OTC

100%

Honestly, depends on the regular. When you say 'date only', does that just mean social time and nothing explicitly sexual?

He may keep spending ITC, but it's not uncommon for a guy to spend less ITC if there are also OTC meets. But, it evens out (usually) considering the OTC fees and what he gets OTC.

The risk of saying 'no' to OTC is that he goes looking for another dancer who will provide what he wants.

ITC will reduce.

From a customer perspective, I'd say about the same as if you don't.

I can tell you I've done both, or at least similar. I've spent on girls ITC, then decided I wanted to see them OTC. In some cases I've stopped spending ITC once we started OTC, in other cases I continued with both. Some times I've stopped spending ITC once I decided OTC wasn't going to happen. I've never really asked a girl out on a paid OTC "date only" though, when I want a date I make it clear & when I expect to pay for it I'm clear about that too. So, I may not be similar to your customer though.

You gotta try to figure out his end game. Asking you out on a paid date may be his way of getting you OTC for sex without making you feel like that's what its about, or he may genuinely interested in dating you and think that's the way to bridge the gap. Either he likes you and will continue to take what he can get spending either ITC or OTC, or he's looking to move OTC and is looking at his current ITC spending as a means to an end. There's really no way for you to know for sure, and its a very real probability he doesn't know. If he wants to date you, and you aren't interested, you can string him along as long as you can & know that it will end badly eventually. Or you can try to be honest with him and hope for the best, you may lose out on the cash you'd make while stringing him along or you may do better in the long run as he won't feel mislead. He may just want to fuck you OTC, but be willing to put in a date or two without it to get what he wants.

You're not real clear about what you want, I suppose you'd prefer to keep it ITC but are willing to take it OTC if it will keep the ITC cash coming?

Depends on the guy. Some guys will continue to spend ITC at the same rate, others will save it for OTC. Depending on how you do OTC, OTC will probably get you more cash that you get to keep instead of giving some to the club with ITC. You run risks with OTC, deny it and he may go find another dancer that will. Do OTC and he may get possessive even when in the club and affect your ability to make money from other guys (she's HIS girl rep...). Other thing is if the OTC fades or fails then you most likely have lost him as a customer completely, ITC and OTC. You also have to consider if he is serious about it just being a 'date', do you want that? is he someone you could/would date OTC? that could be a big win or a big mistake too.

I can only say what I would do. If I like a dancer ITC I will ask to meet her OTC, where we can have more fun in more privacy. If she sees me OTC I will also spend on her ITC. However, if she refuses OTC I will eventually move on to another dancer who will see me OTC.

Maybe, maybe not. But you have some influence over that.

First, even assuming this is a non-sex date, I hope you are still getting paid. He isn't paying you nearly enough ITC to be getting social dates for free. From there, assuming he wants a 2nd, 3rd, etc. date from you, make him come in and see you at the club to discuss it. Make how much he spends with you ITC dictate whether you say yes again. You don't have to be explicit about it - he will get the hint soon enough.

Remember, what he is really after is in your pants. If he doesn't get it on the first social date, but he otherwise enjoys his time with you, then he is much more likely to keep returning to the club until he does.

Never done OTC so no clue at all.

Ask him, lol. He may lie I suppose but every dude is so different you're not gonna know asking us.

I had one girl ask me exactly that, I told her to relax, some times I want ITC, some times I want OTC. If she's up for either, cool, if just one choice, also fine.

Your dude may be different.

@Dolfan, I really like his company and its a breakfast "date" so nothing too serious. I don't want to sound greedy but cash is king.

He hasn't expressed that he wants to have sex but he's seen me naked, I've already assumed that's what he wants eventually. Should I bring up sex and ITC spending or just wait until he does or maybe I'm jumping the gun? From everyone's comments, it sounds like OTC is already on his radar.

If you like this customer as he is doing an OTC date with him will change his expectations so I’d advise against it. That being said the few girls I’m regular with meet me outside often, prolly more than at the club. If you aren’t planning to be intimate with him I’m not sure how to answer you, other than to say nothing kills my spending quicker than being friend zoned. And meeting outside with no sex involved is sort of like going to the movies with your sister, I guess you can have a nice evening, but who really wants that.

It’s possible he will spend a bit less itc. However, since he’s spending money otc - and since the club doesn’t take a cut of otc money - you might take more home.

If it’s just dinner and drinks - like a civilian type of date - then he should keep spending itc.

If it’s a sex date - then he’s got to pay for a hotel room and possibly dinner. That might be a large expense overall for him. So he might spend less itc when he sees you.

Typically I spend more on An OTC date than I do during an ITC meet up so I don't think there is any risk of losing income. OTC dates could be anything from Netflix and chill or big nite on the town.

Typically I will Have 1 or 2 OTC dates per week and that takes time and $$ away from ITC fun.

I still mix in ITC with a lady , but once we are comfortable on a social basis OTC wins out and ITC fun naturally reduces -but doesn't go away

I personally would not spend much ITC after getting an OTC meeting. Its clear OTC is the end game for him, once he gets it, that'd be what he'd shoot for going forward. If thats not for you, then he'll probably move on to someone else ITC anyways.

Bottom line, think of this as a polite ultimatum at this point since he has laid his cards on the table. You are probably losing the same level of ITC money from here on no matter what, but potentially gaining an OTC client. If OTC makes you uncomfortable, cut your losses, since it most likely won't a one time thing/ask from him if thats what you're hoping.

Then again, I could be wrong. But PLs are pretty predictable.

I like going to SC so even after OTC I typically spend just as much ITC but TBH I did go less as OTC was just a better option.

AmeliaSmith said "Should I bring up sex and ITC spending or just wait until he does or maybe I'm jumping the gun?"

Until what he wants OTC starts to overlap with what he gets (or exceeds what he gets...) ITC, then keep quiet about sex and ITC spending. He's probably going to want sex eventually, but he might be one of those guys who wants to pretend that it's going to happen somewhat naturally. Asking up front about sex and his stripper budget might burst his bubble and damage your working relationship with him.

Amelia, I doubt that a single breakfast date is going to change much.

As far as sex is concerned, sooner or later he's going to push the issue. You really have no control over when he hits his non-sex time and money limits. When that happens, you won't see him as much ITC anyway. Only you know whether that is something you are comfortable with. If not, then all you can do is treat him well for whatever time he has left in him. However, if you are comfortable with it, then keep it in your arsenal as an option if you feel him squirming off the hook. I wouldn't bring it up right away, but rather once you sense that he is at the point of walking away.

My first otc experiences with my former ATF, I'd see her in the club and out...the decrease in itc actually came at her direction... she was working 7 days and made dates with me taking those off...so like Sunday Monday she'd hang with me for dinner, date once we went to the casino, another time Applebee's and a hotel...but I'd usually drop 350 to 400 on her...which she said was enough for her to take the day off...

I think this scenario will vary from customer to customer. Two variables that'll affect it in my opinion are how well off he is financially and how much he likes you. If he's financially set or budgeted and really likes you, he'll probably keep everything status quo after OTC or even up his spending on you OTC to avoid the club altogether. However, if funds aren't so available to him, he may spend less in the club, only preferring OTC, because he'll come to know what he can expect OTC as opposed to ITC.

Since this will be you guys first OTC I'd say don't bring up future ITC spending. Future OTC spending and expectations sure, but not ITC matters. More than likely if sex were to be desired by him on this first OTC, he'll probably be more inclined to reach a deal since you guys are already together.

So given your scenario, I've typically decreased my spending ITC with the girl. After the first few OTCs and/or how much fun we had the price has fluctuated high to mid. It's just varied due to her current needs/wants or my fund availability.

I can tell you I spend more on my OTC dates than ITC so its a $ win from that perspective. I prefer OTC since its more of a one on one unrushed experience in a much more comfortable personal and private setting. Thats just my experience and preference and I view it as an end game.

Once I shift to OTC a girl I usually stick with it with her if it goes well.

OTC means "outside the club", most guys being guys want sex, but the more romantic types may be ok, or even prefer, just to spend time with the girl w/o sex.
[The younger he is the higher likelihood he'll want sex sooner rather than later - some old guys are sometimes happy with just companionship/arm-candy]

Most experienced SCers, especially TUSCLarly educated ones, do not like/expect to pay for a platonic OTC date, but other less experienced PLs may - if he's not paying you for a platonic OTC date, then he needs to continue his ITC regular spending.

PLs are often finicky, especially the ones that wanna see the girl OTC - if u refuse the date he may be pissed/hurt and stop seeing you ITC, if u see him for unpaid platonic OTC, he may start expecting that over ITC - every PL is unique in terms of his personality and how he reacts.

You need to be clear with yourself what *you* want - if the $$$ is the most important to you over hanging with him OTC, which is the case for almost all dancers, then the majority of ur interaction with him should be the paid kind whether whether that's ITC or paid-OTC with maybe some free non-sex dates to keep him happy and keep the $$$ coming.

@Amelia, you still haven't really answered about what your willing to do OTC, or what you guys do ITC for that matter. I'm fine if you don't tell us, but its hard to provide any meaningful advice either way without knowing that.

Bottom line is the guy is not gonna keep spending on not getting what he wants. If he wants sex, ITC or OTC, there's a clicking clock till when he realizes he ain't gonna get it and moves on. If he wants a relationship, the clock is ticking too. That scenario has the added bonus of potential drama if he's not the most well adjusted guy. There's no reason to broach the subject of sex, professionally or recreationally if he hasn't. Explicitly saying there is no sex expected on the first date is bringing up the subject though.

I'm an advocate of honesty. I'd tell him what you want/what you're comfortable with and what you're expectations are. You don't have to be a bitch about it, but being straight up about it I find works much better. Hopefully he'll do the same.

You also need to be careful that he doesn't get the idea that you feel about him the way he feels about you - i.e. some guys want a girlfriend and think their fave ITC dancer may/will be his GF and that she may/will want to date him like a BF.

You're the girl, tell him you want X for ITC and/or X for OTC if you start seeing him OTC. Most of these chumps have no boundaries, or word. They fold under pressure

^^^^ I think @jackslash is on point here.

@Papi - very important point. Beware the delusional, smitten PL.

PLs wanting to date dancers is as common as tattoos on strippers :) - it's gonna happen multiple times where dudes will wanna see u outside the club - if they want to see you too often or it's interfering with their spending on you, then you need to come up with some semi-believable story as to why you can't see them OTC too often (e.g. too busy with school, you have an extra job in on campus b/c you need $$$, w/e) - i.e. they should not get the impression they will see u for free OTC if they're not spending well enough on you ITC and/or paid-OTC.

What Salty &
Dolfan said - probably best to be upfront about what *you* need/expect and let him know the reason you strip is b/c u need $$$, not b/c you're looking for a date or a BF.

Leaving it up to his own understanding/expectations may be detrimental to your bottom-line ($$$).

I didn't read all the replies.

I'd say 99.9% of men are looking for sex in the near future if they have you outside of the club.

Personally, I would cease to pay anything ITC after getting an OTC partner. Like @Jack said, the OTC experience far more relaxed and satisfying in every way. And why should any of the money go towards the club itself?

I only know what *I* would do, and did with my ATF, and this is what that is.

I would spend less ITC, but I spent *more* overall. I would spend maybe $100 or $200 on her once or twice a month, which she’d have to share with the club. After we started doing OTC on the regular, that changed, she was getting a couple hundred almost every week. My spending in the club went down to less than $50 per visit, maybe once or twice a month.

Of course, we were fucking from the get go OTC, so this might not pertain to him until, and if, you reach that point.

Amelia, Interesting Thread!

In my observation a guy who sees a girl ITC repeatedly, like say going beyond 2 times, without making a definite attempt to see her outside, is a Pathetic Looser.

1. Jobless
2. Married, or living with an SO
3. Something else he needs to hide
4. Just not socially adept.

Not making a moral judgement, just trying to describe the situation. And dropping that money, when he could be bedding down with either his favorite girl, or some other girl, is a big waste.

I call your attention to this outstanding book, about Jim and Artie Mitchell and the origins of lap dancing, and loaded with dancer interviews. Previously strip clubs had all been strictly no touching, even no stage sitting or tipping:

https://www.amazon.com/Bottom-Feeders-Fr…

Some of the girls quickly developed regulars who would spend lots of time each week and maybe 1/3 of their pre-tax paychecks just having the girl sit on their laps. And these guys were not going to get too frisky or try to see the girl outside. They were not looking to escalate the relationship.

Now, when the guy did finally try to escalate, then when that relationship peaked, he would never go back to to just being an ITC regular. So the girls recognized that they should just go along with these regulars, as a regular was worth far more money than a BF. And the chances of things working with a BF are not that good.

What I would say though is that if the guy wants to escalate, generally meaning some sort of outside contact, you pretty much have to go along with it. If he is treating you nicely, you can't really just refuse and expect him to keep coming to the club. Maybe some sort of counter offer.

But otherwise if you don't go along with him, then he'll just find some other girl. I mean, this is what he should have done from the start, try to escalate to outside, and then if you won't, find another.

So you have to go along with him. But if you see him outside, then he won't be seeing you at the club.

Strip clubs are contrived and very expensive places. But they don't solve any real needs. Not good for sexual gratification.

In my view a big reason for this change is cell phones and caller id. Used to be women were very careful about giving out their phone numbers. So what you saw ITC was it. But with cell phones they can be much freer.

Then once a guy has got her phone number she is potentially his escort. So most girls are accustomed to that today, and this then also leads to higher ITC mileage. Girls can rake in more money via ITC than OTC. ITC goes faster and with fewer flake outs.

So, unless you see him or counter offer, he will soon be seeing someone else, and after you see him outside, he won't be again seeing you inside.

SJG

Led Zeppelin, 1969 Danish TV
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k-WSbMW7…

Youtube shooting:

Quit Rare: Female Lone Nut

http://abcnews.go.com/US/shooting-youtub…

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-calif…

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/father…

@AmeliaSmith - Why don't you just ask him what he is looking for? As others have mentioned it could be a date, sex or something else. For me personally I would love to find someone I like to see OTC but not for sex, just for what we are already doing in the club. A diet version of a sugar baby.

BTW - post some more pics

imgbox.com

So, if 'date only means no sex, I would stop spendong on the girl entirely ITC and OTC. It would signal to me that I've reached the end of the line with her because I'm not going to get what I'm after. That's on paper though.

In real life if she was super hot I admit I might keep trying, but not for long.

If he wants a GFE he will still spend money ITC. If his main objective is sex then no he will not spend ITC.

"Should I bring up sex and ITC spending or just wait until he does or maybe I'm jumping the gun?"

Bring up sex? Yes. Ask about future ITC spending up front before "breakfast"? I'd suggest no.

Me personally if I’m getting OTC, then I’m reducing ITC spending.

As someone who purchases OTC (and lives in Texas funnily enough) most people in the community that I've seen want OTC either want to straight up buy sex, or they want you to not feel like he's buying sex.

You have 2 ways you can go.
1. You can tell him straight up what you are and aren't willing to do, and what the prices of those needs to be.

2. As long as that money is being spent, you can allow him to think whatever he wants. I had an ATF that I got OTC from, and she put it on me so good, I wanted ITC too every time I saw her.

AmeliaSmith,

If he just invited you on a date, and is just going to pay the costs of that date, then its just a date and you have to ask yourself if he's someone you'd want to date. If he's paying you for your time to be with him, then its obvious that he's trying to pay you for sex.

I'd say depending on the amount he offers, it may be better to just keep him ITC and lead him on with the promise of a possible OTC encounter. You should be making the most $$$ with the least effort. If he really likes you or wants to fuck you that bad, he will take the bait.

-->"What are the chances that he will continue to spend money ITC after I meet with him?"

Out of curiosity, if he's spending the same or more on you OTC as ITC, and furthermore you're keeping 100% of the money instead of whatever fees and tip-outs you normally pay, why do you care if he keeps spending ITC also? If you can wrap up all his cash OTC -- assuming you have the time and willingness -- why isn't that a win, and now you have more time ITC to hustle other customers.

-->"he wants to meet OTC for a date only"

Be interesting to see what he's after. If he is the one calling it a "date", maybe that's something to watch out for.

Just as a datapoint, outside of classic OTC (w/ sex), with many of the ATFs I've had, we would often do things like meet before her shift for lunch and drinks, or meet after her shift for drinks & dinner (then often I'd drive her back to her car or BART). I never, not once, ever paid for this privilege, or even been asked to ... maybe just kind of a regular's perq?

It sounds like in this case, he's also paying for your time, as well as the "date"? That's probably for the best, if he calls it a date and there's a risk he might get confused about what's going on.

One other data point: once I ask a stripper if she wants to go OTC, if she says no, or says yes but it never materializes, or says maybe but she has to think about it, I will work on her a few more times, but then I'm moving on if it still doesn't happen. Even on SW, the girls seem to think that the OTC request is an inflection point. Just something to keep in mind -- I think the more interesting question for you is "if I turn down the OTC request, how long until he stops seeing me ITC?"

^Bingo !