OTC confusion
Sowhatt
First of all to preface: I am NOT paying for anything. I'm more than happy to pay for whatever happens ITC (legitimately), and don't consider myself a PL (yet). So please, no comments along the lines of "you're just not paying enough".
Whenever I bring it up with a girls that I am a semi regular with or new girls I think the connection is strong enough for it even to be a possibility, I let that fact be known. As I'm building these relationships, most of the time the response is something along the lines of "I don't think we're quite there yet sweety" or something like that, and I don't pursue further.
Recently I had a dancer (possible future ATF material) respond enthusiastically to it and flat out say yes. Time and place was arranged, good night kisses exchanged, and I left the club an excited man around 1. The club closes at 2 so I was expecting her around 3. She never showed, as I'm sure you all could guess.
This is where my confusion comes into play. Why say yes and not show? I was very clear no money was involved, but that it might be a step towards a semi-SD relationship in the future. I was also very clear that a "no" was a perfectly acceptable answer and that it would not affect my relationship with her ITC.
So the question in my mind is why she would risk angering me and losing my considerable contribution to her bottom line ITC. Why not just say no and not risk losing me as a custy? Texts after the fact around 4 yielded no responses.
Really the only reason I'm upset at all about it is that she said yes and then didn't show or give any reason, which in this situation (since no money involved) feels like being stood up on a date back in highschool all over again.
Am I missing something?
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If you made it clear up front that no money was involved, it could have been a simple brush off and back to the spenders; some girls assume that you don't want to hear "no" no matter what you say. On the other hand, she might have fully intended to be there, and something urgent came up. Between those two explanations are an infinite variety.
I think you're wasting your time asking here, though. Ask *her* when you see her again. Do it in a non-confrontational way, reemphasizing that a refusal is acceptable, and that she's really not interested, you'd rather hear that than a be left hanging. If she doesn't already have it, give her your Google Voice number (you aren't giving out your real number, are you?) and suggest she text you when she's ready, otherwise you won't bring it up again.
I thought I was pretty clear, but it could've been muddled, she's eastern european. I think you're right though, next time I see her I'll definitely make things very clear: No is a perfectly acceptable answer, but if the answer is yes I expect her to follow through, there's plenty of other dancers that I can develop relationships with.
(And yes, google voice, god bless that shit)
You are making tuition payments ITC. Learn from this. If you want to fuck a hot young stripper OTC, then your best bet is to make it a monetary arrangement. Make her less fat ITC and let the OTC payout be the carrot.
And btw, don't try to set the limits on what we comment on if you want the straight dope. You came here for advice, which you obviously need badly, so simply state your case and let those who know better help you with the right path.
Anyway, there it is.
Now onto the solution.
I think I'll start branching out a bit (I'm not cutting her off ITC, the value there for what I get is too good) and sampling some of the other local wares instead of treating her like an exclusive ATF. We're talking about Dallas here, so not like there's a dearth of opportunities.
Dude, it just doesn't work that way. I spent 5+ years putting up with the exact same BS from xATF, and nothing ever materialized OTC. Asked her mutiple times to level with me if we were strictly business and never gave me a straght answer.
When you are in the club she's only selling you a fantasy. In this case the fantasy of going home with you. By default she assume the fantasy ends for you when you leave the club. Repeat fantasy time when you return and resell same fantasy of taking home a hottie.
If she says no to you ITC, then there is no future potential to resell you the same fantasy and she figures she loses ITC revenue. I think Stelletto called it selling a box of air. Your box of air is the fantasy of her going home with you. If your not going to pay OTC or she just doesn't want to put out then all you're ever going to get is the same f-in box of air over and over again. Since you made it clear that you were not going to p4p OTC, then why the f*ck is she going to see you OTC?
Sorry if my ramblings don't make sense. She doesn't want to date you. She just keep selling you the same fantasy of a hook up.
Like I said, a PL moment that won't happen again.
Yes, you are missing something: you aren't paying enough...to get FS OTC...or any OTC for that matter.
The girls in the club are there because they want money - they are doing this for a living and to get high. They are not interested in you for very long if you don't give them money. So, unless you can offer them free drugs or back stage passes to Dustin Beaver, or just plain ol' money, you won't be getting anywhere with them.
This isn't the eHarmony website
If you want a free hookup or to make a connection, go to a singles bar. Your chances of scoring with the tactics that you're using are WAY better.
Mary: Well, Lloyd, that's difficult to say. I mean, we don't really...
Lloyd: Hit me with it! Just give it to me straight! I came a long way just to see you, Mary. The least you can do is level with me. What are my chances?
Mary: Not good.
Lloyd: You mean, not good like one out of a hundred?
Mary: I'd say more like one out of a million.
[pause]
Lloyd: So you're telling me there's a chance... *YEAH!*
1) I'm with the others on this - you ARE missing something. We've all entertained "dating" a stripper, and I'm no exception. There's something about nuzzling with a hot naked girl that does a beeline to our masculine desire to covet. We want that connection to be ongoing, but alas, it truly is a fantasy - albeit one we can enjoy to the max ITC and if P4P, OTC.
I'd suggest compartmentalizing the experience for what it is, and enjoy the sex/connection on its own time-limited and dollar-fueled merits.
2) Do tell - what's a "semi-SD?" I didn't see "SD" in the Glossary.
Semi-SD, aka NutraSweet Daddy = someone who pretends to be a wealthy SD, tries to get naive Sugar Babies to sleep with him for dinner & a movie and vague promises. Usually only works with fuglies.
And if you do find a willing partner for your free OTC activities, do not expect it to last long. My experience says either the emotions will make it too complicated to maintain a healthy distance, or she'll realize she's missing out on the money and find someone else, or both. But if you can pull it off long term, good luck and best wishes.
Yeah of course it is what we want, to not pay so it is 'real'. But in the end (on my last day when it was too late) she says next time i'm in town, if i pay $400 and 'spoil' her, then she would finish in the club early, come to my room, 'relax' for a few hours then we can still enjoy go out later. Being 'spoiled' is just her 'mentality'. Next time, i gonna just pay!
Am sure we are real 'friends', have been for a good while now and we still speak most weeks even though am from far away from where she works, but no matter how much 'friends' we are, i'm always gonna be paying one way or another for her even though i know she does actually like me.
Basically, just accept, if you want to enjoy, just pay and enjoy ... still prob works out best in the long run than spending loads ITC, or fooling yourself you can have a real relationship ... just enjoy what you got ?
And hey let's be honest, a real GF or wife is soon gonna cost you more than $400 too !!!!
I think that's all I got.
The other type is the low self-esteem girls that may quickly get attached. I've had both.
The third type are the professionals that won't fuck around some of these require money, some require a miracle
Oh please dear TUSCL lords and ladies, forgive me my sin of PL'ness. It won't happen again! (Maybe) At least not with this girl.
But some good came of this. Eyes opened, ideas planted, intentions bolstered.
Of course I have no doubts that if I stopped paying for her cellphone, stopped "loaning" her $400 a month, our 7-8 OTC sessions per month would end. Strictly comparing to market rates this is an pretty good deal for me. I think I have become a dependable "nutrasweet" daddy to her. I could see us being friends if I stopped semi supporting her but the OTC fs would definitely end