Is this industry getting more ratchety?

I think the attractiveness of dancers can vary widely by club (even in the same local area). I don't base my opinion on any research, but I've found certain clubs have hotter dancers. In my view - I'd go to clubs with more dancers - as I'd expect there to be better odds of finding a dancer who appeals to your tastes.

I'm not sure if this invalidates my previous post - but I prefer a filthy - or ratchety look - when I troll for strippers.

I think it's the economy.

Many girls only do stripping as a last resort. If they can find a regular job, many of them will take it.

Right now there are a lot of job openings. I think it's effecting the quality you see at many clubs.

I agree with Warhawks, it's the economy. Right now is a good time to look for a job for entry level and lower paying jobs, which is what most dancers (not all but most) would have if not dancing. I see all the time anymore gas stations, grocery stores, and restaurants with help wanted signs. And it's kinda funny in a cruel way, when the economy is poor and the pretty girls start dancing no one has money to go see them

I wonder if some of those girls are into stuff like body piercings, weird hair color/cuts, funky goth outfits, and tattoos, that overshadow their natural beauty, so that they just aren't appealing to you. I find myself glancing over them at on the floor, and then realize how pretty, and nicely built, some of them are back stage, in the light. I guess my mind just imediately goes to "worn out and trashy" when I see those things, so that they don't even seem like young sexy girls to me. I'm a dancer, so I don't know how it is for you guys tho.

I think the general atmosphere of the club, and lights, aren't very faltering for weird hair and tattoos. Unlike some of the instagram photo shoots. So even if you like the alternative look, I don't think it conveys well in the club.

It's all across the board...all the 10-8 are leaving strip clubs and doing cam and or other social media for big cash

Others are left to strip and escort

Even those are leaving clubs to hook online like back page or more safe on sugar daddy sites and normal dating sites

Online life is killing land based clubs

What about ordering strippers online? I've been coerced into doing this from a friend s who swears by it, but I just can't do it. I need to see the person up front first before ordering a woman, especially online.

I agree Meat72 as I don't trust the photos. Online ordering would make the bait and switch much easier.

Using Thailand and other developing economies as a guide, as their economy develops there are other ways to make money. The top bar girls become sugar babies or mistresses. The feeder system for farm fresh bargirls evaporates as they have employment options in the traditional economy.

The economy was booming in the lat 90's and early 00's and that was the heyday of the strip club industry so the idea that a good economy now is creating the opposite effect is somewhat nonsensical. The real answer is simple: Extras. Extras make the uglier women attractive and the smart pretty ones choose to do a different job than prostitute. Two other impacts: Strip clubs is an old white guy thing and as they die off so does the clientele, which is now younger and raised on the internet resulting in people less likely to engage in anything in person. Also this "good" economy is good because people have jobs but stagnant wages mean you work full time and cannot afford anything.

I agree that there is a decline in talent level overall. I think the main reason is the many alternative types of sex work available these days. For example, it's a lot easier to stay home and take your clothes off for a camera than it is to come into work every day and strip in person. The improving economy might also play a role but I don't think it's the main reason. Even though there are more entry level jobs available today, sex work still pays more than those jobs.

I think JohnSmith69 hit the nail on the head. It would appear to be less dependent upon the economy (and dancers opting for minimum wage jobs) and more dependent upon the alternative sex work jobs available. I don't know how cam work compares to dancing/escorting in terms of income - as cam girls might make less. The work appears safer and more convenient (especially for a young mom with kids) which benefits the girls.

I'm also wondering if it might be our view of beautiful strippers? Tattoos, piercings and brightly colored hair are attractive attributes of a new generation - and those attributes may deviate from our generation's view of beauty (a more classic blonde beauty queen look).

If it's a shift to CAM work, then those of us who enjoy the actual touch and feel of a woman that a strip club offers us are in trouble.

I don't understand the fascination from a PL's point of view in camming (I understand why it's enticing to the girl, she gets to stay at home and get paid.... no extras/contact.....doesn't have to put up with fat, ugly, smelly customers like Juice... etc.) but not sure why guys who enjoy strip clubs would be willing to pay for CAM girls.

I agree ^^ as I'm a long time clubber - and I don't find that paying for a cam girl is comparable. It's easier to go online (than going out to a club) - but if I'm going online - I'll just watch pornhub shit.

"I don't understand the fascination from a PL's point of view in camming (I understand why it's enticing to the girl, she gets to stay at home and get paid.... no extras/contact.....doesn't have to put up with fat, ugly, smelly customers like Juice... etc.) but not sure why guys who enjoy strip clubs would be willing to pay for CAM girls."

^ THIS!!!

Meat72, for us Phoenix based PLs, the new faux black lighting at HiLiter exposes every flaw and wrinkle in the dancers, dropping the average looks simply because of lighting. I wonder how many other clubs have made the same mistake, contributing to ratchetiness.

I agree with skibum. I think extras clubs are oveskinny. I also think the dancers at non extras clubs should be the standard bearer. There's tons of ratchet hoes at extras clubs. There's some in clean strip clubs too but not nearly as many.

Meat, are talking about strip clubs in Phoenix? What do you mean by "ratchety"?

Meant Overrated*.

^^^ Mark, I've noted in the past whenever a Bourbon Street girl comes over to the Hiliter, she loses some of her appeal. Vice versa, I've seen Hiliter girls go to Bourbon and look better. The darkness at Bourbon hides many flaws so you catch the outline of their body and it focuses on their curves. Hiliter still sucks in my opinion with quality compared to Bourbon, even In well light areas like the VIP.

Clubs try to save money w cheap lights, and it shows. The fake black lights are worse than day light. It's a dumb way to try to save money.

Real blacklight fluorescent tubes are some of the cheapest lighting you can get.

I much would rather have fake blacklights than ones that emit real UV and give you cataracts. Unfortunately, the clubs I go to have the real UV tubes. :(

Non-blacklight LED and/or dim incandescent is the way to go IMO.

SA----where I can find two or three SD's for 3K a month and cut down on dealing with sore shins from high heels, knee burns, being pawed at by the likes of us :--) as well as if I find a decent guy get in a bit of traveling and see some of the better places an area has to offer. Hell if he is really cool I can go into the club I once worked in and tip the dancers....

I have noticed that there is a decline in talent during the summer months. Then around October-December there seems to be more and better girls at my club.

Quality of the talent seems to run in cycles.

^ Interesting observation. Will have to look out for that.

In general, most people have less disposable income post-recession. This means less 'easy' money being spent in SCs. IMO, this has two effects:

1. A much higher % of a dancer's money comes from her regulars, so there is naturally more emphasis on catering to the regulars.
2. Other jobs that don't require being naked are more financially competitive. Once upon a time my xATF said she wanted to get a different job but she'd make 1/2 or 1/3 of what she was pulling in stripping. Now a days, I don't think (at least where I live), strippers are making 2-3x another job they are qualified for. FWIW, post-recession, I've know several local dancers who had to get '2nd jobs' because stripping wasn't bringing in enough dough. 2a. I would also venture to guess that the 'better' looking dancer have a higher 'self worth' in their minds and need to be getting a serious multiple over another job to consider stripping.

Vikings LMFAO

I've dabbled in all kinds of ways to get access to naked women, so I've spent some time playing on cam sites. The fascination was:

1. easy, instant access. Turn on my computer, there are girls. No driving to a club. This was especially appealing during a time where I was working from home a lot and could take a break during the day when I was home alone.

2. there was still an interactive component to it. I could talk to the girl, she could talk back. I could use my tokens/tips to influence what she did. I especially enjoyed the process of (more likely illusion of) getting the girl to do something she wouldn't normally do (same game I play with strippers). As opposed to porn, I got to direct the action.

I never spent all that much - probably the equivalent of one good SC visit TOTAL over several years - but got some decent entertainment out of it. There were plenty of guys that spent some serious money though. On MFC the best deal you can get is about $0.08 per token, and the models get about $0.05 per token (so 20 tokens means a $1 tip for them, but you spent $1.60 to give it to her).

My favorite cam girl to watch would do a series of "goals" over 2-3 hours to build up to a "cum show" (often involving fuck machines, swings, other interesting stuff) that would add up to 20,000 tokens ($1000). I hardly ever tipped to watch her shows, since there were plenty of other guys dropping 1000, 2000, even 5000 token tips on her at a time. Part of her attraction to me was that she always seemed genuinely surprised and appreciative that guys would tip her that much, even though it happened day after day. She never seemed to develop a sense of entitlement and always worked hard to put on a good show.

My boyfriend wants me to try the cam thing, but I don't think I'd make the same money on camera. I look pretty good, but my talent is in the dances, and interacting. I would imagine that and young sexy girl, who hates being touched, would do a lot better tho. I've thought ab setting something up just for when my regulars miss me on my days off, and when they are out of town.

Let's describe "ratchety".

For me it means fake tits with a very noticeable incision scar underneath. Also, the fake breasts are odd shaped and wonky.

Their asses are either flat with no shape(think anorexic), or their asses are out of shape on the chubby side. Along with ass, those girls who may have had a decent ass years prior now have a worn Out ass from kids or simply worn out. I grab her ass and its mushy with very little tone. It can only loook good bent over.

Cellulite and worn out dry skin. In the light of day the complexion of these " ratchety" girls are shocking. Pock marks on their face from side effects of medications/drugs. I've seen girls in their late 20's and early 30's whom I look younger and in better health than they are. I take care of myself so am a little vane in that respect if others fail to do the same, especially when they are that much younger than me.

Finally, just a physically out of shape girl who can barely do any pole tricks with out the weight of her body losing confidence that the pole want snap off. These girls usually just clack their heels together really loudly, so the patrons in the club are all forced to see who is making that noise!!

I'm sure there are a few other details missing describing ratchety, but these are just a few. By the way, I had dances from two extremely hot dancers with tattoos, and they were NOT ratchety!

@bj99 since you're not an extras girl, there's also the issue of whether you'd be comfortable/willing to masturbate on cam for a general audience and just how entertaining your masturbating and orgasms are. The cam girls who make the most money are the ones who put on a good show while masturbating and have exciting orgasms (especially squirting)

The girls who have "stealth" orgasms, or cum very quickly, just aren't worth watching (I don't even care for women like this in real life).

The private camming thing can be as easy as using a video chat app on your phone. I did this for the first time with a SB a couple weeks ago while I was on a business trip and I was surprised at how well it worked out.

Oh yeah. The masturbating/ orgasms isn't an issue. I just don't think my talents are more in person. I'm somehow one of the most popular girls at my club, and at my age, it can't just be looks. I know a lot of it is my dances and that I am comfortable getting close. I don't do extras bc of the risks, and bc I have a boyfriend who wouldn't approve.

I meant "I think"

^^^ So if the risks were diminished and you didn't have a boyfriend, would you do extras?

Yeah. If there were stds and it wasn't illegal, and I didn't have a boyfriend, I absolutely would. Forget stripping, I'd be an escort lol.

"Weren't. " ugh. I need coffee.

Well, I'd opt for being a sugar baby. Bc I'd worry ab safety too. I wouldn't just meet o guys who called me from an ad or something.

@bj99 I'm sure you are right. If I'm in my fav no-extras-guaranteed club, then the dancers I end up hanging with and spending money on tend to be older - they are just more interesting and have more sex appeal. The hot young ones are aloof, shallow, and entitled, except the newbies. For a short time, the newbies are genuinely appreciative of the attention, then GPS kicks in.

So, if there was no BF in the picture, would your position on extras change? The last dancer I saw OTC swore she wouldn't be doing OTCs or VIPs if she had a BF, but that would mean the BF would have to be helping fund her life, since she was barely making ends meet with the money she was making doing VIPs and OTCs (although I suspect she reduced the number of shifts she was working).

I'd prolly do otc, if I didn't have a boyfriend. It must be a sort of sliding scale. He's fine w me stripping and going to dinner etc, but it's important to him that he's the one who gives me sex.

That would be important to me too, and if you have any emotional investment in him I'm sure it's important to you, too.

I don't get extras because I need to have the girl desiring for the physical needs of what I'm about to give her. I've never paid for sex, outside of taking a girl out to dinner and wining and dining her.

For me, I enjoy cuddling and dancing on many of my customers, but it's like enjoying a massage, or regular dancing, or even playing spades w a good partner. The physical part isn't disconnected from the person, but it's not the same as being with someone I'm in love with. I would expect sex to be the same for me. I don't think sex, or even enjoying it, would negatively affect my feelings for my boyfriend at all, but lying to him, and the guilt would.

@bj99 the SB model would probably fit more with your talents. Some guys (like me) that use SB sites are not looking for instant gratification hookups (that's what my fav extras SC is for), we're looking for a quality "on the side" girl that we actually like spending time with out of bed, as well as in bed.

You'd probably be a champ at the get-acquainted dates, and since get-acquainted dates are expected in the SB world, you'd get a chance to screen your SDs. The slower pace of arrangement startups would also allow you to request mutual testing if fear of STDs would still be a factor.

The overhead of arrangement startups is a pain in the ass, though. I'm in the process yet again (the situation with my nuclear-powered electro-drama-magnet OTC stripper finally went from "wow, you sort of have your shit together" to "oh no, get me the hell out of here"), and after contacting about 20 possibilities in the 18-35 age range, I've had responses from 6, and the 2 actually interested in meeting are 27 and 30. The under 25s, despite saying "don't waste my time, only contact if you want to meet" in their profiles, are the ones dragging their feet.

Well, it's goes back to the cam thing. The young sexy girls do better on cam, than in the club, or even as SB, bc they look good, but aren't comfortable w customers.

@bj99 OMFG, I want to meet you now just because I know you understand the value of a good spades partner.

Pulling off a risky nil bid because you know you have a partner that understands the risks you're willing to take and how to help cover them, or who remembers the subtle signals to use when they have 3 or 4 high spades, is almost as good as sex.

I believe another reason the talent has gone down correlates with the availability and expectations for high mileage dances and extras. Simply being beautiful doesn't pay as well as it used to without taking that next step.

Haha yeah. I agree. It's true flow w another person.

Prices going up, quality of girls going down. I've heard these same complaints, and made them myself, ever since I started strip-clubbing in about 1991 or so. I guess I have to admit that there have been a few good solid plateaus, or even rises, in quality of girls; but I don't think there's been a single fall in prices in all that time.

^ that makes no sense. Are you saying that girls are less attractive bc sc prices have gone up? That's not even true, so I'm wondering if I'm not understand. Also, if girls were making more, then better girls would strip.

Bj99 all my first meetings are in a public place of the ladies choice.

I don't expect anyone to knock on my door and I do not expect to pick them up at their house.....

A drink or coffee if it is during the day. I'm in no rush when I meet someone. I have as much to lose as they do .

Ive been at this over many years, NY NJ PA FL CA and Caribbean. Quality is regional to a point. FL CA quality hasn't declined that much, though it has, NY NJ has declined shockingly! There are girls dancing who have absolutely no biz dancing for money, and I have told a few exactly that, that you should be paying me to talk to you. (Side note, Ive driven by some Ho Stro's and wondered the same. Who are these tricks picking up these dredges and paying them) It is only partly due to the economy, there's a reason why its the oldest profession, always in demand. Generally speaking, be it 9-5 or street money, there's less discretionary money floating around than pre-recession. We used to party and each would drop 500-1k and take bitches out OTC after. Younger dudes I find it's more for show, though some do get down with it. Also just plainly more women in the Biz. It has lost any stigma attached so a lot of girls who wouldn't have before now dance. Even if they have a job, just to make ends meet. I'm not talking theory, I know a lot of strippers, having had 2 GFs in the biz. But one of the biggest reasons has to be social media. You can IG every single bitch in every club. GF used to show me her DMs, its insane. You don't do extras, good luck. Also everybody fucks, directly or indirectly. ITC or OTC or Regulars/clients/friends. Girls make the distinction but to anyone else its all the same.

The talent declined when the clubs stopped paying the strippers and made the strippers may them; the more girls they now have, the more they make in tip out / house fees. When my mom danced, long time ago, she left with plenty of tip money and was paid I believe $17/hr. She worked at Alan's former club.

Of course add an economic decline and a higher demand for strippers and you have clubs hiring girls who wouldn't get hired years ago.

Made the strippers pay* them oops lol.

And she worked at a couple of Alan's former clubs. Not just one. My mistake.

I do think it is more about the rise in extras and less to do with the economy. If you want the stick figure models types they are still in all the air dance clubs and tourists traps. There they can make money without doing extras.

Agree, RE: extras and extras customers helping to ruin it (slowly). Higher contact levels for the same $20 dance prices we've had in twenty years.

Clubs, to cope with rising cost of doing business (rising rent, taxes, utilities, legal) tried unsuccessfully to raise customers but the customers resist paying more per visit. So the clubs, forced to pay higher operating costs, have squeezed the only ones left in the equation they can -- the dancers. So the clubs require higher stage (house) fees, higher VIP/CR fees, tips-outs (to help make staff payrolls).

Plus dancers in the '90s and earlier, many of them where paid an hourly wage, $7-9/hr in at lot of cases and I don't doubt Nina's $17/hr figure either. Plus the dancers kept their tips and most of if not all of the dance prices. So, yes, it is partly because of the economy. You don't see it because as a customer, all of that is invisible to you.

^unsuccessfully to raise prices on customers.

You want better talent? Pay for it. Also consider clubs with 1 way contact or air dances.

IMO, I agree with CP (in an earlier thread) that higher contact dancers should be tipped accordingly to encourage them to stay in the business.

I know a lot of young pretty no extras girls who are happy to go home with 150 on a day shift. It does seem like they should get more than that, even just for being pretty and dancing sexy in a thong all day.

The old UV black lights were the best. It's one thing I on;y like about the current clubs. The lighting level today isn't dark enough like it was in the mid '90s. Health-impacts of UV, aside. The dancers just looked sexier under black lighting.

^ "I know a lot of young pretty no extras girls who are happy to go home with 150 on a day shift. It does seem like they should get more than that, even just for being pretty and dancing sexy in a thong all day."

Why should they get even that much if all they do is look good and flaunt their stuff in a thong?

I don't understand that entitled feeling. Guys should give pretty ladies money just for being pretty? I can go to the beach and see prettier girls showing just as much for free.

It's not that much money really, and they are doing something most young girls won't do. They should make a premium. Looks are a sort of talent type thing.

I somewhat agree with Flagooner, I get more turned on going to the gym and seeing a hot chic working out than I do watching dancers at the club. I go to the club for contact, not to look. The girls at the gym are way hotter, too!

It's a bit strange to say the least but I kind of agree with those who say the talent level has gone down in recent years yet I have consistently gotten better at finding those elusive 8s or better and having them hang out with me for as long as I like. I don't spend that much yet I do take care of those girls that make me happy, I'm guessing that maybe they aren't earning as much as most people think. Many seem to be satisfied taking home on day shift $150-200 and night shift &200-300. I don't know this to apply to all, but it seems more likely than not.

But you don't see the girl's tits at the gym; you also don't get to fondle girls at the gym. Please stop acting like it's comparable. If it's comparable, go to the gyms who allegedly work out at and see of one of these super-fit hotties will take their top off and grind on you... Not'a one.

Dancing for $150 a shift? Embarrassing. I could be better off being a waitress keeping my top on with that kind of pocket change.

If you get more turned on at a gym where tits and ass are not exposed, then stop going to strip clubs. Keep going to "the gym" with your body-builder muscles and pick a girl up at a gym...

Oh, that hasn't happened yet? No hot girls from the gym wanna suck your dick? Rhetorical question, didn't think so.

Stay on the treadmill fat ass.

Eh, paying strippers for no contact just to look good is kinda comparable to going to the beach or gym. In that context I am not surprised if a stripper on a day shift(not willing to give contact lapdances) only makes $150. I actually think all parties would be better off if these strippers did something else. Now a dancer willing to at least give some lapdances should make more than $150. If they can't make more than that I think it's either the dances and clientele are too cheap or there is a fundamental flaw with that dancer but not looks (as some can get by on looks alone, just not all). I do tip all dancers if they give great dances because I know they deserve to make good money but not just for their looks is all.

If it weren't for my ATF I'd cut waaay back on my SC visits... I've been getting into the cam girl action and sure you don't get to touch and feel, but I actually enjoy the non-contact interaction almost as much; talking, flirting, etc.

And for what I spend in one visit to the SC I can spread for one month of camming. Everyday. Added bonus. at anytime of day there's sure to be a hottie that fits my type as opposed to SC being hit and miss nowadays, and likewise for some can be an extreme bargain.

But then again I'll admit I like the interaction aspect as much as the contact aspect. Something more guys aren't willing to admit.

^^^Well they probably make more than that I really was talking about what they tell me they keep after house fees and tip outs. I know for a fact that on a twentyfive dollar dance in the back room they get $15.50 in most of the clubs in S Fl. So if you do the math and they do an average of 10 dances in a 7 hour shift that's $155 to the dancer plus what ever extra tips she picks up subtract house fee usually $25-50 for dayshift plus what ever tip out she is required ( bouncer, house mom, DJ Etc. ) she might pull $350-400 in total but the rest is taken away from her leaving what I said above. Night shift they take a bit more but house fees and tipouts are more so I stand by my statement.

I think you're in the minority strip fighter. I know for myself if I want non contact interaction (how great can the interaction be through a computer screen?) porn is 10x better than cam shows. Even then porn still pails in comparison to physical interaction with hot babes. Even if it cost more with strippers.

Just to be clear I have never used a cam site and I never will if I can't touch and feel her I really ain't interested not even a little bit.

blame the internet and tattoos.

first. the internet. girls can easily create interest that can pay well. a. cam girl opportunities. b. instagram. twitter. facebook. including backpage. craigslist. ect. c. porn. (the long lasting baseline.)

second. tattoos. (personally i don't like tats.) i will still interact with such a girl. i will not let tats/piercings get in the way of enjoying an otherwise lovely lady. butt some guys HATE tats and piercings. and WILL NOT interact with girls that have them.

twenty five. i much prefer LIVE interaction with a hottie actually in my arms. butt still seeing a lovely girl online or in a magazine is attractive.

Different perspective stripperweb.com

@ chess one of those girls got it right she told the rest off politely, but still she said guys like girls that care about them and you know what she is right I stand by my statements on this thread BTW most of those SW girls ateyidiots.

^^^conveying that they care about a customer is how strippers land big spenders. (It is also business 101)

I get that very well @Nina but the point is valid nobody is going to be a custy of a vendor that overtly dislikes them.

And there is nothing in any business manual that says liking your customers is a bad thing.

I generally have a lot of respect for my regulars. If I hated someone I wouldn't deal with them. Peace is priceless.

Yes the beach and the gym is where meathead and flagooner find all their pussy. They walk on the sand and the pretty girls flock to them. That is why they are on a strip club website.

^ huh?

So what SJG keeps his pussy in a closet in his basement.

"how great can the interaction be through a computer screen?" @chessmaster

Well everybody here is on an anonymous forum. With camming it's another level up, being able to see the girl.

Look at the dancers that interact here on TUSCL, Nina, Bj, poledancer etc, all of whom attract massive more attention for being female. With camming I actually get to see them for whatever few dollars it costs.

It's similar to becoming a regular on a forum. The more you use it, the more you get to know the regulars who are on it, and the more you enjoy it. Camming is similar in getting to know the models but also the other regular members too.

With camming I actually get to see them for whatever few dollars it costs.

On the other hand, there are guys spending $10,000/mo on cam models.

Guys talking here are talking with between men. On cam sites, it's more of an ass-kissing "OH YOU WOULD LIKE TO SEE A WOMAN NAKED IN REAL LIFE ONE DAY, TOO???"

We value the dancers here for their intellect and/or ball-busting, so they don't need to dildo themselves on the internet to be worth talking to.

Nina, you're quite the dim witted stripper. If you didn't have looks, you'd be an example of Darwinism. Making a career out of hustling dudes for money seems to be your path.

So you realize we were comparing watching girls? The ones at the gym are way hotter than the ones at the club, mostly because they are the types that get off their ass and actually do something, instead of the ones like you at the club walking around looking for handouts. Nina preys on the weakness of lonely men, and is angry about her lack of people skills. I'm quite sure she will be doing a desk job in another 5-10 years in some cubicle gossiping about her coworkers and banging her boss in an attempt to climb the corporate ladder to a sales administrator.

I appreciate the insight regarding how the increased cost structure of the clubs has had a negative impact on the dancers and their income. This could definitely contribute to a more ratchety type of dancer.

However, has a divide been widened in the clubs where there are dancers who have a stage presence - and who put effort into their stage sets - and then there are dancers who simply want to get customers into the back room for dances?

In my view Nina is a performer - who has consistent return customers. She's not a high mileage type of girl. She has the looks and charm and she can carry a conversation. She can make more because she understands how to pull everything together.

On the other side - are the girls who don't really even dance. They are looking for men to take to the back room for potential extras. From what I've seen in my area - many of these dancers are coming in from Brazil or some Russian (and former Russian) countries. They do have good looks and hot bodies - but they don't know the language enough to carry on a conversation.

I'd think there's a huge divide in the earning expectations of these two groups of dancers. I'd expect the higher end dancers to have a much better income - and a much more consistent income as well (depending on the economy).

Overall, I think that the trend is heading towards fewer and fewer really attractive dancers. I think that it's impossible to pin down exactly what it is, and it certainly isn't just one thing.

Camming and social media marketing/sponsorships, sure. I do agree that the prevalence of extras in strip clubs has driven some of the more attractive girls towards sugar babying and/or escorting (where the woman has more control over her time, money, and clients), or out of strip clubs altogether. That's at least partially our fault. We spend a lot of time on this board talking about how to get the hottest dancers OTC, and one of the biggest enticements is the dancer making more money. Well, as good as that argument is, it pretty quickly teaches the dancer that perhaps the best money can be made without the hassle of a strip club.

I would also put it out there that this board is populated by an older population of PLs who are less inclined to like women who are tattoed, pierced, etc., which is a more popular and mainstream look now. This works in my favor; I'm a fan of the Suicide Girl look (on the right girl...).

And it would not surprise me that the way strip clubs currently manage and pay dancers is another issue. Though I'm not even remotely knowledgeable enough about that to comment. It's unrealistic, but it would be interesting to see what would happen if a single club in a market like Detroit reverted back to paying dancers $17/hour plus tips, etc. I know that triggers all sorts of wage/benefit policies for employees vs. independent contractors. Setting all that aside, it would be an interesting experiment.

But yeah, I agree overall that talent is trending down.

Age demographics are an underlying part of the problem. Each year, clubs need more Gen-X aged guys to enter and support the industry. We simply are not as numerous as the boomers. Also, try typing "Generation X" into a news search engine... Most of the recent articles about us center on lack of savings, and how little prepared we are for retirement. There will be a new economic equilibrium somewhere. But my area certainly has fewer clubs today than 8 years ago.

"In my view Nina is a performer - who has consistent return customers. She's not a high mileage type of girl. She has the looks and charm and she can carry a conversation. She can make more because she understands how to pull everything together."

And meat72 thanks for being a jealous hater. It reminds of how small your dick is compared to my self esteem.

I quoted cashman1234 - thank you for the kind words. Lol.

Meat72 wasn't worth quoting.

Nina, you're confusing your self esteem with your ego. I mean who equates success with sucking old lonely dudes and their wallets dry for a living?

Lol...I keep winning! Undefeated in fact, but it's not even a competition with Nina. More like a cat batting around a dead mouse for play, because the cat has that Fancy Feast waiting for its dinner.

Several comments --

1. Hey BJ99, I think you asked me a question and said my comment didn't make sense, a LONG ways back. Sorry I missed your inquiry earlier and now I'm not sure what the potential miscommunication was.

2. Interesting how the stripper-web link of discussion of this same question turned it entirely into an issue, of whether or not the girl puts herself out there. More initiative, the strippers who posted to that thread are saying, is what is necessary, for a girl to get more money. That sub-point has only a barely tangential relation to the question! More ratchet does not mean more, or less, initiative, or more, or less, money. Did they miss the entire point? Wow, what a surprise, strippers can't even talk about strippers rationally. Ok then, back to your regularly scheduled program ...

3. What exactly IS "ratchet" anyway? Here are the two Urban Dictionary definitions which I found most useful:

(Urban Dictionary definition 1) A ghetto-dialect mispronunciation of the English term "wretched".

(Urban Dictionary definition 2) (sub-section 2) (corruption of "wretched"), derogatory hip-hop slang for an unpopular, obese, average-looking, rude, closet poly, hip-hop person, usually a welfare client with children from multiple parents, substance abuse problems and a narcissistic personality disorder, hence the multiple partners and nightclub brawling. Often wears ill-fitting leggings, torn fishnet hose and a loose, matted hair weave in a bright color. Extra income may come from multiple partners, begging and/or prostitution, due to hir poverty. Term is often hypocritically used by similar speakers. Warning! This term is a racial stereotype, sexist fat and slut-shaming speech and may provoke ethnic violence from target.

In response to this new information, I started to wonder, did the original inquiry mean to ask simply, "Is this industry getting more wretched?" or, now that I understand the derogatory or racial element, to ask, "Is this industry getting more ghetto-oriented, with more unattractive or overweight dancers who are likely Black, more impoverished and/or welfare clients?"

My answer to either version of the question remains, as when I first posted to this thread, "Prices going up, quality of girls going down. I've heard these same complaints, and made them myself, ever since I started strip-clubbing in about 1991 or so."

That answer doesn't explain why, and I'd love to figure out more of it. Some of this thread has some viable suggestions, I think -- the internet itself, including the internet-call-girl phenomenon proper but also including social media, camming, and the like; also, generational divides, Boomers and Xers and Millennials and the demographic shifts in disposable income. These seem somewhat sensible to me.

One suggestion does NOT seem sensible to me. That's the idea, that the increased expectation of extras-service has somehow driven down the visual appeal of dancers. I don't understand that relation. In the most abstract sense, it could perhaps drive up or down the overall dancer looks quotient, just because of supply and demand, since any human female supposedly would suffice as the supplier of either handjob or blowjob or vaginal coitus; thus, abstractly, supply is in theory increased when the demand changes from interest in a service that includes (a) looking good and turning the guy on, to a service that ONLY includes (b) getting the guy off by means of certain physical ministrations. But we're not talking about the demand changing from (a) to ONLY (b), we're talking about (b) AND (a) developing into the thing which is in demand.

Maybe I'm confused about that suggestion. To take it out of economic terms, because I am dreadfully bad at economics, how about someone explain it to me in these terms: if there really didn't used to be ANY expectation that you could get a handjob or more at a strip club, and now there IS an expectation that this will happen in a strip club, why are the girls now uglier? And as an ancillary inquiry, please also explain this to me: why did it used to be so easy for me to get a cheap handjob in a strip club in the 1990s, whereas now in the 20-teens, it seems like it's really not easy for me to find even a half-decent-looking gal to give me even a lap-dance, much less a handjob, in any strip club, for less than about $200.

The assumptions are all weird in that economic discussion. Members on this board generally agree, strippers are getting less hot, strippers charge more for less services, more services are available, it's harder to get more good services ... we're contradicting ourselves as much as the strippers on stripperweb are! Dangit.

"More like a cat batting around a dead mouse for play, because the cat has that Fancy Feast waiting for its dinner."

Sorry you're admitting you're a dead mouse and I'm the cat with the fancy feast???

Saddd. Rotten grump. Yeah, that dead mouse being dragged around is certainly a-winnin.'

Book Guy - meat72 has posted plenty of racially driven comments to me because I'm mixed race.

Book Guy- "contradicting ourselves as much as strippers on stripperweb. Dang it!" Yeah a stripper's word is pretty meaningless. Much empirical evidence given, especially when they comment on tuscl like Nina does. Good observation!

Another example of a huge ego by Nina-"racially driven comments to me because I'm mixed race". Oh please, you know it's only because your intelligence is lacking, and the only comeback you have is to play the race card. Bookguy brings in "ghetto" to describe ratchety and you get all bent out of shape defending the industry by calling someone racist. More empirical evidence of your huge ego and small intellect. Smh. What a loser!

Oh, and you can't steal my material, because Nina is a dead mouse, and I'm a wise Cat. Meat72 for the win again!!

Meat72 you know I'm referring to the thread where you attacked my hair AND skin simply because I'm mixed. That's not "pulling the race card," you idiot, that's me simply pointing out that you brought up my ethnic features as a negative, and I have every right to comment.

And if there's something wrong with my ego you're only making it bigger by trolling all recents threads with random Nina attacks. Not healthy. I clearly have gotten under your skin. I'm the cat, every time.

Nina is a ratchety nappy headed ho!

Tell me what's racist about that? Another example of a dumb, dim witted stripper on TUSCL named Nina.

My "nappy hair" is 1) thick, and 2) 16 inches long. Your penis is 1) skinny and 2) about an inch and a half.

Winning...

Is your anal dido nicknamed "nappy hair"?

That's a good question, flagooner. I'm sure meat72 will have an answer for us soon.

Btw, I think you meant dildo* brainiac. ;)

Yes, I did mean dildo. Thank you for the correction.