Pregnancy termination is a woman's right. It is a unique situation which arises from the woman's own agency and control over her own body, rather than being reduced to only a container of potential future life.
This border wall is a red herring it’s just Trump pandering to his base bet it doesn’t get built and the fight over it lasts till the 2020 election! You guys are so gullible.
^^^^^^ Probably talking about extreme medical complications where inducing labor is the only safe way. These situations are not for the squeamish, many medical things are not. But a woman must be able to maintain control over her body.
Extremely interesting novel about such a case pertaining to a minor, and with parents who are Catholic anti-abortion activists, and intersecting with the Evangelical anti-abortion movement. The young woman would have been in dire straights without the procedure, and there was zero chance of anything like health and well being for the fetus. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000QC…
But these are medical cases, requiring medical decisions, to be made by the pregnant woman in consultation with her doctor, not by her parents, not by judges, and not by clergy or politicians.
No that is not what New York passed, you can either stop being a lazy asshole and look it up for yourself of close that echo chamber of you and your nutjob thoughts tighter.
SJG, read some news about New York allowing third trimester abortions, and listen to Virginia governor Northam's actual radio interview. Then come back here and tell me again how nobody is arguing for abortions up until birth.
You are 100% incorrect.
I expect you to come back and retract your comment.
This is the reason that our government is all tied up in knots and accomplishing nothing, you can’t even stick to a single issue and resolve it, that’s whats going on here.
The New York Post is not a responsible or credible news source. It is Right Wing tripe. Just looking at the language used in the article, one can see how much it is spinning it. It is not really worth the time required to come up with another source.
DC, as long term supporter of abortion rights, I disagree with your assessment. NARAL is a very reasonable organization, the New York Post is known to be like the National Enquirer, and I agree with those who are endorsing this new NY Reproductive Health Act. Late term abortions are very rare, but sometimes they are necessary, and the decision has to be made by the pregnant woman in consultation with her doctor.
Because ime posted the link. The Internet is saturated with right wing news. it is tough. You guys read that stuff.
24 weeks, very reasonable. Most people go along with this. And again, it is the pregnant woman who makes this decision in consultation with her doctor, not anyone else. The law cannot intercede.
The border wall Trump is asking for is only $6 billion, much less than the cost of a website for Obomacare (over $6 billion) that unconstitutionally mandates the public to buy a product, healthcare, which isn’t even a constitutional right (health).
It is a personal circumstance (health) and for events outside the norm we have social programs to cover, not all events, but most. I feel sorry for the ones who fall through the cracks, but that happens in any large institutional program. SSI covers way more than it should, due to the abuse of the system, but that’s OK by SJG!
It is Justice Blackmun who came up with the trimester rule, restricting state regulations to the third trimester. And so @founder's like to NY legislation is entirely consistent with that.
It is a disturbing idea. I am not aware of it being legal except in extreme cases where the life or health of the mother is in jeopardy. But again, I will echo Al Gore in the 1992 VP Debate, "A woman has a right to choose what she does with her body."
Its just how it goes, the woman has a power and has rights which no one else has and no one else can interfere with. If we try to interfere, those rights will get exercised in some other manner.
Here in CA we have Safe Drop Off Stations. Sometimes these are necessary.
Finds a neutral language, spends much time talking with activists on both sides, and tries to make their work views understandable. Author does not take a position herself.. Truly eye opening.
"Do you believe that a woman in labor can choose at that time to abort her baby? That is what is being proposed in Virginia."
I am not seeing that in the newest NY law. So you say it is in the proposed VA law, I am skeptical that this is the same sort of interpretation coming through right wing media. But hell, I have time to waste, lets look at it.
And to answer your question, no I do not believe in that. It is only when the health or life of the mother are at risk. Nature is not always pretty. There are key junctures which are really dicey.
And this right wing media, hydra headed, it is a real problem.
What kind of a world do you right wingers live in, and how could you possibly have lived in this world and gotten there. Its like you would have to have been living inside of a hole in the ground?
Seriously though, with how easy it has become to NOT get pregnant, or to terminate it in the first month, I see no reason to even have such a need for a law that allows third trimester abortions.
But wtf do I know. I'm just an old white guy. The enemy of a new America.
Only when life or health of mother is at risk. Otherwise states can under Roe v Wade still impose restrictions. This New York newest law does limit it to end of 2nd trimester, except when life or health is at risk. So it is the woman and her doctor who must decide.
That NY Post article was toilet paper.
As far as ease of not getting pregnant, things sometimes happen. And this gets into a primal area, sometimes both men and women will make primal choices which may seem strange.
The existence of these right wing news sources and pressure groups is a serious problem.
The law that Cuomo recently signed and celebrated allows it through the THIRD trimester. In other words, so long as the baby has not yet been born he or she can be legally aborted. It's disgusting.
Only if life or health of mother is in jeopardy. She makes decision with her doctor, not made by judges, politicians, clergy, or her parents. Consistent with current and well accepted practice.
Sounds like you flagooner are reading right wing disinformation news.
3rd Trimester only when life or health of the mother is in jeopardy. It will be a decision she has to make with her doctor. Very small percentage of abortions done so late, and there are always extreme reasons.
1 is too many. A small percentage of a lot is still a lot.
The determination of the health of the motger is left up to the physician. It can be as little as the "mother" claiming that she would be depressed if she were to give birth.
Damn, I'm letting him troll me again. I gotta stop reading his ridiculous posts.
I am a Leftist, and I work hard to expand my own understanding. But what I go by I believe to be accurate and fair.
Flagooner, you sell women short, and their doctors too. That kind of "depression" argument might have been used before Roe V Wade, but now that this is all out in the open.
But also consider, women are people, they want to have a future. The depression argument is really what they used before, and up to 2nd trimester. Not beyond that.
Again, right wing EMOTIONAL MANIPULATION disinformation news.
What's next? SGJ saying it should be legal to do abortions if it's only an hour after birth if the procedural process started before the birth? If it's ok to kill babies in New York per new laws issued by democrats, then I'm wondering what will be legal next. Doesn't make it moral, ethical or right in my book.
I think we should abort SJG right now. I vote to allow 183rd trimester abortions, and we let society make the determination if it grew up to be a viable fetus, or in SJG's case had a mental birth defect that was detected later on in life.
They should also allow doctors to do abortions with a gun, liberal politicians always seem care if a child is murdered with a gun, unless of course the child is black and killed by a Chicago gang, or any white person killed by an illegal alien. Funny how we never get an outcry then.
Liberals are the party of since though...if a baby is born with x and y chromosomes does that make them a male?? Not anymore, nope, the child can choose what they want to be...because of science! If 2 of the same genders can't procreate yet they choose to mate, does that make them abnormal? Nope, it apparently makes me a bigot for thinking a scene on tv or a movie were 2 dudes kiss is disgusting to watch. (I'll conceded I don't mind watching 2 attractive women kiss, but besides porn I can't recall the last thing I watched were 2 hot women kissed, now days it's all 2 guys or 2 ugly old lesbians)
Yes good old science, it's only allowed to use computer modeling to show the universe came from nothing and not God, and that humanity is doomed if we don't give up plastic straws and all drive cars powered by coal power plants with batteries full of toxic chemicals.
SJG writes “But hell, I have time to waste, let’s look at it.”
I thought you were involved in local politics 24/7, and I also thought you were building an organization that provides its members free sex 24/7 with stripper grade hotties? Doesn’t all your activities preclude you from posting ad hominem on a strip club website about left wing nut job topics?
Local political activism is about more basic issues, ususally about thwarting real estate developers and police crackdowns. My organization is based on political action, and on having victories to show.
Women have demanded control over their bodies, and that means access and decision making over their health care, without having to justify it to anyone.
Sickening really, the guys who fuck strippers for money, and then would brand a woman a criminal or humiliate her over an abortion which she decided was necessary.
It is sick. Its disgusting but fits in with their overall misogyny.... They view women as things to buy and use for their own pleasure, while berating them. So why would they respect a woman's reproductive rights when they don't respect anything else about them? And as for viewing abortions as criminal, being a trick can get them jail time....needing an abortion can't
Why do you assume it’s a stripper that is Getting pregnant by a John? By your logic SJG, this small amount of probability would make it seem unnecessary since the majority of raped women come from lower socio-economic status people, not from rich white old guys! So why did you take the conversation to assume it was pregnant strippers we had this topic about?
This is all about your left wing agenda, which is all about pandering to the emotionally weak in order to garner votes for lifetime politicians on the left.
You know what is sick, believeing your won tripe as righteous truth, which is in fact unadulterated bullshit. It is the equivalency of heading a stripper web girl say that only a strong and secure man can date a stripper.
What is sickening are the Right Wing Misogynists who want to fuck strippers, but at the same time are denigrating them. This means you Meat72.
And don't assume I would ever encourage anyone to do anything I am not already doing. I want the poor and marginalized to rise up and start to fight back, and make you Meat72 into the marginalized and penalized.
^^^ More ad hominem attacks from the left, SJG. You say I’m denigrating strippers, but never explained how I am doing that, so how am I denigrating them? please give specifics instead of general attacks!
Why would you want to see me marginalized, SJG? Are you liking to put me down in order to lift yourself up? That’s straight out of the progressive mantra, right SJG?
Sexually desiring women, though I doubt you Meat72 can even get it up for them, while at the same time wanting to penalize them from having an abortion which they and their doctor think is appropriate is severely denigrating them. And then your whole world view is based on the idea that our society should have two tiers. Democracy cannot work that way.
Our society, with the middle-class family, with drugs and alcohol, with Born Again Christianity, and with the Mental Health System, creates its own underclass.
Robin Trower - Full Concert - Rockpalast Crossroads, Bonn - 2005 ( I listen to this, and sorry to say, I can't understand how anyone could ever settle for acoustic guitar music. And then of course, I think solid body is the best of the best )
God forbid anyone have a left wing agenda..... How can anyone support women's rights, reproductive rights, social and economic justice.... stand up against racism, xenophobia, misogyny.... How dare anyone do that, right Meat?
Meat, does it make you feel good and moral to say you oppose abortion while you sneak out and fuck yourself a hooker????
PaulDrake, by your logic you and every other right wing nutjob here must be the same person.
Its really delusional of you to assume that most people agree with the type of misogyny, racism, classism, xenophobia etc that gets promoted by a vocal minority on here.
You can't say shit so you resort to ad hominem attacks.
Tell us about the good old days when women gays and minorities knew their place... How about the great times before the New Deal.... Wouldn't it be great if you could wear that hood out in public again as a sign of white pride???
Funny thing is you know damn well you'd never talk to strangers like this IRL. You only do it on here because of your perceived illusion of semi anonymity
Which medical device do you prefer for your 39 week abortion, IceyLoco. Forceps, vice grips, maybe some sort of poison, or the dreaded old coat hanger?
For a rabid righteous woman rights activist, you sure pretend to have human rights as your bully pulpet! Except in this case your hypocrisy precludes you from being humane. You prefer to find murder in its legal form so you can impregnate all the strippers as your monkey ass can spew. When someone throws aluminum foil on the ground, do you get down and bat it all over the place like a gorilla
Meat72, you prefer women pregnant and barefoot in the kitchen? Minorities in their place? You support murder when its war in the name of corporate profits....when its people dying of poverty(lack of access to nutritious food, to affordable health care, etc)....
Look, IceyLoco took his paws off the aluminum foil he’s been batting around long enough to provide the forum with more ad hominem attacks.
The next thing he will do is create another lame ass topic and be the only one commenting, the same way that SJG does. It’s the extreme nut jobs in our world like Icey that love to have any platform to spew fake news about people places and things to further their socialistic agenda and divide the working class into a two tier society.
How do you believe your Keynesian economic policies will bail your lazy ass welfare state out of debt in 10-20 years, Icey? Simply by utilizing basic income so we can print more money to create an illusion of wealth amongst your poor voters?
In general I believe in exceptions to rules NOT rules for exceptions. Most of this bullshit is based on what about the health of the mother, what about rape, what about incest..... those are exceptions and should be dealt with appropriately. All too often abortion is used as a means of birth control and that I do not agree with.
Second question, what does planned parenthood provide that is not covered by Obamacare..... now that I am paying for everyone's healthcare I dont think we should double up by paying planned parenthood and I also believe it's my money and my choice.
Meat72, you're right.... the lazy ass welfare state needs to go. Let the private sector fail. No more tax loopholes for the rich and businesses, no more bankruptcy to avoid debt obligations, no more tolerating them hiring illegal labor, no more corporate welfare....If they fail they fail....its not the gov's job to have their back in any way whatsoever. Let them be accountable for all of their actions and decisions without a nanny state watching over them.
"Let the private sector fail." __________ Yeah, except sometimes that's not possible. For example in 2008 where we were forced to give AIG $85 billion dollars because of the systemic risk of the credit-default swaps that they couldn't cover. And, yes, it was absolutely impossible to let them fail.
Don't make excuses for the corporate welfare state. Corporate welfare is promotes a socialist nanny state. The private sector needs the freedom to do as it pleases without such regulations placed over it. If we can fuck the poor over, we can take away socialism for capitalists as well.
Your post doesn't make any sense @Icey, as usual. Nobody wants "corporate welfare" on either side of the political spectrum. You either have enough government regulation to prevent a crisis like we had in 2008, or you're forced bail out the big financial institutions to prevent the next great depression.
I suggest you work on your language comprehension if you don't think I make sense. But I make sense enough for you to reply. Don't pull that white boy shit where white boys pretend they don't understand something thinking it makes them look smart.
I love how hypocritical you all are.... You justify corporate bailouts ie the ultimate welfare the ultimate gov involvement in the economy, while attempting to justify fucking over the poor, women and minorities lmfao
so much for your supposed values.
now go get a hooker so you can go to confession on Sunday
@twentyfive and @Meat72 As is usually the case, when an updated abortion law is introduced, it is just an affirmation of current practice. The law only allows third trimester abortions when the life or health of the mother is in jeopardy. Psychological health is not interpreted as fulfilling this.
The idea that nature is all hearts and flowers is just fiction. Birth is risky. What ensues can be really disturbing. They only do the types of abortions you are talking about when the alternative is worse. Highest ratio of new born weight to mother weight. The results can be ugly.
The idea that this is being used as "contraception", is just denigrating women who are pro-sex. Such women are responsible. They don't need you second guessing them.
@Meat72 and PaulDrake, if you actually were reading people's posts, you would know that I, Icey, and Countryman are all different people.
@RandomMember, corporate welfare is just the result of the economic and influence power that such corporations have. It is not necessary for the well being of our society. On the otherhand, federal involvement in the economy is absolutely necessary if we want to maintain a middle income range. Historically other societies always devolve into the very rich and the very poor. Before the Civil War, this middle-class subsidy was obtained by access to free and low cost land. After the Civil War this was no longer available. So we had the Guided Age and the Reactionary Politics of hte 1880's, the rise of Social Darwinism to justify the wealth divide, and then finally the Granger Movement wanting for the first time to limit the power of big business. Then to soak up excess the excess productive capability which Capitalism always brings, the first World War, people and materials being poured into battles which went on for a long as 10 months.
Then finally with the New Deal we had the application of Keynesianism, using progressive taxation and spending to keep the middle in tact. This worked for a very long time. With some changes, it would still work, but it was rejected when Reagan was elected.
Without Keynesianism, the middle sector of the economic hierarchy would disappear, and democracy could not withstand that.
I suspect that you are someone who speaks of "paying taxes". Well when money is taken for your paycheck and when you have to write an April 15th check, that is money that you never had any legal or moral claim to. So while many speak of paying taxes, it is not really so. People don't pay taxes. When you negotiated your job, or made your investment trades, that was already subject to current and any updated tax codes.
Women do not need your permission to have private control over their bodies, or to have that be publicly paid for.
I am a past time financial supporter of Planned Parenthood and Naral. Still a strong philosophical and political supporter.
We all have to make concessions to live in this society. Taxation and public funding tor lots of stuff is one of them.
How are abortions your financial responsibility? If the private insurance you have pays for it, then complain about their choice as a private sector company.
Oh, and @Icey Because of Obamacare private sector companies are unable to provide plans that don't include coverage for abortion, or do you not remember the lawsuit that the catholic church filed to get an exemption.
Most abortions are paid for by people who pay for private insurance. Its their money...
Now if you guys cared as much about born children and women.... or do you just see them as a source for prostitution? Keep em destitute and desperate...
How is this thread going on? All the NY law says is that the state will follow Roe v. Wade which allowed late term abortions up to viability (about 24 weeks), and later, only if necessary to protect mother’s life or health, or if some consequence regarding the fetus was discovered that couldn’t have been discovered prior. This isn’t much of a change IMO.
I’ve also had SJG on ignore for years and am not reading his posts, which looks like more than 1/3 of the posts and I’m sure full of BS.
Respect, but your statement oversimplifies it. The NY law which I read merely codifies what has been the law for nearly 50 years but I think there’s been some confusion. I didn’t read the VA law, just the summary in the Atlantic you linked.
“Late term” refers to the time up to viability. Viability is usually up to 24 weeks, but can be longer if something happens in utero so that the fetus is no longer viable. To choose a hopefully non-controversial example, for instance if he fetus is injured in a car accident in the 30th week.
The other way to stretch the limits beyond the 24th week is if the mother is in danger. Again, I’ll use my car accident example. I would value mother’s life over fetus when writing the law. Nothing would prevent a mother from choosing her unborn baby’s life over her own if that was an option.
The article in the Atlantic was trying to say it was “easy” to get an 8 month abortion by just getting a doctor to say mother’s life was in danger when it wasn't really in danger. That risk has always been the case and that’s malpractice and illegal. Maybe it’s an enforcement issue but this is fake news. Neither NY nor VA can pass laws that conflict with federal law or the constitution, which has been interpreted by Roe and affirmed many times.
The Right is in love with the fetus. It does not want women to be accorded agency, full citizenship. It does not want them to have choice, but to be compelled.
Late term abortions are very rare, and only done when there is medical necessity. But if it went to delivery, the tools brought into play would be exactly those used for the most extreme case of late term abortions.
If we have Universal Health Care, then reproductive care and abortion will have to be part of it. People who offer private care cannot engage in religious discrimination. So abortion and contraception have to be in it.
A comprehensive minimum care level across the board, housing, food, medical, clothing, transportation, should be the guaranteed benefits of advanced industrialization.
And with the Cold War over, we should not be making up more bull shit, like border walls and wars on drugs or terrorism, we should be making sure everyone's basic needs are taken care of with Universal Basic Income ( UBI ), and done in conjunction with the public offering of services, so that UBI works as intended, rather than just fattening slum lords.
The denigration of the poor started with Capitalism. That was the only way to drive peasants off of land and to make them work for starvation wages in factories. And still to this day, denigration of the poor is what the political Right depends upon. That takes a huge toll on people and families.
UBI is not needs tested, it become a basic right. Everyone gets it, need it or not.
As it stands today we have some very limited sorts of welfare, but being needs tested what that does most is regulate and pillory the poor.
Then on top of that, with the Recovery Movement ( often government funded or supported ), with the Evangelical Christian Movement and its Faith Based Charities, and then with the Mental Health System, the poor get cut to ribbons, and so they become completely docile, rather than the political force and the armed revolutionary force which are so desperately needed.
So SJG, since you’re a know it all on everything, why is is that when an abortion is performed they have to tear apart the baby limb by limb while he or she is alive? Or are you gender neutral and believe an unborn baby gets to decide which gender to identify with?
There is absolutely no reason in cases where the mother chooses to abort that infantcide needs to happen. They can induce labor, or even perform a C section, but in your mind an unborn baby has no feelings and doesnt even have any rights! So it’s fine for you to say they can crucify an 8 month term baby with horrible pain limb by limb, all for the sake for women’s rights? That’s some fucked up logic, and do you know you’re going to hell for allowing those things to happen, SJG? You’re an evil person for believing party lines on such an inhumane topic.
Meat72, judging from your posts I take it you're a medical doctor and a constitutional lawyer.
I also take it your definition of when life begins in the womb are based on Judeo-Christian beliefs. Which is very interesting for someone so enraptured by prostitutes and strip clubs.
Meat72, judging from your posts I take it you're a medical doctor and a constitutional lawyer.
I also take it your definition of when life begins in the womb are based on Judeo-Christian beliefs. Which is very interesting for someone so enraptured by prostitutes and strip clubs.
^^^ Rxeza, are you some sort of self righteous Fag? Your first comments after being a member on this site for a year, and subsequent ones are all of no value and snarky. I guess you must be the new know it all after SJG.
Glad your obsessed with my posts. You should be for I provide value, and you provide fodder for faggits!
Now, let’s get back to SJG logic, as messed up as it is, and see how fucked up left wing nut jobs can be.
Are you an MD or a constitutional lawyer? A gender studies professor? A social worker? A political scientist? A priest/rabbi/imam? You claim to have a lot of self proclaimed authority yet espouse nothing but a typical uneducated visceral argument for everything. In other words, another rabid redneck/white trash type with a keyboard.
I'm not "randumbmembr" Do you attack and accuse every new user of being a troll?
Its interesting how apparently anyone can say the most pathetic or right wing drivel on here and be taken seriously while anyone having a normal view is accused of trolling.
I'm not "randumbmembr" Do you attack and accuse every new user of being a troll?
Its interesting how apparently anyone can say the most pathetic or right wing drivel on here and be taken seriously while anyone having a normal view is accused of trolling.
You're accusing me of being someone I'm not. Does that make you feel better though? Is it easier than actually addressing the points being made? Or is it that you really don't care and are just here to troll anyone who apparently doesn't project a redneck/white trash political/social views?
You're proving my points by doing exactly what I said you are. You really don't care or are not intelligent enough to comprehend the topics you try to post about, and are just here to troll anyone who apparently doesn't project a redneck/white trash political/social views
“African American unemployment has reached its lowest level ever under the Trump administration”
Isn’t this true for all races? I can’t think of anything Trump did specifically to benefit African-Americans so low unemployment has no bearing on whether he is racist.
Sure, but keep in mind that SJG logic states Trump is a racist.
Also, abortions can be made up to the day before a child is born for any reason the way the law is written. SJG leads you to believe that it is only available in cases where the mothers health is in danger and that is simply not true. A lawmaker has gone on record to saying how the bill is written, it allows a mother to terminate the pregnancy in her own accord without doctor approval. The procedure then begins to rip apart the baby’s limbs while still alive. Pure torture by the mirderois left leaning liberal evil pigs! Smh for anyone agreeing with SJG logic. It’s bullshit and they should go to hell!
It sure was! Caught on video the lawmaker asking another lawmaker in Virginia. By the way JimmyMcnutty, show me where it goes against my statement. Youre the fake news maker!
Trump's policies are racist in that they disproportionately affect historically marginalized groups by design. However keep in mind that the system is racist thus anything perpetuating it will be as well.
If you really cared you'd google the plethora of articles written on the topic. But of course you don't. You just think asking for an example makes you look smart.
Because Icey is a bigot, and when you call someone racist without actual proof you become the very thing you project onto others. I think an older white man must have butt fucked Icey forcibly in his youth that has permanently scarred his thinking, hence the war on middle aged white men.
Meat, I was disagreeing with your statement that one could get a late term abortion “for any reason.” That’s just not true. Roe v. Wade has been settled law for nearly 50 years. No new statute can change that and go unchallenged. What the SCOTUS said was that you can have late term abortions (meaning after 21 weeks) only if necessary to protect mother. The VA law doesn’t change that. All it was attempting to change was how you determine whether the abortion was necessary to save the mother. Specifically, whether the decision needed to be made by a panel of 3 docs (current law) or whether it could be made by one doctor (proposed law). Disagree with the proposed law if you want but it is NOT allowing abortions up until the day of birth for any reason. That would be unconstitutional. Good summary in the link below if you’re interested and a link to the actual words in the law.
BTW, if you object to VA passing a permissive law, when LA or one of the Bible Belt states passes their restrictive laws, no yelling “it’s a state issue, let the states decide.” That’s a common argument among strict constructionists which seems to disappear when some blue state passes a gun control or abortion law.
If you just want to debate SJG go ahead. I’m leaving him on ignore and happier for it.
Flagooner and Meat. How can you say Trump being fined for having a no minority policy in his buildings isn't racist? How about his gutting of the environmental justice program that means lack of EPA oversight in economically depressed, mostly minority areas? Of course you don't see any of that as racist since you're racist yourselves and approve of such racism.
Projecting your racist views onto others like Flagooner and me without merit amounts to you being a bigoted racist. Does that old white man ass fucking You in your youth still haunt you during your Catechism classes still bother you icey. Next thing you’ll be abolishing all religious movement in true SJG fashion. Did the priest turn you homo?
Meat, now you're telling me that I'm upset at racists because an old white pedophile abused me as a child??? No wonder you're the most ignored member on here. You have yet to say anything that isn't a trollish emotive outburst.
124 comments
SJG
You guys are so gullible.
No one is arguing for that.
SJG
Extremely interesting novel about such a case pertaining to a minor, and with parents who are Catholic anti-abortion activists, and intersecting with the Evangelical anti-abortion movement. The young woman would have been in dire straights without the procedure, and there was zero chance of anything like health and well being for the fetus.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000QC…
But these are medical cases, requiring medical decisions, to be made by the pregnant woman in consultation with her doctor, not by her parents, not by judges, and not by clergy or politicians.
SJG
TJ Street
https://farm8.static.flickr.com/7403/961…
https://www.flickr.com/photos/navymailma…
https://nypost.com/2019/01/31/the-aborti…
You are 100% incorrect.
I expect you to come back and retract your comment.
But here goes anyway:
Totally ingores the allegations not worth the dignity of a response in that New York Post article
https://www.amny.com/news/politics/repro…
I trust NARAL
https://www.prochoiceamerica.org/2019/01…
Reality of Roe
https://www.prochoiceamerica.org/2019/01…
I doubt that there is anything which responds to the New York Post, just like no one bothers to respond to the National Enquirer.
You guys read non-sense news, and so your perceptions are completely distorted. The existence of this type of news is a serious problem.
SJG
TJ Street
https://farm8.static.flickr.com/7403/961…
https://www.flickr.com/photos/navymailma…
Pulsars, Radio Astronomy
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_q…
I have followed this too. I have given money to Planned Parenthood and I fully support its work and the intents of its founders.
SJG
SJG
https://assembly.state.ny.us/leg/?defaul…
That guy has had a really vad week.
24 weeks, very reasonable. Most people go along with this. And again, it is the pregnant woman who makes this decision in consultation with her doctor, not anyone else. The law cannot intercede.
But this is not the most recent legislation.
SJG
The border wall Trump is asking for is only $6 billion, much less than the cost of a website for Obomacare (over $6 billion) that unconstitutionally mandates the public to buy a product, healthcare, which isn’t even a constitutional right (health).
It is a personal circumstance (health) and for events outside the norm we have social programs to cover, not all events, but most. I feel sorry for the ones who fall through the cracks, but that happens in any large institutional program. SSI covers way more than it should, due to the abuse of the system, but that’s OK by SJG!
https://www.plannedparenthoodaction.org/…
It is Justice Blackmun who came up with the trimester rule, restricting state regulations to the third trimester. And so @founder's like to NY legislation is entirely consistent with that.
https://assembly.state.ny.us/leg/?defaul…
You guys believe in some strange sort of "Liberal Conspiracy". There is no such thing. That is an idea which is promoted by the Far Right.
SJG
Its just how it goes, the woman has a power and has rights which no one else has and no one else can interfere with. If we try to interfere, those rights will get exercised in some other manner.
Here in CA we have Safe Drop Off Stations. Sometimes these are necessary.
SJG
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/052005…
Finds a neutral language, spends much time talking with activists on both sides, and tries to make their work views understandable. Author does not take a position herself.. Truly eye opening.
SJG
I am not seeing that in the newest NY law. So you say it is in the proposed VA law, I am skeptical that this is the same sort of interpretation coming through right wing media. But hell, I have time to waste, lets look at it.
And to answer your question, no I do not believe in that. It is only when the health or life of the mother are at risk. Nature is not always pretty. There are key junctures which are really dicey.
And this right wing media, hydra headed, it is a real problem.
VA proposed law?
SJG
https://naralva.org/laws-policy/
Statement of Intent
https://virginia.prochoiceamericaaffilia…
^^^^^ whole lot of people signed on.
2019 Legislative Session
https://naralva.org/2019-legislative-ses…
What kind of a world do you right wingers live in, and how could you possibly have lived in this world and gotten there. Its like you would have to have been living inside of a hole in the ground?
SJG
I can not find the proposed law, only video of the lawmaker who proposed it.
Much else which seems to be on the table is about cost coverage. Very foolish not to provide all such cost coverage.
SJG
But wtf do I know. I'm just an old white guy. The enemy of a new America.
That NY Post article was toilet paper.
As far as ease of not getting pregnant, things sometimes happen. And this gets into a primal area, sometimes both men and women will make primal choices which may seem strange.
The existence of these right wing news sources and pressure groups is a serious problem.
SJG
Sounds like you flagooner are reading right wing disinformation news.
SJG
Jimi Hendrix Live Full Concert 1969 Amazing Clear Footage
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PbwUH_eJ…
TJ Street
https://farm8.static.flickr.com/7318/961…
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7290/9620…
http://www.adelitasbartijuanamexico.com/…
https://farm8.static.flickr.com/7403/961…
https://www.flickr.com/photos/navymailma…
https://c2.staticflickr.com/4/3752/96322…
https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5449/96322…
SJG
The determination of the health of the motger is left up to the physician. It can be as little as the "mother" claiming that she would be depressed if she were to give birth.
Damn, I'm letting him troll me again. I gotta stop reading his ridiculous posts.
Flagooner, you sell women short, and their doctors too. That kind of "depression" argument might have been used before Roe V Wade, but now that this is all out in the open.
But also consider, women are people, they want to have a future. The depression argument is really what they used before, and up to 2nd trimester. Not beyond that.
Again, right wing EMOTIONAL MANIPULATION disinformation news.
SJG
They should also allow doctors to do abortions with a gun, liberal politicians always seem care if a child is murdered with a gun, unless of course the child is black and killed by a Chicago gang, or any white person killed by an illegal alien. Funny how we never get an outcry then.
Liberals are the party of since though...if a baby is born with x and y chromosomes does that make them a male?? Not anymore, nope, the child can choose what they want to be...because of science! If 2 of the same genders can't procreate yet they choose to mate, does that make them abnormal? Nope, it apparently makes me a bigot for thinking a scene on tv or a movie were 2 dudes kiss is disgusting to watch. (I'll conceded I don't mind watching 2 attractive women kiss, but besides porn I can't recall the last thing I watched were 2 hot women kissed, now days it's all 2 guys or 2 ugly old lesbians)
Yes good old science, it's only allowed to use computer modeling to show the universe came from nothing and not God, and that humanity is doomed if we don't give up plastic straws and all drive cars powered by coal power plants with batteries full of toxic chemicals.
I thought you were involved in local politics 24/7, and I also thought you were building an organization that provides its members free sex 24/7 with stripper grade hotties? Doesn’t all your activities preclude you from posting ad hominem on a strip club website about left wing nut job topics?
SJG
Sickening really, the guys who fuck strippers for money, and then would brand a woman a criminal or humiliate her over an abortion which she decided was necessary.
SJG
It's all really creepy.
SJG
TJ Street
https://farm8.static.flickr.com/7403/961…
https://www.flickr.com/photos/navymailma…
This is all about your left wing agenda, which is all about pandering to the emotionally weak in order to garner votes for lifetime politicians on the left.
You know what is sick, believeing your won tripe as righteous truth, which is in fact unadulterated bullshit. It is the equivalency of heading a stripper web girl say that only a strong and secure man can date a stripper.
And don't assume I would ever encourage anyone to do anything I am not already doing. I want the poor and marginalized to rise up and start to fight back, and make you Meat72 into the marginalized and penalized.
SJG
Why would you want to see me marginalized, SJG? Are you liking to put me down in order to lift yourself up? That’s straight out of the progressive mantra, right SJG?
Our society, with the middle-class family, with drugs and alcohol, with Born Again Christianity, and with the Mental Health System, creates its own underclass.
SJG
Baby's Lookin' Hot
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s_ufNFTA…
Robin Trower - Full Concert - Rockpalast Crossroads, Bonn - 2005 ( I listen to this, and sorry to say, I can't understand how anyone could ever settle for acoustic guitar music. And then of course, I think solid body is the best of the best )
Meat, does it make you feel good and moral to say you oppose abortion while you sneak out and fuck yourself a hooker????
Only Bill Maher, SJG’s idol, on live tv would admit to fucking hookers. He even did so when Jim Gaffigan was his guest. Smh...
PaulDrake, by your logic you and every other right wing nutjob here must be the same person.
Its really delusional of you to assume that most people agree with the type of misogyny, racism, classism, xenophobia etc that gets promoted by a vocal minority on here.
Tell us about the good old days when women gays and minorities knew their place... How about the great times before the New Deal.... Wouldn't it be great if you could wear that hood out in public again as a sign of white pride???
Funny thing is you know damn well you'd never talk to strangers like this IRL. You only do it on here because of your perceived illusion of semi anonymity
For a rabid righteous woman rights activist, you sure pretend to have human rights as your bully pulpet! Except in this case your hypocrisy precludes you from being humane. You prefer to find murder in its legal form so you can impregnate all the strippers as your monkey ass can spew. When someone throws aluminum foil on the ground, do you get down and bat it all over the place like a gorilla
The next thing he will do is create another lame ass topic and be the only one commenting, the same way that SJG does. It’s the extreme nut jobs in our world like Icey that love to have any platform to spew fake news about people places and things to further their socialistic agenda and divide the working class into a two tier society.
How do you believe your Keynesian economic policies will bail your lazy ass welfare state out of debt in 10-20 years, Icey? Simply by utilizing basic income so we can print more money to create an illusion of wealth amongst your poor voters?
Second question, what does planned parenthood provide that is not covered by Obamacare..... now that I am paying for everyone's healthcare I dont think we should double up by paying planned parenthood and I also believe it's my money and my choice.
__________
Yeah, except sometimes that's not possible. For example in 2008 where we were forced to give AIG $85 billion dollars because of the systemic risk of the credit-default swaps that they couldn't cover. And, yes, it was absolutely impossible to let them fail.
I love how hypocritical you all are.... You justify corporate bailouts ie the ultimate welfare the ultimate gov involvement in the economy, while attempting to justify fucking over the poor, women and minorities lmfao
so much for your supposed values.
now go get a hooker so you can go to confession on Sunday
The idea that nature is all hearts and flowers is just fiction. Birth is risky. What ensues can be really disturbing. They only do the types of abortions you are talking about when the alternative is worse. Highest ratio of new born weight to mother weight. The results can be ugly.
The idea that this is being used as "contraception", is just denigrating women who are pro-sex. Such women are responsible. They don't need you second guessing them.
@Meat72 and PaulDrake, if you actually were reading people's posts, you would know that I, Icey, and Countryman are all different people.
@RandomMember, corporate welfare is just the result of the economic and influence power that such corporations have. It is not necessary for the well being of our society. On the otherhand, federal involvement in the economy is absolutely necessary if we want to maintain a middle income range. Historically other societies always devolve into the very rich and the very poor. Before the Civil War, this middle-class subsidy was obtained by access to free and low cost land. After the Civil War this was no longer available. So we had the Guided Age and the Reactionary Politics of hte 1880's, the rise of Social Darwinism to justify the wealth divide, and then finally the Granger Movement wanting for the first time to limit the power of big business. Then to soak up excess the excess productive capability which Capitalism always brings, the first World War, people and materials being poured into battles which went on for a long as 10 months.
Then finally with the New Deal we had the application of Keynesianism, using progressive taxation and spending to keep the middle in tact. This worked for a very long time. With some changes, it would still work, but it was rejected when Reagan was elected.
Without Keynesianism, the middle sector of the economic hierarchy would disappear, and democracy could not withstand that.
SJG
Attack of the Giant Leeches 1959
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_JnBEsr…
Happy Go Lucky Local -- Duke Ellington
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jNnplwRb…
Jimmy Forrest : Night Train ( 1952 )
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DxqQxJt_…
Burlesque Music
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cG-9WQ0P…
Venus - Shocking Blue
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qWb8_DH8…
Jefferson Airplane 5-7-1970 Fillmore East Complete Show
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xrVqhs4I…
Jefferson Airplane at Wally Heider Studios
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mY1k9AWV…
Sink the Bismark - 1960 movie ( very good, seen many times )
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1VKVeIUL…
Sink The Bismarck - 1996 History Channel Documentary
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HC3kDrlt…
SJG
Why the hypocrisy? Planned parenthood should be banned.
Women do not need your permission to have private control over their bodies, or to have that be publicly paid for.
I am a past time financial supporter of Planned Parenthood and Naral. Still a strong philosophical and political supporter.
We all have to make concessions to live in this society. Taxation and public funding tor lots of stuff is one of them.
SJG
Because of Obamacare private sector companies are unable to provide plans that don't include coverage for abortion, or do you not remember the lawsuit that the catholic church filed to get an exemption.
Now if you guys cared as much about born children and women.... or do you just see them as a source for prostitution? Keep em destitute and desperate...
assembly.state.ny.us”
How is this thread going on? All the NY law says is that the state will follow Roe v. Wade which allowed late term abortions up to viability (about 24 weeks), and later, only if necessary to protect mother’s life or health, or if some consequence regarding the fetus was discovered that couldn’t have been discovered prior. This isn’t much of a change IMO.
I’ve also had SJG on ignore for years and am not reading his posts, which looks like more than 1/3 of the posts and I’m sure full of BS.
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archiv…
“Late term” refers to the time up to viability. Viability is usually up to 24 weeks, but can be longer if something happens in utero so that the fetus is no longer viable. To choose a hopefully non-controversial example, for instance if he fetus is injured in a car accident in the 30th week.
The other way to stretch the limits beyond the 24th week is if the mother is in danger. Again, I’ll use my car accident example. I would value mother’s life over fetus when writing the law. Nothing would prevent a mother from choosing her unborn baby’s life over her own if that was an option.
The article in the Atlantic was trying to say it was “easy” to get an 8 month abortion by just getting a doctor to say mother’s life was in danger when it wasn't really in danger. That risk has always been the case and that’s malpractice and illegal. Maybe it’s an enforcement issue but this is fake news. Neither NY nor VA can pass laws that conflict with federal law or the constitution, which has been interpreted by Roe and affirmed many times.
Late term abortions are very rare, and only done when there is medical necessity. But if it went to delivery, the tools brought into play would be exactly those used for the most extreme case of late term abortions.
If we have Universal Health Care, then reproductive care and abortion will have to be part of it. People who offer private care cannot engage in religious discrimination. So abortion and contraception have to be in it.
A comprehensive minimum care level across the board, housing, food, medical, clothing, transportation, should be the guaranteed benefits of advanced industrialization.
And with the Cold War over, we should not be making up more bull shit, like border walls and wars on drugs or terrorism, we should be making sure everyone's basic needs are taken care of with Universal Basic Income ( UBI ), and done in conjunction with the public offering of services, so that UBI works as intended, rather than just fattening slum lords.
The denigration of the poor started with Capitalism. That was the only way to drive peasants off of land and to make them work for starvation wages in factories. And still to this day, denigration of the poor is what the political Right depends upon. That takes a huge toll on people and families.
UBI is not needs tested, it become a basic right. Everyone gets it, need it or not.
As it stands today we have some very limited sorts of welfare, but being needs tested what that does most is regulate and pillory the poor.
Then on top of that, with the Recovery Movement ( often government funded or supported ), with the Evangelical Christian Movement and its Faith Based Charities, and then with the Mental Health System, the poor get cut to ribbons, and so they become completely docile, rather than the political force and the armed revolutionary force which are so desperately needed.
SJG
Sexy Girls World Map ( consider Ecuador and Argentina )
https://static.boredpanda.com/blog/wp-co…
Argentina
https://www.argentinaxp.com/wp-content/u…
Year of the Pig
http://media.gettyimages.com/vectors/hap…
There is absolutely no reason in cases where the mother chooses to abort that infantcide needs to happen. They can induce labor, or even perform a C section, but in your mind an unborn baby has no feelings and doesnt even have any rights! So it’s fine for you to say they can crucify an 8 month term baby with horrible pain limb by limb, all for the sake for women’s rights? That’s some fucked up logic, and do you know you’re going to hell for allowing those things to happen, SJG? You’re an evil person for believing party lines on such an inhumane topic.
I also take it your definition of when life begins in the womb are based on Judeo-Christian beliefs. Which is very interesting for someone so enraptured by prostitutes and strip clubs.
I also take it your definition of when life begins in the womb are based on Judeo-Christian beliefs. Which is very interesting for someone so enraptured by prostitutes and strip clubs.
Glad your obsessed with my posts. You should be for I provide value, and you provide fodder for faggits!
Now, let’s get back to SJG logic, as messed up as it is, and see how fucked up left wing nut jobs can be.
Are you an MD or a constitutional lawyer? A gender studies professor? A social worker? A political scientist? A priest/rabbi/imam? You claim to have a lot of self proclaimed authority yet espouse nothing but a typical uneducated visceral argument for everything. In other words, another rabid redneck/white trash type with a keyboard.
Its interesting how apparently anyone can say the most pathetic or right wing drivel on here and be taken seriously while anyone having a normal view is accused of trolling.
Its interesting how apparently anyone can say the most pathetic or right wing drivel on here and be taken seriously while anyone having a normal view is accused of trolling.
Isn’t this true for all races? I can’t think of anything Trump did specifically to benefit African-Americans so low unemployment has no bearing on whether he is racist.
Also, abortions can be made up to the day before a child is born for any reason the way the law is written. SJG leads you to believe that it is only available in cases where the mothers health is in danger and that is simply not true. A lawmaker has gone on record to saying how the bill is written, it allows a mother to terminate the pregnancy in her own accord without doctor approval. The procedure then begins to rip apart the baby’s limbs while still alive. Pure torture by the mirderois left leaning liberal evil pigs! Smh for anyone agreeing with SJG logic. It’s bullshit and they should go to hell!
Fake news. Show me that law. Not how someone is characterizing it. Show me the law. It does not exist.
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018…
2. I didn't read them all, but none that I did read were racist.
BTW, if you object to VA passing a permissive law, when LA or one of the Bible Belt states passes their restrictive laws, no yelling “it’s a state issue, let the states decide.” That’s a common argument among strict constructionists which seems to disappear when some blue state passes a gun control or abortion law.
If you just want to debate SJG go ahead. I’m leaving him on ignore and happier for it.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.vox.com…