Most pl's don't like the airdance clubs me included. But they have to be good for something otherwise they wouldn't be around anymore, anywhere. I can think of only a few things.
You just want to watch for cheap(er).
Hoping to score otc.
You would rather go to a strip club than therapy.
IF I don't take the hour drive to the city, most of the clubs around here are airdance only. Some of the clubs get pretty crowded, and my sense in general is that most guys don't even realize OTC is a thing, which means these places are getting crowded on their own merits. I imagine that, in the end, if there's no other option for more, being able to watch and interact with scantily clad women, is still more fun than not doing so. For me, since I know about what's available an hour away, I have little use for the local airdance clubs. The only times I've been to those clubs in the past couple of decades is when a buddy of mine said, "hey, I only have an hour, let's go grab a beer at a strip club" type thing, and I do it more to hang with my buddy than for the strippers; frankly, given an hour time budget, I'd rather hang out at a good mixology bar, which tend to have waitresses who are as hot as strippers, anyway.
I worked at an airdance club when I first danced. It was also a drink hustle club, which I hate, but it does encourage girls to sit and talk. Since most girls didn't make much on dances, there was a lot more socializing w customers at tables, and the stage was a bigger deal. Tipping in stage was more about seeing something impressive or sexy, and not the mini dance interview that it is at my current club. We also had great deals on pitchers of beer. I prefer my current club, and even tho my other club got busy, I never made nearly as much.
Shopping for OTC
Use them loke McD's. Stop by to take a shit
Replacing TVs in hotel rooms.
Yep, takeout.
Not much! Like others have said maybe shopping for OTC other than that I can't think of anything
I went to a club with a friend in Georgia called "Rumors" and it was strictly an air dance club. I was so shocked. I had never even heard of a STRICTLY air dance club until I visited that club.
It is good that there are air dance clubs. Otherwise we wouldn't be able to tell our wives that those are the clubs we go to.
Larry is correct . OTC
GoVikings - I wrote the first review on that club.
Along the lines of what Subra mentioned, often times it's the only option SC wise for people in an area - also low/no-contact clubs often tend to have above avg to very good looking dancers and the eye-candy alone, along with perhaps a nice facility, may be enough for those that are not lost like us :)
I club in Detroit. What are these "air dances" of which you speak?
@flagooner Im a use that the next time my wife ask about the stripclub..."its just an airdance baby" ...lol
Buying dances is always a chump's game. Just a bad choreography for engaging with a girl.
SJG
Pat Metheny, Joni Mitchell, Jaco Pastorius, Michael Brecker - "Shadows And Light". youtube.com
James Dean, Rebel Without A Cause imdb.com
I guess business "gatherings"... ego stroking/rainmaking idk
^^^^^^^^ The kinds of stuff you are describing, events based on male bonding. They only need the girls there so that they can remind themselves that they are not gay.
It is like that at the Sunnyvale Brass Rail, bikini, no touching, w/ lots of alcohol, but only during the night time.
During the day time there are far less people and guys do at least verbally and emotionally engage with the girls. Very conducive to asking girls out too.
But at night time, just big groups of guys getting drunk and stupid.
I agree with your insight.
SJG
I've never seen a club where are dancers are hotter than full contact dancers.
Esafador, not sure if I follow you.
Here, our clubs being no touching, we get lots of young ones who don't want to cross over some key lines. Many of them really are hot.
Now, the SF girls are really hot too.
We also have had some underground dives, like one George's Rockin' Robin. Their girls were not hot looking.
SJG
Air dancers*
I was wondering this same thing myself. But the reasons listed here make sense....for other folks. For me, if it were the only option I just wouldn't go. It's why I don't really mess with San Francisco strip clubs in my area. After starting my SC career in Las Vegas where you can pretty much molest girls non stop, SF was a total shock. I didn't know what an air dance was until hitting the Gold Club one evening. Hustler Club was a little better but it was 50% grind, 50% airdance. Opposed to Vegas 90% grind, 10% air and even in those short air sequences you're grabbing/slapping ass until she sits back down. SF strip clubs aren't even air dance clubs yet I still don't like them because it's not heavy 2 way contact and the girls are good looking but not standouts like Vegas. TBH Ive only been clubbing in those 2 cities so I know I missing out big time based on accounts from folks on this forum. It's cool, my time will come.
Wow did I get off topic or what? Back on topic: air dance clubs are good for nothing IMO lol.
my vegas experience was fun butt expensive.
TFP, usually things will be less restricted front room and back rooms, when there is no alcohol.
Having an alcohol license imposes all sorts of rules, and enforcement by executive order and the civil court. Only a preponderance of evidence and majority of the jury.
Where as with no alcohol, its really just the penal code against prostitution, and enforcement in the criminal court with the innocent until proven guilty standard and a unanimous jury in order to convict. So very hard to close a no alcohol San Francisco strip club.
Now, Deja Vu took over and they did ruin it.
But today, Deja Vu has unbranded, meaning removed the public use of their name from all their clubs except Centerfolds. So especially in the no alcohol clubs ( 20's, Eden, Darlings, and New Century ) is it like the old days. Front room lap sitting and makeout sessions, and anything goes in the back rooms?
Still not enough reliable reports. Our SF Expert Subraman prefers alcohol clubs.
Pink Diamonds and Market St. Cinema did get closed or forced into closure. They had the wildest reputations. But at the four remaining, no alcohol and Deja Vu but unbranded, still not enough reports.
Girls make the most money when they can do it their way, which means picking who they want to engage with, and then pulling out all the stops and getting as much front room money as they can, and being extremely friendly in order to get that. And then getting back room money on top of that.
Deja Vu does not run MBOT, and it is reported that anything goes, but it is expensive. They don't run Crazy Horse, but that looks to be set up as a jack shack, not FS. And they have reverse atm machines, and this of course eats into the money via taxation. Seem to be rules on the front room interactions. No good.
SJG
TFP: the shame of it all is just 15 years ago, SF was one of the best SC cities in the country, with arguably the best SC that's ever existed (at least, of American-style SCs). LE could not give a shit less about ITC extras; nearly the entire sad state of affairs here can be blamed on one word: Deja Vu. Okay, maybe two words.
-->" After starting my SC career in Las Vegas where you can pretty much molest girls non stop, SF was a total shock. I didn't know what an air dance was until hitting the Gold Club one evening. Hustler Club was a little better but it was 50% grind, 50% airdance. Opposed to Vegas 90% grind, 10% air and even in those short air sequences you're grabbing/slapping ass until she sits back down."
As bad as SF is, clubs like GC and Hustler are pretty comparable to Vegas clubs like Sapphire and Spearmint Rhino, IME. The Vegas clubs have more contact on lap dances (lap dances at GC and Hustler are worthless and should be avoided), but in the VIP and champagne rooms, pretty similar. If you didn't get that in the VIP, you either picked the wrong girl or went on a busy nightshift. In addition, there ARE extras clubs in SF, so you have options that aren't available at all in Vegas (albeit with other tradeoffs). When the SC business here went to shit in 2007, the crown jewel of the sex business in this area became world-class FBSM until about 2014, when the market imploded on that, too.
Subraman, I respect your preference for alcohol clubs and drinking with girls. And you are our reigning SF expert.
Remember that Deja Vu has unbranded all of its clubs except Centerfolds. So this should allow them to run faster and looser.
So I am certain that it comes down to front room friendliness and a lack of front room restrictions.
So do they have standard chairs good for lap sitting? Or just bar stools. Still useful, but not necessarily the best.
So it is the four unbranded DV no alcohol clubs, and then also MBOT.
20's, Darlings, Eden, New Century.
Girls getting extremely friendly front room, makeout sessions, or are they selling dances and thus ruining the entire choreography?
New Century could have promise because of how large the facility is, and because of their history with the big totally private rooms.
If the front room is unrestricted, then the most aggressive girls will rule, and that means front room GFE, followed by the back room. So it will be as good as it gets anywhere, short of having hotel rooms.
It has sometimes been like this at our Mexican bar underground circuit, though front room only as they have no back rooms. But the girls are good front room, and they line up all the OTC's they can.
SJG
Seems a lot of tourist areas have decided to clean up their act (SF, LV, etc) in order to attract (or not turn off) mainstream tourism - down here South Beach seems to not want anything to do with strip clubs (only one lame ripoff tourist-trap the city has tried to shut down for years but for w/e hasn't been able to).
Ft Lauderdale also wants nothing to do with SCs and they forced out the decades-long Spring Break crowd in the early 90s
Thanks for the Intel, Subraman. TBH I didnt do any VIP at either Hustler or Gold Club. But that was because I was using the same strategy that I used in Vegas: get some dances from the dancers I thought were the best looking. Whoever had the best dance I take to VIP. But in SF that didn't work for me. For one, in the Gold Club that Sunday night I went I didn't see many of my type. And the one that was my type gave me the first air dance I've ever had. On top of that they don't get topless when they give you the dance, unlike Vegas. Immediately crossed that place off my list. Then at the Hustler Club the girls looked a bit better but still don't get topless when they give you a dance. Plus it wasn't enough grinding for my taste. I figured if the lap dances are like this why pay more for VIP, I don't want 30 minutes of this crap.
As for extras clubs, I'm a relative newb when it comes to SCs so I'm not in the loop of which ones do extras. The most SCing I've done in SF was one night where I met another PL at a bar. Didn't even know this dude and struck up a conversation. He asked what I was up to and I told him point blank that I was about to go on a strip club binge. He was like 'me too!'. So we decided to hit em up together. He even put me on to the wristband you can buy that gets you access to like 5 different clubs. He was pretty knowledgeable about the girls at all the clubs, which let me know he was an experienced PL. I'd pick a girl and he'd be like 'she's bad news man's. Sure enough it'd be a crappy dance. Best club we visited IMO was Centerfolds. The private dance area was more private than most clubs. But since the other clubs were so low contact I didn't try my luck although if I were braver I probably could have had more fun. Still, I didn't have any kind of gropey fun like I always do in Vegas.
Which SF clubs do extras?
@Subraman also it's funny that you mentioned Sapphire and Spearmint Rhinos in Vegas. I've had the best LDKs ever in those 2 places. I'm headed to Vegas in about 3 weeks and those 2 places are definitely on the list of places to go. Debating the other 2 clubs I will hit.
Anyway it's hard for me to think that an SF club can compare to that. Especially in quality of the girls. My type is pretty standard: big ass and big tits, doesn't matter if real or fake. Vegas had plenty, SF not so much.
The places in SF which looked to hold the most promise, had been the 4 unbranded DV no alcohol clubs. But Subraman had pointed out that they look so small that you would never be out of view of a bouncer. Also, not clear if they have chairs or just bar stools. And then roped off areas and signs about different skin level of dances, they look like wanna dance clip joints.
But only way to know is to be there.
New Century is the 4th, and it should be bigger.
Are we all on the same page now, understanding that front room unstructured fraternizing leading to GFE auditions is the real issue. Without that, it is a wanna dance clip joint. With that it is awesome.
So I saw a picture of a US club once, I think in California. It might be out of date. But the picture showed a rectangular stage, with one side against a wall. Then around the 3 sides of the stage was a row of seating.
Then back from that was the second row. This second row was box high backed cuddle up seats. These were wide seats, and the box back was high. So if you were sitting with a girl in one of those seats, about the only people who would easily be able to see you would be those on the opposite side of the stage, and the girl on stage. Ideal!
Then further back from the stage, behind the cuddle up seats, was the open carpeted area where people could walk about. I don't know if beyond that there was a third row, maybe of bar stools.
To me this would be the ideal layout. You get the girl sitting with, you, feed her money, get friendly with her, and usually that meaning a good GFE audition. They you invite her to the back room, and then after that take her home with you to continue.
Still some remaining ambiguity about how things actually can go in San Francisco, but there also must be some big barrier to entry, otherwise DV would not have been able to take over. Need to open some more clubs. And they don't need to be big facilities. And in SF, LE usually does adhere to due process. So unless girls are openly soliciting, very hard to make a bust. If the guy is leading it, the girl is not breaking any law, and the guy had better not be a cop.
SJG
Air dance clubs are good for
Blue balls Selling Dreams Setting you up to get Robbed OTC
But the thing is, without front room GFE auditions, no club is really that much better!
SJG
We need to get a couple more strip clubs opened in San Francisco, more along the lines of Pink Diamonds or Market St. Cinema.
No alcohol, maybe membership instead of retail. Doesn't need to be big.
But front room makeout sessions will be standard, and we will have real nice locked door VIP rooms. And next to a motel if someone wants more time with a dancer. No exit fees. And just hire as many girls as possible, and keep adding more.
Can't let a corporate chain control SF.
SJG
TFP: yep, you hit the perfect storm of bad experiences here: you did lapdances at the alcohol clubs, AND you went on Saturday night, which makes it even worse. VIPs, especially during the dayshift, are a different story, and are roughly comparable to those vegas clubs. I'm surprised you found more hotties in Hustler than Gold Club, it's usually the reverse, with Hustle being a step behind GC -- GC typically has the hottest lineups in SF, by quite a bit.
Funny about the wristband thing ... to me, those are basically combined entry to the 5 worse clubs in SF! No shit. But, if you're SCing with a buddy and on an adventure, anything can be fun, even if the "buddy" is some PL you randomly met at a bar :) To me, if you're going to do nightshift -- and I hate nightshift, so you'd have to drag me kicking and screaming -- the best choices are Condor for an alcohol club, and taking your chances and hoping for the best at Crazy Horse for a nude club, with Centerfolds being a club with hotter girls but usually really poor value (although I'm sure you can get lucky anywhere)
TFP, buying dances is for chumps. Select a girl you like and approach her and start feeding her money and get friendly and get a front room makeout session going. Only then, when it is time for your own pants to come down, you invite her to the back room. And then take her home with you too.
At the most extreme of US clubs, and at clubs in Mexico, this is how it routinely goes, and at some clubs, the girls give you very little choice in the matter.
SJG
Pat Metheny, Joni Mitchell, Jaco Pastorius, Michael Brecker - "Shadows And Light" youtube.com
8 Body Language Tricks businessinsider.com
James Dean, Rebel Without A Cause, clip, method acting at its very best. youtube.com
The James Dean Story - Documentary by Robert Altman (1957) youtube.com
JAMES DEAN: BORN COOL (2000) - a documentary by Denn Pietro & Denver Rochon youtube.com
We need to get some more strip clubs opened in San Francisco, more along the lines of Pink Diamonds or Market St. Cinema, so that again there is competition and risk taking, and front room GFE.
Decades ago now, my world was rocked by a front room makeout session with a very cute black girl, at New Century. And this was long before anything like FS-ITC was available.
Buying dances is for chumps. Front room GFE, then you invite your selected girl to the back room.
Is it like this in SF now? We need to get some more clubs opened.
Used to be 4 and then just 3 in Oakland. But now zero. JS69 found an article claiming that they were illegal.
The most basic form is still just a hooker bar, with nearby hotel service. Does Oakland have this? Does San Francisco? Back rooms, and out buildings, that all comes later. Clubs today could be members only. Need to restore competition and openness. It all comes down to front room GFE.
SJG
When the Ubermensh is born and Dougster's plan goes into action: youtube.com
Who likes organ music? youtube.com
Obviously, we need more people with guns msn.com
Every once in a while I think it helps to refresh on what a PL was meant to refer to. From the TUSCL glossary, "Pathetic Loser - get a grip, she's not in love with you, she just wants your money. All of it."
I scan some of these threads and it looks like "PL" is now some kind of ironic badge of honor, and in the same topic it's being used as intended by people who've been around the TUSCL boards for a while. I would say there are plenty of PL's who are just fine with airdance clubs. It's how airdance clubs can compete with contact clubs in towns that have both. That and the illusion that once type of club is classier than another.
^classy, never liked that word. just another word for pretentious.
Depending on the city, I'm going to say great place for shopping take out. Because thats all uts good for.