Vaccines nearly useless in preventing transmission of Covid?

Note, anyone responding to this thread by attacking or attempting to besmircsh the poster is a poo pee head loser. Let's stick to the data.

I really haven't looked into-it; and I def don't trust what is coming out of our government - the little that I've heard is some doctors/scientists stating that immunity from having gotten the virus last longer and is better w.r.t. variants, than the vax

Dave, when is the last time you touched a woman's boobies? That's not an attack, just a question I wondered.

Aluminum foil is your friend Dave, try lining the inside of that MAGA cap but don't forget to loosen the head band strap. I think it's cutting the blood flow.

That site looks questionable. What other kinds of stuff do they report?

Gee, Dave. That's fascinating. How, exactly, would you rationalize the wretched vaccination rates of Texas, Alabama and Florida and their equally egregious rates of infection, hospitalization and death? Or why vaccination rates have started to rise in those states?

That tinfoil headgear might well explain your difficulty in correlating that data.

I looked at that site to see where Dave is coming from on this. On the site, the guy who created it said, "... as someone who’s earned his living as a journalist for over 35 years, occasionally with a front row seat on the inner workings of government, I’m a subscriber to the cock-up theory of history." I guess that explains why it's being cited here on a forum dedicated to strip clubs.

"How, exactly, would you rationalize the wretched vaccination rates of Texas, Alabama and Florida and their equally egregious rates of infection, hospitalization and death? Or why vaccination rates have started to rise in those states?"

It's mostly seasonal. Numbers of cases rose last summer in those states too. When the weather gets really hot, people move indoors. The disease is more easily spread when people crowd together indoors. You saw the same thing in the winter last year in the northern states. When it got really cold, they moved inside and cases went up.

"occasionally with a front row seat on the inner workings of government"

This sounded interesting. The guy who started the blog is named Toby Young. For about a week he was a "non-executive member of the board for the new Office for Students" in Britain. He was appointed by Jo Johnson, the universities minister who is also Boris Johnson's brother. Lots of articles in the whole fiasco leading up to his resignation, but yes the blog guy is IRL connected to high level Brits.

I read something like 75% of new infections are vaccinated people. When vaccinated people get covid, they’re out for a day and a half. The cases in the ER are 99% unvaccinated people.

There is so much bad information on this thread, it's amazing. Virtually all of the new cases are unvaccinated people. Virtually all of the new deaths are unvaccinated people. Is the vaccine completely effected in preventing transmission ? No, but no vaccine is. The fact is, you are significantly safer if you have taken the vaccine. And we will get rid of this thing the quicker the stupid people will stop fighting it and get your damn shots.

I'll stop Preaching now !

Idk, ever since taking the vaccine I’ve developed some nice scales and now have the ability to slither up some really tall skyscrapers. Feeling pretty strong here 🐍😎

mr anderman i thought u did not believe in viruses becaus u felt the data pointed toward diseases being caused by evil spirits or alien anal probes

regardless mr anderman i believe u have stated that u live in californium or some other place u consider benighted so i want to tell u that u should consider becoming an “honorary real floriduh man”(tm)

just go to a burger king and wash ur balls in the soda machine. let things unfold from there

Op needs to stick to fucking pillows.


But the vaccine is pretty much useless as are masks. It's all to give us a false sense of security so we support reopening coz the private sector wants more profits. Rich peoples money before everyone else's lives

This data is only relevant to a complete fucking idiot that would be linked to high cases of retarded forum postings. Potentially in topics based on zero facts backed by data but more of a rhetoric they obsess over while stroking their tiny soft dick, at age 59, convinced of how smart they are.

The data!

In Maryland, vaccinated people make up 3.7% of deaths and 3.8% of hospital cases.

>When vaccinated people get covid, they’re out for a day and a half. The cases in the ER are 99% unvaccinated people.

Only they still want to lock down just because of case numbers.

If Covid is such a smart virus why are any progressives left alive?

> Virtually all of the new cases are unvaccinated people.

75% of cases in MA county outbreak were vaccinated.

https://www.aha.org/news/headline/2021-0…

The reason why dems are so pro vaccine is that they want to get their tracking device in you. If you go to a gun and knife show, they'll know and will send the gun grabbing task force, led by bozo o Rourke, Corey Booker, and mayor Pete to your house to confiscate them.

Ok, it's kinda' silly to imply that vaccines aren't useful. Yes vaccinated people don't seem to be especially protected from catching the Delta variant, but they HAVE been protected from the worst of the symptoms.

But what's especially interesting is how low the reinfection rates have been in those who developed immunity through actual infection rather than vaccinations. This of course is not getting much air time, but studies are increasingly concluding that the immunity developed from actual infection is much more effective against a wider array of variants than the vaccines.

^^^^^^^^ So says the person who blithely got infected, and posted here about his episode. That may very well be so (no link to source of info given by you). I know 3 people who got Covid ( 1 who was hospitalized for 2 wks) that unhesitatingly got the vaccine anyway. W15 post plus 1, people !

===> "^ So says the person who blithely got infected, and posted here about his episode."

Indeed. Also the person who has been the poster boy for high risk activity since clearing the infection over a year ago, yet I have not been re-infected. That alone would convince me, even if various studies did not now exist which support the conclusion that prior infection confers strong protection against future re-infection.

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/…
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/…
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lance…

^ Or it just proves the old adage that god looks out for fools and drunks

But truthfully buddy since you’ve never met anyone and much of your posting goes contrary to common knowledge there’s a high probability that your veracity is similar to Icees.

Dave_Anderson said "Let's stick to the data."

And the winner of today's "Unconscious Irony Award' goes to...

Covid delta is not the original covid. It is a different disease. It was made possible because of non-vaccinated people in India. We are lucky that the vaccine provides any immunity against delta, even if it doesn't prevent spread. It's like saying last years flu is this years. It isn't.

By the way there is also a covid lambda (we have not run out of greek letters yet) and the vaccine might not prevent disease severity or spreading. So we should not blame the vaccine we should blame the self declared clever people that aren't vaccinated (and have the option to be vaccinated).

If we wait too long before we get the world vaccinated, then for sure there will be strains that are resistant to the vaccine.

The RNA vaccines produce 10x (and up to 100x) the level of antibody compared to getting the disease. The decay rate of the antibodies is not yet known. So immunity might decrease over time. The super high levels of antibody in the vaccinated probably explain why the non-vax, even those that have gotten the original covid, are still at much higher risk for delta. (Even weak antibodies work if you have enough -- its chemistry in action).

England, Germany, France and Israel are at >80% vaccinated and are now giving boosters. My 97 year old dad just got his booster. Many of the first people in Europe got Astra Zeneca (AZ is in England) and that did not cover the South African strain very well, so they probably needed boosters with a better vaccine.

The CDC site says they will be giving guidance on boosters for immuno-supressed people in September and maybe for everyone in October. They are holding off now for more data, and in a strange hope that the current supplies will suddenly be used by the non-vaccinated.

Myself -- I travel alot -- so I've been following my antibody level. I'll get a booster if it drops.

Hospitals have to close down because the ICU's and all the step downs are full of very sick covid. They are sending quite sick patients home to try and survive without O2.

Do you really want to get your prostate biopsy and come home in a box from Covid.

Hospital workers have had the highest exposure doses (viral parti and therefore very high death rates.

Rickdugan by the way is wrong about the natural infection people. The natural infections count as non-vaccinated, check the actual papers on www.pubmed.gov. They are highly at risk. That is the reason he can't find that data he was looking for.

gotoguy, I posted links to three studies. Catch up to the rest of the class.

Deaths are the lowest they’ve been since March 2020. Yes, there has been a slight uptick in cases but the vaccines are protecting people from death. So, they are doing their job.

As to why there is an uptick in cases, I’m inclined to look at the Southern Border for an answer. A million unvaccinated, often infected, illegal immigrants have been allowed in the country and housed in crowded warehouses before being transported around the country. If you designed a system for increasing cases, this would be it.

^ Sure thing Mark Mexicans, Guatemalans, and Salvadorians, all swimming across the Gulf of Mexico to make sure that Floriduh is the epicenter of the latest crises SMH

I’m to the point where IDGAF about other people’s position on the vaccine. Don’t want to take it? Fine. It’s your life. The vaccines will have full FDA approval in the next 60 days or so. They are not experimental. They’ve given 300 million shots already. It’s a bit disturbing to see the false narratives and conspiracy theories but I’m protected and so are those close to me from the worst of it. Yeah, it sucks that we may have to wear masks again but we’ll get through it without closing down the economy and schools, even in my blue state with our republican governor. Now if we get a variant that is more lethal and vaccine resistant I’ll be pissed, but for now? Catching the virus and suffering severe consequences is close to being absolutely voluntary. If you want to roll the dice, it’s on you. I’ll go about my business and roll with whatever.

“Sure thing Mark Mexicans, Guatemalans, and Salvadorians, all swimming across the Gulf of Mexico to make sure that Floriduh is the epicenter of the latest crises SMH”

You forgot to mention Haitians. Have you noticed a few more of them in Florida since their President was assassinated?

No I haven’t but even so this bullshit has become a staple of the right wing extremists seal the borders scapegoat immigrants fuck y’all with you’re fake bogeymen.

"Have you noticed a few more of them in Florida since their President was assassinated?"

Let's just say for the sake of argument there are more Haitians trying to get to the US. Their president just got murdered in his own home under some pretty nutty circumstances. We're talking Suicide Squaddy plotlines being thrown around. If I lived there and had the means to leave, then I might be trying to get the fuck outta dodge myself.

Just to add to my last point, in the Israeli study I linked to, the power of natural immunity was found to offer 6.7 times more protection than immunity obtained through vaccination. As described in the study, that's because with natural immunity the body develops antibodies to the entire surface of the virus, not just a spike protein constructed from a vaccine.

It's so weird everyone getting hospitalized and dying from covid is unvaccinated.

Conspiracy? Probably.

On a more serious note once the vaccine is approved for kids a big part of me just wants natural selection to go ahead and run its course.

From a moral perspective it would be better if we all got vaccinated and just beat this thing. But there's a darker part of me that is ok with Desantis running a death cult for the people who still listen to him.

^ Right because if kids don't get vaccinated then who knows how many will die. After all, this thing has proven to be very dangerous to kids...oh...errr...wait...

But please do keep going. After all we can never have enough drama queens, no? 😉

Question for dugan: Why do you care so much?

You post thread after thread in the “we overreacted to covid” genre and freak out when people disagree. But you live in a state where covid restrictions are essentially non-existent. My friends in Florida have told me that they see some places with “we request that you wear a mask” signs up but even those places aren’t forcing anybody.

Add to that the fact that your man-crush governor isn’t going to be up for reelection until next year and my friends say he’s probably going to win. I haven’t dug that deeply because I don’t care, but the point is that your utopian state is very likely to have the policies you want for some time. So what’s your issue?

You are clearly sinking time into this. You’re obviously doing “research” and, to be fair, you linked to an actual respected medical journal (the Lancet) and two medrxiv papers. The latter are not yet peer-reviewed but they do come from genuine medical researchers.

Color me skeptical that you understand said articles completely. For example, the article you cite as supporting the contention that “natural immunity” is 6.7x more protective than vaccination is entitled “Protection of previous SARS-CoV-2 infection is similar to that of BNT162b2 vaccine protection: A three-month nationwide experience from Israel” and it doesn’t mention the 6.7x figure in the abstract...y’know, where you might expect something so striking to be reported.

Instead they report values of 96.8% protection from severe illness [CI 92.5-98.3%] by prior infection vs 94.4% protection from severe illness [CI 93·6, 95·0%] by vaccination. In other words, essentially the same values... Vaccination vs prior infection values were similar for the other outcomes assessed.

Maybe the 6.7x figure is buried somewhere in the full paper, which I didn’t read. Although your links interested me more than Anderson’s because they were to reputable sources, I don’t have the energy or interest to wade through the details. But, again, I am highly skeptical that you actually understand the minutia and I am fairly certain that the authors wouldn’t bury greater efficiency in the paper rather than highlighting it in the abstract.

I will point out one benefit of that you may not quite understand...you don’t have to get the disease to get the immunity. I would think that is pretty obvious but given your posts I’m not sure you actually understand what the vaccine does. You just seem to be sure of one thing: ricky no like vaccine!

But here’s the thing: nobody is forcing you to get vaccinated. Sure, people complain that you’re an idiot for not getting vaccinated but somehow I think you’ve been called an idiot at previous times in your life. I’d think you’d be used to it and let it roll off your back at this point!

Dugan, you write well. You’re not fucking Hemingway, but you spell correctly and use proper grammar much of the time. Basic literacy skills put you ahead of a lot of internet posters. Why don’t you return to posting stories about your adventures in clubbing and OTC and lay off the covid?

Sure, you come across as a major douche in your “I’m letting my pervert flag fly” posts but you’re an entertaining douche in those posts. You’re just a douche in your covid rands.

As always, you’re welcome!

For the uninitiated (and unable to use google) the BNT162b2 vaccine is the Pfizer vaccine

Phil, I care for the same reason that anyone cares - because I live in a world that is impacted by how others react. My life isn't limited to Florida as I must travel for work and deal with people all over the country on almost a daily basis. Places like NYC and CA are getting a bit crazy and it will eventually impact me if grown adults cannot get a hold of themselves and start looking at this thing more rationally.

As far as the rest of your goofy characterizations (man crush on De Santis, "freak out" when people disagree, ricky doesn't like vaccines, etc.), nice melodramatic spin. Though while combined with your failed attempt at psychoanalysis and critique of my writing skills it was all rather interesting, a dude who routinely posts in a fake retard idiom for some reason only known to him should perhaps be a bit more self-reflective before criticizing the personality traits of others. 😉

As far as the data, if you are having trouble understanding it, you can always Google summaries of the studies I linked, which should simplify it for you.

“Why don’t you return to posting stories about your adventures in clubbing and OTC and lay off the covid?”

Says Dr Phil, who has never reviewed a club but goes on for 10 paragraphs with CoVid snippets he found on the internet.

Here’s a little news on the big, scary Delta variant from countries that got it before us.

. In the U.K., daily confirmed cases of COVID-19 have fallen by 50% in the past week after the country experienced its largest wave of infections in months. In India, where the Delta variant first emerged, confirmed COVID-19 infections have dropped by a factor of ten in the last few months—after peaking at nearly 400,000 daily infections in May.

A NYT columnist said on CNN that she’s not concerned about spreading CoVid because the people at Obama’s party were “sophisticated”. On the same day, Fauci said he was worried about the Sturgis rally. Apparently, only unsophisticated people spread the virus.

Dugan, I can see that I my modest complements have gone to your head. I’ll make three points:

First, my “retard idiom” often gets funny reactions. Given that my goal is to have a laugh it serves it serves its purpose. In contrast, constantly posting covid bullshit on a site where all vocal posters - with the exception of twentyfive - agrees with you seems kind of pointless. Of course, you probably think it does serve your stated goal because you’re kind of a dumbass...

Second, you probably didn’t understand this but my contention is that you - MR. RICKYBOI DUGAN - are a DUMBASS WHO DIDN’T UNDERSTAND WHAT HE READ. I’d advise you to google more but you probably still won’t understand what you read.

I will give you credit for the fact that at least identified reliable sources - albeit two that weren’t yet peer-reviewed. I’ll cut you slack since you probably don’t understand what that is. Overall, that puts you up on Mr. Mark and Mr. Anderson. But if you want to shoot for “geneious” I would recommend aiming a bit higher.

Third, you may just have to live with the fact that other cities and states may do things differently that you would. I suspect you haven’t actually traveled abroad so I’ll tell ya something: other countries also do things differently. Just be glad your man-crush governor is doing what you want and accept that you ain’t gonna change what NYC and CA are doing by posting your opinions on a web site for perverts.

C’mon man. You’re obviously a demented pervert. Lean into that and tell some good stories! I suspect 90% of your stories are bullshit, but most of the words are spelled correctly, your grammar is passible, and you have a good sense of narrative flow. Go with your strength and don’t waste your limited brainpower trying to understand things beyond your ken!

By the way, I noticed that you’re offended by “boi” so I chose to use that term for you.

My armchair psychoanalysis is that you panic when you think about your latent homosexual desires and the term “boi” reminds you of those desires.

You and markyboi should powwow and see if you can solve your internal conflict. Not sayin how ya might do that, just trying to help! As always, you’re welcome! 😉

^ Ok troll boy, when I started engaging with you, I hadn't bothered to look at your profile. After mark pointed out your lack of reviews, your sole purpose here is pretty clear. I'm glad you amuse yourself with your hamfisted attempts at humor, but I don't come here to feed the likes of you. Until you post something besides humorless baits and insults, you have 0 credibility here. Perhaps you should think about contributing to the site from which you derive such odd satisfaction - just a thought. 😉

A little background for Dr Phil and others. Graham’s hierarchy of disagreement describes the effectiveness, and quality, of arguments in a debate. The very lowest level of response is name calling. The next level up is ad hominem attacks ( questioning the source of facts ). Dr Phil ( and others on the left ) respond almost entirely in one of these two ways. In their world, this passes for wit. Among those who’ve been trained in the art of debate, it reveals their lack of mental discipline.


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Gra…

The vaccine is doing exactly what it was intended to, to create fear and hysteria.

They do this with the vaccine and the masking, just like they had been with the testing and the masking.

At least they are not telling people who have no symptoms to get tested anymore.

We all need to fight back in anyway that we can.

SJG

There's some legitimate concern about long term health consequences for kids who get covid. It's pretty much guaranteed people who go to the hospital but survive will end up with shorter lives. There's plenty of reasons to want to prevent infections.

I don't personally favor more lockdowns by the way, they unfairly punish us vaxxed folks. I'm fine with masks overall because I'm tough enough they don't bother me.

^ "I'm tough enough to want to mask up to protect myself...errr...I mean others of course."

Thanks for that tough guy. 😉

Enough already with the kids stuff though. It's pretty clear that kids are overwhelmingly unaffected by this thing. Finding a few one-offs and then pounding them doesn't make you more right, just more of a drama queen.

Pro Vax and pro super spreading. Keep businesses open and just let nature take its course with those who want to test their genetic superiority/inferiority.

my experience so far…
covid first hits. i go on living life.
i get covid. june 2020.
rest up. then live life again.
get the jabs of moderna.
live life more.
still living!…

From Rep Jim Jordan

#COVID19 spreads at:

-Church
-School
-Trump rallies
-Motorcycle rallies

It doesn’t spread at:

-“Peaceful” protests
-The southern border
-Democrat wedding receptions
-San Francisco hair salons
-Governor Newsom’s dinner
-President Obama’s birthday party’

That you consider Jim Jordan a source of anything quotable doesn't surprise me.

School districts in Austin mandating masks -- direct middle-finger to gov Abbott. What great news.


https://www.statesman.com/story/news/202…

Okay, now find one scientific study that shows masks do any good, other than N95 surgical masks. Masks are worthless at stopping CoVid. They are simply virtue signaling.

They should immediately start working on a vaccine for ignorance because it’s killing Americans left and right.

Random: Refer to my earlier comment on the hierarchy of arguments. Ad Hominem attacks and name calling, the weakest response in any discussion. Now, refute the fact that there are 2 standards for what mask protocols need to be followed. One standard for the “sophisticated” and one for the deplorables.

25: you might want to look at the hierarchy of argument

My contention: Masks don’t work. Show me evidence to the contrary

Your response: You’re ignorant.

Me: 2+2=4

25: You’re ignorant
Random: You’re a Republican, so that must be wrong

"My contention: Masks don’t work. Show me evidence to the contrary"

https://science.sciencemag.org/content/3…

Mark you might want to look at the hierarchy of argument yourself I didn’t call anyone any names I made a statement to what I believe in,
Virtue signaling my ass,, if you’re wrong you’ve harmed and killed lot of people, if I’m wrong I’ve merely made them somewhat uncomfortable but they aren’t harmed
Bunch of weak idiots looking for medical advice from politicians.

They help. It has everything to do with viral load/exposure. Ex. An unmasked covid + coughs in aisle seven at Walmart - big viral load. If he was wearing a surgical mask - less load. N95 - even less load. Now you come walking through aisle seven. Some particles get on your skin and clothes. No mask - you breathe in a enough to likely become infected. Surgical mask - less viral load maybe you don't get enough to to trigger infection, maybe you do. N95 - you breathe in even fewer particles, probably don't become ill. This is all assuming both parties wear their masks appropriately. Aisle seven is a big air volume with commercial air handler air turn over, masks may help. If you are front line worker in the Covid ward at a regional medical center, N95s aren't going to be enough to prevent threshold viral loads. That is why they are suited up. This is really not that complicated and is well documented. Saying masks don't work because they mitigate rather than prevent is like saying "I don't use condoms because TOTALLY prevent pregnancy and disease."

*because they don't TOTALLY

I can't seem to find the edit button.

“Mark ……. I didn’t call anyone any names……….Bunch of weak idiots

Me: cite one scientific study that says masks work

Justin: I totally believe that masks work

It's been about 17 months since covid was declared a pandemic. If someone still doesn't understand the rationale and science behind wearing masks, it's time to give up.

https://www.democracynow.org/2021/8/10/s…

They are ganging up on Texas Gov Greg Abbott. I am not generally a supporter of him or of Red State thinking. But when it comes to the schools, Texas Authorities said no mandatory masking, testing, temperature taking, or social distancing.

All they are saying is that if someone is sick or has recently tested positive, they should stay home. And this has always been the policies in schools. If someone is sick, they are very vulnerable to getting something else, so better to stay home. The cure for COVID is sleep.

They are saying that in Houston there are lots of children in the Intensive Care Unit. All this really means is that they want to watch them while they are likely on immunosuppressants. Its just like when Donald Trump had it. Immunosupressants mean that there won't be much in the way of symptoms. But they need to watch for any signs of an allegoric reaction. And then I don't think they want these kinds of drugs getting into the hands of the general population. They could be used to make narcotics, probably. So they want them to be administered by medical professionals in the ICU.

What really bothers me about the hysteria is the total dishonesty in it. The original idea, as I thought was understood, was to slow COVID down so that we did not overflow the hospitals. And as I saw it at the time, this was clearly accomplished by the end of April 2020. And the plan seemed to have been to reopen at the start of May.

But then the focus changed, and they were talking about case numbers being up or down, and we had Gavin flying over our beaches in the helicopter and scolding us, and getting all exercised because the positive test results had gone from 5.1% to 5.6%. Well what this means is that for every case that tests positive, there are another 18 people standing in line to get tested, who are not showing symptoms and could not be seeking treatment. Why on earth are those people standing in line?

It was all total hysteria.

Yesterday I was at City Hall. New signs say, that masks are required to enter. And then at the bottom they say, "Thank You For Keeping Our Community Safe". Well this is crazy, the precautions cannot be expected to reduce the number of persons exposed to the virus. They only things they keep safe are the jobs of the public health officials who are behind this.

Covid Hysteria
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ttnv5APV…

SJG

Black Holes
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0FH9cgRh…

Peter Frampton
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yVCWaWFm…

Mark are you Autistic, I ask this with the kindest of intentions because I never addressed you and you seem to be having difficulty understanding reasonable behavior if you aren’t autistic and are just spoiling for an argument go fuck yourself with a rusty augur you’re beyond help.

Here’s my summary of the results from the Science article “ in theory, masks probably help.” There is no empirical data that they actually work.

I’m glad 25 doesn’t resort to name calling. Always taking the high ground.

Like I said go fuck your self dumbass motherfucker.

The article includes approximately 60 references from which they drew their conclusions. Masks work to varying degrees. Your statement was "masks don't work." I provided evidence to the contrary. Now it is your turn. Show us studies to support your hypothesis.

^ your trying to have a reasonable conversation with an ideologue he’s seriously nuts you’re wasting your time

Justin: here is one key paragraph from the article/abstract. This is a long, long way from proving masks work. Note that “ clinical trials have shown inconsistent or inconclusive results”

“The effectiveness of masks, however, is still under debate. Compared with N95 or FFP2 respirators, which have very low particle penetration rates (~5%), surgical and similar masks exhibit higher and more variable penetration rates (~30 to 70%) (2, 3). Given the large number of particles emitted upon respiration and especially upon sneezing or coughing (4), the number of respiratory particles that may penetrate masks is substantial, which is one of the main reasons for doubts about their efficacy in preventing infections. Moreover, randomized clinical trials have shown inconsistent or inconclusive results, with some studies reporting only a marginal benefit or no effect of mask use (5, 6).”

“he’s seriously nuts”

So, name calling really is the only arrow in your quiver.

No but if the name fits wear it proudly

Some people go to college and take courses in logic, rhetoric, philosophy, and speech. They learn how to craft a well reasoned argument.

25 seems to have spent all his time in comedy clubs listening to second rate insult comics.

I did, still doesn't invalidate any of my criticisms of you and your ilk, Don Rickles would have called you a hockey puck, and god only help you, if you sat in the front row of one of his shows, and my favorite comedian of all time George Carlin would have amended his seven dirty words screed to include you, and made it seven dirty words and one idiot.
And I suspect Johnny Carson would have had you stand in for him as Carnac always an idiot LOL

^^^^^^ twentyfive !!

SJG

Mark, maybe you should think about your own logical fallacies. “ 25 seems to have spent all his time in comedy clubs listening to second rate insult comics.” Why aren’t you deconstructing his arguments dispassionately and responding based on their substance?

There have been exactly two posts in this thread that have referenced SCIENTIFIC LITERATURE. One was dugan’s and the other was Justin’s.

I responded to dugan’s by pointing out that the TITLE of the article that he advanced as evidence that prior infection is substantially more protective than vaccines. Both the TITLE and the ABSTRACT implied that prior infection = vaccination. So dugan is wrong about the details. But I’ll be fair and say that if that preprint passes peer review it definitely suggests that previously infected individuals don’t need to be vaccinated. What else do YOU take from that paper?

Justin posted a paper which you promptly dismissed. Then you went back and looked for info to back up your contention that the Justin’s link to a SCIENTIFIC PUBLICATION was just guesswork. To be fair, you actually quoted the paper. Your analysis of the paper would have been more convincing, however, if you had actually quoted material from the end of the paper, not the beginning. In other words, you quoted the authors’ INTRODUCTORY material (i.e., right now we don’t know if masks work) rather then their CONCLUSIONS.

Look Mark, I don’t think anybody on here is going to change anybody’s mind about anything more substantive than the best kind of pants for a lap dance. My intention was to bust your balls a bit and have a laugh. I’m perfectly happy for you to throw shit back at me. And the truth is that If you can’t take a joke that’s fine. You could politely PM me and ask me to lay off.

But I’m just you look kind of foolish when you hold yourself up as the expert debater trained in rhetoric, logic, and philosophy and then you don’t actually engage with the source relevant material

“Why aren’t you deconstructing his arguments dispassionately and responding based on their substance?”

Okay, give me a minute to analyze this substance from 25

“Like I said go fuck your self dumbass motherfucker.”

^ I concur you really are a dumb ass motherfucker and a hockey puck LOL

@Dr Phil with regards to mark94 I’ve tried to have a legitimate conversation with him but he focuses on irrelevant shit because he’s really stupid not because of any real intelligence
I’ve said this before it’s really difficult to change the mind of a smart person with a stupid person it’s impossible

“I’ve tried to have a legitimate conversation with him”

I’m unclear. Was that the time you called me a dumbass ? Motherfucker ? Stupid ? Nuts ? Ideologue ? Autistic ? Beyond help ? Weak idiot ? Right wing extremist ? Ignorant ?

Which of those comments was you trying to have a legitimate conversation ?

^ Well you called Don Rickles, George Carlin, and Johnny Carson second rate, beats the fuck out of me that you are so obtuse, I mean hell, I'm not a fan of Tom Brady, but I'd never consider him second rate, so fuck yeah your analytical process is seriously flawed, and I'm completely justified in calling you a moron, and those other words certainly fit you well.

It's obvious that the data indicates the vaccines do not work.
The CDC and Sleepy Joe and the Ho are all lying.
Pushing the vaccine on everyone just to line the pockets of the fat cats at Pfizer, Moderna, etc.

dave_anderson is a certified troll. He doesn't even respond in his own threads.

He may be too busy gargling fish piss in a cock sushi buffet, but who knows.

Mark, the point is that you have an opportunity. You say you want a debate. But then when somebody answers with an actual link to a part of the scientific literature you dismiss it. I describe - in a civil response - why I think you’re wrong. Specifically, I said that you copy-pasted a paragraph from the introduction of the paper in question rather than the conclusion

But instead you switch back to complaining about how twentyfive is insulting you. Personally, I don’t see the appeal of a real debate in this forum, but if you want to have one it is within your power to make that happen.

The truth is that you are guilty of a fallacious debate tactic; the “Gish gallop”: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gish_gallo…

That’s when you move from topic to topic so fast you’re opponents in the debate can’t engage with specific points. Dugan provides links to three scientific publications, stating that one indicates that post-infection immunity to covid is actually better than vaccination. I respond by stating that his his interpretation of the publication is inconsistent with the title of the publication and with the abstract summarizing the work.

Now to be fair, it is clear the Mr. Dugan doesn’t want to debate. Ever notice how even the people who agree with Dugan on specific issues think he’s a douche? Hell, I’ve been shitposting for giggles and people have PM’ed me with comments about what a douche he is. Given that I’ve been being an asshole that should tell you something. Trust me, dugan does not have the high ground.

The point is that YOU claim you want to have a debate. So start a thread about the topic, avoid the Gish gallop, politely ask participants to be serious, ignore off-topic insults, and have that debate.

I already responded. The Science article doesn’t say what you claimed. It correctly states that there is no empirical data or studies that show masks work. Pretty amazing after 18 months of forcing us to use them. The article then goes on to speculate that masks might do some good in certain situations. That’s as far as the article goes. No proof they work. Just speculation based on what they think should happen given the size of particles, etc. For that, the government is demanding our children wear masks and miss out on a second year of normal education.

I cited a peer reviewed journal. The title of the article is "Face masks effectively limit the probability of SARS-CoV-2 transmission".

Definition: "Empirical evidence is information acquired by observation or experimentation. Scientists record and analyze this data. The process is a central part of the scientific method." This would be the observation aspect because you are not going to experiment on humans with a potentially lethal pathogen. Approximately 60 relevant studies were cited.

Their conclusion, stated in the abstract, in the second paragraph of text was "We find that most environments and contacts are under conditions of low virus abundance (virus-limited), where surgical masks are effective at preventing virus spread."

I have fulfilled your request to "Show me evidence to the contrary". I am not inclined to try and dissuade you from your path of willful ignorance.

I never rely on the research of others and use plain common sense. Plain common sense tells me masks have a positive impact on the ability to transmit disease. I hate them and seldom wear them, but the fact is they work - end of fucking story.

What I got out of this thread is the overwhelming certainty that Dr. Phil(dot) is definitely Randumbmember.

^ 🤔 idk, the Phil(dot) account seems to have a bigger sense of humor and I’ve PM’ed with before. Whereas Random is just one step below Ricky D for trollability and getting bent out of shape over weird stuff like fucking in vehicles.

Here’s my summary of where we stand. Nobody knows nothing when it comes to CoVid.

The government keeps telling us what to do but does a piss poor job of explaining why we should. Don’t mask. Mask. Triple mask. Vaccines are the answer. Although, you can still get and spread the disease after vaccination. But, you should still get the shot. And, vaccinated people really need masks. Here comes Delta. Now, it’s Lamda. Maybe we should lock down again.

The “experts” have surrendered whatever credibility they once had. It’s a shit show.

^^^^^ Our public officials have been completely dishonest about what we are trying to do, and what is happening. March 2020, it was just slowing the virus down. But when they decided to extend it into May, it was more like they were trying to protect people, isolate them, keep them safe, and this is totally unrealistic.

Now, it is like they think they can eradicate it, and this is completely unrealistic.

When are they going to eradicate the flu, or chicken pox?

And then people die everyday. Its called finite life expectancy. COVID is not increasing our mortality or shortening our life expectancy. Universal Health Care would add 5 years to our life expectancies. But the COVID precautions accomplish nothing except the promotion of irrational superstitious fear.

SJG

Sorry that new information is hard to process, mark.

The damn CDC didn't know about Delta before it existed! (Even though they warned about variants being possible)

I believe that this will be just like the flu, a new mutation, and a new vaccine every year.

What we of the general public need to do right now is forget about the virus, tell the public health officials to fuck off, and dump the precations.

SJG

THIS TOTALLY SUCKS, TRYING TO ENFORCE VACCINATION

IDIOCY!

TOTALLY UNWARRANTED!

https://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/coron…

has PDF link for actual 10 page text
https://www.latimes.com/california/story…

SJG

https://www.spicylingerie.com/bc-vip1002…

The main determinant of our health and life expectancy is how we manage chronic conditions. COVID is a very small factor, and we are not going to eradicate it. Universal Health Care would make for a much larger improvement than all the COVID precautions and the vaccine do together. This is the reason the Democratic Party leadership promotes COVID hysteria, because they know that talk about Universal Health Care would cost them electorally.

There are going to be lawsuits, there are going to be protests, and there is going to be defiance.

Already lawsuits against Los Angeles:

https://www.dailynews.com/2021/10/04/fiv…

https://www.lamag.com/citythinkblog/lafd…

https://www.latimes.com/california/story…

https://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2021/09/…

Serious things unfolding very quickly
https://alexberenson.substack.com/

SJG

IBIZA SUMMER MIX 2021 ↠ Ibiza, Maldives, Thailand, Bali, Paradise
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6OS54BXp…

Lacey, understands highest of heels
https://tuscl.net/photo.php?id=4626

https://www.spicylingerie.com/bc-vip1002…

https://www.spicylingerie.com/ey-w6712x.…

https://pleasershoes.com/products/beyond…

OMS Martinism
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j46T-7ha…

Los Angeles City Council Insanity:

https://abc7.com/la-vaccine-mandate-los-…

https://ktla.com/news/local-news/sheriff…

https://apnews.com/article/coronavirus-p…

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/3235…

https://www.dailynews.com/2021/10/07/hea…

https://www.latimes.com/california/story…

https://www.latimes.com/california/story…

https://www.latimes.com/california/story…

SJG

tits out, high heels, bound
https://tuscl.net/photo.php?id=8936

Tucker Carlson Tonight 10-8-21 Alex Berenson, push to vaccinate children, No Way!

SJG

backdoor latex
https://tuscl.net/photo.php?id=9004

Debate, someone from Ayn Rand Institute
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVx57ils…

SFC Economics Society: "Reflections on the Current Disorder" by Doug Henwood
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6_FBc9sm…

Has COVID pushed Bay Area stressors to the breaking point?
https://www.mercurynews.com/2021/10/10/h…

SJG

latex
https://tuscl.net/photo.php?id=9004

https://tuscl.net/photo.php?id=9007

Lap Dance Parties in Los Angeles
https://tuscl.net/discussion.php?id=7710…

Alex Berenson

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SJBiLRa0…

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dj2XQoOX…

Vaccine Increasing Death Rate, Germany Now!

https://alexberenson.substack.com/

SJG

More likely to become sick if you are vaccinated. UK data.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=64SjoIvr…

https://alexberenson.substack.com/p/its-…

SJG

BBW action uniform, plus light bondage
https://www.spicylingerie.com/ms-l218x.h…