I have a buddy who's living the dream -- dating an actually hot, clean, sane, educated stripper from one of the higher end clubs in his area. It is quite a thing to see. Huge ego boost. It seems so far to be a very balanced, two-way relationship. It has literally changed his life. Nothing lasts for ever and these things rarely end well. I am out of my element on advice for him other than that obvious. Anyone with direct experience in this?
Real dates. Overnight, weekends, dinner, weekend trips. Plus come down to the club for free VIP treatment. It's a legit relationship. Not OTC. So far it is mutually exclusive (neither is seeing anyone else) but that is something worth thinking about on his part, and this is not a condition of the relationship. He's getting interested from other dancers -- and he gets direction from her on who to avoid under the pretenses of she wants him to stay clean. In his mind, he'd rather have a few streams of activity so he doesn't not become emotionally dependent on one inherently volatile situation (all that is my words not his, but that is the gist from what I have observed.)
That already includes two other dancers being in touch on totally civilian, not SC matters. He is experiencing something I have experienced as well but never capitalized on anywhere close to how has he -- these younger (early/mid 20s) strippers when they have their shit together do not want to deal with their own peer group and would rather spend their down time with someone older (mid 40s in his and my case) who also has their shit together, and obviously someone who has $$. But he is not getting hit up for the sugar daddy thing. Other than paying for dinner, drinks, and basic travel (a night at a B&B etc) he is not paying for anything out of the norm of any other casual dating. Since he's no longer paying for VIP at the club, he's probably about breakeven overall. Plus so far it seems like a pretty decent relationship. Some crazy stories for sure, but mostly mundane girlfriend stuff (just with a ridiculously hot girl who under other circumstances we are both abundantly clear would be entirely out of his league)
So what are you asking exacly? Advice on what he should or shouldnt do? I guess he should enjoy the experience. If he is serious he should think about not being jealous or possessive when he thinks of all those guys pawing her (or more).
This jerk is taking outrageous advantage of these girls! He should immediately start paying them for their time and pussies. And give them all the back pay they deserve as well!
Challenges will come...keep us posted on how it fares. I've gotten involved and friended IRL by all the friends...its quite interesting...then when/if you break up with the one, the others will by vying to take her place if they consider you an asset...(Emotionally kind, caring, supportive, financially stable etc.) Thing is now later in life I'm married, so this is not available to me without getting a divorce lol...The wife won't tolerate a gf on the side...
It's not at all bullshit, twentyfive. Everything I wrote is true, authentic, accurate. If I was going to lie I would make it more interesting and presumably about myself.
Upright, yeah looking for any horror or success stories from firsthand experience. Obviously, everyone's circumstances are different. I am usually a go-to guy for advice on these things, but my otherwise mild-mannered bro has completely trumped me on this. My advice is little more than commonsense, which he already has. Right now he has a realistic view of it. At this moment, it is perfect and just a lot of fun. I do see that inevitably changing: jealously; one of them one wanting to bail before the other does; there must be a hundred reasons why this doesn't work as a normal relationship. So I am curious to hear from anyone who has lived through it himself. Or if there are strippers on here who want to share their perspective, that would be huge and greatly appreciated. Otherwise, I get that this isn't so exciting a topic, other than the inevitability of this blowing up at some point.
Thanks Max. That is all true. And yeah I am in the same boat -- it's 'safely' arm's length for me as I am married, but I am starting to get a little friendly with a few for them. Nothing will come of it unless I want to risk it all -- as exciting as it is watch this vicariously, I am not interested in blowing my marriage. This is not a club where he and I are regulars, per se. He is now in a sense but I have only been to that club once since this came about and don't plan to go much more any time soon. But it is curious to see it from this perspective, and to hear the girls talk about what the world is like on their end. I love to have that insight at other clubs. I've been going to clubs for 20 years so I would think I have a pretty realistic sense of things. I have always thought I was realistic that it's a fucking business, not a pickup scene, so if they're being nice, telling you how handsome you are, it's a hustle (duh!) But what surprised me the most is that sometimes when they're being nice, it's because they're actually nice. They not all necessarily jade and don't hate their job nor are they all strung out -- but obviously still that is true for a lot of them. I am just not as good judge of figuring that out as I thought I was.
In my opinion, the only way this type of thing can work is if he dials back his ego to 1 or 2 and keeps the mental high fives he's giving himself at 200 frames per second on the DL. Likewise, when she doesn't show up where and when you expect her, go look for her even if it's way up on a mountain.
I think that for the most part, strippers are strippers because they crave an excessive amount of validation. The better man you are, the more meaningful any sign of validation from you will be. Maybe she will surprise you with unexpected kindness when she senses she can help, even.
You're not going to get a lot of feedback from "guys who have also experienced this", because you're describing a rainbow unicorn event. That's also why lot of people here think you're full of shit (also a possibility).
If this is true, then the obvious advice is obvious: Enjoy it while you can, but prepare for it to fall apart spectacularly.
"Geez, what’s with all the hate? She accepted a gift. Unless the PL attached strings to it before giving it to her, and she cut those strings, I don’t see a problem. “Thanks dude!” is perfectly acceptable and appropriate."
I've commented on here before I met a girl before she was a stripper. The relationship had enough of a strain that we broke off for about five months ( this is a couple of years ago) and during that time some of her friends convinced her to become a stripper since she was broke.
I was surprised when she called me after a five month separation-- I had heard from her once ( text) during the break and it wasn't good.
She spent the better part of two days convincing me that 1) she knew the problems were hers 2) although she was a "dancer" that nothing was going on besides dancing period.
There were good times, great times, but the bad times were very bad. It ended five months ago, this time for good.
If you are on the up and up the big red flag I see in your comments is that they are dating and he is going to the club she works in--on that alone I almost call BS....but.......if you are straight I will tell you it is going to lead to a problem and it is going to be ugly when it happens. I never, repeat never, went into the club she worked. I still don't go there although she is long gone and somewhere on the West Coast ( probably dancing) And just to be clear it had more to do with messing with her head than my becoming jealous. It also had to do with what you are describing is going on with him now--- other dancers taking a run at me--according to her it wasn't an if but a when if I showed up at the club.
What broke us up is simple. She couldn't be honest with me and as the little lies piled up I trusted her less and less. Eventually she did something that I couldn't tolerate and I ended it. Now to be fair we had our problems before she started dancing but the dancing only made those problems worse and there was always some level of drama with her.
In it's most-basic form if one has to ask about dating a stripper then one is not ready to date a stripper - this is more of a heads-up/warning not to say to not do it at all b/c there always has to be a first time and at least you have enough sense to ask
> What broke us up is simple. She couldn't be honest with me and as the little lies piled up I trusted her less and less. Eventually she did something that I couldn't tolerate and I ended it.
This happened to me one time, too. I wish I had read the Little Prince before I met her
“It is the time you have wasted for your rose that makes your rose so important.”
"To me, you are still nothing more than a little boy who is just like a hundred thousand other little boys. And I have no need of you. And you, on your part, have no need of me. To you I am nothing more than a fox like a hundred thousand other foxes. But if you tame me, then we shall need each other. To me, you will be unique in all the world. To you, I shall be unique in all the world....”
It sounds like a friend with benefits kind of relationship, if both are having fun and keep it as such it will last as long as they want, as soon as one wants more or less the relationship will change.
My advice to him, enjoy the relationship as much as you can an keep it the same as long as you can, it won't last for ever.
Her needs and wants will change, and if he is not be able to adjust, will end.
More than anything don't develop "feelings" for her other than friends with benefits, unless he wants his marriage to end.
Good luck to you and your friend.
Please keep us informed about the relationship.
ppwh--Antoine de Saint-Exupéry is probably lost on most of this generation. I happen to be a bit older so I recognize the author/pilot's works.
Although not as civilized I'll point you in the direction of Cat Stevens, now known as Yusuf Islam.......and later redone by Rod Stewart and Sheryl Crow........The first cut is the deepest.
Since you are a friend, you might cause your friend to become annoyed if you try to caution him about the dangers of a bad stripper breakup.
The best thing to do is to speak up if he gets into a bad situation - so he doesn’t get into trouble. He might refuse to listen anyway, but that’s his choice.
Don’t get too close to the dancer. The last thing you want is to lose your friend due to any jealousy over his stripper girlfriend.
I think you said it best - as you are staying clear of the blast zone. Stay far away - as the fallout can clear a very wide area.
Strippers are strippers b/c of $$$ (at least his is the case 99% of the time) - and their interactions with custies are usually motivated by $$$.
If she didn't meet him at the club then a "bit-better" chance it's not just b/c of $$$ but strippers hooking up with custies often/usually comes down to $$$ whether she asks directly or "indirectly" (i.e. "emergencie$" start popping up that she asks the guy for help for or at least she brings up her woe$) - this is often the M.O.
Can a dancer and custy have a "legit" relationship, I suppose, i.e. they have to date someone, but given the age difference it's usually about $$$ and her not having the hots for him - but I assume in some instances a dancer might like dating an older guy b/c he can provide her a certain lifestyle (dinners in nice restaurants, trips, staying in nice hotels, etc).
Strippers in their early/mid twenties want to spend their down time with guys in their mid/late 40s... For free... no financial benefits... bcause guys in their mid to late thrities are sooooo immature.
Girls in their early/mid twenties like to party. Strippers like to party. Stippers in their early/mid twenties are definitely going to party hard (their is no down time)
My advice is to tell you're friend to watch his stuff. Never get comfortable. Ya daddy issues exists, but that means dating a few abusive assholes, rampant sex and drugs, then when she's about 29, trying to get off the cock carousel and finding a sucker to marry them. Not going to happen in the early twenties to mid twenties.
There is some good advice here -- including don't go to the club.
I did with him once, and I know he has more than once. She texts him and invites him to come in to see her, but he sees her more outside of the club (especially now, and this is something that going on right about 90 days.) He or I or anyone we know, would almost certainly have never met her if not at the club. Our professional and social paths would not cross, and there is not an insignificant amount geography between where we each live, where the club is located, where she lives (even further) or where her family is (much further)
But based on my one experience, I would say that should not be repeated. This was early into the relationship -- they'd already scene each other outside the club a few times (with overnights) and he had already been back to the club a couple of times since they first met (which was at the club). The way they met was this -- lapdance and then chatting, and more chatting for a long time, and they swapped numbers. She responded first (via txt naturally) and after a lot of texting back and forth they met outside the club.
But here's why I would agree with you 100% that he should *NOT* go into the club. She gave him obvious special treatment and had another dancer do the same. To the point he has a two-on-one LD with everyone's jaw dropping in the club. He looks like a typical "yuppie" (yeah no one says that anymore) not any kind of playa or Russian oligarch. I had special treatment too but nothing like that, and I paid (I don't know to be honest and haven't asked, I know he hasn't paid for a lot but not sure what he paid for that night considering another dancer was involved.)
That was an awesome fantasy scenario for a couple of middle-aged dudes with a lot less swagger than would usually command that. And while I would love to have that every Friday night, I think I should consider it once and done as it was getting a bit weird with girls being catty and I just felt like a hammer would drop.
Plus, she didn't work that night while we were there. Except for the two-on-one there was nothing unusual about our presence. It would be just like a couple of regular seeing their ATF. And as I right this, I am sure he at least paid the friend. But again I think he and I both should just consider it lucky we had a good time and leave it at that.
Warrenboy that is all great advice. Thanks! I will give him my unsolicited advice to stay the hell out of the club -- and to be straight with her that he needs to see her outside of the club if they're going to see each other. That addresses a number of potential issues. The need for validation and attention as primary driver for that lifestyle... shit yeah are you ever right on that!
I'm picking up on Papi's vibe, though. For the readers, don't try this at home. I am a trained professional who has suffered pretty badly at the hands of strippers and likes them anyway. You're almost certainly better off with a girl who doesn't have 100 guys trying to hook up with her a week who might be wearing a nicer polyester suit than yours.
Call.Me.Ishmael (I had a friend named "Ishmael" and he played the line everywhere) I get it on both points. I can tell that this has already been a pivot for him, where he is doing stuff he would never be doing (including fucking a ridiculously hot 20-something who was out of his league even more at age 25 than today!) As I said in the OP, these things never end well. I know the basal instinct to want to get out at the top. My fear for him is that it will end hard and fast, and that he won't see it coming until it happens.
> Girls in their early/mid twenties like to party. Strippers like to party. Stippers in their early/mid twenties are definitely going to party > hard (their is no down time)
Yeah I hear that too. My buddy is barely keeping up. BUT you might be surprised that there is down time. Not the kind that I require but he's been doing normal stuff more often. Clearly though, at what it is, it is not a sustainable pace any more than it's a long-term scenario. He just needs an exit strategy. And not just to pivot to another dancer (as I think about it, at the pace he's seeing other interest, that is even worse! He needs an offramp)
@Jim... Your fears are justified. Give the best advice you can. Don't be offended if he ignores it completely. If / when it falls apart, help him exit as gracefully as possible.
Middle aged men can convince themselves of pretty much anything if there's a hot young girl in the equation. I think the strip club industry would cave in on itself if it were any other way.
Strippers are women. If a random what's his name correctly describes the beauty of her soul... she can probably sell him one of the more expensive options. ;)
thanks Papi. Dude is 40s and dancer is 20s. About 20 years apart. But worth noting she's a stripper, yes, but educated, sane, has her shit together, has plans, it interested in intellectual stimulation and does not seem to have any 'habits' that would be adversely affecting her situation.
I don't know he's her boyfriend, but it is not a dancer/customer relationship. He's not paying her at the club. He's not paying her for her time. She's too hot and too together to be to play-for-pay of him picking up the dinner and bar tab.
The story would make more sense if this guy were extraordinarily wealthy and pulling gorgeous girls all his life. But the intro says it has "changed has life. " so it doesn't really make sense and the age difference is huge.
He's not extraordinarily wealthy. As I mentioned above, he's a regular dude. They hit it off intellectually and they've been having fun. He has seen her outside far more than other in the club. The relationship, whatever it is, does not revolve around the club or stripping. It is revolves around the normal shit involved with casual dating (albeit with an woman in her 20s who happens to be hypersexual with a body that is a 10 on an scale, a face that qualifies as "hot" by any comparison, who happens to dress kinda like a stripper even when not stripping, and with professional ambitions unrelated to either the sex industry or my buddy's vocation)
And whether it makes sense or not, it's happening. It's not bullshit, and it is not a ruse. Aside from the abnormal career differences and "how we met" story, it is a pretty normal thing. As stated, she's not an idiot, they have things in common, and they may be truly FWB as they're fucking but they seem to be genuine friends. And my buddy is older than her, but he's not a fucking ogre. He's good looking enough that it is not a distraction -- just not so good looking that other 20 year olds will be throwing him their g-strings.
He's not doing any more than what you'd do in any other casual dating scenario. I know that and that's he not a sugar daddy. I know frankly he's not in a position to be. Nor is he inclined to. He's been my friend for 30 years. I know he's resources and know what he's not willing to do. And while I don't know her well, I can tell if she wanted a sugar daddy she'd have a sugar daddy. And maybe she does. But it's not him.
If she had her shit together and she is as hot as you say she is...sorry but sane girls (study after study have shown) perfer guys up to six years older (stretching to ten), and no more than two years younger.
20 years older, then she's not sane. She's got emotional issues. Not to say that she's completely self-destructive and off her rocker, but something not "sane" about her.
That said if I'm your friend I'd enjoy the ride while it last. Some people occasionally hit the jackpot in Vegas....But easy come easy go.
He shouldn't get too invested cuz this chick is gonna ghost him eventually.
@JimOsterberg. You really can’t know what is going on between any guy and a girl he’s fucking. He might be giving her money or other gifts that you would have no way of being so sure, you might be right but I’d never vouch for anything between a horney guy and where he’s getting it from.
Too many comments to read through, but all I'll say is that him seeing her in the club for VIP fun is a huge red flag...either for this story being bullshit (he thinks its dating but it's not) or it not lasting long. Also, I can't imagine the managers are happy about free VIP visits. The dancer has to play the club money for those trips so either he is paying her to at least cover that or she's pissing off the club and they are gonna fine/fire her.
The quickest way to see if this will end well or if what they have is real is to tell your friend that the next time she ask for anything, I mean anything no matter how small... tell her "No"... and then sit back and see how she responds.
I appreciate the comments relative to direct experience (per my OP). Some good advice -- including don't a whole lot of emotional stock into giving advice. The more I comment on this the more I think I shouldn't get any more involved than I already am.
Also, let me be clear that I am am NOT stating he gets free VIP. What I did say is that I am almost certain he paid the other girl, and that he is not going down there for freebies and I don't know what he is doing behind the scenes (frankly it was a little weird to ask if he way paying her at the club.)
Again, the club part of this is almost incidental. He does not see her often at the club (we're talking a just a few months since the first met, and he's see her at most maybe 3 times at the club plus the time we both went, and he has otherwise seen her dozens of times outside of the club.)
They don't exactly go to the movies or other couples' houses for dinner, but generally it is a like a normal casual dating arrangement. As I wrote
Yeah I get the skepticism. It sounds like bullshit. If he just told me and I didn't see it firsthand, I'd think maybe he's lost it and was bullshitting *me* but I met her and then saw her so then saw her again outside the club. So whatever is going on, it's with her.
This is not some derp who thinks some stripper is his girlfriend because she's nice to him and shakes him down in or outside the club. This is a guy who is pretty fucking smart, and very street smart. He's got his shit together, she's got her shit together, I've got my shit together. We're reasonably sophisticated people as far as stripper and a couple of mongerers go. Let's not waste any more time on that.
And Papi, and others, I get that this could be play-for-pay and I am just not seeing the pay. I just don't think so. I really don't. But that's just me thinking what I think so let's not waste anymore time on that either.
Rickberge -- yeah, I get that. That's not a bad plane no matter what.
Also, to be clear, at this point I have described the situation sufficiently that anyone who works there and reads this site (which I guarantee there is somebody) they could put it together on who this is (I know there is a fuckload of gossip in the club -- but I maybe overestimating this significance of these circumstances.) But either way I am NOT saying there is a guy getting free VIP or girls breaking house rules. I don't know shit about that, but I do know that this dancer is very legit and honest in everything I've seen and I can only imagine she follows the rules.
Some guys know how to handle women and also strippers; many don't - anyone getting involved w/ a stripper needs to be the former else likely he'll regret dating the stripper.
BTW @ppwh -- Antoine de Saint-Exupéry is certainly not a reference lost on me. Reminds me I bought The Little Prince for both of my kids when they were too young, but they're old enough now (well one is). That is de rigueur for proper parenting.
"... let me be clear that I am am NOT stating he gets free VIP ..."
If he's paying her for VIP-time then he's a custy not someone she's dating - a dancer will not call the guy she dates to come do VIP w/ her at the club - I think this guy is confused and kinda giddy about the whole-thing and not really seeing things for what they are, IMO.
Ha ha! Well, it's not. And I am not being defensive. But I think you're just screwing with me now. Thanks all who provided advice. I will post an update if it's good news.
Dude, again in 3 months since meeting her he's done the VIP thing maybe once. What I am saying is if anyone were to read this from the club and the divined who I am talking about, I am not bragging about someone get treatment from a dancer outside of club rules.
Otherwise, yeah obviously. If his interaction with the chick is to go see her in the VIP room, and he calls her his girlfriend, then yeah that guy is a best really missing the point. But 1) I never said that he called her his girlfriend, he never called her anything; and 2) he is seeing her outside the club far more than inside the club.
We went to see her in the club after meeting IRL because that is kinda of an obvious thing to do. (yeah I get that it is also fraught with landmines. That's good advice) but other than that it is interaction outside of the club.
Do I know he's fucking her? I know he texted me a picture of her wearing nothing but his shirt, standing bare-ass at the balcony of his condo the morning after we met. Do I know he isn't paying her? No. But I serious do not believe he is or that she otherwise does OTC or escorting. She actually has some real shit going on, and as corny as this sounds, I don't see her doing anything illegal that would jeopardize that.
And she could be an UTR type but I just don't see that. I am in 80% confident she's just a dancer at a fairly high-end club that is more about pizzazz than mileage and happens to have it is off with somebody she has something in common with. But time will tell.
Again, thanks for the advice who gave. Thanks for the comments. I used to be on here going back to the early 00s with another handle. Used to get into screaming debates. Don't like this format as much as the old threaded discussions. But still good commentary.
Wendy Brown: How Neoliberalism Threatens Democracy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZMMJ9Hqz… I cannot stand this Karen Huckabee Sanders. We should set up an anti-Trump news show, and make Stormy Daniels into out main news reader.
JimO, I didn't know of you, but I'm seeing all of your new threads. With your unprovoked hostility, you've certainly not made a very good impression on me.
The same sorts of social and economic forces which send young women to strip clubs, and have made them ready for UHM, are also those forces which make relationships between men and women more difficult.
Its not even that things get bad, its that when you have feelings for each other. you hurt the ones you love cos you give them the power to hurt you.you become vulnerable and shit that never bothered you does all of a sudden. Shit you do makes you feel so guilty you feel like you cant live with yourself sometimes.
@PhatBoy -- I was fearful of that (hence my earlier comment about the "blast radius" when this implodes). As it turns out, the amicably split with an indefinite "hold" as she is on the other coast. This may have been a slightly different situation than most as on one hand she was European born/raised/educated. Yet on the other hand she was a fcking stripper living a stripper life that sounded as crazy as any of them. He was in that for a while (6 months?) and survived whole with no real scars. But it truly could have gone the other way. I have my own situation going with a similar highs and not yet lows, and not a stripper nor anyone in the biz, but fck yeah I read you loud and clear on every word you wrote in your last post. In the middle of it right now.
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Nightmares are dreams.
I hope things go well for your friend.
Most relationships don’t end well. Relationships with strippers usually end horribly...
That already includes two other dancers being in touch on totally civilian, not SC matters. He is experiencing something I have experienced as well but never capitalized on anywhere close to how has he -- these younger (early/mid 20s) strippers when they have their shit together do not want to deal with their own peer group and would rather spend their down time with someone older (mid 40s in his and my case) who also has their shit together, and obviously someone who has $$. But he is not getting hit up for the sugar daddy thing. Other than paying for dinner, drinks, and basic travel (a night at a B&B etc) he is not paying for anything out of the norm of any other casual dating. Since he's no longer paying for VIP at the club, he's probably about breakeven overall. Plus so far it seems like a pretty decent relationship. Some crazy stories for sure, but mostly mundane girlfriend stuff (just with a ridiculously hot girl who under other circumstances we are both abundantly clear would be entirely out of his league)
Shameful, is what it is. Downright shameful.
Upright, yeah looking for any horror or success stories from firsthand experience. Obviously, everyone's circumstances are different. I am usually a go-to guy for advice on these things, but my otherwise mild-mannered bro has completely trumped me on this. My advice is little more than commonsense, which he already has. Right now he has a realistic view of it. At this moment, it is perfect and just a lot of fun. I do see that inevitably changing: jealously; one of them one wanting to bail before the other does; there must be a hundred reasons why this doesn't work as a normal relationship. So I am curious to hear from anyone who has lived through it himself. Or if there are strippers on here who want to share their perspective, that would be huge and greatly appreciated. Otherwise, I get that this isn't so exciting a topic, other than the inevitability of this blowing up at some point.
I think that for the most part, strippers are strippers because they crave an excessive amount of validation. The better man you are, the more meaningful any sign of validation from you will be. Maybe she will surprise you with unexpected kindness when she senses she can help, even.
If this is true, then the obvious advice is obvious: Enjoy it while you can, but prepare for it to fall apart spectacularly.
Alternatively,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ytH7SLzn…
"Geez, what’s with all the hate? She accepted a gift. Unless the PL attached strings to it before giving it to her, and she cut those strings, I don’t see a problem. “Thanks dude!” is perfectly acceptable and appropriate."
I've commented on here before I met a girl before she was a stripper. The relationship had enough of a strain that we broke off for about five months ( this is a couple of years ago) and during that time some of her friends convinced her to become a stripper since she was broke.
I was surprised when she called me after a five month separation-- I had heard from her once ( text) during the break and it wasn't good.
She spent the better part of two days convincing me that 1) she knew the problems were hers 2) although she was a "dancer" that nothing was going on besides dancing period.
There were good times, great times, but the bad times were very bad. It ended five months ago, this time for good.
If you are on the up and up the big red flag I see in your comments is that they are dating and he is going to the club she works in--on that alone I almost call BS....but.......if you are straight I will tell you it is going to lead to a problem and it is going to be ugly when it happens. I never, repeat never, went into the club she worked. I still don't go there although she is long gone and somewhere on the West Coast ( probably dancing) And just to be clear it had more to do with messing with her head than my becoming jealous. It also had to do with what you are describing is going on with him now--- other dancers taking a run at me--according to her it wasn't an if but a when if I showed up at the club.
What broke us up is simple. She couldn't be honest with me and as the little lies piled up I trusted her less and less. Eventually she did something that I couldn't tolerate and I ended it. Now to be fair we had our problems before she started dancing but the dancing only made those problems worse and there was always some level of drama with her.
Is that a compliment I'm sensing or is it wishful thinking?
This happened to me one time, too. I wish I had read the Little Prince before I met her
“It is the time you have wasted for your rose that makes your rose so important.”
Ok, maybe it was more than one time, I just happened to be thinking about that one time just then.
My advice to him, enjoy the relationship as much as you can an keep it the same as long as you can, it won't last for ever.
Her needs and wants will change, and if he is not be able to adjust, will end.
More than anything don't develop "feelings" for her other than friends with benefits, unless he wants his marriage to end.
Good luck to you and your friend.
Please keep us informed about the relationship.
Although not as civilized I'll point you in the direction of Cat Stevens, now known as Yusuf Islam.......and later redone by Rod Stewart and Sheryl Crow........The first cut is the deepest.
The best thing to do is to speak up if he gets into a bad situation - so he doesn’t get into trouble. He might refuse to listen anyway, but that’s his choice.
Don’t get too close to the dancer. The last thing you want is to lose your friend due to any jealousy over his stripper girlfriend.
I think you said it best - as you are staying clear of the blast zone. Stay far away - as the fallout can clear a very wide area.
Maybe, but from the sound of it, some are seeking.
> The first cut is the deepest.
I heard one time about a stripper who cut a bitch. Devils speak in the way in which she'll manifest. Angels bleed from the tainted touch of my caress.
I now know the depths I reach are limitless. Oh, my beautiful liar, oh my precious whore.
I am so impure.
If she didn't meet him at the club then a "bit-better" chance it's not just b/c of $$$ but strippers hooking up with custies often/usually comes down to $$$ whether she asks directly or "indirectly" (i.e. "emergencie$" start popping up that she asks the guy for help for or at least she brings up her woe$) - this is often the M.O.
Can a dancer and custy have a "legit" relationship, I suppose, i.e. they have to date someone, but given the age difference it's usually about $$$ and her not having the hots for him - but I assume in some instances a dancer might like dating an older guy b/c he can provide her a certain lifestyle (dinners in nice restaurants, trips, staying in nice hotels, etc).
Girls in their early/mid twenties like to party. Strippers like to party. Stippers in their early/mid twenties are definitely going to party hard (their is no down time)
My advice is to tell you're friend to watch his stuff. Never get comfortable. Ya daddy issues exists, but that means dating a few abusive assholes, rampant sex and drugs, then when she's about 29, trying to get off the cock carousel and finding a sucker to marry them. Not going to happen in the early twenties to mid twenties.
I did with him once, and I know he has more than once. She texts him and invites him to come in to see her, but he sees her more outside of the club (especially now, and this is something that going on right about 90 days.) He or I or anyone we know, would almost certainly have never met her if not at the club. Our professional and social paths would not cross, and there is not an insignificant amount geography between where we each live, where the club is located, where she lives (even further) or where her family is (much further)
But based on my one experience, I would say that should not be repeated. This was early into the relationship -- they'd already scene each other outside the club a few times (with overnights) and he had already been back to the club a couple of times since they first met (which was at the club). The way they met was this -- lapdance and then chatting, and more chatting for a long time, and they swapped numbers. She responded first (via txt naturally) and after a lot of texting back and forth they met outside the club.
But here's why I would agree with you 100% that he should *NOT* go into the club. She gave him obvious special treatment and had another dancer do the same. To the point he has a two-on-one LD with everyone's jaw dropping in the club. He looks like a typical "yuppie" (yeah no one says that anymore) not any kind of playa or Russian oligarch. I had special treatment too but nothing like that, and I paid (I don't know to be honest and haven't asked, I know he hasn't paid for a lot but not sure what he paid for that night considering another dancer was involved.)
That was an awesome fantasy scenario for a couple of middle-aged dudes with a lot less swagger than would usually command that. And while I would love to have that every Friday night, I think I should consider it once and done as it was getting a bit weird with girls being catty and I just felt like a hammer would drop.
Plus, she didn't work that night while we were there. Except for the two-on-one there was nothing unusual about our presence. It would be just like a couple of regular seeing their ATF. And as I right this, I am sure he at least paid the friend. But again I think he and I both should just consider it lucky we had a good time and leave it at that.
Warrenboy that is all great advice. Thanks! I will give him my unsolicited advice to stay the hell out of the club -- and to be straight with her that he needs to see her outside of the club if they're going to see each other. That addresses a number of potential issues. The need for validation and attention as primary driver for that lifestyle... shit yeah are you ever right on that!
I have seen it happen. She was a little nerdy and a total sweetheart.
People get jobs because of money. What steers them to being a stripper or working at Enterprise, though? It's not the 1990s anymore.
It's better to have loved and have lost than to have never loved at all.
Your challenge is to make sure she knows she was actually loved even after you have lost.
Yeah I hear that too. My buddy is barely keeping up. BUT you might be surprised that there is down time. Not the kind that I require but he's been doing normal stuff more often. Clearly though, at what it is, it is not a sustainable pace any more than it's a long-term scenario. He just needs an exit strategy. And not just to pivot to another dancer (as I think about it, at the pace he's seeing other interest, that is even worse! He needs an offramp)
Middle aged men can convince themselves of pretty much anything if there's a hot young girl in the equation. I think the strip club industry would cave in on itself if it were any other way.
Thanks!
How old is he? 21?
And is she a bit older than him?
Just trying to get a better understanding of the dynamic at play here.
20 years older, then she's not sane. She's got emotional issues. Not to say that she's completely self-destructive and off her rocker, but something not "sane" about her.
That said if I'm your friend I'd enjoy the ride while it last. Some people occasionally hit the jackpot in Vegas....But easy come easy go.
He shouldn't get too invested cuz this chick is gonna ghost him eventually.
Thank me later (or your friend lol)
Also, let me be clear that I am am NOT stating he gets free VIP. What I did say is that I am almost certain he paid the other girl, and that he is not going down there for freebies and I don't know what he is doing behind the scenes (frankly it was a little weird to ask if he way paying her at the club.)
Again, the club part of this is almost incidental. He does not see her often at the club (we're talking a just a few months since the first met, and he's see her at most maybe 3 times at the club plus the time we both went, and he has otherwise seen her dozens of times outside of the club.)
They don't exactly go to the movies or other couples' houses for dinner, but generally it is a like a normal casual dating arrangement. As I wrote
Yeah I get the skepticism. It sounds like bullshit. If he just told me and I didn't see it firsthand, I'd think maybe he's lost it and was bullshitting *me* but I met her and then saw her so then saw her again outside the club. So whatever is going on, it's with her.
This is not some derp who thinks some stripper is his girlfriend because she's nice to him and shakes him down in or outside the club. This is a guy who is pretty fucking smart, and very street smart. He's got his shit together, she's got her shit together, I've got my shit together. We're reasonably sophisticated people as far as stripper and a couple of mongerers go. Let's not waste any more time on that.
And Papi, and others, I get that this could be play-for-pay and I am just not seeing the pay. I just don't think so. I really don't. But that's just me thinking what I think so let's not waste anymore time on that either.
Also, to be clear, at this point I have described the situation sufficiently that anyone who works there and reads this site (which I guarantee there is somebody) they could put it together on who this is (I know there is a fuckload of gossip in the club -- but I maybe overestimating this significance of these circumstances.) But either way I am NOT saying there is a guy getting free VIP or girls breaking house rules. I don't know shit about that, but I do know that this dancer is very legit and honest in everything I've seen and I can only imagine she follows the rules.
If he's paying her for VIP-time then he's a custy not someone she's dating - a dancer will not call the guy she dates to come do VIP w/ her at the club - I think this guy is confused and kinda giddy about the whole-thing and not really seeing things for what they are, IMO.
Dude, again in 3 months since meeting her he's done the VIP thing maybe once. What I am saying is if anyone were to read this from the club and the divined who I am talking about, I am not bragging about someone get treatment from a dancer outside of club rules.
Otherwise, yeah obviously. If his interaction with the chick is to go see her in the VIP room, and he calls her his girlfriend, then yeah that guy is a best really missing the point. But 1) I never said that he called her his girlfriend, he never called her anything; and 2) he is seeing her outside the club far more than inside the club.
We went to see her in the club after meeting IRL because that is kinda of an obvious thing to do. (yeah I get that it is also fraught with landmines. That's good advice) but other than that it is interaction outside of the club.
Do I know he's fucking her? I know he texted me a picture of her wearing nothing but his shirt, standing bare-ass at the balcony of his condo the morning after we met. Do I know he isn't paying her? No. But I serious do not believe he is or that she otherwise does OTC or escorting. She actually has some real shit going on, and as corny as this sounds, I don't see her doing anything illegal that would jeopardize that.
And she could be an UTR type but I just don't see that. I am in 80% confident she's just a dancer at a fairly high-end club that is more about pizzazz than mileage and happens to have it is off with somebody she has something in common with. But time will tell.
Much of the new stress is just coming from our society's economic philosophy, and from the abject failure of our religion.
SJG
The Costs of Inequality: Joseph Stiglitz, native of Gary Indiana, seeing things get worse each year, starting from 1980.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GYHT4zJs…
Crises of Capitalism, David Harvey
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qOP2V_np…
Wendy Brown: How Neoliberalism Threatens Democracy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZMMJ9Hqz…
I cannot stand this Karen Huckabee Sanders. We should set up an anti-Trump news show, and make Stormy Daniels into out main news reader.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HAIDkG-n…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r_ggvmYV…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DFEoyIGb…
HK Gallery
http://hktijuana.com/assets/img/gallery/…
http://hktijuana.com/assets/img/gallery/…
http://hktijuana.com/assets/img/gallery/…
SJG
Wendy Brown, Neoliberalsim, College Hook Up Culture
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XlLPxNdY…
SJG