Dancers want state to regulate clubs. Do you want more regulations?

avatar for shadowcat
shadowcat
Atlanta suburb
SEATTLE - State lawmakers are taking another look at strip clubs after dancers complained that sexual harassment and many safety issues aren't being addressed.


The quest for new protections come as dancers grow frustrated over long-standing issues about job expectations and the work environment. The dancers said if they complain to their bosses they run the risk of getting fired, so they are asking members of the legislature for a new way to regulate the adult entertainment industry in Washington.

“I've been told by one manager that I don't do enough during a dance for the prices that we charge,” said Aubrey Watkins.

Another concern brought up by these workers are the security guards, who they said do little to screen for problem customers. Some men known to harass the women are allowed back into the clubs where they caused the trouble.

“There's no list, there's no blacklist,” said Aayliyah Topps, a dancer. “Managers aren't making a phone call, like ‘Look out for this guy that's coming over there,’ there's nothing like that."

There are economic issues as well. Dancers said they can actually lose money while working because many clubs require a pay-out each night, which pressures some women to do what they can to make up the difference.

“Because you feel like you have to pay that at the end of the night or it's going to be coming out of pocket for yourself," Topps said.

On Monday, dancers went before the House Labor and Workforce Standards Committee to ask for more regulation and worker training.

“We're all workers,” Watkins said. “We deserve the same rights as others."

Strip club operators did not return our calls but did tell lawmakers during the committee work session they provide a safe work environment.

“Our venues have staff, safety protocols and advanced camera monitoring equipment,” said Winter Finke of Showgirls. “We are subject to regular unannounced enforcement audits, we work closely with law enforcement in each of the communities and we always have good communications and relationships with all of them."

Rep. Tina Orwall, D-Des Moines, said she may introduce a bill in the upcoming legislative session to address many of the concerns raised by these dancers. Specifically, Orwall wants to address training standards, introduce unannounced site visits by inspectors and change how identification checks are done on customers trying to get in.

49 comments

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avatar for jackslash
jackslash
6 years ago
Strip club regulations will never help dancers or customers.
avatar for Uprightcitizen
Uprightcitizen
6 years ago
If they don't like it now just wait until the government steps in to "help".
avatar for Subraman
Subraman
6 years ago
Strippers are stuck between a rock and a hard place. On the one hand, the work in clubs run by the bottom-of-the-barrel management and staff types, and are subject to conditions that people in less marginalized jobs aren't. On the other hand, and this is the part they have trouble learning, every time the ask the government to step in they get fucked worse, in some way or other.
avatar for nicespice
nicespice
6 years ago
I am definitely not in favor of that. Maybe some lawsuits if clubs are trying to breach independent contractor status, but involving the government is asking for it to go from bad to worse.

The dancer interviewed probably thinks if the government steps in then they can be a force against the manager telling her to do more mileage.

In my area, whether a club is an extras one or not seems to be more determined by us dancers rather than any manager or LE. Cause it’s not like the managers/bouncers here do anything to patrol dances.

I think PSD is based out of Seattle though. Maybe she can give better insight about it?
avatar for PinkSugarDoll
PinkSugarDoll
6 years ago
I work in Seattle and this is horse shit.

The ONLY problem here is that we are being charged $180 a night to work. I am fucking blown away that this is not the main issue of this article.
avatar for chessmaster
chessmaster
6 years ago
They wanna make money but dont wanna give any mileage. Not surprising.
avatar for PinkSugarDoll
PinkSugarDoll
6 years ago
I don’t think that’s what they are complaining about, a lot of the clubs here are high mileage. I think they are complaining about people who have made them feel unsafe being allowed to return to the club.
avatar for PinkSugarDoll
PinkSugarDoll
6 years ago
I just called the Rep’s office and made an appointment to meet with her.
avatar for PinkSugarDoll
PinkSugarDoll
6 years ago
Shadowcat, where is the article from??
avatar for Subraman
Subraman
6 years ago
-->"I am definitely not in favor of that. Maybe some lawsuits if clubs are trying to breach independent contractor status, but involving the government is asking for it to go from bad to worse. "

Just happened here. As predicted, the dancers seem to be getting fucked; and unfortunately for we customers, a bunch are leaving the clubs because of it. It's not clear to me if it's state-wide, or just in the city; if just in the city, I think the hotties will just head somewhere else
avatar for Warrior15
Warrior15
6 years ago
Be careful what you wish for. Once the regulators start putting their nose in that business, they won't be able to stop.
avatar for PinkSugarDoll
PinkSugarDoll
6 years ago
Yeah it’s already happening.
avatar for Icey
Icey
6 years ago
Better regulations and working conditions, even the option to unionize would definitely help strippers
avatar for JamesSD
JamesSD
6 years ago
Most employers do the bare minimum for their employees as required by law. It is appropriate for the law to make rules for a level playing field for safety.
avatar for PinkSugarDoll
PinkSugarDoll
6 years ago
Ty Shadowcat

Here is the prob guys, you think it would help but it hurts us because after the clubs do what they are ordered to do by the court, there is no follow up and they backlash and penalize us to replace what it costs for them to give us benefits.

There is one club I know of in the whole US that charges a higher house fee than Seattle and the girls I know who work there do not care because they are bankrolling so hard. This club was ordered by a state judge to do xyz because ex strippers took the club to court, trying to get a hand out. This is how it is now impacting the dancers:

They will make an hourly wage, about $150 for an 8 hour shift. Their dance money is collected from the patrons and not paid to them. This is how their money is treated for a work day:

They will get a paycheck, it will have the $150 of their hourly wages deducted from it so the club is not paying them at all, they are paying the club to pay them.

If they make $400 or less, they keep 40% of the money they earn, less the $150. If they make $401 or more they keep 60% of the money they earn, less the $150. So if I made $600 today, I would leave with $250.

And you may say to yourself, that’s not too bad. But the risks and expenses of the job are much higher than most, I have two other jobs and I think I am of pretty reasonably sound mind to form that opinion. This way of remedying these problems is not right and that’s what I want to communicate to this woman, the consequences it brings about.
avatar for Subraman
Subraman
6 years ago
^^^ Exactly. That's how it's working out here, almost to the letter, as explained to me by a stripper recently. They're taking home less money, not more, now that they're employees. I believe the club can also do things like schedule them and hold them to regulations that were in a bit of a gray area before
avatar for PinkSugarDoll
PinkSugarDoll
6 years ago
^^^ exactly.
avatar for twentyfive
twentyfive
6 years ago
What many don’t realize is government regulation is really a form of welfare to lawyers, they are making a fortune from these type of lawsuits and the prevailing party’s actually foot the bill.
avatar for PinkSugarDoll
PinkSugarDoll
6 years ago
I think this is different because they have the Rep involved and no mention of a lawsuit but yes, exactly.
avatar for twentyfive
twentyfive
6 years ago
^It’s never different unfortunately, as soon as someone finds a loophole the bloodsuckers will collect their plasma.
avatar for chessmaster
chessmaster
6 years ago
Yeah the lawyers and the dancers(some who just want more than minimum wage for doing essentially nothing and the rest incapable of making money anymore) are the only winners. Its the dancers making money and everyone else that have to pay for it.
avatar for san_jose_guy
san_jose_guy
6 years ago
No, more regulations is no good. I do not think most dancers would want that. Reminds me about the Leslie Love Michigan Ordinance, has that finally died?

SJG
avatar for Player11
Player11
6 years ago
Hell no / no regulation.
avatar for Westcoastclubber
Westcoastclubber
6 years ago
These lawsuits seem to often be filed by ex/retired dancers
avatar for JamesSD
JamesSD
6 years ago
I'm glad California has sane laws. Dancers can opt to be employees or contractors. They all choose contractor.

The real problem here is corporate greed. The DejaVu clubs here are all garbage.
avatar for PinkSugarDoll
PinkSugarDoll
6 years ago
The club I am talking about that’s treating its dancers like this is in California.
avatar for 501traveler
501traveler
6 years ago
I know some of the Deja Vu clubs in CA just changed to making the dancers employees and not contractors. Not sure if its all of the CA Deja Vu clubs yet. Dancers are not happy because most are making less money now and have more rules to follow. Some were thinking it would be better getting a steady paycheck, now they're realizing they're going home with less money. Some of the favorites are leaving. Be careful what you wish for. Clubs charging $180 payout/ house fee per night is ridiculous.
avatar for PinkSugarDoll
PinkSugarDoll
6 years ago
I am very aware of the situation and it is something I intend to share with this representative. It’s not a success story for the club or for the dancers.
avatar for Club_Goer_Seattle
Club_Goer_Seattle
6 years ago
I live in Seattle and I'm a local club-goer. So, this thread caught my attention. I was made aware of the KOMO-TV story by a local TUSCL member before it was posted on TUSCL.

The article and the two dancers' comments are typical of this story. Not much new here, even in Seattle.

It surprises me that the two dancers would give their full names and be willing to be shown on camera. Usually, dancers will only give a first name in interviews like this. I wonder if they'll still be employed by their current club after this story. I'm pretty sure that both dancers mentioned work at Little Darling in Seattle. Although the reporter, Joel Moreno, is standing in front of Deja Vu Seattle, throughout the video, the front of Little Darlings is shown briefly at 0:43.

PM me if you'd like to know more about the dancers interviewed. I have some knowledge of them.

Seattle hasn't had a big strip club story since the 2008 "Big Raid" of four strip clubs, simultaneously, which lead to all four being closed two years later. As new clubs opened since then, most have made the news, but just over the public dislike for strip clubs in their neighborhoods. That's typical in Seattle. Maybe it's time for another raid.


@PinkSugar: I hope you will post a summary of your visit with Tina Orwall.
avatar for Subraman
Subraman
6 years ago
->"I know some of the Deja Vu clubs in CA just changed to making the dancers employees and not contractors. Not sure if its all of the CA Deja Vu clubs yet. Dancers are not happy because most are making less money now and have more rules to follow. Some were thinking it would be better getting a steady paycheck, now they're realizing they're going home with less money. Some of the favorites are leaving"

Exactly the situation I was referencing. Yes, lots of girls are leaving due to lower paychecks (or perhaps just being annoyed)
avatar for PinkSugarDoll
PinkSugarDoll
6 years ago
“Pm me if you’d like to know about the dancers interviewed”

THE FUCK??????

You guys wonder why we don’t want to give you our real name or do xyz with you (“No one will know!”) or go to a hotel or not collect our money when we’ve done a certain number of dances.

Cool, this is why.


avatar for txtittyspice
txtittyspice
6 years ago
PSD speaks truth.
avatar for twentyfive
twentyfive
6 years ago
@ Club _Goer you need to be more circumspect, my reading of your post strikes me as dangerous and disingenuous at best, threatening is what it really sounds like, these girls are not the enemy despite how they paint the picture, in Seattle or anyplace else.
avatar for PinkSugarDoll
PinkSugarDoll
6 years ago
Club Goer, a fun fact about IP addresses is that I can recognize another account that messaged me this morning belongs to you.

You are a creep. Take care.
avatar for Club_Goer_Seattle
Club_Goer_Seattle
6 years ago
PSD,

I'm sorry if I offended you, and anyone else. However, you are quite wrong, I haven't messaged you in years. I certainly haven't messaged anyone this morning. I only have this one TUSCL account, not a second as you alleged. I have no need to hide behind multiple accounts.

My participation on TUSCL in recent years is much more limited than in my earlier years. Now, generally I only read the reviews of the Washington state clubs, and occasionally message with those that posted a review.

You used to message me when you'd be working at a local club. I rarely responded.

Also, I'm highly suspect when someone indicates that they can recognize an IP address and that two or more posts came from that address. It's a common false attack made on line.

Furthermore, my intent to provide information on the dancers interviewed was just to give their stage names, clubs, and hours. Since they were shown on camera, some might be interested to go see them. That's nothing more than common information exchanged on strip club websites. I recognized one of them, and have heard a little about the other.

I hope your meeting with Tina Orwall is productive.
avatar for PinkSugarDoll
PinkSugarDoll
6 years ago
I used to message you and you rarely responded—“

I looked in my messages. Yes, I messaged you because YOU messaged ME. How interesting that three years later that is fresh in your mind. How interesting that once I told you my name, you didn’t respond to my two other messages.

Look how desperate I am, I’m out here replying to messages TWICE to someone who “rarely responds.”

I do not buy your story about the Seattle dancers, if either one was Megan Fox hot, maybe that would be something to provoke an “I HAVE to get a dance from these women!” response, but neither of them are.

Take care.
avatar for rickdugan
rickdugan
6 years ago
Sorry Club_Goer, but that did come across as rather creepy. A little discretion goes a long way dude.
avatar for TFP
TFP
6 years ago
Crazy, I had no idea that Deja Vu clubs in CA were changing policies like that. Perhaps that's why my CF, who had been working at the same place for over 5 years all of a sudden up and left. I thought that Deja Vu clubs already took enough earnings from the girls. With these policies it's even worse??? Since they (Deja Vu) owns almost every club in SF then things are REALLY gonna be shitty here if these new regulations catch on at every club.
avatar for san_jose_guy
san_jose_guy
6 years ago
The less regulations the better. Things always go best when the women can do it the way they want.

And of course this means more front room makeout sessions, and even some front room DATYing too.

SJG
avatar for Uprightcitizen
Uprightcitizen
6 years ago
Club Goer are you that dull to realize what you are posting here? Just because they were naive enough to bring this to the state and do TV spot doesn't mean you have to completely out these girls. The way you post offering up information makes it sound like you want them exposed and fired.
avatar for txtittyfag
txtittyfag
6 years ago
What motivates a lyin thievin whore stripper to post under a fake troll shit truck driver a cowboy n a dozen other male aliases?
I reckon most of the comments above peg how her real life is n also thars them lice in her puss messin with her self esteem.
avatar for 501traveler
501traveler
6 years ago
Looks like all clubs in CA will have make their dancers actual employees by Jan 1. There are postings on IG that due to a recent court ruling on independent contactors Spearmint Rhino and other clubs are terminating the existing contracts with the dancers this month and making them all employees.
avatar for san_jose_guy
san_jose_guy
6 years ago
Can you provide links to support this? What is IG?

At least San Jose has an underground, and at least there are some AMPs

SJG
avatar for 501traveler
501traveler
6 years ago
SJG - IG is instagram. Its been posted on a few pages I follow.

I saw a instagram page for a place called Mermaids. Is that one of your underground clubs you keep talking about? How about checking it out and reviewing it for us?
avatar for san_jose_guy
san_jose_guy
6 years ago
^^^^^^ Never heard of Mermaids, except in Tijuana. And underground clubs exist because they are not listed anywhere.

Friend told me that eliminating contractor status in California is the law.

I sent back:

"
Seems like that could not really be the law. Contractor status is not illegal, it is just restricted to those cases where it actually applies. And then, strip clubs are not illegal. Cannot make laws which apply to them only.
"

We need to invent some new kinds of UHM venues. Try to combine the best of Strip Clubs and AMPs, but make them highly resistant to LE. Also make them disposable.

SJG
avatar for Icey
Icey
6 years ago
God forbid the gov enforce some labor protections for strippers. Coz private business is always right and has everyone's best interest at heart *cough* *cough*
avatar for san_jose_guy
san_jose_guy
6 years ago
avatar for san_jose_guy
san_jose_guy
6 years ago
I think the best would be not to classify the women as employees or independent contractors. Just say that they are women customers at a social club, kind of like a Swingers Club.

So they have to pay an admission fee, and the house charges money for the booths and back rooms, plus refreshments and the men's admission fees.

I believe that that would be hard for LE to do much about, and the women would get more aggressive and extreme. You would get wilder sorts of women. Very little house responsibility for what they do. Not for the timid. Women can come and go as they please, no schedules.

And never call it a strip club or adult entertainment, or any kind of retail. Members only, though membership just requires $5 and an ID scan. Could by BYOB, but still safer and less problems if it is no alcohol.

SJG

Graham Bond - Love Is The Law - full album + bonus tracks
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wyg8x36f…

The Dynamex Decision: The California Supreme Court Restricts Use of Independent Contractors
https://www.laboremploymentlawblog.com/2…

TJ Street
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7290/9620…
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