No Fucks Given

Good on you. A lot of guys think management automatically takes the dancer's side.

Who was the girl and where was the place? ROBs deserve to be named and shamed.

Yeah I don't play that bullshit either. I'm walking the fuck out and if we gotta go all the way with it then we gotta go there. I'll take that lifetime ban.

PL's gotta stop getting BULLIED out there.

An old man arguing with a girl is pathetic. Should have just paid her for 10 dances and walked away

Icey is trying to be an insuling A-hole as usual. But I agree on part of what he is saying. I would have given her the $200, stared at her, then told her to go get the manager. I don't argue with dancers.

^ Insulting. I can't type.

"I have been doing strip clubs so long, I actually get a hard-on for conflict and toying with ROB's."

Everybody has their own approach to things. I do occasionally enjoy watching a ROB get frustrated as she empties out her bag of tricks, but I try not to spark drama.

"I am positive this dancer gets away with robbing 90% of the customers she dances for. She was hot as hell, and too many strip clubbers are just cucks."

Probably, and you're right there's probably too many guys that are passive about stuff like this. Particularly if they are casuals.

"Later, I told some of the more honest dancers on the main floor what had happened. They were aware some of the younger dancers were trying to charge customers $20 per every three minutes."

So this is literally an explanation for the difference between her count and yours. Provided to you by dancers.

"All of the honest dancers said they count by the actual song."

Or these are the dancers who aren't able to squeeze more money out of customers using the special 3 minute math. I've run into other clubs that charge by time no matter how long the songs are, but it's usually more time than three minutes.

"They were aware some of the younger dancers were trying to charge customers $20 per every three minutes. All of the honest dancers said they count by the actual song."

So what were the "honest" dancers doing about the younger dancers ripping off customers? Probably nothing. They should go to management / house mother and complain.

Advantage of pay before when you're buying a bunch of sonqs. Never get more than one or two at a time unless you know the dancer well.

Sinclair can take care of himself you cucks! Lol

If I’m with an unfamiliar dancer, after the first song I know if I’m going to continue or stop so I’ll say tell me when we reach 5 dances and I’ll decide to keep going or quit - or if dances are $20 I’ll say let me know when $100 is spent or $200…

I have never run into someone trying to get a certain amount for a 3 minute block of time versus a song count before.

"Never get more than one or two at a time unless you know the dancer well."

To me this is overkill. If you're getting a bunch of dances and she's not letting you her count, just ask her about 4 or 5 songs in what the count is. If your numbers are close (like within a song) no big deal. I've had way more dancers undercount than overcount if I get a bunch of dances all at once.

"I have never run into someone trying to get a certain amount for a 3 minute block of time versus a song count before."

There was a club or two in Philly that did dances that way. I had to pay for the first song going in and then it was pay per 4 minutes I think. 5 mins sounds too high so I think it was four.

"... An old man arguing with a girl is pathetic ..."

What makes you think

“… An old man arguing with a girl is pathetic …”

What makes you think @Sinclair is old – AFAIK he’s in his 30s and may not be past 35; he’s just been in the game a long time and the way he posts/writes one would assume he’s older.

There are different levels of ROBs:

+ some count on the PL being distracted and not keeping count of the songs, or not being sure, and thus the PLs pays up b/c he’s not really sure how many songs he did and some ROBs depend on this particularly when it’s multiple dances

+ some ROBs just DGAF – their “business model” is to ROB *every* custy they can whether he gets one dance or 10 of whether the PL is distracted or not


I don’t feel comfortable going past 2-songs w/o getting on the same page w/ the dancer - the more songs go-by the more of a chance for a sometimes legit misunderstanding or for ouright getting over-counted/ROBed.

As I’ve posted in the past; my clubbing style kinda leads me to run into over-counting issues more often than perhaps the avg SCer – thus my M.O. is to typically tell the dancer upfront b/f we start to let me know every time she starts a new song – depending on the club I even go as far as using my cellphone-stopwatch to keep track of the songs or more precisely how long I’ve been getting dances that way I can be more sure - after doing this I’ve never paid and over-counter (in the past I would sometimes b/c I wasn’t 100%-sure on the count).

But even doing what I now do, I still have hardcore ROBs *still* try to over-count-me - when I tell a dancer to tell me every time she starts a new song ,some will “conveniently” forget halfway thru, and some will miscount on purpose and for example go from “this song #3” then the next song they’ll say “this is song #5 (or #6)” – I’ve had others try to tell me it’s a new song halfway thru the song; etc – hardcore ROBs DGAF and they will ROB unless one stands-their-ground; but unfortunately too-many PLs don’t or don’t-wanna-bother and why the ROBs keep ROBing b/c in the end most PLs pay up.

I’ve stopped using the “lets’ talk to the manager” thing – I’ve found it’s a crapshoot at best – sometimes the “manager” is as big a douche as the ROB (if not bigger) – other times he doesn’t know what happened and assumes it’s the custy trying to not pay the dancer; etc – so I’ve stopped using the “let’s talk to the manager” thing – I show her I’ve timed the songs (some still don’t give a shit); then I pay them for the songs we did and she can take it or leave it (I’ll just put the $$$ beside her and she can take it or leave it) – most of the ROBs will just take the $$$ and leave it at that once they see they can’t bully you – but some hardcore bitches will still get the “manager” or sometimes a bouncer they are friendly with and try to use them to get you to pay up the extortion – I don’t pay up as a matter of principle and prefer to leave a club b/f paying a ROB - but IME most ROBs tend to use the “I’ll get the manager/bouncer” thing as a bluff b/c it often works w/ most PLs but they usually don’t as it’s just an intimidation-tactic – some ROBs already have a bad-rep in the club and they don’t want to get the manager/staff involved.

I *have* on occasion talked to a staff person about the incident after-the-fact and in “some” cases it lead to them dealing with the dancer – one time a manager in a dive made the dancer give me back the $$$ she overcharged me and then she was told to leave the club – the ROB in question had actually been previously suspended from the club for overcharging customers and had just been allowed to start dancing again after the suspension (and why there are ROBs that just DGAF no matter what one does) – this has kinda become my M.O.; on occasion I may talk to a manager or staff person after-the-fact and let him know what’s up – I don’t necessarily expect anything to come of it but at the very least they become aware of what she’s doing (in case the staff cares; which sometimes they do and don’t want dancers ROBing custies and potentially affect the club/club’s biz).

Then all half hour spent with her was questionable. If I spent more than 10 mins with a dancer means we have mutual trust.

I feel like shit like this is why biz is so dead in a lot of clubs. A lot of clubs are already deader than they should be if they are on the cleaner side cuz they just lose business to the naughtier clubs honestly. Then we got girls trying to pull slick shit too and it's like no wonder dudes don't come out like they used to. Sure, ladies keep on blaming the economy. But let's be real, there are still insane amounts of men who are still doing well financially and can afford this shit. It has fallen out of favor due to a variety of reasons. I'm sure a good % of it is these chicks that try and scam literally every guy. Not saying I am an angel in that. Sure I've been a jerk to dudes, but I've never been the type to try and get 1 over on every dude even if they're fair to me or whatever.

I’m gonna use the NFG squad on everyone I see who I piss off. As gas as I know, I’ll play a little game called “Me First”, and not cave into BS from anyone who comes along my path.

Blah, just don’t twist that knife in one’s and you’ll be forgiven.

Sucks when the only option is to pay by the song. Or a song is like $25, but a half hour is like $350 or something (with some vague or just plain stupid bullshit about how much better it's going to be than just getting songs).

It's only a few of the PLs who get sloppy drunk that go around annoying others. But they do encourage scammy strippers. Cause they're super easy to scam.

I feel sorry for my fellow PLs with a constant need for strange. Generally sticking with known favs is the least aggravating strategy to not have to deal with scammers.

I can understand these girls doing that scammy stuff if a customer is dumb/annoying/acts like a dbag- and is generally asking for it. If they are well behaved and spending, I think it is rather dumb to try and scam them like that.

I confirm the number of songs every 1-3 songs. I will neither argue, nor get ripped off.

Note start time, then average 4 minutes a song. But give whatever the dancer ask. Avoid her next time. Also, put the name here.

That happened to me at the Diamond Club in Atlanta not too long ago. I paid her for the 4 dances that I counted and told her that if she had a problem to go get the manager. She didn't.

I'm not being insulting. If I were in my 60s I'd feel foolish arguing with a much younger dancer I got 10 dances from. Over the cost of 5 more. I'd pay her and tell her to do what she wants and walk away.

Should op go on a whine fest a la 25 or a tourettes or alzheimers laden tirade like skibum?

I have a lot of regulars. They want to keep that steady income stream coming in, so they don't try to scam me. I don't try to scam them either. I had a regular who was so drunk one night she walked off without collecting her money after our lap dances. I ran after her and handed it to her. The next time I came in she remembered that and told me a lot of customers wouldn't have done that. In a good regular relationship, both sides tend to be especially nice to each other.

@Skibum has the right idea. Just count. Might distract you but I'd rather be a bit distracted than a bit ripped off.

I'm rarely an extended song-by-song dance guy so I don't see this a lot. But even in a timed VIP, I prop up my phone so we can both see how much time is elapsed/left.

@ChampPhilly: "But give whatever the dancer ask."

Not no, but *fuck* no. She gets paid for what she actually did. Threats like those issued by this dancer are extortion, plain and simple. No one ever won by giving in to such.

Good for you, if more customers did that I'm sure less strippers would try it.

I've seen less of this lately, but I think its because I've actively avoided clubs where that shit is common. I used to go to both Tootsies & Diamond Dolls all the time, but I got sick of having to deal with that crap. "ohh, its an extra 25 for the room" or "it was 4 songs not 2" Hell, I had one chick tell me it was 5 songs when I stopped her in the middle of the first song she was so bad. All of em try to get all tough and threaten to get management. In all my time in strip clubs, I've never once had a strip club manager come up to me after refusing to pay an inflated dance count. But I've haven't been to either of those clubs in months & haven't had that problem in about the same time.

For me another problem is that if I've done 10 songs I'm probably tipping. Maybe not enough of a tip to cover a 50% over-count, for example in this case if the 10x$20 was $200 I'd have given her likely 240-260. When she tries to scam me, saying I owe $300 now I feel like I've wasted that 40-60 tip. That shit irks me and sometimes it's not out of mind by the time the next girl comes along, and in that case it hurts the next girl because #1 I'm not gonna get as many dances and #2 I gonna be less inclined to tip. And #3, as I said above, if it gets bad enough I avoid the club altogether. But even when its just isolated cases it still hurts the other girls.

I'm not sure I'd support crying to the manager about it though. I have a feeling the dumb solution strip club management came up with to prevent the problem may end up being worse.

If I do 10 songs it means the service was great, so I’m pretty happy about that. On the occasions when the dancer over counts it kinda ruins the post dance glow, but whatever. I have stress in my life. I don’t need it in the club. Like dolfan, I might add on what I was already planning to tip but I generally just try and leave the drama behind as quickly as possible. I’ve timed songs, had the dancer count songs and the other usual tips. That works fine, but sometimes I don’t do those things and it’s usually fine. Over my clubbing life, I know I’ve gotten way more extra time in rooms because management forgot about us than I’ve lost in overcounted songs. By a ton, so I don’t sweat it too much and just avoid that dancer or if the service was good, make sure to be clear about the count next time. NBD

You are one lying, stupid cunt Icee.

I wrote a post a while back, about some chick in cahoots with one of the floor guys at the porthole, I stood my ground, I don’t lay down for these types good on you @sinclair.
I’ve also stopped going to certain clubs I refuse to spend my money in shady locations, if I don’t feel comfortable or welcome and need to be on guard the whole time I’m there I have lots of better options.

hey dipshitscrub, i'm sure sinclair likes getting his dick sucked but i'm also sure he doesn't want it sucked by a maggot faggot so stick to your truck stop glory hole punk.

Hey Desert Turd, you were here in Florida for a club tour and you didn’t even have the balls to give us a heads up, I would have welcomed the opportunity to hear you open your piehole in my presence I’ll guarantee, you would be heading back to you sewer on crutches, with your mouth wired shut.

20fag you'll be in Vegas next month right?

I've been on here for about 7 years. I've probably read several hundred instances of guys on here calling each other out to square off in person.

But, after all that, have we gotten even one shaky YouTube video of strip club parking lot with a guy in a two-sizes-too-small "LDK is my Copilot!" t-shirt slap fighting another guy wearing a "I tried The System and all I got was this lousy t-shirt" t-shirt?

Even one video?

NOOOoooOOOhhhhhh...

LOL @CMI. Who were the two guys?

I'd buy _almost_ anyone here a drink, and give them a chance not to be an asshat.
If we have a good conversation, great.
If they're still an asshat, I'd excuse myself.

Not going to physically fight someone unless they really threaten me. I'm told I'm an intimidating-looking guy--large, muscular, with severe resting bitch face. That means trouble doesn't find me.

Over the years, I've had at least ten "if I meet you in person, I'm going to fuck you up" conversations. None _ever_ came to so much as a shouting match. One even became my clubbing buddy in Atlanta. I "fucked him up" on vodka cranberries. Then bought him some Cuban puss.

^ Oh, and none of those ten conversations I mentioned were here. All from 15+ years ago when I was "young, dumb, and full of cum." I'm only the last of those now.

I don't have a problem with girls charging higher than the going rate. I do have a problem with chicks blatantly always miscounting or surprising guys at the end after like 15 songs o by the way my dances r special and they cost double blah blah etc.

There is a right way to hustle and a wrong way I'm sorry. It is what it is. If she only do that when she is desperate imo being a scammer is better than being a whore. If she does that alllll the time with misleading every customer who spends on her, then I am sorry but that is bad for business. Especially when other girls see she does well and start copying cuz that is how clubs tend to work lol.

Lol Blah that’s where most PLs here will respectfully disagree with you. PLs like whores more than scammers.

Finessing isn't really scamming. Of he's willing to spend the money good for her on getting it. Doing the least for the most is the goal of any good hustle

^Duh. Dumb fuck.

Yeah I get what Icee is saying here, but scamming every time at some point ur business hits a downturn unless u always club hop. I don't give a damn how hot a girl is, if she stays in the same club for years, at some point a lot of people will know she is a scammer and it will definitely hurt her business.

I would like to clarify what I define as a scam.

I don't think it is a scam if a girl is vague about the private room, and the guy had a different idea in mind. I also don't think it is a scam if he intended on doing one dance then does 5 and is upset he has to pay up. I don't think it is a scam if a girl straight up tells you her dances cost double because you know that going in.

I consider it a scam when these girls start dancing on a guy say where the regular price is $40 a dance and at the end of the dances- the girl says "oh by the way my dances are special and i'm an pro so it actually costs $60 per song for mine". It is also a scam if a girl straight up says "I will do (insert sexually explicit act here)" then she doesn't do that but you already paid. It is also a scam when they say "sure I will meet you outside the club but first give me $xxx to show you are serious" then she is never to be seen again.

I know on this site guys will disagree with me. I personally think it is ok to scam a whoremonger here and there when the club is dry and you need money for bills but don't wanna be a hooker (nothing against hookers neither but i don't like to compete with them inside of the club). I do not think it is ok for some really hot chick or some regular chick who thinks she is hot but isn't to be scamming or attempting to scam literally every fucking guy every single time!! This is not ok!! And I know there are a lot of strippers these days that do/attempt to do that every time with every guy and I do feel like it has fucked up the biz.

Finessing is not the same thing as scamming. Finessing is when you are intelligent or hot (or both) enough to where you can get a guy who normally spends on hookers to spend loads on you. I am on that level. I just cannot be bothered with this shit the last few months. Yall can talk shit here and there about me being not the brightest of being stupid, but idk. I consider it a real compliment when dudes who are straight up whoremongers or normally only pay for extras spend like a few hundred or 1k on me or whatever.

Finessing is also speaking in a way to get guys to give you money, but it is NOT scamming.

What Icey is calling Finessing up there is not finessing. That shit is scamming. A girl not telling u her dances cost more till the end is scamming.

If a girl can hustle AKA finesse worth a damn, then she can tell u before the dances that her shit costs extra and u happily hand over the money. Now that is finessing.

"I personally think it is ok to scam a whoremonger here and there when the club is dry and you need money for bills but don't wanna be a hooker (nothing against hookers neither but i don't like to compete with them inside of the club)."

So scamming is usually bad but it's ok if you really need the money. LOL.

I personally think it is ok to name and shame scammers at every opportunity.

Ok sorry, I needed to reglance at first post.

Correction: A girl taking the number of dances n adding 50% more dances that actually didn't happen to get 50% more money is a scam.

Lol Tetra. I feel no shame if the club is dry and some weirdo wants a handjob and I lie and say I'll do it but give me $xxx upfront. If that is the difference between me going home with nothing or a few hundred then so be it!

I'm not even in the clubs these days so yall don't have to worry about me scamming anyways lmfao which FYI I VERY RARELY DID

^ Then you're a scammer, full stop.

No offense, but yall shouldn't be asking for sex acts in strip clubs in the first place.

Blah said "No offense, but yall shouldn't be asking for sex acts in strip clubs in the first place."

This statement reminds me of this scene from "Casablanca."

https://youtu.be/1H-PS_pr-t0

Offering something; collecting the money and then not doing it isn't scamming at all. It's called stealing. Everyone always tries to justify it. Technical term: Theft by false pretense. No, I don't care if every dancer does it. Not my business or concern and won't have any effect on me because as with my mechanic, no service, no cash. Maybe the customers shouldn't be asking for sex acts, but we're friggen guys, so it its offered, it ain't in our genetic make-up to say no thanks.

I think I’ve only gone home in the negative like 3 or 4 times before out of all the shifts I’ve ever worked. And admittedly I haven’t had many situations where I’ve felt desperate $$ wise, so I guess I’m lucky there. But I think I’d rather just do the cheap fucking than scam if I was forced into one. I grew up with a Catholic background, but despite that, I really disagree with the idea that having more sexual partners “ruins” women in any way. It may be a prudent or not prudent thing to do, but there won’t be any scarlet letters that will automatically appear on the skin and spell out “must always perform $50 blowjobs forevermore”. It’s a bigger psychological hurdle, however, to scam. When people lie to each other, people will subconsciously do things with their body language to reveal that that they are not telling the truth and it takes a lot of conscious training to overcome that. Most people (because we are a social and tribal species) are conditioned to also have a certain basic level of empathy for whoever is in front of them. And it takes a certain mentality to overcome the hurdle to want to deliberately cause harm.

I’d be more scared of what deliberately scamming customers would do to me long-term than other things. But that just because, like most people, I wasn’t a born sociopath so I have to consider my own biology.

I can agree with the lack of prudence though of cheap extras, however, don’t get me wrong. The most haunting example I can think of is the TUSCL Desire crew’s expressing their lack of gratitude for the value priced services they get by constantly publishing every minute details about the dancers for seemingly no reason whatsoever except for maybe make it easier for stalkers to do their thing. Like holy moly, I get the impression that club would be so dangerous to work at if there longer for maybe a couple of shifts and that should be a stark lesson for dancers everywhere.

Everyone does stuff that they shouldn’t and if you get caught and bad shit happens it’s called karma, me I believe in the golden rule
Theres this truism as well, it goes like this beware of how you treat folks, most folks generally see the same folks on the way down that they took advantage of on the way up.

Yeah yall take advantage of single moms and desperate and stupid girls dumb enough to fuck for chump change. The average girl and average customer aren't running through at least a couple thousand for sex services so it is basically cheap prostitution. Wanna lecture me about karma etc look at yourselves you sick fucks.

lol sociopath for a rare scam? no. sociopath because I am one, yes! empathy to losers who try and get sex services in clubs? fuck no. LOL empathy to someone who is a decent human being and not a pathetic piece of shit? sure! :)

lol! yall crack me the fuck up.

When guys get ripped off asking for sex in strip club, to me that's kinda like getting in a car accident when you're not wearing your seat belt. Not saying I'm glad it happened to anybody, but they chose to do something risky. Your asking someone to do something illegal, and then you're surprised they rip you off? And "the customer is always right" attitude is a bad plan. Gets you ripped off in strip clubs, and your food spit in at restaurants.

Me personally, whenever a stripper or escort undercharged, I always tipped her the difference. Sex work isn't easy, they don't need us taking advantage of their inexperience or lack of self-confidence. Generally the problem PLs are kiss up kick down types. If you don't do the kissing up, you don't feel the need to do the kick down.

LOL @ blah. Because any guy who partakes of a transaction for sex is an evil exploiter, and any woman who accepts is innocent and despoiled. Don't want to fuck, then don't fuck. No one's forcing you.

We're not always looking to get our dicks sucked. Just don't lie, and we're cool.

Personally I'm too jaded for anything other than FKKs right now anyways.

@tetra ‘We're not always looking to get our dicks sucked. Just don't lie, and we're cool.’

Maybe in the context of this thread nobody’s taking that position, but in the clubs? Tons of guys just looking for sex and cheating the dancers for whatever they can get. I don’t like dancers who cheat and lie, but when I get lied to or cheated, I usually find that I’ve made a mistake and not taken the usual steps to protect myself. As Mike McD said in Rounders “caveat emptor, motherfucker.”

"I know on this site guys will disagree with me. I personally think it is ok to scam a whoremonger here and there when the club is dry and you need money for bills"

Using this so-called "logic", it would be perfectly fine for me to agree to pay for a blowjob and then not do so, correct? Because I haven't had sex in a while, and I need that money for other bills...

@jimmy, I agree with the caveat emptor part, but would bet my retirement funds that TUSCLers pursue more extras in strip clubs than the average clubber.

If I get cheated--as I've detailed in several reviews--I'll at very least out the ROB. Yeah, sometimes I break my own rules and negotiate while I have a boner. That's dumb. But that doesn't excuse theft, any more than wearing skimpy clothes excuses sexual assault.

I agree 💯 with blahblah

^ We know you don't agree with anyone, you just want to start shit cause your a fuck up

@gmd to me it's a big diff if you ask for extras or if you're offered extras. There seems to be a big correlation between the "ain't worth it without extras" opinion about strip clubs, and having a lot of contempt for strippers. Contempt is not so easy to hid, especially if you're not trying to. Unless they live under a rock, men know that women generally find it extremely insulting if you offer to pay them for sex. You just can't assume that strippers are or should be a breed apart. When she OFFERS you extras, she's letting you know she's that breed apart.

Meh, I will just state my opinion that customers who are merely asking for sex are not automatic scumbags. They can be scumbags for other reasons, but not for just simply asking for sex.

Some customer last night when I was selliing massages made some obnoxious comment about “well if there’s no happy ending what’s the point” and then I walked off and came back later and he changed his mind and he wanted one and he bought a bunch of songs worth and gave me a $60 tip on top of that without me asking for that. Because he really felt that great afterwards. And that was for a legitimate back, neck, and shoulder massage and no other body parts being rubbed in the main floor of the club. So it’s not like these customers are completely incorrigible

Sex for money and customers asking for that is only really really scummy if somebody subscribes to “purity” beliefs that women need to not be boinking before marriage, or I guess nowadays, have had sex with only 3-5 dudes max since I’m sure at this point a lot of dudes would also feel uncomfortable with marrying an outright virgin. Otherwise, how the heck is anything they ask anything more than an annoyance? Or just simply too cheap. The customers crimes are on the same level as somebody wanting their computers fixed for free or something. Or the person who wants to buy that house/car below market value. Maybe they deserve a sarcastic comment or two, but not be scammed for their transgressions.

I guess anybody is entitled to their own opinions, but the people who adhere to those purity type of beliefs the most tend to also believe things like women’s ovaries shrivel up and go through menopause at the age of 30 and have more sympathetic views towards grown dudes fucking teenage girls. Y’know, because teenage girls are more “fertile” despite not having the hip bones yet to carry fetuses around as safely. (Plus they are more likely to be that aforementioned “pure”)

Now certainly there’s plenty of customers who subscribe to those beliefs of believing sex is degrading but then want to do that anyways, but that’s their own neurosis. But it’s tough to condemn anybody individually for that silliness when that’s just how American culture beliefs are. Oh whale 🐳

@nicespice, that's a great though somewhat separate discussion.

I don't want to date and sleep with virgins. They don't know what they're doing, and often have sexual hangups. I definitely wouldn't want to marry one and find out she's incapable of having a strong sexual relationship.

As for a girl who's slept with a ton of guys, it's not the having slept with a ton of guys that's a problem, it's that sleeping around reflects other psychological problems. Need for approval, and gets it through sex. Daddy issues. Incapable of holding down a guy, might be a cheater.
If a woman had a wild youth but it's in the distant past, or she got therapy and worked through it, I have no problem whatsoever.

It cuts both ways, though. Women don't like being a player's 1,000th conquest. Often, "players" and especially PUAs (pick-up artists) have severe approval-seeking issues that they try to drown out with sex. My "body count" is well short of a thousand, and some "good girls" have said "you might be too slutty."* And they didn't know anything about my mongering.

*Caveat: I love to date good girls and turn them bad. High-end professionals who didn't have time to fuck around in their youth. Which might be why I'm "too slutty" for many.

@ilbbaicnl: "to me it's a big diff if you ask for extras or if you're offered extras"

Gonna have to agree to disagree, I guess. There's nothing inherently wrong or immoral about requesting, or offering, money for sex. What *is* wrong is agreeing to a trade and then not delivering the agreed about items or services after being paid, or not paying after services or items have been delivered. I know how problematic saying "no" can be for some women in some places, but that's the proper way to respond to an offer one doesn't wish to entertain. Short of attempting a scam themselves, no one deserves to be scammed, regardless of which side of the transaction they're on.

@gmd unfortunately people like nicespice who think for themselves are fairly rare. If you tell some people they can't be real US patriot, and also support someone who stands before a crowd end encourages others to commit the crime of assault, they might feel entitled to throw a punch at you. If you propose to most women that they have sex with you for money, they will take that as you calling them a dirty whore, and may therefore feel OK about doing something nasty to you. Maybe such things would not happen in an ideal world, but that doesn't matter much. And, as is often the case, the root of the problem is the gubment. The best way to avoid strippers getting unwanted requests for paid sex is to make bordellos legal. Course, that might well be the end of strip clubs. And also, I wonder if most strippers aren't more annoyed by all the requests for free sex versus the requests for paid sex.

@ilbbaicnl: All of which is irrelevant to the question of scamming.

Better to be an honest whore than a thief, and that argument about not saying no is a complete cop out

Fat creepy old idealistic pervert it seems.

^ So go on a diet, exercise a bit, if you’re not happy with yourself, it’s within your ability to improve.

Boy, you really need to stretch an argument to a fantasy-grade breaking point to draw a line from the Jan 6 rioters to a guy in a strip club hoping for a blowie.

Omg trying to claim i subscribe to purity beliefs off of this.

Guys keep asking for sex services in clubs. This is fucking illegal. If I scam him it is illegal too, but he asked for something illegal.

Yall need to stop defending losers asking for sex or to finger a girl or a handjob inside of a club.

Go on Seeking Arrangement for that bullshit or some escort site.

Also HOW ABOUT WE TALK ABOUT ALL THE GUYS THAT SCAM DANCERS??? I WOULD ARGUE FROM WHAT I'VE SEEN THAT GUYS SCAM THE DANCERS MORE BECAUSE WE ARE SUPPOSED TO TRUST YOU FAGGOTS TO PAY UP??

BITCH PLEASE! PAY ME UPFRONT OR GO GET THE NEXT BITCH.

anyways yeah :))))

The tricks who troll clubs looking to rip off and exploit dancers coz bargaining for pussy is the only way they can get laid, are repulsive. And they know it. That's why they stay anonymous on here.

All these threads about bragging how they low ball desperate hookers or coerce broke girls are disgusting. They deserve to get robbed and more.

But their concept if being robbed is basically being finesse or being drunk and horny and having buyers remorse.

Thr worst shit is them thinking the hookers actually like them

Skibitch the fake lawyer. You should know that not going through something illegal is the right thing to do legally. You can't accuse someone of fraud theft whatever for not going through with an illegal act

Only weirdos have a problem paying dancers up front.

Icee said "That's why they stay anonymous on here."

What's your name?

Yeah Iceydodo and what about the anonymous wannabe/cosplay pimp types on here that troll strip clubs for junkie whores that give GFE for a steady supply of coke?

The worst shit is that they think these junkie stripper whores actually like them. 🤦🤭🤡😂

@blah: "Guys keep asking for sex services in clubs. This is fucking illegal. If I scam him it is illegal too, but he asked for something illegal."

Illegal is not necessarily immoral. Buying sexual services and selling one's body for sexual entertainment are no more inherently immoral than selling one's body for sports entertainment, or coal mining, or modeling, or dancing in a strip club.

"HOW ABOUT WE TALK ABOUT ALL THE GUYS THAT SCAM DANCERS???"

I *did* talk about it. It's just as despicable as dancers scamming customers. Neither of them is above reproach.

So are the coke head customers who don’t care about extras and can’t get it up anyways also really really bad transgressors for not following the law when doing their sniffing? (And using the pre-paid room time while doing that)

@nicespice, no, simple coke users are no more morally corrupt than simple alcohol or weed users. But, just like alcohol and weed, many coke users are then driving while impaired, which I *do* consider to be wrong.

Certain segments of our society like to characterize these types of victimless activities as immoral as an excuse for controlling others.

===> "Yeah yall take advantage of single moms and desperate and stupid girls dumb enough to fuck for chump change. The average girl and average customer aren't running through at least a couple thousand for sex services so it is basically cheap prostitution."

It needs to be a couple thousand not to be "chump change?" The more I learn, the less I know. 😉

This reminds me of a girl I spoke with a few times over the past few weeks. For some reason only understood by her, she keeps visiting me ITC, even though she believes that I "lowballed" her with my OTC offer a few visits ago. Funny enough is that she didn't share that view with me that night, but only during a subsequent visit, informing me that she would need "like 3 times that."

For additional clarity, the only reason I made the offer on our first meet is because I had also seen her on SA, so I figured that she was looking for something OTC. I rarely pursue OTC on a first visit in my local club unless I'm picking up a very strong vibe, which was not the case here. Frankly I should have trusted by gut more.

IME here's the reality: In most places (outside of a few expensive urban centers), a girl who won't go OTC for $500 won't go for 3 times that amount either. Contrary to popular belief around here, that's still a lot of money to a lot of people. There are still people who put a 40 hour work week in for not much more than that as their take home pay.

Btw in our most recent interaction, she let it slip that she doesn't sell her ass like some of the other girls do. Again why she keeps coming back to me after she already turned down my offer and knows that I'm not going to but lapdances from her IDK. The girl is a headcase for sure.

@rick: Do you spend money on her ITC?

@rick_dugan my former ATF DS was also an escort and she looked at escorting as her "big money" and stripping was just safe a way for her to find new business. And by "big money" she charged $300 per hour of OTC.

I'm just thinking. 10 songs? In a non extras dance? Who does that?

^why not?

I just took a dump: smarter and better looking than Icee.

I always do a ROB test with a new girl. I reluctantly say I'll do a dance.

That seems to.bring out the sweet or sour in a girl. The sweet ones think that this is her chance to upgrade, and the sour ones are pissy that I'm only doing a single.

I hate doing a three song dance with a new girl off the bat. I've had too many awkward experiences running the clock.

I think nicespice's story about the guy who "settled" for a massage (and loved it) captures the frustration non-extras strippers feel. Many guys could enjoy non-extras, but convince themselves and get convinced they're being gipped or being cucks if they don't get cheap extras. Blah has a point, guys who want extras have their lanes, escorts, sugar dating, the blade. Where is her lane, where nobody will sideswipe her?

Many of us remember the days when a rape victim would get asked if she was a virgin and what was her sexual history. These attitudes are more subtle now, but are not gone. Not wanting to be labeled a ho isn't simply a pride thing it's a survival thing.

^ I enjoy getting extras, but I also enjoy spending money on dancers who don't offer them. The two things are not mutually exclusive.

And there seems to be an impression that if a customer doesn't automatically pay the amount that the dancer initially quotes, then we're being "cheap" by default. Granted, there are guys out there who want the entire menu for awkwardly low sums. Those guys eventually find the clubs and dancers who will provide, but those aren't the dancers I like.

So, I pay well for what I ask for. At the same time, if a dancer asks for $1.5K for 15 minutes ITC, then I politely decline and wish them luck. I don't haggle. Dancers get to set their prices, have limits, and pick their customers.

There are bad actors on both the customer and dancer sides of the strip club equation. I try to not be one of the bad guys, but I'm afraid I don't do a lot of navel gazing beyond that.

Either just enjoy lap dances or go to the blade. All this obsessing and theorizing about hookers working clubs then being butt hurt when you can't find one makes you look retarded

^ Nah. I think I'll keep doing what I'm doing. Because it's working out well for me, and the dancers I see don't seem to mind taking my money. So... win/win.

At Club Desire (the only place I'm anything resembling a "regular" at), I'll take a girl for two topless dances and then, from her energy, decide if she's worth a VIP or not. Then if she passes the audition, I'll ask what her menu looks like before I go back there. It theoretically won't stop her from ripping me off in the VIP, but ROBs rarely play the long game.

Everything in a strip club, beyond what is written on a sign and enforced, could be considered a "haggle," but I'm not going to go ten rounds of negotiation. If their quoted price is above my range, I'll pass. The number of times they've lowered their range to mine in response to my "no thanks" could be counted on my fingers, and I've never had good experiences with someone who's been "bargained down." Bargaining for sex takes the fun out of it, especially if it happens in the VIP.

Of course, I feel jaded by American strip clubs. My lovely employer is bringing me back to FKK land soon.

@Call.Me.Ishmael: " I enjoy getting extras, but I also enjoy spending money on dancers who don't offer them. The two things are not mutually exclusive."

Exactly. Especially since one of the girls I currently spend money on, who will fuck me when hell freezes over, is turning into a resource for info on girls whose virtue is considerably more negotiable,without judging me for it. I cannot complain about that sort of thing. At all.

The 1-2k otc rates for otc mentioned earlier are ridiculous unless the stripper has hundreds of thousands of online fans and followers. The women who have millions of fans are successfully charging those rates. It would be uncommon for a regular girl or stripper to charge that unless she is extraordinarily special. If someone is quoting those numbers they may just be testing the waters. Or they really don’t want to do it.

You can ask someone for sex acts anytime anywhere. Waiters, bottle girls, massage girls probably get asked often.
Asking someone for drugs, paid sex, or anything else illegal doesn’t give them the right to rob you. This is the line of logic i have seen Icee and some ROBs use to justify scamming “he asked me to do something illegal so I can do something illegal and rob him”. The irony is a lot of these ROBs are themselves engaging in illegal activity whether stealing, drug usage, etc. imagine robbing anyone who comes up to you asking for drugs it’s a laughable way to think and behave. Some guy asks you for weed or an underage kid asks you to buy him alcohol and you’re like no but I’m gonna rob you now for asking for something illegal. Can you rob someones car too if you catch them illegally speeding?

In a dancers eyes if you're a pathetic bitch nigga trying to solicit her. She sees you as less of a man and just a trick. So yeah. You deserve to get finessed.

^ Finessing in real life earns you a beat down if you get caught, I’m betting you’ve gotten a few beat downs in your short life , right Iceefag

Go pay nice spice what you owe her shrub tard then go back to your hidey hole in the swamp, no one here cares about what you have to say
What a stupid fuck you are.

Icee you would literally rob someone for speeding or running a red light youre in no position to call anyone a “bitch nigga” and no, anybody doing any kind of “finessing” belongs in jail.

And the best way to be seen as less of a man is to be so desperate and in love that you pay thousands to a girl for free, pay for her college and pay for her parents living expenses.

20fag you'd beat a dancer for f8nessing you?

Cacaplop being a provider in a long term relationship is being a man. And you use money to better the quality of your life and of those close to you. I get it's something you can't afford and is beyond you.

Anyways all any of you are describing is buyers remorse that you spend money on dancers and they won't fuck you

Youre Talking about 200 years ago, being a provider is no longer relevant in the modern world. If youre paying for everything and paying for her parents and education you’re really just paying for a long term prostitute just not referring to her as that. And you were spending all this on a woman who by your own admission was fucking clients for a few hundred dollars. If she was getting all that money off clients why did you need to provide, or why did she need to have sex for money?

You have no right to talk about affording anything, i have a 100k watch collection and you’ve stolen basically everything you have. If you steal everything you own, you can’t really talk about affording something or spending money

I havent seen posts about buyers remorse and ive bought many lapdances where I was happy with the dance even with the girl not doing otc. A lapdance is still a service do you think people buy massages or other services then get mad if the person wont have sex?

^It's you who are fascinated by being a trick. You were a trick for years and years and years and years. That makes you fucking older than everybody here combined.

Weird flip side to the OP’s story about trying to count dances by the song length.

Some customer literally asked me how long the songs are and I said “usually between 3-6 minutes,but it can be random”. Then we go off to do a dance. After dance number #1 I ask if he wants to keep going. And he says yes. Then we do a second dance. Then he wants to count the two songs as one song because it wasn’t long enough time. 🤦🏻‍♀️ And I have to nicely persist and he reluctantly gave me what I was owed. Then he wants to continue. And I respond that he didn’t seem very happy with his dances. Then, “well then, make the songs longer” And then I told him maybe after other customers leave, then I might be able to control the music better and give him longer songs later in the evening.

But when that time finally came around, I just flat out wasn’t in the mood to deal with him and I’d rather just chill out instead. Some other dancer walked back to where I was and told me he wanted to dance with me again, and I said I didn’t want deal with him because he’s a lot to handle anyways even without being anal about song length. And suggested she do the dances instead if she feels like it. Which she decided to do, after I gave her the heads up. (She asked if me and another wanted could check the cameras though for her safety). And then she sold five dances to him, which went okay for her thankfully and the other dancer and I were perfectly happy for her to get the sale because we didn’t want to deal with him.

No clue where that puts me on any moral scale. ROB for changing my mind? Laziness? Idk but I have no regrets lol

Cacaplop stop repeating the trolls narrative about me and fuck off. Go troll someone else

@nice as long as the club isn't taking a cut from each dance, and there's somewhere to lay a phone down, you can negotiate the cost of a timed dance. But, typically the phone has to be visible, because the bell of the timer app isn't loud enough to be heard over the music. One dancer I used to do this with had an apple watch, and she could feel the timer go off in vibrate mode.

I'm barely skimming this at this point. When I was dancing I very rarely had offers under a grand to fuck just saying. So I think it is pretty common for 1 to 2k offers ime, and a lot of my dancing honestly wasn't even in primo cities lmao :) So I imagine maybe the numbers get better if a girl does regularly dance in primo cities etc. I just hate traffic and people etc all that shit to deal with that much sorry.

Honestly, a lot of time without intending I'd make all or a large chunk of my shift's money off 1 or 2 people. I was never anything particularly special imo but I knew how to hold someone's attention/interest which a lot of strippers don't know how to do without being real physical. So if I was regularly making whatever amt off 1 person, why would they offer that amt or less to fuck if they wanted that? Think about it for a second. Of course if my conversation and just dancing cost some amt then to eff me would obvs easily entertain a higher offer. Why is this so difficult to believe?

I feel like I have been very honest on these forums, sometimes to the point everyone shits on me. Whatever.

Even in fucking shit hole ass Portland before I quit dancing a few months ago I was still getting dudes entertaining 1 or 2k to fuck. I'm sure if I was actively hustling and wasn't just passively receiving and ignoring offers that I could go up quite a bit. You always get more when you actively hustle anything. Whatever if a guy wanted to pay me a few hundred to talk about sex with me or whatever the fuck I'm all ears. LOL

It amazes me that guys would pay that much money to fuck anyone on earth.

There's lots of nice looking women on tryst.link with rates of $500 - 800. But escorting only worked for me by repeating with favs. Usually I didn't click with a escort I hadn't seen before. Maybe PLs offer more for FS in clubs because they're more sure it will be good after getting good dances.

Whenever I've been offered cheap extras in a SC, she either looked unhealthy/strung-out, or was well into the cougar zone. Maybe it's the case that, if you are heavy drinker yourself, the effects of heavy drinking on a woman is less of a turn off to you.

When you look at the pics most guys post here. They're into crack head looking old types. Or just homely girls. Which explains why they're used to cheap pussy. I'm also thinking most are too broke to make a 1k offer to a girl. Or to sustain that kind of arrangement.

Blahblah is one of the few people on here with a real assessment of clubs.

^You post pics of plastic, fat, ugly, diseased looking pigs, so your opinion is s fucking worthless as you are. You don't even have a job so the idea you spend money is hysterically funny.

Nobodies really worth 1k for an hour on a repeat basis.

In what world are strippers charging and successfully getting clients for 1k an hour? What kind of client would regularly pay 1k per visit?

The only girls who can sustain a reasonable number of clients while charging 1k, are people with millions of social media followers.

For a stripper, maybe once a year or every few months she’ll be able to do a 1k OTC. Is that why you keep encouraging them to rob?

Cheap pussy is $100.
For $300-$600 you can get the best pussy. Above that you’re often paying for fame, or some sort of crazy fetishes.

And Icee you admitted to stealing over 10k in the BLM protests, so it doesnt mean much if you have bling or blow money at clubs.

@ilbbaicnl: "Maybe PLs offer more for FS in clubs because they're more sure it will be good after getting good dances."

Pretty much. I give my current regular stupid money because she gives me anything I want, and pretty much never says no. And referencing rickdugan's thread about sweet messages from strippers, she has been the one lately to text me "you want to meet this week" or "when are you available".

If a guy pays $200 or $300 for lapdances it doesn’t necessarily mean they’ll pay more for OTC. With ITC the club is taking a significant portion of the earnings, so $300 OTC is more valuable than ITC.

Its not as straightforward as “he paid me $300 for dances so he’ll pay more for sex”. Its more like theyll get dances once or twice then stop paying anything

Even with full service OTC, even if its as cheap as $300, it may only last a few weeks. There’s always competition and other dancers or escorts

The hottest thin any woman has said to me in the last 10 years just happened when my wife came back from the casion and said "I just hit a slot machine for $6,700.00 on a sixty cent bet.

Wow. The legendary dinosaur hit a nerve here…
Sorry if I sound like a cuck, but I will generally not make a scene on the rare occasion that I encounter a ROB. I really don’t go to strip clubs to find conflict. I am more inclined to let it slide than to confront a ROB. I did have one occasion at Diamond Dolls in Pompano, FL circa 2015 where a Cuban ROB blatantly miscounted dances and got very loud and animated when I questioned it. Rather than make a scene, I paid her and went back to enjoying myself at the bar.
Later that visit I happened to make eye contact with a gentleman who I thought was a manager, but turned out to be the Owner, or part Owner. He came over and asked how my evening was going, and I said … “well, since you asked, I was cheated by one of your girls” and I proceeded to give him the details. He comped my drinks for the remainder of the night, and I found out later that the girl was fired. I take no satisfaction from knowing that I got a stripper fired, but I feel like the issue was handled appropriately by the club.

I think the 1 guy who has a hard time believing decently high ish offers are common must be in like Florida or Texas where girls are very very cheap and mentally deficient lol. I've heard in the best of the best places aka Manhattan that absurd offers are not uncommon. I think my only real regret is I never made my way up the east coast which I think I would have liked.

Why all this ageism? Fuk off.

The old guy has everybody right stand up to some bitch trying rip him. She probably whoring with frat rats at her college.

^ Why can't you spell 'fuck' correctly?

Also, complaining about ageism and then making a baseless "whoring" assumption about the dancer probably isn't the substantive point you'd hoped it would be.

The people talking about these super common $1000 otc offers are often people who’ve stated dancers have the right to rob or scam customers. Of course $1000 otc is common when you can just steal or pickpocket for it

Cim can you post something other than trolling?

Cacaplop I guess you learned from the geriatr7c trolls here and now just make up narratives to suit your delusions. Right?

@BTE: “ The people talking about these super common $1000 otc offers are often…”

From what I can see, the people here talking about $1000 OTC neither bug nor sell pussy, and certainly not with any regularity.

Stupid post button…. BUY not bug. But you get the idea…

Debates on here about pricing are occasionally entertaining or enlightening, but only occasionally.

I think we all know that there's some fantasy-land real estate between what many dancers say they ask for and offer versus what they actually ask for and offer. Simultaneously, there's also very often a reality gap between what the customer says he pays and gets in return from the dancer versus what he actually pays and gets for it. And then there's the whole subjective soup regarding how hot a dancer is on a customer-by-customer basis. So, that affects real versus perceived value, etc.

If you're happy with what you got for the money you paid (and you can afford to spend that money), then hakuna matata. Good for you. No one should care beyond that.

I will point out that, at least around here, there's only two dancers I know of that ask for $1K for FS (even OTC). And yes, they're really hot, but there are plenty of other just-as-hot dancers who want significantly less than that. But, if those two dancers have found guys willing to pay them that, then good for them. There's likely more dancers in that price range that I don't know about, but they are almost certainly in a small minority.

Ultimately, though, I don't care what other guys pay and what they get. It doesn't affect me.

So, if it's ok for a stripper/whore to scam a pl because she really needs the money, is it ok for a really horny, but broke pl to scam the girl?

If after the session the guy feels he didn't get his money's worth, he was scammed. In any transaction all parties should be up-front and forthright.

Some clubs, like regular bars, try to be good to the customers so they'll come back. Other clubs figure if they have hot chicks the guys will come even if the girls are scamming bitches. The hot chicks/scammer bars will always side with the hot chick if there's any dispute, because you as a customer are easier to replace than she is.

Of course the key to not getting scammed/robbed by these whores is negotiate first, be prepared for drama, don't pay first, don't give them your coat or car keys.

And by the way, a dancer who agrees to extras but doesn't deliver after being paid is still a whore, and she's also a thief.

Cmi: this in line with what l’m thinking. Sure some dancers ASK for $1k fs. But do they actually get it? And with any regularity? I’m sure icee has stories of $1k-$2 otc’s from his stripper friends, and I wouldn’t be surprised if that happens occasionally in a hedonistic destination like Las Vegas. Probably happens in Monte Carlo as well. But for the majority of p4p transactions? I see little evidence to support rates beyond the typical $300-$500 rates we read about on tuscl.

I think someone else mentioned this, the 1-1.5k range sounds like something girls throw out when they are trying to avoid fs.

PL2 said "If after the session the guy feels he didn't get his money's worth, he was scammed."

Nope. At least to me, there needs to be a degree of deceit or falsehood in the mix for it to qualify as a 'scam.' If it's just about perceived return, then any transaction where I'm any degree of not satisfied would automatically be a scam. That doesn't track for me.

But, based on your posts, it's not hard to imagine why a greater number of dancers decide that they can live with scamming you.

Pussylicker if you got genuinely scammed the club may not side with the dancer. They may not want scammers in the club. And they dont want girls offering extras to everyone.

$500 is a good rate for someone 9/10 or above. The $1000 rates involve some level of fame, or desperation.

If she agrees to extras but doesnt deliver, shes just pretending to be a whore, not an actual whore, unless she is delivering for at least one person.

Icee youce made posts saying people who dont offer $1000 for otc are being disrespectful, cheap, greedy poor etc. then made posts claiming you apparently tipped $5000 at a strip club for fun. Youre trying to normalize these odd behaviors

Cacaplop basically you lied about me.

You can't fathom not being broke or having a few dollars to burn. Or just helping people out. That's your problem.

But it is disgusting watching greedy men talk about exploiting hookers.

LMFAO Iceydodo, the self admitted cosplay pimp, is disgusted about someone exploiting a whore. When that's exactly what pimps do.

That's rich as fuck. 🤭🤡😂😂😂

Lol what.

Firstly, I have never just grabbed $1k from a customer and run off or whatever you are implying.

If I wanted to, it would have been easy to scam these otc offers. All you have to do is get some muscle to work with you to literally rob the dude otc. But no I don't and have never done that. I think it is good to be aware that these setups do happen, and I've definitely heard about it. Some things are just not for me.

Also, I dont f rando frat party creeps. In fact I've never casually fucked a random in my life, and if I started to fuck randoms, it would always be for pay lmfao.

Anyways, idk why some dude or dudes are salty that $1k or $2k is a common offer. It isn't like I took these up or tried to get the offers.

This is like me being salty I still don't have a professional career well underway and some of you are probably doing well in that regard. I'm not gonna hate or have some weird jealousy or whatever this is. I'm just gonna keep plugging away and working on myself. Yall don't make sense sometimes.

Remember the reports of the rates Elliot Spitzer paid 12 years ago: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eliot_Spit… .

Personally, I'm not salty.

But I am saying that, around here, $1k to $2k asks are pretty rare, even amongst the hottest local dancers. I'm also not saying that the hottest dancers are bargain basement prices. I don't know, perhaps it's a geographical thing, because I know that dancers aren't giving me discounts because of my good looks...

Anyway, to any woman (dancer or otherwise) who can ask that much and get it, then absolutely go for it. More power to them. But if a hot woman makes the offer to me at $500 or $600, I'm not the silly Muppet who's going to say, "You know, you should really double that number."

$1k and up isn't that out there. If you're in a city then it's not uncommon. Hating on girls who get those offers or can ask that much is pathetic

But you can't expect broke tricks to understand

Icee youre trying to normalize odd behaviors like $1000+ OTC , tipping thousands.
$1000+ gets you famous girls with millions of followers. If someones paying that much for otc with a dancer, especially on a regular basis, they don’t have awareness of the market or are really in love with the dancer.
It really has nothing to do with being broke, more about stupidity and integrity and awareness.
You’re encouraging people to be dumb and ignorant and misleading them about the market.
Its like telling someone hey this watch is worth $1000 but dont look it up online and dont discuss it with anyone on social media. And in reality its worth $300.

But Icee you always back the dancer even in cases where dancers have killed or robbed people, and youve said you believe dancers should be free to rob clients as they please.
So trying to normalize $1000+ otc, tipping thousands on stage fits into that. You really want to help dancers make as much money as possible. But you’re going about it the wrong way.
And to refer to people on here as broke tricks when you admitted to stealing over 10k (that you then blew at clubs) is laughable

Cacaplop fuck off and make shit up about someone else. Also get out more coz you have no idea how anything works. You're not even a good troll.

Show me where I said anything you claim I said. You can't coz you're just a troll

https://tuscl.net/discussion.php?id=5817…

"Im hoping if nothing else, she misses the money. She won't find this elsewhere...it was a lot. A few hundred a day, some days over a thousand."

^^^IceyDodo post June 12, 2018. 🤭🤡😂😂😂

https://tuscl.net/discussion.php?id=5853…

"- You're going to have to spend money. It will get her attention and make her notice you ITC. Don't get dances though. Learn shit like making flowers and hearts out of bills and give her a few hundred dollar bills just because."

^^^IceyDodo post June 30, 2018. 🤭🤡😂😂😂

@BigThirdEye you're right. Iceydodo is just trying to normalize her own behavior which is to pay and give drugs to junkie stripper whores for GFE. She's just that desperate for it. 🤭🤡😂😂😂

You can keep making shit up and obsess over me and troll me. Just makes you look crazy

LMFAO I didn't make up any of those posts. They are your words directly. Stop being a delusional butthurt trick bitch over your own posts. Just makes you look like delusional butthurt trick bitch.

You pay stripper whores a lot of money (LOL "...it was a lot. A few hundred a day, some days over a thousand.") for GFE. The only women you can get are desperate junkie stripper whores. This is all from your own posts. 🤭🤡😂😂😂

I mentioned that to Icee before and he said its the mans duty to provide for the woman. That’s why he paid her college bills and her parents living expenses. Cause its manly and tough

That's all part of the GFE. Iceydodo doesn't wanna face the fact that she can only get desperate junkie stripper whores with (a lot of) money and drugs, so she tells herself those things. 🤭🤡😂😂😂

Icee said "You're not even a good troll."

Well, for once you're commenting on a subject where you have a level of expertise.

He complimented himself referring to himself as a traditional family man, provider man,

She says those things as a coping mechanism. She's really just exploiting the desperation of junkie stripper whores. She wants them dependent on her for drugs and money, and to cope with the guilt of this, she pretends she's being altruistic.

You clowns are trolling me and acting like not being broke and being able to afford shit in a long term 5 year relationship is bad 🤡 and were working on things.

Cacaplop skibitch et al just make shit up. Sld goes on autistic tirades and goes stalker taking things out of context from a thread that was just an emotional rant.

I feel sorry for the woman if you ever have a long term relationship.

The worst thing you can say about me is that my lifestyle is better than yours 🤡😭😭😂😂😂🤑🤑🤑

LMFAO Iceydodo you're so butthurt. It must take a toll to be living the lifestyle of needing a lot of money and drugs to get a ratchet coke junkie stripper whore that preferred a broke weed dealer instead. And to top it off you staged a faux suicide attempt over it. 🤭🤡😂😂😂

You must be butthurt and mentally ill to post the same fake narrative and out of context quotes to troll me in random threads for years.

LMFAO nah, my niggette, I just like trolling the biggest trolls. Especially the ones that are clueless about it. It's funny as fuck. 🤭🤡😂😂😂

Spoiler alert: you can't fake direct quotes.

Also BTW Iceydodo I'm posting per the thread topic. You think it's normal to pay a whore $1000 because it is normal for you. This is based on your own posts about stripper whores. For example...

"Im hoping if nothing else, she misses the money. She won't find this elsewhere...it was a lot. A few hundred a day, some days over a thousand."

^^^IceyDodo post June 12, 2018. 🤭🤡😂😂😂

Icee, you blew 5k at a strip club but it was after you robbed 10k in the blm riots.

Maybe you have a nice lifestyle but it was all from robbing so it means nothing really. Even millionaires dont blow 5k at the club like it’s nothing.

Icee its just a natural thing, to the moral man, thief behavior is despicable, so when you post online bragging about the crazy things youve posted, its only natural you’ll get people calling you out.

Btw the word is etc, where did you come up with et al? Lol

Even if you earn the money legit, it's still pathetic to need to pay a whore thousands a day just so she'll wanna be with you. And then to call it a "relationship" makes it epic level pathetic.

Cacaplop show me where I said I stole 10k. You can't coz you're a liar. Go troll someone else.

SLD she's my girl and we lived together for 5 years. In an emotional state I said if nothing hope she misses the money. Big deal. And so what if she was spending 1k or 2k a day. It was things for the house. And her money went into my account too. Stiff for the both of us mostly. You're retarded calling that p4p. We spent whatbwe could afford. And why wouldn't I get her nice bags or things she really wanted.

Trying to make spending money in a relationship seem nefarious shows how fucked up you are.

We had problems no one is perfect but we're working on everything. You don't give up on someone you live and who loves you.

You never bought a wife or long term girlfriend a bag? Or let her buy stuff for your place? Or jointly pay her school? You let her struggle on her own when you live together half a decade?

You're a one trick pony. Go troll elsewhere retarded bitch

LMFAO Iceydodo is still trying to equate giving money and drugs to a coke junkie stripper whores as being in a "relationship". Even after she fucked other guys for coke too and dumped her for a better source of coke.

Keep telling that to yourself Iceydodo. 🤭🤡😂😂😂

Trying to convince yourself that ratchet coke junkie stripper whores just want a "normal relationship" with you shows how fucked up you are. 🤭🤡😂😂😂

And you keep repeating the same lies for a few more years retarded bitch

LMFAO I'm repeating your literal posts, delusional RIL trick bitch.

https://tuscl.net/discussion.php?id=7636…

"My 5 year relationship ended ...

...She started fucking other guys for coke. And she ended up with a broke ass bum wannabe pimp junkie.

She called me controlling and obsessive for finding everything out and wanting her to come back to me.

When I found out she denied everything. Now 4 months later she still denies it.

She pretends to have this perfect life on imstagram. Showing off designer shit I gave her. Pretending like they're in love. When he sells her pussy so they can get high."

^^^Iceydodo post 6/24/21. 🤭🤡😂😂😂

Fact #1: Iceydodo gives a lot money and drugs to junkie stripper whores.

Fact #2: A junkie stripper whore will say and do just about anything for drugs and money, especially if she's a junkie addict.

Conclusion: Iceydodo is no different than an RIL trick bitch.

🤭🤡😂😂😂

Keep repeating your sick narrative and scour tge site for shit to post out of context. You post the exact same shit for years. Sjg never even went full sld on here.

Anyone can read my whole posts.

Now hurry and keep posting yhe same lies for a few more years.

LOL the irony is that it's your own sick narrative that I'm posting. 🤭🤡😂😂😂

I have already said a number of times, most of my dancing was not in major cities. Maybe I got consistently decent offers because I was in smaller cities with less competition. Maybe it is because I am not advertising selling pussy or don't come off that way so they know they should raise the price. Maybe it is because I am really good at unintentionally getting 1 or 2 guys to make my whole shift aka I often tend hold their interest well. I am not doubting you all that say you guys can get ridiculously hot girls for only like $600 or w/e to fuck in populated areas. I am wondering if it is all the other girls selling pussy that lowers the prices. Same time though for some places like LA where the prices of rent and gas are fucking retarded, I am almost in disbelief at some of these low numbers. But then I also know of California girls that have gone up to dance in Portland and they will like let you eat them out for $200 lmao so idk. Perhaps this is a combination of casual culture and too many hos in 1 spot making shit cheap.??? Same time I have somewhat followed some girl's posts on another forum who escorts in the LA area I believe and she certainly makes good fucking money w/o working a whole lot, but she also doesn't dance anymore.

Anyways I guess I am somewhat offended at what nicespice said about some purity beliefs or ideals or w/e the fuck. I do not have a problem with girls hooking. I do have a problem with them not doing it for high rates or fucking up sales for girls that are *strictly* dancing. Do I consider stripping sex work? YES. Anybody that considers it "just dancing" is fucking delusional and lying to themselves I'm sorry to say.

Even in a hypothetical squeaky clean club that doesn't exist these days with pure air dancing and no contact whatsoever anywhere at any time- is not the whole point to excite the male sexually and tease them?

Idk I am rambling, don't mind me.

"Even in a hypothetical squeaky clean club that doesn't exist these days with pure air dancing and no contact whatsoever anywhere at any time"

^^^@blah since you dance in Portland, have you been to the Acropolis? It's as close to an air dance club as there is around here.

And I agree that stripping is "light" sex work, given the point of it.

@blah "I am wondering if it's all the other girls selling pussy that lowers the prices"

Certainly. By definition, supply and demand drive pricing. Lots of girls selling pussy, prices go down. Few girls selling pussy, prices go up. Pdx is low on extras, so pl's are willing to spend more bc that's their only option (in the club). Hell, you weren't even selling, and they came to YOU with a higher than average number. Classic scarcity. Here in seattle there are several girls on any day shift willing to sell pussy. And thats not just the indie clubs, it's the chains too. Pricing varies, but 300-500 will get the job done.

I have been there years ago as a customer but never tried to audition there. I know the ceiling leaks and hte club is visibly very filthy tho.

Given that I sit on the customer side, this is all speculation as to a dancer's reasoning on prices.

I don't doubt that dancers who are very hot *and* have exceptional charisma/sales talent can get much higher payments than most dancers of comparable looks.

That said, I also think that talking two guys into paying $600 for FS is a much lighter lift than talking one guy into doing the same for $1K.

So, whether they're charging $600 because they're not as good at selling or they just because they don't want to try as hard, I don't know. Regardless, there are a few hot dancers around here who ask for $1K, but there are more hot dancers who want between $400 and $600 (plus or minus).

I definitely think location and population are big factors as well.

Well I apologize if what I said was offensive, but I’m not sure what I said about ethics has to do with either your individual sales ability or other dancers undercutting and making services cheap. Also if anything, I think the past two years has caused that behavior to lessen somewhat.

I just thought it was odd that you described scamming as a general bad thing, but was just scratching my head at your explanation of when it’s okay to roll on forward with doing that after all (when you haven’t made the money you wanted that particular shift). But you’re welcome to whatever beliefs you have. Heck, I’ve been DMing with somebody recently and from how she describes things, she scams because she dgaf and no argument about ethics or internal beliefs would probably phase her and she seems pretty comfortable with herself on that front. If that’s where you’re at, then my opinion on anything is just an opinion and it doesn’t matter at all.

@nicespice: "I just thought it was odd that you described scamming as a general bad thing, but was just scratching my head at your explanation of when it’s okay to roll on forward with doing that after all (when you haven’t made the money you wanted that particular shift)."

Yeah, me too. There's a word for a person who does that sort of thing.

The word for this sort of thing is complexity.

@gmd would you honestly be fine with it if someone walked up to your wife/daughter/sister/mother and offered her $100 for a blowjob?

Some may think that, if a woman decides to become a stripper, she implicitly gives permission to be made such propositions. But there´s valid arguments for why that isn´t the case.

Best to let women indicate they clearly invite such propositions. A be thankful they give us that option, rather than classifying them as subhuman because they do.

@ilbbaicnl: "would you honestly be fine with it if someone walked up to your wife/daughter/sister/mother and offered her $100 for a blowjob?"

Straw man.

The posts to which nicespice and I are referring are ones in which the poster called scamming a bad thing, but then admitted to doing it when circumstances were in their favor. That's not "complexity", that's hypocrisy.

@gmd most of us tend to do things we otherwise consider bad to people we consider to have wronged us.

It´s hypocrisy to do to someone else´s wife/daughter/sister/mother, who happens to be a stripper, what you don´t want done to your own.

@ilbbaicnl: "It´s hypocrisy to do to someone else´s wife/daughter/sister/mother, who happens to be a stripper, what you don´t want done to your own."

Another straw man.

Yes it would be, but since it has exactly zero to do with what nicepsice and I posted about, it's a totally moot point.

@gmd Everyone can use their own judgement, whether it´s moot to be a hypocrite while making accusations of hypocrisy.

You keep referring to nice as an authority. I´m assuming this means you see her as the Supreme Deity and Ultimate Arbiter of Truth. I see her as merely the goddess of sarcasm, perfect boobies, and truck stop showers.

nicespice is a better Supreme Deity than Yahweh, I´ll grant you that much. I don´t think she has smote even one random Canaanite. Not so sure about blah though.