OT: Deflategate investigation finally released

I hope for a suspension, and at least take away 2nd/3rd rounder. Fckn cheating ass patriot (tuck rule my ass....go Raiders! !!)

Don't think for a moment that Belacheat didn't give his blessings.

Good point, it would be very difficult to prove that Belacheat wasn't aware of it if Brady told him about it in person when they were alone instead of through a text or phone call.

My thing is, if you were Brady and facing these accusations and you were truly innocent, wouldn't you turn in your cell phone so they could review your texts to prove you had no knowledge of it? Yes, it's giving up your privacy but it would also clear his name. Sounds to me like he's hiding something.

I really hope he gets suspended but I doubt it will happen for a few reasons:

1. Robert Kraft has done a lot for the NFL and suspending Brady would be punishing Kraft. Kraft was very vocal in his support of Goodell during the Ray Rice clusterfuck.

2. The Patriots open the season on a Thursday against the Steelers. Would the NFL really suspend the starting quarterback of the defending champs? What would that say about the NFL? "Yeah, this first game is about celebrating the Patriots championship (raising the flag etc) but oh by the way, we have suspended their QB for cheating last year".

3. They hardly suspended Ray Rice at first but yet they would suspend Brady for a game or two over a fairly minor level of cheating?

I really want him suspended and I hope Belicheat gets suspended too even though he supposedly had no knowledge. The Captain of a ship is held accountable for all actions on their ship even if they were unaware. A head coach should be treated the same.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zw3tyAkG…

I think he'll be suspended for 3-5 games. Roethlisberger got suspended for 6 games, reduced to 4, for basically nothing. Le'veon Bell 3 games for driving on pot.

Brady's accusation is serious like Pete Rose b/c it affects the integrity of the game.

It doesn't matter that Rose always bet on his team or that NE would have won anyway.

Damn cheatin' ass Patriots.

What a bunch of bologna. There is not a shred of direct evidence against Brady and what little circumstantial evidence exists is weak. It is all inferences and speculation.

Thank goodness that we live in a country where a man could never be convicted of a crime in a court of law based upon garbage "evidence" like this. Frankly, I don't see how they could support a suspension recommendation based upon that so-called evidence either.

This is all they could find? After the enormous resources devoted to investigating this purported crime, which btw experts cannot even agree provides any significant competitive advantage to a QB anyway?

^^^ So, rules don't have to be followed because there isn't any seemingly competitive advantage. ... come'on RBD. That's where the ship starts to sink.

And get off Tom's dick. I thought you liked women .

GACA, show me a single piece of direct evidence that shows Tom directing someone to deflate balls, or even show me something where he indicates that he knew that they were below mandated specs, and I'll get off Tom's dick and lick your snatch instead. ;)

Come on Rick?

The guys life since age 18, if not earlier, has been holding a football. He's familiar enough with them to know if they're inflated properly or not. Though i'll grant there doesn't seem to be any evidence he told anyone to deflate them though it seems unlikely anyone would have done so unless they were positive he would want it that way.

Got it jester. So it's your contention that we should suspend a QB, costing him million of dollars in pay and hurting the team's record, based solely upon the theory that the QB should have known whether a football was at the proper PSI by feel alone?

Damned jealous haters. Brady's only punishment should be a requirement that he read the entire report.
Didn't the referee and line judge handle the football on every play? Wouldn't you think these paragons of virtue and football aficionados would have noticed the .6 psi difference if it made a rats ass?
During the second half of the game when everyone's balls were properly inflated how many points did NE score? Give it up.

Where did I say anything about a suspension?

Is it your contention that he would be unable to tell if a ball was properly inflated?

Or just that nobody can prove for certain that he absolutely knew someone had purposefully deflated them?

Those guys broke the rules. Did Brady tell them to do it? Maybe. Did he know someone did something? Probably. Should he be punished for it? Not if they can't say more definitively, though the team should see some kind of punishment.

If this was anyone but the Pats you'd agree.

Real simple. I doubt 100% that the two locker room flunkys came up with this on their own. If so, then no one mentioned it. Here are any number of professional players that touch the balls in a game. No one mentioned it. As a former center, with a tight grip on the ball for a quick hard snap, he wouldn't mention it. How naive would one have to believe that the entire team isn't guilty? Add in the history of this team, and there is no doubt. Never really was except to the blind idiots in this world.

I can't really think of a punishment to fit the "crime". Maybe sit out an ENTIRE draft. At least a $1,000,000 fine and a years suspension for all involved. Remember New Orleans and they didn't cheat!

One other thing, Robert Kraft and Hernandez.. Wasn't he the one that said he talked to Hernandez and believed him? Maybe if he believed a murderer, he'd believe anybody.

Seriously, Rick?

The Colts linebacker that intercepted a pass immediately detected the ball was underinflated. And you believe Tom Brady who touches the ball on evey single play would NOT notice? C'mon Rick, your not looking at it with an unbiased view.

For sake,if I ever got flagged for the infractions I committed in life to make the almighty $ it would be game over. Just win baby.

@footballguy: "My thing is, if you were Brady and facing these accusations and you were truly innocent, wouldn't you turn in your cell phone so they could review your texts to prove you had no knowledge of it?"

Fuck no. If they want my phone, they can subpoena it. Until then, fuck 'em. If they don't have enough evidence to make their case, why would I give them something from which they can construe association, or take out of context, or use some other manipulation? Not to mention all the naked stripper pictures.

While the NFL isn't obligated to stand by the same "innocent until *proven* guilty" stance that the courts are, if you don't give them evidence, they can't use it against you, and asserting one's privacy is not an admission of guilt, irrespective of what some McCarthy-esque types might maintain.

All that can be remotely proven is that a ball guy played a bit fast and loose with inflation of the balls. If you want to fine the team for it, since rules ARE rules after all, I have no issue with it. But the punishment should fit the crime. Experts cannot even agree as to if, or how much of, an advantage is gained by violating ball inflation specs, so this is not exactly an earth shattering infraction . Some QBs actually prefer their footballs to be inflated closer to the max range as they find it easier to throw a hard and fast spiral - it is a matter of preference and comfort for each passer.

So with all of that said, this crap floating around about taking away draft picks is ludicrous. And as far as Brady goes, they just don't have enough evidence against him and, even if they did, see paragraph above. And we cannot punish a guy who we cannot prove did anything wrong, period.

Oh, and for those of you who are ready to string him up because you believe that he failed to apply the "Feel Test" while he was in game play, it may be a good thing that the Pats are in MA. After all, Foxborough is only about an hour drive from Salem and it's been a long time since that town saw a good witch trial. ;)

The league action should be akin to league action for corking a baseball bat or doctoring the baseball. It is the same thing. I would be fine with a 1/16 season suspension without pay for Brady himself (in baseball, 10 game suspensions are common -- that is about 1/16 of the season). Since the club employees were also complicit, a fine and a low draft pick should provide adequate future deterrance.
They were going to win the game anyway.

Cheating is cheating.

Rick: put down the Patriots Kool-aid -- you're better than that.

I ask again pension, what are you going to use as evidence to justify suspending Brady? Nobody has an answer to that other than saying "well he really should have known by handling the ball." So you want to strip him of a game and a million bucks (which is about what he would lose) because he didn't apply the "Feel Test?" Seriously?

Now my biases are well known around here, but I also don't support my team winning at all cost. I only feel good about a win when I know that it was clean. Given this (as I posted before)...

"Experts cannot even agree as to if, or how much of, an advantage is gained by violating ball inflation specs, so this is not exactly an earth shattering infraction . Some QBs actually prefer their footballs to be inflated closer to the max range as they find it easier to throw a hard and fast spiral - it is a matter of preference and comfort for each passer."

...I am not convinced that this gave the Pats some egregious advantage over the other team.

Believe it or not, if they had hard evidence against Brady, I would support more serious punishment for Brady. But they don't have any direct evidence against hima. Nada. What kind of world do we live in that we punish a guy who we cannot prove committed a crime? Even the NFL has to have some standard, even if it is not as rigorous as that needed in a court of law.

An under inflated football is easier for a reciever to catch and easier for a running back to tuck it in.

Seriously? The NFL LOVES their superstars and worships their dream franchises (i.e., how often do I have to watch the shitty Cowboys? Because the NFL says they are a marquis team and so I must). There is no way they would pursue action against Brady, Belicheat or the Pats without smoking guns to compel them to do so. The NFL didn't pursue this willingly -- the media forced them to investigate and is beating the drums for action now.

Brady has admitted on camera that he can tell small differences between footballs and has definite preferences. He has admittted checking game balls personally to find those he prefers. Please give the doe-eyed babe-in-the-woods routine a rest, Tommy. Albert Belle got caught. Sammy Sosa got caught. The Falcons got caught. Hey Pats, your table is ready.

IMO the Pats should take their soon-to-be free time and polish their Lombardi Trophy. I'm sure every other franchise would trade 1 minor draft choice for a Championship, if they thought that was all it would take.

From Ricdugan: 15 Hours Ago • What a bunch of bologna. There is not a shred of direct evidence against Brady and what little circumstantial evidence exists is weak. It is all inferences and speculation.

Thank goodness that we live in a country where a man could never be convicted of a crime in a court of law based upon garbage "evidence" like this.

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The evidence against Brady is overwhelming. All but 1 of the footballs measured were illegally soft except for one. That one was for the kicker. Coincidence? Okay...

And as for being convicted in a court, tell that to the 50% of people on IL Death Row who tested negative in DNA evidence for the crimes they were accused of. 50%! What kind of evidence were they convicted on you think? If this were a legal case, there would be subpoena power on Brady's phone. Since it's not, the "commissioner" has final say. Unlike the Rice incident where all 30 owners hoped it would go away, there's a body of owners tired of the Patriots cheating. They will pressure him for what I think is fair: a 2 game suspension. Brady would appeal, delaying the implementation and thus the NFL gets their Patriots on Thursday night. It will be reduced to one week, served the following Sunday.
Rick, are you serious?

Didn't answer my questions Rick.

Do you really believe that Brady couldn't tell the balls had been deflated and/or wasn't aware someone had done it on his behalf?

Or are you just shouting that there's not enough evidence (to a degree I concur) and thus it should all be left alone?

@rockstar: The evidence against Brady is non-existent. He's the QB, not the equipment manager. There is not a shred of concrete evidence indicating that Brady directed anyone to deflate balls or that he even knew about it.

@jester: I don't know what he knew or believed and neither does anyone else. We are not mind readers. But I'm not ready to subject any guy to substantial punishment solely under the theory that his hands are supposed to be accurate pressure gauges.

The whole team probably knew it. Punish Belicheat. He's the captain of the ship.

Come on Rick, don't duck the question.

There's a simple explaination for the pressure discrepancy. The pregame inflation readings were likely taken in a locker room with a temperature of 70 degrees. Take the ball outside with temperature in the 20's, the pressure is going to drop. I saw this on an extended business trip with a severe temperature drop. My tires were borderline low on the rushed 60 degree day drive. When I returned late night after a cold front passage several days later with temp in the low 20's, I lost 3psi and got a low pressure warning light on the tires. Same thing for football going from warm office to much colder field.

Brady is basically the Barry Bonds of Football at this point. Bellecheat has a shady history with rule following already.

It's a shame, because both are talented without cheating.

I'm a Pirate fan. I hate Barry(choked in the playoffs three years in a row) Bonds

He cheated when he knew the rules were broken period. Whether Tom directly told them or just hinted strongly is irrelevant, he knew the balls were low. He also tried to hide what he knew and obstruct the investigation. If he was dumb enough to cheat (break the rules ) and there was no clear advantage the he needs to be suspended even longer for being dumb and cheating with no clear advantage. Of course there are advantages RBD don't kid yourself. If it had been Peyton and the Broncos went on to win the Superbowl there would be a Baltimore incident going on in Boston...

@Rick, Look at this from another perspective. What if this happened to Payton Manning a few years ago when he was on the Colts? Imagine if this came out after a playoff game against the Patriots, don't you think all the Patriots fans that are supporting Brady would all of a sudden demand a suspension for Manning?

@Minnow, I really hope your last post was meant to be sarcastic. That is the weakest defense of all. Yes the tire thing is true, but how is it that the weather would cause the Patriots footballs to deflate but NOT the Colts footballs?

I know that hypothetically if the Colts footballs started at higher PSI than the Patriots that the Colts could lose air and still be above 12 PSI. But the investigation accounted for this. They said the Patriots footballs lost air at a greater rate (percentage) than the Colts did. So your theory just doesn't work. What's next, are you gonna say the lost air from Gronk spiking them?

Also, the investigators only rowers able to recover the texts and call logs from the two locker room guys after they had already intwrvied them a few times. Once they recovered the data they asked the Patriots if they could interview them again to ask them about the texts and the Patriots refused. Sounds like they are trying to hide something. Also the biggest red flag of all is one of the Guys called himself the Deflator. That's a pretty odd thing to call yourself that unless you are actually doing it.

I am a fan of the Steelers and the Dolphins. I hate the Patriots. I also think that "Deflategate" is a waste of everybody's time and I think that slipping Brady a multimillion dollar fine, particularly for an unproven minor offense, is totally ludicrous.

^What ATAC said, except about being a Steelers and Dolphins fan and hating the Pats. ;)

@footballguy: I'm sure I'd be much more ready to believe bad things about the Prima Donna Manning than I would about Tom Brady. I am biased without a doubt. But I would be no more ready to see serious penalties leveled at him with no real evidence that he committed the crime. I don't subscribe to lynch mob mentalities - they are for people who are too weak and/or stupid to think for themselves.

@Rick. At least you admit that you are biased, I respect that. I'll admit that I don't like Brady or the Patriots at all, so I am biased the other way. The main thing that bugs me is people think Brady is squeaky clean. I guarantee you he acts differently around his teammates then he acts around the media. But then again, I'm sure many of us PL's act differently I. A strip club then we do around our Significant others/friends/families.

I also just New Englan media, most of them just kiss up so badly to New England teams that they can't even fathom that some of them try to cheat or get an edge. It's pretty obvious David Ortiz has done steroids and he acts like a prick (interuppting his manager press conference a few years ago to complain about not getting credited with an RBI for example). And a couple years ago when Clay Bucholz put sun screen on his forearm so he could put it in the ball, someone in the media (I think it was Dennis Ecketsly) actually said he didn't cheat because "he's too good to cheat and doesn't need to cheat". What about Barry Bonds and Alex Rodriguez? They had hall of fame talent before steroids and they still cheated. Let's face it, most athletes try to get an edge one way or another.

I just wanted Brady suspended for one game. To me fining him $25K wouldn't do anything. But I think suspense sing him the same amount of games as someone who took steroids or beat a woman or assaulted on just sends the wrong message.

football, I ask yet again, based upon what evidence should he be suspended?

Honestly, I have never understood all of the Brady haters out there. What has this guy ever done to anyone other than beat their teams? Seriously now. He is loved by his team and his fans precisely because of the way he is, including:

- He is still humble and readily accepts blame when he screws up on the field;
- He never whines about what other teams are doing or the refs, even when other teams are blatantly raping Pats receivers in the field;
- He still puts his body on the line for the team during every game and is still the most fired up guy on the sideline;
- We never read about goofy shit in the newspapers like parties, DUIs, etc.; and
- He doesn't pull any of that superstar/rockstar shit and still mixes it up with the fans.

How many other NFL QBs can you say all of these things about?

f-guy- Some of the Colts footballs (4 as I recall) were found to be under-inflated. Being there is a ~1 psi spread in allowable tolerances the balls at or near the lower edge of the limit would be underinflated when brought out to the much colder environment. I'm not a Pats fan, but I don't care for the guilty til proven innocent tone being taken.

Oh, and lest we forget, the guy even took a reduced salary in order to leave his team with cap space for other players. Name a single other star QB, playing today, that has done that. A single one.

That's the type of guy that Tom Brady is. He wants to win so bad that he left many millions on the table. By rights he should be the highest, or very close to highest, paid QB in the game today, but there are 16 guys ahead of him, most of whom are now choking their teams with their contracts.

&Rick, I'll admit that part of the reason I don't like Brady is because he is good. And I admit it's impressive and respectable that he has never been in any trouble off the field. But please don't tell me he never whines to the refs. It seems like any time he gets hit after a throw he looks at the ref asking for a flag.

I realize he is one of the best QB's of all time. But I think people overlook that he has played in a crap division pretty much all of his career. He is great in the regular season but he had a pretty big stretch of being average in the playoffs.

And as far as there being enough evidence:
1. One of the locker room attendants referred to himself as "the deflator"
2. Brady didn't cooperate with the investigation by not turning in his phone. He also may have lied during the interview. He claims he never heard of McNally.
3. He didn't talk to JJ on the phone for six months and then as soon as they find out about the investigation he starts talking to him on the phone over the next few days. Don't you find it odd that a locker room attendant would text Tom Brady at 7:30 in the morning the day after the AFC championship asking Brady to call him, and then Brady calls him within 5 minutes?
4. Brady met with one of the attendants in the QB room a couple days after the game. And Brady had never invited him to this room before, so why now? Brady says it was to thank him for his work and talk about prepping the balls for the super bowl but why would they need to have this conversation in private?

@Minnow, yes, some of the 4 Colts balls was below the minimum, but they checked them with two different gauges. All four Colts balls was within the legal range according to at least one of the gauges. All 12 of the Patriots footballs failed BOTH gauges. And like I said, it's not like both the Colts and the patriots football lost half a pound of PSI eah. The Colts only lost about a half a pound while the Patriots lost a full pound. So even if your theory is correct, why would the Patriots footballs lose more air naturally than the Colts did?

Average in the playoffs? The guy has 4 Superbowl rings dude. What planet are you on? LOL.

Taking refs to task on the field for bad calls or non calls is not the same as whining about the refs or using them as an excuse for losing a game.

And finally, none of that stuff actually proves that Brady did anything wrong. Brady is under no obligation to turn over his phone, which I'm sure included a lot of personal stuff. And his conversations with locker room guys when the team is being accused of cheating with the balls that he was throwing could have occurred for any number of reasons. C'mon dude, you'd better have a lot more than this spun bologna if you are going to take a game and a million bucks from a starting QB.

I know he's won four Super Bowls, but he won three quick and then went about ten years before he won number four. I'm just saying that during those ten years he didn't play well in most of those games.

I'm not saying he's 100% guilty, but there is enough evidence to suspend him for a game or two. Roethlisberger was never charged and he got suspended for what, 4 games? Granted his alleged crime was 1,000 times worse than Brady but it was proven that he did anything (And no I'm not a Steelers fan. I'm embarrassed to admit I'm a Browns fan).

Sean Payton got suspended for Bountygate and he didn't have anything to do with it.

And if Brady doesn't notice the football why was he so pissed about it being over inflated in the game against the Jets? Why did he go through all the trouble of getting to league to let the QB's doctor the footballs leading up to the week of the game? I thought he didn't have time to notice how a football felt during a game.

There is not a single text, email, voicemail or even any testimony from anyone indicating that he directed, or knew about, the ball deflation. Zero. Nada. There isn't even any evidence that he was in direct contact with anyone responsible before the game started.

So no, there most certainly isn't enough evidence to suspend Tom Brady for this.

How the fuck is "I don't know what he knew or believed and neither does anyone else," ducking the freaking question?

"I don't know" isn't an invalid answer just because you don't like it.

This isn't Brady's fault, but what about the Parriots refusing to let McNally get interviewed after his texts were uncovered? That is refusing to cooperate with an investigation and they should be penalized for that. Looks to me like they are afraid McNally would have talked and told everything.

I suppose it's possible that after the Jets game (the game that the refs inflated to balls to 16 PSI) Brady was pissed and told those two something like "I don't care what you do, but make sure those footballs are at 12.5 PSI before every game, just don't tell me what you do". Sounds a lot like when Barry Bonds and all the other baseball steroid users said "I never KNOWINGLY took steroids". So they felt they could just tell their trainer, "I don't care what you give me, just don't tell me it's steroids and then I can't get in trouble because I didn't know".

And if Brady is so innocent, why isn't he making a bigger deal out of it? He said he needs time to read and digest the report. If he wasn't involved in any way then why does he need to "digest" the report?

Brady's agent said during a radio interview this morning that Brady laughed about the text message conversations and said he knew exactly what those two were talking about and said it was just locker room humor or something like that. Well Brady told investigators that he didn't know who McNally was so why would those texts make sense to Brady?

You're grasping at straws now fg. Opting not to answer questions from the press and availing oneself of the right not to be interrogated is not evidence of a crime.

You're right, it's not. But when you add all the other stuff to it it makes him at the very least look like he was aware of it happening.

Like I said, there's not one thing that makes Brady look guilty or even possibly guilty. But when you add EVERYTHING together, it makes him look more guilty than not guilty.

Regardless of everyone's differing opinions, I think we can all agree there are some unanswered questions and the league did a shitty job handling this investigation.

Pete Rose may have gambled, but he never cheated and he was banned for life. The minimum Tom Brady should get is 8 games, but a full season would be more appropriate. And to continually lie about keeps making it worse for him.

Good point about Pete Rose but keep in mind that while he didn't cheat he still messed with the integrity of the game. If he bet on his team then he would do whatever it takes to win, even if that means leaving a pitcher in too long that could risk him getting hurt. There are times that a manager has to manage with the whole season in mind, not just a particular game.

Allegedly the Patriots are worried that Brady could be suspended 6-8 games. I'm not a Patriots fan, but I don't think you can be suspending people without more evidence. It seems like a witch hunt to me.

I honestly don't believe Brady would do anything to compromise the integrity of the game. Belichick yes, but not Brady. I don't know why Brady doesn't come out right now and tell everything he knows. His reputation is on the line! I don't want to hear that he's discussing it with his legal team.

If Brady is guilty he should be suspended for the whole year. The commissioner had no problem handing out year suspensions to the people on the Saints for Bountygate. I believe deflategate is worse than Bountygate.

Either way it's sad, because Brady could go down as the greatest quarterback ever, but this is a significant taint in his legacy.

Get the fuck out the PSI of a football is worse than bounty gate. Going out of your way to injure someone and take away their livelihood is way more serious. The Wells Report is a fucking joke, they don't actually prove anything definitively and they delivered a totally biased job based on having the conclusion and then trying to tie things together after the fact. They apparently spent a whole day with Brady and put none of it in the report according to Brady's agent. Brady was not allowed to surrender his cellphone because he is a member of the players union and if he did it would set a precedent that everyone should especially no name players and then the NFL will totally fuck over all the players in the future. Also its now where near gambling on the sport in which you play or coach that's totally different and due to financial implications. The report should have some way to prove that the footballs were in fact changed after the weigh ins, the fucking refs who measured at halftime both come up with different PSI's when measuring at the same time and 4 of the colts balls (they only tested 4 for some reason were also below the minimum).

This report does nothing but give anti-patriot/brady people something to try to cling too, and pro patriot/brady no real conclusion. If you are going to spend millions of dollars and months on a report for an investigation which was in no way from an independent firm as the lawfirm who did it has done tons of work for the NFL against players one of the guys resumes who worked on it says he successfully defended the NFL against hundred of lawuits against the NFL by former players. And Exponent the scientific firm that for big tobacco did a report saying that second hand smoke doesn't cause cancer, give me a fucking break. this thing stinks from top to bottom. Wells knows who is buttering his bread and delivered as much as he could to give them the report they wanted, which is shame because they should have used a investigation team with no bias. But this is the NFL and they have proven themselves inept at every turn for the last few years. If he gave the order to doctor footballs after the refs check them which they never say they just give out of context text messages where its not clear when they are to allegedly bring the football back to 12.5 PSI it never once in the whole report says Brady requested less than the minimum and that the Refs in the past had actually over inflated balls to 16 psi. This report a fucking joke and just a way to keep people talking during the slow months. if Brady knowingly broke the rules then prove it and fine him the $25k like the penalty says. We are talking about 1 mm of compression which you can't feel and gives no real advantage turning into the most ridiculous overblown controversy ever. Shit Minnesota and Tampa Bay or someone was caught putting balls in front of a heater during a game illegally (why it's illegal is stupid they have changed the game so teams score more so who give a fuck, you can't even bump a receiver anymore) and nothing happened.