discussion comment
17 years ago
Although I think there are good arguments both ways, the more I think about it I'd probably again be a "busybody" under similar circumstances. The old "do unto others as you would have them do unto" rule especially where there isn't a substantial risk that there will be police and courts and lawyers and etc.
I believe her theft hurts the other dancers in the pocket book. Customers not feeling as free to just let the songs roll or buy them in the first place.
And, I think it hurts the dancers as far as work environment. The customers, many of them, are bad enough without potentially increasing and creating more abusive customers. And, some of the dancers at Angels have expressed a belief that the actions of one dancer can effect them all negatively---the one dancer can't just think what is best for her, iows. She needs to think about the larger context.
SuperDude already explained how it may protect future customers. Of course, the argument that the normal rules of society don't apply in a stripclub is true to a *certain* extent, but those rules aren't dumped entirely, imo. Overcounting dances or doubling the price after the fact doesn't, imo, have any special protected status in a stripclub nor can I see why it should be protected. It seems to be an overall negative for both customers and dancers.
The customer DID appreciate my being a "busybody" and if he didn't then more likely than not I would just consider him amusing. I can see him saying "How dare you watch my dances." Hello buddy, you don't wish to be observed in the public area there VIP rooms and also more discrete areas of the club. :)
Hopefully, things will work out ok between me and the "injured" dancer. :)
discussion comment
17 years ago
Hi SuperDude,
I was watching the game unfold in slow motion and positioned myself to get the drop if necessary. I was in my car in the parking lot and I noticed the thief because of his body language as he was walking toward the van. Like the stripper with the "chip on her shoulder," I notice certain behaviour that is just a "little" different or suspicious. The van was locked and out comes the slim jim and it was like WOW! that was smooth (he did have some trouble getting the van started--only at the "last" moment did it turn over). At this point it was like do I want to get involved? And, the answer is NO, however, I'm going to watch it unfold just in case there is the unlikely event things go bad--like the owner showing up. I'm armed and actually although I've been normally well treated by the police my faith in the system is way below zero. Also, it is difficult for most people to understand . . . if the police treat you well 18 or 19 times out of 20 that really isn't too good! (Hint: If the police say you're guilty, then pray for a good plea deal.) Like I had told one officer, "I'm going to get a fair trial in America?" Surprisingly, he didn't think I would. But, it didn't make *any* difference because of course I was guilty in his opinion and I in "theory" was guilty of "technical" violations (felonies), but nothing in the moral sense and truly the officer didn't care about the "technicals" (and there were "racial" problems even though I'm white). Those (technicals) were just a means to an ends. Anyway, I was far more concerned with the police than with some potentially armed car thief. And, if I was pro-active instead of hoping the van owner didn't show then it is a relatively easy situation. Over confident, yes, but still very wary. If I believe in the courts, then I will act and hopefully the thief doesn't force me to fire. Anyway, good courts or bad courts I can see it argued that you have NO business "taking the law into your own hands." LOL! :) I was brainwashed when young to do unto others as you would have them do unto you or something like that. So, I really wanted to do the "right" thing . . . the "right" thing being what I would want someone to do if I was the van owner, which would be STOP the thief with minimal force.
BTW, obeying the law isn't necessarily the "right" thing, imo. Many people can't comprehend that.
As far as the dancer, I was turned off from getting the dances that I had planned to buy. Now, I'm thinking some dance purchases if she is available and willing might help smooth things over and help her think more positively. :) Not too bright? :)
discussion comment
17 years ago
I prefer wanna dance if she is attractive. :)
discussion comment
17 years ago
Oops, I wanted to address the creepy part and so forgot about the rest of the post!
Very interesting and good points. Glad it wasn't as clear cut among posters as I thought it would be! :)
discussion comment
17 years ago
Hi chandler,
I would agree that about the creepy part. :) But, she with her "chip on her shoulder" combined with the approach by the rookie combined with with her very sensual dances had me ALL EYES. :) And, I was counting the dances because I wanted to approach her for dances since she was doing such a good job. Yes, you might not think that makes sense. But, if I see something special I will start counting to get some idea when they might be done. The record so far is something like 22 dances! LOL! Yes, I counted and enjoyed watching and I grabbed her as soon as she was finished. She actually said she needed to clean up first and then gave me the same type dances. :) She didn't last long unfortunately.
discussion comment
17 years ago
>>>"Of course, it might have been possible for nice, well behaved girls to pioneer modern public stripping or for nice, considerate men to force strip clubs into existence against all odds, but it wouldn't have been bloody likely, and the fact is that that's simply not the way things like that get done."<<<
Excellent point. Sort of like would we be able to enjoy a cold beer if not for murderous criminals "standing up" or "fighting back" against the government. I think the stripclub business is a better example where not so "nice" people paved the right of way so to speak.
discussion comment
17 years ago
>>>"That's what makes it such a wuss move for you to continuously snipe at them from TUSCL."<<<
Well, my 1 cent opinion is that it isn't a "wuss move" because the other site doesn't, imo, tolerate opposing views. The author himself may be "moderated" i.e. silenced or his thread may be stop dead. Whatever, censored boards are fine if you like that . . .
discussion comment
17 years ago
"Sad but true. I'm really turning into a misogynist."
That's depressing. :( OTOH, maybe it will draw hot women to you! :) With the relief available at stripclubs it seems like just being yourself and meeting lots of "normal" women and making friends with some would naturally lead to a good connection. When I was young my biggest problem was that I was too desperate, but paid relief (for me) just eliminated that and you can be friends not caring if more is on the way. IOWs, it levels the playing field and even better you are more likely to be the real you which in turns increases the chance of a real match with a "normal" woman. Another benefit is that if she is prone to use sex as weapon, then you have other options hopefully conveniently located.
discussion comment
17 years ago
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Book GuyI write it like I mean it, but mostly they just want my money.
Hi Book Guy,
I've been blessed to have nice people from time to time do more than they should have for me. Sometimes I was fortunate to be able to more than return the favor.
The nice people had such a powerful impact on my life and not all of it positive, surprisingly. Yes, that probably sounds very strange. A young girl gives you her heart and that can be twisted into a negative for the person who was honored to receive her love? There is a saying about no good deed goes unpunished . . . :( sometimes that is true too.
Anyway, I rather look at the positive effects of nice people. :) Sometimes I will be thinking about not helping someone who really doesn't need much help, but then I remember the nice people in my life and more often than not I will help. And, it will have been the right course of action. And, yes sometimes you can get taken advantage of which isn't a big deal for me usually. :)
discussion comment
17 years ago
Hi clubber,
Most of her problems may have been self-induced depending on how you look at that and what the facts of the case are. Her personality is to "fight back." There is that old tangle web we weave story, which sometimes works out in reality. The very good message being don't take the wrong road even if at first it doesn't seem so bad because one thing can lead to another to another to something really terrible.
It can work in *positive* reverse too. :) A person can do a good deed for me and then I will remember that and not only return the favor if possible, but be more willing to care and help other people.
It also works in *negative* reverse. :( I get screwed by the courts, then I become very negative and distrustful. If someone needs my help that involves stopping a real crime (for example a van is being ripped-off in front of the owner), then I may figure gee it wouldn't take too much for me to stand up to the theif. In fact, that would be my knee jerk reaction. Try and stop the crime and help the victim. That poor victim may not be able to afford the loss of his van that is being stolen right in front of his eyes. The police aren't going to arrive in time most likely and the victim isn't in a position to do anything. Oops, there is a real complication at least in my mind. The system is extremely bad, ime, and getting involved not only brings risk to me (if the risk was just from the criminal that isn't going to slow me down in that one case even a little) from the system (yes, you definitely place yourself at risk even just being a good samaritan and returning a purse LOL!), but *far worse is the risk to the criminal.* Sounds twisted doesn't it? And, it should. :) After all the criminal choose his lot by stealing a van that didn't belong to him. He deserves whatever punishment is dealt out by the courts. Does he? Whatever punishment? even if it included chopping his hands off or perhaps 20 years in prison? Some people would easily say YES!!! To those people not only wouldn't I want to stop the theif, but heck I'd be rooting for him! :)
Anyway, it appeared that the victim lost his van. Who knows how much it really hurt him if in fact he ultimately lost the van. There could have been a child left in the van for god's sakes!!! :( Who knows and besides "I should mind my own business" "don't burden others." The victim sure as hell will never know that it all could turned out *probably* much more positively at least for him. The van and its contents would most likely have been immediately back in his possession. Of course, you never know how willing a criminal is to fight back, but he appeared scared to death----just of the owner! LOL! :)
Anyway, do I feel bad about that? Yes. Would I do things differently if I had another chance? No. In the future will I come to the rescue if capable? To save someone's property HELL NO if it will lead to contact with the system and that might be the correct course of action even if the system was wonderful. The old let the police handle it. :)
discussion comment
17 years ago
Hi SuperDude,
No, he thanked me a few times and was very happy though still "recovering" i.e. that rip-off came from left field. I *may* have saved other guys from rip-offs at that club from that *one* dancer. (Heck, I even still get ripped off "small" amounts sometimes--but, I think that I'm to blame for not being "stronger" or whatever.) In a $5 club it is a little bit of the Wild West like the customer pointed out so who knows what will happen next.
The final chapter or chapters still haven't been written. I don't want to see her go and I doubt the manager or other dancers want to see her go. Having said that payback against me is not out of the question. She may "fight back" without warning at who knows what future date. She may see me as a horrible person and part of the system.
Perhaps worse it may just transfer and or increase the problem else where and to someone else. She has a chip on her shoulder that for me at least was very easy to see. The "rookie" didn't see it even a little bit.
If I had perceived the customer in a negative light, then I most likely wouldn't have done anything. Of course, she might not have tried anything and if she did she could be in for a rude awakening depending on what type of negative the customer is.
discussion comment
17 years ago
Hi parodyman,
Doing mind reading again? :)
discussion comment
17 years ago
It is funny the mature lady friend that I like so much is financially secure. She told me one thing she liked about me is that I didn't seem to have any interest in her money. I told her that she is a woman and that I didn't think a man should be asking her for a penny and she sure as hell shouldn't offer, period! (There are a very few exceptions; she doesn't fit any of them.) If he does for any reason (not just money--resources like going to movies or dinner at her expense, etc., then she needs to be rid of him immediately, imho.
I just don't think like that. If she wants that or someone else wants that, then fine. I don't any part of that. Heck, I might only be able to afford Burger King and if that isn't good enough find someone else who has more money for you. Actually, we don't have that problem because I'm not dating her and just wouldn't want to be anything, but friends. She is a good friend. :) Now, if only she was a hot 18 year old wanting to earn a little money. ;)
discussion comment
17 years ago
Hi Jpac73,
Yes, I really need that physical contact or at least I think I need it. :) The alternatives don't look attractive. A real girlfriend? I can't see that at all even if she was young and hot---maybe especially if she was young and hot. :) An old and hot just wouldn't appeal to me. :( As far as friendship, yes that is nice. I have a mature lady friend, but I don't want physical contact from her. She is like a regular buddy--she could be a man as far as the way I see her. She isn't bad looking and keeps herself in shape. She is educated and intelligent.
A prostitute? That would be ok if I had a screener--for looks--who I trusted and more importantly I don't think there is any budget for prostitutes. Heck, I'm cutting down on the stripclub visits and dances. And, even with money I think the health would force my hand. I'm going today and it is just plain stupid and brain dead and idiotic because I will have trouble making it to the car. But, I have no one to blame, but myself for that one. Sometimes people actually deserve to get kicked in the teeth and this is one of those times. :(
discussion comment
17 years ago
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Book GuyI write it like I mean it, but mostly they just want my money.
Hi FONDL,
Actually, I think not caring about other people has become epidemic in our society. I remember people genuinely caring many times and not only caring willing to help *IF* you were willing to help yourself.
Instead what we have now is a society if you're doing well who gives a fuck about what the government is doing to your neighbor. Just wave your filthy flag and chant this is the greatest country on earth.
You don't want to know, then definitely don't listen. However, if by some tiny chance you might need my help---I don't believe that would ever be the case---don't be surprised if I'm bored or indifferent and that I won't even call for help. Ain't my business.
Actually, I like people who mind their own and don't give a damn about me as long as I'm free from a whole host of nasty intrusions and mandates. You know the old days where the government basically let you fend for yourself, but better than that they basically left you *alone*. :)
discussion comment
17 years ago
Hi casualguy,
I've been driving different cars for years that I didn't own. In the latest case the friend wanted a new car, but didn't want to lose his old car. He had become attached to it.
It was funny a friend let me borrow his car and started apologizing before he even handed over the keys! :) He is doing me a huge favor and yet has some wacked out idea that he needs to apologize to the person he is doing the favor for!? Talk about completely crazy---he got screwed by the courts also, BIG TIME!!! :(
Anyway, he let me borrow his old Ford--don't remember the model--he had just paid it off about a month earlier and was very ***PROUD*** that he had paid his debt off in full. Like he has won the Super Bowl or something magnificent. He HATED the car though (for very good reason, I later learned). :( As luck would have it at the same time he made his final car payment he got a beautiful ray of sunshine amongst gloom and doom and terror of an incredibly evil corrupt court system. The beautiful ray of sunshine? A dream job from a medium sized company that he was well qualified to do. The boss and him just seem to hit off as did he and the co-workers. A brand new red sports car at company expense?! Proof positive in his opinion that there must be a God who said this poor guy has wrongly suffered enough. He needs a little help from the man in the Heavens. He says to me "What other explanation could there be for all this good fortune falling into my lap!??? It is God saving me. Honestly. God knows how much abuse you can take and if you believe he will save you. A red sports car AT COMPANY EXPENSE? That has to be the Lord's work. :)" It wouldn't occur to him that busting his butt, sending out resumes, getting qualified, making an excellent impression at the interview, working hard in the past, etc. etc. etc. had some small minor remote role. Oh well, he was a sweet guy and really didn't push his religion that hard. His story to the best of my knowledge ended very happy with complete freedom from the abuse of a vile corrupt evil stupid insane court system.
***Did he "blame the system"? Actually, he did. :) He blamed it a lot, whine, whine, whine (almost 10% as bad as me) and he was 100% correct. Better than that he did try positive approaches to try and reform the system. He wasn't lazy at all. He got working with some Christian politician and of course lots of work, but the fraud and corruption not even dented. Screw reform! :) My other "reform minded" buddy who called and is still working for one modest reform or another, I told him that very thing just a few days ago, plus I don't give a damn one way or the other----good or bad. :) He is one of these God will save you types also, but even less preachy----supposedly according to the vile government he was involved in some serious drug traffic----of course, I don't know that he was innocent, but in years and years and years of knowing him he seems more like a paternalist. The government needs to tell you what to do, what to think, what to consume, all for your own well being and healthy happy families. Drugs = BAD!!! Government needs to be protector in all respects for everyone. :(
Strip clubs for these 2 buddies? Well, the man with the red sports car believes you can only have fun with a woman AFTER marriage and you're only supposed to have one marriage and one wife. Not a good candidate. He says do the stippers want to get and stay married? ;) The other man would be like do the strippers want to reform the system? He was banging this lady that I know *for free* and she says he could be a porn star, but all he cares about is politics. She says I care about politics too, but not 24 hours a day. She says to me tell him I'm available *anytime any hour* if he doesn't want to talk politics. :) He sure as heck doesn't look like a porn star and he also believes looks are irrelevant. Must be in the Bible somewhere.
discussion comment
17 years ago
Hi parodyman,
Think of it like Spinach. ;)
discussion comment
17 years ago
Hi parodyman,
Somewhere I have hundreds of plastic license plates with a rebus that you might appreciate. (I don't, btw. I really don't appreciate the idea at least.) I do love rebuses, however. :)
It is a white plate with black drawings. There is a large martini glass with an olive, then there is a + sign, a steering wheel, then there is an = sign. After the = sign there is a poor man behind bars. :(
Essentially, the message of the rebus is drinking plus driving equals prison time. A good number of people seemed to like not only the rebus, but its message/warning.
discussion comment
17 years ago
Hi MIDancer,
Well, I think she actually did like me in her own way. As far as respect?, now that may be a different story. :) More than a few dancers that I've met think it is pathetic for a *man* to pay for a woman's attention or more accurately in most cases to do it over a long period of time. Short term relief? That probably isn't seen as too negative. Thinking running along the lines of men are easy and desperate and until you land the right woman no real harm in a little short time fun or relief.
She probably also thought I was addicted, which was true, and thus, didn't want to take advantage of someone who had that problem. It is like if you know someone can't stop drinking it can quickly get to the point where you don't want to be part of assisting in that. Or maybe, it was more a case that she sees me getting too attached-----well, compared to how I would act without the money as a barrier I'm not that bad. If she or any dancer tells me to go and well it was a fantasy and business relationship so yep I have to go and find a new fantasy. A real relationship? Don't even want to think about it. Some people can't handle booze or drugs? Well, I can't handle a real relationship if the woman decides to end it. More than a few people can't understand that even a little bit. As if love has an easy on/off switch or recovery is just a few weeks or months or years away. Try many years. Not worth the all the good times, imo.
discussion comment
17 years ago
Hi casualguy,
>>>"Different females have different ideas on how every guy is supposed to be."<<<
Yes, like I'm supposed to be crazy about huge breasts or I'm not supposed to care about looks. With all the focus on breasts I can see that, but not caring about looks???
You just want to get into my pants because that is what all guys want is repeated often. Unfortunately, I think it is reasonable for the woman to think I'm feeding her lines and that I can't be serious. I loved the line "Where's the condoms. You ain't getting any for real unless you have a condom." Damn, that girl moved fast and she hadn't believed a word that I told her. She had actually needed a lot of sweet talking to lure over to my place, but once there she was resigned to giving it up. That was a pleasant surprise, btw. :) No work, just served on a platter. :) Unfortunately, I hadn't known her too long. She was skill city top top top notch. The best ever by far as far as skill. :)
discussion comment
17 years ago
Hi SuperDude,
Yes, I think she was trying to be helpful. She sees that I like talking to her and other dancers and gets the wrong idea. Looks aren't very important to her and she may think that looks really aren't important to me and with a lot guys regardless of what they profess looks aren't a top priority. It is all about MILEAGE!!! :) I'm about mileage also, but of the GFE variety--the hardcore doesn't hold too much interest to me usually. Now, if I feel comfortable with the dancer then the hardcore starts to seem very appealing if she'll cooperate. :)
Spending money even knowing the downsides and real limits still makes me happy and that I think just doesn't make any sort sense to her. Yes, I think you're right on target.
discussion comment
17 years ago
Hi Jpac73,
I was going everyday or almost everyday. Yes, I wasn't spending big bucks because I don't have big bucks to budget.
She is a nice person who I got along with well and who I would buy some dances from or sometimes just one dance from. It was easy to look forward to seeing her. At that time I never spent a lot of money. Sometimes just a single dance from one or two dancers was a big deal for me. That is the key in that it was a big deal to me. To the dancer she might be more interested in a positive response than in $5---depending on the dancer. The dancer at The Trap who for the first time ever appreciated my spending only $10 on her (that is money to me), it seemed like the little bit of money either helped her or she just appreciated a positive response i.e. she made a sale.
discussion comment
17 years ago
Hi parodyman,
Actually, you raised a very important point that I think or hope you are already aware of. "[Y]ou are a whiny little man. No one likes that crap." No one likes that crap? Try replacing that with a huge majority doesn't like that crap. :) It sounds more intelligent and may even be true.
*Some* strippers especially love whiny little men and other losers because it seems to bring out a strong mothering instinct. Why have a winner who really doesn't need you when you can have someone that you can nurture and at least try and make happier or save?
discussion comment
17 years ago
Nice joke, but I'd rather deal lions and tigers . . . after some of these pussies get done with me. It is like they don't realize they're supposed to be the weaker sex in addition to being soft and sweet and sexy. :)
discussion comment
17 years ago
The other one was cuter. :) Hell, with those sums investing in the problems of your own little dive might be interesting. ;) OK, unless you're crazy probably not the best of ideas, but I will say that some gold, amateur gold, walks in off the street now and then. When I look at the girls that don't get hired it is like WHAT? We got a bunch o blubber butts and you're letting those honeys leave?! Looks are irrelevant?! Who the hell is the cult leader spreading the looks are irrelevant message? That man is effective. I hear it from dancers, bartenders, customers, friends, it some type of twisted religion or mind control----maybe to turn women into blubber butts?