Modern Dating is Abysmal

Women tending to want a big wedding (more than men) is nothing new. It use to be expected that the bride's family would pay for the wedding. Big weddings are among the dumbest things people go into debt for.

Why do younger guys think there used to be some golden age of dating? Husbands used to be able to coerce their wives more easily. Glad I'm not the type of guy who sees that as part of a fulfilling life.

Maybe it's true there are guys who are sexually satisfied with a woman who's old-looking and/or out of shape. But, if you're not like that, trying to make yourself be like that works as well as gay to straight conversion therapy. That leaves you no real good option:

1. Resign yourself to mid-life being the end of sex for you.
2. Mid-life divorce followed by seeing sex workers. 2a) Mid-life divorce followed by second marriage that's probably really a much dumber way of paying for sex.
3. Cheat primarily with sex workers, and risk an even uglier mid-life divorce.
4. Stay single, and start relying on sex workers from a younger age.

The options involving sex workers are more or less appealing depending on where you live.

This site is the last place I would look for dating advice. A while ago, drew posted a discussion about how he got shot down by a fat chick in an elevator, and that is why paying sex workers is better than trying to find a straight girlfriend or regular booty call. He got a lot of agreements and encouragement to stick to p4p, which was pretty mortifying.

Depending on where you live, if it is a deep blue area, you may even be surrounded by liberal girl boss-wannabes who are on board with the "no sex, no dating, no kids" act in retribution for Kamala being unfit for office. In that case, p4p may be the only real option for a single guy.

At any rate, I'm sorry you were forced into an engagement which ruined a fine cohabitation arrangement. Mine was pretty similar, but I am very fortunate that it has resulted in a great marriage which is still going strong after 15 years. The only advice I would have for someone back on the market is to keep yourself out there. Go to parties, keep an open mind while networking professionally, join a coed recreational sports league (bowling, pickleball, whatever), and chat up women in grocery stores and at the bar to practice your banter and rapport. Good luck!

If you are how you describe yourself, then there’s plenty of time and options for you to find a mentally stable (and financially) woman to be your lifelong companion. The recent failed relationship will go a long ways to carve out what you know you’re looking for. Perspective will let you hone in on the right woman. Experience is the best teacher. In a few years you’ll be grateful for walking through your failed relationship. As we age we men get more pragmatic in our approach and that woman will recognize that as an attractive quality. Take it day by day, enjoying the present moments because you won’t be single forever!

Re: "I know this is not sustainable long-term"

I disagree.

What's not sustainable is the meat grinder of dating, and by extension, the iterative relationship break ups. However, the alternative of a lifelong satisfactory intimate connection with one woman, is pretty much out of the question.

With the possible exception of gammanu95 above, I don't know any married man who is truly happy with a lifelong monogamous relationship. In fact most are miserable, with the best simply having resigned their fates to the monstrous matrimonial system - existing as mere shells other former selves. Further, every married man I've known, I would not trade places with him. Conversely, they look at my life like I got it made - and they're correct.

Like yourself, I love the companionship of women. Fortunately, there are many ways to engage women, at all levels, without the lifelong sentence of a marriage.

I only wish I had started at 32.

I wouldn't trade my almost 35 year relationship with wife, which always included sex with others for both of us for a billion dollars. Nothing comes close. Wouldn't change a minute, even the bad ones. No one on this board knows more about relationships than I do.

Others have touched on it. There's a whole gamut of life circumstances, with the best possible outcome (at least, for some) being a desirable long-term partner that you're fortunate to be attracted to over many years, all without either partner growing in a manner that diverges from wanting to sustain the relationship.

But that's an increasingly unlikely exception to what appears to be the prevailing rule of modern society.

Add in the comically punitive divorce laws that have been steadily advancing in scope over the last 30 years (which exhausts men at the individual level while conveniently juicing more labor hours out of each and every working man in the country), and the whole thing just reeks of a bad deal.

I would love to have the picturesque family unit that the most fortunate of us have managed to build up for themselves.

But faced with today's odds, consciously reaching for that with both eyes open means that I am fully anticipating that I, out of legions of men, will be one of the lucky ones. As far as I can tell, quite a lot of married men are living quiet but utterly desperate lives.

You get point. "I will be exceptionally lucky" is not a particularly pragmatic mindset for navigating today's long-term relationship culture.

I find it hard to blame men, even relatively young men, for leaning on less-than-ideal substitutes. It's not the only way to adapt to the way things are now (and the way they've been trending, and might still trend), but I find it harder nowadays to think of hobbying-related activities as the "low road" that I used to.

I’ve been married for 22 years to a smart, funny, well employed, plain looking woman who shares my love of music. We have wonderful children and a home and a good life, albeit with ups and downs. It’s a family, not a fantasy. It is not all about sex. Our life revolves around our family, home, and goals.

There is a lot of pontificating and whining available on the internet from men who think they can have a woman with the looks of a porn star with no investment, and from women who want to marry a billionaire with abs since they are cute.

If you can peel yourself away from trying to get a hottie, from trying to buck the system, and from trying to fuck women you meet at the club, there are actually plenty of women out there. Find someone in your league looks wise, and date with the intention of building a family. Women love it. They do not love this “weddings and rings are just unnecessary expenditure” bullshit. When you say that, all they hear is “you’re not worth it”.

It can be done, but you need to follow the general game plan of date, move in, propose, wedding, kids, etc. Trying to have it another way is possible but unless you’re a big deal somehow, it’s improbable.

There's no simple solution. Everyone has to pick their trade offs. But a bit of true wokeness would be helpful. Anyone who thinks they can dictate to somebody they supposedly love what is SUPPOSED to make them happy is ridiculous and a true PL. That applies to both men and women.

Relationships take work, if they are worth it. 42 years a divorce lawyer and 34+ with wife and I learned a lot. #1 Commit only to your best friend to whom you are sexually attracted. #2 Everything that's said, no matter how fucking stupid does not require a response. #3 If you're planning on a life together how can 1 bad day, week or month change all of that? #4 No one is always right, including you. #5 Sometimes winning a fight is worse than losing and #6 10s don't marry 5s. Be realistic. DREW is correct.

^ #2 is a good one!

"and I see very little difference between sugaring and sex work"

Can anybody list three differences?

"It’s a family, not a fantasy. It is not all about sex. Our life revolves around our family, home, and goals."

That sounds like a healthy way to go about things.

I mean there are so many ways to sell pussy now a days why give it away for free?

Laughing together helps

On a side note if men had standards like women a lot of these land whales and booger wolfs would be humbled. But many of man will still sex, marry, date a 300lb woman if he’s horny enough.

With the possible exception of gammanu95 above, I don't know any married man who is truly happy with a lifelong monogamous relationship.

Well, then there is me, 44 years, still lovin the morning cuddles.

When you're ready, try again. Or stay single. Go with what's best for you.

STUD - fucking bingo dude. My wife is hysterically funny, and we make each other laugh for at least an hour a day.

skibum... You got an exceptionally good situation going with your wife. I am envious. I did not have that situation with my exwife. At my age I'm not really looking for another wife.

I’ve noticed that young customers at the titty bar are definitely more willing to spend than their like age counterparts did in 2016. Sadly, I do think that reflects genuine loneliness in lives.

Some sugar babies want a daddy they find sexually attractive. That can get into a grey area, whether it's sex work.

Jascoi - Luckily for me, that despite making 99% wrong decisions lifetime, the one decision I made that was 100% perfect was marrying my wife, who started out as an agreed upon one night stand almost 4 decades ago. As my brother aprtly noted: "There is literally nothing on earth I cannot find a way to fuck up, no matter how simple". Makes me laugh still. I never wanted to get married, work for myself, own a heavily wooded lot and hated the idea of owning a pool. So here I am self-employed, married, living in a heavily wooded area and am also the moron with a 16x32 pool. I do like the slide and diving board though.

===> "Sugaring is sex work. The women who engage in it are in self denial trying to say it’s not."

Ssshhhhhh, lol.

I mean fucking A TC. Sugar babies don't advertise on escort sites. Besides, how many escorts would you bring to dinner before dessert? There are HUGE differences! These VERY important distinctions are why so many vanilla girls with F/T day jobs are willing to sugar date, but would never DREAM of working as strippers or escorts.

So GET WITH THE PROGRAM TC and don't make them question themselves with all that judgy nonsense! wink wink

And Ssshhhhhh.

It's always something with a modern woman. Trust you would have hated being married. If you are serious about marriage, you have to go out of the country. It's a shit how in the USA. So many self entitled broads today.

I like the strip clubs, because all I need is a quick nut from a broad. I really don't want the exhausting relationship.

@TCabot, yes, a dancer invited me over for dinner (that she cooked, it was very good). Her, me, and her husband. But we only socialized OTC.

Ironic. Just when TUSCL figures out which women will make dating great again, Trump is going to deport them all because they come from what he considers to be shithole countries.