discussion comment
17 years ago
Hi David9999,
That is a very nice looking car. :) Well, if you had a good time and it was within budget . . . damn, it is difficult to argue against fun unless there is some serious downside. Looking back, I usually regret not spending the money not that I had much to spare. But, I remember the special girls that just don't come around too often and they were a lot more valuable to me than the money. Yes, every once in awhile I got a bad deal. But, it seems so little in comparison that it is like count your blessings. Heck, you can even get a bad deal at Burger King. ;)
I'm surprised so far the girls are winning. :)
discussion comment
17 years ago
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Book GuyI write it like I mean it, but mostly they just want my money.
I've known this dancer for years and years. She doesn't engage in "prostitution" to the best of my knowledge. She is very friendly with me and even gives me "free" dances. Sometimes she would just hang out with me. When she left the business she'd call once in a blue moon just to say hi and catch up a little bit. She got back into the business and still has no interest in "prostitution." Her definition being FS or BJ and all in all I would have to say she is softcore especially by Angel's standards. And, she told me that it wasn't that she hadn't tried prostitution. When she was young she did some tricks and she just didn't like it at all. She says dances are no problem, but for whatever reason she just doesn't want any part of prostitution. Other dancers don't see a dime's worth of difference, btw.
Anyway, years into my knowing her, she had shared a recent unhappy event. She was arrested for prostitution. My response (as well as anger that she wasn't selling to me) was that I want you to sell to me! :) Generally, my interest in that is fairly low unless I've known the dancer a while and like her. Sorry, I'm not one of those stick it in any hole guys. Of course, the arrest brought her tons of grief. That is one purpose of government. Anyway, she says NO NO you don't understand I'm innocent! I said really? She says yes it was just a sweep and police were just picking out girls at random and arresting them. So it is a depressing story and I could relate to it because of my experience. I told her that imo it didn't make a bit of difference if she was innocent or guilty because the system was basically fraudulent and bloodthirsty. Better just get a plea deal and pay whatever penalties the government wants.
Her story made me feel even closer to her. Now many people believe in this system. Do I respect their belief? Hell NO. I've experienced the filth first hand. And, it isn't just my little nothing case. I watched other cases as well. Do I have any interest in convincing other people that the system is garbage? I don't think it is possible. I'm not even sure if the person gets screwed whether they would "blame the system." There isn't any real incentive other than to vent and cry in spilled milk. IOWs, it isn't a "good plan" if you want to be happy and popular and successful. :)
Well, I know my whimpering and hatred for the system isn't going to change anything and will only make "flag wavers" as well as reasonable people unhappy. So why do it? I guess that is part of being unsuccessful. My former boss had this nutty idea that I could always earn more money if money was truly important. LOL! I said, why on earth would I do that when it is so easy for the courts to steal your hard earned money with out any type of real due process. (BTW, I am familar with "legal" methods of attempting to protect one's wealth and discussed same with different attorneys. The key isn't legal protections because you can't trust the judge to obey the law--somehow the identity needs to be completely sealed without creating another pile of messes.) Yes, I received years in the courts but truly not a drop of due process. A total fraud. My former boss points to himself! I said yes, but compared to your wealth the money that was stolen was nothing! He says it makes no difference he still suffered a theft at the hands of the courts. Whatever.
I guess that makes us even--I don't have sympathy for the money he had stolen and he doesn't have sympathy (he says he does) for the money I had stolen.
discussion comment
17 years ago
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Book GuyI write it like I mean it, but mostly they just want my money.
Depends on what the plan is. If the plan is money making or even happiness, then I agree it is a "bad plan."
I like people who I can relate to. If other people had similar experiences growing up, then I feel we share something important in common. For example, I'm not supposed to fear poverty. The problem is the people that tell me that have more money then they know what to do with! Most of the people I know who actually experienced poverty feel closer to the way I feel.
My former boss who I think very highly of--intelligent, strong, nice, winner, etc.--has NO sympathy for my fears. He claims I don't need money. Well, I don't need lots and lots of money because for the most part my tastes are simple simon. I think if I had tons of money that I would still prefer Angels to Tootsies in a landslide. I don't know that because I don't have lots money. I don't even really care to find out. I definitely need some money and I consider money to be my god--it isn't everyone's god, btw.
OK, I hope that made a little bit of sense at least. :)
discussion comment
17 years ago
Oh, he liked stripclubs! :) But, he didn't want the women getting close to him. Of course, he liked gay porn as well. I guess he just liked naked adult bodies. To the best of my knowledge he had NO interest in children.
discussion comment
17 years ago
Hi Book Guy,
The key word is *most*. I don't know what most gay men are really after concerning sex. I do know that some gay men, or at least they think or claim to be gay, not only like other adult males, but like young boys as well.
Heck, I even knew a gay male, deceased, who started out liking females. But, he developed an extreme fear of females. Anyway, almost all of his lovers were male. He was attracted to females more than males, but didn't think they could be trusted. He had developed a "close" relationship with his secretary and she was sweet and hot. He wanted marriage and a family with her, but was just too afraid. He knew males would treat him right. It was the females who weren't trust worthy. He even thought about paying a woman to have his children, but again fear ruled. He thought she'd use the courts to deprive him of seeing his children or that he end up in a financially draining legal battles. He told me bottom line he would rather have a traditional family and that maybe that meant he wasn't really gay even though he thought he was gay.
discussion comment
17 years ago
The OLD Angels was very unfriendly. Money wasn't the issue. I liked that club because of the lack of manners and similar backgounds. It was mind blowing that people from outside the culture would want anything to do with the club. In fact, most would leave ASAP which was wonderful. You want a place where you can relax and be extreme--usually depressed and not doing much. :) I remember this one nice dancer (most people wouldn't consider her nice in the least) telling me you can't be unhappy every single day. I replied with disgust with something like drop dead or go to hell or something worse. Actually we were friends although I never spent any money on her. And, to outsiders it would seem I wasn't being nice to her . . . yet she considered me too nice. :)
discussion comment
17 years ago
OK, I received your message and it seems like there was NO problem replying to you.
So, it looks like problem fixed. :)
discussion comment
17 years ago
Hi founder,
Yes, I had difficulty sending a message. I received it just fine, but when I attempted to send it I received the message that I had to upgrade to VIP status.
One other thing that has happened. As I type my text will disappear and then thankfully reappear. It makes think that all the typing was for naught (sp?). Now, even without typing the text disappeared for a moment. That was different.
Thank you for replying. :)
discussion comment
17 years ago
Correction: allegedly due to the doctor's fear of the DEA.
discussion comment
17 years ago
Actually, even if I had a *low opinion* of a particular stripper I would still care to some degree like 1%? or 5%?. Some very small amount of caring.
The woman that I was thinking of isn't even a stripper. I detest her and her father, who was an elected official. Perhaps detest isn't a strong enough word. Loathe; despise. IOWs, were not buddies. :) It comes from a dispute surrounding the word "voluntary." In her opinion and her father's opinion a person can never complain of being forced as long as your actions are "voluntary." For example, if you put a knife to a woman's throat and threaten to carve her up or kill her unless she provides you with sex, the woman can't complain because her submission was "voluntary." As the woman explained if someone put a knife to her throat or started carving her up she is still free to say NO!; thus, if she decides sex is better than being carved up or being killed she has made her bed and she NO right to complain that she didn't have a choice. The sickness extends to the idea of "personal responsibility." The woman has to take responsibility for her actions (submitting to the rape or not to) just as the rapist has to take responsibility for his actions.
How did we get into a discussion of "voluntary." There was a talk show many years ago where they had a tax protester and an IRS spokesman. Surprisingly, both stated that filing an income tax return was "voluntary." Unfortunately, the IRS idea of "voluntary" was even if there was a death penalty or 30 years in prison as a penalty for failure or refusal to file an income tax return it was still "voluntary." My thought at the time was what a sicko and that probably isn't even the government's position. Tell these tax protesters in simple English that filing an income tax is required by law and that it isn't "voluntary" in any true sense of the word. There are real penalties! Don't confuse the damn "simpletons." Yes, a handful of people could probably stand up against rape and choose to be carved up or killed, but that hardly means submitting to the rape was "voluntary." In same manner, I'm sure there are people who don't mind or can stand up to whatever punishments the government dishes out, but that hardly makes compliance "voluntary." Those who believe it is and that you have NO right to complain or object, I have an extreme contempt for. And, who knows there may be a lot more people who believe in that than not.
discussion comment
17 years ago
I don't care for the question either, but that is only because I can't brag. :) Anyway, $400 doesn't sound cheap to me. :)
Anyway, imho, ask whatever questions you want even if some people think it is in "poor taste."
$600 for a typical strip club visit sounds very generous. I wonder if you're hanging out at my local dive handing out $20s like they were singles? :) Those guys were impressive.
discussion comment
17 years ago
Hi parodyman,
I'm just a "wind bag" when writing. :) Well, ok I'm occasionally a wind bag with the spoken word.
discussion comment
17 years ago
Hi David9999,
Actually that does make a lot of sense. :) Not a universal rule by any means, but it seems caring (or being nice) is perceived as a negative by a good many dancers. And, if you think about it from their perspective it might make a lot more sense.
discussion comment
17 years ago
Also interesting, gay is not accepted at all in his family if it involves adult males. That is a major problem. His father told him it would have been better if he (the son) had just killed him rather than destroy the family honor. You want a boy? No problem. You want another adult male? Huge problem. I also seem to recall there was some religious angle to all of this, but they were supposedly Christians.
Seems weird in the extreme. One positive is that there was a lot of love in his family----too much actually in that I think they definitely could have done without having sex with young boys.
discussion comment
17 years ago
Perhaps an adult who thinks the child is having a good time? A gay friend said he loved being sexually used by male relatives, but he did have problems in that he thought the experience might have made him gay. I said, but you say you're happy being gay. He said yes, he is happy, but he'd love to have children in a traditional family--he had almost zero interest in women. Interestingly, he didn't want the child to be having any sex. It made NO difference that he enjoyed the sex he received as a child. Pleasure wasn't the issue nor was guilt. He didn't think a child knew enough to make an important decision like. He felt the child, male or female, should at least be developed somewhat physically and even then he thought more traditional fun was better at least at first. If the child is gay, then don't rush it he will learn on his own.
discussion comment
17 years ago
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Book GuyI write it like I mean it, but mostly they just want my money.
Hi David9999,
The way he described it, it sounded like total heaven. It wasn't cheap, however. It was for wealthier people. And, you had to look presentable. Comfortable expensive clothes fine, but don't be looking like you belong on a construction crew or even middle class. He said the way they did things took all night and basically it was one girl would have one customer for the night or you could go crazy and get more than one girl for the whole night. It wasn't a brothel at least for whites and maybe not for asians either, but who knows.
Looking back, I almost regret not accepting his very nice offer. He was a loveable guy, but even so I'd rather a wealthy friend hang out with me at some place I can afford.
discussion comment
17 years ago
One reviewer may honestly feel a club is a 10----NO matter it is a shitty dive. Another reviewer may feel a club is a 1.
My 2 cent opinion is that it would have been more helpful if you rated the club any which way you felt. Which you did! :)
That club that you rated a 1, is probably a club that I would have rated a 10 assuming it was very low cost. I'm on a fairly tight budget and what I care about is hot girls at low prices. I'd honestly rate most of these gentlemen's clubs a 1. Just too expensive for me to have any fun at.
discussion comment
17 years ago
Hi gatorjoe2,
Well, Shadowcat seems to have found a slice of heaven at his favorite club. The dances there are normally $20, which again that is a little steep for me. But, he has a 2 for 1 dealy worked out and it sounds like everyone is a winner.
I'm not that much into negotiation and I knew that I was out of my league. Now, if there was a Shadowcat assisting at that club who was in charge of excellent deals then who knows how much money I may have spent. The hottest woman was a bartender, but she wanted to keep her clothing on.
Experiences on different days or nights can be very different depending on the club-----on a different day it may have been easier to get clear dance price information. The assistant manager wanted me to talk with the bouncers or individual dancers. I didn't have much interest in talking with dancers unless I'm willing to buy and talking price upfront (before I've wasted a good amount of her time) just isn't appealing. I need the price information beforehand and then I'll think about negotiations.
I did in the past get some good dance prices negotiated at Club Diamonds (haven't bought dances there in years). I wish I could pay everyone full price and more! :)
discussion comment
17 years ago
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Book GuyI write it like I mean it, but mostly they just want my money.
There was an asian "kissing" club over on 163rd Street; a long time back. The young guy who told me about it and invited me along (at his expense; I didn't go, but definitely wanted to) was from an very wealthy family.
He considered himself to be abused. He basically had a blank check and was spending it on expensive prostitutes and LSD. I had met him in a disgusting drug den. He was amazed that I didn't have any interest in drugs seeing as how I was in a "bad" area and in a very rough place. Somehow he thought it was reasonable for him of the upper class to be in a filthy drug den, but that a poor person such as myself shouldn't be there???
Anyway, he was such a sweet guy. He just wanted to spread happiness and party. The two real negative areas were that he had family problems and his drug use, imo, seemed out of control. He was telling me that he needed happiness. That there was no point in living if people couldn't be happy. Every day should be a party. I said where is the money coming from? He says most of the really good stuff is free i.e. woman and drugs, if not for the government. We needed to preach and practice love. :) He was definitely a lovable person, but I couldn't handle his increasing "drug abuse."
I met his family. Nothing was too good for their son, but they were ice people. They viewed the world as a very predatory place. Enslave or be enslaved, kill or be killed, cheat or be cheated, love was a weakness that should be outgrown except for love of family. He says to me, you see how "evil" they are? Unfortunately, I did see . . . and I saw a huge amount of love for him and the other family members. They were just so cold blooded when it came to outsiders. He on the other hand really wanted to treat everyone like they were good. He just couldn't understand how his family could be so cold and ruthless when it came to other people.
discussion comment
17 years ago
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Book GuyI write it like I mean it, but mostly they just want my money.
Hi Book Guy,
Hardship is relative. To some people that means that they were denied the latest $150 sneakers. Yes, it is difficult for me to relate to because it seems extravagent. I never felt deprived wearing the cheapest sneakers and in fact I happened to prefer the cheap brand. I didn't feel bad at all about wearing used clothing if it fit and was comfortable. Now, I did become very unhappy when the clothing or shoes were too small (too large and I'd keep my mouth shut or complain very little; fear of getting clobbered or worse getting too small clothing in replacement). I didn't care about not getting new toys. Someone else's discarded toys could be fine. (That doesn't mean I liked all toys, btw. I just didn't care if they were used.)
Anyway, someone else living the same experience may feel extremely depressed and perhaps even abused. I get extremely depressed when I get ripped off by those who are supposed to be protecting my rights. Another person, it might not bother at all. My former boss got ripped off and it did bother him, but he doesn't blame the system or society. Who knows if I was 10 percent as wealthy as him, then I might feel the same way.
Anyway, it seems like you know a very different class of dancer than I do. It is a $5 club so maybe girls working at those clubs generally had it harder than the dancers at the more expensive clubs. Sometimes the dancers' sad stories are worse than mine and sometimes what they describe just doesn't sound too bad----they consider it bad. One dancer had a dream of not getting second hand toys just once, but she says it was always somebody else's toy; never new. That was important to her and maybe it is important to other poor children. For me, it wasn't a problem at all.
discussion comment
17 years ago
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Book GuyI write it like I mean it, but mostly they just want my money.
Hi FONDL,
Getting back off thread subject I'd like to bore you with my health problems and again blame a rotten shitty society. Yes, I'm probably being harsh. Who knows, I might even be completely crazy. :)
I have a foot and knee problem (mainly the foot), which can severly limit me. I complained to the podiatrist that I wasn't getting the painkillers that I needed. She at least had a reasonable sounding response for me. She said that when my foot hurts even a little that she wants me to get off it and stay off it immediately. So I tell her OK. But, what about when I'm off the foot and in extreme pain? Pain so bad that I can't even get to sleep. She says well, the risk is that if you don't feel the pain you will be tempted to get up. That is true--If I don't feel the pain, then yes I will be tempted to do just a little work. Basic housekeeping. As it stands, I'm afraid to do even a little work because the pain surfaces and then I follow doctor's orders and get off the foot. Seems like I can't blame the society here can I? Maybe not, but I wonder if the doctor would feel the same way if the government wasn't engaged in an endless drug war.
I thought the foot and knee pain was bad. No, back pain is worse. I shouldn't say that. Both are real bad once they get going. My solution is that I do less and less, which means I become even sicker over time. A neighbor who is a nurse was telling me that I need to be more active. She never see me working anymore. I tell her that I do, do some work, but I live in fear of hurting myself and then not getting the needed painkillers. She says just keep going to doctors until you find one who doesn't have a problem prescribing pain killers.
I don't know what to do. If the pain keeps getting worse, then I may have no choice but to start doctor shopping. How do you think the vile government will react to that? There may be no reaction at all and I can get the medication that I need. If I do get trapped by this nasty stinking government, then I guess you'll claim that I have no one to blame, but myself? Well, I will repeat: I blame this nasty society. To the best of my knowledge I did nothing to cause the foot, knee, and back problems. I assume it is for me just part of getting old.
To muddy the water a little more, if it is the doctor's honest opinion (excluding addiction concerns) that I just have to live with pain because the alternative is worse, then that is what I would like to do. The problem is with the drug war hysteria brought about by a corrupt government, I don't know if the doctors' opinion is honest or it is just fear speaking for them.
discussion comment
17 years ago
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Book GuyI write it like I mean it, but mostly they just want my money.
Oh yes, when strippers share tales of financial problems again it could be for any reason. I had the opportunity to play white knight at an extremely cheap cost. The woman wasn't a real stripper. It was her first and last day on the job. Anyway, the help she needed was minor and the upfront rewards were major. Did I help? Of course not! First off I'm not a nice guy, but that wasn't the issue. I did want to help her so not caring also wasn't the issue. Fraud? Oh please, it doesn't take too much brain power to structure a safer deal if she is legit. But, getting ripped off even a few hundred wasn't going to cause me to lose a wink of sleep. Sorry, but if the woman is that advanced that she can fool me, then it was money well spent, imo.
No, the reason I didn't play white knight is because she would need constant help, imo. Her looks and personality were imo fantastic. She, imo, would have been dirt cheap at 10 times the cost. I just didn't want the responsibility of taking care of her no matter how wonderful she was and there was a real threat that it could develop into a real relationship. Now, some ignorant strip club veteran might have *assumed* she was just trying to sell a dance. The assumption would often make sense, it is the old one size fits all mentality. I find it repulsive, but if someone believes that every stripper is a clone then the chance of changing that belief system is slim to none.
discussion comment
17 years ago
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Book GuyI write it like I mean it, but mostly they just want my money.
Hi parodyman,
Yes, poor jablake blames society. And, the winner of the lawsuit thinks society is the greatest. She may or may not feel that way if the Florida Supreme Court had decided against her. But, as of right now society is the greatest to her and anyone who is screwed deserves it. Like if she couldn't afford to appeal to the Florida Supreme Court then I assume she would feel that she deserved to be screwed.
You do understand that threads rarely stay on topic? Or, are you just being humorous again.
Anyway, FONDL has this idea that it is wrong to blame society. I say fuck that bullshit. My former boss who is a winner and an honest man believes in the system even after he was screwed by a corrupt legal system. He says to me, see I don't blame the system. Yeah, uh duh he is worth millions and millions. He has the brains and education and came from a monied background. Thus, if he can be successful everyone can and you can't blame the society even if it is corrupt. Would he still feel that way even if he lost every penny? Maybe. He really believes in the individual responsibility bs even where the society is corrupt.
Getting back to the ss. I enjoy it. And, it could be for any reason they share a sad upbring. Surprise, surprise, I have non-stripper women who share painful childhood memories. Maybe they're trying to sell me a dance? LOL! :) Generally, I think when non-stripper women do that it is a form of sharing and a screening device. How does the person hearing the story react? With strippers, I would assume it is often about playing the sympathy card to earn money, but it shouldn't take a lot of brain cells to figure out that different people have different needs. The last thing on the stripper's mind while she was relating her unhappy story may have been selling a dance. She may have wanted to make a connection or she may have just been venting to a person who she thought looked nice and caring or there could be any reason.
Heck, talk with me and I will repeatedly share my story of poverty and getting screwed. Gee, maybe I'm trying to sell a dance? No, I'm just usually venting. I know it won't do any good for me or for the poor souls who read the shit I type. I do hope, however, that someone may say and believe that gee society is to blame when it lets crooked lawyers and judges run wild.
discussion comment
17 years ago
Hi chitownlawyer,
Yes, they even made a novel out of the proverb. http://www.trashfiction.co.uk/melon_ecstasy.html YIKES!!! :)
I guess maybe there is a way for me to be free of stripclubs. It sounds so weird. It probably provides better pillow talk, as well.
discussion comment
17 years ago
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Book GuyI write it like I mean it, but mostly they just want my money.
Correction: Yes, I understand if you *haven't* been ripped off then it is no big deal. I understand that real easy. And, I will blame the garbage society everytime. Apparently, it doesn't like to take responsibility for its frauds and criminality.