OTC confusion

40 comments

• rrbill

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  13 years ago

  Frailty, thy name is woman!
• georgmicrodong

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  13 years ago

  So, have you been paying her for sex ITC, or just dances and VIPs? Were you intending for this to be a sex hookup? Was that clear? If you made it clear up front that no money was involved, it could have been a simple brush off and back to the spenders; some girls assume that you don't want to hear "no" no matter what you say. On the other hand, she might have fully intended to be there, and something urgent came up. Between those two explanations are an infinite variety. I think you're wasting your time asking here, though. Ask *her* when you see her again. Do it in a non-confrontational way, reemphasizing that a refusal is acceptable, and that she's really not interested, you'd rather hear that than a be left hanging. If she doesn't already have it, give her your Google Voice number (you aren't giving out your real number, are you?) and suggest she text you when she's ready, otherwise you won't bring it up again.
• Sowhatt

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  13 years ago

  GMD: Just dances and VIP, anything beyond that that's ever happened has been her initiative and no extra money was given. I thought I was pretty clear, but it could've been muddled, she's eastern european. I think you're right though, next time I see her I'll definitely make things very clear: No is a perfectly acceptable answer, but if the answer is yes I expect her to follow through, there's plenty of other dancers that I can develop relationships with. (And yes, google voice, god bless that shit)
• steve_ny

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  13 years ago

  My little experience tells me that they say we are not there yet or make appointments and don't show off because they may not be OTC girls and are just trying to stretch it out as long as possible to make as much cash as possible until you bail. I know a few that never do anything in or out of the club but the texting and flirting and maybe after we know each other better will keep a guy spending VIP for a few months. THey are just worried about making money that shift sometimes so they play the role and will deal with the explaination next time you show up.
• lopaw

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  13 years ago

  gmd summed it up beautifully.
• Sowhatt

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  13 years ago

  Steve: Yeah but that's why I specifically say that a no is ok and wont affect our club time or spending. I guess she might just not believe me.
• rickdugan

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  13 years ago

  She's playing you dude and it is classic. She's stringing it out for as long as she can. Why should she give a shit if you are angry? After all, you are looking for free sex. She figures that she will string you along, for whatever she can get ITC, for as long as she can and then, when you finally wise up, then so be it. She has no interest in fucking you OTC for free and may not even have an interest in p4p. You are making tuition payments ITC. Learn from this. If you want to fuck a hot young stripper OTC, then your best bet is to make it a monetary arrangement. Make her less fat ITC and let the OTC payout be the carrot. And btw, don't try to set the limits on what we comment on if you want the straight dope. You came here for advice, which you obviously need badly, so simply state your case and let those who know better help you with the right path. Anyway, there it is.
• shadowcat

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  13 years ago

  I couldn't have said it better than rickdugan just did.
• Sowhatt

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  13 years ago

  You know rick, you're totally right. I think I may have just added a tally mark on my own personal PL scorecard, and now I'm going to erase it. Thanks for the tough love. Now onto the solution. I think I'll start branching out a bit (I'm not cutting her off ITC, the value there for what I get is too good) and sampling some of the other local wares instead of treating her like an exclusive ATF. We're talking about Dallas here, so not like there's a dearth of opportunities.
• steve_ny

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  13 years ago

  Sowhatt. I understand, my experience with eastern Europeans is they will bluff you as long as they can. Most are in relationships or married and will not do sex OTC. If they are single, they are more likely to do OTC if they see a potential relationship. And I think their past experience has taught them that if you are looking OTC, you will find it from someone else and then they lose ITC.
• mjx01

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  13 years ago

  "So ... why she would risk angering me and losing my considerable contribution to her bottom line ITC. Why not just say no and not risk losing me as a custy?" Dude, it just doesn't work that way. I spent 5+ years putting up with the exact same BS from xATF, and nothing ever materialized OTC. Asked her mutiple times to level with me if we were strictly business and never gave me a straght answer. When you are in the club she's only selling you a fantasy. In this case the fantasy of going home with you. By default she assume the fantasy ends for you when you leave the club. Repeat fantasy time when you return and resell same fantasy of taking home a hottie. If she says no to you ITC, then there is no future potential to resell you the same fantasy and she figures she loses ITC revenue. I think Stelletto called it selling a box of air. Your box of air is the fantasy of her going home with you. If your not going to pay OTC or she just doesn't want to put out then all you're ever going to get is the same f-in box of air over and over again. Since you made it clear that you were not going to p4p OTC, then why the f*ck is she going to see you OTC? Sorry if my ramblings don't make sense. She doesn't want to date you. She just keep selling you the same fantasy of a hook up.
• rickdugan

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  13 years ago

  LOL So. You are in Dallas and you can't arrange decent OTC p4p? You obviously need to spend more time at the clubs on Harry Hines Blvd. ;) Or even Composite Drive for that matter.
• Sowhatt

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  13 years ago

  I'm not currently comfortable with p4p. And I was apparently buying hook line and sinker a bunch of SS that it was going to happen OTC just cause of how awesome I am. Like I said, a PL moment that won't happen again.
• smokeshopjoe

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  13 years ago

  Never believe your own bullshit and certainly dont believe theirs! Did you just use the work dearth? Coming correct on us here.
• luckyone

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  13 years ago

  She wants you to keep believing in "the dream" and she'll always have an excuse for why she didn't show or can't make it. You want to believe so you'll buy it. If she really wants to just hang out, she'll show. If not, she's just "not that into you."
• Stiletto25

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  13 years ago

  There's really nothing for me to add. Everyone else summed it up quite nicely.
• mmdv26

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  13 years ago

  So you're looking for a traditional girlfriend in a strip club??...WTF Yes, you are missing something: you aren't paying enough...to get FS OTC...or any OTC for that matter. The girls in the club are there because they want money - they are doing this for a living and to get high. They are not interested in you for very long if you don't give them money. So, unless you can offer them free drugs or back stage passes to Dustin Beaver, or just plain ol' money, you won't be getting anywhere with them.
• SuperDude

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  13 years ago

  Or she does OTC, but got a better offer and stood you up.
• bang69

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  13 years ago

  I'm with stiletto on this one
• jackslash

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  13 years ago

  What rickdugan said.
• jackslash

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  13 years ago

  What rickdugan said.
• motorhead

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  13 years ago

  II stopped reading after I read "I'm NOT paying..." This isn't the eHarmony website
• SammyGold

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  13 years ago

  Your penance is to write 100 times - "It's about the money, stupid." If you want a free hookup or to make a connection, go to a singles bar. Your chances of scoring with the tactics that you're using are WAY better.
• steve229

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  13 years ago

  Lloyd: What do you think the chances are of a guy like you and a girl like me... ending up together? Mary: Well, Lloyd, that's difficult to say. I mean, we don't really... Lloyd: Hit me with it! Just give it to me straight! I came a long way just to see you, Mary. The least you can do is level with me. What are my chances? Mary: Not good. Lloyd: You mean, not good like one out of a hundred? Mary: I'd say more like one out of a million. [pause] Lloyd: So you're telling me there's a chance... *YEAH!*
• CTQWERTY

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  13 years ago

  Lloyd, probably a better chance of being struck by lightning (lol)!
• Rod8432

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  13 years ago

  Two comments: 1) I'm with the others on this - you ARE missing something. We've all entertained "dating" a stripper, and I'm no exception. There's something about nuzzling with a hot naked girl that does a beeline to our masculine desire to covet. We want that connection to be ongoing, but alas, it truly is a fantasy - albeit one we can enjoy to the max ITC and if P4P, OTC. I'd suggest compartmentalizing the experience for what it is, and enjoy the sex/connection on its own time-limited and dollar-fueled merits. 2) Do tell - what's a "semi-SD?" I didn't see "SD" in the Glossary.
• steve229

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  13 years ago

  SD = Sugar Daddy Semi-SD, aka NutraSweet Daddy = someone who pretends to be a wealthy SD, tries to get naive Sugar Babies to sleep with him for dinner & a movie and vague promises. Usually only works with fuglies.
• joesparty

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  13 years ago

  Not too much more to add, except that in my experience, the girls who give up free OTC are *extremely* rare. Most dancers don't go to work looking for a guy to date. Hell, I'd guess most don't go to work looking for NSA fun. They're there to make money. And if you do find a willing partner for your free OTC activities, do not expect it to last long. My experience says either the emotions will make it too complicated to maintain a healthy distance, or she'll realize she's missing out on the money and find someone else, or both. But if you can pull it off long term, good luck and best wishes.
• bluemonday

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  13 years ago

  Had a similar experiance with my ATF. Spent almost all of my week on a recent trip, with her in in the club and dated OTC most nights, some great times, but just could not get any real 'action' free. Yeah of course it is what we want, to not pay so it is 'real'. But in the end (on my last day when it was too late) she says next time i'm in town, if i pay $400 and 'spoil' her, then she would finish in the club early, come to my room, 'relax' for a few hours then we can still enjoy go out later. Being 'spoiled' is just her 'mentality'. Next time, i gonna just pay! Am sure we are real 'friends', have been for a good while now and we still speak most weeks even though am from far away from where she works, but no matter how much 'friends' we are, i'm always gonna be paying one way or another for her even though i know she does actually like me. Basically, just accept, if you want to enjoy, just pay and enjoy ... still prob works out best in the long run than spending loads ITC, or fooling yourself you can have a real relationship ... just enjoy what you got ? And hey let's be honest, a real GF or wife is soon gonna cost you more than $400 too !!!!
• Doc_Holliday

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  13 years ago

  Sowhat, if you want p4p i'd suggesy ECCIE. It's a Dallas based p4p site with over 200 providers, most are reviewed and vetted. You'll need to get verified through p411 or some other service or you can build a report with a provider and trust her with your info. DO NOT go directly to backpage, you will get burned.
• Doc_Holliday

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  13 years ago

  As far as non-p4p, treat them like a girl at a bar, but a working girl - bartender, waitress, beer/shot girl, etc. not a custy. Buy lap dances off them like it were a bottle of Lone Star! During the lap dance, do whatever you want, you're paying for it, but when it's over switch back to reality and treat her like the employee she is (not like an ass all haughty!, but friendly and business like -- this is a cute vendor at work you want to take out!) have something to do afterwards, an after party, friends over for drinks, etc. this works for me. Be fun, be casual, be yourself. If it doesn't work, be polite and say it would be great if she could but understand if she can't. If she no-shows, let it go. Either way, move on. I have never had success after two attempts. Even though, I am still pursuing one after months, but she's never bullshitted about being interested in me, which makes her honest, and if she gives in, I'll let you know. But as a good, and importantly, cheap! rule, don't waste your time after a couple visits if she's not interested enough to casually hang out. Most strippers are party girls so give her something fun to do no other customer can offer.
• Doc_Holliday

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  13 years ago

  And to repeat what joe said, these are most likely party gorls, don't expect a long term relationship, Hell! Most who *do* hook up with you, you wouldn't want around for long anyway! You start discovering, money, drug, men problems and you start looking for the door! The good ones will resist and end up costing you $1000s on nothing. Also go for the rookies, as it's been said, whether she does or not, a vet will know she can make money fucking and will not give it away unless you're really fucking special! I think that's all I got.
• Doc_Holliday

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  13 years ago

  *party girls - as in, young, freely expressing thier sexuality, and not wanting to be tied down The other type is the low self-esteem girls that may quickly get attached. I've had both. The third type are the professionals that won't fuck around some of these require money, some require a miracle
• JuiceBox69

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  13 years ago

  What rick said !
• gatorfan

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  13 years ago

  What part of lying thieving whore wasn't clear
• Sowhatt

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  13 years ago

  I know I know I know! Oh please dear TUSCL lords and ladies, forgive me my sin of PL'ness. It won't happen again! (Maybe) At least not with this girl. But some good came of this. Eyes opened, ideas planted, intentions bolstered.
• bossproducer

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  13 years ago

  Wow great advice on this thread. Blue Monday, I am in the exact same type of situation. I have never payed for sex with my current OTC favorite. She never asks for money during or after a OTC date. She describes our relationship as "great friends" who fool around once in a while. The SS has almost left or conversations and I truly believe we are good friends. Of course I have no doubts that if I stopped paying for her cellphone, stopped "loaning" her $400 a month, our 7-8 OTC sessions per month would end. Strictly comparing to market rates this is an pretty good deal for me. I think I have become a dependable "nutrasweet" daddy to her. I could see us being friends if I stopped semi supporting her but the OTC fs would definitely end
• chukko

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  13 years ago

  Keep track of her menstraul cycle and ask her again when she's ovulating. There's free websites out there for it. lol
• chukko

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  13 years ago

  Really? You want free sex from a stripper? Just read more of what goes on-on this site. I've never done OTC, but I'd imagine that success rates go up as the dollar amount goes up. You have better chances of getting laid by a girl you met in the frozen food aile at the grocery store. Just go to a club. I've also been strung along before by women and I can tell you that it's all part of they're game. If you go back to the club looking for answers then you put her in a position of power, because she has the answer and you have the question. She has the key that will affect your next move. She'll probably feed you an answer about how something came up but let's reschedule. Thus, you buy more dances. You may have fed her the line that it won't affect ITC action, but in her mind she has already weighed that you are looking for more and will most likely move on if you don't find what you are looking for with her (like the behavior of most customers). Since she is not going to put out for free, she'll just string you out as long as she can until you get a clue. Like I said. I have never had OTC before, but reviews show that prices might go down after you've developed a paid OTC relationship.
• mmdv26

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  13 years ago

  The most difficult thing with OTC is all the BS that goes on before you are naked in bed.