"Thank you for being a gentleman"

I agree with you. I've never been called a gentleman. At some level I agree with the SJG school of thought to treat sex workers like civvys. I'll flirt, I'll touch, I'll joke about sex, but I'm not blunt and I'm not (super) objectifying. I mean, their job is to sell their bodies, but why treat a whore like a whore (except whIle in the act).

I have had a few dancers be surprised how hands on it was once we went to the back. I've had that in the civvy world too, women who were surprised I was a freak in bed.

I certainly agree, in theory. And you're right, with a PL who is confused about where he is, the positive feedback from a pretty girl, and subsequent warm fuzzies he feel, it's the girl just out-thinking the PL and training him to behave the way she wants.

But there was a recent incident where a stripper thanked me for being a gentleman, and I remember not understanding the remark -- I'd gone far beyond what is normally tolerated in the no-extras club we were in. My best guess is that I'd checked with her along the way, "okay if I touch here?", "can I spank you harder?", and that seeking consent was what made me a gentleman. Beyond that, I push to get as much contact as I can, and I'd certainly put my fingers in places that are strictly not allowed in this particular club, so I'm lost.

Papi - I hear what ur saying but sometimes I think that comment could be about not being obnoxious and not just treating them with some common decency before getting down to the reason we both know why we're there.

On my last trip, there were some really obnoxious guys sitting near me and my fave were sitting. Whistling, being loud (you know the once a year group that gets away from their wives). She made a comment about them not being men then proceeded to continue to give me VHM dances that had them jealously staring wishing they were me.

Eh. I let them do what they want intially, yes. If I don't like what I got for my money, that's the last of my money they will get. Often times particularly in full contact clubs, if you don't touch and grope them to start, they invite you to touch and grope them. Even the low mileage clubs they usually invite you to touch them in the other areas besides the t&a. Sometimes they don't. But most are business savvy enough to know higher mileage=more money, usually. And if they are ok with it, they will make that known.

That said, groping and grabbing t&a and most beyond that(sucking tits, fiv, etc.) is not really my forte. Its nice for sure but I really want my dick stimulated via grinding first and foremost. Yes, we are paying for a service, and as such, you should get what you want vs what she wants. But I also think there should be a middle ground. Just because we pay them, doesn't mean we should be allowed free reign to do w/e we want imo. Getting to the middle ground can be accomplished in two ways(aside from just groping them w/o asking, which I don't think they should be subjected to, but they are anyway so whatever). Either asking before paying, or letting her set her boundaries during the dance and if I'm not satisfied, the cost of the dance is the only damage. I just happen to prefer the latter. I find asking them how much can I grope and grab kinda distasteful. But if that works for you great.

On the topic of buying the lady a drink and tipping. I can and have said no before. In one of your threads about strippers drinks I explained I don't do it often. If i do, it's because I wanted to, for w/e reason. About tipping for dances, I do tip them, when I feel it's warranted. I am starting to tip less for dances more than $20 though.

I think we know where they stand but i would like to get dancers input on this topic. Should be posed to sw. I'm sure they would have a field day.

I think some dancers will use the "gentleman card" sorta as a preemptive or indirect-way of telling custies not to touch them - seems many dancers; even in 2-way contact clubs; see groping or handsy custies as unacceptable even when the custy is paying for the dance; and these dancers feel, or make the custy feel, being handsy (in a 2-way contact club) is being ungentlemanly and many a PL, usually the green-ones; may take it to heart and feel they are in the wrong - that's what a 2-way contact club is for; to touch and feel the dancers and personally I don't feel a custy needs to ask for permission to touch and feel a dancer while getting a dance in a 2-way contact club (excluding any orifices) - and I feel like a ripped-off chump paying for a dance and then having the dander tell me "no touching".

@ chess:

Rarely do dancers and custies; even here on TUSCL, see things the same way.

^^^ What Subraman and chessmaster said. You can get away with a lot, even in alleged low-contact clubs, if you're polite but confident, asking permission along the way: May I touch you here? How about like that? With the right approach you can be pretty darn grope-y and still be considered a gentleman, at least by strip club standards.

Along the lines of what Subra mentioned; I see strippers using the "gentleman card" as a way to maniupulate and control custies - i.e make that $$$ and make it on their terms w/ little to no regard as to the custy's wishes.

Some of us have had the opportunity to overhear how dancers talk amongst themselves in relation to custies an how almost 180-degrees difference it can be w.r.t. what they actually tell custies - as I've mentioned in the past; I look Anglo and most Hispanic people think I don't speak Spanish which has lent to the situation where Latina dancers are talking amongst themselves in Spanish about their hustle while I'm a foot or 2 away but they think I can't understand what tney are saying; it's def eye and mouth opening sometimes.

Many SC chumps will spend $300 on a dancer being "Mr Nice Guy" and being all nice and accomodating to the dancer while not getting shit but they think the dancer "likes them" b/c they are so nice - while at the same time many of these chicks will be a complete whore with a guy they like and wanna fuck and will throw themselves at them - so they want the chump PL to treat them as a lady and give them their $$$ so they can go and spend on their unemployed/underemployed BF and fuck and suck him instead; while the chump PL is just left with "she likes me and thinks I'm a nice-guy".

Not that one needs to be an asshole; but one needs to stand their ground and not just do all a strippers says - when it comes to male/female relationships I do feel "nice-guys" that only say yes will def finish last and be used.

I give very little credence to what anyone says in a SC (custy or dancer) - and w.r.t. dancers I take anything they say as just it being part of their hustle and a means to their end ($$$) - so being told by a dancer that "I'm a gentleman" I put in the SS bin and if being a "gentleman" in a SC means going home w/ blue-balls then thanks but no thanks that ain't no compliment.

personally I don't feel a custy needs to ask for permission to touch and feel a dancer while getting a dance in a 2-way contact club (excluding any orifices) - and I feel like a ripped-off chump paying for a dance and then having the dander tell me "no touching".

Ok I sort of agree. In a 2 way contact club, it should be expected and usually is. But I still prefer them to initiate contact(which they do most of the time, as they are fully aware it's a 2 way contact club and know the possibility you are aware as well) as ime, when I initiate contact it seems most are more content to just sit in your lap and allow you to grope. When I wait for them to initiate contact, seems they are more willing to grind and she will initiate contact naturally. Its almost a one or the other, like most of them can't(or more likely don't want to) grind you and be groped simultaneously... At least not when you start off grabbing.

Perhaps there's another way to interpret the line "thank you for being a gentleman." What if she actually meant, "I appreciate how you treated me today. Could be the beginning of lots of fun."

Ultimately I think it's a difference of interests. If your main interest is grabbing and groping everything you can, then yes letting her dictate what you can and can't means your not getting what you want. For me, it's not what I can do to her but what I want her to do me. I want crotch to crotch or ass to crotch contact more than anything and the rest happens naturally in time.

*can and can't do *her to do to me

If you hear that, it means you had less mileage than the other guys.

Perhaps there's another way to interpret the line "thank you for being a gentleman." What if she actually meant, "I appreciate how you treated me today. Could be the beginning of lots of fun."

^i doubt that's what she really means. Most likely it means something in between that and papi's translation to "thanks for paying for my low mileage and allowing me to do what I like."

"If you hear that, it means you had less mileage than the other guys."

It could certainly mean that. But she may have just sat in his lap with minimal effort/dancing and just let him do what he wanted. Which is what some guys are after.

"Its almost a one or the other, like most of them can't(or more likely don't want to) grind you and be groped simultaneously..."

yeah, that does seem to be the case. i had never even thought about it until i read your post, but i agree this holds true. i'm not super grab-y and grope-y during dances.......but I do love sucking tits. and last week when I did a 15 min room with a hot latina she pretty much stopped grinding as i was sucking her titties to my hearts content

^well shit I guess that's pretty close to papi's translation.

"... Its almost a one or the other, like most of them can't(or more likely don't want to) grind you and be groped simultaneously ..."

"... last week when I did a 15 min room with a hot latina she pretty much stopped grinding as i was sucking her titties to my hearts content ..."

I'm not sure the 2nd-quote is in the realm of the first quote - it's hard to suck on a dancer's tits if she's moving around grinding on you - she has to stay in place so you have access to her tits.

^true. And maybe black strippers in Miami are different. But govikings is still on track. If you do most anything to break the rhythm they usually take the opportunity to be lazy and they let you do whatever it is your doing...at least for a while.

But when you sit still and aren't trying to do too much with your hands(or mouth) they know that you want something besides just groping.

I think them stopping what they are doing if you are doing something else to them is more due to logistics as in not being able to do both things simultaneously or at least as well simultaneously

e.g. if a dancer starts DFKing you is likely she'll stop grinding to focus on the DFKing

exactly, chessmaster.....and that's the gist of what I was saying with my first post in this thread

I push the envelope.

Justme, that backfires sometimes. If you cross one of her boundaries(and she shouldnt have many in a 2 way contact club but they are entitled to some boundaries still) and she blocks or rejects your advances, it sorta kills the mood. For me at least. In addition, she will be more reserved from them on in terms of mileage and attitude.

It doesn't just kill the mood -- it kills any trust she had in you, and gets her determined to police her boundaries more carefully. Versus obtaining consent and building trust every step of the way.

On StripperWeb, I've seen girls say things like, "I'd let him touch my pussy over my thong, but once I do, he'll start trying to get under my thong; and if I let him get away with that, he'll try to stick his fingers inside my pussy." That's why it can pay dividends to establish trust ... she doesn't have to do any preventative boundary-enforcing

Either the bitch can hop on or off the dick. There is no return if she decides to be conservative. I'm a man of liberties.....No exceptions. Now ride me like a rocking horse

If these hoes want to be bought a drink, they need to take their asses to a night club and hire a simp. IF they want attention and money by just sitting there, take their asses to a lounge, if they just want to talk theory, bitch go to school, you need education before you discuss politics. Otherwise, let's talk about how that ass is gonna give me a woody.

As you can see folks, I'm a very crass....BOY

you got that right. I try to be a gentleman but I do push the envelope. back when I was a kid I would draw beyond the lines.

that should say classy

It's called respecting her rules and her clubs rules. It also doesn't hurt to tip. Did I enjoy myself? Is her self esteem healthy? That sounds fair and gentlemanly.

I think being worried about a dancer's self esteem is a bridge too far. But that's no reason to be a jerk to the talent. If I'm in a club that might become a regular spot, I'm fine with the long game. I want to know if a dancer is a ROB, so I give dancers chances to show their true colors by feeding them dollars in different ways to see their responses. Usually I'll spot problems from a distance and skip, but there're just gals I want to try because they've got something about them I like. Sometimes I'll take on a ROB as a project so I can shape the dynamic into a favorable situation.

Basically, I'm ok with a dancer thinking I'm chasing a carrot when she's running me down a path I put in front of her.

A stripper thanked me for being a gentleman when I didn't come in her mouth.

Thanks, wall. I've bee try to "just learn to enjoy the damn show." I do find myself thinking about too many things. (About what the dancer is thinking)

^that's probably a half joking kinda thing but that's actually a good point. In detroit you're a gentlemen for not coming in her mouth. In a clean no extras club, you're a gentlemen for not touching.

That's in response to Jack's comment.

Papi Chulo I look Anglo and most Hispanic people think I don't speak Spanish which has lent to the situation where Latina dancers are talking amongst themselves in Spanish about their hustle while I'm a foot or 2 away but they think I can't understand what tney are saying; it's def eye and mouth opening sometimes."

Do tell. A great discussion thread alone could be had off of those stories.