tuscl

Afghanistan

mark94
Arizona
Sunday, August 15, 2021 6:02 PM
Just five weeks ago, President Biden assured Americans: “[T]he likelihood there’s going to be the Taliban overrunning everything and owning the whole country is highly unlikely.” In the last 72 hours, the Taliban has taken over the entire country. The Afghan President has fled. Billions of dollars of US weapons are in the hands of the Taliban. The 300,000 member Afghan army has effectively surrendered. It’s not just Biden’s fault though he was exceedingly incompetent. For 20 years, a series of US Presidents spent $2 Trillion trying to make a primitive land of tribal factions into a modern democracy. It was never going to work.

254 comments

  • gSteph
    •
    3 years ago
    It would suck to be Afghan, but I think we should have let it go many years ago.
  • twentyfive
    •
    3 years ago
    We should have left right after we killed Bin Laden, that was the objective wasn't it.
  • gammanu95
    •
    3 years ago
    Why is it that whenever the American military has to tuck its tail and run, there is a democrat commander-in-chief? Saigon, failed Iran hostage rescue, mogadishu, and now Afghanistan. Anyone with a half a brain and the will to speak the truth knew that Biden was going to be a foreign policy disaster - particularly militarily. Man, I'm tired of being right! Well, let's see what the knee-jerk liberal reaction is on TUSCL.
  • mark94
    •
    3 years ago
    I saw an interview with a former special forces commander. He had proposed using 3,000 embedded special forces, at a cost of $3Billion per year, to stabilize Afghanistan in 2001. The Pentagon chose to build massive bases at a cost of over $60 Billion per year.Of course it did.
  • gammanu95
    •
    3 years ago
    ^Military Industrial Complex.
  • twentyfive
    •
    3 years ago
    ^ I saw the same interview, but the guy was the same commander that when we had Bin Laden cornered in Tora Bora in 2001 refused to allow special forces to go after him in the caves, instead he outsourced it to the Northern Alliance warlord as a result it took another 20 years before we left so I wouldn't put too much faith in anything that guy was saying
  • Tetradon
    •
    3 years ago
    What @desertscrub said. Our exalted leaders are digging for silver linings--we built schools for girls, and cell phone towers. The military exists to kill the enemy, not as a permanent humanitarian mission. I don't fault Biden for not throwing good money (and lives) after bad.
  • mark94
    •
    3 years ago
    I’ll wager that every Afghan political “leader” managed to flee with millions in the bank. Meanwhile, the translators who helped us have been left behind to be slaughtered by the Taliban. Sickening.
  • Muddy
    •
    3 years ago
    A nation needs an IQ of above 89 to hold a democracy. Afghanistan’s average IQ of 84 is just not enough. Fuck being politically correct when fellow soldiers lives on the line. It was never going to work. I have to agree with Nancy Pelosi on this. I hate that lady but she’s right. We could go another 50 years and it would be the same result.
  • mark94
    •
    3 years ago
    I think Biden had the same option that Obama had in Iraq. Leave behind a few thousand troops to prop up the government. Both chose not to. Would it have worked ? No way of knowing.
  • doctorevil
    •
    3 years ago
    The problem, or at least one of many problems, in Afghanistan is we never really made a full effort to exterminate the Taliban. We kicked them out of their home base in Kandahar in late 2001, they dispersed to remote provinces, and we never really made a full scale effort to go after them. In war, if you're not taking the initiative, you're losing.
  • mark94
    •
    3 years ago
    We also aligned with Pakistan, which was actually supporting the Taliban. The Taliban command control was in Pakistan but weren’t allowed to go after them there. I think every general officer in the military should be canned and we should start fresh with new leadership. Something similar should be done with the CIA and NSA as well. Fucking clean house.
  • Papi_Chulo
    •
    3 years ago
    As others have mentioned, when one does shit halfway one gets mediocre results at best - often times the politicians get in the way and as it's often the case, war or not, the government fucks things up more than fixing them
  • Papi_Chulo
    •
    3 years ago
    It also takes the Afghans to wanna change - the way the Afghan army basically surrounded IDK if they were just scared or if they actually prefer for the Taliban to be in charge. The only way this could have somewhat worked out is to have a permanent US force similar to the Korean 38th-parallel
  • goodyman
    •
    3 years ago
    Not extremely educated on this topic but why does it seem like it is America's responsibility to take care of Afghanistan? Shouldn't other countries be helping out..
  • doctorevil
    •
    3 years ago
    "We also aligned with Pakistan, which was actually supporting the Taliban. The Taliban command control was in Pakistan but weren’t allowed to go after them there." Kind of true, but it really wouldn't have mattered if we aligned with Pakistan or not, and it didn't matter when we went into Pakistan to take out Osama Bin Laden. The Taliban are Pashtuns, a tribe that calls their homeland southern Afghanistan and Pakistan, an area that they call Pashtunistan. They don't really recognize either Afghanistan or Pakistan as their legitimate government. Most Pashtuns regardless of whether they are in Afg or Pak are not going to cooperate with us against the Taliban.
  • Studme53
    •
    3 years ago
    I don’t like the American Military and our tax dollars for World Police, but I do believe they should protect our interests all over the world. Apparently the fools in Afghanistan who believe in the medieval practices of Sharia Law are stronger and more aggressive the the ones with modern concepts of freedom. Why should I care? We should just bomb the shit out of the if they export terrorism. Biden, “The likelihood…is highly unlikely.” What a clod.
  • doctorevil
    •
    3 years ago
    "Not extremely educated on this topic but why does it seem like it is America's responsibility to take care of Afghanistan? Shouldn't other countries be helping out.." They were. Afghanistan was NATO's first combat deployment right after 9/11. They formed the core of ISAF (International Security Assistance Force) in Afghanistan, which included other nonaligned countries. France and Romania come to mind. Of course, they all pulled out when we got weak knees.
  • JamesSD
    •
    3 years ago
    The when and how the right time to pull out if Afghanistan will be an interesting topic for the history book. We were justified going in after 9/11. We got BADLY distracted by Iraq (Thanks, GW Bush!) Trump ran on isolationism and pulling out with his buddy Putin's approval at the US letting Russia run the middle east, but changed his mind at some point. Perfect do over probably would have been to form Kurdistan and pull out after capturing Bin Laden, although there are costs to that.
  • Tetradon
    •
    3 years ago
    ^ We went into Iraq because after 9/11, we wanted to fuck up an Arab/Muslim country to show the world that we still had a big dick. These "nation building" exercises, unless you commit to something like that Marshall Plan, don't work. And that might not have worked if we were more culturally different.
  • Icee Loco (asshole)
    •
    3 years ago
    The US created the Taliban in the first place. But it gained legitimacy in Afghanistan after the US occupation for not recognizing the occupation gov which only really controlled Kabul thanks to the US occupation. The new talibsn is different. It's their country the US should never have interfered since the 1970s
  • mark94
    •
    3 years ago
    “It's their country the US should never have interfered since the 1970s“ Except for that pesky incident on Sept 11, 2001.
  • Icee Loco (asshole)
    •
    3 years ago
    Al qaeda is a US invention as well. Afghanistan should never have been invaded.
  • mark94
    •
    3 years ago
    Were you alive on Sept 11, 2001 ? Because I remember it clearly. Every person in America wanted us to go into Afghanistan and kill those fuckers. The only question is what we should have done next.
  • Mate27
    •
    3 years ago
    I remember when Pat Tillman passed away in the spring of 2004. Wow, time flies when you have heroes protecting us overseas everyday. The military is a very big machine, and it may take time to restart it if necessary.
  • shadowcat
    •
    3 years ago
    Is that when "Some people did something"?
  • Mate27
    •
    3 years ago
    By the way, if we didn’t invade the Russians would have been there (or China). You’re now seeing the aRussians and Turkish ambassadors stay in Jalalbab, Afghanistan while the Americans and European ambassadors are rushing to the airport to leave. I assume the Taliban may have some understood pathway with the history of Russia (former USSR) occupying the area. Putin is sneaky that way, just sayin.
  • doctorevil
    •
    3 years ago
    "I remember when Pat Tillman passed away in the spring of 2004." Another complete fiasco. He didn't just "pass away." He was killed by friendly fire, the Army initially tried to cover it up, and tried to buy off the Tillman family by awarding him a posthumous Silver Star. A complete disgrace. Heads should have rolled after the true story came out. Don't get me wrong. Tillman was absolutely a hero. He turned down a multi-million dollar NFL contract and volunteered to be an Army Ranger, which would guarantee him combat deployments. But getting killed by friendly fire is not something a Silver Star is typically awarded for.
  • Daddillac
    •
    3 years ago
    We can debate the merits of the war and never come to agreement. I think everyone except the hardcore Biden apologists, many of whom led the charge of never trumpers but in actuality were as liberal as they come, I think we can all agree that Bioden was fucking stupid for what he said a month ago. If you even start to defend him, reverse rolls and assume it was trumps speech a month ago and then tell me you would be defending trump. There is no excuse for the shit Biden is doing to this country
  • RandomMember
    •
    3 years ago
    @Mark: "were you alive on Sept 11, 2001 ? Because I remember it clearly. Every person in America wanted us to go into Afghanistan and kill those fuckers. " _______ Yeah I do remember being in Silicon Valley at the time and everyone around me was wondering why we were bombing Iraq (not Afghanistan). Why? Tetra's explanation above is as good as any.
  • Tetradon
    •
    3 years ago
    @Random, it's the only explanation that works. We could have struck a deal for oil, and Saddam's tie to Al-Qaida was loose at best. Meanwhile, Saddam Hussein was still there thumbing his nose at us.
  • skibum609
    •
    3 years ago
    Biden, like all Democrats, is a bumbling, incompetent clod.
  • Lone_Wolf
    •
    3 years ago
    Trump wanted out too. Result would have been the same. Taliban is a religion. Impossible to eradicate. The real lesson is the futility in listening to our so called military experts. Their motivations have little to do with national security. We need, finally, to remember that next time they beat the drums of war. We'd still be in Nam had we listened to them.
  • skibum609
    •
    3 years ago
    Ahh yes Biden is just as good as Trump. Taliban is Muslim; they should be banned from this country. Nam was another fuck up by the Democrats, fixed by Republicans.
  • mark94
    •
    3 years ago
    “ I do remember being in Silicon Valley at the time and everyone around me was wondering why we were bombing Iraq (not Afghanistan).“ Wait, we bombed Iraq in Sept 2001 ? That’s not how I remembered it.
  • Lone_Wolf
    •
    3 years ago
    I recommend the documentary Resperto for anyone thinking we should stay. It is a dirt clog of a country that's not worth the lives of brave soldiers.
  • Icee Loco (asshole)
    •
    3 years ago
    The real lesson is the US occupation didn't better peoplea lives in 20 years. It enriched the pockets of a few jn exchange for a loyal puppet state . The Afghani military basically surrendered coz the soldiers are broke dumbfucks like their American counterparts. With the difference being they're intelligent enough to know that the imperial aspirations of the US and its stooges in Kabul aren't worth dying for. I hope the Afghanis find a better alternative now that the occupation is over
  • DoctorPhil.
    •
    3 years ago
    ^ To be fair Mr. Random is correct that we did not bomb Iraq in 2001 since that wa 2003. If I were being pedantic I might inform Mr. Mark that we did not bomb Afghanistan in September 2001 either as Operation Enduring Freedom(tm) began on October 7, 2001. But I would hate to pedanify Mr. Mark too much because he has made it clear that he was educated in logic, rhetoric, debate, and advanced bottle opening at his university. You don’t wanna cross brains with a guy that can successfully remove a bottle cap in less 1/2 hour (much faster if it’s a twist off) so just admit defeat now! If I were being extra pedandomaniacal I’d inform Mr. Gamma that the fall of Saigon was during the Ford administration and that Mr Gerald R. “Pigskin HUT” Ford was a Republican. But saying that might get me labeled as a pedantifying librul so I shan’t do that. Besides Mr. Gamma and Mr. Mark were BFFs who graduated valedictorian and salutatorian at their University of Advanced Logic, Rhetoric, Debate, and Silly Walks. Now you know Mr. Random! 😃
  • Icee Loco (asshole)
    •
    3 years ago
    And that alternative is for them to decide not us. Ps I fucked 2 Afghani bitches lulz
  • mark94
    •
    3 years ago
    I recommend Charlie Wilson’s War if you want to know how this started.
  • RandomMember
    •
    3 years ago
    Yes, it looks like we didn't invade Iraq until 2003. I remember indiscriminate bombing but I guess the details have grown foggy over the past 20 years.
  • DoctorPhil.
    •
    3 years ago
    ^ And I recommend “Big”. Tom Hanks plays a kid who turned into an adult and smashes with Elizabeth Perkins. Good fun! Two thumbs up!
  • mark94
    •
    3 years ago
    Another good movie is 12 Strong which shows how our military reacted in the early days of the Afghan war.
  • twentyfive
    •
    3 years ago
    Here's a little tidbit I bet very few of you so called patriot shad any knowledge of the last combat soldier to leave Vietnam was killed in the 9/11 attacks at the Pentagon, he died leading people out of the building after the plane crashed at that site.Max Beilke was in the Army for 20 years already by the time he deployed to Vietnam. He ended up losing his life during the 9/11 attacks.
  • Icee Loco (asshole)
    •
    3 years ago
    Footage of the taliban in the presidential palace reminded me of the right wing extremist insurgents taking the US capitol. But the tliban looks more peaceful doing it.
  • twentyfive
    •
    3 years ago
    I wouldn't pay Icee the troll no nevermind, I can visualize him pushing woman and children aside just to get a flight out of Afghanistan, because he's a coward, he has the luxury of criticizing people that actually have put their life on the line but we all know he's just a lowlife troll.
  • doctorevil
    •
    3 years ago
    You can't take seriously anything a dumbass like Icee says about Afghanistan when he doesn't know the difference between an Afghan, a person from Afghanistan, and an Afghani, the unit of currency in Afghanistan.
  • Icee Loco (asshole)
    •
    3 years ago
    20 years of war and occupation haven't done shit for our freedom but yeah many profiteers off the war and fuck them and the occupation forces. But they really did take the presidential palace much more peacefully than the trumpanzee insurgents took the capitol. Both religious nutjobs though
  • mark94
    •
    3 years ago
    “they really did take the presidential palace much more peacefully than the trumpanzee insurgents took the capitol.” No one from January 6 had a gun. Do you think the Taliban had any guns ?
  • Tetradon
    •
    3 years ago
    ICEE, surely you can't believe the shit coming out of your keyboard. It takes a special kind of dumbass to equate a bunch of rioters taking selfies and wearing horned helmets to the Taliban. If the rioters were half the armed-to-the-teeth veteran tacticians that CNN makes the right out to be, they would have done serious damage. As is, they're a fraction of a percent of the average BLM riot.
  • Icee Loco (asshole)
    •
    3 years ago
    American farbright Christian militias are the American taliban. Domestic terrorists are the American taliban
  • Tetradon
    •
    3 years ago
    ^ Whatever, man. Show me where they're shutting down girls' schools and universities and killing apostates. Show me the territory "Christian militias" control. You can't, because you're not just a dumbass, you're a lazy thinker who repeats a few talking points as if they're self-evident, and when you're refuted, you ignore or change the topic.
  • SanchoRG
    •
    3 years ago
    The Saudis did 9/11
  • wallanon
    •
    3 years ago
    The previous administration did start the timeline for withdrawal, however the current administration was under no obligation to follow it. And certainly not to direct the US military to drawdown in such haste (while ignoring obvious signs the recognized government would not survive) that the outcome was even worse than a universally questioned fiasco in Iraq which led to the rise of ISIS.
  • Papi_Chulo
    •
    3 years ago
    This is not only a takeover of Afghanistan; but this may allow Muslim terrorism (e.g. Al Qaeda; etc) to now reorganize and restrengthen again
  • Daddillac
    •
    3 years ago
    The media is no different than the people here that are liberals... Their guy says something stupid, something that aged worse than milk left in the backseat of a car in Miami... They ignore it. It would be nice if ONE of them had the balls to stand up and say Biden fucked that up... I'm not talking about the withdrawal, I'm talking about his speech a month ago. the one where he guaranteed what is happening now would not happen... Just one of you guys should have the balls to admit it, but I doubt you do.
  • Papi_Chulo
    •
    3 years ago
    ^ the left, which includes the media, has decided that the biggest threat to America is anyone who is not down with wokeness; and why the media/left won't hold Biden accountable for anything he does unless it's something not woke - just look how the bodies are piling up in many major American cities after the left decided to go to war w/ the cops instead of criminals; yet barely if any pushback/criticism from the majority of the media - the left and the Dems are more concerned w/ consolidating power than anything else including flooding our borders and high body counts in major-cities.
  • wallanon
    •
    3 years ago
    Aren't there enough threads already about issues with "woke" etcetera etcetera? We get it. Lots of posters here don't like it, whatever "woke" really means anymore. Woke politics didn't botch Afghanistan, even if you squint really hard to make the details fuzzy.
  • CJKent_band
    •
    3 years ago
    The undeniable reality is: “Wars are caused by one country's wish to take control of another country's wealth. There is almost always an economic motive underlying most conflicts, even if the stated aim of the war is presented to the public as something more noble.” “The America of wealth and privilege is hooked on war, without regular and ever-stronger doses of war it can no longer function properly, that is, yield the desired profits.” “The nature of American created wars is that huge corporations and the 1% of the world benefit and the people suffer in America and the world...”
  • doctorevil
    •
    3 years ago
    “Wars are caused by one country's wish to take control of another country's wealth." Bullshit. That happened routinely in the past, and happens some places in the world now, but name one war since WW II that the US fought for the purpose of taking over another country's wealth.
  • Papi_Chulo
    •
    3 years ago
    "... Woke politics didn't botch Afghanistan ..." The woke comment was a specific reply to @Daddillac's comment about the left/media aiding and abetting the Biden administration
  • CJKent_band
    •
    3 years ago
    ^ Jus a sample of the known wars, not including the “secret” Shadow Wars/ Black Operations. Korean War Cuba Vietnam War Gulf War (Kuwait and Iraq) Somalia Haiti Bosnia Kosovo War in Afghanistan There is almost always an economic motive underlying most conflicts, even if the stated aim of the war is presented to the public as something more noble...
  • Icee Loco (asshole)
    •
    3 years ago
    Doctorevil Iraq Afghanistan Libya
  • Papi_Chulo
    •
    3 years ago
    The Taliban is now also likely much better equipped after they take ownership of all the equipment and weapons the U.S. has supplied to the Afghan "military"
  • mike710
    •
    3 years ago
    Something that always happened in the Afghan war was that it slowed down a lot in the Winter. At least we could have waited a few months to make it a bit harder for the Taliban to sweep in. This bumbling is the kind of stuff that will lead to others taking advantage of the US. Haven't seen anything so inept since Jimmy Carter.
  • doctorevil
    •
    3 years ago
    Korean War Cuba Vietnam War Gulf War (Kuwait and Iraq) Somalia Haiti Bosnia Kosovo War in Afghanistan Dumbass. What wealth did we take from those countries? All of those wars were fought for geopolitical purposes, except for the last that was initiated to root out Al Qaeda and no one really knows why we stayed. You can argue about whether the geopolitics justified war, but to suggest they were initiated to take another country’s wealth is just stupid.
  • CJKent_band
    •
    3 years ago
    ^ There is almost always an economic motive underlying most conflicts, even if the stated aim of the war is presented to the public as something more noble...
  • doctorevil
    •
    3 years ago
    Answer the question. Go down your list and tell us what wealth we took from each of those countries.
  • Jascoi
    •
    3 years ago
    peace. ‘ can’t we all just get along?’
  • CJKent_band
    •
    3 years ago
    In addition to territorial expansion and resource gathering, America profits from the wars politically and strategically, replacing governments that do not fulfill its economic interests. America’s manufacturedwWars usually create a shortage in the supply of “commodities” for the war efforts which results in higher prices and higher revenues. Currently, the United States is the world's largest weapons manufacturer and exporter, profit is the most important objective of the military–industrial complex.
  • Daddillac
    •
    3 years ago
    Note that still none of the liberal posters have commented about Bidens speech a month ago.... which was at the beginning of this topic. They just deflect... a bunch of useless, ballless, assholes
  • doctorevil
    •
    3 years ago
    ^Yep, with CJKent being a a prime example. Notice how he can’t answer a simple question about what war the US allegedly started to take another country‘s wealth, which should have been very easy for him if there was any truth at all to his ridiculous thesis. Instead, all he can do is regurgitate progressive/communist anti-American slogans. I don’t know why ass hats like him and Icee don’t move to a “people’s paradise” like Cuba or Venezuela, or North Korea, if they hate America so much.Yeah, actually I do. It’s because they don’t want to live with new freedoms in abject poverty.
  • doctorevil
    •
    3 years ago
    “No” freedoms, I mean.
  • twentyfive
    •
    3 years ago
    ^ So I take it you blame this on liberals that's ridiculous, there's enough blame to go around, starting with why it took so long for us to get out, after we accomplished our objective, which was to kill Bin Laden, how in the hell was this going to end any other way ?
  • twentyfive
    •
    3 years ago
    CJ kunt and Icee are idiots and truth be told less than useless if you're responding to kunt the joke's on you
  • skibum609
    •
    3 years ago
    CJ is a progressive and progressives are liars and bigots. Icee is just a wanna be playa.
  • DoctorPhil.
    •
    3 years ago
    Leaving aside Mr. CJ and Mr. Icee, I’d like to return to something Mr Scrub said: “POMPEO jerked off marilyn monroe that caused 911 and the cow jumped over the moon, but trump did not catch it..” Now I’m as down with a good time travel conspiracy as the next guy, if only for the lulz. But I’m disturbed because you seem to be implying that Ms. Marilyn “Einsteinfucker” Monroe was a dude. C’mon man, if Pompeo followed a closed timeline loop to engage in sexual activity with Ms. Monroe he’d be a fool if he didn’t use all three holes! She was all woman. Einstein fucked her and he was a fucking genius/demented pervert! Side point...Mike Pompeo calls subscribers to his PAC the “PIPEHITTERS”. Make of that what you will...
  • mark94
    •
    3 years ago
    Given enough time, any organization becomes corrupt and incompetent. If that happens in the business world, that eventually causes bankruptcy and a complete change in leadership. Often, even that is too late. After 240 years, the federal government’s level of incompetence, corruption, and arrogance is staggering. It doesn’t matter whether Republicans or Democrats have won the latest election. They all suffer from the same rot. The waste in Afghanistan is a 20 year example of this. Bad decision after bad decision. Lie after lie, no matter who was in the Whitehouse.
  • DoctorPhil.
    •
    3 years ago
    * disclaimer for the overly liters and/or gullible: there is no evidence that Einstein fucked Ms. Monroe But c’mon man...is a universe where Einstein didn’t fuck Monroe worth living in? I HAVE TO BELIEVE IT HAPPENED
  • crosscheck
    •
    3 years ago
    National building was never going to work in Afghanistan. We never should have tried. Allowing Afghanistan to be a terrorist safe haven didn't work either, we got 9-11 as a result. If we now allow it to become a terrorist safe haven again, then it is just a countdown until we have another 9-11. We should have maintained a limited, but possibly permanent military presence to make sure that the conditions that allowed Al Qaeda to thrive and plan 9-11 do not happen again. The people we are fighting have a worldview that is completely incompatible with our way of life. The idea that if we just pull back and leave them alone that they will not seek to attack us is a dangerous fantasy. We can fight them there, thousands of miles from the USA, with people who are trained to fight them, and chose to serve, or we can fight them here with approximately 3,000 untrained commuters who were just going to work on 9-11. To me, that doesn't seem like much of a choice.
  • yahtzee74
    •
    3 years ago
    "CNN: President Biden expected to address nation regarding Afghanistan in the next few days" [view link] Next few days?! I would think that should be addressed immediately. Meanwhile White House Press Secretary Psaki has left an automated message that she'll be out of the office for the next week. [view link]
  • mark94
    •
    3 years ago
    Yesterday was VJ Day ( Victory Japan ). Last time America won a war. 76 years ago. Now coincides with DA Day ( Defeat Afghanistan ).
  • wallanon
    •
    3 years ago
    "It would be nice if ONE of them had the balls to stand up and say Biden fucked that up... I'm not talking about the withdrawal, I'm talking about his speech a month ago." This is for Daddillac: [view link] Not much else for me to say on this. I typed a few different things out, but I've already gotten my point across in other posts.
  • mark94
    •
    3 years ago
    The Whitehouse released a photo showing Joe on a telecall with CIA operatives, outing them in the process. Heckuva job !
  • Daddillac
    •
    3 years ago
    Thank you wallanon, towards the end of the article outlining how Biden mishandled the withdrawal they did address his speech from a month ago. From 25 "^ So I take it you blame this on liberals that's ridiculous, there's enough blame to go around, starting with why it took so long for us to get out, after we accomplished our objective, which was to kill Bin Laden, how in the hell was this going to end any other way ?" You are right, there is plenty of Blame to go around on this... I never said it was only liberals fault, if I did then show it to me. What I did say is that liberals (people like you) will not address the absurdity of Bidens speech a month ago and instead will deflect to another point.... Which you did by posting the above quote in response to my post. Thanks for proving my point
  • twentyfive
    •
    3 years ago
    So he screwed the pooch, so has just about everyone else who've made statements about Afghanistan, none of the presidents involved in this fiasco got it right, I bet he makes a statement owning his responsibility. It's not my point I haven't proved anything actually, except that J n J is the best stock ever !!!!
  • Daddillac
    •
    3 years ago
    LOL... I know JNJ is the best stock ever, everyone knows thast is the only stock you will ever have to buy My point is that anyone who is a Biden supporter has to have their arm twisted before they can admit the guy fucked up and even then they cannot do it without saying "so did everyone else". However if the roles were reversed and Trump made the speech a month ago then the Biden supporters would be banging the drum about how stupid he is and starting another impeachment process
  • misterorange
    •
    3 years ago
    You know it's bad when even CNN isn't trying to cover it up. First time I can remember that they are actually reporting what's going on. I fully expected them to give this fiasco about 30 seconds of air time, but they are in full Biden-bashing mode. Wow. On the John King show they are comparing it to the fall of Saigon and the Bay of Pigs.
  • Salty.Nutz
    •
    3 years ago
    The US should build a fence around Afghanistan. they should have a civil war and if the tailban win no one is allowed in or out. when are the afghan men going to start protecting their own from the tailban?
  • mark94
    •
    3 years ago
    The U.S. State Department on Sunday instructed Americans in Kabul, Afghanistan, that their best chance of survival is to “shelter in place.” In other words, the Biden administration is essentially advising Americans to hide.
  • crosscheck
    •
    3 years ago
    This isn't Saigon. This is Phnom Penh. Has anyone here ever seen The Killing Fields? The fate of those left behind in Afghanistan, particularly those that cooperated with the US and other western nations, is more likely to resemble the hell of Cambodia after its fall than that of South Vietnam. One was bad. The other was a least several magnitudes worse.
  • mark94
    •
    3 years ago
    The Pentagon is leaking stories that Biden didn’t follow their recommendations. The finger pointing within the administration is just getting started.
  • Icee Loco (asshole)
    •
    3 years ago
    The Taliban are poorly armed and vastly outnumbered. They won coz people see them as freedom fighters and the one group that never sold out to the occupation. And during their initial rule. The US UAE and Saudis were the only nations to recognize them. It is like the fall of Saigon. The war was won with hearts and minds It's their country.
  • mark94
    •
    3 years ago
    The big question is whether the Taliban will take Western hostages. They certainly could. Hundreds of Americans and Europeans remain in Kabul. This could be the ( Jimmy Carter ) Iranian hostage crisis times ten.
  • Call.Me.Ishmael
    •
    3 years ago
    It's amazing how quickly you guys rise to the bait lazily laid out by both Icee and CJkent.
  • Icee Loco (asshole)
    •
    3 years ago
    I think they desperately want legitimacy right now. If they don't form an inclusive government Afghanistan will just continue in a state of civil war. But it shows you how myopic people are. The Taliban is a CIA creation and the US was the only western nation to recognize their rule. And now they're seen as a symbol of sovereign resistance. The US considered them allies and freedom fighters now they're evil oppressive terrorists once they bit the hand that fed them.
  • skibum609
    •
    3 years ago
    At its' peak the taliban was recognized by Saudi Arabia, the UAE and pakistan. The US never recognized them and as all young liberals do, Icee lied, lied incompetently and should be spat upon. Fucking liar. The Taliban is just another sick, disgusting group of Islamist terrorists supported by the Democrats. Biden who fucked up badly, ran away on vacation, as did his chief whore, Jen Psaki. Fuck islam and any person who believes in it.
  • Papi_Chulo
    •
    3 years ago
    Yeah Trump was also planning to leave Afghanistan but at the end of the day he didn't
  • Daddillac
    •
    3 years ago
    Something else to think about... The head of the Taliban has a twitter account.... Trump's was suspended permanently for hate speech Are you fucking kidding me? Twitter pull your head out of your ass
  • Icee Loco (asshole)
    •
    3 years ago
    What really interests me is the role of amnesty in national reconciliation.... its a basic tenet of Islamic law in cases of armed conflict. It's vital for the taliban as is cooperation and inclusiveness in the new government. If Afghanistan spirals into civil war again it will be much worse.
  • Icee Loco (asshole)
    •
    3 years ago
    And the US has been having peace talks with the taliban for years. This end game was known to be inevitable over a year ago. The speed was just surprising
  • mark94
    •
    3 years ago
    ICEE expects amnesty and reconciliation from the Taliban. The U.S. embassy in Kabul said Wednesday that it was receiving reports that Taliban members were executing surrendering Afghan troops and unlawfully detaining some members of the government, including military leaders, provincial officials and police officers.
  • twentyfive
    •
    3 years ago
    It's all over, it'll take a few years but the real story will come out eventually, one thing I take from how this went down is that it was all preplanned, and there was some orchestration between the Taliban and the U.S. military, I find it interesting to say the least that the Taliban are doing crowd control at the entrance to the airport, and the very laid back demeanor of the U.S. Armed Forces on the ground in Afghanistan's airport, another piece of reporting says the previous Afghan President Ashraf Ghani, left in a helicopter overloaded with U.S. dollars and he also somehow took four large sedans also loaded with U.S. dollars, where he ends up we don't yet know but these are new developments and it certainly sounds like it's true, but it will be a while before we actually know all the facts.
  • Papi_Chulo
    •
    3 years ago
    Well - at least the Biden administration can't go to their go-to of the Taliban being white-supremacists
  • mark94
    •
    3 years ago
    The Whitehouse has released its talking points ahead of Biden’s speech. It boils down to: 1. Unlike other administrations, we wanted out of Afghanistan 2. We planned out all contingencies and were prepared for whatever happened 3. The Afghan army failed but we knew that was possible 4. Right now, we are executing our plan exactly as needed given the Afghan Army failed
  • Papi_Chulo
    •
    3 years ago
    ^ somehow they'll blame it on Trump and white-supremacists - LOL
  • goldmongerATL
    •
    3 years ago
    Looking at the utter chaos, I would not be shocked if the someone in the mobs climbing all over our planes plants a bomb.
  • bang69
    •
    3 years ago
    Biden is a idiot
  • mark94
    •
    3 years ago
    The Washington Post is reporting that Biden didn’t evacuate the Afghan women who were activists for female rights. They’ve been left behind to be gathered up by the Taliban. The next few weeks are going to be heartbreaking.
  • Tetradon
    •
    3 years ago
    "Don't underestimate Joe's ability to fuck things up." - Barack Obama
  • mark94
    •
    3 years ago
    Saw a former CIA say that, whenever we’ve evacuated in the past, the order has always been the same. 1. Evacuate civilians 2. Embassy staff 3. Military In Afghanistan, the first evacuees were the military.
  • Papi_Chulo
    •
    3 years ago
    From what I've heard Uncle Joe is on vacation while people are getting slaughtered in Afghanistan
  • misterorange
    •
    3 years ago
    This fucking asshole flew back from Camp David to Washington, made a 15 minute speech, didn't answer a single question, and is now returning to Camp David. Why not just give the speech from Camp David? Do you have any idea how much cost and how many resources are necessary to air lift this jackass 60 miles?
  • mark94
    •
    3 years ago
    Just heard someone point out that Biden is complaining about spending $1 Trillion over a 20 year period. Meanwhile, he has $4.5 Trillion of new spending being pushed in Congress.
  • Papi_Chulo
    •
    3 years ago
    "... countless other AFGHAN's have died trying to cling to the C17's as they are taking off ..." That tells you the desperation of those folks - sad AF - for many their worst nightmare is gonna come true if they can't make it out
  • Papi_Chulo
    •
    3 years ago
    They could have gone about it a different way and avoided what is looking like a terrible humanitarian crisis
  • Papi_Chulo
    •
    3 years ago
    ^ at least they could have minimized the humanitarian crisis
  • Icee Loco (asshole)
    •
    3 years ago
    Did you care so much when Trump was conducting peace talks with the taliban and a potential power sharing move as the US was getting ready to pull out?
  • mark94
    •
    3 years ago
    The reports are multiplying about public executions and Taliban going door to door with a kill list of collaborators. A British security force was told that thousands of especially brutal Taliban are being brought in tonight and the Brits better leave before they arrive.
  • mark94
    •
    3 years ago
    “Did you care so much when Trump was conducting peace talks with the taliban and a potential power sharing move as the US was getting ready to pull out?” The issue is not whether we should get out. We should. Trump campaigned on getting out. The issue is HOW to leave in a manner that doesn’t lead to mass killing. Trump was negotiating a process for that. Reportedly, Biden simply told his military to pull out immediately. That’s why we are seeing the chaos and carnage now.
  • misterorange
    •
    3 years ago
    @2ICEE "Conducting peace talks" and discussing "potential power sharing" are logical precursors to an orderly withdrawal. Folding the tents and hightailing it out of there is something different you stupid dickhead.
  • mark94
    •
    3 years ago
    Except we didn’t fold the tents, or load the howitzers, or destroy the ammunition. We left it all behind for the Taliban in massive warehouses. How many Americans will die from those weapons ?
  • mark94
    •
    3 years ago
    ICEE seems to have repeated the false claim Biden made in his speech. We needed to get out and shit like this is inevitable. No, it’s not. This is a complete lack of competence.
  • goldmongerATL
    •
    3 years ago
    Just saw an Al Jazirah report on BBC that reprisals against activist women has already begun. They said one was dragged from her house, mutilated while still alive and left to die in the street.
  • mikeym
    •
    3 years ago
    After World War II, the US was debt free and the best country before liberals like mark94 thought it best to spend US taxpayer dollars on shit holes like Afghanistan. Now the US has trillions in debt and crumbling infrastructure. As the third most populous country, the US should produce better citizens and culture. Instead it has shitty strip clubs, fucking dike bitches who make PLs pay $hundreds to beg to go on dates, and fat ass smelly cellulite bitches who are revered as the paragons of society.
  • mark94
    •
    3 years ago
    “liberals like mark94 thought it best to spend US taxpayer dollars on shit holes like Afghanistan.” For the record, I supported killing Al Qaedi. I opposed nation building, then and now.
  • mark94
    •
    3 years ago
    Also, for the record, out of total federal spending. 30% is Medicare/Medicaid, 25% is Social Security, Defense is 15%. As I recall, foreign aid is about 1%. At the end of WW2, SS was almost nothing and Medicare didn’t exist. That’s over half of the Federal Budget in 2021.
  • skibum609
    •
    3 years ago
    Biden's plan was to run away. In fact, in 2010, when Biden was asked what we should do about the afghans who helped us; he replied: "fuck em". If you're a Democrat, you're scum.
  • sinclair
    •
    3 years ago
    Are there any Afghan National Army units still in the field? All 200,000 deserted? Talk about a paper army. I saw some fled into Tajikistan and Uzbekistan. Looks like the Taliban now has over 8,000 Humvees, 600 M1117's, and 150 MRAPs. Your tax dollars at work. Sleepy Joe thought he was going to be able to brag he was the guy that ended a war. In actuality tens of thousands of innocent people will end up dead and tortured. What is next? Will Sleepy Joe pull our troops out of Germany, Iraq, Kuwait, and South Korea?
  • Salty.Nutz
    •
    3 years ago
    ^^ exactly ^^ [view link]
  • san_jose_guy
    •
    3 years ago
    I'm not pretending that I understand this situation. But I just look at the images and I hear the news, it sounds so much like the 1975 fall of Saigon. SJG
  • misterorange
    •
    3 years ago
    Keep the faith my friends. I have confidence in Joe. He's a tough old bastard and won't stand for this much longer. Right now as we speak, he's out behind the maintenance shed at Camp David cutting a 6-foot length of chain. He'll confront the Taliban leader just like he did Corn Pop.
  • Icee Loco (asshole)
    •
    3 years ago
    If you're really so passionate about regime change in Afghanistan. Go there and fight as mercenaries bon behalf of the former US puppet president....who is on his way to the US.
  • yahtzee74
    •
    3 years ago
    The reason I think Afghanistan collapsed so quickly is that US leaders seemed to expect it to fall eventually - some saying in 18 months. Since the US was pulling support and expecting the Taliban to win anyway then what would have been the point in fighting at all? The Afghani's probably thought they were better off to surrender now without a fight to gain some good standing with the Taliban.
  • mark94
    •
    3 years ago
    ICEE, you seem to be incapable of reading comprehension. Or, more likely, you pretend people are saying things that they never said because you know how to argue against those imaginary statements. I don’t think anyone in this long thread has said they are passionate about regime change in Afghanistan.
  • misterorange
    •
    3 years ago
    2ICEE you stupid twit. None of the people here you are opposed to support regime change in Afghanistan. Do you ever read or even casually scan through a thread before you post? Fucking dumbass.
  • Tetradon
    •
    3 years ago
    And China state newspapers are already flexing on Taiwan. Won't be long before Russia takes note in Ukraine and the Baltics. [view link]
  • misterorange
    •
    3 years ago
    ^ Mark you beat me to it. Lol
  • mark94
    •
    3 years ago
    Our bureaucrats and lackeys made sure that the Afghan government was lead by people just like them. Corrupt, globalist, politically correct toadies with low IQs. For example, we funded a graduate level gender studies program at Kabul University. In fucking tribal Afghanistan. In the final analysis, the Afghan leadership was disconnected from the countries people and culture. It is no surprise that the goat herders, spice merchants, and day laborers were open to fundamentalism.
  • mark94
    •
    3 years ago
    If Taiwan falls, we are fucked. It would take us 20 years to replicate the microchip supply chain. During the time, China would crush us.
  • skibum609
    •
    3 years ago
    Joe Biden is amazing. Only took him 6 months to become the worst President in history. The United States is the single worst friend any country could have, and even more so when a Democrat is President. Muslim terrorists and their supporters in Iran, Saudi Arabia, Minnesota, New York and Michigan, just won big.
  • doctorevil
    •
    3 years ago
    Check out this video of Afghans falling from a C-17 taking off from Kabul airport. This is far worse than the fall of Saigon. Total incompetence of the Biden administration. [view link]
  • CJKent_band
    •
    3 years ago
    The CIA calls it “Blowback”. when an “Operative” turns on them, its creators/handlers. Osama bin Laden with his al-Qaida group and the Taliban group of Islamic extremists are two of the the best known example of blowback In Afghanistan-Pakistan. The USA-CIA provided them with arms, money; and training on how to run a war of attrition violent and well-organized to defeat a superpower like the Soviet Union. And after the USA-CIA disagree with them about the power and money in Afghanistan they turned against the USA and defeated the USA with the experience they had from defeating The Soviet Union....
  • Studme53
    •
    3 years ago
    I didn’t and would never vote for him, and he’s not a deep philosopher, as the ancient Romans would say, but I agree with Biden about cutting bait in Afghanistan. “Our” Afghans clearly would never fight for themselves and we’d be their protectors forever.
  • mark94
    •
    3 years ago
    Everyone agrees we should cut bait in Afghanistan. By pretending he alone believes in that, Biden hopes people won’t notice what a piss poor job he did it. Apparently, he managed to hypnotize you with his BS.
  • mark94
    •
    3 years ago
    Quite a picture. 640 people evacuated on one plane: [view link]
  • mark94
    •
    3 years ago
    Here’s a scene from Charlie Wilson’s War, the true story of a strip club loving Congressman from Texas who armed the Taliban and defeated the Soviet army. And then, [view link] We’ll see
  • Icee Loco (asshole)
    •
    3 years ago
    It isn't biden fault. The US has had peace talks with the taliban for years now. Likevthe Qatar talks. I agree with 25 it looks orchestrated. Like the US is basically handing power over to the taliban and is leaving. The ex president is even getting asylum in the US. And Trump is the one who started pull out plans
  • mark94
    •
    3 years ago
    ICEE. There is something wrong with your thought process. Of course there were peace talks. This isn’t some super secret information that only you discovered. Now, explain again, slowly, how Trump having peace talks is proof that the botched withdrawal isn’t Biden’s fault.
  • Papi_Chulo
    •
    3 years ago
    "... I agree with Biden about cutting bait in Afghanistan ..." There's a withdrawal, and then there's "cutting bait" and leaving people to hang (literally); i.e. the many Afghans the U.S. recruited to help them while in-country - the U.S. could have and should have done things differently and more orderly including getting as many of the Afghans that supported the U.S. out and taking as much military-equipment out (or destroying and making it useless) - this was done very hastily and things done hastily often end-up bad especially something as big as this.
  • Papi_Chulo
    •
    3 years ago
    To the world, as a country we are looking like a version of Biden; an aging and decrepit superpower - but hey at least our government is fighting with all its might to make sure we all use the correct-pronouns b/c obviously not using the "correct" pronouns is one of the greatest threats our nation faces
  • mark94
    •
    3 years ago
    A couple weeks ago, Chairman of the Joint Chiefs Milley said he was reading up on “ white rage” as it was a real threat to the US. I wonder if he considered the Taliban a threat.
  • Icee Loco (asshole)
    •
    3 years ago
    White rage aka domestic fat right terrorism is the biggest threat to the us
  • Daddillac
    •
    3 years ago
    Maybe Milley was thinking about the rage after the fuck up in Afghan
  • Papi_Chulo
    •
    3 years ago
    I haven't really been reading/listening much news about this; but I thought it was reported that the generals were against this type of 'withdrawal" and it was "genius" Biden that overrode the generals and went at it alone
  • Papi_Chulo
    •
    3 years ago
    I guess the left pushed Biden for the quick withdrawal likely b/c the Afghans were not taking to gender-studies like the left wanted them to 😁
  • Papi_Chulo
    •
    3 years ago
    Holy shit - just saw the video of the massive military jet taking off from Kabul with people literally hanging from the wings and subsequently falling-off to their deaths as the jet climbed thru the air - I thought you guys were exaggerating when this was posted above (I thought they may have fallen-off while the jet was taking off on the runway but the vid showed people falling off w/ the plane in the freaking-air - that was rough and sad AF to watch).
  • Papi_Chulo
    •
    3 years ago
    Makes you wonder why all of a sudden the fake-news-media is going after Biden so hard w.r.t. this when up to now they've treated him with kid-gloves to say the least (actually more than that; actually lying on his behalf) - is the left trying to "Cuomo" Biden and put in power a more-woke replacement (as they likely wanna do in NY) - perhaps the left wants Kamala in there sooner than later
  • mark94
    •
    3 years ago
    “generals were against this type of 'withdrawal" It’s classic inside the beltway warfare. The generals saw the disaster unfolding and leaked to the press that it was all Biden’s fault. If they hadn’t, he would have blamed them. Instead, he blamed Trump and the Afghan army.
  • Icee Loco (asshole)
    •
    3 years ago
    The afghan army and former gov bear the most blame
  • Icee Loco (asshole)
    •
    3 years ago
    Dedertscrub you're saying biden is to blame and not the afghan army and gov that capitulated 😭😭😭
  • Uprightcitizen
    •
    3 years ago
    Ask yourselves this question kiddies. When was the last time the USA was successful at nation building (post ww2). Batting zero...
  • Icee Loco (asshole)
    •
    3 years ago
    Trump started the negotiations for a withdrawal and a power sharing plan with the US puppet government and taliban. Taliban is a us creation and former ally boo hoo
  • Icee Loco (asshole)
    •
    3 years ago
    Youre a delusional sick fuck. Most ignored forum member for a reason.
  • Icee Loco (asshole)
    •
    3 years ago
    Go become a mercenary in Afghanistan no one is stopping you mr club add of the day
  • Call.Me.Ishmael
    •
    3 years ago
    ^^^ And today's Unintentional Irony Award goes to to ... desertscrub giving anyone grief about their spelling.
  • yahtzee74
    •
    3 years ago
    >Ask yourselves this question kiddies. When was the last time the USA was successful at nation building (post ww2). Batting zero... US has been in South Korea since the 50s and they are doing very well.
  • yahtzee74
    •
    3 years ago
    Also have done a good job building up China /s
  • Uprightcitizen
    •
    3 years ago
    Korea yea. But technically there was a coup a year after the war and the democratic Republic was replaced by a dictatlorship. Eventually democracy returned peacefully but it was driven by the will of the South Korean people. I guess technically Iraq is technically a success so far.
  • CJKent_band
    •
    3 years ago
    “Put down the weapons. And we don’t mind if you’re here, but for aid and development. We don’t want any more fighting.” ~ Slogan/mantra of the peace movement in Afghanistan.
  • doctorevil
    •
    3 years ago
    What kind of drugs is desertscrub taking? I want some.
  • 48-Cowboy
    •
    3 years ago
    200
  • Call.Me.Ishmael
    •
    3 years ago
    doctorevil said "What kind of drugs is desertscrub taking? I want some." Dear God... I don't.
  • gammanu95
    •
    3 years ago
    It appears that the liberal media, as left as they are, are still more honest in the response to this abysmal Biden failure than the liberals on this site. Even the first lib comment in this thread was an attempt to distract and minimize. Thats what our idiot lefties do: deny, distract, and minimize. Lefties with a bigger podium (read national and global) call it deceive, confuse, and obfuscate. Either, it demonstrates their lack of character, principle, and intelligence. As fornthe liberal media's response, of course they are more right than Biden. Scratch that: more "correct than Biden." This is catastrophic. Sharia law, denial of basic civil rights and liberties to women and non-Taliban. Rapes, child brides, genocide, and more harboring of terrorists will resume in inmediate fashion. We could have and should have kept Kabul and Kandahar. We kept West Berlin inside of East Germany. We are keeping Guantanamo Bay inside Cuba. We have kept bases in friendly conquered nations like Japan, Germany, Italy, and the Phillippines. Kandahar was a very important staging area in a very difficult part of the world to access. Unless Biden does intend to close Rammstein AFB, Milan, and Okinawa; then this was not part of a larger foreign policy. This guy is a disaster as president, on his way to being worse than Obama, Bush, and even Jimmy Carter. The only thing worse is if he could not finish his one term, and we have to deal with a President Kommiela.
  • Tetradon
    •
    3 years ago
    "When you're wounded and left on Afghanistan's plains, And the women come out to cut up what remains, Jest roll to your rifle and blow out your brains An' go to your Gawd like a soldier. Go, go, go like a soldier, Go, go, go like a soldier, Go, go, go like a soldier, So-oldier of the Queen!" [view link]
  • mark94
    •
    3 years ago
    Anyone wondering where Kamala is ? “According to multiple reports, Harris was asked to address the American people on Sunday about the unraveling situation in the war-torn country, but refused. As the Taliban threatened the lives of thousands of Americans and allies in Kabul, pressure mounted on the White House to look the people in the eye and explain what happened. Yet, no one did. A well-placed source inside the White House informs Becker News that Kamala Harris objected to addressing the nation on Sunday. The source reports that Kamala Harris could be heard screaming, “They will not pin this shit on me!”
  • wallanon
    •
    3 years ago
    I wasn't wondering about Kamala Harris, but where did this quote come from? Found it. Becker News is actually a thing. [view link]
  • yahtzee74
    •
    3 years ago
    US State Dept echos UN in call for Taliban to form a united, inclusive, and representative government including full and meaning participation of women. [view link] sad laugh
  • Tetradon
    •
    3 years ago
    ^ Think the Taliban will celebrate Pride month? [view link]
  • Studme53
    •
    3 years ago
    Ha ha - can we just cancel the Taliban for a problematic tweet or something?
  • gammanu95
    •
    3 years ago
    Twitter and facebook are juat fine with tweets from terror groups and rogue nations, but heavens forbid someone should question the efficacy of masks or the safety of vaccines. Also, leftists can question the legitimacy of elections, but Republicans and Conservatives cannot. I'm sure there's a good reason for that ... *crickets*
  • gammanu95
    •
    3 years ago
    Can we get everyone to just take a moment and absorb the fact that the POTUS and VP had an argument overwhere the buck stops on a historic military and diplomatic disaster? Noone wants to fix it, they just argue over who would have to admit it to the nation. This is the group leading the free world.
  • mark94
    •
    3 years ago
    It’s not just POTUS and VP. The blame game is also being played by the Pentagon, State Dept, CIA, and NSA. That’s what happens when you have a weak President. It’s every bureaucrat for himself
  • mark94
    •
    3 years ago
    I heard there are 80,000 Afghans who helped us as translators and other roles. We promised every one of them we would protect them. Right now, they are being hunted down, door to door, by the Taliban.
  • 8TM
    •
    3 years ago
    Probably the right call politically speaking to rip off the band aid as quick as possible. In two weeks everyone will forget about this and we’ll be bitching and moaning about whatever the next political outrage is.
  • mark94
    •
    3 years ago
    The National Security Advisor is doing a presser. Here’s a sample: Q: Why did we leave behind Blackhawk helicopters and other equipment for the Taliban ? A: That’s an example of the tough choices made by this President. BS, there was no need to leave behind equipment. In every other evacuation, equipment was either taken with us or destroyed. It’s not a matter of either staying or sacrificing equipment. That’s a false choice to justify incompetence.
  • doctorevil
    •
    3 years ago
    Doesn’t matter that we left behind Blackhawks. They won’t be able to fly them, and even if they could, they can’t maintain them. They won’t be airworthy in a few weeks.
  • doctorevil
    •
    3 years ago
    The stuff I’m worried about is our state of the art night vision equipment that has given us an edge on our enemies, that they now have.
  • mark94
    •
    3 years ago
    Or, the Taliban will turn all this equipment over to the Chicoms for reverse engineering.
  • mark94
    •
    3 years ago
    A bit of trivia that may turn out to be important. The Senate is 50/50. The Dems retain control only because the VP, as Senate President, has the tie breaker. If Biden were to resign, or be removed under the 25th amendment, Kamala would become President. At that point, the Dems would not have the 51 votes to pass anything. They wouldn’t even be able to confirm a new VP. Complete gridlock.
  • misterorange
    •
    3 years ago
    As if the Russians didn't have enough leverage over Biden with all the Hunter/Burisma stuff, now there's yet another laptop which, by Hunter's own admission, is most likely in the hands of the Russians. It's the one he used to record videos of his sexual encounters with hookers. Ironically, there's another RECORDING of him in a drug induced stupor telling a hooker about how some Russian guy took it, and that recording was made on yet another laptop. He actually filmed himself discussing how Russians stole his sex computer, and now THAT recording has been compromised. [view link] I don't think it's a farfetched conspiracy theory to wonder if the Russians gave Biden an ultimatum to pull out of Afghanistan immediately the way he did. I would bet the Russians and their Chinese buddies are already negotiating a power-sharing arrangement with the Taliban. They probably have shit on Biden that we can't even imagine.
  • mark94
    •
    3 years ago
    The good news for Hunter is that he is blackmail proof. We know he’s a degenerate drug addict Been there. Bought the T shirt. Nothing left to reveal.
  • misterorange
    •
    3 years ago
    ^^ mark Yeah, but this must go a lot deeper than that. There must be a lot of heads that will roll if the wrong information is exposed. Too many have been covering up so much crap for so long. If it was just a matter of sacrificing Joe - forcing him to resign - they would do it.
  • san_jose_guy
    •
    3 years ago
    It does seem a lot like Vietnam and Cambodia. I am not taking sides and I do not claim to understand it. I do think Biden is wrong to be blaming the rapid collapse on the Afghans. Most people are not going to challenge people brandishing automatic weapons. SJG
  • Call.Me.Ishmael
    •
    3 years ago
    SJG said "...and I do not claim to understand it." Why not? You've been as close to Afghanistan as you've ever been to a strip club, a stripper, or even a vagina, and yet you claim to be an authority on all of those things.
  • san_jose_guy
    •
    3 years ago
    About winning a war, the US never had any objective of obliterating Vietnam, Cambodia, or Afghanistan. There never was anyone who could have surrendered. SJG
  • TheeOSU
    •
    3 years ago
    "Kamala refused a request to do a presser today,” “Said she was focused on Haiti not Afghanistan." Great! That's just what we need in a future President, a giggly airhead that can only focus on one thing at a time and can't even do that right. *sigh
  • TheeOSU
    •
    3 years ago
    " I do not claim to understand it." That's surprising. There are lots of goats in Afghanistan. Considering that I figured you'd be well versed in the goings on over there.
  • mark94
    •
    3 years ago
    A few developments - The State Dept has told Americans to make their way to Kabul Airport but has warned them that the safety of the trip to the airport is completely up to them - The State Dept has said that Americans will not be given priority on flights out - Joe Biden is still officially on vacation. He has not spoken to any world leaders since Kabul was taken.
  • mark94
    •
    3 years ago
    Consumer confidence has dropped and today’s consumer spending data showed a plunge as the working class has stopped all non essential spending. All their income is going into the rising prices of essential goods. This data is all before the collapse of Afghanistan, which isn’t going to help consumer confidence or spending.
  • san_jose_guy
    •
    3 years ago
    ^^^^^ Makes very good sense. S*** is hitting the fan. SJG
  • Tetradon
    •
    3 years ago
    This says it all Gad Saad @GadSaad · 14m Which part of their culture as relating to their treatment of women should we respect? Please be specific. Cultural relativism is a parasitic idea pathogen [view link]
  • misterorange
    •
    3 years ago
    The Afghan literacy rate is 38% meaning 62 out of 100 can't read or write. US soldiers who fought alongside them have said many cannot do basic arithmetic or even count. Who's the asshole that thought they could lead and sustain a democracy on their own? We should have left that hell hole about 18 years ago, but since we didn't and sacrificed so much blood and treasure, it doesn't make sense to pull out the way we did. We had a strategically located air base, relative peace (zero US combat deaths in the last 18 months) the Taliban back on their heels, and Al-Qaeda mostly in the history books. 2,500 troops were maintaining that. Could have negotiated a power sharing agreement from a position of strength, still maintaining overall control while Russia and China are out in the cold. Instead we've reverted to a position even worse than pre-9/11, and to the whole world we look like idiots who can't be trusted. Joe Biden and his administration are not the biggest problem here. It's the naive dumb suckers who voted for him. If next year's midterm elections aren't an overwhelming defeat of the Democrats, there's no hope for America's future.
  • CJKent_band
    •
    3 years ago
    There are geostrategic reasons why everybody has been invading Afghanistan since Alexander the Great... The country is in a highly strategic position relative to Central Asian, South Asia, and the Middle East... There are specific reasons in the last few decades, having to do with pipeline projects... Since the 1990s the United States has been trying hard to establish the Trans-Afghanistan Pipeline (TAPI) from Turkmenistan, which has a huge amount of natural gas, to India. It has to go through Kandahar... So Turkmenistan, Afghanistan, Pakistan, and India (TAPI) are all involved.... The United States wants the pipeline for two reasons. One reason is to try to prevent Russia from having control of natural gas. That's the new "great game": Who controls Central Asian resources? The other reason has to do with isolating Iran. For these reasons the Bush White House stepped up negotiations with the Taliban in 2001.... When those talks stalled in July, a Bush administration representative threatened the Taliban with military reprisals if the government did not go along with American demands.... Taliban's choice was clear: either accept a "carpet of gold" riches from the pipeline or "a carpet of bombs," meaning a military strike. This threat was passed to al-Qaida that was monitoring the U.S.-Taliban negotiations the U.S. military threat to the Taliban was made in July 2001 and caused al-Qaida's Sept. 11 attack, according to an Al Qaeda American senior operative: “The Americans had informed their allies, during a meeting, in Germany of their plan to invade Afghanistan on the autumn... So we knew what was coming, the question was do we sit back and wait or do we surprise them with a pre-emotive strike?” ~ Adam Pearlman aka Adam Gadahn aka Azzam the American ~ Born September 1, 1978 Oregon, U.S. ~ Died January 19, 2015 (aged 36) Waziristan, Pakistan ~ Cause of death Drone strike ~ Nationality American ~ Occupation Al Qaeda American senior operative, cultural interpreter, spokesman and media advisor
  • CJKent_band
    •
    3 years ago
    The undeniable reality is: There is always an economic motive underlying the American made wars/conflicts, even if the stated aim of the war is presented to the American public as something more noble...
  • mark94
    •
    3 years ago
    Biden’s approval just hit 46% in a Reuters/IPOS poll, which is the lowest it has ever been. On Friday, his approval in this poll was 53%. This latest poll was taken on Monday.
  • twentyfive
    •
    3 years ago
    Look here fellas Biden is a direct result of your former president’s performance just as the Democrats are to blame for Trumps election in 2016, the parties need to nominate the best qualified candidates and y’all can keep on screaming til the cows come home but if you keep doing as you’ve always done you’ll keep getting what you’ve always gotten. The country needs some legitimate leadership not these shitty political hacks the raise enough money to get elected Time to make all elections taxpayer funded and remove the folks with ulterior motives from the system
  • mark94
    •
    3 years ago
    Oh, so anything Biden does wrong is Trump’s fault. Got it.
  • twentyfive
    •
    3 years ago
    Fuck off mark that’s not even close to what I said. You don’t believe any criticism of Trump is ever warranted your a fool, and a tool.
  • mark94
    •
    3 years ago
    “Biden is a direct result of your former president’s performance “
  • twentyfive
    •
    3 years ago
    That is 100% correct just like if the Democrats had a viable candidate instead of Hillary Clinton, Trump would have never been elected you can’t say with a straight face that these folks were the best or the brightest available, no the last two elections have been fueled not by people voting for a candidate rather it’s been by people voting against a candidate if you put down the kool aid for a while and allowed the fog to clear you’d understand that. You are just looking to spin your own narrative but it’s far from correct
  • mark94
    •
    3 years ago
    I voted for Trump’s policies in 2016. I voted for Trump in 2020. So did 75 million others.
  • twentyfive
    •
    3 years ago
    Over 81 million voted against Trump so that’s why you lost
  • mark94
    •
    3 years ago
    Yup, that’s what the Dominion machines said. More votes than Obama or Hillary. A septuagenarian with Dementia was credited with more votes than Obama.
  • mark94
    •
    3 years ago
    A new Rasmussen Reports national telephone and online survey finds that, if the next presidential election were held today, 37% of Likely U.S. Voters would vote for Biden. Forty-three percent (43%) would vote for former President Donald Trump, and 14% say they would vote for some other candidate.
  • minnow
    •
    3 years ago
    If it hasn't been posted already: *President Biden's July proclamation that Afghanistan would not fall to the Taliban may well go down in history as equivalent of Neville Chamberlain's 1939 proclamation (after his deal with Hitler) the "we have peace in our time". * Hopefully ex-president in January 2025, with a President Trump or President DeSantis in office.
  • Icee Loco (asshole)
    •
    3 years ago
    You don't give a fuck about afghanistan. This is just another pro Trump rant. When Trump is the one who promised a withdrawal snd peace with the taliban. If biden had escalated the war you'd be batching about a senseless war. Sick fucks
  • Icee Loco (asshole)
    •
    3 years ago
    It's not just the US nato is pulling out you fucking idiot
  • Icee Loco (asshole)
    •
    3 years ago
    And we're late. Trump promised the taliban Wed be out by may
  • mark94
    •
    3 years ago
    “Trump promised the taliban Wed be out by may” Reflect, for a moment, how stupid this statement is. He wasn’t promising, he was negotiating. You do this and we’ll do that. If you don’t meet our requirements, such as not harming any Americans, we won’t withdraw.
  • mark94
    •
    3 years ago
    Taliban has surrounded the airport and is not letting anyone in. There are 10,000 to 15,000 Americans hiding in their homes in Kabul. Now what ?
  • Icee Loco (asshole)
    •
    3 years ago
    According to real news sources there's chaos by the airport due to poor crowd control
  • Icee Loco (asshole)
    •
    3 years ago
    I'm not a taliban fan. They're like afghanstans version of Christian although right Republicans. But I'm glad the occupation is over. But uts too soon to make a call on what direction it will go in.
  • ime
    •
    3 years ago
    So Biden this fucking incompetent feckless puppet has surrendered Afghanistan to the Taliban our southern border to the cartels, i guess that makes his administration a huge success as far as human trafficking and giving up US sovereignty. Good luck Tawain, you are going to ve served up to Biden's Chinese Communist masters on a silver platter.
  • mark94
    •
    3 years ago
    Every other President, when faced with a crisis like this, would be in the situation room nonstop with his security team, working the phone with world leaders, and answering questions from the press to keep the public informed. That has been the process for about 60 years. Biden has literally done none of that. The only possible explanation is that he is mentally unable to do his job.
  • mark94
    •
    3 years ago
    Very weird: Kamala Harris has not been seen publicly in six days as Afghanistan has fallen to the Taliban. The Daily Mail reports that Harris has been out of the public eye for almost a week, which includes her not being present on Tuesday when Joe Biden gave an address from the White House about the crisis in Afghanistan. Now, she’s apparently leaving this week for a trip to Singapore and Vietnam.
  • san_jose_guy
    •
    3 years ago
    Interesting observation about Harris. Thanks Mark. Remember, Afghanistan was yet another in this long series of undeclared wars. SJG Humble Pie [view link]
  • goodyman
    •
    3 years ago
    Putting this on Biden is laughable and what does Harris's whereabouts have to do with anything? Do you need some comforting works from her right now or something? In reality this is on the American people who sat by and let their government waste American money and lives over 20 years. You going to blame your Accountant or yourself for not firing them if you get audited and fined by the IRS 15 years in a row?
  • mark94
    •
    3 years ago
    “Putting this on Biden is laughable “ I thought he was Commander in Chief. I must have been misinformed.
  • misterorange
    •
    3 years ago
    Did anyone catch this latest speech from Biden about a half hour ago? It was about the possibility that we may need Covid booster shots sometime in the future. Could have been done with a Tweet or a written press release, but somehow this jackass managed to speak longer today than he did the other day during his Afghanistan speech. Then he turned and walked off stage without taking a single question.
  • san_jose_guy
    •
    3 years ago
    Our Constitution says how to declare war. This has not been followed since 12/7/41. Biden is not the one who started these problems. SJG Seven Nation Army [view link]
  • mark94
    •
    3 years ago
    For those saying this isn’t Biden’s fault, explain why we gave up Bagram air base before we evacuated Kabul. A secure air base with two runways under complete US military control. Instead, we are relying on the Kabul airport encircled, and blockaded, by the Taliban. Who made this idiotic, and deadly, decision ? If not Biden, who ?
  • san_jose_guy
    •
    3 years ago
    ^^^^ You are asking some valid questions. I think we just have to wait until this is all laid out on the table. SJG
  • san_jose_guy
    •
    3 years ago
    Why are Biden and the Democrats, including Gavin Newsom, being the idiots that Right Wing News has always made them out to be? [view link]
  • san_jose_guy
    •
    3 years ago
    I think it starts with this COVID hysteria, after that everything is built on lies. SJG
  • twentyfive
    •
    3 years ago
    All I can say is if anyone remembers the movie Charlie Wilsons War, at the end of the movie Phillip Seymour Hoffman says something like they messed up the end or in the end Biden sure did fuck this up but I don't agree with those here that think this was Biden's fuck up alone I think the biggest fuck up was Obama's for not leaving as soon as they got Osama Bin Laden, Bush fucked up the start, so we knew the whole thing was going to be a fiasco, Trump couldn't get out of his own way, not just in Afghanistan either. that was my point a few posts earlier, where I said we need to choose better, smarter leaders, not Marks stupid response of defending his Idol no matter what he say's or does.
  • mark94
    •
    3 years ago
    I wonder how the people in Kabul are sleeping: Biden telling staff he wants to go back to Delaware. Hasn't been sleeping well this week. Thinks he will be more functional if he stays over at home in Wilmington.
  • gammanu95
    •
    3 years ago
    Oh, look at the little libs trying to defend Biden by pointing the finger at Bush, Obama, or Trump for share of the blame. So pathetically predictable and wrong. Biden owns this. Biden alone let the Taliban take over Afghanistan unchallenged. Biden allowed the Islamist terrorists who sheltered and aided Osama bin Laden and other top AQ leaders to plot and launch terror attacks around the world. What in the hell makes him think it will not happen all over again? Does anyone reading seriously believe that it will not? Biden is dangerously demented. I strongly suspect that his retreat to Camp David was to receive an infusion of the new anti-dementia drug Aduhelm. It would be much easier to have that quietly administered on vacation outside of DC than at the White House. Then there's there's this interview. This sums up his presidency perfectly: [view link] How awful was that? When asked about people so desperate to escape the Taliban that they would cling to the outside of a cargo jet Mission:Impossible style, then fall to their deaths he replies "That was four or five days ago!" It's a dangerous time to be relying on the US for anything (unless you are an illegal alien at the southern border, then you have it made).
  • mark94
    •
    3 years ago
    There are reports that British paratroopers are moving throughout Kabul rescuing UK citizens while US troops have been ordered to remain at the airport. The Brits are rescuing other foreign nationals, including US, if found at locations they visit. I’m trying to find a link to a news site to confirm this.
  • mark94
    •
    3 years ago
    On Thursday, NATO officials said that 12 people have been killed in and around the airport in Kabul since Sunday, prompting the Taliban to urge people to leave the airport.
  • misterorange
    •
    3 years ago
    These Pentagon/State Department briefings are almost unwatchable. Obviously all fake propaganda, and it's not even convincing. They are terrible liars. It's hard to see how this Afghanistan fiasco doesn't blow up into a political catastrophe for the Biden administration. But on the other hand, you can never underestimate the stupidity that exists among the American public. At this point I'm hoping Biden is removed from office, whether by impeachment, 25th Amendment, forced resignation, total cognitive meltdown, whatever... and Kamala becomes President. That's when you'll see a level of incompetence that is currently unimaginable. We need to hit rock bottom before things can start getting better, and we're not quite there yet.
  • mark94
    •
    3 years ago
    I see no hope for the next 18 months. Depressing.
  • skibum609
    •
    3 years ago
    Democrats are good at bitching, complaining and leeching off others. Anyone expecting competence from them is even worse.
  • Icee Loco (asshole)
    •
    3 years ago
    Skibum isn't watching Muslims die your wet dream? It's funny watching you guys act like you care just coz you hate biden 😭😭😭
  • mark94
    •
    3 years ago
    10,000 to 15,000 Americans trapped 80,000 Afghan allies at risk of execution Women being executed for not covering faces Girls as young as 12 being torn from homes to “marry” Taliban And you say we are pretending to care. You are a sick fuck.
  • Tetradon
    •
    3 years ago
    And we haven't even gotten to the real shit storm. "China’s “Godfather” move is to recognize the Taliban while admonishing them to stay out of Xinjiang and leave the Uyghurs to their fate. China and Russia are cementing their alliance with Iran, which provided weapons to the Taliban. Iran will join the Sino-Russian umbrella group, the Shanghai Cooperation Organization. China will invest in Iran’s oil and gas, while it builds pipelines frantically to secure hydrocarbon supply from places the U.S. can’t touch." [view link]
  • mark94
    •
    3 years ago
    Found on the internet Anyone with half a brain shutdown plan - Wait until winter begins to suppress Taliban operations - Maintain Intel network and air power operations -Evac level 2 civilians ( NGOs, charities ) -Evac level 1 civilians ( US Govt ) -Evac vetted Afghan nationals -Spike/destroy heavy weapons and sensitive equipment -Evac US Military -Terminate operations at Kabul airport -Terminate operations at Bagram air base The Biden plan -Shut down Bagram air base -Shut down Intel and air operations -Evacuate US Military -Something happens
  • Papi_Chulo
    •
    3 years ago
    At least Biden is fighting the true war of forcing kindergarteners to wear masks (sarcasm)
  • gammanu95
    •
    3 years ago
    Papi's right. Biden can't even distract us properly. Maybe he'll get a bj from a chubby intern to distract us from foreign affairs.
  • san_jose_guy
    •
    3 years ago
    “The Afghanistan Papers”: Docs Show How Bush, Obama, Trump Lied About Brutality & Corruption of War [view link] Newshour, Aug 19, 2021 [view link] SJG
  • mark94
    •
    3 years ago
    ^Fuck you. Who made you king of the forums
  • wallanon
    •
    3 years ago
    "Who made you king of the forums" Are you really going to argue with an obvious troll? The thread's grown a lil redundant, but it's nice to have it all in one place instead of splintered into a dozen mini-debates.
  • mark94
    •
    3 years ago
    I’m not arguing, I’m insulting him/her. Fine with me if a non Troll wants to start a fresh approach to the subject matter. It does take a long time to load.
  • Papi_Chulo
    •
    3 years ago
    desertscrub 2024 We need a no-nonsense leader willing to call a spade a club-ad
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