Pride in Poverty

Second most common strategy to get you buy dances: make you feel sorry for them. Look these girls know all about taking advantage of us males' innate desire to help out women and be nice guys. Nowadays I just tell them that I don't care.

"Why do strippers feel so free to inform all and sundry of how 'bad off' they had it?" I think a lot of them grew up in homes where the adults spent most of their time whining about how bad they had it. It's become habitual and they think everyone does it. It's a way to avoid taking responsibility for their own lives - they blame society instead.

FONDL,

"...blame society...", what a great idea! I wonder why no one has ever thought of that before.

Seriously, it seems as if no one takes responsibility for their actions any longer!

I definitely blame society. It is a extremely corrupt and brutal. And, worse a bunch morons support these criminals; actually they'd support whatever criminals happen to be in power. Well, maybe not all morons, but they truly must have no clue as to how the system actually works.

My $400 per hour attorney was lecturing on the law. I must have told him 10 times that I believed he was correct and that other attorneys had given me the same exact advice. Where I disagreed was that if a judge wouldn't allow me to have a jury trial, which all the attorneys claimed was my right, then why would the judge feel bound by other legal rules? The response was that in the unlikely event that the judge didn't follow the law there is the right to appeal. Well, the appellate court isn't too impressive, imo. Worse, the trial judge in my case was supposed to be a good judge. Yeah, right . . . a good judge who refuses to give a written opinion with findings of facts and conclusions of law. The whole system is a piece of crooked sh*t. So let me repeat: I blame this nasty corrupt society. I asked the judge exactly what did I do wrong? He says you didn't listen to your attorney. That was completely nutso; my attorney told me that he would only take my case if I agreed it was HIS WAY! I agreed because he is the expert and I wanted success or failure on his shoulders. Believe what you want, but this is truly a corrupt country and I would never *voluntarily* lift a finger to help it or support it or even work to change the garbage.


Oh, later my attorney says the judge is good, but he is from the criminal division and doesn't understand civil law very well. What bullshit, imo.

For the record, I don't mind the stripper telling me her sad story at all. Doesn't matter if it is true of false. If that is what she is selling, then it is the sales job that I'm interested in. BTW, sometimes it is true and a close relationship may ensue.

Who has more value to a stripper with a depressing past? A successful attorney from a wonderful background or some loser with the same background? If money is your god, then I would guess it is the successful attorney. In reality, a stripper may feel much closer and be able to have a more satisfying relationship with the loser. That shouldn't come as any great surprise. Especially, given how many successful people look down their long noses at strippers.

A couple months back, I provided a link to a case where the trial judge decided one way, then the appeals court made a different decision and finally the Florida Supreme Court made yet another decision. The woman that ultimately prevailed believes in the system because she won. I'm so unimpressed. Just as easily she could have lost and been financially devastated for a good 10 years or maybe for life.

What morons can't comprehend is that the case took years of litigation. Morons may ask well what is wrong with years of litigation? Well, for starters none of the courts actually answered the main question which was how did the realtor cause the sale to take place (it was an unusual contract) or would the sale have occurred regardless? Hell, the trial judge said he could rule either way. When he did rule, he failed to address THE ISSUE i.e. how was she the procuring cause? And, the higher courts pulled the same bs. Essentially, you have a case where if a judge spent a single day thinking about the case it would have been outrageous. No, instead years of litigation take place over nothing. The case just wasn't that complex.

I wonder if the woman that won would still be in love with a crooked court system if she lost and was financially destroyed.


Think about it---YEARS to decide if she is the procuring cause as required by the contract. That facts weren't even in dispute! The high point was the judge urging the parties to "split the baby." He said a few times he could rule either way.

As long as I'm blowing off steam:

She wins in the trial court.

Had the money taken away by the appeals court.

Finally, had the money returned by the Florida Supreme Court.


It is so rare the Florida Supreme Court will hear even excellent cases. Normally, she would have been screwed at the (district) appeals court level. I'd be stunned if the Florida Supreme Court heard even 1% of the good cases where they're petitioned for relief. So she got extremely lucky and that is definitely how her attorney felt. Meanwhile the poor bastard on the other side got screwed royally.

Who is to blame? Real easy. A corrupt court system. There is absolutely no freaking excuse for those hoodlum judges to be bouncing the case around for years especially since both sides were agreeable to having the case decided by a judge without a jury trial. The woman that won did have merit, imo, and the man that ultimately got screwed had merit, imo, also. It is just insane and sickening that this case wasn't scheduled for a couple hours with the judge then giving a written decision with findings of fact and conclusions of law. IOWs, cut out the all the years of bs work at hundreds of dollars an hour. The system is a total fraud.

Oh, and in my case I can't even get a jury trial but it still took years of litigation. It wasn't a complex case, either. And, I'm supposed to support or believe in this hoodlum operation? No I'll let the moronic flag wavers do that. They need to get screwed by this corrupt country, but I think they'd still be flag wavers.


Those nitwits in Iraq? Are fighting for my freedoms? LOL! They're fighting for some fat cat judges and crooked politicians to rip people off big time. The country is garbage. :( Yes, I understand if you have been ripped off then it is no big deal. I understand that real easy. And, I will blame the garbage society everytime. Apparently, it doesn't like to take responsibility for its frauds and criminality.

Correction: Yes, I understand if you *haven't* been ripped off then it is no big deal. I understand that real easy. And, I will blame the garbage society everytime. Apparently, it doesn't like to take responsibility for its frauds and criminality.

I wonder if jablake can read? Isn't the topic "Pride in Poverty"? He makes it seem like why is the whole world against poor jablake. No wonder TUSCL has jumped the shark. The participation has shifted from discussion to self-stroking of one's own ego.

Why do they feel the need to tell you all of their life.. Its stripper shit thats why...
I see it everyday, hear a million and one stories..

Hi parodyman,

Yes, poor jablake blames society. And, the winner of the lawsuit thinks society is the greatest. She may or may not feel that way if the Florida Supreme Court had decided against her. But, as of right now society is the greatest to her and anyone who is screwed deserves it. Like if she couldn't afford to appeal to the Florida Supreme Court then I assume she would feel that she deserved to be screwed.

You do understand that threads rarely stay on topic? Or, are you just being humorous again.

Anyway, FONDL has this idea that it is wrong to blame society. I say fuck that bullshit. My former boss who is a winner and an honest man believes in the system even after he was screwed by a corrupt legal system. He says to me, see I don't blame the system. Yeah, uh duh he is worth millions and millions. He has the brains and education and came from a monied background. Thus, if he can be successful everyone can and you can't blame the society even if it is corrupt. Would he still feel that way even if he lost every penny? Maybe. He really believes in the individual responsibility bs even where the society is corrupt.



Getting back to the ss. I enjoy it. And, it could be for any reason they share a sad upbring. Surprise, surprise, I have non-stripper women who share painful childhood memories. Maybe they're trying to sell me a dance? LOL! :) Generally, I think when non-stripper women do that it is a form of sharing and a screening device. How does the person hearing the story react? With strippers, I would assume it is often about playing the sympathy card to earn money, but it shouldn't take a lot of brain cells to figure out that different people have different needs. The last thing on the stripper's mind while she was relating her unhappy story may have been selling a dance. She may have wanted to make a connection or she may have just been venting to a person who she thought looked nice and caring or there could be any reason.

Heck, talk with me and I will repeatedly share my story of poverty and getting screwed. Gee, maybe I'm trying to sell a dance? No, I'm just usually venting. I know it won't do any good for me or for the poor souls who read the shit I type. I do hope, however, that someone may say and believe that gee society is to blame when it lets crooked lawyers and judges run wild.

Oh yes, when strippers share tales of financial problems again it could be for any reason. I had the opportunity to play white knight at an extremely cheap cost. The woman wasn't a real stripper. It was her first and last day on the job. Anyway, the help she needed was minor and the upfront rewards were major. Did I help? Of course not! First off I'm not a nice guy, but that wasn't the issue. I did want to help her so not caring also wasn't the issue. Fraud? Oh please, it doesn't take too much brain power to structure a safer deal if she is legit. But, getting ripped off even a few hundred wasn't going to cause me to lose a wink of sleep. Sorry, but if the woman is that advanced that she can fool me, then it was money well spent, imo.

No, the reason I didn't play white knight is because she would need constant help, imo. Her looks and personality were imo fantastic. She, imo, would have been dirt cheap at 10 times the cost. I just didn't want the responsibility of taking care of her no matter how wonderful she was and there was a real threat that it could develop into a real relationship. Now, some ignorant strip club veteran might have *assumed* she was just trying to sell a dance. The assumption would often make sense, it is the old one size fits all mentality. I find it repulsive, but if someone believes that every stripper is a clone then the chance of changing that belief system is slim to none.

Hi FONDL,

Getting back off thread subject I'd like to bore you with my health problems and again blame a rotten shitty society. Yes, I'm probably being harsh. Who knows, I might even be completely crazy. :)

I have a foot and knee problem (mainly the foot), which can severly limit me. I complained to the podiatrist that I wasn't getting the painkillers that I needed. She at least had a reasonable sounding response for me. She said that when my foot hurts even a little that she wants me to get off it and stay off it immediately. So I tell her OK. But, what about when I'm off the foot and in extreme pain? Pain so bad that I can't even get to sleep. She says well, the risk is that if you don't feel the pain you will be tempted to get up. That is true--If I don't feel the pain, then yes I will be tempted to do just a little work. Basic housekeeping. As it stands, I'm afraid to do even a little work because the pain surfaces and then I follow doctor's orders and get off the foot. Seems like I can't blame the society here can I? Maybe not, but I wonder if the doctor would feel the same way if the government wasn't engaged in an endless drug war.

I thought the foot and knee pain was bad. No, back pain is worse. I shouldn't say that. Both are real bad once they get going. My solution is that I do less and less, which means I become even sicker over time. A neighbor who is a nurse was telling me that I need to be more active. She never see me working anymore. I tell her that I do, do some work, but I live in fear of hurting myself and then not getting the needed painkillers. She says just keep going to doctors until you find one who doesn't have a problem prescribing pain killers.

I don't know what to do. If the pain keeps getting worse, then I may have no choice but to start doctor shopping. How do you think the vile government will react to that? There may be no reaction at all and I can get the medication that I need. If I do get trapped by this nasty stinking government, then I guess you'll claim that I have no one to blame, but myself? Well, I will repeat: I blame this nasty society. To the best of my knowledge I did nothing to cause the foot, knee, and back problems. I assume it is for me just part of getting old.





To muddy the water a little more, if it is the doctor's honest opinion (excluding addiction concerns) that I just have to live with pain because the alternative is worse, then that is what I would like to do. The problem is with the drug war hysteria brought about by a corrupt government, I don't know if the doctors' opinion is honest or it is just fear speaking for them.

Funny thing to me, about "sad upbringing," is that ECONOMICALLY speaking, nearly every girl who ever tries to pull the whine-story on me has NOT had a particularly sad upbringing. Perhaps emotionally she was deprived -- absent or abusive parents, weird home life, that sort of thing -- but generally they report having had a consistent experience at one school over a longer period of time, of never having gone hungry, of always having had a roof over their heads, of always having clothing and hygiene. Those aspects of their childhoods make them, by definition, better off than many people in the USA, and certainly better off than I happened to have it during certain times of my own childhood. It's funny, they want sympathy for some hardship which they actually did not undergo. I'd be happy to give sympathy for something that WAS difficult for them -- daddy raped them; or mommy was always on drugs and used to burn them with the iron; or they had to sleep six to a bed because they couldn't afford the electricity for heat in Fargo or Billings -- but they don't ever pull those stories out of the bag. Rather, it's always "I had it really hard, I could never afford the head cheerleader uniform so I had to be just a member of the cheerleading squad and nothing better, and when we changed from one private school to another I had to buy all different plaid skirts." Boo hoo ...

Hi Book Guy,

Hardship is relative. To some people that means that they were denied the latest $150 sneakers. Yes, it is difficult for me to relate to because it seems extravagent. I never felt deprived wearing the cheapest sneakers and in fact I happened to prefer the cheap brand. I didn't feel bad at all about wearing used clothing if it fit and was comfortable. Now, I did become very unhappy when the clothing or shoes were too small (too large and I'd keep my mouth shut or complain very little; fear of getting clobbered or worse getting too small clothing in replacement). I didn't care about not getting new toys. Someone else's discarded toys could be fine. (That doesn't mean I liked all toys, btw. I just didn't care if they were used.)

Anyway, someone else living the same experience may feel extremely depressed and perhaps even abused. I get extremely depressed when I get ripped off by those who are supposed to be protecting my rights. Another person, it might not bother at all. My former boss got ripped off and it did bother him, but he doesn't blame the system or society. Who knows if I was 10 percent as wealthy as him, then I might feel the same way.


Anyway, it seems like you know a very different class of dancer than I do. It is a $5 club so maybe girls working at those clubs generally had it harder than the dancers at the more expensive clubs. Sometimes the dancers' sad stories are worse than mine and sometimes what they describe just doesn't sound too bad----they consider it bad. One dancer had a dream of not getting second hand toys just once, but she says it was always somebody else's toy; never new. That was important to her and maybe it is important to other poor children. For me, it wasn't a problem at all.

There was an asian "kissing" club over on 163rd Street; a long time back. The young guy who told me about it and invited me along (at his expense; I didn't go, but definitely wanted to) was from an very wealthy family.

He considered himself to be abused. He basically had a blank check and was spending it on expensive prostitutes and LSD. I had met him in a disgusting drug den. He was amazed that I didn't have any interest in drugs seeing as how I was in a "bad" area and in a very rough place. Somehow he thought it was reasonable for him of the upper class to be in a filthy drug den, but that a poor person such as myself shouldn't be there???

Anyway, he was such a sweet guy. He just wanted to spread happiness and party. The two real negative areas were that he had family problems and his drug use, imo, seemed out of control. He was telling me that he needed happiness. That there was no point in living if people couldn't be happy. Every day should be a party. I said where is the money coming from? He says most of the really good stuff is free i.e. woman and drugs, if not for the government. We needed to preach and practice love. :) He was definitely a lovable person, but I couldn't handle his increasing "drug abuse."

I met his family. Nothing was too good for their son, but they were ice people. They viewed the world as a very predatory place. Enslave or be enslaved, kill or be killed, cheat or be cheated, love was a weakness that should be outgrown except for love of family. He says to me, you see how "evil" they are? Unfortunately, I did see . . . and I saw a huge amount of love for him and the other family members. They were just so cold blooded when it came to outsiders. He on the other hand really wanted to treat everyone like they were good. He just couldn't understand how his family could be so cold and ruthless when it came to other people.

"There was an asian "kissing" club.."

we can always use more of those

Hi David9999,

The way he described it, it sounded like total heaven. It wasn't cheap, however. It was for wealthier people. And, you had to look presentable. Comfortable expensive clothes fine, but don't be looking like you belong on a construction crew or even middle class. He said the way they did things took all night and basically it was one girl would have one customer for the night or you could go crazy and get more than one girl for the whole night. It wasn't a brothel at least for whites and maybe not for asians either, but who knows.

Looking back, I almost regret not accepting his very nice offer. He was a loveable guy, but even so I'd rather a wealthy friend hang out with me at some place I can afford.

I can only guess it comes with the territory (dancing). One exception is <evilcyn> though. Of all the times I have visited with this lovely lady, she never once has burdened me with her problems, nor have I burdened her with mine. We both just forget our problems and thoroughly enjoy our time together!

Burdening others with your own problems is, essentially, a bad plan in life regardless of the situation, I think. Even if you DO genuinely believe you're in a situation in which you're bad off, if you talk talk talk about it to others all you're going to do is drive them off, and further convince yourself of how miserable you ought to be. Not a good plan.

Depends on what the plan is. If the plan is money making or even happiness, then I agree it is a "bad plan."

I like people who I can relate to. If other people had similar experiences growing up, then I feel we share something important in common. For example, I'm not supposed to fear poverty. The problem is the people that tell me that have more money then they know what to do with! Most of the people I know who actually experienced poverty feel closer to the way I feel.

My former boss who I think very highly of--intelligent, strong, nice, winner, etc.--has NO sympathy for my fears. He claims I don't need money. Well, I don't need lots and lots of money because for the most part my tastes are simple simon. I think if I had tons of money that I would still prefer Angels to Tootsies in a landslide. I don't know that because I don't have lots money. I don't even really care to find out. I definitely need some money and I consider money to be my god--it isn't everyone's god, btw.


OK, I hope that made a little bit of sense at least. :)

I've known this dancer for years and years. She doesn't engage in "prostitution" to the best of my knowledge. She is very friendly with me and even gives me "free" dances. Sometimes she would just hang out with me. When she left the business she'd call once in a blue moon just to say hi and catch up a little bit. She got back into the business and still has no interest in "prostitution." Her definition being FS or BJ and all in all I would have to say she is softcore especially by Angel's standards. And, she told me that it wasn't that she hadn't tried prostitution. When she was young she did some tricks and she just didn't like it at all. She says dances are no problem, but for whatever reason she just doesn't want any part of prostitution. Other dancers don't see a dime's worth of difference, btw.

Anyway, years into my knowing her, she had shared a recent unhappy event. She was arrested for prostitution. My response (as well as anger that she wasn't selling to me) was that I want you to sell to me! :) Generally, my interest in that is fairly low unless I've known the dancer a while and like her. Sorry, I'm not one of those stick it in any hole guys. Of course, the arrest brought her tons of grief. That is one purpose of government. Anyway, she says NO NO you don't understand I'm innocent! I said really? She says yes it was just a sweep and police were just picking out girls at random and arresting them. So it is a depressing story and I could relate to it because of my experience. I told her that imo it didn't make a bit of difference if she was innocent or guilty because the system was basically fraudulent and bloodthirsty. Better just get a plea deal and pay whatever penalties the government wants.

Her story made me feel even closer to her. Now many people believe in this system. Do I respect their belief? Hell NO. I've experienced the filth first hand. And, it isn't just my little nothing case. I watched other cases as well. Do I have any interest in convincing other people that the system is garbage? I don't think it is possible. I'm not even sure if the person gets screwed whether they would "blame the system." There isn't any real incentive other than to vent and cry in spilled milk. IOWs, it isn't a "good plan" if you want to be happy and popular and successful. :)

Well, I know my whimpering and hatred for the system isn't going to change anything and will only make "flag wavers" as well as reasonable people unhappy. So why do it? I guess that is part of being unsuccessful. My former boss had this nutty idea that I could always earn more money if money was truly important. LOL! I said, why on earth would I do that when it is so easy for the courts to steal your hard earned money with out any type of real due process. (BTW, I am familar with "legal" methods of attempting to protect one's wealth and discussed same with different attorneys. The key isn't legal protections because you can't trust the judge to obey the law--somehow the identity needs to be completely sealed without creating another pile of messes.) Yes, I received years in the courts but truly not a drop of due process. A total fraud. My former boss points to himself! I said yes, but compared to your wealth the money that was stolen was nothing! He says it makes no difference he still suffered a theft at the hands of the courts. Whatever.


I guess that makes us even--I don't have sympathy for the money he had stolen and he doesn't have sympathy (he says he does) for the money I had stolen.

Nosiness has become an epidemic in our society. And since nosy people want to know everyone else's problems in excruciating detail, they assume you want to hear all about theirs too.

Hi FONDL,

Actually, I think not caring about other people has become epidemic in our society. I remember people genuinely caring many times and not only caring willing to help *IF* you were willing to help yourself.

Instead what we have now is a society if you're doing well who gives a fuck about what the government is doing to your neighbor. Just wave your filthy flag and chant this is the greatest country on earth.

You don't want to know, then definitely don't listen. However, if by some tiny chance you might need my help---I don't believe that would ever be the case---don't be surprised if I'm bored or indifferent and that I won't even call for help. Ain't my business.

Actually, I like people who mind their own and don't give a damn about me as long as I'm free from a whole host of nasty intrusions and mandates. You know the old days where the government basically let you fend for yourself, but better than that they basically left you *alone*. :)

Well, it's part of the mandated "what it means to be a good American" nowadays, to DELIBERATELY cut nobody any slack, deliberately kick those who are already down ("good for the economy, fosters competition") and basically prove you're "tougher" than other people.

Competition is, in fact, a divisive influence, by its very definition. Yet we try to base our national culture on it. That won't work in the long run.

Hi Book Guy,

I've been blessed to have nice people from time to time do more than they should have for me. Sometimes I was fortunate to be able to more than return the favor.

The nice people had such a powerful impact on my life and not all of it positive, surprisingly. Yes, that probably sounds very strange. A young girl gives you her heart and that can be twisted into a negative for the person who was honored to receive her love? There is a saying about no good deed goes unpunished . . . :( sometimes that is true too.

Anyway, I rather look at the positive effects of nice people. :) Sometimes I will be thinking about not helping someone who really doesn't need much help, but then I remember the nice people in my life and more often than not I will help. And, it will have been the right course of action. And, yes sometimes you can get taken advantage of which isn't a big deal for me usually. :)

You sound like me, Jablake. People who know me "in real life" say I'm Rip van Winkle -- always willing to do someone else's work for him, but inept at being selfish enough to do my own work for myself, such that I seldom get credit or livelihood on my own.

Here at the boards I piss and moan about it. But in the real world I'm all happy-go-lucky about the same thing. Living a double life?

Some day I'm going to wake up ten years later and discover that the little people have been bowling on the green ...

Just my two cents worth: I would never, ever fill a guy in on how "bad" that I am doing financially. EVER. EVEN if a customer says something to me along the lines of, "it's so dead around here now, how are you making it?" "You making money tonight?" "There's a bunch of non-tippers/cheapskates/rocks in here tonight..." etc..I know for a fact that he doesn't want to hear the details of my crappy night/week/month...I realize that he is just trying to be polite, but hearing my sob story is definitely not what he came there for. Even if I am traveling, paying for my hotel, and it is five minutes before closing, so I know that I am walking out of work that night in the negative I usually just reply something to the effect of, "the great nights more than make up for the slow times, and it all averages out in the end." I find that men appreciate that alot more and I am more likely to get that dance than the girl who just left his table after having whined about her bad night, her kids, etc. I have children also, but I don't bring them with me to the strip club for a reason.

In regards to the "kissing club", I believe today, for example on the west coast there are sometimes what's referred to as "hostess clubs" (e.g. asian hostesses and asian customers), where they have women (definitely not hookers) who just wait for the men each evening - I think they basically just hang out in the club together which I would guess might include kissing and maybe a bit more.