Can you get too cool with a stripper to ask for OTC?

I had some problems parsing the paragraph, so I'll stick to answering the question posted in the title.

No.

i wouldnt ask. they will suggest it. limit what you spend on her but when you pay, let them see your wad

I say YES you can get too cool with her if it's causing you to spend more money on her than the amount you had budgeted. You might get a few freebies every now and then but if it gets too good, before you know it, you'll be taking her out on shopping dates and spending more than half of your paycheck on her.

The brain goes soft when the cock gets hard. Don’t try to over think things with a soft brain.

It's business - PLs can often think/feel/imagine there's a "connection" but IMO dancers rarely confuse thing$.

She's either willing to go the extra mile for extra pay, or she won't, it won't be b/c you're such a swell guy, IMO.

Do or do not. There is no try. Man up and find the next shiny ball if things dont work out.

If “too nice” means that you’re being polite and mild mannered, and treating her like a princess, then yes...you won’t get past first base toward OTC. Girls at clubs meet the nice, gentlemanly types all the time, but they often come across as lonely and needy, bitching about their wives and other woes. And girls are smart enough to know that the “nice guys” they meet have an agenda. It becomes too obvious to them that they’ll eventually ask for her number. And those are the types who probably ARE the rapists or killers you speak of.

A “non-customer” means that you can create the impression that you’re just there to chill without getting caught up in the sex mirage. And obviously not be like all the other dudes trying to score “extras” and wagging their tongues at the rail. Being “nice” and friendly won’t get you any traction. Having a little edge and a “don’t give a fuck” attitude will. Be the guy who can bust her balls and treat like your bratty sister, with a little bit of James Bond mixed in. Tease...flirt...be fun to hang with, etc. Don’t spend too much alone time with her at the club; otherwise, you’ll be seen as the clingy dude who’s keeping her from making money. Throwing cash at her will just fill her pockets and won’t incline her to just freely spread her legs for you. But a couple of dances WITHOUT attempting to finger bang her may be enough to still make the OTC prospect possible.

Of course, if she’s a hustlin’ whore who’ll suck any dick for a fee, then you’ll probably score some action. If she’s a 9 however, that means you’ll have to put forth more effort. She probably has a couple dozen other guys looking for OTC from her every night. If at any point she ends up being a gold-digger, then just move on and go for another 9.

I'm gonna agree with the succinct advice from Call.Me.Ishmael and Salty.Nutz on this one:
(1) No, you can't get "too cool" with a dancer to ask for OTC
(2) Better yet, don't ask -- let her ask. All 5 of my OTC girls -- and 10 others who've indicated their interest in recent months -- have asked me if I want to meet OTC.

Papi_Chulo often refers to the Bizarro World of strip clubs. One aspect of this is who does the chasing. IRL men tend to chase women, whereas in strip clubs, women tend to chase men, at least when it comes to OTC play.

Butterman, you're putting yourself in the friendzone... and the worst thing about it is, it's all in your mind. No, you can't get "too cool" with a stripper to ask her OTC. Any silly thoughts you have about "it would be such a betrayal of her trust to ask her OTC" is your inner white knight -- and chances are, she doesn't feel that way at all, your inner white knight is just projecting and fucking you over. If you're like many of us, the whole reason to get close to her was to increase the chances of a positive reception for an OTC. Stop sabotaging yourself, man, it's ridiculous

-->"(2) Better yet, don't ask -- let her ask. All 5 of my OTC girls -- and 10 others who've indicated their interest in recent months -- have asked me if I want to meet OTC."

I know a lot of you have the similar stories, but up until I started my new SA line of discussion, I was rarely ever asked for OTC, I always had to ask. Maybe a matter of geography and the type of clubs, or whatever, but following the general rule of "ask for what I want" has been the only way for me. Well, until I found my brilliant SA discussion approach :)

artjazz, respect your POV, but I'll say I disagree with most of it -- and, in fact, am living proof that you can do the opposite of what you advised and still find it plenty easy to get OTC, etc. It sounds like you're reciting from the PUA playbook -- I'm somewhat convinced those guys just make up things to preach to a very desperate audience who will blame themselves if it all fails anyway, so it doesn't matter if it's crap.

Of course it can change, as does between any two people. When my ATF became my ATF, our ITC and OTC relationship changed completely.

you're delusional. you're not asking for a date, you're asking for OTC. for that you need money, and you have to come across as safe. it's impossible for you to be "too cool" in that situation. i've been offered OTC many times by 9s or 10s and in every case I was not even seeking it.

I read artjazzandsoul's contribution after I posted mine and I must say, I don't agree at all. I'm always polite and well-mannered with strippers and they ask me all the time if I want to see them OTC. I realize that the opposite approach -- being a dick, busting their balls, pretending not to care -- also works with a lot of strippers, but it wouldn't work for me -- I can't be other than I am. I don't claim that I could ever get a stripper to see me for free, but I have no problem getting attractive strippers to see me for reasonable amounts of money.

as for artjazz... i agree with subraman, you sound exactly like someone reciting from a PUA handbook, which immediately tells me you have no real knowledge of dancers. trying to use PUA bullshit on civilians is bad enough, trying to use it on strippers is so absurd I can't even laugh, it's just that ridiculous

Well, for those guys who are "nice" because they are too mild mannered to manage anything else, at least until they get burned and move to petulant/whiny, I'd say that there is definitely such a thing as too nice.

For guys who are nice but have a calm and controlled demeanor, I think that some kindness goes a long way. I think that I fall in this category, but who knows. I will say that I don't get rattled by pretty much anything ITC and no girl who I deal with remotely confuses me for a pushover, which is how I like it.

Part of that being nice, but not too nice, is making sure that I limit the amount of time and money I spend on her in any given visit. They know I have more cash in my pocket, but over the course of the first few visits they also learn that I'm only willing to spend so much on clean fun when I have so many "friends" in the area willing to do more. When they ask me where I am going when I get up to leave, I often let them know that I have another thing going on elsewhere (sometimes even when I really don't). They usually don't need a roadmap to figure out what that is. ;)

But again, I do all of this in a very calm and friendly way. Almost inevitably the log jam eventually breaks - it is just a matter of time. It's about making her feel wanted because I keep visiting her and spending $$ on her even though we aren't doing xyz, yet also subtly letting her know that the cash flow would improve if she took the next step. I even tell them that they would be my first choice by a mile if the option was available (whether true or not, lol).

So in a nutshell, being "nice" is fine in a way, but being too nice to nudge the issue a bit can be counter-productive.

I'm with Salty.Nutz: If you really like this girl, it's best to wait for her to ask. If she never does, she would have turned you down anyway.

Waiting for her to ask puts you apart from the 10 guys who ask her every shift. I had a similar experience with an escort. I managed to find her real name on social media and slowly became her friend. The first time we met though, I told her the truth about my stalking her. She was more flattered than annoyed and we're now occasional FWB's.

If I had paid her from the start, it would have been a different relationship.

I’ll answer the original question first - no. You can’t be too cool with an otc stripper to ask.

Remember - she’s a stripper who does otc - so you should ask her soon. I’d suggest asking before you spend more money to have the feeling of a real relationship. She’s doing a convincing job of making you feel “special” - and she hasn’t had to do much grinding or anything other than chatting - to get your money. It’s best to change this quickly!

rockstar posted: "I'm with Salty.Nutz: If you really like this girl, it's best to wait for her to ask. If she never does, she would have turned you down anyway."

That passive aggressive "I'm going to act like I'm too nice to ask for sex even though I'm really just too timid and afraid of rejection" approach is a sure fire way to end up with only the easiest and highest volume OTC strippers.

It's also not accurate to say that she would have turned you down anyway. Maybe the first, second or even third time, put sometimes persistence pays off. The hottest low volume girl next door strippers that I ever took OTC, including my ATF, all came from me pursuing the issue in a manner very similar to what I posted above. It's a soft pursuit to be sure, but a pursuit nonetheless. It only takes one yes, often on a slow night when she really needs the cash, to get the ball rolling.

What's the downside anyway? Let's say the unlikely event occurs that she becomes offended and will no longer take your money ITC. So what? Did you really believe that you were going to form some life long friendship or even more? You are a temporary source of cash for her, nothing more. You might as well leverage the situation while it still exists.

I think there's a little navel contemplating going on around the term "nice guy", since sometimes it connotes "too nice". I think all of us (except the PUA-influenced folks :) agree that the aspect of being a nice guy where she feels respected, appreciated, and, much more importantly, *safe*, is a win. To the extent being a nice guy means being a lovesick sap who is easily manipulated, we all agree is a lose. To the extent that being a nice guy means being her white knight, and/or repressing your desire for sex (which is the whole reason you engaged with her in the first place) in order to protect "the relationship", is pure lose.

The stripper sitting with me will feel respected, appreciated, and safe. She will also never been confused about what I want for my end of the business relationship, it will be front and center and I'll be pressing (in a respectful way :) for her to meet my needs.

-->"rockstar posted: "I'm with Salty.Nutz: If you really like this girl, it's best to wait for her to ask. If she never does, she would have turned you down anyway.""

I agree, and I might word my disagreement more strongly than you did. This isn't a matter of theory: it is not the case that if she doesn't ask, she would have turned you down anyway -- I've asked for the majority of my OTCs.

I do think there could be other factors at play: different levels of stripper openness in different geographies, different types of clubs, attraction to different types of strippers, hell, different types of PLs (maybe some of us give off more or less "ask me for OTC" vibes). But for me, in my city, at what passes for the high end no alcohol clubs here: you can either ask, or be content with almost never doing OTCs, one or the other. If waiting for the stripper to ask has worked for rockstar, Mr Deuce, & others, I totally believe them; I'd just encourage not taking this "wait for her to ask" as blanket advice, for everyone, everywhere.

The other question I have, maybe for MrDeuce: if most of your girls have asked you, how many times did you visit them before they asked? I often ask the 2nd time I see them, and if I want to see them OTC, almost always by the 3rd or 4th time; perhaps you're waiting longer than I am, which is why she's taking the initiative? Or are you getting all these invitations right away?

lol ... sorry, in my response above, I included Rick's quote of rockstar, but not his response, which is what I was agreeing to, so my post is a bit more confusing and incoherent than usual

IMO/IME, most dancers rather not do OTC and would rather handle their biz and make their $$$ ITC - i.e. IMO/IME waiting for her to be the one to pop the question limits one's opportunities which are usually already low to begin with w.r.t. OTC.

IMO/IME being proactive in strio clubs usually gets you more of what you want, o/w one is left to the dancers' own devices and is even more of a crapshoot since many dancers will often choose to do what's best for them which is often as minimal an investment in their part as possible while getting as much $$$ out of it as possible.

Dancers are interested in $$$, they are not interested in mileage, extras, nor OTC - the ones that do it usually do it b/c that is what the custy wants and is willing to pay (extra, motr) for.

I'm sticking with 'no'.

^ motr = more

Don’t be an asshole. Don’t be fake nice. Act normal,,,unless normal is asshole or fake nice. Then try to act like a grown up.

Manipulation is often a big part of the stripper hustle - being a nice guy as if one were courting her for a romantic date often leads to the dancer using that as an excuse to do as little as possible while still getting one's $$$, which IMO is what many prefer.

Not saying the way to go is to be an ahole, just saying that as a *paying* customer what one wants should take precedence in one's mind over what one thinks she thinks of you (e.g. being Mr Chivalrous) - the reality ie most dancers don't think very highly of strip club customers, at best they see most custies as losers that gotta pay women for attention, thus IMO trying to impress a dancer with one's chivalry is often a fool's errand.

I dont get the beating around the bush part (no pun intended)? Its not like you are asking her for an unpaid date for christ sakes. Most of the time she will rather take your $ in the club so why would she change that on her own? You are the one one to take initiative if you want the present situation to change. The best time to establish OTC is after mutual trust is established and you are now at the optimal point.

Oh, your statement about girls "giving" pussy to nice guys is fundamentally flawed. In practice girls give pussy to assholes all the time (mostly because of their projected confidence IMO). Nice guys often finish last because they lack the initiative or assertiveness that women inherintly want. Be assertive but nice, tell her what you are interested in (you dont have to be an asshole about it). Waiting is a losing game...

Again, Papi offers useful insight. Strippers want to manipulate customers to hand over their money with as little effort as possible. If a customer is chatting with a stripper - she’s getting easy money.

I learned long ago - that you must be upfront when telling a girl what you want. If a man isn’t projecting confidence and strength - he’s going to end up spending more to get less. It’s best to avoid being the nice (potentially weak) guy.

As the great David X would say:
Rule # 1: who care what she thinks
Rule # 2: you’re the most important person

Dont ask, shes going to say "she's not a prostitue" if you do. show her how thick your wad is when you pay after you get dances. when you show your wad, it has the same effect as flashing your johnson. the majority of girls will be disgusted, but the smart ones will get the idea.

Good insights in here.

But it may just be me but everytime I hear/see the word "nice guy" I picture some nerd ass dude with his shoulders all slump, talking all soft and shit to the strippers lol...

The stripclub is not an environment for nice guys. I think the correct word is a gentlemen and acting like youve been here before. So no, I personally dont think you can be too cool with a stripper to ask for OTC. I mean whats the worst can happen? She says "no"?... if so, just charge it to the game and find someone else.

The Golden Rule of MY Life: If you don't ask for something you want, the answer is no, so you lose nothing by asking.

I have a friend who would ask for pussy at any social gathering where a half way decent woman was present. He got rejected almost all the time and some of the comebacks were hilarious. But he also got laid more than anyone I’ve ever known.

^ LOL - you gotta give'm an 'A' for effort

I like what Subra and duece are saying. I have always treated them decent and spent money and they get comfortable and then are willing to do OTC. This one seems a little different then my 20 or so OTC girls i've had over the years so I decided to ask for advice. I will say this duece I don't have girls ask me to do OTC. I'm almost always the one who does the asking, you must be the mack daddy,,LOL

Deuce has two penises so he has an edge

It’s not a girlfriend supermarket, but it is a stripper supermarket, so why portray yourself as someone other than you? Look at our boyfriends! What do you imagine that we think a “normal” guy is like anyways, and why would a stripper go for normal? Personally, I go for intruiging. If a guy can spark my interest, he stands out. I do have a customer who friend zoned himself. I don’t do extras, but he really friend zoned himself hard. Ironically, I suspect that he did it on purpose to seem trustworthy and normal.

I've been away from my computer for several hours and am just now checking back in to this discussion of who should ask whom for OTC. Believe me, I'm more surprised than anyone by this development of attractive strippers asking me to see them OTC. Remember, I clubbed regularly for over 20 years before I finally stumbled into my first OTC date in December 2015 -- I didn't even know OTC was a thing!

Here's my best answer to Subraman's question about how long it has taken from the time I meet a dancer until we play OTC. Information included is:
OTC girl # - age and rating - our previous activity - # of dates - time span
#1 - 42YO, 6 - two VIPs - 3 dates - 12/2015 to 4/2016
#2 - 38YO, 8 - three lap dances - 2 dates - 8/2016
#3 - 32YO, 9 - 6 VIPs - 9 dates - 8/2016 to 3/2017
#4 - 26YO, 7 - 7 VIPs - 8 dates - 8/2017 to present
#5 - 26YO, 8 - no ITC - 1 date - 11/2017
#6 - 32YO, 9 - 7 VIPs - 1st date coming up this Wednesday night
#7 - 39YO, 8 - about 80 lap dances over an 18-year period - 1st date soon

It is literally true that OTC girls 1-6 broached the subject with me, usually at the end of our first or second VIP, but my preference is to do several VIPs (e.g. OTC girls 3, 4, and 6) to make sure we can get along for an extended date. (Most of my 23 OTC dates have ranged from 5 hours for an "afternooner" to 16 hours for a "sleepover".) One reason for this caution was my extremely frustrating experience with #2, the subject of my "Virtual shit storm of chaos" article in August 2016.

#1 offered me OTC in a text message after we had done two VIPs because she lost her license and couldn't drive to her club for a while.

#2 offered me OTC, after she had done lap dances for me three times in a non-extras club, simply because she needed some money in a hurry.

The really glaring exception here is #5, whom I saw for an hour in a hotel room before I had ever spent any ITC time with her! We're FB friends and know *about* each other through other girls at her club, so when I messaged her that I wanted to visit her ITC the next night, she counter-proposed a quick getting-acquainted meeting for drinks followed by a BJ in my hotel room. Done!

#7, whom I expect to meet for dinner and some sort of "private party" in my room in the next few weeks, is another exception in the sense that technically I asked her if she would be willing to see me OTC, but only after she mentioned another dancer at her club who seldom worked there any more, concentrating instead on doing "private parties" for favored customers. It was clear to me that she was fishing for an invitation, so I grabbed the opportunity and she immediately assented.

I think of OTC girls 3, 4, and 6 as my typical situation: we do one or two VIPs, she suggests OTC, and *months* later, after half a dozen VIPs, it finally happens. By the time we see each other OTC, we've already spent half a dozen afternoons together ITC, have drunk and probably eaten together, and have talked about all kinds of things, including sexual preferences, so that we are quite comfortable with each other and ready for an OTC date.

My experience may not be typical, but it works for me. I know that assholes often have great success with strippers, but all I can do is treat them with respect and generosity and let things take their course. I do agree with several other posters that in general, in the Bizarro World of strip clubs, the girl should do the asking. My slow approach may cost me opportunities from time to time, but I have no complaints.

ButterMan: I'm really *not* the mack daddy!
Papi_Chulo: It's not that I have two dicks but rather that the one I have is double-long and double-wide!!

^ Oh

BJ99...I have no delusions or desire to have a stripper GF. I act normal to them because well I am normal:) But it has worked for me over the years as far as them feeling comfortable enough to hang out with me outside the club. Kind of like deuce is saying.

Speaking of duece... I think I can remeber maybe 2 strippers asking me if I wanted to meet them OTC but every other ones has made me ask,

Hmm. Maybe they just don’t think you’d be interested.

MrD: when you say 7 VIPs, you mean you did that many VIPs in one trip, or that it was 7 trips, one VIP per trip? I don't think I've ever waited 7 trips to ask a stripper OTC, maybe if I waited it'd be different, I dunno... no worries, I don't mind asking them at all

I mean I visited her club 6-7 times over a period of a few months, doing a VIP with her every time. Like I said: s-l-o-w !

MrDeuce I am amazed and humbled by your extensive database of stripper conquests. You need to start plotting some data that includes things like cost, time w/stripper, orgasm rate, oral and/or pussy skill, craziness factor, needy factor, etc...

MrD, so long as you are happy with what you are getting for your money then it's all good. Now your ITC to OTC spending ratio is a lot higher than mine as I definitely spend a greater % of my entertainment dollars in hotel rooms as opposed to LD/VIP rooms, but to each his own. I also would not want to try to recreate that same type of list for the timeframe you covered and I'm guessing that you could have scored a lot more OTC if you changed tactics, but you don't seem to feel the urge to do so and I suspect that you like to have some type of solid connection before taking that step. All I can say is cool beans.

And who knows, maybe that is the route that the OP will take as well. I can only wonder though if his hesitancy stems more from timidity than any real set of preferences, such as those that you have.

Subraman, this paragraph from my tome summarizes my preferred approach to OTC:

"I think of OTC girls 3, 4, and 6 as my typical situation: we do one or two VIPs, she suggests OTC, and *months* later, after half a dozen VIPs, it finally happens. By the time we see each other OTC, we've already spent half a dozen afternoons together ITC, have drunk and probably eaten together, and have talked about all kinds of things, including sexual preferences, so that we are quite comfortable with each other and ready for an OTC date."

So the stripper proposes OTC (down the road) after only one or two VIPs and I finally see her OTC *months* later, after we've done 6-7 VIPs on different visits to the club! I know it's slow, but it works for me. I've seen girl #3 nine times and girl #4 eight times. I expect it to be similar with #6 and #7, whom I'm seeing OTC this week and next week for the first time.

rickdugan, you are exactly right: I place great value on getting to know a stripper really well ITC before going the OTC route (with a couple of glaring exceptions -- hence the caution!). Yes, I could probably score more OTC if I moved quicker, but I'm in no hurry. I also enjoy the whole "getting acquainted" phase of talking, drinking, and doing VIPs ITC for three to six months (!) before our first OTC. At my favorite club, which is the source of most of my OTC girls, a 30-minute VIP costs $150 plus about a $50 tip, so counting VIPs, drinks, and stage tips, I can easily spend $1500+ on a stripper ITC before we ever see each other OTC.

deuce we have probably seen each other at The Rio before and just don't know it. Although I am more of a Dancers guy. I pretty go about my OTC game the same way you except I'm not much of a VIP guy. I am known to buy 5 dances at a time instead. Now at the Rio I might be willing to check out the VIP since it's a little cheaper than DSC.

Update... well I guess you guys were right she agreed tonight to see me outside the club we haven't discussed details or prices at all I think this is going to be a good one:)

Are you expecting sex? For her "outside the club" may mean you buy her a fancy dinner and maybe even pay her for her time.

Now come on papi I'm a veteran I know better than that will get all that clarified up front before the date even starts and she made some comments that made me think that other things were definitely in play