tuscl

OT: What do you think about the executive action on immigration?

Friday, November 21, 2014 8:23 AM
This is not completely OT for me since I was seeing a dancer last yr whose father was undocumented. When you're up close to people who are affected, you get a different perspective. This is a pretty big deal since it affects 4 or 5 million people. The main part of the executive action prevents immigrants from being deported if they have children who are either citizens or have green cards. It's not a path to citizenship; it just prevents deportation in certain cases. Immigration reform is complicated and I see both sides: Our tax dollars (especially health care, Medicaid, etc) should only go to those paying taxes. Sometimes illegal immigration takes jobs away from Americans and depresses wages. We still need to strengthen our borders. But what Obama did was both practical and compassionate. These people are already here and it's fucking barbaric to rip parents away from their children. Ted Cruz is being a typical asshat and accusing Obama of being a tyrant. Hope he blows a fuse and has an aneurysm. I know this is a conservative board, but wondering what you think?

45 comments

  • SlickSpic
    •
    10 years ago
    Interesting thing that I recently learned about immigrants in California receiving gov't assistance. It seems that more Asians(Vietnamese, SE Asians) and Middle Easterners are on welfare than other ethnicities.
  • JamesSD
    •
    10 years ago
    I don't really care. I can see pros and cons. I'm 95% sure the woman who cleans my house isn't documented. This does make immigration a big 2016 prez election issue. It's gonna be tricky for Republicans whose base and power brokers seriously disagree. The elites want cheap labor, poor whites want protectionist policies.
  • crazyjoe
    •
    10 years ago
    What is an asshat?
  • rockstar666
    •
    10 years ago
    Immigrants pick fruit for less money than citizens are willing to work for which keeps prices down. If we deport them, apples will be $2 each. OTOH, if they have no fear of deportation they'll demand a minimum wage. So W had it right: just ignore the issue and hope it goes away. Having an illegal workforce working cheaply is the best policy.
  • crazyjoe
    •
    10 years ago
    By getting discounted labor we send all our money to other countries.
  • GACA
    •
    10 years ago
    Growing up in Southern CA the biggest issue was a social one. OK so you snuck across got in to a better way of life. So why the fck are you not taking care of your gang banging ass delinquent kids. You need to stick a foot up their ass. Tell them of the horror of the homeland. Teach them to appreciate the life you darn near died to give them, and inspire them to be contributing members of society. But mostly put a foot up their ass when they misbehave. Canadians sneak in all the time. Asians sneaking in all the fckn time. But they shut up once they are here and try to make the most of the opportunity. In LA the worst assimilated (Armenian, Russians, Persians and Latinos - Chinese are slowly becoming a pain in the ass too with the bad driving) is what gets people fed up with illegal immigration. You came here because it's better, so stop trying to recreate here what didn't work where you came from. My grandma is from Mexico, she married my American grandpa...she really can't stand illegals she feels like they are all cheaters. Guess she feels everyone should suffer through a bad marriage to earn the citizenship :) j/k but she does feel that when you do it wrong you don't appreciate it as much.
  • GACA
    •
    10 years ago
    Oh, and I'm a SoCal Democrat speaking up. I love giving people a real opportunity to succeed. But I don't think this bill does that, just like welfare (corporate, social, or otherwise) this is going to encourage very bad behavior. Rewarding rule breakers is never good for any society. I just don't get why we don't just Annex Mexico already. There's some hot property and lots of under utilized natural resources.
  • JohnSmith69
    •
    10 years ago
    Why did we just elect a new congress if the President gets to make the laws?
  • georgmicrodong
    •
    10 years ago
    If somebody wants to come in and work and OT taxes, I don't mind. If they want to work and not pay taxes, I don't mind. If they want to draw benefits, they need to be a citizen.
  • Josh43
    •
    10 years ago
    ^^^^ JS, Reagan and Bush Sr. both used executive action to help immigrants. Remember that what Obama executive action prevents deportation temporarily. Only congress can find a path toward citizenship. The GOP can try to sue Obama - but it's not going to work. GACA - Kind of a rambling, racist, vibe there. Do you really want to blame children who were brought here by their parents?
  • rockstar666
    •
    10 years ago
    The senate has passed immigration reform. The house refuses to put it to a vote because the GOP will not vote on any bill that requires democratic support to pass. So when congress whines about Obama, they're being hypocrites because they refuse to do anything about the issue at all.
  • londonguy
    •
    10 years ago
    I obviously can't comment on it from your perspective. What I do find frustrating is the fact that 99.9% of British people (myself included) find it impossible to live and work in the U.S. If you are a Brit the only way you can get in is if you are famous. filthy rich or have a special skill like being a renowned surgeon etc. I could perfectly understand any ill feeling towards immigrants that see the country they wish to live in as a free ticket and/or an easier life where somebody else picks up the bill. We have it here with EE and from further beyond, they want to 'escape persecution blah blah blah' but always seem to want to get to Britain, the country furthest away from their homeland that just happens to have the most generous social security payments in Europe.
  • GACA
    •
    10 years ago
    @Josh43 I clearly wasn't blaming the children, but the parents of those children. The children didn't make the choice. My point is people who immigrate need to be better guest in the country they are trying to be citizens in eventually. And I have like the ultimate race card so at best my ranting was just xenophobic.
  • GACA
    •
    10 years ago
    Y perdoname mi gente, pero ustedes que viven in la ciudad conocen bien que los niños ahoy no tiene ni papa de respeto, y es la culpa de sus padres. No puedo aguantar la gente mal criados. Claro No es asì en la bien familia. #RealTalk
  • MrDeuce
    •
    10 years ago
    Emperor Obama does not have the right to legislate on immigration just because Congress has refused to. In fact, its refusal *is* a legislative choice which he should honor -- by staying out of the matter! If Congress wants to pass immigration reform, it will. The fact that Reagan and Bush I issued similar (though much less drastic) executive orders does not excuse Obama's overreach -- I didn't support them in their power grabs, either. Josh43, calling GACAclub's comment "racist" is an abuse of that term. Words have meanings; his mild xenophobia is far removed from racism. The racism card is overplayed these days, as are the sexism and homophobia cards.
  • Clubber
    •
    10 years ago
    FUCK PC! "undocumented" my ass, they are FUCKING ILLEGAL!!! As for obama, doing illegal things is right up his ally. No surprise there. BTW, R&B "modified/clarified" EXISTING law!
  • mikeya02
    •
    10 years ago
    @ Clubber....well said...You should look at my thread about Jayne Mansfield to take your mind off this crap
  • shadowcat
    •
    10 years ago
    Ebola, Aids & Obama. Thanks Africa.
  • Josh43
    •
    10 years ago
    "Josh43, calling GACAclub's comment "racist" is an abuse of that term. Words have meanings; his mild xenophobia is far removed from racism. -------------------------------------------------------------- Agreed. I misread one of GACA's replies.
  • JamesSD
    •
    10 years ago
    Basic civics: legislative branch writes laws. Executive branch enforces. Judicial decides on constitutionality. The drug war is an example of where different administrations have taken different approaches to utilizing limited resources to effectively enforce laws. To use a strip club analogy, there can be no touch rules in an area, but if law enforcement doesn't enforce the rules, it is de facto decriminalized. Congress does have the power to pass additional laws that force the president's hand. But since you need 60 votes to get anything through the Senate these days, the odds of that happening are slim.
  • Josh43
    •
    10 years ago
    "FUCK PC! "undocumented" my ass, they are FUCKING ILLEGAL!!!" ---------------------------------------------------------- Better hope that the GOP is smart enough to keep that shit to themselves. Otherwise, with the growing Latino vote, you'll never win the White House again. ....and speaking of PC, Clubber, if the strippers find find out that you club baby seals, you'll be celibate for the rest of your sorry life ;)
  • motorhead
    •
    10 years ago
    Ban all EO's
  • GACA
    •
    10 years ago
    Better hope that the GOP is smart enough to keep that shit to themselves. Otherwise, with the growing Latino vote, you'll never win the White House again ------------------------------------------------------------------ The GOP is failing on all sorts of fronts. Pandering to the religious right is one. If they want to win the house again, illegal immigration is a great place to start. After the Million Immigrant Child March to the borders these last years, even American Latinos (middle class if course) want something done, it was disrespectful to our laws. It's not a right to be able to enter the United States unless you are born here. And Obama the Dems are losing the aging millineal vote, which got them the house these last two elections (yes guilty as charged, but who didn't want to see a Black President, that's still sorta awesome actually) There ground the GOP can make up, dump the Tea-Baggers, lay off the Jesus speak, be moderate moderate moderate, and pander to women and Millineals, as well as the old rich white gaurd. And you might not need the Hispanic vote.
  • mikeya02
    •
    10 years ago
    I want Christmas to be called by it's proper name, not a Winter Holiday. And Christmas trees not called Winter Festival Trees or whatever, Notice that there are not enough Americans living abroad to interfere with other countries religious holidays? OTOH, millions want to leave their country to come here, and expect everything to be "PC". Fuck that
  • Clubber
    •
    10 years ago
    Black president my ass! He is more white than black! Hell, I am even a small percentage black, and I have DNA testing proof! Genealogy, you know. I was checking if I was 1/8 Indian. Wasn't confirmed, or I'd have a casino on my back 40! Seems I struck a "racist" vein! :)
  • ujay
    •
    10 years ago
    This board is a liberal board. The guys here that support the GOP are engaging in a hobby that would be banned in a tea party administration. As far as the tea party is concerned, there should be no strip clubs, escorts....because these are morally bad and should be banned. President Obama made the right decision. Bad business hire cheap labor, pay under the table, and avoid paying taxes. This makes the good business less competitive. This practice deprives the immigrants of their human value. To ignore the problem will not make it go away; instead it creates an underbelly of the poor that is destabilizing for society.
  • DandyDan
    •
    10 years ago
    Republicans are the most self contradictory people out there. They pay wage rates so low only illegals would ever want them, but then they want to kick the illegals out. As far as I'm concerned, the Republicans are getting what they deserve.
  • Clubber
    •
    10 years ago
    I won't waste my time trying to change a liberal mind. First they would have to have one. The guys here that support socialists/marxists/communists are engaging in a life that would be banned in a socialist/marxist/communist administration. As far as the socialists/marxists/communists are concerned, there should be no freedom, choice....because they are to stupid to know what's good for themselves.
  • Dougster
    •
    10 years ago
    I think it was a balanced, moderate decision. I'm inclined to agree with gmd that the country needs more people so more immigration sounds good to me. Only minor thing I disagree with what he said it is that since non-citizens who are here on other visas have to pay all the US taxes, they should also be entitled to benefits. I can see scaling them, however, based on how long the person paid taxes and, to some degree, how much they paid. Some programs already have that builtin, however.
  • Dougster
    •
    10 years ago
    ujay: "This board is a liberal board" Dah fuck? "This" board liberal? You must be thinking of another "this" board.
  • Josh43
    •
    10 years ago
    "I won't waste my time trying to change a liberal mind. First they would have to have one." --------------------------------------------- Clubbers nuanced solution to the immigration problem: (1) Put all immigrants and baby seals on a boat. (2) Club them into submission. (3) Ship said boat off to China.
  • Lone_Wolf
    •
    10 years ago
    For me, this isn't about immigration but more about a president overstepping his authority. Given the scope of the issue, this should have been dealt with in congress. A president should not have the authority to make such a huge decision unilaterally.
  • Clubber
    •
    10 years ago
    Lone, He doesn't.
  • Clubber
    •
    10 years ago
    The question is, what to do. You know that holder will do zip point zero, The new AG, the same. Impeach? Sure the House can impeach and when it gets to the senate, it goes into harry's "we will do zip point zero" file. After the new Congress is sworn in, then something might be done.
  • Clubber
    •
    10 years ago
    DD, Wages, not artificially set, will set it's their own level. It is then up to the individual where they fit in the wage spectrum. It's really that simple. If I didn't have the skills I have acquired over time, I too, would be flipping burgers as an unskilled low wage worker.
  • GACA
    •
    10 years ago
    Clubber By continuing to bring in illegal fruit pickers, then yes the wage is being manipulated in a way the keeps them artificially low. And I get it keeps food prices down but DD is making a great point, the cost of profits are illegal immigrants, and it a contradiction to want profits but no illegals.
  • Mate27
    •
    10 years ago
    Fuck her in the pussy.
  • Clubber
    •
    10 years ago
    GAC, Bringing in "illegal fruit pickers" is not artificially setting wages, it is, as you stated, manipulating them. Wage laws are artificially setting wages.
  • goonster
    •
    10 years ago
    It's a complicated issue, however the new policy is practical and reflects some harsh realities.
  • GACA
    •
    10 years ago
    Former Mexican President Vicente Fox put it eloquently. Nobody notices when Canadians immigrate because they act like Americas. Honestly, it is more than just a financial burden, it's the social/cultural burden that's the biggest issue. Nobody is crying about the corporate welfare which we spend on exponentially more
  • Clubber
    •
    10 years ago
    "Practical"? I suppose if say, I decide it is "practical" to rob, rape, ravage, and plunder, that OK as well? "Complicated"? Article 1, Section 8: The Congress shall have power to... Clause 4: establish a uniform rule of naturalization... Doesn't at all seem complicated!!!
  • goonster
    •
    10 years ago
    @clubber, uh huh, except that congress hasn't been doing shit about it for a very long time which why we are in the state we are currently in. It's complicated because now we have people who aren't here legally who have children who are natural born citizens of the U.S. it's easy to argue that those kids should not be citizens except that the only reason why they are is because congress has been doing nothing about it, thus leading to the catch 22 of the matter.
  • GACA
    •
    10 years ago
    @Goonster. Congress absolutely has been doing shit about it for a very long time. Bolstering the Democrats votes. Duh.
  • Clubber
    •
    10 years ago
    goonster, Inaction by a Congress does NOT make his action legal Perhaps they learned something after the democrats lied to Reagan about immigration. BTW, there IS a policy and it served us well for years, but if not enforced, THAT gets us to where we are. Just little facts that get in the way. We had the "Born in the USA" (Bruce comes to mind) here before. Again, the Constitution gets in the way of that point. Don't like the Constitution? Well guess what, it even contains a way to change it to ones liking. Been done before, you know.
  • Clubber
    •
    10 years ago
    As an aside, Congress was a part time job. But the federal government has been inflated to the behemoth it is today. States had control of themselves in most all government roles. If you've never read, and all indications are that you haven't, take some time and read the Federalist Papers. All the thinking that went into writing the greatest government document of all time is explained.
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