PSA: Possible Shark Sighting
Cristobal
I give in to sin because you have to make this life livable
Recently at HK I met a possible Shark/ROB and feel it is my duty to warn TJ Mongers:
Her name is Frances, speaks little English, pretty in a girl next door way, young (maybe 22), nice smile, about 5'2, 125-35 pounds, man made C cups, proportional, nice ass, decent waist and hips, no noticable tatoos, long, straight light, brown hair, light skin, she is a solid 7 in looks and 8 in body.
She wore a one piece with wedges rather than stripper heels and did not dance on the stage nor the bars.
She was working the afternoon shift (maybe 4pm to 12am) on a busy Sunday.
She received a few ficha invitations but did not go arriba, also PLs approached her but walked away.
I approached her and offered a ficha, with no tables available (and she did not want to walk up to the second floor) we sat at the stage, she would alternate between sitting on my lap and standing, making small talk, after about two minutes she asks to go arriba, with a big grin I tell her "I'm thinking about it" which usually pleases the BG and leads to arriba but she takes one last sip of her drink and walks away saying she is available for $100.
Thanks, but no thanks.
OK, YMMV, but leaving after drinking half a drink and a super quick press seems to me to be potential Shark/ROB behavior:
Approach At Your Own Risk.
There are too many BGs to waste your time and money on a potential shark/ROB.
Her name is Frances, speaks little English, pretty in a girl next door way, young (maybe 22), nice smile, about 5'2, 125-35 pounds, man made C cups, proportional, nice ass, decent waist and hips, no noticable tatoos, long, straight light, brown hair, light skin, she is a solid 7 in looks and 8 in body.
She wore a one piece with wedges rather than stripper heels and did not dance on the stage nor the bars.
She was working the afternoon shift (maybe 4pm to 12am) on a busy Sunday.
She received a few ficha invitations but did not go arriba, also PLs approached her but walked away.
I approached her and offered a ficha, with no tables available (and she did not want to walk up to the second floor) we sat at the stage, she would alternate between sitting on my lap and standing, making small talk, after about two minutes she asks to go arriba, with a big grin I tell her "I'm thinking about it" which usually pleases the BG and leads to arriba but she takes one last sip of her drink and walks away saying she is available for $100.
Thanks, but no thanks.
OK, YMMV, but leaving after drinking half a drink and a super quick press seems to me to be potential Shark/ROB behavior:
Approach At Your Own Risk.
There are too many BGs to waste your time and money on a potential shark/ROB.
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64 comments
What lines do people think she crossed?
A real shark or ROB has to get your money. This one did not.
I mean if it were me dealing with her, if I liked her, she would have gotten front room money and a front room makeout session would have ensued, and we would have gotten to know each other and I'd of really come on to her. Then I would have invited her arriba, TLN arriba.
SJG
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keeping my eyes open for this potential disappointment.
????
If it were me, if I wanted to proceed with her I'd be treating her in a completely civilian manner. I'd be coming on to her verbally, and she'd be getting front room tips, and a front room makeout sessions would be underway.
What did she do wrong? What should she have done differently?
SJG
I guess you had to be there.
I believe TJ TUSCLers understand the PSA.
But it doesn't sound like you were making it happen with her either.
And this means that she was a potential shark / ROB?
SJG
Cameo Intimates, out of business now.
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For those who have dealt with BGs should understand why I posted the PSA.
Yes, I consider myself lucky.
Found someone right after worth the time and effort, plan on seeing her again soon.
Maybe she's just got her own ideas about how she likes to go about it.
If she were with me, and if I liked her, it would have gone completely differently.
SJG
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Her walking away with half a drink remaining cheated you of your full time and is unacceptable.
In the organization I am building such behavior will not go unpunished.
Thank you understanding the problem, I appreciate your organization's tireless work to improving the Monger experience.
Imagine if you met a girl at a party and decided you wanted to make it happen with her. You have to come on to her verbally. And usually kissing her will be a key and necessary step.
In the HK bar, the girls are working for money. Front room money helps. But also some clear interest from you, not this "thinking about it".
If you aren't moving, then of course she will go on to someone else. She left a clear door open in quoting you the $100.
With each girl you will have to decide, fish or cut bait. Best not to waste their time.
Best if you select and approach. But if the girl approaches you, that is still good. But you do have to decide.
What happened happened.
I'd like to hear from our other TJ mongers. Is there something this girl did which rates calling her Shark / ROB? I certainly don't see it.
SJG
The PSA was for the TJ TUSCLers Mongers, likely they understand why I posted this.
I am not going to explain anything more than was already posted, it should suffice.
The PSA is for those in TJ or plan on visiting soon.
Just put SJG on ignore, it makes everything so much better.
And what would that have been?
SJG
SJG I'd say she was a possible ROB/shark just from her leaving without even taking the time to finish the fisha. Plus she alternated standing and sitting on his lap, that sounds like she's already shying away from contact. So you could only imagine how worse it could have went in the room.
TBH I'd actually prefer if the sharks exposed themselves like this. A lot of times, those bargirl sharks are great at hiding their dorsal fins. They're all touchy feely on the floor and acting happy and playful. Then the second you get them upstairs it's like a switch is flipped and they turn into a fembot.
This is a great PSA because it warns folks about this girl who might do just that: act more friendly then she did with Cristobal on the floor, then get to the room and turn into something totally different. Those were my worst experiences in TJ, when girls that did that. I'll take whatever help I can get to avoid that again. So thanks, Cristobal.
Thanks TFP for explaining frankly how you see it. But as I see it, what you are describing does not constitute a Shark or ROB, those are much more serious accusations. An ROB is one who takes your money and gives nothing. A Shark is more like one who gives as little as possible but is very aggressive about getting the money.
As is widely reported and shown in surreptitious videos, Front Room Friendliness goes quite far in the HK Bar. And siting on a guy's lap, the girl is encouraging it. Even standing right in front of him, that offers lots of possibilities.
So if the guy turned on some verbal charm, and maybe some good will front room money too, and a front room makeout session should have ensued. And they could get to know each other, with some money and making it take some time, and then I think everything would be fine. If they went arriba, it should have been real nice, even mind blowing.
I don't see any reason at all to say she is a suspected ROB. As far as a Shark, I don't see that either. She didn't even try very hard to get any money.
And as far as the drink, the less alcohol that gets poured into pretty girls, the better.
Now if the guy tried to engage her in front room friendliness and it did not work, then of course best to shine her on. But that still does not mean there is anything wrong about her.
Maybe she is a mediocre provider. But this is one of the reasons why FRMOS's are so important. Not just to test her, but to build intimate rapport with her, give her the chance to open up.
So sure, Cristobal was best in shinning her on if things weren't happening front room. But if he had applied some more charm, and maybe tactfully some more money, things might have gone extremely well front room, and arriba. Might be seeing for regular MSOG-TLN's.
Where I take exception is in the two types of accusations made against her. I don't think they apply.
SJG
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Your "exception" is noted.
Hopefully, when you go to HKTJ you find Frances and have a great experience.
I meanwhile need to make arrangements to see a BG by appointment.
BTW, it will be in the Zona at HK, no front room make out session and no TNL.
On the whole I have found, and often heard, that women really let go when they can see that a guy really likes them, they feel it in their bones.
DFKing her, and in front of other people, its like a way of claiming her. Without that, it could be all just talk. She really needs to feel that aggression and see that kind of public display.
Enjoy your BG Cristobal. You'll find your own way. Have a good time!
SJG
Still, it's hard to take you seriously about what you would or wouldn't do in TJ since you have yet to even visit. I could talk about DFKing every girl in the club, or getting TLN with any chick I wanted in the club, or starting some organization with stripper grade hotties as members. Wouldn't mean much of shit if I didn't follow through on any of it even after years of talking about it.
Yeah, it reads like he may be stuck too much on his definitions but the point was my Spidey sense said this BG is not going to be fun, so I wanted to warn TUSCL nation.
But you get it because you have been there, so I did not have to go into super detail to explain why I posted the PSA.
Cristobal, "Spidey sense said this BG is not going to be fun", yes none of us have anything to go by except for that. So as it was not happening, you were right to shine her on. But saying that she was of malicious intent or that someone else would not like her, no basis for that. And ROB is the most serious of accusations.
From the OP, I suspect that she was often on her feet because she wanted to pull the guy to his feet to go arriba. Nothing wrong with her trying to do that. They work for money, and that is mainly how they get it. Nothing wrong with what she was offering.
But just like in US clubs, buying dances without intimate rapport is for chumps. Same thing in the higher mileage Mexican venues, don't want to go arriba without intimate rapport.
Maybe she is a good provider, maybe not.
Maybe she is new to that venue and has yet to figure out how to work it. Wrong kind of shoes, maybe she is new. First thing I thought when I heard about the wedgies, is that maybe she is one of the Sidewalk School Girls, not yet acclimated to the new venue.
Cristobal and our other TJ Mongers, how would a more typical HK BG have handled that initial encounter and the fisha drink?
SJG
The best thing about HK is that, on a busy night, there can be 100 BG and SG outside. Don’t waste anything on anyone who doesn’t really want it.
It's the weirdest thing in the world that he's wildly fascinated with the place, lives close by, and has numerous people offer to sponsor his trip. And yet still won't go because of these mysterious affairs that prevent him from being able to do anything or go anywhere.
All this info is taken from his own prior postings BTW. I'm too lazy to go back in post links to every cited post like Nicespice does. But if you look through his EXTENSIVE post history you'll eventually find it.
Others have offered to pay for SJG to visit TJ, to no avail, his reply: too busy with other projects
On a busy weekend night there might 300 or 400 BGs at HK, it is an amazing sight.
You are correct there are other places that have something like BGs.
But from my experience at LA, COI, and even SJ SCs, there is nothing like TJ.
I still feel like a newbie, learning new things every visit.
There is no way to describe properly how I feel when I walk through the curtains and absorb the scene.
And Cristobal, you could be going to strip clubs in Antartica, but that still would not make your middle-aged male PL Dear Abby narratives the least bit more coherent.
The girls in those clubs work for money, not for drinks. Pushing drinks and getting a small amount of money out of that is just a time honor tradition of making money for the house. What they expect is money in larger increments.
ROB is about the most serious accusation which could be made against a sex worker. And Shark is just a broader allegation. This girls did not even get your money.
To those who monger in TJ, how would a more typical HK BG have handled that encounter and the fischa?
SJG
Based on his own text, I see that as an unreasonably accusatory thing to say.
Now of course, it is entirely within his prerogative to decline to session with her. If it wasn't happening between the two of them, he really has no other choice.
My suspicion is that she was just new to that venue, and hence you might say, rather awkward or inept at the initial encounters.
But I also see nothing in Cristobal's narrative to suggest that he ever made any efforts to engage with her, soften her up, or get under her skin. He had not decided that he wanted to arriba her. He does not understand that even in a P4P venue, girls do respond well to a guy who shows some initiative of his own.
That is his prerogative to decline, but it does not give him cause to suspect her motives or to try and blacklist her.
That TJ venue sounds awesome. But I guess it is just like it is in the US clubs. Only about 1 to 2% of the customers have womanizing skills commensurate with their age, marriage experience, or with the amount of money they are dropping. The rest are truly PLs.
Some of it I chalk up to divorce. I think Cristobal has just gone thru one. A guy has got to reinvent himself, and that can take over a decade. Until then it really shows on him.
The actor Tony Curtis wrote about living in Las Vegas, "Using show girls like a drug, one or two per day."
It happens, but even if it is in the most enviable location on the globe, that does not mean it is something to emulate.
So I ask those who monger in TJ, how would a more typical TJ BG have handled that encounter and the fischa?
SJG
SJG
I do not have to be robbed to warn someone to be careful, where to avoid, or who to watch out for.
I also know most, if not all, who have been to HKTJ understand why I would post this warning.
No need to explain the details.
TJ sounds like a fantastic venue, but it does not have a monopoly on bar girls. And those girls, they do work for money, not for free drinks.
Of course you have to decline to arriba with a girl if the vibes are not right.
But it also sounds like you were still sitting on the fence, undecided as to whether or not you like her.
So she must have sensed this, and so she left, but quoting you a price in case you had a change of heart.
So I ask Cristobal and all of those who partake in the HK bar, how would a more typical BG have handled that initial encounter and the fischa drink?
SJG
I know the BGs work for money and by the way the drinks are not free.
The original post says it all for the TJ Monger to understand the PSA.
No need for me to discuss how other BGs should react.
This is an online forum. It is not a Circle Jerk of people who always see things the same way.
SJG
Seems like she just sensed that you were on the fence about whether or not she liked you. She acted to cut losses, but she also left a door open by quoting you a price.
SJG
SJG
The PSA is not about her crossing a line but for those with TJ BG experience they will understand why they should be cautious of any BG who behaves this way.
The PSA from my humble viewpoint is not to discuss how they should act but rather to advise about something to watch for.
I consider it my duty to share my experiences (good and bad) to help the brethren.
This Frances, I gather that she approached and I guess sat down, and was quite insistent about getting her fitcha drink.
I suspect that it was her insistence, and then her not even staying to finish it, which set Cristobal off. It made her come across as not demure, but as very aggressive in getting something which costs money.
Well again I point out that she may have been new to the venue, not even having the proper footwear. She might not have known what the norms are.
Well guess what, we have women who can be that aggressive about drinks right here in Santa Clara County. And I too find it disconcerting.
Most of the time it is outside hookers who come in. They will just say, "Buy Me A Drink".
Most of the time these women are not dressed very sexy and they do not look nice. Never has been one that I have wanted to partake with. They demand their drink. You almost just want to hand them some money and then walk away from them. And I have done this.
I guess I could make an excuse and just not give them money at all.
And then, I think learning from these hookers, sometimes the house dancers do the same thing, "Buy Me A Drink". Now the house dancers are nice looking and all dolled up. But still, it is not that pleasant usually. Our clubs are much lower cost, and so one might not have that much extra money. And I am talking about my own PL days, hanging out in such clubs regularly, to avoid a lethal marriage.
One dancer really liked me and had made it clear she wanted to be going out with me. So her intentions were honorable.
But sometimes I have not wanted to make the effort to talk with a dancer. It does take effort to entertain women verbally. Usually I like it. But most of the time, that is when I have selected them.
With the unsolicited "Buy Me A Drink", that is usually not pleasant.
So I am thinking that this Frances set our OP off that way, and then it just went downhill from there.
Okay, but I still don't think that rates a PSA, using her name, or calling her a possible Shark or ROB.
I mean, if Warrior15 had approached her with his Ass Grab System, she might have given an arriba which was second to none.
TJ is not a unique place. We have hard core money hustling, off the hook, and outlaw women, right here in San Jose and Sunnyvale. And I actually consider the White Girls to be the hardest shelled. Looking at the current crew of regular posters, I would say that I have a longer experience history with such women than half of them. And with Cristobal, my experience goes back decades further.
Let me just say this in defense of Frances. She has to push drinks to stay in good graces with the house.
I don't like that alcohol pushing. I hope she dumps her drinks somewhere. Don't need alcohol going into pretty girls.
It seems like Cristobal was additionally tweaked when she walked off. I would just point out that he did snub her, and she did leave a door open by quoting a price. Probably she did not really want a drink. She is just expected to do that.
So if you walk in there, you have to expect that. And really, if you don't like her, it is better if she goes. Talking to girls takes energy.
Here in CA we have stricter alcohol laws than most of the rest of the country. And so while we can have hostess bars, there are rules. Our local strip clubs are not intended to be hostess bars, but sometimes things work out the same way.
With soft drinks though, there are no rules. I have been in soft drink hostess bars, Asian. And sometimes our strip clubs are also soft drink hostess bars. Been to DV San Francisco, end up paying for grossly overpriced dancer drinks, and waitress tips expected.
And then much is written about the "relentless drink hustle", soft drinks, in SoCal.
That's just how it is. The house has a right to try and make money, and they really have to.
You just have to face it. But once you select a girl and hook up with her, that issue gets neutralized.
In the TJ places, we know that some of the girls lead with DFKing. But then it is always "Arriba or Ficha".
If you want to spend time with her, it has to be one of those two. But maybe you can extend the front room time via front room tipping. And same for approaching her when she is on stage of just standing.
All time and attention does cost money.
But this is why I think it better to get your girl OTC, XZona.
Quick move to Arriba is what Warrior15 suggests, and that makes sense, if your primary concern is avoiding collateral costs.
But I would say that if you want to be seeing a girl regularly and moving to longer sessions, then money spent arranging it so you start with more front room time will be worth it.
I have talked for hours with some of our local strippers, front room. They are just like any other young women.
So my read on this is that Frances perturbed Cristobal by being too aggressive in asking for a fischa drink. While that may have spoiled it for them right off, I still say that that did not warrant any PSA about her, or using her name, or suggesting that she could be a Shark or ROB.
You go into such venues, you do have to deal with such stuff. This is yet another reason why it is better to remove the ambiguity by selecting and approaching the girl you want, and as well, bring enough money for unknown contingencies.
TJ sounds like an awesome venue, but no, those who monger in TJ are still often highly deficient in womanizing experience and skills.
And no, this is not a PL circle jerk. People are not always going to agree with what is posted.
SJG
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This PSA is for TUSCLers who visit or will visit HKTJ because from the original post they will figure it out.
I applaud you trying to figure it out but you did not.
Do not worry too much for Frances or any other BG or DS who gets called out, there are more than enough PLs to go around.
SJG
In the organization I am building, posts will be capped at a 100-word limit.
SJG
You are right though, I am still trying to figure it all out and I have plenty of great experiences while doing so.
I will soon post a review about my time at Adelita's Bar, enjoy the read.
Not even having the requisite foot wear, she probably was new and had not yet learned how it is done.
Speaking for myself, getting her shoe size would be a priority.
Otherwise it is entirely up to you, if a girl approaches you, you have to decide, and likely decide fast. Best not to tie up their time unless intend to make something cum of it.
SJG
The other girls get that and more all the time. And she gets that and more too.
So digging her heels into the floor and trying to pull you to your feet was her last ditch effort to try save a sinking situation. And I don't think she was asking for too much. Considering what arriba actually means, I think she was being very giving of herself.
Now of course, it is always better if you can select the girl and approach her yourself. That way she never needs to see you sitting on the fence, at least not about her looks.
And it is like Country man said, he never sits down until he has got his girl by the hand. And then, one way or another, that front room makeout session is going to happen.
And sure most girls won't kiss you. They want you to kiss them, and they want you to do a good job of it too.
If a girl does approach you, she is not doing anything wrong, and she should never be treated harshly or in any way which would undermine her self esteem. But it does mean that you will have to make a decision. If it is to be no, then best to be generous and just send her off right away. Make her think you are waiting for someone.
For myself, I would have tended to favor a thumbs up decision, and then it would have been just like I had selected her. I'd of really made something happen with her.
Also, the more aggressive some of the women are being with you, then likely the more aggressive the one you select will let you be with her. So aggressive women are a huge plus. Just don't ever trash their self esteem.
SJG
SJG
SJG
1. The original post is just under 2 years old and completely irrelevant now.
2. This 2icee person has got to be seriously bored to try and troll an irrelevant post from two years ago written by someone who is on hiatus from mongering.
3. There used to be much higher quality trolling on this website. 2icee needs to seriously up his game.
I took it as a very bad sign if a BG declined to sit for a ficha, it took me a few "average" arriba experiences to decide if a BG declines a ficha better to pass and move onto to someone else.
My best arriba experiences were almost always preceeded by a good ficha experience.
Conversely, a few BGs definitely acted not interested during ficha time, I respect that plenty of BGs to spend my money on.
In your case, sounds like she may well have been tired or just uninterested at the moment. It happens and it's no big deal... they're independents with the ability to say no if they want to. A situation like Christobal's where the BG bails before finishing her drink is rarer and different because it's bad for business. All it takes is a word to the mesero and she will hear about it in a not nice way because accepting the ficha carries an expectation that she didn't meet.
"Hes butthurt a hooker didn't spend time with him for free."
File under trolling, low grade.
When/if you actually go to HK, you'll actually be able to speak from direct experience and not just send out random thoughts from mommy's basement until in-person high school starts up again. Best wishes for the coming school year.
On two occasions this happened, the BGs provided great overtime service, one had the potential to become a CFBG.
To me that was the great thing about the Mongering in TJ experience, the variety of situations and the fun with the BGs.
SJG