Total chump here

Well like they say at AA meetings "Thanks for sharing".

Yep, she was using you. Pretty expensive bj and make out session for all your money spent. She probably thought of it as paying for her time spent with you as something she deserved as if you were ok with time for money with not much out of it. Strippers use guys like this all the time though. She probably has a boyfriend she didn't you about that she is routinely fucking and telling, yeah, I'll see if I can get Roger or whomever to pay for the hotel bill since I need to go there anyway, then give him some lame ass story about it will happen if it happens if he pushes for it. Live and learn. Next time instead of pushing for sex, do like strippers and ask sneaky questions that might generate information. Instead of asking if she has a boyfriend who doesn't want her having intercourse, ask her if her boyfriend minds if she has sex without his permission. That might get her riled up enough to blurt out, she does what she wants to and her boyfriend is none of your business or something. However you just learned she has a boyfriend that she listens to and probably doesn't want her sleeping around. However dancers don't think of bj's as sex. If she's not upset and says she doesn't have a boyfriend, she might be telling the truth.

If she is from the club you reviewed, she sounds like one of the better ones. You could have stepped into a real mess.

I doubt she had a boyfriend. She was on the older side of the girls that dance at this club. Still a good looking MILF type but probably pushing 40. Which is probably why she was hitting me up for money like she was.

At least you weren't such a RIL that you couldn't see the situation clearly. Yeah you spent some cash and didn't get your money's worth but at least she didn't string you along for years like what happens with other PLs.

To be really done with her just block her number. Problem solved. If not she'll keep trying you after a few months to see if she can dangle that carrot (pussy) in front of your eyes for possibly some more money. There's plenty of girls out there who WILL give you your money's worth, fuck that ROB.

Agree with TFP, it could have been a lot worse. Blocking her number would also be prudent. Lesson learned: always make expectations known up front from the jump.

Sorry you're judging yourself so harshly. Life is about living and learning from your mistakes. I overpaid several times for sex with a stripper I had to have. Think back now that if I had just a little bit of patience and could walk away from the situation I would have saved a whole lot of money. But sometimes it's worth the money spent to learn the lesson. You will never fall into that trap ever again so think of it like college or therapy, ya it could be expensive but it's always worth it.

Don't waste time feeling bad, this is how the 'hobby' works. If you were fucking her you would end up spending a lot more, and reach the same conclusion. She's in it for the money, which is okay, when you accept it and feel the same way. When you start fantasizing something else, that's when you get into trouble. Tell the 'next one' you're into fucking and giving them money, and things will go a lot better. Plus you'll end it when you want to. They like making money and having sex. She can't 'do' relationship.

I read your narrative and as I see it, you need to drive it yourself, and be ready to do that. That means having time and money, and also just knowing what you want.

So you meet a girl at the club and things go well. But what do you want beyond that?

Was your intent in going to the club finding a girl you would be seeing regularly? If so, select one with that in mind.

And then politely and without pushing too hard, let her learn that that is your intent and very politely find out how it is for her, who she lives with, locally or other, SO? kids?

Then, these are grown up experienced girls. The main problem they face in life is that though guys give them money and fuck them, very few actually want to know them. So best if you can escalate as rapidly as possible, going to regular over nighters.

So let her know, kind of in stages, that you want to be seeing her outside, that you want to be spending nights with her, that you are going to invite her to spend that night with you.

Then do what can be done ITC, after of course an intense front room makeout session. Make sure she gets your contact info early on. They like business cards, but also giver her your home address and any land line telephone number.

After the OTC encounter try to get her contact info, see if she can walk right out the door with you. If not, after she gets off.

If she won't do that, try to arrange for the next day or the next day. If she won't agree to anything, then ask her when her next shift is, and tell her you will be there when she starts, and then do so. Then again, more talk and makeout session, then ITC max, then try again to get her to agree to an outside meeting, like that night.

Decide if you really want to be talking her on car key wallet dates, or if you just want to be wearing out mattresses with her.

For me, in my future travels, car key wallet dates will be minimized. I'll tell her the truth, "Working hard all day, making love all night."

I'll also be having her do slut wear and lingerie photo modelling sessions on each or our encounters. And the money she gets will be associated with that, likely paid by company check, and in compliance with the federal records keeping laws for making commercial porn.

And so she is no longer your ATF or CF, and she is not your hooker. She is your Mistress. I would not come out and say that, but the money she gets is mistress maintenance.

For myself, I'll giving the girl that kind of message right off. Compliment her on something she is wearing, like her stripper shoes. Tell her that I know that she needs money to buy such things. And then hand her some, like $20.

So the money is not to buy her, it is care and concern money, just a gratuity, a show of respect.

And I always treat women as civilians. So sitting with me she will be getting money, but there is no discussion of what it is for. When, after a steamy makeout session, it comes to talk of the back room, there is no talk about money until it comes from her. They I will say, "Let me take care of you, with money, make sure your bills are paid and that your needs are met."

So in a way I am offering her straight up the same sorts of things you girl was asking you for. Except such offers coming from me, I have more control over it. So generally every time I see her, she will be getting money. But she will also be dressing and painting up for me, and getting load after load pumped into all three of her openings all night long.

Its not free, that will not be my intent. But the money is a show of care and respect, and I am leading it.

And it will have limits. I will politely inquire about all her affairs, rent, car payments, insurance, etc. Maybe I'll be writing checks to pay some of those bills directly myself, so that money going to her is not traceable to her, for her tax reasons. So I will always be asking about her affairs and making sure things are okay.

But how far I go will have limits.

And eventually she will be inducted into the organization I am building. First she will be meeting the people. But if she goes for it, she eventually will be fucking all of our guys in quantity, and for free. At that point she can fuck me for free too. But she will be getting other social, material and financial and long term security benefits.

This is how it will be for me. This goes far beyond anything I have done before.

Most of the guys who use strip clubs are Chumps, Marks, and PLs. But we do here have a few expert womanizers. What say you?

SJG

Led Zeppelin: Live on Danish TV youtube.com

I guess my problem is when I go to the club I know it is fantasy land but I am looking for a real connection with a girl. I get they are dancers and hustling to make money, it is a business after all. But I enjoy being able to blur the line. I have a new girl I really like a lot now. We have exchanged numbers and the past two times we have seen each other she just hops on my lap and hangs with me as long as I am at the club. We go VIP, we cuddle, little nuzzles happen,and we just talk. She is a lot younger then me and I have tipped her around 100 each time and just say I want to take care of you for spending all this time with me. Chick even walked me to my car in 20 degree weather when I left the other night to see me off. Could all just be part of her hustle but she feels really genuine. I like it. But I do have my guard up little to not fall into the same situation I already went through.

Rule of thumb, if a dancer tells you any story, it’s a sure sign she is about to play you, and not in a good way. Can we stop at the store first ? Will you give me a ride ? My mom is sick. My phone died. My car died. My sister just called...............

@LoverBoy - Cheer up, as long as SJG keeps posting, you'll never be the Total chump here

@Loverboy seems like you just need to articulate to yourself what you're paying for.

The only things most capitalist and consumers are willing to pay for are things we can't do for ourselves.

Just ask yourself what you're getting from these females that you can't get yourself or do for yourself.

Remember what you're doing and only keep doing it for as long as it's helpful and not hurting.

@taxi-driver - Goddamn it, I had skipped over it, but you made me go back and read SJG's post and now my brain is mush.

What the hell is a "car key wallet date'?

And who the fuck under the age of 80 still has a land-line anymore?

And Real Dougster wins the thread. I like Real Dougster a whole lot more than old Dougster.

Anyhow, loverboypizza I see you're one of those guys. Kinda like SJG in thinking you can start a real relationship with one of these girls. It's certainly not impossible. I just hope you can read any future relationship like you did the first one. So you can know if you're just being played for money or if the girl actually likes you and not just the money you give her. Good luck buddy.

@LoverBoyPizza - You REALLY need to stop going to the club and start using SA.

@Loverboy "I guess my problem is when I go to the club I know it is fantasy land but I am looking for a real connection with a girl. I get they are dancers and hustling to make money, it is a business after all. But I enjoy being able to blur the line."

Sorry if this sounds more harsh than intended, but if you're looking for a "real connection" in a strip club then you don't get it. You're not going to find a genuine relationship unless the transactional aspect is entirely removed from the equation - i.e. you don't pay for dances or OTC, loan her money, or even go to her club (and a key sign of a dancer thinking of you as anything other than a paycheck is that she will tell you not to pay her for her time/company, and not want you to see her at work).

It's fine to want to have some level of "connection" with a dancer that makes you comfortable with each other and heightens the quality of the experience (which is true for both of you). But don't make the classic PL mistake of believing that familiarity and comfort goes past the time you're paying for.

You alluded to this dancer being older which you somehow think means she's unlikely to have a boyfriend. I beg to differ. Odds are extremely good she has a significant other (boyfriend, husband, and/or baby daddy), one or more kids, and you're probably just one of several customers she has in her contacts to call when she needs financial help for as little effort as possible. She's been doing this long enough to know just how to manipulate you.

Don't beat yourself up too much, it sounds like you didn't spend too much on this gal before you figured out you were being hustled. Many a PL has spent far more to get far less in return, and all too often never quit until they were in a financial jam. The heart and the penis are powerful motivators, and if they're working together your brain can have a hard time staying in control.

Losing her number and/or not revisiting her club are wise suggestions. And before you set foot in another club looking for a "connection," you should be honest with yourself about what you really want vs. what you can really get from clubbing.

Look at it as tuition. You got an education, and you paid for it. Make sure you take the lesson to heart.

Solid lesson. She applied standard plays from the "string him along manual". Best to be straight up front with your expectations after you get the right vibe and if she doesnt deliver end that quick.

Good advice in here.

Just be a man and tell these girls straight up what the deal is. After all you are paying for all this. I don’t play games. I tell them what we gonna do and what I need.

When they realize you not an idiot, you will still pay but then get what you want. Play little mind games by throwing hints will f you up. These girls are pros at f’ing with your head if you act like a puss.

The first several times I met my ATF (All Time Favorite) we didn't have sex. Similar to what you did, "heavy naked petting." Eventually the sex came, she was an older MILF as well (at the time a few years shy of 40). I think she kept holding out so I wouldn't think she "was a total whore" as she liked to put it.

I know it's hard to think about it at the moment, but when you type it all out its blatantly obvious you were being used. Which like you said, it fine, but you need some sex in the mix as well, which wasn't happening.

Who knows her reasoning, maybe she was only having sex with her boyfriend, husband, baby daddy, a big sugar daddy...

I don't think the OP has leaned the lesson yet - per his latter comment:

"... I have a new girl I really like a lot now ... Chick even walked me to my car in 20 degree weather when I left the other night to see me off. Could all just be part of her hustle but she feels really genuine ..."

Could be part of her hustle? No - it is her hustle

Winning.

It’s good that you were able to cut the girl from the summer off. Things weren’t going where you wanted them to go. It took time, but you cut her off. That’s a very difficult thing to do for some clubbers who get the RIL feelings for a dancer.

If you are looking for a solid connection with dancers who you meet in a strip club, it’s going to be a challenge to determine whether the dancer is hustling you - or being sincere. Most guys here will assume it’s part of the hustle. It’s very difficult to not be a skeptic after clubbing for awhile.

I hope you find the connection you want. I don’t mean to be negative - but it’s definitely going to be rare (to find a sincere relationship with a stripper).

man. the learning curve can be expensive. move on sir.

As it's often said around-here; "a strip-club is not a girlfriend supermarket" - not the place to go looking for a GF; 9 times out of 10 you will either be disappointed or ROBed.

Dating a stripper is not the same thing as OTC - dating means you don't pay her, OTC "in the context of TUSCL" means you pay.

So you gotta decide if you want to date her and maybe eventually fuck-her; or pay and fuck-her right-away - and if she met-you as a customer 9 times out of 10 that is what she will see you as, ITC and OTC; no-matter how well she plays-it (i.e. many are very-skilled at the long-con).

If you think you can keep showing up to strip-clubs with the idea of finding a chick that "will like you for you" and fuck you for free b/c "you made a great connection at the club"; 99 times out of 100 it does not work that way.

Most inexperienced SCers don't know what it takes to actually date a stripper, one is better-off if they wanna get laid by one is to learn how P4P works and once one has been exposed to stripperville long-enough, then one "may" be able to know how to date a stripper.

Most of these girls do not like what they do - they do it b/c of the good-$$$ or not having other worthwhile options - thus their sole motivation for dealing with strip-club customers is for $$$; they are not trying to find their next BF except maybe someone that will take care of them/their-bill$.

Strip-clubs are busine$$; not a dating-site - and in business one needs to be direct else one often gets ripped-off - if you want sex from a stripper arrange that upfront b/c "hope" is not a good-strategy when dealing with strippers (as in hoping she'll like and wanna fuck you like you wanna fuck her).

Papi, you got to have a book in the works? At least preparing a manuscript. Fantastic analysis, as always.

I think that WillMunny and Papi covered most of the bases here. Looking for love in a strip club will get you burned 99.99% of the time. Don't beat yourself up over it. Anyone who has been clubbing for a long time has likely fallen into a similar trap at some point in their travels, usually in the earlier days. She used you because she had you pegged and knew that she could, plain and simple.

I hate to rub salt in the wound, but if you were a lot tougher and made it clear that fucking was a condition of OTC, she probably would have fucked you in the good way instead of the bad blue balls way that you experienced. After all, this girl went right to blow job on the first meet ITC. How firm do you think her boundaries really were? Or, in the unlikely even that fucking was really her un-crossable Rubicon, she would have turned you down for OTC. Either way, you would have been better off.

Anyway, lessons learned and you are far from alone in paying tuition for these particular ones.

I don't think you're the biggest PL here, but you've got potential.

I honestly feel like guys who pay girls who make their money providing a fantasy, and then get upset when the girls don’t have real feelings for them, deserve what they get. Either pay for fantasy and enjoy being strung along (which is what you are paying for), or lay out your expectations clearly and accept that your relationship is completely transactional.

Papi offers an excellent insight. It’s important for the OP to read Papi’s post. Then read it again, and let it sink in. It’s not that anyone is stepping on your dreams - it’s just that reality is far different.

I am essentially in agreement with what Bj99 said above. Given my relationship with my ATF, one might reasonably think that I might feel differently, but I wasn’t looking to fall in love, and actively resisted acknowledging it for a long time.

When I worked in energy it surprised me how many things I figured was common sense our customers were ignorant to. Basic energy conservation tips not withstanding. Honestly think most guys outside of strip clubs don't understand the Paradigm of the industry. They're applying their own rational as to why someone would be a dancer (ie needs saving from economic trouble) vs it's an actual real job with real job purpose.

"... They're applying their own rational as to why someone would be a dancer (ie needs saving from economic trouble) vs it's an actual real job with real job purpose ..."

I don't think stripping is like a regular job - IMO most girls, stripper or civvies, are not comfortable being groped particularly by strangers, and why many of them seem to get loaded every time they work so they can do their job - seems w/ stripping most girls gotta check their conscience/dignity at the door - to me stripping is sorta more the equivalent of a drug-dealer, i.e. easy/fast $$$ - girls turn to stripping and dudes turn to selling drugs to get that fast $$$ - not saying it's the same-thing but closer than a mainstream job - stripping and a civilian job actually IMO don't have a lot in common - just my 2-cents.

Taxi, what makes things go with a girl is treating her like you would any other woman. That's why it seems I often get different treatment than many other guys do. Its that and learning to trust you instincts about people. Most of the girls guys post about I would not have any dealing with whatsoever.

Like I said select the girl you want to be waking up with in the mornings. And so of course you have to use your instincts about people.

The thing a girl is most sensitive to is whether or not a guy is being open and honest with her.

Like I said I learned this first hand in my first visit to a strip club where I tried to engage with a girl. At first it was "I don't go out with customers." Then later when she realized that she had misread me it was, "You don't understand, I get hit on by 50 guys a night."

At that time I really was not understanding her meaning. But sure understood it when the next night I came home and pushed the button on my answering machine only to hear her voice.

SJG