discussion comment
4 years ago
LW, comments on a yahoo article are not representative of anything, that's widely known. I would not quote comments on a yahoo article even if they held the same view as me. Article-bombing is well known on the left, on the right, for anyone with a special interest, etc.
Here's a recent small poll on the same topic -- 71% in favor of not returning to normal activities immediately. The widespread open rebellion predicted by others weeks ago hasn't happened, just little pockets of defiance from predictable places (some younger people, some people on the far right), but by and large there's mass popular support as shown in most polls https://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2020/04/14/Poll-71-in-US-favor-waiting-period-before-returning-to-normal/8771586867540/
I'll continue to say I think the economic damage is significant and we need to open fast. Our leadership has failed on a national level to get us to the conditions where doing so can be done safely, and I imagine they'll be held accountable at the polls. But having squandered the option to set and meet conditions to do so more safely, we'll be stuck in coming weeks with some difficult choies
discussion comment
4 years ago
"PHX dancers are on SA - confirmed. they are asking an arm, leg and your left nut.. one girl (hiiter) wanted 4000 for 4 visits.. simple math.. 1000 per fuck.. "
They may not realize it's a new world on SA :
- It is absolutely flooded with women -- not just a flood of out-of-work strippers, escorts, etc., but women from all walks of life
- With the economy in such a risky state, the number of SDs has dropped drastically
What happens when you quadruple supply and drop demand by 75% at the same time? The old "I'm a stripper so I can charge a premium to suckers who don't know any better" dynamic is almost certainly gone, for the next few years. SB allowances are going to fall in general. Guys who can still afford to pay premium prices on SA, are going to be going after actual SBs
discussion comment
4 years ago
An interesting perspective from someone who is otherwise not-my-favorite-guy: https://youtu.be/dEfDwc2G2_8 I realize this has nothing to do with how far coronavirus spreads, but figured I'd drop it in one of the covid19 threads. I'm having a hard time disagreeing with him on this one, I find.
discussion comment
4 years ago
Iheart: if you can find the girls' instagrams, 100% will advertise their OF there. I find that's the most reliable way to find them on OF
discussion comment
4 years ago
I don't disagree that the economy is badly hurt, although as with previous downturns, we'll work our way out. I do have the same concerns as you about the size of the national debt, but that existed before, and is going to be something we continue to struggle with. it is imperative we work our way out of the lockdowns as quickly as possible. Which is why everyone who actually cares that that happen, should be screaming for clear conditions under which that can happen, and holding leadership accountable for getting there, in a way that doesn't get us backsliding and make things worse.
discussion comment
4 years ago
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rickduganVerified and Certifiable Super-Reviewer
"@Sub: You're being inconsistent now. Your definition of accountable above included "in a way that doesn't give us a huge bounce and force us to close it back down." That was passive-aggressive speak for "the infection numbers are my most important concern and I will point my finger at someone if it goes back up.""
lol no it wasn't. It was direct speak for "the actual experts say that test & trace is the best way to transition; I hold leadership accountable for getting us there, especially if they claimed that we were there a month ago and it was a lie". The numbers are important -- the "numbers" are actually deaths and other life changing events.
"Boys, putting aside the prima facie absurdity of holding politicians accountable for the population transmission of a communicable illness" No one is actually doing that, it something you keep making up because it supports your narrative and you don't want to hold your own favored party accountable for anything. Covid19 is not any politician's fault -- or at least, any politician in the US. Our leadership is absolutely accountable for our response.
BTW, on your absurd "soft American" theory -- many nations throughout Europe and Asia, and increasingly in the southern hemisphere, are on lockdown also. Is your theory that soft Americans are responsible for lockdowns there, too? Or is it more likely that politicians are smartly taking into account actual epidemiologists' recommendations?
discussion comment
4 years ago
Yeah, the bikini baristas I follow are easily as hot as the hottest strippers on a good lineup.
discussion comment
4 years ago
Ha, I was wondering if any strippers would move on to bikini baristas! From what I can tell, the bikini coffee stands are still open, I have a zillion bikini baristas on my IG and they are all still posting pics and livestreaming from their stands daily. Although I imagine even if open, the business is down and not hiring many new girls ... plus, there's some training up front
discussion comment
4 years ago
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rickduganVerified and Certifiable Super-Reviewer
BTW, i don't actually expect the president to say all those things, although acknowledgement of some can go a long way. What I expect is that everyone who wants the economy opened as badly as I do, and is willing to put politics aside, should be pushing hard for strong leadership that gets us to the best position.
discussion comment
4 years ago
Since a bunch of guys who are clearly out of touch with the poor and the youth, suddenly started using concerns that don't seem to have any bearing to what the poor and youth are saying, to support the conclusion they want.
discussion comment
4 years ago
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rickduganVerified and Certifiable Super-Reviewer
LW: agree with 25. But more than that, I think a narrative of accountability might be: A month ago I said everyone who needs a test could get one. That wasn't true, and I hold myself accountable for that. It's still not true today, and I hold myself accountable for that. I have significant powers to change business priorities on things like PPE and tests, and chose not to use them, and as a result there's still no clear picture as to when we'll have the testing at scale we need. I hold myself accountable for that. As a result of all that, I'm faced with a decision as to whether or not to open up the economy, without having provided the leadership that would have resulted in the most favorable conditions (e.g., testing at scale) for us to do so. I am absolutely accountable for that, and you should hold me to it.
As someone who never voted for Obama, that's the standard I would have held Obama too, if it were him. It's also the standard everyone who is squirming at the mention of accountability would have held Obama to.
In any case, with the failure to set up the right conditions, it's likely the governors will continue to make their own decisions. How much will the economy rebound without NY & CA, and many other states? I dunno; as a lifelong pro-business Republican, I would have preferred we'd be in a different position currently.
discussion comment
4 years ago
I love all the pretend concern about the youth -- the ones who have the most time to rebuild their wealth. Meanwhile, at least on social media, even the youth have significantly turned towards the lockdown, including a significant amount of social shaming. They don't view their parents as sacrificial as you do. You guys do not speak for the poor or youth, stop pretending to remotely have your finger on their pulse.
The shutdowns were always positioned as having as the #1 goal flattening the curve -- so the health system doesn't collapse as it did in some areas of Italy and Spain, the predictable result of moving too slowly. The countries that were able to delay or lighten lockdowns were the ones, like South Korea and Israel, who took early action around test & trace, etc. Ironically, the guys who most say they want the economy re-started, are the ones least willing to hold our leadership accountable for getting us to a point where we can do the same.
discussion comment
4 years ago
From what I can tell, a whole lot of them have 1. fired up onlyfans, 2. joined SA, 3. become camgirls
There are definitely no more sexy girls working at the supermarkets lol... my sense is, the strippers are just changing their hustles from ITC to online
discussion comment
4 years ago
" If the shelter-in-place rules aren't achieving the results originally hoped for "
No need to guess on that -- from data so far, they're achieving what was hoped for, the curves are flattening, and predictably, those who SIPed first are the ones seeing their curves flattening first, as a general rule. Hopefully, those curves continue to flatten quickly, we can meet the other conditions (e.g., availability of testing at scale) that would trigger a return, and we're off!
discussion comment
4 years ago
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gStephThe view from the other side of the room
Just tried to order a clipper last night, all the top rated ones are out of stock. Looks like I was a bit slow on this one
discussion comment
4 years ago
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rickduganVerified and Certifiable Super-Reviewer
Ha, I love that you call "accountability" silly. Accountability is a concept that is core to how business and society work -- and it separates children from adults. It's not hard to see why you're evading and trying to make believe accountability is not a concept we should apply to the president, at a time of a global pandemic. Accountability is not blame. The refusal to discuss accountability, coupled with an appeal to jr high school style macho "you're all soft; not me, I'm tough!", comes off a tad ... disingenuous? If you want the economy opened, hold the president accountable for creating the conditions under which that can happen, with acceptable tradeoffs. Meanwhile, the people you're pretending to champion don't want your help, "just reopen everything" is not the view held by the poorest and those dying disproportionately. stop pretending to be their champion, they hold different views than you. And they certainly understand the concept of accountability.
discussion comment
4 years ago
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rickduganVerified and Certifiable Super-Reviewer
"Funny. I was thinking that I'd have much more respect for the "keep everything on lockdown"ers if they had the: (1) awareness to understand that their soft circumstances are not universally enjoyed by all; (2) the wisdom and courage not to lash out for someone to blame every time another 80 year old dies from a contagious virus; and (3) the personal fortitude to tolerate a little risk for the greater good of millions."
#1 is easy: that's why we all want to see the economy opened up, ASAP. And instead of making excuses, hold accountable leadership for making it happen. It's the hypocritical position that "we should open everything up, complete lack of effective leadership doesn't matter" position I have trouble with. If this were Obama, and a month ago he'd said everyone who needs a test can have one, and a month later there's still no clear date when we can make the transition, people would be going apeshit -- and rightfully so.
#2 is easy also. I'm not blaming anyone every time another 80 year old dies. I'm saying, hold leadership accountable for what they promise, and what we voted them in for.
#3 is easy also -- you're exactly right, accept a short-term personal sacrifice to keep the health system from being overrun, and be thankful the majority had the wisdom to take the right steps that will keep the death toll possibly under 100,000. Be thankful we're holding leadership accountable for being prepared to loosen the lockdown, in a way that doesn't give us a huge bounce and force us to close it back down.
Have the guts and intellectual honesty to hold leadership accountable for the whole reason that they're there. If you give one fuck about the economy, that's the way to get there.
discussion comment
4 years ago
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rickduganVerified and Certifiable Super-Reviewer
I'd have more respect for the "open the economy right now"ers if they would have the courage to point to whom they think is accountable for setting up the conditions by which we exit the lockdown, point out where the shortcomings are, and hold that person accountable.
discussion comment
4 years ago
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rickduganVerified and Certifiable Super-Reviewer
"So, the decision is to keep the lockdown in place until a vaccine is mass produced which is untenable OR have mass exposure which is also untenable. "
Agree. But a plan to set conditions for when and how to reduce the lockdowns, along with a well-coordinated effort (with the solid leadership that requires) to meet those conditions, it's what's required to break the stalemate you describe. As it is, we have an idea of what some of those conditions are -- e.g., testing and tracing at scale, after we've reached the peak (testing at scale does not mean all hundreds of millions of Americans need a test -- there are well known target groups). If Obama had claimed a month ago "anyone who needs a test, can get a test", and a month later this was not only not true but there was still no reliable prediction on when it might be true, and in addition he had powers he could invoke to change the path but refused to do so, the "open the economy" people would be going absolutely apeshit. Rightfully so -- this is a national emergency, the president is accountable for leading us out of it, and the achievable goal of "enough tests so that we can be ready for testing & tracing when it's time" is not there. In a way, the right's refusal to hold Trump accountable for this, and instead excuse it away, is sort of a right-wing version of the left's vapid virtue signaling.
discussion comment
4 years ago
I definitely agree the lockdown can't last forever -- hard to believe it could go 2 more months, even. The strategy all along has been to flatten the curve to prevent the health system from collapsing, while we identify and reach the conditions by which we can loosen up the lockdown. It's the second part of this -- reaching the conditions by which we loosen the lockdown -- that need some real focus. One of the big conditions has been: once the curve flattens, be in a position to test and trace, pretty much universally. If you care about the economy at all, you should be screaming to hold leadership accountable, and incensed at the lack of progress. South Korea has had testing at scale for how long? How long ago did the president say "anyone who wants a test can get a test"? (spoiler: a month ago) and we're not even close to that yet. I expected the people who were screaming the loudest to re-open the economy quickly, to also be the ones screaming the loudest about holding the president accountable for focusing all efforts on the conditions that would make this possible more quickly. But they tend to be the ones who least hold the president accountable. It doesn't compute. The curves are starting to flatten. How close are we to meeting the conditions to open back up?
discussion comment
4 years ago
Ah, that's the reason I can't see the link either, ublock got it. I have site filtering on my phone (android) but it actually let me onto the link, so ublock is definitely tougher. the maps were interesting - no slide show on my phone
discussion comment
4 years ago
I think the Chinese government is absolutely an negative influence in the world, well beyond what most people realize. I'm not particularly fond of a culture that breeds things like those wet markets, etc., either. But none of that justifies going full conspiratard. The genome has been sequenced for a long time, and any number of experts have said it's unlikely to have been engineered or weaponized. Maybe that'll change, maybe not, but going conspiratard means you lose all credibility or right to be part of the conversation, leave it to the broader scientific community to determine if it's been "tweaked", don't handpick your sources. There is actually a good chance China will be held responsible politically (to a small extent) and economically (to a larger one -- moving manufacturing out of China is part of nearly every company's business plan now, and the Japanese have brilliantly added incentives for their companies to move out of China in the form of incentives in their covid19 relief bills, something every country should be doing).
discussion comment
4 years ago
If "restart the economy" means any kind of significant change to the lockdown, that's a pipe dream. If "restart the economy" means that there might be small tentative steps in areas of states that are particularly not hard hit, then maybe -- that hardly deserves the phrase "restart the economy" though.
discussion comment
4 years ago
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CJKent (Banned)“The more a person needs to be right, the less certain he is...”
Right -- but the context of this conversation is not "how to help people in hospitals right now", but "what would it take to end the lockdowns". I'm pointing out that there's a lot of things that can happen before we have a vaccine in a year+. If I were a betting man, I'd bet we'd have one or more drug treatments well before there's a vaccine, and that's what will trigger broad relaxing of the lockdowns and social distancing, well before we have a vaccine.
discussion comment
4 years ago
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CJKent (Banned)“The more a person needs to be right, the less certain he is...”
There was also a study recently shut down because the side effects were so harsh, although that was with chloroquine rather than hydroxychlorquine.