How do strippers manage to buy homes?

Husbands or family members

Uh, strippers and escorts have "other forms of disclousre" that the right bankers will find appealing.

sc,

Excellent question. My ATF used to use a safe deposit box to store money. She kept everything off the radar so banks and such didn't report anything. I just never thought of that aspect.

Perhaps they trade "services"?

Guarantors and third party agreements.

No income verification loans still exist. Credit cards with secured lines of credit or with very low lines allow them to establish a credit history. In a few years that 1000 credit limit will be 10,000 or 20,000 if they use it often and pay it off every month.

Not just strippers, I often wonder how people that I know who had their home foreclosed on and I even know of two different people that just walked away from heavily mortgaged homes and within six months were buying another house. How they were able to get by banking scrutiny I don't know, or understand.

How do dancers buy homes? One dollar at a time.

I would think they pay for their home in cold cash, no mortgages allowed. One and done sort of purchase. That's what I plan to do in the future. They get to own the house AND they owe no one but the sweat on their brow.

I had thin/no credit when I applied to lease my apartment, and my agent at the time provided me with pay stubs for proof of income and a letter of employment. They ran a credit check and I was accepted.

A couple years later I had applied for a student loan which gave me SOME credit, because as I was shopping at Nordstrom, they offered to run a credit check to see if I'd be approved for one of their credit cards. To my surprise, I was. Then I started getting offers in the mail left and right from various banks for credit cards. I opened two more credit cards. After about 6 months I checked my credit score and it had shot up more than 200 points.

I have always been approved for car leases/finances since then.

To K even no income verification loans require documentation now, the rules have changed tremendously.

Also it could be since that the responsible adult escort some how managed to either over time or otherwise get her dirty dollars into a bank without the IRS asking questions. And as for a purchase itself, either they are buying the deed OR they have good credit from other purchases like a car loan finished being paid off (the easiest form of credit to build in my opinion)

I personally know 5 dancers that lost their homes during 2008/2009 sub-prime mortgage crisis.

Easy financing was available during the initial boom period but when their adjustable rate mortgages went up, they no longer could make payments.

I'm willing to bet a lot of dancers who obtained subprime loans during that time lost their homes.

Everyone had great points above but I will add one that hasn't been mentioned. Percentage put down. In a lot of cases if you put a sizable chunk of money down it will open a lot of doors even if you don't have stellar credit.

Lastly, banks will look at the investment, the amount and the location that can play part as well. Real estate has come back pretty good in a lot of places and banks will bang out those loans, since they know they can flip the property again if the loan applicant forcloses.

@shailynn I always wondered if the amount of down you put can perhaps better your chances for a good loan rate. After all, if your credit is overall "eh" but it seems you really now how to save money and have no current debts to pay, why shouldn't they give you a second chance, especially if you got a nice big ol' bank.

^^^ that's right.

When I applied for my loan, by putting a big enough down payment got me all sorts of benefits. I didn't have to pay private mortgage insurance (protection for the bank if you default) and got an extra .25% off the rate. At that time that was a huge discount. When the market crashed I refinanced for less than half my original rate, and 5 years later the rates haven't gone up much, I'd say you have 1 to 2 years before they climb again. But I'm no Dougster so don't take my prediction to the bank.

Putting that big down payment helps a lot!

Here is a trick one stripper used to buy a house. She did mega VIP business at the club. Then she set up a 'pole dancing' company / classes , that the MILFs loved to come to. The stripper funneled her strip club money through it. After several years, she bought great house and stopped dancing. She was one smart gal.

My knowledge is limited about banking practices, but I do know that if you walked away from a mortgage and all of a sudden showed up with a large enough sum of money, to put down on a new home the bank can and often does try to grab at that money to make good your original debt so my theory, is that there are straw man purchases being made in many places but it still seems funny that mortgages are being granted to those folks that walked away from underwater loans, even though they had the means to pay those debts unlike in the case of foreclosures, there were calculated moves to avoid or evade a legitimate debt.

Strippers may buy houses thru relatives. They can also buy from relatives or close friends. Seller-financed mortgages are another option.

Yes, that home purchase can surface their money and get them into trouble with the IRS. I was explaining to one who was asking about such that what they look for is when you lifestyle exceeds your reported income. And of course mortgage payments can't be hidden from the IRS computers.

Lots of long term strippers buy homes. I think it relates to the realization that they are in this for keeps, and that they are off of the marriage block.

For lots of AMP girls, that home ownership is a big part of their social identity. It is extremely important to them. They come from a more conservative culture and it is the substitute for being married.

Some do sessions there, and that's real nice. I mean, you know what the money is going for, paying her mortgage. Rather like a share a wife system. And also, they pitch this home aspect of it, meaning that there are no other collateral costs. :)

The ones who do this are good at it too. They give good auditions when you session with them at the AMP. They let you see that they are ones you would want to spend more time with and be seeing regularly. :)

I've wondered if some of them retain professional money laundering services. I suspect that in Asian subcultures that this is common. For example, places I used to use a credit card at always went through some Sea Food Restaurant. So the restaurant had to be real, real enough to have a merchant account at a bank. So girls could hand their money to this restaurant, and then get paid on the books. Then their money could be tax deductible as mortgage interest. I know that in many corners of Asian sub cultures, such cooked books and all are common, as is straight out under the table operation.

SJG

Golden Dawn Documentary - Aleister Crowley and the Golden Dawn
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Ecjbag6…

Inside The Secret Teachings Of ALL Ages (MANLY P HALL) HD
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NNUQ1f8U…

Stan Tenen - Decoding the Hebrew Text of Genesis
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WMDXr7fj…

Giant Outdoor Chess Set
http://www.chesshouse.com/giant_chess_se…

Did you know that the address number of the Masonic Temple is Salt Lake City is 666?
https://s3.amazonaws.com/gs-waymarking-i…

Albert Pike
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albert_Pik…
they don't mention that he is cofounder of the KKK

http://civilwarstudies.org/articles/vol_…

http://freedocumentaryonline.org/metaphy…

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julius_Evo…
most people consider this guy to be a fascist

http://spitfirelist.com/for-the-record/f…
Julius Evola as something similar to Albert Pike

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cipher_Man…

http://www.amazon.com/Secrets-Golden-Daw…

They rent them. Stripper at Cover Girls I was seeing Otc was renting home w stripper friend. They danced to recruit escort clients.

No different than a waiter or waitress or bartender. It's not hard to qualify for a car loan as long as you have a good credit score and down payment. qualifying for a home loan where your income has to be verified can be a more difficult thing.

As far as large amount transfers of money. I know that banks had to report them and I guess they still do. But do others have to do the same thing?

"qualifying for a home loan where your income has to be verified "

Where have I NOT heard that before?

Feds have complete access to your bank records at all times.

The issue is taxation, and I guess also concern about organized crime.

So the issue is how to report the money and pay tax. Then mortgage interest can be deducted.

SJG

If a stripper wants to buy a home there are several things she will need. There is an established credit history - that demonstrates she can reliably repay her debts on a monthly basis. This is an easy one - but it takes time - as the banker won't care that you just opened a Macy's card and paid off a few months on time. This requires at least a year of reliably paying the balance monthly. Remember - don't let your balance rise and just pay the minimum payment - as that balance will be evaluated against your mortgage payment when they decide if you can pay your mortgage payment.

By having a charge card - you've established credit - and that's a good thing for other creditors. Now - if you want to open a Visa card account - they will be more willing to extend credit to you because you have a history. By having a Visa card - you now establish a credit limit or high credit - and that's good too.

The challenge is to get approved for a mortgage - if you don't pay taxes. Tax records provide bankers with income history - legal income history - not just saying "I made bank last night!" - that doesn't work anymore.

You can put a large down payment down - but nowadays bankers are not prone to take risks without history of reliable income. Definitely shoot for a 22-25% down payment as the more you put down - the less concern the banker will have about you walking away from the property. Also - in case you do walk out - the bank will take less of a loss. The more you put down - the lower the interest rate should be - and you should avoid paying pmi (insurance) and the lower points paid too.

A cosignor is more accepted in car loans - as they are assets that are more quickly transferable - and they involve less transfer costs. Banks don't want more foreclosures now - as they've taken loads of shitty loans and sold them for cents on the dollar.

Beware of adjustable rate mortgages. There is only one direction that rates can move - as there isn't room for rates to drop.

I've never looked at a loan application for a stripper yet - but I've been out of direct consumer lending for a long time now.

Getting a mortgage loan is not like applying for a Visa or MasterCard. A mortgage lender will also want proof of an income history. Usually this is exactly the type of proof that a stripper will not want to have. :)

I know someone who was running an artist's commune. Most of the people were musicians. The issue was that they didn't have proof of an income history so they couldn't rent lots of apartments. But of course, they did not really want to have that proof.

SJG

Warning, stuff like this is almost always a denial system! Its not justice, its a drug.
Overcoming an Abusive Childhood -(CBS New York)- TEAL is Interviewed by Bob Salter on WFAN
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qKh5sRFH…

One more thing - while I'm on a roll. If you don't declare any income (or if you declare a tiny income) to avoid taxes - and you have a decent bank balance - there will be questions about where that bank balance came from.

This is where the laws get invasive. Since 9/11 and due to money laundering laws - those deposits will be impossible to show they came from legitimate sources - and that is a red flag. Your money isn't from questionable sources - but its probably deposited in irregular amounts below 10,000 - which is another threshold to avoid taxation.

So it's a huge challenge now - to take a chance and approve someone without specific verifiable income.

It's much easier to approve someone for a car loan or lease - as I can repossess that car - run it through the car wash - and get the cash for it in a matter of days. A house takes months - and time costs money - and the more time - the more money that is lost.

Just say the movie, The Big Short, and there's a scene in which Steve Carrell asks a stripper in Vegas how she got her second mortgage approved and she replies she there isn't any income verification at all, she has not two but five homes. Excellent movie btw, an eye opener on the excesses and fraud of Wall Street banksters.

Mortgage rules are being more strictly enforced now than prior to 2008. Usually if one can put over 35% down payment then the lender can live with a lower credit score but income verification must still be done for the mortgage to be approved. I guess there are still less scrupulous small lenders who will provide loans for non-verified income earners who these are called sub-prime mortgages and carry higher interest rates.

There are still many mortgages for the self employed in this country. Like credit cards, they are more credit score based than income based.

If the dancer lets her credit scores drop, then all bets are off, of course. If one assumes cash based employees are more irresponsible or unknowing about making credit on time payments to credit reporting creditors, then she will see her chances of a mortgage or credit cards dwindle.

Bottom line, though, is that a stripper who pays attention could easily have a mortgage, car loan, and multiple credit cards.

self employed? But I believe that would require financial records and taxes prepared by a license preparer. All of these are things strippers will not want to have.

SJG

I visited an old stripper friend today. She has a host of health issues and hasn't worked much for the past year. We were talking $$ and she said she always files taxes for the earned income credit plus she claims exemptions which don't exist. She said she lost her W-2 but only had $25 withheld anyway. She said the manager of her club has offered to certify whatever she needs - more income if applying for a loan or less for tax purposes.
One of her health problems has been a narrowing of her sphincter muscle in her throat dictating a liquid diet. As she lifted her head from my dick today, she said I'm so glad I could swallow. I said me too.

One I knew was being required by the IRS to ask club management for verifications.

But you see, this is nothing compared to a history of band deposits and tax returns. But strippers don't want this. And I would not either.

So this is where the need for at least some degree of money laundering comes in. You get some of it laundered and pay tax on it.

SJG

I was told by a stripper she had her manager write up an income verification letter so she could get approved for an apartment. Sounds like BS but I guess it works.

Also I know one who had her "friend" aka customer co-sign on an apartment.

I'm very skeptical of that. And also, when there are not banking records and tax returns to back that up, that amounts to presenting the perspective lender with evidence of tax evasion.

SJG

San Jose guy, no disrespect, but you are not understanding how mortgage loans can be underwritten and approved. What makes you think a tax return has to be prepared by a licensed professional? Tax filings can be done by any stripper.

Do you understand what score based loans are? Right or wrong, there are plenty of mortgage lenders extending mortgages to people based on credit scores--yes, even today.

There is a big difference between a manager writing a letter to provide an income level and tax documents. If I saw a letter - and then I saw no tax records to support the income stated in the letter - I'd realize there was something fishy - and it wouldn't get approved. Think about it - a letter from Jimmy Two Shakes at the Red Light Saloon vs IRS tax returns -

Score only mortgages - with a high down payment - are ok - as long as you can lock in an interest rate - and there aren't a load of conditions that kick in if you miss a payment - or accidentally pay late once or twice.

" you are not understanding how mortgage loans can be underwritten "

I am not in the mortgage loan biz or anything like that. And I don't know all the rules. Some kinds of loans can be made just by credit scores, like for credit cards.

But when someone wants a large loan, and at very low interest like is expected with mortgage loans, then I would suspect that they want more.

It would be bank records and tax records. And for the later, I know that lenders only look at stuff done by a professional preparer. Anyone can prepare taxes, but that is worthless. I could complete tax forms saying that I earn $100 Meg per year and pay taxes on that.

So what I think most people are missing is that strippers aren't likely to have any such records of their income, nor would they want to. They can avoid taxes specifically because there are no records and they would never want to change this.

So for those few situation where they want records, maybe they engage in money laundering tactics, knowing that they will have to then pay taxes? I don't know. For a home loan that would be okay, as the interest will be tax deductible. But say for a car loan, no. Better to pay cash.

I don't think strippers have this all figured out going in. Most assume that they'll be transitioning to conventional employment so these issues will evaporate.

SJG

From your comments SJG - I'd recommend the stripper wait until she reaches the stage where she has decided she's ready for conventional employment.

There are a bunch of issues relating to someone who is attempting to conceal income. The first is my suspicion that the income is from illegal means. If that's the case - then I'm not going to loan any money to her - as the house will be subject to a search and seizure - once the illegal source is discovered by law enforcement.

Also - if her income is sketchy - then if she gets sick - I would highly doubt she has any insurance - so that's another risk. Another red flag.

I used to package mortgage loans for sale - and there were many ways to package them - but the low scores and questionable customers were the ones I would usually need to hold - as nobody wants those loans.

"wait until she reaches the stage where she has decided she's ready for conventional employment"
Yes of course. I think most go into stripping believing that it is very short term. And most don't buy anything like a house until they have good conventional employment. It is a minority who go full pro, like as escorts, and then do want to buy a house. So yes, they need cosigners, the backing of other people, any maybe money laundering. ( and understand that the purpose of money laundering is not to evade taxes, it is to make the money subject to taxation. )

"income is from illegal means. If that's the case - then I'm not going to loan any money to her "
Well stripping is not illegal, but lots of other stuff is. But usually strippers get paid via cash and so they don't report their money, so that makes it illegal. So I am sure that they will have problems when seeking large credit. But for most, this is more than offset by the additional money they have by evading payrole and income taxes, and schedule SE.

"if her income is sketchy - then if she gets sick - I would highly doubt she has any insurance "
Well yes, of course it is sketchy. And of course there is very little safety net.

SJG

I am sure that this underground money aspect is why stripper seem to end up with pimps and drug dealers for boyfriends. And I suspect that a guy who gets involved with strippers is likely to become a pimp or drug dealer himself.

Most of the people more than casually involved in the operation of AAMPs got in via an AAMP girlfriend.

Under the table money does something to people psychologically. It is a feeling of power. Those who always stay on the legal side have a hard time understanding this.

And also, lots of retail venues, owner operated, do not comply with the tax code at all. They keep as much money off the books as possible. No wonder than that many do cross over the line into narcotics or gambling if times turn tough.

SJG

SJG - it's simple to me. If she's making a living - and she's able to amass enough of a bank account to think she can afford a mortgage - then she's making enough money to get audited and end up paying a significant amount of back taxes.

When I worked in restaurants - the waitresses still reported income. A portion of their wage was a minimal hourly amount. The rest was tips. I can't vouch for whether they reported a portion of the tips or the full amount each day - but something was reported.

It's not going to work if a dancer is making over $10,000 a month - but reporting $2,000 a month - and she's driving a new BMW - and yet she reports an income that is $24,000 - and has a large bank account - or if she has $50,000 in designer clothes, handbags, jewelry, etc.

As a banker - it tells me she's not declaring something - and whether it's legally obtained or not - i wouldn't know - so that's when I take a pass on that loan.

If it's one of those internet only banks with interest rates that are sky high - and they are just writing the loan so they can sell it for a few pennies on the dollar - then that's their risk appetite -

Cashman, your posting illustrates my point perfectly. You are someone who has never lived in association with those in the underground economy of pimps and prostitutes.

Most strippers have never filed an income tax return in their entire life. The smart one's know that they can't put much money into banks.

So there are no records of their earnings, and they want it this way.

Ones who have bought houses, like in conjunction with a husband, have gotten into the worst sorts of tax troubles as their money is being surfaced and they are not prepared for this with tax filings.

People who get lots of under the table money know that they cannot put it into banks.

SJG

@samsung1 you didn't know that you need an income verification letter to rent some places? It's the new norm these days

SJG as you can see - my experience is from the legit side of lending. It's not likely that the legitimate lending practices will change - and it's not likely that the underground community has any desire to change either.

The worst thing to do is to begin declaring income at a random date - as there will always be questions of when the money train began.

^^^^^^
"SJG as you can see - my experience is from the legit side of lending. It's not likely that the legitimate lending practices will change - and it's not likely that the underground community has any desire to change either.
"

YES!

Well, people usually do start declaring at least some income at some date. There are reasons to bring it onto the books. Stripping money is not illegal unless unreported. And then home mortgage interest is tax deductible.

There are ways to rig it all so that one owns very little and gets paid very little and pays very little in taxes. This is not illegal, it is just pushing the laws to their limits. But doing this is way beyond the abilities of ordinary people.

We have a huge underground economy in this country. Some is because it involves illicit trade. But other is just because it operates in cash with no records and so it is conducive to tax evasion. But others do use the existing laws so that they avoid most taxation.

I think the original question about strippers and home purchase is a very good one.

SJG

The Rosicrucian Mysteries, Max Heindel, Oceanside California
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wrdl0JXa…

Interesting
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iW5qKYfq…

SJG
https://sites.google.com/site/sjgportal/

http://www.democracynow.org/2016/2/18/ap…

Also Rocky Anderson of Salt Lake City
http://www.democracynow.org/2016/1/29/fo…

Discussion of Front Room Makeout Sessions
https://www.tuscl.net/postread.php?PID=4…

Jestrite50 on requirement of front room makeout sessions
https://www.tuscl.net/postread.php?PID=3…

and here:
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Anyone ever seen this? It does not look good.
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Doors - The End
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JSUIQgEV…

The IRS doesn't care how you make money, just whether or not you pay taxes. If an 'entertainer' files a tax return, there is your record of income. Pay a credit card or two on time there is you credit history. Paying cash is theoretically easiest, but how do you explain walking into a settlement company with 100's of thousands in bills?

"
If an 'entertainer' files a tax return
"

People still don't get it. The above hypothetical is something which never occurs. And why on earth would they want to file? They are avoiding state and federal income tax, social security tax, and a bunch of other payrole taxes.

This country has a huge underground cash economy. ( for that reason I have suggested transitioning to real property taxes instead of income or sales tax )

And as far as making a few credit card payments, that's enough to get you an few more credit cards, but not a home mortgage.

SJG

Atlantic City, one of the largest pipe organs ever built. Look how high the ceiling is. More information to come.
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Yes, it is the largest in the world!
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It is one of only two organs in the world to have an open 64-foot rank, and the only organ to have stops voiced on 100 inches of wind pressure (about 3.6 psi). Its console features seven manuals.

The pedal manual can be divided into left and right divisions

10x 32 foot stops

The Diaphone-Dulzian's low-C pipe stands 59 feet (18 m) tall, weighs 3,350 pounds (1,520 kg), and produces a frequency of 8 Hz,[10] a tone that is more felt than heard; the sound of the vibrating pallet is described as "a helicopter hovering over the building". The pipe stands upright for about 40 feet (12 m), the remainder is mitred (turned) towards the Right Stage chamber's grill. All pipes taller than 32 feet (9.8 m) are designed in this manner.

The organ's wind supply is the most powerful ever used in a pipe organ. The DC motors for the original eight blowers had a total power of 394 horsepower (294 kW). These were replaced with AC motors in the early 1990s, which have a total of 600 horsepower (450 kW) and their seven blowers produce 36,400 cubic feet (1,030 m3) of wind per minute.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boardwalk_…

Some of the lower manuals are not only 61 keys, they are 73 or 85 keys!
( some piano music is written to take up all 88. But nothing in the standard piano repertoire goes beyond that , as with Boesendorfer's 97 keys.
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I saw one just like this in a local store, priced to sell at only $180k.
http://www.boesendorfer.com/download/BSD…
)

http://www.amazon.com/Atlantic-Citys-Mus…

Largest Pipe Organs In The World
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_pi…

Code Red Warning! This is like ColdnShallow turned into a 501.c3
http://www.pornkillslove.com/

3 Nights in Tunisia - Diz, Jimmy Smith, Barbara Dennerlein
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5bG4a7Ir…
acoustic piano action could never go as fast as these people do. I think even a semi-weighted keyboard would be too slow.

Barbara Dennerlein plays boogie woogie
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MPqYZNqg…

Barbara Dennerlein - Organ Boogie
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xitANInT…

barbara dennerlein night in Tunisia
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7tS9wOnb…

Dennerlein play list
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LYP7Mxss…

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Another route is buying a manufactured home. Those loans are often to people with sketchy credit and they are underwritten by smaller finance companies, not traditional banks which want to bundle off a mortgage into Wall Street securities.

@William027, wow, can your guy help me score $15 OTC, too, if I email him my SSN?

My take some time to get a reply from Nigeria or India.

If I were in a cash business, I would always file an income tax return at a level that matched my lifestyle. Otherwise, you are just begging for an audit.
Beyond that, I’d declare a higher income for a year or two before I planned to buy a house. Of course, that takes planning and discipline.

Is that the people that hacked Equifax?

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Great way to land in Federal prison.