SD/SB culture starting to seep into clubs?

It's always been there

Is your club starting to look like SA? That sounds very tempting!

If there are more MILF’s around with hot bodies - looking to cover expenses - that could be a great opportunity for filthy older men - with perverse taste in women…

===> "It's always been there"

No, it has not. Not in this way anyway. If it had I wouldn't have raised it as a topic young lady.

@Rick
What’s the difference between a recurring OTC relationship and a PPM SD/SB relationship? They seem to me to be very similar, with the only distinction being the OTC relationship was established in the club, whereas the SD/SB relationship established on-line. This likely results in a slightly different candidate mix (I believe there are SBs out there who would never consider working as a stripper) but at the end of the day they’re hot girls willing to fuck for money.

I think care is in order, not that you need such a warning. 🤣 Many of the girls who use the term "sugar daddy" mean, or are at least hoping for, long term, and no sex. Obviously that's not going to interest someone like you, and the "no sex" part would definitely be a deal breaker for me, and I have no doubt you'll kick those types to the curb even more quickly than I would.

I don't mind the long term part, which anyone who's ever read any large number of my older posts should already know. That's what my ATF and I had, and my current is a de facto sugar baby.

I can't even count the number of dancers who claim to have a sugar daddy who doesn't want sex, but are known to have put out in the club, however rarely.

Rick you dumb bitch. Just because you don't see something in your backwoods redneck clubs doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

Strippers have always had regulars they string along and sugaring relationships have always been latched on to when they could find them.

It looks like you're too stupid to know what goes on and just focus on the semantics of what the relations are called.

^ I can already tell where this is going to go...

Georgemicrodong. The no sex sugaring relationships seem to be common. Girls I know who do it don't get as much money for sex. But have a few guys each who pay them to text. To go out to dinner. It adds up when they have a few.

Cim fuck off . He started it and you're just baiting

I think somehow many girls will use the terms sugar baby/daddy and to them somehow it's not prostitution. And I am not going to do one thing to change their line of thinking. Before I joined SA, I had a couple of ongoing relationships with strippers where we would go on OTC dates. We just didn't call it sugaring. But in reality, there is no difference.

If a girl is on the fence about OTC I might bring up the sugar world to see if that’s sparks a different train of thought by framing it different. Some are down.

If you aren't getting sex from her when you give her money, you are not a Sugar Daddy, you are a simp. You might as well call her a FinDom, buy her some whips she can use to flog your balls, then tip her a grand for the sacrifice she made by paying attention to you. (See how stupid that sounds? Now don't be that stupid.)

I've had SB's I met in strip clubs before Seeking was just a wild idea in Brandon Wade's hind-brain. We didn't call it sugaring then. We called it "I'm gong to bang that hot stripper in my apartment again to avoid splooging extra VIP fees on the club owners."

Dugan I’ve definitely seen an uptick of dancers letting it be known they’re open to set up meetings outside the club on a regular basis. They say things like “ we’d go together well”, and other hints suggesting fun.

@Icee: You're missing the point of the original post. Yes there have always been girls who latch on to a good OTC regular. I've done as much stripper OTC as almost anyone on this board and I'm very well aware of the different flavors these arrangements come in. But there are also plenty who don't because they don't want to think of themselves as prostitutes.

The ability to rationalize an action matters, especially to some women. The increasing normalization of sugaring is giving some girls who previously said no to me the fig leaf rationalization they need to say yes. This is a good development. I've almost never heard the word sugardaddy come out of the mouth of a stripper, including any of the countless strippers I've taken OTC out of clubs in 14 states. Hearing it more recently tells me that they are using it as a way to rationalize saying yes. Good times.

===> "Many of the girls who use the term "sugar daddy" mean, or are at least hoping for, long term, and no sex."

LOL GMD. I really do hear you, but tbh I'm not remotely worried about this. Strippers more than anyone else know what guys want when they take them OTC. I have never had a situation, in all that I've done, where a stripper agreed to an OTC outing where the expectations were ambiguous. In about 1 in 10 negotiations the girl will actually confirm what I'm seeking, but in the other 9 out of 10 it doesn't even need to be said.

Better hide the Cheerios or herbtcat is going to piss in them lol.

I was going to post something about sugar daddies being a thing before Seeking Arrangement. And the internet for that matter. But his post covered all that. There's lots of names for sugar babies. We use a lot of them here on TUSCL when we feel like being rude.

If the girls are the ones bringing it up, that's definitely a change. I think around 2018 I started saying that as an alternative to asking the girls about OTC, just mention you're on SA looking for an SB -- close to 100% (not an exaggeration) of strippers had SA profiles even back then. Many of them had started up a profile and then abandoned it, when they realized it was work to get an SD and he wouldn't be draping her in gucci until they had sex (and even then, no gucci lol). But for a solid 5 years, mentioning SA, comparing profiles right there in the club, has been a pretty reliable way to bring up OTC for me. But I was the one who always brought it up, girls weren't just discussing it out of the blue.

I've seen a huge uptick in this sort of thing the last year or 2 as well, but it has always been around just not on this level. I also find it funny that they wanna label it something else than it really is but whatever works. Personally, if I was a hooker and solicited dudes for sex for $$$$ I'd be proud of being a whore and I'd be the best whore ever. Whatever. LOL I just prefer the unapologetic attitude is all like with some of the ghetto chicks who are straight up. I can respect that 100%

In the other thread the conversation was around how sugaring and strip clubs are in competition. And, ultimately, they are. So, it's logical to assume that the language, practices, and culture of one will start to creep into the other. I think that some of this is happening as means for both the customer and provider to soften the sting associated with doing something that is still stigmatized.

At the same time, it also has a lot to do with how (by way of Seeking and other portals) being a "sugar baby" has turned into a profession, or at least a side gig. I've said before that Seeking, etc., has essentially "Uberized" sex work and made it available to women who don't want to fully commit to stripping or escorting. I also think that Seeking simultaneously benefits from and encourages the normalization of sex work. Perhaps what we're seeing is that, as people get gradually more okay with sex work, we're replacing the derogatory language and labels that were created solely to create shame where none need exist at all.

I'm fine with that.

"I've said before that Seeking, etc., has essentially "Uberized" sex work and made it available to women who don't want to fully commit to stripping or escorting. "

Right. It lets a woman who does not think of herself as a sexworker, both engage in this and continue to not think of herself as a sexworker, while also making a decent amount of extra cash from just one guy who sees her often.. In addition, the fantasy story on tiktok/youtube/etc is that SBs can get thousands of dollars, cars, expensive purses, etc., all in a PLATONIC sugar relationship, where an empowered SB is the one preying on old rich simps. It gives our hypothetical non-sexworker woman aircover with friends -- she'd be stigmatized and outcast in her social group if they thought she was a prostitute, but now if they find out or get suspicious she's got air cover that she's just going on platonic dates with rich old dudes.

I've mentioned SA to several strippers over the past few years and every one of them admitted to having an account although most said they weren't really active. It could be the effort required I suppose. I recently asked one of she had heard of SA and she replied "you want to be my sugardaddy?" and gave me her number. I had just met her.

I don't know if its the opposite, but I've noticed more girls in the clubs adopting the escort model than the sugar baby model. More and more I'm asking girls about OTC and they're immediately interested. When it comes to money, the percentage that have an hourly rate in mind is astounding. It used to be I very rarely encountered that kind of thing, and I quickly learned to identify those girls by their behaviors in the club. Lately though, its been the opposite. I've had no less than 5 girls quote me hourly rates, quite matter of factly, in the past month or two.

These are girls who exhibit none of what I'd consider the traditional escort working as a stripper traits. They seem to be more likely candidates to try a romance hustle than to be straight escorts. Then when OTC comes up, they like "its xxx/hr, how many hours do you want?" What's more, when I back away because I don't like that model, they still wanna sit and be friendly in the club. They'll literally sit with me for 2-3 hours. If I push the issue and try to get them in a room without the chitchat they seem offended and some have literally said "not yet, can we hang for a while first" which is shocking in and of itself, doubly so for a girl who charges like an escort. The economics of it as another story altogether, but I don't want to completely hijack the thread.

So, I guess it is the opposite in that I've seen less of what I'd typically encounter with OTC friends, which much more closely aligns to the Sugar Baby/Daddy model.

"I've mentioned SA to several strippers over the past few years and every one of them admitted to having an account although most said they weren't really active. It could be the effort required I suppose. I recently asked one of she had heard of SA and she replied "you want to be my sugardaddy?" and gave me her number. I had just met her."

Yep, exactly what I've been saying for years. Nearly all strippers have profiles, many of those profiles are inactive, but it leads seamlessly to a conversation abouto OTC or exploring sugar today. And yes, many strippers actively want an SD even if they don't want to put in the work, so many react very positively

Anyway, glad to hear someone else is seeing the same thing!

"They'll literally sit with me for 2-3 hours. If I push the issue and try to get them in a room without the chitchat they seem offended and some have literally said 'not yet, can we hang for a while first' which is shocking in and of itself, doubly so for a girl who charges like an escort."

Let's get the ego saving out of the way first. Yes, some dancers want to hang with you because they prefer your company to some other wallet's. Other dancers want to tie you up so it's less likely you'll meet another girl you like. If they know you're a potential source of dollars outside the club this increases their interest, because they can cash in on you OTC and make other people's money on shift because you're taken care of. Example, a dancer sees you on the way to work, gets your money, and starts the day ahead. Even better, you got your nut already so are less likely to wander into a club and meet a girl you like better. Everybody wins.

Selling pussy is being normalized. Girls use the euphemisms sugaring or not fucking for free to describe it because of the influence of the whole hot girl and city girl bs in urban culture.

Internet platforms didn't create this. They just offered a platform for it.

Also keep in mind that the persona they portray to their tricks isn't who they really are. These girls are seasoned and know what they're doing.

Acting like they're not into it and trying to make the trick feel special is a strategy that works on older white men. Just like acting shocked at what other girls do.

^ I get why some girls want to hang in the club.

But in my previous experience, the girls who were working as strippers to find clients as an escort didn't generally do that sort of stuff or at least did it infrequently. A girl who wanted or even was willing to sit and hang out for hours on end with no guarantee of a return ITC didn't turn around and have a by-the-hour charge model OTC. They'd essentially do the same thing OTC as they did ITC. There were other indicators too, more subtle ones that I'm too lazy to write out explanations of. What I'm noticing now is that correlation no longer holds, more and more girls seem to want to bill by the hour. I'm inferring from that cost model they are less inhibited from related hang ups with that and there wanting us to be friends or sugar baby/daddy to justify it, which runs contrary to Rick's observations, and it seems many of the other commenters in the thread.

I don't know why my experience isn't in line. Maybe it's a fluke and not indicative of any trend. Maybe I've lost my touch and I'm just doing a shitty job weeding out the escorts in stripper shoes. Maybe there's a different dynamic in my area, possibly area we're further along the normalization chain, past the normalization of SD/SB relationships and and we're moving into the normalization of sex work without any veil or air cover as Subra calls it. Maybe it's a local phenomena related to the immigration status of many of our strippers, or economic conditions, or something else unique to our area.

^^ Icee, are you educating us again honey? It's always cute when a 20-something year old girl shares her deep wisdom with guys twice her age and with 50 times her experience. Keep up the good work kiddo. 😉

@Dolfan: Maybe it's the area that you're in? If I'm not mistaken, you are in S. FL frequenting clubs that receive a lot of tourist traffic.

It's definitely the situation that makes Icee so limited in her thinking. Almost everyone in Vegas is a hustler, a hooker or a tourist. It's just the nature of the place. Yet she thinks that because she lived with a crack ho stripper for a while and got to know a few other local dancers and maybe a few club staffers that she understands how these things operate everywhere. She doesn't get that Vegas is the aberration, not the norm. Most clubs elsewhere don't operate like the Vegas clubs do and dancers elsewhere don't necessarily operate the same way either.

We all have our different perspectives, which is what makes this place so interesting. :)

Yeah, my ^ was supposed to be pointed at Wall's post that contained a quote from my earlier, not Icee's. He/She/It/They snuck in while I was typing.

And yeah, I'm refrencing south Florida. There's certainly a number of potential explanations, local phenomena like higher than average tourism is certainly a potential.

Rick are you grooming yoir daughters to find wonderful family men like you? Or for them to be the kind of girls you pay? Ignorant sick fuck

Icee, time and again you pull my family into the discussion when you know nothing about my home situation. You're an angry child and you're out of line. Your personal baggage and overall emotional anger do not justify abhorrent behavior like pulling children into adult discussions.

Shame on you.

This post is well timed for me. A dancer I saw a number of times since COVID quit dancing a few months back to pursue school and a career. She was enjoyable enough, and we were aligned enough in terms of activities that I offered to do an OTC meetup if she was ever so inclined. Recently she posted online about needing money, and I offered the same meet up again. We now have a date, location, duration, cost, and expectations set. While I've met plenty of pros and civvies in hotel rooms before, this will be the first time I've done OTC with a dancer I know from the club. I get the sense she is a bit nervous, as am I. Should be interesting!

I was thinking that there is nothing shocking today about a retired dancer doing some SB or OTC work. I can imagine the cash flow differential between the club and a straight job is significant, and if she's meeting the same guy she got along well with ITC for OTC, it's probably not much of a stretch emotionally. Plus, it seems like everyone is doing it anyway.

We shall see!

Have fun dcpnw! Saw your comment about how she might perceive the arrangement from an emotional perspective. Every girl is different, which is old news to a hound like you.

I would say the average person knows that most of these sugar relationships that are popular these days are prostitution. I'm not knocking it but call a spade a spade. Idk why people get all up in arms about words like "prostitution", "whore", and "hooker"... I'd love for girls to talk about what a huge whore I am at every single club so every guy gets curious and wants to try giving me money to see what happens lmao

Blahblah you're right. But tiscl members are weirdos who pretend paying hookers isn't prostitution

Also I am not saying that platonic arrangements don't exist between a man and a woman to where the woman benefits financially... but like it isn't the type of money involved that is being advertised. Like if a 68 yr old guy is giving a 21 yr old chick he meets a few times a month 5 grand a month every month, trust that she is at a minimum sucking old man dick lmao. It isn't something to brag about but these chicks will sure brag about it very publicly lmao.

===> "I'd love for girls to talk about what a huge whore I am at every single club so every guy gets curious and wants to try giving me money to see what happens lmao"

Would you really? So you wouldn't mind if the girls in the DR were trash talking about you behind your back? Or telling their worst customers how much of a whore you are? Maybe you wouldn't care if guys thought it was OK to stick three fingers up your ass in the LD room or just try to "slip it in" because, after all, you are a whore. How about when one of the other bitches tells your BF that you'll fuck anything with a heartbeat and a wallet? Or when management at your non-extras club tells the LD monitor to keep a careful eye on you?

You and your PTSD Sister-in-Arms Icee keep saying the same shit over and over and I get it. But there are a multitude of reasons why a girl doesn't want to gain a rep for being an indiscriminate whore. Not every place is like Vegas or Miami or Detroit. In many places getting that label has negative consequences.

Rick you're out of touch with reality. No one cares about your redneck small town clubs. And stop describing your daughters.

Girls are open about what they do.

You just fall for the act they play on you to make you think you're special and not just another trick 🤡

^^ Icee, are you educating us again honey? It's always cute when a 20-something year old girl shares her deep wisdom with guys twice her age and with 50 times her experience.

Also time and again you pull my family into the discussion when you know nothing about my home situation. You're an angry child and you're out of line. Your personal baggage and overall emotional anger do not justify abhorrent behavior like pulling children into adult discussions. Shame on you.

Icey when was the last time you paid for OTC?

Drew, are you icee's setup man? LOL. You do realize you just tossed her a softball that she's going to use to launch into another one of her posts about how she doesn't have to pay for it, that we're just geriatric tricks, etc., etc., no? 😆

LOL Iceydodo pays a junkie stripper whore's tip outs and penalties for leaving the club, showers her with tips, and provides the drugs...all so she can say that she doesn't actually pay a junkie stripper whore for OTC. 🤭🤡😂😂😂

And ironically she says other TUSCLers are pretending that they're not paying a hooker for prostitution. 🤭🤡😂😂😂

Drew I don't pay for otc

^^^LMFAO yeah you pay for everything else and more, though. 🤭🤡😂😂😂

@icey: exactly. So aren’t you the wrong one to say what does and does not constitute “in touch” wrt this thread? Don’t get me wrong, there are subjects wrt the hobby that you seem to have a good deal of knowledge on. But OTC can’t be one of them.

Would you really? So you wouldn't mind if the girls in the DR were trash talking about you behind your back? Or telling their worst customers how much of a whore you are? Maybe you wouldn't care if guys thought it was OK to stick three fingers up your ass in the LD room or just try to "slip it in" because, after all, you are a whore. How about when one of the other bitches tells your BF that you'll fuck anything with a heartbeat and a wallet? Or when management at your non-extras club tells the LD monitor to keep a careful eye on you?

^ First question:no. I have had bitches talk shit about me a # of times, and like you can't possibly begin to give a fuck about all of the bullshit. I couldn't care less what bitches say, but if they wanna get violent they might make the cold-blooded psycho come back out behind my sedating meds. I've never had a dude try and finger my ass or pussy. Or maybe they try and I am too good at blocking idk? lol. Most guys can sorta sense not to try a whole lot with me or if I make them not do something I think they can tell I will get violent instantly if they disobey idk. I just have that effect I guess :) Dudes don't try 1/4 the shit with me they do with other girls, idk why rly but ye! I don't give a fuck if mgmt watches me extra close in privtes, I've already had this happen as well cuz I was outselling jealous bitches. I am not actually doing anything in privates that would ever get anyone fired based on that. Let a girl tell any guy I'm seeing or talking to that I'm a total hoe, I'd laugh.

Idk quite frankly none of that would affect me? Or I've already been thru a lot of that and don't care. Just send them perverts and their money my way, yeah I'm a total hoe/biggest hoe here/ etc which are all lines I've used describing myself to get guys to go in the back. Like I have word vomit, and don't care too much what I say rly but I will not make Hitler jokes and that's about my only limit.

Drew. I know hoes. I've dated hoes and I have plenty of hoe friends. I go off that.

^^^LMFAO "dated" = gave a junkie whore money and drugs for GFE

🤭🤡😂😂😂

Funny how Iceydodo spends more than the average trick on junkie stripper whores in the form of money, drugs, and expensive gifts, yet she doesn't want to admit that she's one too.

Moreover she's obsessed with making this distinction on TUSCL and accusing others of being a trick. She tries so hard to differentiate herself but at the same time she admits to spending a lot of money on them.

It's like she's using TUSCL just to convince herself she's not a trick. It's clearly a coping mechanism.


🤭🤡😂😂😂

Icey. Ok sure you know them, but you only know what they tell you and what they want you to think. I think we all know that women, and esp dancers are good at telling all kinds of things other than the truth, esp to their friends and coworkers. “You are so beautiful”, “we are best friends”, “he is such an asshole” etc. maybe you don’t really hear the truth in the way we as actual johns observe firsthand?

^^^and let's not forget, which Iceydodo conveniently omits, she dates junkies. Her last "love" was a coke whore.

And Iceydodo was her supplier/dealer.

LMFAO so of course a junkie is going to tell her dealer anything she wants to hear.

===> "Idk quite frankly none of that would affect me?"

Ok blah, maybe none of that shit would affect you, but IME it's stuff that a lot of other girls worry about, especially in the lower mileage clubs. Of course you're burned out to a crisp and a bit of a psycho, so I suspect that you're long past caring about a lot of things. 😉

Ooh, I wanna make the cold-blooded psycho come back out behind Blah’s sedating meds. 😻

Bacon!!

Drew. I'm an easy person to open up to. I'm very laid back and don't judge. Girls really open up to me.

What I agree with you on is that when a girl really likes you and is a hoe she won't always tell you right away if at all. Theyll talk about what others do though. And when they talk about work. It's about club drama bitching about management. They hardly ever talk about customers unless it's gross weird or funny.

"I'm an easy person to open up to. I'm very laid back and don't judge."

"you dumb bitch."

"It looks like you're too stupid to know what goes on and just focus on the semantics of what the relations are called."

"Ignorant sick fuck"


^^^Just pointing out the irony in Iceydodo's own words in this thread.

Her ultimate issue is that she lives a lie in her own head. And she can't keep it consistent.

🤭🤡😂😂😂

I've personally noticed that usually it is the white American girls who lie lie about being clean dancers when in fact they do extras all the time. Usually the blacks and latinas are more upfront, and not really ashamed of what they are doing.

Black girls are the most upfront I think. I think with Latinas it depends on their ethnicity. How long they've been in the US. A lot of factors. But yeah.

@Blah & Icee:

So you're saying that blacks and Latinas are more likely than white women to be unabashed and indiscriminate whores? FFS. And to think that Icee was just in another thread accusing Muddy of being racist...

FWIW IME this is far from universally the case. Yes there are plenty of brothel clubs that seem to be heavy on Latinas and black girls. But IME those you meet in cleaner clubs are just as likely to follow the rules as any other girl on shift.

Seriously now ladies...

I never said that blacks and latinas are more likely to be indiscriminate whores. I simply said a lot of them are more upfront about whoring if that is how they get their money. Whereas a lot of these white americans are also huge whores, but they play that "holier than art thou" and "I would never" sht or whatever.

I don't understand, Rick, what the fuck is your problem with whores that are comfortable and proud with themselves? It is like you prey on girls that are reluctant, and then manipulate them/twist their arm a bit to do things they regret. Then you post on here about bitch after bitch crying.

Shouldn't you be ok with whores that are comfortable with what they do considering that you are a PL that seeks out whores?

Yet another reason I don't OTC. I've only asked one dancer, a smokeshow who repeatedly hinted at it, about OTC, and she said "no, I don't do that, that would make me a whore!"

I don't want any dancer to think she has more of a right to me than any other.

If I wanted to screw one girl until it became routine, I'd get a girlfriend.

===> "Shouldn't you be ok with whores that are comfortable with what they do considering that you are a PL that seeks out whores?"

Am I? If that's what I wanted, there are plenty of clubs around the country - including a couple locally - where I can find plenty of girls who will gladly fuck and suck ITC. I don't frequent those places because I don't look for chicks who would fuck anyone with a heartbeat and a wallet.

Now I know that there's no real distinction for girls like you and Icee, who are angry and bitter and, I suspect, have some PTSD issues that may even include the need to protect yourselves from guys. To you, a girl from a low mileage club who agrees to OTC with me is the same as one who is servicing five to eight cocks a day in the LD room.

But to me there most definitely is a difference. I'm certainly not foolish enough to believe that I'm the only one ever for any girl, but I have ample reasons to believe that any girl I see OTC is not doing high volume, simply by virtue of the fact that she's not doing the stuff ITC and she otherwise has other home/life obligations. There are only so many hours in the day and only so much energy any one person has. And if a girl like this doesn't want to think of herself as a "whore" or open herself up to any swinging dick with money to spend, then I don't see anything wrong with that.

Rick is back at it again channeling his inner SJG . Rick's you're saying anyone who calls the hookers you pay to have sex with you hookers. Is a bitter woman coz they're not hookers when you pay them. You're special and their only trick 🤡

Yeah Iceydodo it's just like what you do. Giving a desperate junkie whore money and drugs and then preaching all over TUSCL like you're special and "dating".

LMFAO it's just like you are saying about rickdugan and sam_jose_creep. 🤭🤡😂😂😂

So you would rather get girls who literally cry after their sessions with you?

^^ Icee, are you educating us again honey? It's always cute when a 20-something year old girl shares her deep wisdom with guys twice her age and with 50 times her experience. Keep up the good work kiddo. 😉

@Blah: Those were isolated events. Indeed I posted about them precisely because they were so unusual.

I have no knowledge, one way or the other, about any recent trends with this. I've heard non-extras strippers talk about SA and similar sites over the years. They say stuff like, if they could find a sugar daddy who was, say, a 6 or better to them, they'd consider it. Their idea is that it would be just one, very generous sugar daddy. It's usually tangled up with ups and downs with their SO. When they're down on their SO, the talk about getting a sugar daddy gets more frequent. But none of my favs ever actually closed a deal like this.

Ok, Rick- I'll give you the benefit of the doubt on that one. Whatever

@ilbbaicnl they can get into a platonic relationship with a guy that helps them financially- it just won't be these higher amounts like 8k or whatever that some of the hookers talk about. It would involve actually staying in touch with the dude which the SO wouldn't like. Same time if they aren't married to their SO or at least live with him and he pays all the bills then like why would they care about their stupid SO's opinions?

Girls usually have more than one guy who gives them money without sex. Guys will pay for regular texts friendliness. To be in her company. It's not uncommon.

What guys talk about on here aren't even real sugaring relationships. They talk about hookers they see on a regular basis. A real sugar daddy betters her life. He doesn't just pay to fuck

^^ Icee, are you educating us again honey? It's always cute when a 20-something year old girl shares her deep wisdom with guys twice her age and with 50 times her experience. Keep up the good work kiddo. 😉

Honestly Icey, why are you even posting on this subject? You don’t sugar, so what would you know about the subject? You use the old “I know hoes” argument as a one size fits all source of expert knowledge of all things PL. Sure you know a few non-extras dancers in one city, but does that really give you any basis to advise others?

Rick’s ignoring you at this point, he just copy/pastes the same response every time you chime in. You’ve got more ignores than sjg now. Is there a point at which you course correct?

Drew. I'm stating how it works and what hoes do. I'm not posting the tricks misguided view. That's what Rick's posts are for.

And I couldn't care less about Rick's trolling or butthurt dumbasses ignoring me

Drew said "You’ve got more ignores than sjg now. Is there a point at which you course correct?"

Why would he course correct if this is exactly what he wants?

Icey. You’re stating how it works for sure…. But there is nothing to imply that you actually know how it works. Since you don’t sugar.

Drew, again with setting Icee up? 😉

The Icee character is just a silly young girl who believes that because she's met a few people in a few clubs that she has a handle on how things work with every guy and girl everywhere. So as long as she makes the same 3 or 4 blanket trolling statements, she's going to get the same responses. She's either going to eventually learn how limited her experience set actually is or she isn't. Fine with me either way. 😁

Yeah Rick I guess it is a setup… at some point I’m asking myself what the hell does a guy who doesn’t do X know about X? Maybe there is some logical loophole, but I don’t think there is. Lots of people assume they know something because they thought about how they want it to be. But the truth is, someone who doesn’t eat tacos can’t tell you a damn thing about tacos. Even if he knows a handful of taco truck drivers. It’s common sense, and I’m trying to get icey to see this. Setup, logical argument, whatever, I guess.

I'm stating how it works.i know sugar babies. I had sugar mommas before. If you want to coddle rickd delusion that paying hookers for sex isn't paying hookers for sex that's on you.

Real sugaring is more complex than what some are posting here

Drew, using your analogy, she doesn't know nearly as many "taco truck drivers" as I or many others around here do. She can come back and tell me how this works after she's had these interactions with a few thousand strippers and been part of negotiating [xxx] of these adventures with women of all backgrounds spread out across this great nation (and a few International jurisdictions).

Cim Rick and you xan keep trolling me but that doesn't make anything I say wrong

Rick bragging about paying hookers for sex just makes you an expert trick and expert at getting played to feed your delusion

*Sigh." Fuck you Drew for sucking me back into this nonsense, lol. Peace. 😆

^^ Icee, are you educating us again honey? It's always cute when a 20-something year old girl shares her deep wisdom with guys twice her age and with 50 times her experience. Keep up the good work kiddo. 😉

^ sorry Rick, I deserve that. 😂

Icey. Who made you the arbiter of “Real sugaring”?

@Drew
Do you think you could get me some recommendations from Iceefag which taco trucks in South Florida have good tacos.

@25 (nice to see you back here) AHAHAHAHAHAHA, or maybe ion South Florida, JAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJA!!!!!

Drew said "... at some point I’m asking myself what the hell does a guy who doesn’t do X know about X?"

Please provide one subject matter (be it on or off topic) where Icee weighed in and eventually admitted that he knows less than anyone else here? Just one.

And there might even be one, but I bet you're going to have to really dig around for it.

Point being, the validity of the argument is far less important to Icee than just starting an argument and having that argument be the thing that dominates the thread (all of them...).

^never seen it. I’ve seen a few cases where he clearly knew what he was talking about (Spanish language, LV area clubs) but never an admission of “I don’t know”.

Drew. Im aware that real sugaring is a lot more than p4p. On here jts just a euphemism for an appointment with a hooker.

Every girl I know with a real sugar daddy benefits a lot. In terms of mentoring elevating her etc.

When I had sugar mommas I had a lot of opportunities opened to me. Met a lot of people I wouldn't.

Fun fact: Iceydodo is a narcissist. Therefore she will NEVER admit to not knowing anything that she has posted about under the ASSUMPTION that she's not a dumbass (to which we all know she is.)

Fun fact: Iceydodo still doesn't understand nor see that she makes strawman arguments. She's incapable of understanding this so you'll see her make them over and over again.

For example she just made a strawman argument about how TUSCLers talk about sugaring. She has no clue that she made a strawman argument and she's simply too big of a dumbass to know this.

Some of you morons make conversation impossible here because to you everything is just a euphemism for paying hookers to fuck you

^^ Icee, are you educating us again honey? It's always cute when a 20-something year old girl shares her deep wisdom with guys twice her age and with 50 times her experience. Keep up the good work kiddo. 😉

Rick you keep reposting that bs coz what I write triggers you. Now keep on bragging how paying hundreds of hookers and getting played makes you an expert on sugaring

Icey. “ Some of you morons make conversation impossible here because to you everything is just a euphemism for paying hookers to fuck you”

If everyone else is doing it wrong, doesn’t that suggest that you’re the one with the misconception?

Even I, with zero SB experience, am aware that sugaring can range from platonic support for conversation over dinner, to ppm sex. I also know that advice can be thrown in at any level. God knows middle aged men like to give advice. Moreover, it is routinely described by SDs and SBs as just another word for prostitution. So yeah, a SB is a hooker, whore, prostitute, escort, SW, etc. as well as a “baby” that gets “sugar” from a “daddy”. Aka a young woman who gets money from an older man (for sex).

You might like the idea of sugaring as some sort of paternalistic “uplifting” but that doesn’t mean that your definition is the only one.

^^ Icee, are you educating us again honey? It's always cute when a 20-something year old girl shares her deep wisdom with guys twice her age and with 50 times her experience. Keep up the good work kiddo. 😉

Hey Icee, if by "getting played" you mean having farmyard sex in a hotel with a beautiful girl half my age, then paying her money that I won't miss anyway so that she'll leave with no additional expectations of me, then I guess I'm really being duped. 😆

Now of course you'll tell me that she's just a hooker and I'm a trick and that she does it for anyone, at which point I'll respond that I've been doing this long enough to know the differences between low volume and high volume girls. Then you'll ignore that experience and retort that I'm just a trick who wants to feel special and that I'm deluding myself...rinse, repeat.

Then I'll once again throw up my hands in dealing with a girl who can only think in binary terms and has far less experience than she thinks she does, yet feels that she's positioned to lecture guys who have been doing these things since before she was wearing a training bra (and in some cases before she was born) and say...

Icee, are you educating us again honey? It's always cute when a 20-something year old girl shares her deep wisdom with guys twice her age and with 50 times her experience. Keep up the good work kiddo. 😉

Drew. No I don't have a misconception. I'm aware that for many idiots on here everything is just a euphemism for laying a hooker. When I had sugar mommas it was about sex but also about being a trophy and treated as such. The opportunities were worth it more than just the money at times.

Rick you get played by believing a hooker has only a few tricks and you're special.

Iceydodo has trapped herself in her own "logic trap". It stems from the fact that she's living a lie about herself and she cannot maintain this lie consistently.

Again she wants to convince herself that she doesn't need money (and drugs) to gain the love and affection and sex from a stripper whore. And, even though she literally gives junkie stripper whores a lot of money and drugs and they give her love and sex in exchange, just like she accuses others for being delusional when they do it, she too wants to believe that she's the special one when it comes to relationships with a junkie stripper whore. For whatever reason, her money and drugs is different than everyone else's. And desperate junkie stripper whores want her for totally different reasons than they want other tricks.

And on sugaring is where she's trapped. So what does she do? Rather than admit she pays junkie stripper whores for the SB experience and is thus a trick just like everyone else, she's now trying to change the narrative of sugaring and state that it's totally different than a trick-hooker relationship. Now she wants to believe that sugaring isn't about the sex anymore. Rather it's now about "bettering the life" of the sugar baby. It has nothing to do with paying for sex anymore.

Such is the life of Iceydodo. When you live a lie on top of a lie on top of more lies, it eventually catches up to you and you get caught up into it. 🤭🤡😂😂😂

Icee, are you educating us again honey? It's always cute when a 20-something year old girl shares her deep wisdom with guys twice her age and with 50 times her experience. Keep up the good work kiddo. 😉

Drew, I think your attempted use of reason and logic in this thread is admirable but misplaced.

You're tilting at windmills.

LOL instead of her own delusions and euphemisms on paying drugs and money to junkie stripper whores for GFE, Iceydodo so wants to believe everyone else are idiots for using euphemisms themselves.

LMFAO again her money and drugs are "different" when it comes to paying desperate junkie stripper whores. 🤭🤡😂😂😂

Cim go troll elsewhere. You're so weird you don't even know that fat contents affects how implants look. But keep using sugarbaby as a euphemism for hooker

LMFAO Iceydodo knows for sure that the junkie we whores that she gives a lot of money and drugs to aren't doing it because they are junkie whores. How does she know this for sure? Because the junkie whores are telling her otherwise. 🤭🤡😂😂😂

Cmi: I’m afraid I’m more of a Panza than a Quixote.

Iceydodo is incapable of comprehending any other logic other than her own. She is incapable of opening her own mind to other possibilities besides her own. She is myopic in this way.

Drew panda represents pragmatism and reality over idealism and fantasy. Thank you for the comparison

What are the girls expecting as far as money for SB (with sex that is, without sex is stupid to even discuss)? Is it still this allowance type of a thing or is it more per meeting?
What is the going rate?

^ It's going to depend on the SB, how hot she is, how open she is, the regions, her needs/wants, your needs/wants, etc., etc., etc. Some will require an allowance, but others are okay with pay-per-meet. Some are actually escorts, so their rates are out there already, really. Others are dancers (you can see the lockers in the background of their images), so their rates might be roughly the same as if you were asking for OTC (plus dinner perhaps). She might want you to take her shopping, or pay for specific bills, etc., rather than just give you a rate.

There's really too many variables. But, I'd start by looking at the rates for escorts in your area and expect to pay somewhat more than that if you're looking to just meet a girl and have sex. Others here have more experience than me, but it's sort of like asking "How much are extras?" It's a pretty broad question.

But there is still some general guide isnt there? like how much are we talking approximately for an "allowance." Do hotter girls expect like 1K per week for allowance or less/more?
Also, what site should I go to to generally find escort rates and maybe even consider one?

"But there is still some general guide isn't there?"

Nope.

"...like how much are we talking approximately for an 'allowance.'"

Whatever she decides she's worth. Or whatever she can get you to pay. Or something in between.

"Do hotter girls expect like 1K per week for allowance or less/more?"

Probably less but sometimes more. Depends on the region and the girl.

"Also, what site should I go to to generally find escort rates and maybe even consider one?"

Eros.com. TER (The Erotic Review). Or search for escort agencies in your region. Google is your friend.

Likely more likelihood of extra fun with SB sourced from a club vs a civi, as she's already closer to the related activities. There is a risk that a civi may view it merely as a way to score some quick cash "easily".