OTC with Strippers: the Caviar of the Sex Industry

80 comments

• Htxx

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  8 years ago

  Absolutely 100% correct
• Bavarian

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  8 years ago

  That's all fine and dandy but that is your unique experience and it's a HUGE YMMV I would not do escorts because of the background check and their high mileage. I see my CF outside the club but she charges likes an escort, down to the minute. It sucks but oh well. I think you just have a really fun personality and are attracting the strippers who just want to party. Very few PLs will be able to snag a hot stripper who is willing to do OTC for cheap and not watching the clock.
• GoVikings

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  8 years ago

  I've never done OTC or hired an escort, so I can't speak on it. But this was a great read and Subra your contributions on TUSCL are always fantastic.
• mjx01

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  8 years ago

  except that she HAS done 4 other guys today
• mjx01

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  8 years ago

  LG has you beat by a mile IMO
• gawker

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  8 years ago

  I used to travel and frankly was quite unaware about the pleasure of strip clubs and used the yellow pages to call escort services. I had some very good and some not so good experiences. In 8 or 9 years of calling escorts ( about once a month) I only got ripped off once ( in Vegas, of course), I had a couple of repeat women, but it was usually a crap shoot waiting to see who ( or what) showed up at my door. Most required condoms and few would allow cumming in the mouth ( one of my favorite activities). When I met my ATF and discovered OTC with my idea of a 9.5 rated stripper, I thought I'd died and gone to heaven. We started out with straight p4p but after a few times, we started chilling together and partying ( despite a 40 year age difference). I'm not saying she never lied to me, but I never got the regular stripper shit. I knew she provided BJ's to other customers in the club, however she charged them an exorbitant amount for CIM and few paid it. When she started doing OTC with another guy, she told me all about him and she made him use a condom but not me. I met her BF and baby daddy when he got out of prison and I learned an awful lot about her and her heroin habit. Now many of the escorts I met through the years had their share of track marks and I wasn't naive about drugs, but the power of the addiction and the demands of the cravings were new to me. After 7 years of seeing her very regularly, she moved away and while we talk often and text regularly, I've come to grips with my right hand again. Stripper OTC beats escorts any day of the week.
• HungryGiraffe

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  8 years ago

  Right on, right on. Can't stand the background check paradigm with the escort game. It's easy to maintain anonymity doing OTC with strippers. The low rate overnight, or multiple night opportunity with strippers is really cost effective. The next level of cost effectiveness is the sugar baby sugar daddy game. For a small steady stipend there is an incredible number of beautiful strippers willing to spend a lot of non-clock watching time with their sugar daddies.
• Subraman

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  8 years ago

  Bavarian-->"That's all fine and dandy but that is your unique experience and it's a HUGE YMMV I see my CF outside the club but she charges likes an escort, down to the minute. It sucks but oh well. I think you just have a really fun personality and are attracting the strippers who just want to party. Very few PLs will be able to snag a hot stripper who is willing to do OTC for cheap and not watching the clock."--> Thanks for commenting, Bav. I think you're giving me a bit too much credit -- I have a hunch most guys here who OTC, have encountered the partygirl stripper who charges for the sex but not her time. I don't think you've been around doing this all that long, but you'll run into that too, eventually. It DOES help to be a fun customer ... if she dreads the idea of hanging out with you for an extra hour, eating and drinking, yes she'll charge I HAVE run into strippers who have a professional account-for-every-minute outlook, but I just avoid them, just not an option for me. No interest in OTCing with that model
• Subraman

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  8 years ago

  HungryGiraffe-->"The next level of cost effectiveness is the sugar baby sugar daddy game. For a small steady stipend there is an incredible number of beautiful strippers willing to spend a lot of non-clock watching time with their sugar daddies. " As you know from the Discussion side, I'm exploring that right now. I have had arrangement-like relationships with strippers and enjoyed them, but looking forward to trying this out with a woman with a more civilian-like mindset (yes, they're in the sex industry, but it turns out, Denial is a river in Egypt)
• Subraman

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  8 years ago

  GoVikings-->" I've never done OTC or hired an escort, so I can't speak on it. But this was a great read and Subra your contributions on TUSCL are always fantastic." Thanks for the props! Much appreciated. How come you haven't tried OTC yet? Just not interested? The really stunning realization to me, regarding strippers versus everyone else in the sex industry, is how spoiled we are with hotness. I remember walking out of a strip club with a buddy of mine, who also does escorts. He said escorts are nowhere near as hot as strippers, I pointed out that all you have to do is look at the ads and you can see lots of escorts are as hot as strippers, and his reply: "I've fucked all those girls you see in those pictures. There's 10 girls in the strip club right now who blow every every single one of them -- the pictures all lie". I learned this firsthand when I started doing bodyrubs. It was YEARS before I ran into a bodyrub girl who would be top 50% at a high end strip club -- no exaggeration, you can explore bodyrubs for years and not run into a girl who is as hot as a pretty hot stripper. Meanwhile, at that high-end stripclub, in a 40-girl lineup, by definition 20 of them are "top 50% at a high end strip club", and the strip club delivers these girls to us day after day, week after week. My buddy who does escorts says even the $500 and $1000 escorts aren't as hot as the hottest strippers, and at this point, I believe him... and I fuck those hot strippers for waaaay less than $500/hour, if you count pre- and post-OTC socializing and partying
• Roadworrier

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  8 years ago

  For strippers, the OTC overnight roughly equalling 30 min in a VIP room is worth it on an off-night, because first of all, she keeps the money doesn't have to kick back half or more of it to the club. There is no guarantee she's going to open the cookie jar either, though. In my case, it was just a gal coming by my hotel after her shift up the street at the club, she wanted a shower (which we took together), some spooning and some sleep, and then in the morning she felt good enough for some playtime. Over time, it became clear she wanted a sugar daddy to help with lighting for her webcam studio in her house (the webcam thing raises a flag for me), as well as a guy who could come fix things or pay for repairs, etc. With all the $$ I'd given to her thru lap dances over the last couple years, plus OTC, then wanting me for sugar daddy duty (given I already have a needy wife with lots of expenses), I realized that wasn't terribly appealing to me. To the point now where i haven't gone to see her anymore even when I've had the opportunity to do so. Sometimes too much of a good thing becomes too much, period.
• shadowcat

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  8 years ago

  I've never called an escort but I have known 5 that have turned escort after working at my favorite club. I have gotten table dances from all 5, done VIP with 3 and OTC with one. 2 of them have quit the agency and 2 more are still working at the club. I have told those 2 that I don't do escorts. Btw 2 of them told me that the agency was taking 40%.
• MrDeuce

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  8 years ago

  Excellent article, Subraman! To me your attitude about partying with strippers ITC and then moving the party OTC when you're comfortable with each other is the gold standard. After some failed attempts during the first half of the year, I have finally found great OTC success with my ATF. Stay tuned for the *third* article in my three-part series on "My OTC Career" in about six weeks!
• GACA

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  8 years ago

  Good read. Excellent insight as always Subra
• Subraman

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  8 years ago

  Thanks GACA & Mr Deuce! shadowcat-->"Btw 2 of them told me that the agency was taking 40%." I'm sure this various by city/region, but that's standard cut for bodyrubs here. Even with independent groups, the girl whose name is actually on the lease for the apartment, takes 40% from each session that the rest of the girls do
• 99Bitches

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  8 years ago

  Excellent article! I'm very interested in a nice hot 20 something for some playtime. So far I haven't acted on it other than fantasising and reading about escorts and sugar babies. So far I've never even had FS ITC but have experienced pretty much everything else from BBBJ CIM, to DATY. So, just curious, did you start with FS ITC or did you negotiate OTC right off the bat whenever you decided this was a girl you wanted? Your article makes a lot of sense and is quite convincing. Thank you for the insight!
• GoVikings

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  8 years ago

  @Subra to answer your question---the main reason i haven't tried OTC yet--is because i'm not sure how to gauge whether a dancer would be interested in OTC. in other words, i'm not really sure how to ask. i suppose i could just ask her, but i'm guessing there's a bit more to it than that. another thing is--the clubs in my area (virginia) SUCK----so i rarely go to clubs here. i usually wait until i go out of town to visit. now, i do have a favorite who voluntarily gave me her cell phone number the last time i saw her. and i thought about asking her to meet me OTC (she knows me, in the sense that i've spent money on her 4 different times in the club) the next time i'm in town---which will be just a few weeks from now---but as i said i have no idea how to go about asking. maybe you have a good idea. ;-)
• Subraman

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  8 years ago

  99Bitches-->"So, just curious, did you start with FS ITC or did you negotiate OTC right off the bat whenever you decided this was a girl you wanted? " In extras clubs, it's always made sense to me to go for a test drive first. In fact, the reason I'd ask about OTC is **because** sex ITC was so great. However, I haven't pulled a girl from an extras club in 3 years or so. I do most of my SCing in clubs that are bouncer-patrolled no-extras clubs. Why? Because they serve alcohol, and it's become more important to me to see that I'm compatible party-wise with the stripper -- if I totally dig hanging out with her, I'll enjoy the sex. So, for the last few years, the only thing I got ITC was no-extras dances (although the girls DO find a way to slip you a little YMMV), and the first time I had sex with my OTC strippers was the first time we OTCed.
• Subraman

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  8 years ago

  GoVikings-->"to answer your question---the main reason i haven't tried OTC yet--is because i'm not sure how to gauge whether a dancer would be interested in OTC. in other words, i'm not really sure how to ask. i suppose i could just ask her, but i'm guessing there's a bit more to it than that." There's really not that much more to it than asking. We all have our own Systems(tm), of course, and I'll tell you mine, but I think just asking is fine. For me: 1. I party with her ITC a few times -- by "party", I mean, we'll be slamming shots, I'll be doing my best to hold up my end of the conversation and not be creepy, and she'll be happy with the VIPs we do. Since all my girls these days are from no-extras clubs, and many are new girls who have never done OTC (and, in fact, refuse at first), I've convinced myself that the bonding and trust-building is key ... more so than if I were pulling girls from extras clubs. 2. When the moment is right -- usually when we're sharing a laugh -- I ask her if she'd be willing to meet me outside the club. I make it clear that we'll be partying just like we are now -- "we'll go grab something to eat, do some drinking, then head back to the room" -- just basically want her to know it will be fun, there WILL be sex involved, and she'll get paid. My advice in how you word things is: don't be a little bitch and use weasel words that depersonalize your request or give her an easy way out. "Are you available for takeout?" is completely depersonalized, and gives her a chance to say something like, "sorry, my rule is I don't see people outside the club", because, after all, it's not personal. I ask her if she'll see ME outside the club. If she says she doesn't see customers, well, "I'm not asking about customers, I'm asking about ME". The girls use this exact same psychology in their hustles, and it works back on them. I want her to know that this is a personal question, about she and I, and if she infers there will be consequences for the wrong answer, as far as her now-favorite customer goes :) -- that's great! Plus, in the end, it's actually NONE OF MY FUCKING BUSINESS what she does with other customers, so "do you see customers outside the club" is both pussy phrasing and way overstepping my bounds. Meanwhile, there are guys pulling girls for OTC using exactly those corny "are you available for takeout" phrases, although again, I think that's not the way to approach a low-volume girl. With a high-volume girl who OTCs with everyone, doesn't matter what you say.
• larryfisherman

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  8 years ago

  Are you trolling us Vikings? You've been on here six years, there's been a million OTC threads, and you've been to a bunch of clubs, and you still don't know how to ask a girl for OTC?? Never mind the fact that I'm sure some girls have asked you if you want to do OTC. Two words for you: JUST ASK. They're strippers. "Will you see me outside the club?" That's it. SIMPLE. I would never try the escort route. You can't be sure the girls look exactly like they do in the ads. Most of the times the ads were probably taken five years ago when they were twenty pounds lighter. At least with strippers you see what they look like ITC, and you can build a little rapport with them before asking for OTC. Good article Subra.
• GoVikings

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  8 years ago

  Thanks Subra....I'll keep that in mind
• Subraman

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  8 years ago

  larry-->"I would never try the escort route. You can't be sure the girls look exactly like they do in the ads. Most of the times the ads were probably taken five years ago when they were twenty pounds lighter. At least with strippers you see what they look like ITC, and you can build a little rapport with them before asking for OTC." This is all true, of course, along with professional airbrushed pics, etc. What I haven't emphasized enough, though, is the quality of the sex -- it is a huge disparity. Stripper OTC: I've met her in the club a few times. She's gorgeous. I love her personality. Because I club in no-extras clubs, I've gotten teased by her, which is absolutely maddening. Now, when she shows up OTC, I finally get more than tease -- sometimes the buildup from weeks of ITC meetings has me literally aching for her. Like a high school kid, I get hard the moment I touch her, and it just gets more explosive from there. My last escort experience: buddy recommends a girl whose pics are amazing. I show up, and she's... pretty. Pretty enough to work at a good strip club, which is already a victory for an escort; not pretty enough to be one of the hottest girls. I like her personality somewhat, I guess, based on our 5 minutes of get-to-know-you small talk before she ushers me in the shower. I get out, and now I'm having sex with a pretty girl who was a stranger 10 minutes ago. Can't complain about that. I think most escort clients are looking for a pretty girl who is great at sex. We as OTC customers don't have to settle for that: we can have a GORGEOUS girl, for far more time than we could afford with an escort, and who drives us crazy not just physically but psychologically ... for me, good sex with a girl that drives me wild, is 10x better than sex with a girl who is great at sex but is basically just a stranger who I have no feelings for. No right or wrong, as I've said, do whatever you floats your boat. But the "I am crazy for this girl" factor with OTC cannot be matched, for me. Even my worst OTC sex was better than my best escort sex.
• larryfisherman

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  8 years ago

  GoVikings clubs in Richmond? One of the top five worst cities in America for strip clubs. Which makes it even more outrageous you've never tried for OTC. You're not getting any action ITC, so why not take it OTC?? Unless of course you're married or have a girlfriend and just want to "chill out" in the strip club. Whatever floats your boat. SMH. Yes Subraman I would imagine escort sex would be mechanical, as opposed to the strippers you've built a rapport with.
• Corvus

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  8 years ago

  Great article Subraman, and some good follow up discussion from everyone too. God, I love TUSCL!
• Subraman

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  8 years ago

  desert: I didn't add in dinner & incidentals, because they're exactly the same as if you were taking an escort out to dinner & drinking. Overnight with escort = $1500 + dinner + drinks + hotel room. Overnight with stripper = $350 + dinner + drinks + hotel room. STripper = far hotter and probably gives up more sexually I think pricing-wise, you're a little higher than me on the stripper, and on the hotel. Two years ago, I could have told you honestly I'd never paid more than $250 for even a really hot stripper, but things have gone crazy here the past few years, so I've let that float up to $350. Hotel-room-wise, $200 would not remotely get me a 5-star hotel, but I tend to either stick with "just nice enough hotels" ($150-ish) or, whenever it's not an overnight and I can talk her into it, the nice hot tub places ($40/hour). I do typically spend at your high end for dinner & drinks though
• Jascoi

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  8 years ago

  the other day i happened by a massage parlor in a strip mall after having a treat at a cafe. was not bad butt still cost $150 for a one hour rub and tug. i was hopeful for a rub and fuck... such as i had a few times a few years ago. she did get me off... my preference still are strippers. stripclubs offers more visual possibilities. and the excitement of the moment.
• Jascoi

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  8 years ago

  and the possibilities of doing otc.
• Subraman

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  8 years ago

  justme: for sure, there are times when escorts or rub-and-tugs work better. I hope to keep getting rub-and-tugs 'til I die :) After all, everyone could use some french fries now and then. But I plan to spend most of my money on caviar :)
• twentyfive

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  8 years ago

  Good article Subra i do agree with most everything you are speaking to but my knowlwdge of escorts is severely lacking as i have never used one or gone into a MP, just as an aside here in south Florida you can do better with a hot day shift stripper cost wise, as i never pay more than $200.00-300.00 for a date not including the drinks or dinner but even there i never spend more than $150.00. a great night for me never costs more than $500.00 all in.
• MrDeuce

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  8 years ago

  I've done two overnights with my ATF in the past six weeks or so (with a third coming up next week). My price structure has been: dancer: $400 (sleepover with at least two orgasms each) hotel: $60 the first time, $0 thereafter because I stay at her place dinner: $100 or so (Japanese both times) brunch: $30 Great article, Subraman!
• Subraman

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  8 years ago

  mjx01-->"except that she HAS done 4 other guys today" Exactly. Except that she HASN'T done 4 other guys today .... except for that part, you're right
• Subraman

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  8 years ago

  twentyfive and mrdeuce: It's actually pretty interesting to see the different rates we're paying. Not surprisingly, I tend to spend relatively more on booze & food than most people. I'm stuck paying $150-$200 for the hotel in those rare cases when I can't convince the stripper "the hot tubs are super nice and clean, and only $40, so I can spend the rest of the hotel money on you!". I am still somewhat surprised that here in the 1st or 2nd most expensive city in the country, I still pay towards the lower end for the stripper herself ... I again (possibly mistakenly) attribute that to the fact the I try to become her favorite most-fun customer before I ask her OTC.
• Jascoi

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  8 years ago

  i had a great time with a new stripper last nite in vip. i'm gonna try to have her otc.
• HannibalSmith

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  8 years ago

  Great article! I fully agree. Escorts have too much "buyer beware" attached. strippers you get to see before you engage with anything. Where from most girls wont go in for OTC until there is some level of trust established (good for both sides). I have a regular i got to know really well (solid 9) and we have formed an amazing SD-SB NSA relationship.
• Subraman

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  8 years ago

  Hannibal: I thought that's a good description -- looking back on it, some of my OTC relationships with strippers were basically SD-SB NSA arrangements, more than anything else. And, of course, some weren't. Some guys want more strictly-delimited transactional OTC, and they can get that all they want, but if you're interested in something more arrangement-like, "no time limits, she'll just crash at my place if she feels like", etc., that's available too
• georgmicrodong

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  8 years ago

  Not sure how I missed this one, but "bingo". While I don't pay as much as you (going rate for me has been in the 150-200 range for an evening), and the hotels appear to be less expensive here (sub 100 per night for a decent place, even sometimes that cheap for the really good places if you catch a deal on Priceline), my experiences have been just as satisfying as you describe. Towards the end of my run with the ATF, I was getting sometimes most of a night for my $200 plus dinner.
• artfulmaster

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  8 years ago

  I strongly disagree. My experience has been nearly the OPPOSITE. Escorts: 1) Some of my very best experiences have been on the fly, meeting within 3 hours or less, for the range you're talking about. Worst case scenario? 24 hours notice. For mid to high quality, that's reasonable to me. 2) If you go through the right channels, you only have to submit references once. Ever. They will all check them there. 3) I'd say 70% of the time, they are at least as good as the pics. 20% of the time, BETTER. It's called do your research and read reviews. 4) This is a natural process, so you can get a feel for one another. I wouldn't expect a model material escort to drop to her knees immediately once inside the door (although it has happened). Sure, it can be excessive, but that's only happened to me maybe 20% of the time. Look, just because you're paying a girl doesn't mean she stops being a girl. Don't expect her to act like a slave or a dude. 5) I agree with this point, but because I did my research, I make sure it is exceptional. 6) Most of the time, I'm fine with that, I got what I paid for. One I really clicked with kept me for 2 1/2 hours on a 90 min bill. I'll even admit I usually spend a little more, because: OTC: 1) How many times have you done that and it worked? I want statistics. It's never been that easy for me, even after dropping a significant amoutn on dances. 2) How is this uncertainty better than the other option, which works for me about 85% of the time? 3) Honestly, the only time I had one show up is when SHE pursued the OTC the same night as the club--she made the the call, the place, the night, the time, unexpectedly, after numerous months of dances, and with ulterior motives beyond the OTC. At that point, I had already started checking out the other dancers, thinking I could have made a better choice. 4) Not I. I get this thing called whiskey dick, and drunk girls often get sloppy (and even worse, puke!). Simply put, I don't drink if I'm playing. Especially since when I do, they seem to find other ways of getting cash out of me. Besides, drunken sex sucks, and if the girl is really that hot, don't you want to remember it? Don't you want it to be good, or is your only intention to score? 5) Wrong AGAIN. The OTC I mentioned earlier? She brought a friend with a sob story. I was out some sympathy cash, and didn't get either one. 6) More like receive innumerable texts on my phone whenever the club is slow and she needs cash. They won't leave me alone when they get my number, and I don't get a whole lot in return. Plus, when I am at the club, the ones I've spent time with seem to think they own me and won't let the other girls near. I have make excuses when I'm with my friends why a stripper is blowing up my phone. And take her out drinking? Forget that, I don't want my friends to see her, they'd know something was up. Total cost: Ridiculous amount of time, attention, and weekly lapdances that add up to way more than a 60 second appt request, confirmation, $500, and 90 minutes of getting pretty much what I want, sometimes more. But I guess YMMV.
• joc13

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  7 years ago

  Subraman: thanks for great article. I share your fondness for rub-n-tugs (actually, rub-n-tugs are my fav) since the rub provides more intimacy than most escort encounters. Your opening about "make an appt on Thursday at 2pm and hope you're still horny on Thursday" was spot on and exactly why I was a LMA (last minute appointment) enthusiast in my more active Hobbyist days. I have been working back into the SC scene over the last two years and have been pursuing OTC relationships. Wish I had read your article earlier, cause I think I allowed the girl's expectations to be set a little too high, and she went right past "I can replace 8 hrs of hustling dances and tips on a crapshoot weekday night with some guaranteed $$$ (that I don't have to share with the club) and a nice date with a guy I know is going to treat me nice" to "I need to be well taken care of with nice gifts and $$$ on dates and oh by the way it's tougher to schedule with me than any escort you've ever tried to book". However, the fact that we've connected so well ITC creates an incredibly high level of anticipation, so I may pursue for a little while, at least.
• gunrack

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  7 years ago

  There are pros and cons to eveything, including strippers vs. escorts. I have seen escorts exclusively up until recently where I started enjoying SC more. With escorts, it's a sure bet she shows up and you'll get laid. The con is that it's true that she may not be as hot as you thought she was, or even your type, and also you may not like her personality or get along. That is always the risk, but the pro is that you'll definitely get laid or get foreplay. Short term it's cheaper with an escort. The pro with strippers is that she will be your type and because she is your type and you will think she is hot. But the con is that it cost a lot of money and time because you have to build a relationship with her first(you have to be almost a club regular), before she even agrees to otc or itc activties. And that is if she is even willing to do otc, where half of the strippers probably don't! So unless you like the chase, putting in time, have the financial resources and the SC environment it's far from a slam dunk. You might have to spend $200 or $300 every week for a few weeks before she feels comfortable enough to even do otc stuff so it's alot more expensive.
• Subraman

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  7 years ago

  Some interesting comments since I checked here last! Starting with the last first: gunrack, broadly, we're saying some of the same things: the escort is a sure thing, she'll show up, looks and overall desirability are a crap shoot at best. Things are less certain with strippers, and there is some up-front investment in time and $, but once you score: waaay hotter girl, way more desirable girl (to you, at least), and your first two overnights, you'll more than recoup the initial investment. What's a 9 escort typically charge for an overnight? $2000? The economics and overall hotness are order-of-magnitude better for OTC, once you score. Well worth it for me. I can see how some people can't be bothered. I do disagree with this: "you have to be almost a club regular". I think that completely depends on the club and the market. A lot of the guys on tuscl seem to enjoy after-shift OTC the very first time they meet a stripper, and I'm under the impression that they are neither club regulars or regulars of that particular stripper. Though I myself follow your claim: I'm a club regular, and see a girl a few times ITC, before I go OTC with her
• rh48hr

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  7 years ago

  Subra - Great article. Glad it was brought up in one of the recent discussion posts. This was posted right after I stopped coming to the site for awhile. So good to get caught up. I've never gone the escort route. For all of the same reasons you listed. I have done AMP's and have had fun but I still prefer SC's to AMP's because it isn't as much fun as SC's to me. It's always good to keep adding pieces to what I do ITC to get a dance OTC. I have a new dancer I may want to explore OTC with, so I will keep some of these strategies in mind. She works at an all nude club so buying her drinks is not on the table (although FS ITC was). She has a fun personality so I'm hoping she's up for fun OTC Thanks for writing this.
• Subraman

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  7 years ago

  No worries! BTW, at all nude clubs, with girls I knew well (who at least reached the level of CF), I'd often buy a bottle of water at the club, go into the bathroom, dump out the water and refill with vodka, and my CF and I would drink that. Often, her stripper bffs would come sit with us and drink with us. Low-rent fun, with a bit of high-school-level stick-it-to-the-man that can be kinda amusing.
• rh48hr

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  7 years ago

  Nice touch. I'll keep that in mind.
• san_jose_guy

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  7 years ago

  Strippers gotta keep thin and fit, because they will have little or know coverage, and some guys are really judgemental about a girl's looks. But also, strip clubs are the venue which has the greatest potential, because it allows for free form unstructured fraternizing, before committing to the back room. Used wisely, this will always yield the best backroom experience and the greatest potential for great outside contact. Guys just need to learn to understand this. Subra understands this. SJG
• Mr_Kay

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  7 years ago

  Excellent article. I'm going to pm you
• san_jose_guy

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  7 years ago

  "Caviar of the Sex Industry" Yeah, it makes sense. Strippers are the ones who maintain their looks and athletics. And strip clubs are really the only venues where you can have free form front room fraternizing. And then our Subra, getting his women to dress for him and put on a show, over cell phone video. So that tells him what phase of the moon it is, and that its time for him to come in and see them. And it recreates that See, Want, Get which one gets when he spots his girl for the first time at a strip club. Subra! Subra! Subra! SJG
• Subraman

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  7 years ago

  SJG is #1 in my fanclub. Don't be jealous, bitches
• san_jose_guy

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  7 years ago

  :) :) :) SJG
• PrimetimeSchein

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  7 years ago

  You're fuckin genuis Subra
• Subraman

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  7 years ago

  Thank you sir :)
• Huntsman

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  7 years ago

  Subra, I know I'm commenting on a old article but I think the topic is excellent. I somewhat agree with you but offer a couple of points that disagree. First, I've known some very hot body rub girls and escorts that would compete with top end strippers and aren't ridiculously expensive. I do agree that strippers are generally hotter but I think you've overstated the difference. Research thoroughly ahead of time helps. In other words, amps and backpage are not the only way to meet pros. But yes, the first meeting is a crapshoot. Second, there is the option of repeating with escorts just as there is repeating with otc strippers. If there is a hot one who turns your crank, see her again. Or not. And like with strippers, an escort might hang out with you for extra time without charging. Or not. As far as the pain in screening, custom varies but it's actually pretty easy. There are ways to make it pretty anonymous such as p411. Also, the location most often involves a lady's incall. I would respectfully submit that you would be no less anonymous with a p411 screening, a dedicated email/burner phone at a provider's incall than you would hanging out at hotels and bars with a stripper while using your credit card and riding in your vehicle. Maybe one can completely avoid the vehicle and pay everything with cash but you've still signed up for a room/hot tub and your wallet is more available to her due to the lengthy time duration. I generally agree with your article in terms of looks and getting the chance to meet ahead of time before proceeding with anything as advantages in seeing a stripper versus a first time encounter with a body rub or fs escort. But after the first encounter, I think a lot of the advantages go away. The bottom line is that while I find the topic and discussion good, I don't think that there is much difference between the two. IME, the ymmv concept always applies. And the equation always involves sex and money. I think it is largely the same game. Thanks for posting this interesting article.
• Subraman

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  7 years ago

  Great comments, Huntsman. None of the comments below are meant to doubt your experience, just clarify my own experiences: -->"First, I've known some very hot body rub girls and escorts that would compete with top end strippers and aren't ridiculously expensive. I do agree that strippers are generally hotter but I think you've overstated the difference." Fair enough. But I'll tell you that I think you're in the minority. I am confident enough that I've posted this same claim on escort-dominant forums, and there wasn't a whole lot of disagreement. There are certainly stripper-hot escorts and massage girls, no question -- hell, the migration is almost solely one-way from stripper to escort or massage girls, so at the very least, all the ex-stripper escorts and massage girls are stripper hot :) And I realize there's more. But I stand behind the statement that if you go into the hottest club in your area on a Saturday night, you'll see 15 girls who are in the ballpark as hot as the hottest escorts and massage girls. There's just waaaaay more of them in strip clubs. -->"Second, there is the option of repeating with escorts just as there is repeating with otc strippers. If there is a hot one who turns your crank, see her again. Or not. And like with strippers, an escort might hang out with you for extra time without charging. Or not. " For me, you're equating getting rained on, with getting hit by lightning. Yes, I realize sometimes a customer gets so close with an escort that she gives him extra time -- that tends to be a fairly rare treat given to very few clients. Whereas it's the rule, not exception, with OTC. -->"I generally agree with your article in terms of looks and getting the chance to meet ahead of time before proceeding with anything as advantages in seeing a stripper versus a first time encounter with a body rub or fs escort. But after the first encounter, I think a lot of the advantages go away. " I think once you've met the first time, the huge difference in experiences: - Most people will typically meet an escort for an hour, or 50 minutes if you count shower time. Often, that doesn't leave a ton of get-to-know-you time. In decades of playing the field, I've gotten to know and get close with very few women in this field. With strippers, for any customers who wants it, it's not difficult to spend lots of time, and the difference in lust factor can be enormous - I continue to claim that, while in OTC hours of extra time, and even overnights, thrown in without extra fee is pretty common, it is exceedingly rare with escorts and massage girls. Most escort customers are crowing that "she's not a clock watcher" if the escort gives him 15 extra minutes.
• Jascoi

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  6 years ago

  still an excellent article and discussion.
• Beat100

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  4 years ago

  All of these sounds amazing! However, there are so many logistical issues that can come up. Initially, I thought it was a shot in the dark, however, it seems like it's easier than that. 1- Do you pick a specific date that seems more likely that will happen? For instance I realized that during the week its better than the weekend. Since during the week there's low volume of people there's no tourists maybe try on a Tuesday,Wedneday Thursday? 2- Do you pick a specific time? Like you show up at 3am when the club is about to close? Or would you show up very early to convince the girl to leave before more people come and it'll be less likely that she'll remember you? 3-Or do you focus much more on the girl's shift? For instance, in some clubs from what I'm told girls have to stay until 2am but then afterward they can leave. Or other girls have an afternoon shift and it ends in the early night. 4-Do you pick specific clubs that you know will be more conducive to OTC? Maybe non-alcohol clubs? 5-Do you pick a specific dancer that seems more prone to do OTC? Maybe, she's by herself, slightly older or younger? 6-Do you drink with the dancer to get to know her? How long did you spend with her? 7-How do you know the girl you'd made a connection with a girl that's she'll want to meet you? Seems that the ones I met were either in hustler mode or very friendly in that she'll tell you anything as long as you are spending money, afterward she'll be nice to you but distant. 8-At what time are you doing this? Like very late into the night or midway through? It seems like if you do it too early the girl will completely forget about you. 9-Say I drink briefly with her and then do a lapdance, I could say, "Hey you seem really cool, I have an after-party going to my hotel, good drinks, good drugs. Let's exchange numbers and try to meet. 10-How would you do this discreetly without the bouncers trying to intimate you? I had it where I was a club and the bouncer told me to "cool it." It was my first time at that club and the girl starts kissing me..etc. 11-How much does it matters if you are regular? Once you are a regular it's most likely the bouncer will ignore or acknowledge you.etc. 12-Where would you meet her? I remember when I was in Sapphire once you go outside there's a lot of people groups, where someone could easily get lost? Do you tell her to meet me across the street? At a specific spot? Some clubs don't have that though it's just an empty parking lot. 13-Some clubs have the bouncer waiting that every girl gets in the cab at least the first time of the night, I think this was Sapphire when I was there. How would you avoid that? 14-Some girls, the one's the leave early since to not look at anyone and simply get in a cab and take off. 15-Get your car or uber to wait for you outside away from the ruckus that it's the pick-up station. 16-MOST IMPORTANT: Would you say its a numbers game or connection game? Like you try to invite as many dancers as you can and ONE will mee you or do you try to become a regular with one girl maybe go on a Monday then on a Wedneday hence the girl remembers you and its most likely to come meet you. If anyone would like to create an infled on how they pulled it off it'll be great haha. The thing is there's a lot of incorrect knowledge out there because of PUA's so its hard to tell what will work.
• Beat100

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  4 years ago

  Bonus Questions: 17-What if a girl is with her friends, while dancer might be competitive with each other sometimes they are in groups. I remember, I was a club where 3-4 girls left together. Would you be clear to her, "I only want to meet up with you?" `18-Does it matter if you are with a friend and it'll be more likely she'll come? Or it doesn't matter? 19-There's a time where the dancer will change her outfit and then head to leave the club. However, sometimes the receptionists and security will not let you leave together(I went once with my stripper friend) therefore, how would you overcome this? Would you be waiting for her at the corner, how have you guys done it? Haha, so many questions but at least this could help guys in the future that have an interest in the topic.
• Subraman

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  4 years ago

  Holy shit that's a lotta questions man! If only this software had quoting capabilities, like all forum software had back in like 1998. "Do you pick a specific date that seems more likely that will happen?" There's no way to know which day of the week is free in a stripper's crazy life. You have to ask her. The only rule for success is: set the OTC date for as soon as possible, strippers don't schedule 2 weeks out. "Do you pick a specific time? Like you show up at 3am when the club is about to close?" This question, and many of the ones that follow, assume I'm taking her OTC immediately after her shift. I do that sometimes, but that's the exception. I strongly prefer to get her OTC on a day she's not working at all. I prefer starting in the afternoon and letting it go as late as it goes. I'll skip all the rest of the questions that seem to assume I'm taking her OTC right from the club. "Do you pick specific clubs that you know will be more conducive to OTC? Maybe non-alcohol clubs?" I usually see a stripper a bunch of times before we go OTC -- I just like getting a bit crazy about her before getting her off campus. So I go to clubs that are fun for me (alcohol clubs, so I can drink with her) and that have the hottest chicks (alcohol clubs, since they're lower contact). "Do you pick a specific dancer that seems more prone to do OTC?" Nope, I pick a smokin' hot dancer, get to know her over multiple visits, then pop the question. My experience is, other than the obvious high volume skanks, it's not easy to guess who will or will not entertain OTC. "Do you drink with the dancer to get to know her?" Do you know who I am bro? THAT'S MY THING. I see her over multiple visits, 3-5 hours per visit, drinking and doing dances. By the time I ask her OTC, she'll already consider me a customer "How do you know the girl you'd made a connection with a girl that's she'll want to meet you?" I don't. If she ends up not meeting me, I move on. No big deal. I love being in the club and getting dances and drinking, OTC is the cherry on top, but it's not like I regret my time ITC if she won't go. "How would you do this discreetly without the bouncers trying to intimate you?" I'm the one who does the intimidating. ha ha, just kidding, you think I'm Rick or something? Seriously though, I have no idea what the bouncers would try to intimidate me over. I'm a great customer, I spend money, the girls are happy, and I typically get to know the bouncers in my regular clubs. "How much does it matters if you are regular?" You can do all this without ever being a regular. But in my regular clubs, I get to know the bouncers and managers, the benefits are huge. I have not paid an entrance fee in years. I have not had a bouncer walk through my VIP dances in years -- they walk through once per every song or two for everyone else. The benefits are huge if you are not socially awkward and are okay talking with staff. (skiipping another bunch of questions that assume I'm getting her right after her shift) "Would you say its a numbers game or connection game?" Not a numbers game for me. I pick a girl I'm crazy about, see her a few times so she feels comfortable, and she's the one I pursue. She's already my CF by the time I'm asking her OTC, and she may well be my new ATF a few months later, since I just stick with her until she retires or starts to suck
• Beat100

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  4 years ago

  Excellent reply man, I'm very enlightened now. I guess some follow-up questions: 1-What percentage of OTC's yours and of other guys are mostly then being regulars vs then going to the club and playing a numbers game? What have you heard so far?(I know you have a very specific strategy but I'm curious what you've heard from others guys) 2-Has there ever been a time where you bought drinks for a girl a bunch of days and she didn't want to OTC? I remember, one time there was a guy who kept spending money and had a girl drinking with him but he ended up empty-handed. Would you say after two times trying it two hours each and nothing has happened to move to another girl? (For instance, say I spend $40 on drinks 1st time then another $40 next, and then move? My thing is I don't want to be throwing money and be empty-handed. 3-I read your SA on flakiness, it finds it very interesting since at least in my experience with SA i had good experiences, I would say 7-8/10 will meet up(Yes, I agree there have been a few strippers). So I'm guessing OTC would be pretty much a done deal 9/10 they'll meet up, of course, if done correctly. 4-From what I gather you arrange to meet them the next day. Would you say during daytime or nighttime? Like going on "date" then straight to your place? Or just get them to your place for drinks..etc? I'm guessing the latter. 5-At least,how I see it now it depends on the club since some club seem more open and other harder, especially the smaller. But we'll see, I'll try it at different clubs. 6-Do you let the dancers sleep over? Or too risky? Seems like the other guy who wrote on this was super careful but he was also a tourist..etc. I guess its a very different situation. Thanks a lot bro, I have an idea how to proceed now.
• Subraman

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  4 years ago

  No idea of the percentages. The way I do things, there's never any guarantee she'll say yes ,and sometimes she doesn't. As I said, I really don't care, as I love being in the club for its own sake, and it's not wasted time or money to me if I have to move on -- especially because I wouldn't be seeing her multiple times if she weren't blowing me away in the club each time anyway. That said, I get my CFs to meet me OTC a pretty high % of the time. Each trip to see my CF, I get drinks, buy her lunch or dinner, and do at least two VIPs -- so way more than your $40, and then add to that she might make a few hundred dollars off dances from my buddies also, since I often SC with friends. By the time I've seen her 3 or 4 times, she's thinking of me as a regular she wants to keep. They say yes a lot, but sometimes they don't. A few select ATFs have been to my place and slept over. I mostly don't invite them to my place. Typical is: we meet for late lunch & drinks, go bar hopping, often head to a strip club (not the one she works at), get all horny, fuck it off in a hotel.
• Beat100

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  4 years ago

  I see bro, I guess I have an idea on how to approach this. My last questions is, can I just meet a dancer and tell her, "Hey let's go somewhere quiet to talk for a bit, I'll buy you a drink."? It seems you and your buddies are doing more of having a large social table and having multiple girls over etc. I mostly roll solo so I don't go with my buddies. I wonder if there' a different since you have "social proof" or it might no matter after a few visits.
• Beat100

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  4 years ago

  In all my times in the club this would be my first time buying girls drinks(the pua community haha) but I'm seeing this is the way to approach it.
• Subraman

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  4 years ago

  PUA stuff is all bullshit anyway, but even if it were accurate -- PUA is about picking up girls, we are trying to get a stripper OTC and are comfortable paying for it. I buy strippers drinks because I fucking love drinking with strippers, they're fun girls, and even more fun buzzed (sometimes they get mean when they're drunk). I SC alone about 50% of the time. I just find a table that's out of the way and just sit in the dark like a mushroom until an interesting stripper comes by (or if it's my CF, I would have texted her and she knows I'm there), and the two of us drink and carry one. I always buy her lunch -- it's the best deal in the club. If it's slow, it's not uncommon that I end up with a table full of her friends, which is pretty awesome.
• Beat100

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  4 years ago

  Awesome, thanks a lot so I guess if you buy her food your chances go even higher.
• NAAAASTY

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  4 years ago

  Great stuff Sub. Gotta say I'm a little(a lot) jealous of your style. I'm sure you've developed quite the rep at your clubs, how often do you have girls approaching you for OTC now ;) But more serious question what's your game plan for OTC when it's a club you're a tourist vs a regular?? NAAAASTY
• Subraman

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  4 years ago

  Thanks bro! I mostly only OTCs with girls I'm a bit attached to -- generally they're already my CF by the time I'm asking them OTC, I've seen them 2-4 times already. I usually don't ask for OTC when I'm clubbing as a tourist, out of town in AZ or Vegas, say. If I did I'd have to completely change styles I imagine, and just drink with her, and hope she'll hang out OTC after her shift.
• LVclubber

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  4 years ago

  I know I'm replying to an old thread, but here's a data point for a strike out. I go to a club that I hit about 3-4 times a year. I'm not local, just travel to that city fairly often. I go in and I see "Stone" or maybe her stage name is "Sloane", who knows for sure. But, I do know she's a stoner. Anyway, she comes over and actually remembers me from a previous visit about a year before! She definitely is sending the right vibes, so I take her up on a VIP, $150 for fifteen minutes, plus tip. Normally, I tip for extras and, I throw a fiver in the tip jar for the doorman who keeps time in the VIP. In the VIP room, she's all over me. Tits shoved in my mouth, lots of stick shifting, she she's got me close to blowing my load when time's up. I ask her if she wants to do OTC. Flat out "No, I have to get to know you better." Big let down. Not being one to reinforce defeat, I move on and have another good, though not as good, VIP with another dancer. Stone/Sloane/whatever moves on too. What might have been? Maybe next time.
• georgmicrodong

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  4 years ago

  Apparently I have articles sorted by last comment as well. :D But, this article is just as applicable today as it was four years ago.
• Subraman

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  4 years ago

  Thanks, I think so too! Tragically, the continued reduction of SF strip club quality has meant I had to shift more of my focus to SA. But man, I'd love to be in a place where there's lots of stripper options again. Post covid, it's back to looking
• RockAllNight

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  4 years ago

  Some great points in the article as well as over four years of follow-up. Too bad there has not been more dialogue from dancers sharing their perspectives.
• Subraman

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  4 years ago

  Yeah, I've never gotten any feedback from strippers on this article. The other article I posted, Advice I Give to Strip Club Newbies, I actually did get stripper feedback from on a different forum (a now-defunct regional strip club forum). The strippers liked it! The strip club newbie advice boils down to two things: 1. don't be an asshole, 2. don't be a little bitch. Multiple strippers DMed me off that article, they loved the "don't be an asshole" portion.
• Champphilly

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  2 years ago

  All this is BS. A hot quality high class stripper won’t step out less than 1k. Cheap ones may be. Hot girl makes 700 to 1 k easily in club even on average days. So, most this thread seem to make no sense unless chasing cheap low quality
• Subraman

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  2 years ago

  The post was written in 2016, prices have definitely changed a lot until today. That said, your personal experience doesn't apply to all of us. No, in SF, a hot girl does not make 700-1000 on an average day in the club, on dayshift. Of course, there are no dayshifts anymore so I guess that's moot. Escort prices have gone up also, of course, so the number comparison still roughly apply
• san_jose_guy

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  2 years ago

  Thanks Subraman for your update. We need to move to that Private Party / Membership Club model. That way the house fees are kept modest and the women can do what ever they want. SJG
• Muddy

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  2 years ago

  Yo Subra when's the next article coming out man? It's been long enough.
• Subraman

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  2 years ago

  I just submitted it today, which is why I was trolling the articles section :) Might be a bit of a letdown compared to this one though, just some SC ancient history
• Leonard313

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  2 years ago

  I've only done OTC once...and it ran $450 for 3 hours. I'm not going to "poo poo" Subra's article...because OTC might very well be the way to go. I've been looking for that type of arrangement for a little bit...BUT...the problem is you have to put in the time at the SC to become a regular...THEN...find a girl you 'click' with who is willing. That process of becoming a regular and developing that relationship could run thousands...just to get your foot in the door. The advantage of escorts is you always get exactly what you think you're going to get. 'Maybe' she isn't as good looking as the pictures...and they generally aren't as good looking as strippers...BUT...in many areas, the ARE strippers. I know at least 3-4 girls from one club back in Cali that would post their pics at the end of their shift and go rent a hotel room for the night where they'd provide escort services to supplement their income. Massage Parlors...."usually" the talent isn't as good looking as the escort or stripper route...but not always! Especially if you have a thing for asians. Good luck finding an asian stripper outside of Cali. I actually kinda liked the AMPs. It added some "mystery" to the process. There were a handful of times I went in thinking I'd get laid...only to find out the gal didn't do more than a BJ or HJ. That was disappointing, but it was part of the mystery. And, the AMPs were definitely a cheaper option than fucking a stripper. Escorts...usually a little more cost than AMPs...but very close when you factor in the MP house fee. So, I'll agree that a good OTC arrangement might be the best option...I just think it's very costly to find that arrangement. I think too many mongers risk creeping a girl out by immediately asking them about OTC. I think it takes time to develop. I asked for it once...because I was drunk...and I just happened to name the right price and the gal just happened to be interested. I don't think that would happen the majority of times I tried it.
• Subraman

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  2 years ago

  "I've been looking for that type of arrangement for a little bit...BUT...the problem is you have to put in the time at the SC to become a regular...THEN...find a girl you 'click' with who is willing. That process of becoming a regular and developing that relationship could run thousands...just to get your foot in the door." That's a great point, and let me address that. If you are an escort type of guy -- that is, all you want is to have sex with a provider, with as little fuss as possible -- then escorts or AMPs are easily the right answer, and it's not even close. I would never go on an escort board and start telling them that OTC is better. There's nothing about OTC that most escort mongers find appealing. The big base assumption I have is: we're on a strip club board. We all fucking love going to strip clubs. Going to a strip club and having a great time is itself an end goal, and enough reason in itself to go to the strip club. For a PL, the 1-5 trips he takes to the SC to find an OTC girl is not wasted time and cost -- it's 1-5 trips he had an amazing time anyway, money he would have spent anyway. And now, cherry on top of that sundae, is he gets OTC, which as I said is a pretty fantastic experience. I personally find nothing appealing about escorts/AMPs, though no shade on those who love it.
• Subraman

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  2 years ago

  "There's nothing about OTC that most escort mongers find appealing." Actually, let me walk that back a bit. My friends who see escorts -- the are envious over how hot my OTC strippers are compared to their escorts, and envious over multi-hour and overnights for what would could them just 2 hours with the escort. But the trips to the strip club that we love, they can't be bothered with, it's all wasted money for them. They also aren't interested in dealing with stripper flakiness
• san_jose_guy

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  2 years ago

  ITC is faster and simpler. ANd you get her dressed and painted up exactly as you first spotted her. But if you are going to see her again, that selection dynamic is gone. So it pretty much as to be by appointment. SJG
• rickmacrodong

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  2 years ago

  Sjg Whats the checkmarks next to people’s names? How donyou attain it Subraman the escorts i see on eros are much hotter than the stripeors i see Theres often one or a few pro pornstars on eros as well in any given city Otc has disease concerns,,, escorts have safety concerns Strippers are nice cause you initiatally can meet them in a safe environment and get to know them Escorts are much mire dangerous and often ask for copies of your photo id and work stuff Leonard, also if you pay say $400 for vip the stripper only gets half of that probably That should be factored in with otc meetups... you should be able to pay them their actual vip rate especially considering if youre a regular customer Leonard, that damn $450’for 3 hours is a steal The hot escorts charge that for an hour. VIP in a club is usually $300+’for 30 minutes I have a very picky taste Im picky with the strippers and escorts im into And im picky with what kind if stuff im into If they dont meet the criteria I wouldn’t do anything even if the price is lower etc Subraman youve posted a lot of useful info in this thread... hope to read through it all soon
• max_starr

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  2 years ago

  Excellent article and I do agree. I have done a few escorts and never had the fun, excitement, thrill, and satisfaction of OTC.