The Fear of Setting Expectations

I don't think I've ever had that happen. But then I tend to avoid the dancers with the big come-on, that's not the type of girl that I like. I think for the most part I've been pleasantly surprised at how much a girl who I didn't know put into a dance more often than I've been disappointed. But remember, I don't do girls very often who I don't know. I usually find a girl I like and stick with her. I find that the better I know the girl the more I enjoy the dance. I also think you usually get more mileage from someone you know well. For example, I've been seeing this girl for about 7 months now and she recently started kissing me on the lips. I'd be willing to bet that she doesn't do that with any other customers.

I don't have any problem with a guy that asks, I just don't. That doesn't mean I won't stop after one dance if I don't feel like I'm enjoying myself. It just means I don't need contact to enjoy myself. Last night I did a 60 minute VIP with a fav of mine who didn't even get naked until we where 45 minutes into it. We obviosly all look for different things in our SC endevours. I'm curious about one thing; How many times have you guys been burnt by dancers who promised a certain amount of contact and didin't deliver? What did you do?

Since my situation is probably different....meaning that I have limited time and money to go to Strip Clubs...I want to get the most out of my visit.

Some of you have said "find one particular girl and stick with her"....well I can't really do that...I travel extensively and by the time I get back to a particular club, the dancer is usually not working that night or has left.

As for the Subtle hints...Yes and No...some of the examples weren't subtle...and even I would make the jump for those examples. But I understand what you mean....but even that has been a hit or miss for me over the years. And I'll tell on myself here....I just recently had a bad experience because I focused on suggestive conversation.

Overal - "While being a gentleman"....I find it much more successful to: 1) establish club rules, 2) establish dancers rules, 3) establish a slight rapport, 4) Define my dollar limits, 5) Probe for "bending the rules" 6) Negotiate # of dances -if possible 7) establish my expectations.

I'm not going to elude myself that any woman working is going to be my friend given the # of repeat visits....so the return customer benefit is "out" for me. So, it has to be a pure business transaction.

I have the money "she wants" and She has the service "I want"....if she's willing to break with normal Dancer conduct and make a deal.....Usually....65% of the time we both end up happy. It's the other 35% that have the take it or leave it mentality that go off in a Huff...."of course no deal was struck"

The women in these places don't give a damn about us...they care about our money. So why not make the best of it? If you're willing to haggle over a product that costs you a lot of money....Well what makes a dancer any different. She's there to provide a service for you... And she's not going to give you your money back if you're unhappy with that service....unlike a real business transaction.

Men tend to forget that these women are not here to be our girlfriends, wives, lovers....so other than following the "Golden Rule of - Treating people like we would expect them to treat us." Normal male/female courting rituals need to stay at the door.....else it will be used against you.

Some Dancer's call that being an Asshole...other's have told me that they apprieciated my no "BS" approach. Frankly...I like the "Deer in the Headlights" look from a Dancer.

I agree that it's not the only criteria, Yoda. I've bought lots of dances from girls who I knew were low contact, in fact I was a regular for awhile with a low contact girl who I really liked. But it's still nice to have some idea what you're getting in advance. I remember one time getting an air dance in a place that was known for high contact and I was disappointed. I kind of liked the girl but not enough to continue. I think if a girl is going to do significantly less than the norm for her club she should tell you in advance. Although in this particular case this girl was so new that I doubt if she had any idea what the other girls were doing. That's the club's fault, clubs should provide a little training for new dancers but few do.

I don't ask beacuse contact levels are not the only thing that infuences my decision. If a woman approaches and says "wanna dance" it's an immediate no from me. If I'm attracted to a lady I see onstage I will go over and tip her. If she comes over to me, sits down and chats for a few minutes and I feel a spark, I will buy a dance. If I enjoy the dance I will buy another. To each his own I guess.

What keeps you from asking for what you want? Opinions or Insight?

Actually, bouncers.

Seriously, it is generally not necessary to be so direct about it. Most dancers drop fairly subtle (or unsubtle) hints. For example, in my own experience:

*The dancer who told me, as part of our pre-dance conversation, that she lived with a Houston Police Officer. Whether or not that was true (and I quite seriously doubt it), she was signalling that, if I got a dance from her, much below-the-belt merriment would NOT follow;

*The dancer who asked if I wanted to go into VIP with her, and, with no prompting from me, explained that, "It's basically like dry sex." She was signalling that, if I got a dance from her, much below-the-belt merriment WOULD (and did) follow.):

*The dancer who approached me while I was sitting at the tiprail and, while we were sitting there, took off my tie, unbuttoned my shirt halfway to the waist, and had unhooked my belt when I hustled her into VIP. A blind, deaf man with an IQ of 45 could tell what she was signalling.

So, you just have to be alert to these subtle non-verbal cues

By the way, I agree entirely with something that a poster above said: The princess-types who just sit there at the table with you, making no conversation, just waiting for a clock to run down until you buy a dance to relieve the monotony....pure air..

When I'm in a new club I play dumb, like I've never had private dance before, and I get her to explain it to me. That can be a very amusing discussion. Also a good way to find out if the girl is going to try to con you.

I agree, I rarely buy a dance unless we've had a chance to talk first, but sometimes when a place is crowded that's just not possible. Or if she's a real popular girl and has some regulars there the only shot you get is to go for the dance right away. And you're right, it's hit or miss. Just one more reason I try to find a girl I really like and stick with her.

One time I met a girl in a club I'd never visited before and we hit it off for a little while but she had to leave because her shift was ending and she was working a later shift at another club about an hour away. I told her I'd meet her there. When I did she was so surprised that she dumped a customer she was with and immediately was all over me. That was a special night. That one was a hit.

I don't consider it ungentlemenly to ask a few questions before agreeing to a dance. I always try to act like a gentlemen and treat dancers with respect, providing of course that they do the same for me.

I almost always sit and talk with a girl for a while before even thinking about any private dances. If I'm with a girl for the first time and I like her, I will then buy one lap dance and see how it goes. If I'm satisfied with it, then I'll think about a private room or whatever the club has. I never spring for that up front.

Sometimes you have to pay for a lap dance or private room up front and that's OK. But I never tip the girl up front and if she insists on one I find another girl. "The bigger the tip the better the dance" is a line thats a sure sign that you're being hustled and sends me heading for the door.

Baddy: My experiences have been different than yours in some regard.

Your comment about the Dancer basically blowing smoke up your ass to get a dance....well, I can usually tell....at least now. The ones that sound like a cheesy car salesman....well those I can eliminate right away. On the opposite spectrum....is the "mouse"...the type who is either new or has no business being in the club. They're shy, talk very little, and exude very little self esteem. Both are usually guaranteed to "Air Dance" you.

The Clubs that I've seen that take money up front are the ones that take a piece of the Dancer's action....which usually leaves no room for bargaining for all "Two for Ones". They also usually have a closed off backroom which in not visible to patrons to perform Lapdances....this really sucks for Recon purposes.

My technique if I'm interested is to act skeptical... Toss them if I get canned answers to my questions or if they're to timid. If I can't build a conversational connection within the first few minutes that's usually a sign that....she's just there to take money.

The hard part, is to talk about sexual contact without directly talking about it. A sure way to piss a woman off...talk about sex. The "Rules" question is a starting point...Like in any negoiation...the first one to speak usually loses. If I state that I'm prepared to spend "X" amount of money for multiply dances...then she realizes I'm serious. And then it really begins.

But I see that most men just open up their pockets like the Dancer has Keys to the Bank.

StripShopper, I agree that is is good to try and "feel out" a girl by asking her what she will do/how agressive she will be, etc. But, I have tried this a lot (when I am in the right mindset) when talking to a dancer I have never gotton a private with before, and found that a lot of strippers will tell me whatever I want to hear to get my money in the private area. There really isn't a whole lot you can do about it... say she promised extras, then you go and get a normal dance with her... you can't exactly go bitch to the manager that you didn't get any extras.

Obviously I'm sure some girls will be straightforward about it, but I haven't had much luck asking. On a semi-related topic, do most the clubs in your area have you pay before or after a private? Have you ever refused to pay for a shitty one? My rule used to be if a girl asks up front, it is going to be crappy so don't bother, but lately it seems all girls ask unless you are a regular do you have to just take the plunge.

Lexus300: So in one of your recent reviews...Just how did you go about asking for that CBJ that you talk about??? Did you just grab the dancer's head and shove it in your Lap???? Or did you just imagine that you her getting Head, especially since you're such a gentleman.

Or are you of a "PL" who drops a Grand to get service in a Club...Mister LEXUS 300

Don't throw stones if you live in a glass house!!

The Question was intended to invoke thought and start a discussion on handling business discussions with your intended Dancer. Especially since most men make the dancer's job to easy...like sheep to the slaughter.

Because 90% of us-I hope -are gentemen.

FONDL: "Exactly" what I mean....

So, why do so few actually ask questions before they buy?

Actually I sometimes do the opposite. If a girl comes up and asks me "wanna dance?" and I'm semi-interested, I'll usually say "depends, what are your rules?" That sort of accomplishes the same thing. And I don't worry about pissing a girl off unless she's someone I know and like, some of them are pissed off all the time because they hate their jobs. Customers have a right to know in advance what they're going to get for their money and a right to say "no" if it's not what they're looking for, just like in any other transaction. Would you go to a restaurant where you didn't have any control over what they were going to serve you?