Total chump here
LoverBoyPizza
New York
So I feel like just putting this story out there one because why the fuck not as it was an experience. And secondly I figure my stupidity is probably entertainment for smarter strip club goers.
I had a girl bring up OTC fun this past summer. I had first met her on a busy Sunday night before Memorial Day. And spent a good amount on her (probably $600) but didn't get to fuck her, she just blew me. She gave me her number and the first time I texted her you working tonight? she called me immediately. She brought up OTC to which I said I never done before but the excitement got to me and I said I would love to meet her outside the club. We wound up spending a whole weekend together at the Jersey Shore. We drank a little at a couple of spots, saw a movie, and did have some naked fun but no actual sex. I actually was starting to like her so that didn't bother me and made me want her more.
Set up another big date weekend with her in NYC and she was beyond tired from work and travel to get into the city from Jersey. Had more heavy naked fun with her but still no sex. At one point she gave me shit and said I was crowding her when I was cuddling with her. So I got cold and she knew it and got pissy about that. I then flat out said so are we ever going to have sex? She was the one who initially said these OTC private shows with her would be hardcore fun. She responded that it would happen when it happens and don't rush it. That was all I needed to hear. Went on my way the next day and stopped texting/calling her.
Couple of months go by and she calls me out of the blue. She says she has to go to NYC to see her eye doc and how about we meet up that night and get a hotel. At first my dumbass thinks sure. Then she throws down but you will take care of me right since I won't be working? I told her nah, can't do it don't have it right now. She gets all puppy dog sad on the phone and says guess I need to get ready for work then. I say yep OK bye bye.
Again a few weeks go bye. She calls me crying and is super freaked out saying her landlord is gonna kick her to the street since her rent is late. I become all time PL with this one and start to feel bad for her and fall back into sugar daddy mode. I pay her rent and think well now I'm her hero! We just took a huge step forward here. I met her on my own time to make sure she is OK. She even made out with me at the train station so I was like OK this is good. Really it wasn't lol but live and learn.
So I start going back to the club to see her and she says something that stuck with me from that day forward. She was like I don't want to feel like I'm being used here. Like just because you pay me I am now your sex slave or something. And I'm thinking what? Me using you?? You have been using me promising sex in not so many words and then pulling back once the time comes. I didn't say anything about it and just laugh and say I do like you ya know, I don't want to just fuck you. Which was true. I did like her, but I did want to bang the shit out of her.
Anyways skip ahead to the last time we spoke last October. She was going to a convention in one part of NJ and then going to work the same night at the club. She says how about you get me a hotel room so it will be easier for me to get to the club after the convention and I don't have to go all the way home. She follows that up with you can come be with me. I'm like OK....and what am I going to do when I get there? She is like we can go drink and then maybe do some oral. I had it by this point. I said listen are going to fuck or not? She gets all upset and says I don't like how you are talking to me. I already told you how it is...if it happens it happens. I say then lets just end this because it's obvious not everyone is getting what they want out of this relationship. It was a fun summer but it's over now. She gets pissed and says fine if that's what you want and I said yep BYE.......
I had a girl bring up OTC fun this past summer. I had first met her on a busy Sunday night before Memorial Day. And spent a good amount on her (probably $600) but didn't get to fuck her, she just blew me. She gave me her number and the first time I texted her you working tonight? she called me immediately. She brought up OTC to which I said I never done before but the excitement got to me and I said I would love to meet her outside the club. We wound up spending a whole weekend together at the Jersey Shore. We drank a little at a couple of spots, saw a movie, and did have some naked fun but no actual sex. I actually was starting to like her so that didn't bother me and made me want her more.
Set up another big date weekend with her in NYC and she was beyond tired from work and travel to get into the city from Jersey. Had more heavy naked fun with her but still no sex. At one point she gave me shit and said I was crowding her when I was cuddling with her. So I got cold and she knew it and got pissy about that. I then flat out said so are we ever going to have sex? She was the one who initially said these OTC private shows with her would be hardcore fun. She responded that it would happen when it happens and don't rush it. That was all I needed to hear. Went on my way the next day and stopped texting/calling her.
Couple of months go by and she calls me out of the blue. She says she has to go to NYC to see her eye doc and how about we meet up that night and get a hotel. At first my dumbass thinks sure. Then she throws down but you will take care of me right since I won't be working? I told her nah, can't do it don't have it right now. She gets all puppy dog sad on the phone and says guess I need to get ready for work then. I say yep OK bye bye.
Again a few weeks go bye. She calls me crying and is super freaked out saying her landlord is gonna kick her to the street since her rent is late. I become all time PL with this one and start to feel bad for her and fall back into sugar daddy mode. I pay her rent and think well now I'm her hero! We just took a huge step forward here. I met her on my own time to make sure she is OK. She even made out with me at the train station so I was like OK this is good. Really it wasn't lol but live and learn.
So I start going back to the club to see her and she says something that stuck with me from that day forward. She was like I don't want to feel like I'm being used here. Like just because you pay me I am now your sex slave or something. And I'm thinking what? Me using you?? You have been using me promising sex in not so many words and then pulling back once the time comes. I didn't say anything about it and just laugh and say I do like you ya know, I don't want to just fuck you. Which was true. I did like her, but I did want to bang the shit out of her.
Anyways skip ahead to the last time we spoke last October. She was going to a convention in one part of NJ and then going to work the same night at the club. She says how about you get me a hotel room so it will be easier for me to get to the club after the convention and I don't have to go all the way home. She follows that up with you can come be with me. I'm like OK....and what am I going to do when I get there? She is like we can go drink and then maybe do some oral. I had it by this point. I said listen are going to fuck or not? She gets all upset and says I don't like how you are talking to me. I already told you how it is...if it happens it happens. I say then lets just end this because it's obvious not everyone is getting what they want out of this relationship. It was a fun summer but it's over now. She gets pissed and says fine if that's what you want and I said yep BYE.......
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36 comments
To be really done with her just block her number. Problem solved. If not she'll keep trying you after a few months to see if she can dangle that carrot (pussy) in front of your eyes for possibly some more money. There's plenty of girls out there who WILL give you your money's worth, fuck that ROB.
So you meet a girl at the club and things go well. But what do you want beyond that?
Was your intent in going to the club finding a girl you would be seeing regularly? If so, select one with that in mind.
And then politely and without pushing too hard, let her learn that that is your intent and very politely find out how it is for her, who she lives with, locally or other, SO? kids?
Then, these are grown up experienced girls. The main problem they face in life is that though guys give them money and fuck them, very few actually want to know them. So best if you can escalate as rapidly as possible, going to regular over nighters.
So let her know, kind of in stages, that you want to be seeing her outside, that you want to be spending nights with her, that you are going to invite her to spend that night with you.
Then do what can be done ITC, after of course an intense front room makeout session. Make sure she gets your contact info early on. They like business cards, but also giver her your home address and any land line telephone number.
After the OTC encounter try to get her contact info, see if she can walk right out the door with you. If not, after she gets off.
If she won't do that, try to arrange for the next day or the next day. If she won't agree to anything, then ask her when her next shift is, and tell her you will be there when she starts, and then do so. Then again, more talk and makeout session, then ITC max, then try again to get her to agree to an outside meeting, like that night.
Decide if you really want to be talking her on car key wallet dates, or if you just want to be wearing out mattresses with her.
For me, in my future travels, car key wallet dates will be minimized. I'll tell her the truth, "Working hard all day, making love all night."
I'll also be having her do slut wear and lingerie photo modelling sessions on each or our encounters. And the money she gets will be associated with that, likely paid by company check, and in compliance with the federal records keeping laws for making commercial porn.
And so she is no longer your ATF or CF, and she is not your hooker. She is your Mistress. I would not come out and say that, but the money she gets is mistress maintenance.
For myself, I'll giving the girl that kind of message right off. Compliment her on something she is wearing, like her stripper shoes. Tell her that I know that she needs money to buy such things. And then hand her some, like $20.
So the money is not to buy her, it is care and concern money, just a gratuity, a show of respect.
And I always treat women as civilians. So sitting with me she will be getting money, but there is no discussion of what it is for. When, after a steamy makeout session, it comes to talk of the back room, there is no talk about money until it comes from her. They I will say, "Let me take care of you, with money, make sure your bills are paid and that your needs are met."
So in a way I am offering her straight up the same sorts of things you girl was asking you for. Except such offers coming from me, I have more control over it. So generally every time I see her, she will be getting money. But she will also be dressing and painting up for me, and getting load after load pumped into all three of her openings all night long.
Its not free, that will not be my intent. But the money is a show of care and respect, and I am leading it.
And it will have limits. I will politely inquire about all her affairs, rent, car payments, insurance, etc. Maybe I'll be writing checks to pay some of those bills directly myself, so that money going to her is not traceable to her, for her tax reasons. So I will always be asking about her affairs and making sure things are okay.
But how far I go will have limits.
And eventually she will be inducted into the organization I am building. First she will be meeting the people. But if she goes for it, she eventually will be fucking all of our guys in quantity, and for free. At that point she can fuck me for free too. But she will be getting other social, material and financial and long term security benefits.
This is how it will be for me. This goes far beyond anything I have done before.
Most of the guys who use strip clubs are Chumps, Marks, and PLs. But we do here have a few expert womanizers. What say you?
SJG
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The only things most capitalist and consumers are willing to pay for are things we can't do for ourselves.
Just ask yourself what you're getting from these females that you can't get yourself or do for yourself.
Remember what you're doing and only keep doing it for as long as it's helpful and not hurting.
What the hell is a "car key wallet date'?
And who the fuck under the age of 80 still has a land-line anymore?
Anyhow, loverboypizza I see you're one of those guys. Kinda like SJG in thinking you can start a real relationship with one of these girls. It's certainly not impossible. I just hope you can read any future relationship like you did the first one. So you can know if you're just being played for money or if the girl actually likes you and not just the money you give her. Good luck buddy.
Sorry if this sounds more harsh than intended, but if you're looking for a "real connection" in a strip club then you *don't* get it. You're not going to find a genuine relationship unless the transactional aspect is entirely removed from the equation - i.e. you don't pay for dances or OTC, loan her money, or even go to her club (and a key sign of a dancer thinking of you as anything other than a paycheck is that she will tell you not to pay her for her time/company, and not want you to see her at work).
It's fine to want to have some level of "connection" with a dancer that makes you comfortable with each other and heightens the quality of the experience (which is true for both of you). But don't make the classic PL mistake of believing that familiarity and comfort goes past the time you're paying for.
You alluded to this dancer being older which you somehow think means she's unlikely to have a boyfriend. I beg to differ. Odds are extremely good she has a significant other (boyfriend, husband, and/or baby daddy), one or more kids, and you're probably just one of several customers she has in her contacts to call when she needs financial help for as little effort as possible. She's been doing this long enough to know just how to manipulate you.
Don't beat yourself up too much, it sounds like you didn't spend too much on this gal before you figured out you were being hustled. Many a PL has spent far more to get far less in return, and all too often never quit until they were in a financial jam. The heart and the penis are powerful motivators, and if they're working together your brain can have a hard time staying in control.
Losing her number and/or not revisiting her club are wise suggestions. And before you set foot in another club looking for a "connection," you should be honest with yourself about what you really want vs. what you can really get from clubbing.
When they realize you not an idiot, you will still pay but then get what you want. Play little mind games by throwing hints will f you up. These girls are pros at f’ing with your head if you act like a puss.
I know it's hard to think about it at the moment, but when you type it all out its blatantly obvious you were being used. Which like you said, it fine, but you need some sex in the mix as well, which wasn't happening.
Who knows her reasoning, maybe she was only having sex with her boyfriend, husband, baby daddy, a big sugar daddy...
"... I have a new girl I really like a lot now ... Chick even walked me to my car in 20 degree weather when I left the other night to see me off. Could all just be part of her hustle but she feels really genuine ..."
Could be part of her hustle? No - it *is* her hustle
If you are looking for a solid connection with dancers who you meet in a strip club, it’s going to be a challenge to determine whether the dancer is hustling you - or being sincere. Most guys here will assume it’s part of the hustle. It’s very difficult to not be a skeptic after clubbing for awhile.
I hope you find the connection you want. I don’t mean to be negative - but it’s definitely going to be rare (to find a sincere relationship with a stripper).
Dating a stripper is not the same thing as OTC - dating means you don't pay her, OTC "in the context of TUSCL" means you pay.
So you gotta decide if you want to date her and maybe eventually fuck-her; or pay and fuck-her right-away - and if she met-you as a customer 9 times out of 10 that is what she will see you as, ITC and OTC; no-matter how well she plays-it (i.e. many are very-skilled at the long-con).
If you think you can keep showing up to strip-clubs with the idea of finding a chick that "will like you for you" and fuck you for free b/c "you made a great connection at the club"; 99 times out of 100 it does not work that way.
Most inexperienced SCers don't know what it takes to actually date a stripper, one is better-off if they wanna get laid by one is to learn how P4P works and once one has been exposed to stripperville long-enough, then one "may" be able to know how to date a stripper.
Most of these girls do not like what they do - they do it b/c of the good-$$$ or not having other worthwhile options - thus their sole motivation for dealing with strip-club customers is for $$$; they are not trying to find their next BF except maybe someone that will take care of them/their-bill$.
Strip-clubs are busine$$; not a dating-site - and in business one needs to be direct else one often gets ripped-off - if you want sex from a stripper arrange that upfront b/c "hope" is not a good-strategy when dealing with strippers (as in hoping she'll like and wanna fuck you like you wanna fuck her).
I hate to rub salt in the wound, but if you were a lot tougher and made it clear that fucking was a condition of OTC, she probably would have fucked you in the good way instead of the bad blue balls way that you experienced. After all, this girl went right to blow job on the first meet ITC. How firm do you think her boundaries really were? Or, in the unlikely even that fucking was really her un-crossable Rubicon, she would have turned you down for OTC. Either way, you would have been better off.
Anyway, lessons learned and you are far from alone in paying tuition for these particular ones.
I don't think stripping is like a regular job - *IMO* most girls, stripper or civvies, are not comfortable being groped particularly by strangers, and why many of them seem to get loaded every time they work so they can do their job - seems w/ stripping most girls gotta check their conscience/dignity at the door - to me stripping is sorta more the equivalent of a drug-dealer, i.e. easy/fast $$$ - girls turn to stripping and dudes turn to selling drugs to get that fast $$$ - not saying it's the same-thing but closer than a mainstream job - stripping and a civilian job actually IMO don't have a lot in common - just my 2-cents.
Like I said select the girl you want to be waking up with in the mornings. And so of course you have to use your instincts about people.
The thing a girl is most sensitive to is whether or not a guy is being open and honest with her.
Like I said I learned this first hand in my first visit to a strip club where I tried to engage with a girl. At first it was "*I* don't go out with customers." Then later when she realized that she had misread me it was, "You don't understand, I get hit on by 50 guys a night."
At that time I really was not understanding her meaning. But sure understood it when the next night I came home and pushed the button on my answering machine only to hear her voice.
SJG