I realize that what constitutes a dive or what constitutes an upscale club varies around the country. I also get the impression that in certain areas there is not a great deal of difference among clubs. But in your area and relative to what’s high end and low end in your area, do you gravitate more toward the dives, the upscale clubs or something in between? Why?
I prefer dives. I select and approach the girl myself. So all that matters is that I like her. And that is not all looks. And I don't use that 1 to 10 scale.
Overall I like the women they have in dives, more down to earth.
In future travels, going into new metros, where available I will be starting at Black Dives.
I gravitate towards the dives - less pretentious - usually girls w/ less GPS and more willing to earn their $$$ vs expecting to be given $$$ just b/c they look good - staff in dives often looks the other way more - dives seem "more real" and often less hoops to jump-thru - and I feel I often get better bang-for-the-buck from the dancers (in dives dancers seem to more appreciate my business; in upscale clubs I often feel as if the dancers think they are doing me a favor taking my $$$).
I like the amenities of upscale clubs and the higher-class clientele (less thugs); but my PL-appetite seems to be more filled in the dives - upscale places often leave me filling a bit unfulfilled and less like I got my money's worth.
I'd say my clubbing preferences vary to some degree between "home" and "road" visits. When traveling I'm pretty flexible on the quality of the club, and tend to gravitate toward the best overall entertainment value whether that's found in a dive club or the most posh joint in a given market.
If I'm "window shopping" I might opt for an upscale club with better quality dancers but higher prices/lower average bang for your buck (examples: Bare Elegance LAX, Cheetah Atlanta). If I'm "slumming it" then I'll trade off a lot of the creature comforts for higher mileage/lower costs (e.g. Henry VIII Inkster, Partner's Tavern in Erie PA), although I'm still fairly selective on which dancers I'll spend time and money on.
When clubbing in my "home market" I usually gravitate to a mid-tier club where I can relax comfortably, the talent level is consistently above average (if not necessarily spectacular), and my typical spending per trip will result in a good time at least 3 out of 4 visits.
Dive’s for all the same reason everyone here is saying. I also don’t like big crowds, waiting in line, or waiting too long for a drink. At dive clubs none of these things really exist. Even when I go to a normal bar and I’m out of town, first thing I type into google is “dive bars”. Some of the best out of town trips have included trips to dive bars where you meet awesome locals who tell you where the other great places are and can hook you up with any extra curricular activities or party favors you may be looking for.
In my area (Illinoisish), there really isn't a whole of lot of difference between clubs in terms of pricing regardless of "upscale" or "dive". It's funny because two of the more upscale clubs (PoleKatz in Bridgeview and Admiral in Chicago) which have the customary valet, higher cover and drink prices (nonalcoholic for Admiral), and bathroom troll of course, are the only two "clubs" i know in the state that offer $10 full length dances (3 minute+). Now the Admiral's are a joke, mostly air, but nude although some girls (and PLs) will try to get away with a little more. PoleKatz' are only topless and then only during certain days and times of the week. But they also have $20 medium contact (tits and ass for most dancers) nude dances with good grinding which almost no other club if any in the area/state has. I guess you can also throw in their sister upscale club, Gold Club which also has a discount day.
Now when i think of the dives in the area, a lot of them are more black/urban clubs. But their not really cheaper. Arnie's in Harvey (which i've never been to) is infamous for their UHM dances, but that's since changed since their last bust/raid, but their still $20 each and those might be topless per the TUSCL info on that club. Jimmy's in Chicago Heights has VHM dances for $20/$30 at about exactly 3 minutes. Those are no better value than Club O in Harvey or Club 390 in Chicago Heights, which are mid-tier to upscale clubs. Maybe even worse value, as the selection is more varied and better (IMO) at those clubs and true extras are available sometimes even in a regular LD. Lampliter in Ottawa is probably the closest to a true dive i can think of. They still had late night cover ($5-10) and not really cheap drinks. But they have probably the worst selection of mostly older, overweight white girls. The lap dances there are $20 each for topless only, can only touch ass in those dances. The other club in Ottawa, Silver Slipper Saloon used to be divish, but now they're more faux upscale, or mid level. They have nude $25 dances with similar contact as Lamplighter, less or more depending on the girl and how well you evade the bouncer's eyes, but with much better selection of dancers. They also have VIPs for $175/$300 per half hour/hour with decent mileage depending on the girl, but not extras. That rate is about as good as you can get in Illinois. You'd have to go to central Illinois (Kappa Kabanna in Kappa near Bloomington or Pulse in Peoria) to get similar rates for similar mileage, unless you luck out with the right girl at the Admiral which has a $300 an hour option.
So TL, DR; basically in my area there are really no benefits of choosing a dive over a midlevel or upscale club outside of cheaper drinks (sometimes) and lower/no cover and free parking late in the night. To some that is all that you need to be a deal breaker for going to an upscale club. The girls are almost a couple notches lower and there is usually less flavors. I mean there really is no comparison when comparing the girls at Admiral and PoleKatz with the girls at Lampliter and Jimmy's in terms of volume, variety and quality. The mileage really isn't better and dances aren't really longer or cheaper either. Extras don't seem to be readily available and usually no VIP of course. OTC might be easier, but i rarely see a girl in a dive that i would be interested in taking out. To be fair i don't really do the bikini/lingerie bars/lounges, and there are quite a few near the city, but i doubt the story is that much different (quality/quantity/value). So if you like dives, then yeah, Chicago (and Illinois for the most part) sucks for that.
I gravitate towards what I call mid-tier clubs, but what others might call dives. However, not everyone really understands what a true down and dirty dive really looks line because they don't have them in their club regions, so their perspectives are less well rounded. Go to places like Harry Os in Stamford CT, Pleasant moments in Bridgeport CT, Godivas in Greenville SC, and others of a similar caliber and one can see what a true shithole dive really looks like.
I do spend a lot less at the dives (like usually less than $100, often less than $50), but that's because there was usually nothing worth spending money on rather than any better value at the dives.
Good analysis Dirk. The lingerie bars arent any better. I normally prefer "mid-tier". Real hole-in-the-wall dives the talent is too hit or miss. And most upscale places have too much money leading to gps strippers. When home, in my area, i like the $10(or $20 for some gps strippers) dances at polekatz and gold club. Upscale but money goes a bit further for dances(where i spend the most money) than the regular price of $30 in most of upscale clubs in the area.
Apparently I haven't been to any true dives. But if places like Sapphire or Spearmint Rhino in Vegas is considered upscale then my preference is anything under that. For the same reason most folks said: more action for less money AND the girls aren't as snobby.
I spend most of my time and money in what I'd call mid-tier clubs. I tend to lean more towards dives than the higher class joints when I get away from the middle. I don't like the pretentious attitudes in the high end clubs. Usually I'm fine with the girls and their moderate GPS, but the club employees/management and often customers are just too fucking annoying.
I enjoy dives - or non-upscale clubs. A mid-tier club could work for me too. In my area it seems there are either upscale or dives. There isn’t much in between.
The dives have a more relaxed feel. Less pretense, less bouncers holding up the walls, a more neighborhood bar (with tits) type of feel.
I don’t look down on sex workers. I view their jobs as similar to mine. So I don’t expect dancers to look down at me either. In higher end clubs the dancers seem to be looking for Gordon Gecko to walk through the door - ready to hand the keys to a new BMW to each dancer.
Dives, definitely. The girls are easier to talk to, they're friendlier, the places aren't as crowded, and often they like the LDK almost as much as the guy does. Dives have girls that appreciate the dick.
I'm surprised regarding the thumbs up for dives from the various TUSCL'ers. I do dives way more than upscale clubs even though things have changed over the past 5-10 years and now I often walk out of a dive disappointed from the low quality and fat dancers whereas years ago I could always find at least 1 hot one that was worth my time.
I still hit the dives hoping to find that gem.
From my perspective the upscale clubs exist mainly to separate you from your money with little return for your cash. Yes the dancers are almost always hotter but they often see themselves as special and have the attitude that you should just pay them for the pleasure of their attention or overpay for light mileage. GPS rules the upscale clubs and my memory of what things used to be like prevents me from playing their game of foolishly overspending for little return.
I like upscale clubs because the dancers are better looking. I don't want an ugly skank to blow me, even if it only costs $50. Whenever I have gone to Bogart's (a notorious dive), I have been repelled by the fugly dancers and continued on to the Flight Club on the other side of Michigan Ave.
That's why a lot of the stuff that people write in reviews I find to be useless. They say all kinds of stuff about the neighborhood, code name for race and socio economic status.
25 comments
Overall I like the women they have in dives, more down to earth.
In future travels, going into new metros, where available I will be starting at Black Dives.
SJG
I like the amenities of upscale clubs and the higher-class clientele (less thugs); but my PL-appetite seems to be more filled in the dives - upscale places often leave me filling a bit unfulfilled and less like I got my money's worth.
But there really aren’t any true dives in my area.
There use to be one in Winston Salem, North Carolina...but they closed down
True?
SJG
If I'm "window shopping" I might opt for an upscale club with better quality dancers but higher prices/lower average bang for your buck (examples: Bare Elegance LAX, Cheetah Atlanta). If I'm "slumming it" then I'll trade off a lot of the creature comforts for higher mileage/lower costs (e.g. Henry VIII Inkster, Partner's Tavern in Erie PA), although I'm still fairly selective on which dancers I'll spend time and money on.
When clubbing in my "home market" I usually gravitate to a mid-tier club where I can relax comfortably, the talent level is consistently above average (if not necessarily spectacular), and my typical spending per trip will result in a good time at least 3 out of 4 visits.
I’m not sure. I’m only familiar with the Greensboro and Winston Salem clubs in North Carolina. The rest I have no knowledge of
SJG
"Do you want to teach me about computers?" "Let me give you my phone number." "We're Full Service here."
They are really likeable, and often quite good looking too.
SJG
Now when i think of the dives in the area, a lot of them are more black/urban clubs. But their not really cheaper. Arnie's in Harvey (which i've never been to) is infamous for their UHM dances, but that's since changed since their last bust/raid, but their still $20 each and those might be topless per the TUSCL info on that club. Jimmy's in Chicago Heights has VHM dances for $20/$30 at about exactly 3 minutes. Those are no better value than Club O in Harvey or Club 390 in Chicago Heights, which are mid-tier to upscale clubs. Maybe even worse value, as the selection is more varied and better (IMO) at those clubs and true extras are available sometimes even in a regular LD. Lampliter in Ottawa is probably the closest to a true dive i can think of. They still had late night cover ($5-10) and not really cheap drinks. But they have probably the worst selection of mostly older, overweight white girls. The lap dances there are $20 each for topless only, can only touch ass in those dances. The other club in Ottawa, Silver Slipper Saloon used to be divish, but now they're more faux upscale, or mid level. They have nude $25 dances with similar contact as Lamplighter, less or more depending on the girl and how well you evade the bouncer's eyes, but with much better selection of dancers. They also have VIPs for $175/$300 per half hour/hour with decent mileage depending on the girl, but not extras. That rate is about as good as you can get in Illinois. You'd have to go to central Illinois (Kappa Kabanna in Kappa near Bloomington or Pulse in Peoria) to get similar rates for similar mileage, unless you luck out with the right girl at the Admiral which has a $300 an hour option.
So TL, DR; basically in my area there are really no benefits of choosing a dive over a midlevel or upscale club outside of cheaper drinks (sometimes) and lower/no cover and free parking late in the night. To some that is all that you need to be a deal breaker for going to an upscale club. The girls are almost a couple notches lower and there is usually less flavors. I mean there really is no comparison when comparing the girls at Admiral and PoleKatz with the girls at Lampliter and Jimmy's in terms of volume, variety and quality. The mileage really isn't better and dances aren't really longer or cheaper either. Extras don't seem to be readily available and usually no VIP of course. OTC might be easier, but i rarely see a girl in a dive that i would be interested in taking out. To be fair i don't really do the bikini/lingerie bars/lounges, and there are quite a few near the city, but i doubt the story is that much different (quality/quantity/value). So if you like dives, then yeah, Chicago (and Illinois for the most part) sucks for that.
The dives have a more relaxed feel. Less pretense, less bouncers holding up the walls, a more neighborhood bar (with tits) type of feel.
I don’t look down on sex workers. I view their jobs as similar to mine. So I don’t expect dancers to look down at me either. In higher end clubs the dancers seem to be looking for Gordon Gecko to walk through the door - ready to hand the keys to a new BMW to each dancer.
I still hit the dives hoping to find that gem.
From my perspective the upscale clubs exist mainly to separate you from your money with little return for your cash. Yes the dancers are almost always hotter but they often see themselves as special and have the attitude that you should just pay them for the pleasure of their attention or overpay for light mileage. GPS rules the upscale clubs and my memory of what things used to be like prevents me from playing their game of foolishly overspending for little return.
That's why a lot of the stuff that people write in reviews I find to be useless. They say all kinds of stuff about the neighborhood, code name for race and socio economic status.
SJG