealth does stop being the point. Then after a while, you realize that (being wealthy) is what you are. :)

Here’s some random quotes from the book:

@TonyRobbins wrote:

“Anyone’s who’s become truly wealthy knows the truth — the only way to become wealthy, and stay wealthy, is to find a way to do more for others than anyone else is doing in an area that people really value.” (191)

“Money is nothing more that a reflection of your creativity, your capacity to focus, and your ability to add value and receive back. If you can find a way to create value — that is, value for a massive number of people — you will have an opportunity to have a massive amount of economic abundance in your life.” (191)

“Maybe your story is “it takes money to make money.” One of the first people I shared an early version of this book with had a core belief of “I will never be financially free unless I have a way to make a lot of money. People who start with a lot of money can make millions but not me.” After she read the chapter on building your own money machine with Theodore Johnson — who never made more than $14,000 a year (Juice money) yet turned it into $70 million over his lifetime — her story went out the window. Theodore wasn’t lucky. He used a simple system.” (192)

^^^ Save half his income, invest it in the market for a lifetime (10, 30, 60 years).

“I went from earning less than $38,000 a year to more than $1 million a year in just a little more than a year later.” (198)

^^^ Oddly enough Tony doesn’t expand on that little nugget. Not sure how people would generate that much value to someone else so quickly.

“If you are self-motived, wow, this world is tailored for your. The boundaries are all gone.” (34)

“The secret to wealth, remember? Do more for others than anyone else does.” (25)

“Still think you can earn your way to financial freedom?” (52) “(50 Cent) summed up (Floyd Mayweather’s) financial strategy in plain terms: “It’s fight, get the money, spend the money, fight. Fight, get the money spend the money, fight.” Sound like a ridiculous strategy? Unfortunately, we can all relate at some level, Work, get the money, spend the money, work — it’s the American way!” (54)

Education, as a likely way to wealth? Idiotic advice, IMO. I've got three advanced degrees and yet I've never made a legitimate "living wage" that would add up to anything most of you on this board would care to accept as decent pay. Let me put it differently:

Since I personally cannot perform for 40 hours a week, and I personally cannot attend to a workplace regularly, especially not in those early hours of the morning, without wishing (literally; this is not a figurative description) to purchase a gun and slaughter co-workers, I believe that working for someone else is a bad plan for me.

Get TRAINING. Don't get education. If you want a high income, don't go to a small liberal arts college and learn about Art History, don't learn French to read the poetry, don't find out about your society's history, don't think about how Donald Trump and the New Alt Right fit into the longer-term trends of America's continual self-immolation at the hands of Puritanical instincts that have "been with us since the start," don't become EDUCATED.

Get a technical skill. Or several. The college professors will lie lie lie to you, that there will "always be good opportunities" for people who can write, people who can think critically, people who are interested in a variety of disciplines, people who can cross-over from one demographic to another. They'll tell you that you need cultural literacy in order to survive. They'll say you should work on your people skills, learn to appreciate cultures different from your own, develop broadened horizons.

Then, with your English Major in hand, you'll be offered $12,000 a year no benefits. And the asshole bigot who hates the Chinese ("because their eyes are funny, dumb ass, why not?") but can write marginally well in C-plus-plus, never finished college, and thinks "Murka First" means our country should be declared winner of the World Cup Of Everything Including But Not Limited To Soccer, will work at the same company for literally $120,000 a year and be free to arrive late, leave early, and treat his boss to derision regularly.

The economy speaks louder than the professors. We do NOT put our money where our mouth is, as far as what the professors advise. Ignore the asshole professors. Get TRAINED, and ESCHEW all attempt at education. The less educated you are, the more likely you will have a tolerably lucrative live.

Are you in the humanities, opening your mind, learning to accept challenges, wishing to grow and change to become a better person, using education to get to these laudable goals? Fuck you, America hates you. You have to work early in the morning, late in the night, for less. And you have to act like you like it. And you have to "show your commitment." And you have to "be enthusiastic." And then the bigot programmer will be your boss and you might get a living wage and then he'll expect you to be thankful for it.

Really, seriously. To "make money" you must IGNORE the "right" way to do things and STOP THINKING THAT THE SYSTEM WORKS.

They lied to me, and I can't figure out how to get out from under those lies. Don't let it happen to you.

why is the concenus answer to wealth investing money (401K, stocks, ect...) how many more bubbles have to pop, before we stop accepting this as a truth.

Bulls Make Money, Bears Make Money, Pigs Get Slaughtered

Path of Least Resistance: Learning to Become the Creative Force in Your Own Life by Robert Fritz

amazon.com

Someone turned by on to this 25 years ago. I read some of it and was quite taken by it.

He talks about finding out what you want, and about avoiding motivationalism or goal setting, and just taking the easiest way, which is to do what you want. Generally I have tried to live this way too. I don't go along with motivationalism at all.

Also, Fritz is a musician, a composer. I have drawn much inspiration from this, because as he describes it, these are people who have to create, and on deadline. And so I have more tolerance for when there may be some music I don't really like. But also, I have been institutions where creating, in text, and on deadline, is a necessity. And so I know that you just do it, and it somehow works out.

I will have the book in hand in just a couple of days, and I will read it in its entirety.

What I did not know 25 years was anything about Aleister Crowley and his doctrine of Thelema, and this idea of meeting your Holy Guardian Angel when you progress to Tiphareth and discover your True Will. And then most of this is coming straight from the Golden Dawn.

wisdomsdoor.com

It seems like Fritz just about has to somehow be getting influenced by such, through some channel. And his stuff has a really interesting feel to it.

I noticed that he calls one of his things "DMA", and that he says that has something to do with Kabbalah.

SJG

Michael Moore In Trumpland youtube.com

Roger Waters - "Pigs (Three Different Ones)", Mexico City 2016, Zocalo Square youtube.com

Replying here especially to BookGuy, I think starting your own company is always best. And you educate yourself in order to do that. Liberal college educations are not bad, they help you learn to think. But running your own company will draw upon other things too.

The people who are trying to motivate you and leading you to believe that you can "invest" your way across the wealth divide, they are the worst sorts of mind fucking snake oil salesman. And Tony Robbins is one of the worst himself.

SJG

I never said the key to a great income was stock market based, I actually believe you should consider a trade, I started that way, then started a business, only then after growing my business to a good sizable income did I get some banking experience and began investing,as a way of making my money work for a living, instead of me having to bust my butt. This much I’ll tell you owning your own business is not for everyone, but saving your money and learning how to invest will eventually provide you with financial independence. You may not become rich as fuck but you can live comfortably within your means and have a decent life. Don’t pay attention to those idiots that think they know everything, be one of the smarter folks that learn something every day.

Invest in yourself, your own companies, or ones which you are going to run.

The self-improvement types stuff about "investing", motivationalism, like Tony Robbins, is just mind fucking. It is based on convincing you that you suffer from something like Original Sin.

And it also promotes right wing political thinking, and this is wrong, and I include fully Robert Kiyosaki in this.

SJG

san_jose_guy has not reviewed any places.************************** san_jose_guy has not commented on any reviews. Discussions: 204 Discussion Comments: 20,336 ************************ Not one positive comment san_jose_guy has not published any articles. Article Comments: 496

25 is still suffering from diaper rash.

SJG

Thank you for keeping this thread going everyone. Debate is healthy and how we learn new ideas.

@Dominic77

Thank you for the advice, and good luck on your journey to self-improvment. It's always easier to tear down than build up. The struggle is real.

@Book Guy

Ha ha! Don't worry. I promise you I am VERY uneducated. Thank you for relaying your personal experience. You seem like a very knowledgable person. Have you considered creating your own YouTube channel? The barrier of entry is free, the cost to operate is low, and if you don't feel comfortable creating artwork or doing voice work you can hire people for cheap at places like fiverr. There are people on YouTube right now making 5, 6, and even 7-figures making entertaining, concise, and informative videos on various subjects.

@Salty.Nutz

Thank you for brining different viewpoints to the conversation. You are a very honest poster.

@san_jose_guy and twentyfive

It seems like you guys are mostly in agreement. Learn some sort of skill then create a business. The investment part seems to be after someone has built a decent amount of capital.

^not in agreement at all he thinks that capital markets are a ponzu scheme because he’s just stupid, he also thinks that just anyone can be successful in their own business, I know that’s just plain wrong. There are many more failures than successes, the idea that your just going to start a business and be raking it in is ludicrous.

Doesn't have to be you alone running the business. Need a team, need to be part of a team.

Our financial markets are grossly inflated. They are Ponzi Schemes, they are the Ultimate Government Entitlement Program, run by progressive income tax gutting and deficit spending.

SJG

10 Warning Body Signs You Shouldn't Ignore youtube.com

The Path of Least Resistance, for Managers by Robert Fritz, forward by Peter Senge (1999)

So sounds like this is Fritz's 4th book, being a rewrite of his 3rd book, both speaking to the corporate world.

His ideas come across and it is good. But in my own experience, corporations, even most startups, are so screwed up that they could never even begin to hear any of this.

What I had meant to get was Fritz's first book:

amazon.com

Having read some of it when it first came out. And then maybe his second book, "Creating" 1991.

His ideas make more sense at a purely personal level. That vast majority of organizations are so screwed up that they could never benefit from such.

So now about Fritz's ideas, what am I looking for and why am I going back to this at this time? It is because I know more about the occult, about Aleister Crowley in particular. Fritz's ideas sound so similar.

Now he has used the name "DMA" for his work, and he says it has something to do with Kabbalah.

Otherwise what do we have?

So he talks about structural conflict leading to oscillations, where as structural tension leads to progress via the path of least resistance, and he seems to be talking about vision, and finding our what you really want. To me, this is so much like Crowley and the 19th century Golden Dawn.

So this is totally against motivationalism, like, I want to eat, but I want to lose weight. Rather, you develop a more comprehensive vision, and you come to see the structural things which work against it and need to be changed.

So again, is Fritz schooled in the occult, or something else like it? Still not sure.

SJG

book recommended to me:

Incorporate and Grow Rich

amazon.com

Theconservativetreehouse.com has an interesting perspective on what is happening in the economy.

In a nutshell, the multinational investment firms and the US economy have become increasingly disconnected from each other. The big banks can succeed even if the US economy fails. The banks make their money by betting on the direction of the economy, up or down. Much of their profits comes from speculative investing, not direct lending. These huge banks and funds own many of the establishment politicians in Washington.

Trump’s policies have tried to alter this by putting policies in place to encourage the return of regional banks. Many of these banks went out of business because of Dodd-Frank. These banks tie their success to the success of small and medium size businesses, especially manufacturers. Without traditional banks, most of these small and local businesses have been unable to find funding.

These two systems, the Wall Street investors and their politicians, plus the Main Street businesses and traditional banks, operate on parallel tracks. They have little to do with each other. One can succeed without the other.

Trump is putting policies in place to give the Main Street a path to success.

The multinational investment firms and the banks, and the stock market, have nothing to do with the well being of the US and the legitimate part of its economy. Been like this for a long time.

Keynesianism proved itself as the way to give Main Street a path to success. Even Richard Nixon said, I am a Keynesian.

SJG

WARNING - The following accounts are considered to be forum trolls and may not be trustworthy:

san_jose_guy - commonly referred to as SJG this forum member is widely mocked and considered potentially mentally unstable, his comments should NOT be taken in any way as legitimate

.Finished with:

The Path of Least Resistance, for Managers by Robert Fritz, forward by Peter Senge (1999)

He talks about finding out what you really want, finding your Dynamic Urges, and these go far beyond the present situation, and they go beyond mere appetites.

I agree with Fritz, and I have largely lived like he suggests for the last 25 years. Fritz talks at great length about the importance of corporate purpose, and I could not agree more.

I do though think that very few organizations will be able to benefit from what he says. It makes more sense at a purely personal level.

I'll be reading his first two books a bit later. Don't know if I will find in his works stuff which more clearly ties him to Western Occultism, but I am now convinced that that is where all his thinking is coming from, Kabbalah Magick.

SJG

Bob Seger - Mainstreet , the Sunnyvale Hip Hugger was so much like this. So too was Sporty's Bar ( formerly Candid Club, formerly Richard's Lounge, didn't even have a stage back then ) I always listened to this song before I had ever been into any such places.

Do you think the piano is an important part of this recording? I do. youtube.com

Bad Company - Shooting Star youtube.com

Bad Company youtube.com

live youtube.com

this is what I was looking for, live at Wembley 2010, and notice the clip from Thomas Edison's film youtube.com

"deserters we are called" I believe that a lot of the Western Bad Men were Confederate Deserters, not able to go home because they did not serve honorably.

And another song where the piano is essential.

@ mark94

Interesting perspective. I do know some small to medium-size business owners who are definitely not happy with Obamacare or Dodd-Frank. I'm not going to pretend I understand those laws and regulations, but from what I have heard a lot of them blame voters for not understanding that "corporation" and "business" is not just CostCo and Walmart but mom-and-pop shops and small business owners struggling to break even. I am sympathetic to those people.

@ san_jose_guy

You are always bringing a different perspective to things. What would you consider a legitimate part of the US economy?

The legitimate part of our economy serves actual needs, or it produce things of artistic value, or it advances the use of intelligence.

The other part, is just a Ponzi Scheme, promoting greed fear and ignorance, gambits to get cash flow, ways to make the rich richer and the poor poorer. 80% of paid employment is in this second sector, and it gets worse every year. The sooner it is gone, the better.

amazon.com

SJG

Will have in hand very soon:

The path of least resistance : learning to become the creative force in your own life / Robert Fritz

This is Fritz's original book.

SJG

The Jeff Healey Band - While My Guitar Gently Weeps (live) youtube.com

@EchoPizza

I read something about some tasks within certain white collar jobs, if not entire jobs themselves, are sometimes essentially worthless. Meaning the organization would literally not be worse off if no one did those tasks. He called them: "flunkies, goons, duct-tapers, box-tickers, and taskmasters." I've been trying to steer clear of any work that resembles that as I look for work.

newrepublic.com strikemag.org

ignore the parts about universal basic income or drinking 2 beers at lunch ;)

“The multinational investment firms and the banks, and the stock market, have nothing to do with the well being of the US and the legitimate part of its economy. Been like this for a long time.”

If this isn’t one of the all time most ignorant statements you’ve ever made I don’t know what you could ever say that would show your willfull ignorance ever. The main reason you are living hand to mouth and begging for pennies is your total lack of respect for anything that makes sense, I’m putting you back on ignore you just clutter this forum with the most useless nonsense. Bye now, lol

Twentyfive, more of his blood printed onto my privacy wall. That always means me having to go out the with Clorox and a wire scrub brush.

Before he lost consciousness he quoted me:

“The multinational investment firms and the banks, and the stock market, have nothing to do with the well being of the US and the legitimate part of its economy. Been like this for a long time.”

And that is entirely true.

Dominic77 is correct, much of white collar work is worthless, even more common than with blue collar or pink collar work. And what it comes down to is that there is no reason for these companies to exist.

What drives this is Capitalism, and the particularly in the reactionary direction it took with Reagan and with neo-liberalism and with the Financial Literacy and Financial Speculation movements.

As long as people can be made to feel that they are some how worth less as human beings if they are not rich, then the problem will continue to escalate as technology advances.

The only thing which will change this is education in Political and Economic Philosophy, political consciousness raising. This is the kind of education we desperately need.

Anyway, have long recommended this to everyone. And you don't need to have the newest edition either. The important part of the book is timeless. I once obtained lots of old editions from academic libraries to try and trace the author's thinking.

amazon.com

But though I recommend it constantly, very few people have shown themselves even capable of understanding what the author is saying. My ex-wife was not. And then of doing it, evenless.

And then also extremely good and something I try to live by:

amazon.com

And then the only book I have ever found which goes further:

amazon.com

SJG

Steely Dan Live 2006 Charlotte - HQ video youtube.com

So here in front of me:

The Path of Least Resistance by Robert Fritz.

I had read much of this over 25 years ago. Mostly I have been living it, and I do recommend it.

Really it is an anti-Motivational book.

Of my more recent thesis that this is occult inspired, by persons like Aleister Crowley or the Golden Dawn, I have to back off on. Don't think he is intending to endorse Thelema. I do not endorse this either.

But clearly Fritz has to be inspired by esoteric teachings. Though I cannot find a specific link.

He does though say this, on page 62

" Those who spend their lives destructively are not in touch with their power to create. Instead , the manifestation of evil throughout history has come in reaction to the inability, not the ability, to create. Power-wielding, manipulation, terrorism, militarism,and lust for power do not come from having power, but from not having power. "

and then on page 63

" ... course is occasionally conducted experimentally in high schools. Students are asked to list what they want. Usually they want results, such as jobs after school, boyfriends or girlfriends, guitars, motorcycles, cars ...

Before they had taken this course, these students had been taught by parents and teachers that they cannot create what they want. They have had ample direct experiences of their inability to create. If you come into their classroom and try to convince them that they can create what they want in life, they're more than eager to prove how wrong you are. ...

Their perception is well-founded. If they had not had the experience of creating what they really want, why should they believe they can do this?...

By the end of ... course, these students know they have the ability to create because they have done it. "

and on page xxiv

" I chose the letters D, M, and A. (DMA. Inc.) because of their Kabbalistic meaning. D stands for the creative intelligence, M stands for focused and free-flowing consciousness, and A stands for the life force or life breath (prana). Thus the creative force, through the vehicle of consciousness, brings forth the life force. ... "

pg 74 " For both men, the point of composing music was never the celebration of process but the artistic of expression of the musical vision. "

and then talk about "A Fuller Explanation", by Amy C. Edmondson, writing about Buckminster Fuller, and about his Octet Truss, and its patent and about his Syngergetic Geometry.

And then on page 75, giving priority to vision over process:

" It is best to allow processes to form organically from within the vision of the result. It is unwise to limit the way a result can happen by any given process. At the time you conceive the result you want, the actual way you will bring it about is always unknown to you, even if you have a hunch about it. "

Anyway, very interesting and provocative book.

SJG

TeX, anyone have any experience using this? Mathematical notation is quite complex, and historically computers have fallen way short.

tex.stackexchange.com

Steely Dan Live 2006 Charlotte - HQ video ( really good! ) youtube.com

Unapologetic: A Black, Queer, and Feminist Mandate for Radical Movements amazon.com.

From the Grassroots to the Ballot Box: How Gubernatorial Candidate Andrew Gillum Won in Florida democracynow.org