Where Can A Liberal Go And Not Have Government Oppression?

Hey if you ever find that elusive place let me know, cause I'll join ya.

I'm thinking that along with a pretty progressive country like Canada are the Scandinavian countries like Sweden and Denmark. Greenland? Iceland?

Maybe Australia or New Zealand - I think that they hit at least most of your requirements.

Holland

Both the Aussies and New Zealanders seem to have OK strip clubs ( nude, well-rated and full bars)

Of course, the Netherlands have FKKs, but the winter wether

Both the Aussies and New Zealanders seem to have OK strip clubs ( nude, well-rated and full bars)

Of course, the Netherlands have FKKs, but the winter weather sucks as badly as Canada.

Usually cold places like Canada and Scandinavia.

Gee Rockstar, if you're rich, just live in one of those villas on the coasts of Italy or Greece. They're beautiful

The problem is that places with your preferred socialist economic system tend to be oppressive regimes that greatly restrict personal freedoms. This makes sense. The government controls everything including the economy and the people.

M02: When you're rich government rules don't matter. I'm talking about a place for everyone.

If like to know, too. For now, you *might* want o hang on to some guns, if you are afraid of gov't control, like I am. I would like to know where the magical utopia is. The wife and I would probably join you there!

What's the tax rate like? ;)

Rock, maybe SJG's new world order commune?

JS69: Nowhere did I say I didn't want a capitalist economic system? Why do conservative think liberal values are the same as a state sponsored economy?

This is easy to answer Rockstar, go live in your dreams! Too add to the fact of being a dreamlike state that so many liberals fantasize to be in, keep in mind that we all want a society without violent crimes being committed, too. However it is highly noted that every society in history has to deal with violence and crimes. It's that reality that keeps us in check as there will never be a utopia as you described.

M02: I never read his posts so I can't say, but I like privacy. I'm not a commune kind of guy. Plus I play really loud when I practice so I need my own house. And like JS69, why do you equate liberal values with 50 year old hippie references?

Dom77: Guns to fight our own government??? Are you advocating the violent overthrow of our government?

Meat: Well, in 50 years America will be what I described except for the gun part. But I'll be long dead by then.

What I don't understand is why there are no more Republicans, who are socially liberal (Pro-choice, pro-gay rights), but are fiscally conservative, and against gun control. Where did all those people go? I recall I thought there used to be some. (No, Libertarianism is not the same - close though).

Dom: To be elected, you have to fit in a box. Trump to his credit has thrown away the box, but unfortunately he's too fascist for my taste. His condoning violence along with his abject threats towards anyone who disagrees with him, coupled with his popularity scares me.

At rockstar666, Yes. The US Constitution has an "escape clause." It's called the Second Amendment. That's why we need large capacity magazines and military style hardware. At some point we may need to wage guerrila war against the US Gov't.

I realize that post-WWII that will be an uphill battle since we have the FBI and CIA to contend with. But I refuse to just lie down and take it up the ass from the G-Man. Big military guns equalize that. Simple weapons like little handguns and revolvers and shotguns will not cut it.

Sit there and believe in fairy tales, rainbows, and unicorns for all I care. I don't *trust* them. They have a monopoly on power.

Dom: I can never condone the violent overthrow of the government; I prefer the method the Constitution allows, called open elections.

You just committed a capital offense if you're saying you do. You seriously own guns in case you have to kill government agents?

@Dominic77- what you describe are moderates, and there are plenty of them out there. In fact I am way closer to what you describe than a full blown liberal. The reason that we seems to be the minority is that both parties have been over run by the extremists and those lunatics have effectively drowned out the voices of the moderates. Its the perfect example of the silent majority being out yelled by the very vocal minority.

If u ask me it's the liberals that are contributing the most to oppression.

Nobody has ever explained this. The media ignored it. Scary...

In July of 2008, presidential candidate Barack Hussein Obama stated that Americans could no longer “…continue to rely on our military in order to achieve the national security objectives we’ve set. We’ve got to have a civilian national security force that’s just as powerful, just as strong, just as well-funded.”

Sweden and Switzerland.

m02: I'd just assume leave fighting wars to the professionals. That's why we pay taxes. Don't like a liberal government? Vote conservative. But don't start shooting our police, FBI and military men in the name of freedom please!!! And if you do, I don't want to hear any "Constitutional" bullshit on how it's justified.

Rock, I am not one wanting to shoot anyone in any kind of revolt. Self defense? Yes. You didn't address why Obama said we need a private army..Why? Against who?. That's a point libs ignore.

I have NO idea what the context is of the quote you attribute Obama made You'll need to show me the source or I can't comment on it because I have no idea what he was talking about.

Ok Rock, he said it. He never brought it up again. but funny how police have been showing up with military gear.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tt2yGzHf…

Meat72, the places Rockstar666 is talking about are not dreams. They are countries just like the US, except that over the last 40 years they have moved in a different direction. And what are some of the results? Radically lower rates of violent crime. And I believe that even despite some drug legalization, a much lower rate of hard drug addiction. Also, besides less hard drug addiction they also use less psychiatric medication and have much lower church attendance rates.

Leaving the country could be a necessity if Trump is elected. Lots of Europeans came to the US in the 1930's to escape the Nazi's. And then in the 1950's lots of American intellectuals went to Europe to escape the McCarthy Era.

Wilhelm Reich's books got burned on both occasions.

Scandinavia and all of the Social Democracies of the EU could be a possibility.

Jeremy Rifkin
http://www.amazon.com/European-Dream-Eur…

But another way could be the developing world, like Latin America. Totally different situation, but still with some definite advantages:
https://sites.google.com/site/sjgportal/…

But some might not be able to select the role they get cast into:

The Hiding Place full movie Corrie Ten Boom
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XX0GwjXE…

Claude Berr, born Sioux City Iowa, 1925

part 1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8zdzf5aQ…

part 2
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4hgU3wvQ…

part 3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9BPWoYzp…

by Leonard Cohen
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7BGWx8hr…

Just a preview clip of Jean Renoir's masterpiece:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=og2quk1a…

Sophie Scholl - White Rose
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZJXLZdn…

Sophie Scholl & The White Rose
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6irHPPwb…

SOPHIE SCHOLL THE FINAL DAYS Full Film
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nXtC08tW…

SJG

I'm leaving the USA if you start you're commune. If anyone follows what you say it's the end if the world as we know it.

Rockstar, you did not expressly request a socialist economy. But you did specify socialized medicine. I have trouble imaging a society with genuinely socialized medicine that is otherwise strictly capitalist. To have the acceptance of socialized medicine, you must have a fairly liberal economic system and mindset. As a practical matter it would require at least some significant quasi-socialist thinking in the economic realm to have socialized medicine on a wide scale.

No guys, I not talking about today's Govt. I'm talking more of a nightmare scenario / doomsday scenario, where the system collapses and voting ceases, martial law. I'd like the options to have guns for THAT day. I am not talking about gunning down innocent public servants. I have voted in every election for which I as eligible to vote.

I had some bad run ins with the local Govt (zoning and building) very bad reactions with a monopoly on power that left a bad taste in my mouth. It made me feel powerless.

Plus I would like to see your socialized medicine (Medcare for everyone?) take off. Medical care is just getting to expensive to point I just avoid using it since deductibles are so high. I would just like to see a system with reasonable costs and reasonable outcomes, for the little guy, making like $50K/yr.

Mikey!!!!! He was talking about Iraq!!!!!! LOL HAHAHHAHA

JS69: If you can't see capitalism along with socialized medicine, you are a child who has never left the US. Yes, I know you're a big lawyer, but you really don't know anything about other countries. Take a year off and travel.

Rockstar!!!! No he wasn't. And that's why Obama has been the biggest promoter of civilian gun sales 7 years running. LOL

mikey, oh come on. Gun dales were spurred by conservative bullshit that "Obama will take your guns". Don't you even know who the gun nuts are? they are rural, low educated people that err on the side of buying guns to trusting the government

Obama's record is quite clear: in his almost 8 years in office, gun laws nationally are even weaker than they were when he started. Not because that's what he wanted, but the NRA controls this issue with their money. No president can change that; only the will of the people could.

Fucking libs always crying and vowing to leave the country if a Republican gets elected. LMAO
Some said the same thing when Reagan was elected, same with Bush2 but they never leave and you won't either. *sigh*

And if you know so much about other countries why the fuck are you asking a bunch of PLs on a strip club website about what country to move to?

I've been trying to talk my wife into moving to Sweden (or Amsterdam) for about 6 years now. I visited there a few years back, and fell in love with their whole philosophy on social issues and government involvement. Very moderate in their approach to most everything.

threeOSU: Can you even read? I said I am NOT going to leave the US. (Unless you pay me to.) OSU isn't suce s great school it seems.

Hell, i'll answer my question. All you really know is that dreamy stuff from the utopian handbook part of which is pushing your agenda every chance you get and manufacturing chances when none present themselves. Kool aid

lowpaw: Too cold for me but yes, they have a higher quality of life than we do if you are in the right strata.

Actually my eyes glaze over whenever I read your drivel, excuse me.

BTW sport, even the chicks @ OSU can play guitar better than you can. And what's suce s?
Something you do with your band mates?

Most of the places you're talking about are much more expensive to live and take a much bigger percentage of your income.

Embrace those social values along with an empty pocket!

Try Massachusetts - we were first with gay marriage which is now a non-issue, first with universal health care ( signed into law by Gov. Romney), strict gun laws, and while less than an ounce of weed has been "decriminalized", legal recreational use is on the ballot this fall. It's really a very civil place.

" I have trouble imaging a society with genuinely socialized medicine that is otherwise strictly capitalist."
=================================================
Seems to me the UK qualifies as a capitalist economy with a truly world-class health care system (NHS). The NHS provides the best results, at the lost cost, of any health-care system in the world. The UK dictates the salary of MDs, which would be rejected as socialism here and could never happen in the US.

Why America’s Next President Will Not Be a Socialist
http://www.counterpunch.org/2016/01/15/w…

It is true that Sanders is advocating going after the wealthy elites who dominate the economy by raising taxes, closing tax loopholes and placing tax havens off limits while at the same time doubling the minimum wage to help low-income earners. And it is true that he is proposing to also redistribute that wealth in the form of funding universal healthcare, tuition-free university and much-needed infrastructure projects. But none of this constitutes socialism.

Bernie Is Not a Socialist and America Is Not Capitalist
http://www.theatlantic.com/international…

SJG

I don't get the government oppression part, maybe it is because I am not a true liberal, but except for isolated instances government oppression is not the norm here in the United States. I do agree some of the freedoms you want are not available, everywhere, here in this country, but there are places right here at home where these freedoms are readily available maybe the community where you are does not support that, so find a community that does. So like my opening statement says, I don't get the part about government oppression.

Ontario Canada, Universal Basic Income!!!!

http://www.sciencealert.com/a-canadian-p…

I think a basic income guarantee is mandatory. Capitalism is what creates unemployment. And Cecil Williams and the people who run Guild Memorial United Methodist Church in San Francisco have got it right. Poverty is caused by social marginalization.

So a corollary is simply this, everyone wants to do well. They want to win the admiration of family and friends. So if they are not doing well, then there must be some social marginalization or disability at work here. But as the main problem is marginalization, then we should not talk about disability, as usually this just means more marginalization.

And of course it is absurd that people should be accepting psychiatric labels. These are just an extreme form of oppression.

So for there to be justice there has to be this basic income guarantee, or what amounts to cradle to grave welfare.

The typical person on welfare takes far less out of our economy than those employed do. And if the welfare recipient is not driving around much in a car, then they are treading far more lightly on the earth than those who senselessly burn up gas and dump CO2 into the atmosphere to do jobs which produce absolutely nothing which people need to live.

Now welfare takes money out of gov't coffers, but in the US welfare has never been more than 3% of federal expenditure. This is much less than corporate welfare and other expenses directed to the betterment of the middle class in order to maintain political allegiance, or to keeping the poor down. So welfare is a cheaper way to keep our society going than the present state of affairs.

And then as far as federal accounts, it is the federal gov't which controls the printing press, the furnace, and interest rates which multiply the availability of money by the inverse of the interest rate. Suffice to say, federal accounts and the money supply are all under gov't control, hence it is artificial. It is just a matter of who and what are being served by it.

So as those who are not doing well are simply the victims of social injustice, we must redress this social injustice.

1. Stop using psychiatric labels, learning disability labels, or morality labels.

2. Offer people value producing work, not nonsense just to get a paycheck.

3. Provide this cradle to grave welfare system as efficiently as possible, and understand that everyone wants to be a useful and meaningful part of our society.

4. Follow my recommendation and hold parents accountable for exploiting their children, using them to give themselves a adult identity. This amounts to psychological child abuse. So besides criminal prosecution where practical, also prevent disinheritance and offer something like a divorce from one's parents when their is parent v child animosity. Make the parents pay, and pay dearly. Make it so that child exploitation no longer pays.

5. And for those who insist on calling the poor lazy or immoral, know that this is how Capitalism works. It is the family where this starts, with the designation of a child as the blacksheep. Those who denigrate the poor are just doing what their parents did to them. So the poor and marginalized need to start standing up for themselves rather than submitting. They and all of us must start engaging in public advocacy and non-violent civil disobedience.

6. And then since the New Economy and Libertarianism are really just the old Social Darwinism and Eugenics Movement, saying that the poor are not fit to compete, we all need to be prepared to do more than just be non-violent. We don't want to be like Anne Frank's father, hiding in an attic waiting for the Gestapo. We need to be ready to engage in guerrilla warfare, the use of lethal force, and without taking prisoners. Unless we are willing to do this, then we are helping the eugenicists who say that we are not fit to live. Gandhi and Jesus lived in violent revolutionary times. They were only able to accomplish their works because others were maintaining the constant threat of lethal violence on a large scale.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guerrilla_…

SJG

I travel more than about anyone here, and I graduated with honors in political science from a major university. So I understand what I'm talking about RS, we just have very different perspectives on the issues.

Ontario Canada, Universal Basic Income!!!!

www.sciencealert.com/a-canadian-province…

I think a basic income guarantee is mandatory. Capitalism is what creates unemployment. And Cecil Williams and the people who run Guild Memorial United Methodist Church in San Francisco have got it right. Poverty is caused by social marginalization.

So a corollary is simply this, everyone wants to do well. They want to win the admiration of family and friends. So if they are not doing well, then there must be some social marginalization or disability at work here. But as the main problem is marginalization, then we should not talk about disability, as usually this just means more marginalization.

And of course it is absurd that people should be accepting psychiatric labels. These are just an extreme form of oppression.

So for there to be justice there has to be this basic income guarantee, or what amounts to cradle to grave welfare.

The typical person on welfare takes far less out of our economy than those employed do. And if the welfare recipient is not driving around much in a car, then they are treading far more lightly on the earth than those who senselessly burn up gas and dump CO2 into the atmosphere to do jobs which produce absolutely nothing which people need to live.

Now welfare takes money out of gov't coffers, but in the US welfare has never been more than 3% of federal expenditure. This is much less than corporate welfare and other expenses directed to the betterment of the middle class in order to maintain political allegiance, or to keeping the poor down. So welfare is a cheaper way to keep our society going than the present state of affairs.

And then as far as federal accounts, it is the federal gov't which controls the printing press, the furnace, and interest rates which multiply the availability of money by the inverse of the interest rate. Suffice to say, federal accounts and the money supply are all under gov't control, hence it is artificial. It is just a matter of who and what are being served by it.

So as those who are not doing well are simply the victims of social injustice, we must redress this social injustice.

1. Stop using psychiatric labels, learning disability labels, or morality labels.

2. Offer people value producing work, not nonsense just to get a paycheck.

3. Provide this cradle to grave welfare system as efficiently as possible, and understand that everyone wants to be a useful and meaningful part of our society.

4. Follow my recommendation and hold parents accountable for exploiting their children, using them to give themselves a adult identity. This amounts to psychological child abuse. So besides criminal prosecution where practical, also prevent disinheritance and offer something like a divorce from one's parents when their is parent v child animosity. Make the parents pay, and pay dearly. Make it so that child exploitation no longer pays.

5. And for those who insist on calling the poor lazy or immoral, know that this is how Capitalism works. It is the family where this starts, with the designation of a child as the blacksheep. Those who denigrate the poor are just doing what their parents did to them. So the poor and marginalized need to start standing up for themselves rather than submitting. They and all of us must start engaging in public advocacy and non-violent civil disobedience.

6. And then since the New Economy and Libertarianism are really just the old Social Darwinism and Eugenics Movement, saying that the poor are not fit to compete, we all need to be prepared to do more than just be non-violent. We don't want to be like Anne Frank's father, hiding in an attic waiting for the Gestapo. We need to be ready to engage in guerrilla warfare, the use of lethal force, and without taking prisoners. Unless we are willing to do this, then we are helping the eugenicists who say that we are not fit to live. Gandhi and Jesus lived in violent revolutionary times. They were only able to accomplish their works because others were maintaining the constant threat of lethal violence on a large scale.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guerrilla_warfare

Costs Rica maybe?

When I Google "most liberal countries", I see the usual cold-weather suspects. Sweden, Norway, Switzerland, and Canada. But Costa Rica is also on the list.

In Costa Rica, prodtituion is legal. But I porn is not. Go figure

Thank you there Mr. IME for replicating my post and bumping this thread. But I have to ask, are you intoxicated right now. Often it seems that you are, like on a major bender.

SJG

"I fear that an writing a requiem for myself"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sPlhKP0n…

Most Latin American countries don't go for American style extreme blatant nudity. But Prostitution they see as serving multiple social goods.

SJG

In today's San Jose Metro, our arts and entertainment newspaper, they have feature article with advice about moving to Canada if Donald Trump wins.

http://www.sanjoseinside.com/2016/03/14/…

Robert Paxton on Donald Trump
http://www.democracynow.org/2016/3/15/fa…

http://www.democracynow.org/2016/3/15/is…

http://www.democracynow.org/2016/3/17/fa…

John Nichols
http://www.democracynow.org/2016/3/16/do…

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.ph…

SJG

Best of Debussy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qRZmdzCG…

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Claude_Deb…

http://soundzgreg.blogspot.com/2012/01/c…

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Le_Chat_No…

Motor: I'm not moving, but a beachfront house in Costa Rica would be nice! I'd grow my pot out back.

Isn't that where Jurassic World is?